What a bunch of tools. They think they’re clever but they’re incredibly stupid. Send tea bags to your congressman! Send rock salt to your senator!

You know, the senator who lives in a northern state, which is about to enter the winter season.

Tell you what, I need roofing material. Is there some way I could piss off a bunch of anti-choicers that they could send me a bunch of two-by-fours, plywood, maybe some skylighting? We’d like to go standing seam so if there’s some way to agitate them into sending me high quality green standing seam roofing material, that would be even better.

What is amazing is the ability of the Dems to constantly be Charlie Brown with Lucy pulling away the football.

So not only is there disturbingly violent undertones to this whole idea, but there’s a chance it would be taken as an actual threat and a danger.

Someone, either Amanda or another blogger, pointed out recently that right wingers are very good at using violence, and the threat thereof, to achieve political aims, while left wingers don’t tend to be as good at it. The right wingers usually know when to use terror tactics, and have a good sense of how far to push things. The left wingers, when they finally decide to fight back, can sometimes overdo it, and counterpunch too hard, or too wildly. As left wingers, we should keep these things in mind, both the right wing expertise in using coercion, threats and fear, and our own fairly rudimentary ability to counterpunch or defend.

One possible way around this might be to convince right wingers to get overconfident, and go too far. Especially this could work if the right wingers go too far in the presence of cops or in view of the public. This might be a dangerous tactic, though.

I dunno, Mighty Ponygirl. If you were black and you needed tar for some reason, I could see it, but I think roofing is a bit of a stretch. But hey, good luck.

Mighty Ponygirl, that’s fantastic.

I also quite like the idea of a “send arbitrary objects to randomly chosen politicians” counter-campaign. I’ve got last year’s calendar and a plastic comb here I don’t need.

One possible way around this might be to convince right wingers to get overconfident, and go too far.

They’ve already gone too far.  Remember the murder of Dr. Tiller?  What about all the general harassment around abortion clinics?  They go too far all the time, but then they just pretend that that one person is an outlier and they pretend they don’t support those people.

Hey Ponygirl.

Maybe you could start a right-wing blog called hitponygirlwitha twobyfour.com.  and tell people to send two by fours.  It is worth a try building materials are expensive.

Hmm.  Ya know, last time Snowe got a lot of static for an extremely tepid vote that didn’t amount to anything in the long run, she made a not-so-veiled threat that she would follow Arlen Specter across the aisle if she got any more.  It’s not likely, given how much leverage she has as the one and only Rethuglican senator willing to even pretend to work with the Democrats, but who knows what could happen if the Rethugs started delivering official punishments, as I understand they’ve threatened to do. 

Sixty-one votes would be nice to have, but it would be even nicer to watch as the Rethugs are diminished even further toward that solid-but-impotent hard core.

I was thinking the same thing, Ponygirl.  A buttload of rock salt may be pretty useful in Maine during the next few months.  I live in northern MN.  Who do I have to piss off to get the same thing sent to me?

I also quite like the idea of a “send arbitrary objects to randomly chosen politicians” counter-campaign. I’ve got last year’s calendar and a plastic comb here I don’t need.

lmao… I can chip in an old stuffed animal and an ugly statue of an elephant…

“The cynical me firmly believes that the Democrats who want to stall, water down, or kill health care reform are only too happy to use bipartisanship as a cover, so they can serve their insurance company masters while maintaining the facade that they wanted to do something about spiraling health care costs.”

This.  Why rock the boat trying to actually do something when you can whine about the need for bipartisanship preventing you from doing what you really want to do.

No, what you really want to do is what you’re doing right now.  Getting into office, which gives you a ticket on the gravy train, and all you have to do is what you’re told, but make it seem like you’re trying to do something good.

Run against some weasel from the other party every few years, get lots of campaign funds, make lots of contacts in business and industry — you’re set for life!

And after all, who really cares if Americans get healthcare, or jobs, or stay out of wars, or keep their privacy, or have real democracy, etc…

“the Democrats who want to stall, water down, or kill health care reform are only too happy to use bipartisanship as a cover, so they can serve their insurance company masters while maintaining the facade that they wanted to do something about spiraling health care costs.”

This. A thousand times.

I hope Olympia Snowe’s office writes thank-you letters to anyone dumb enough to send the Maine senator a bag of rock salt as a protest. Imagine the apoplectic rage at your typical right-wing douchebag when he receives a polite missive thanking him for his thoughtful gift of Rock Salt that the Senator’s office can use during the upcoming winter season to de-ice their walkways and guarantee that her supporters can safely visit the office. Better yet, if they send so much, maybe a letter thanking them for the thoughtful gift but due to an outpouring of helpful rock salt (more than the office could use in a season), the extra rocksalt was donated to the local branch of the DMV to help keep Maine roads safe all season.

I get the giggles.

You know when sending cutesy items in the mail is usually done?

When trying to save a cancelled TV show.

We’re talking about trying to provide healthcare to Americans so that 45,000 don’t die annually and that the major cause of bankruptcy is eliminated.  Perhaps we’d even have people moving upwardly, classwise, if they were capable of inheriting something, instead of having all their parents’ money go to support in nursing care.

As for sending “white powder” to Senators…I would LOVE it if the Feds payed each of these idiots a visit and prosecuted the ones too stupid to leave the rock salt in a properly labelled, unopened bag.  It’s not funny.  It’s not a prank.

Go ahead and write your senators.  Tell them they will lose your vote if they don’t act as you wish and REPRESENT you.

But to do stupid bullying shit?  Hell, even most groups trying to save their TV shows have stopped sending items to the network b/c it just ends up causing headaches for the support staff.

Though if anyone actually wants me to send them random childrens’ clothes or toys, I’d be happy to get rid of them.

Under Bush, bipartisanship was not some higher calling that had to be achieved at all costs.

We’ve already forgotten the Bush years?  Under Bush, bipartisanship was indeed a higher calling to be achieved at all costs.  Namely, Democrats were expected to go along with whatever the Chimperor commanded in the name of being bipartisan.  Opposition to Bush & CO was tarred and feathered as being “partisan”.  And all of this was promulgated by the so-called liberal media as in “even the liberal media feels that those Democrats opposing Bush are being partisan and shrill”.

Being “bipartisan” was always the goal of political Calvinball.  It’s just that the rules for being “bipartisan” have changed.  And, FWIW, the sure-fire way for a party to be bipartisan?  Ironically enough—to have excellent party discipline.  You see if the GOP votes in lock-step for position X and a few Democrats also join in position X, while the only people supporting the opposite position Y are Democrats—well then position X gets to be bipartisan while Y is partisan.

*

Anyway, am I the only one worried that we are getting played here?  In order to “compromise” and be bipartisan, the Democratic leadership is pushing bills that are, well, not very good.  What will happen is that the GOP will vote lock-step in unison to oppose whatever health care reform bill emerges (either Snowe will change her mind or she’ll defect to the Dems) and a few Dems. will defect and oppose the bill (even some liberal Dems who simply won’t hold their noses and vote for a steaming pile of a compromise measure).  Meanwhile once the bill goes into effect, insurance companies will jack up their rates (what’s gonna stop them?—people will be mandated to buy health insurance and there will be no viable competition to or regulation of the insurance companies due to such elements being stripped as part of a compromise)—and point to their “study” to blame the health insurance bill for increased costs.

Thus health insurance reform will be a disaster pushed by partisan Democrats in the face of a bipartisan opposition including even the liberal [one liberal who voted against health insurance reform because s/he saw what would happen given a compromise bill].  How will that effect our political landscape and chances for further reforms?

The odd part is, if the Rethugs would get off their self-immolation shtik and help govern it might actually save their sorry asses in 2010.  As it is…  Armageddon III.

Imagine the apoplectic rage at your typical right-wing douchebag when he receives a polite missive thanking him for his thoughtful gift of Rock Salt that the Senator’s office can use during the upcoming winter season to de-ice their walkways and guarantee that her supporters can safely visit the office.

You forget, oh Fabulous Ponybabe, wingnuts are notoriously unable to get irony.  They might just be confused and not understand that they’re being mocked.

They’ve already gone too far.  Remember the murder of Dr. Tiller?  What about all the general harassment around abortion clinics?  They go too far all the time, but then they just pretend that that one person is an outlier and they pretend they don’t support those people.

Catgirl, sorry, I wasn’t clear. I meant “go too far” in the sense of going far enough that the authorities start to consider them dangerous. I did not mean “go too far” in the sense of being immoral, and I agree that they’ve already stepped over that line long ago.

I also don’t mean we shouldn’t defend ourselves from their violence & threats, and publicize their threats & violence as much as possible. I absolutely think we need to do all these things. I just also mean there might be another angle we could use.

...due to an outpouring of helpful rock salt (more than the office could use in a season), the extra rocksalt was donated to the local branch of the DMV to help keep Maine roads safe all season.
I get the giggles.

OR….

Dear Thoughtful constituent;

Thank you ever so much for your kind gift.  However, due a surfeit of rock salt at our office, I sent you kind gift to the local Planned Parenthood Office to keep their sidewalks clear this winter.

Now THAT would be funny.

I got stuck on the Narnia reference.  They are implying that she’s the White Witch—the incarnation of Original Sin in a female body, for those who didn’t read the books.  (And yes, the implications of attraction and sexual desire for a dangerous, evil, powerful woman are all there in the books.)

Man, they really, really, really hate women having power, don’t they?

“Thank you ever so much for your kind gift.  However, due a surfeit of rock salt at our office, I sent you kind gift to the local Planned Parenthood Office to keep their sidewalks clear this winter.”

Hey Edna!  What’s a “sirfeet”?...

Man, they really, really, really hate women having power, don’t they?
Comment #20: snowmentality on 10/14 at 11:16 AM
They just hate women period. And they use other women, as in the Aunts in A Handmaidens Tale, to keep other women in line.

Erickson is a racist bag of shit whose immediate response to Obama’s Nobel Prize was that the award had been given as form of affirmative action.

I have little to no doubt that he would like to see Olympia Snowe disappear.

That said… if he actually sends her a bag of ice-melting rock salt (ie halite or calcim chloride), there is pretty much zero chance that it will be mistaken for anthrax.  Rock salt, unlike table salt, is rather large with the consistency of fine gravel.  It’s literally small rocks of salt, as opposed to grains.

But agreed, this sort of thing is incredibly childish, and pretty par for the course for the wingnuts.

Apparantly Sen. Lindsay Graham is seriously on their shitlist these days as well, in part for for having the audacity to say that President Obama is not a socialist.

The cynical me firmly believes that the Democrats who want to stall, water down, or kill health care reform are only too happy to use bipartisanship as a cover…

You’re not cynical enough, I’d say.  Elected Democrats get a lot of mileage from grandstanding about fixing Republican nonsense, an opportunity they’d lose if they actually, you know, did it.  I suspect this is why Democrats never really seem to accomplish much even when in a position of power, as I suspect it’s why Obama is suddenly waffling on his campaign natter.

It’s actually a great racket, thanks to the two party system; even if Democrats realize they’re being strung along, what are they going to do in response?  Vote Republican?

Anyway, am I the only one worried that we are getting played here?

You’re not the only one who’s worried, but I for one, have not given up hope.  In fact, I’m a little encouraged.

First of all, I don’t think the Repubs have enough subtlety left in them to “play” anyone.  They’re bullies and thugs.  The scream and threaten and try to intimidate people into doing their bidding…and to be blunt, they shot their wad in that regard (at least on this issue) back in August.  They came back from the break, convinced that they’d proven what Real America wanted, that they were the ones in charge now, that Obama had better show some humility (remember some actually saying this?) and start behaving like a good boy.

At which point, Obama hit the reset button on the whole damn month with a single speech. 

Second, as frustrating as it may be to see a Rethuglican get credit for it, progress has been made.  Look at how the window has moved.  Back in August, we were drop-dead convinced that the Public Option was dead.  Now, the debate in the Senate (not the House, where a straight-up, uncompromised Public Option seems to be pretty much a given) is between those who want a robust Public Option and those who want it compromised in some way…with the compromises growing ever smaller and the compromisers growing ever more desperate.

Me, I favor Schumer’s “Opt-Out” compromise.  It’ll work out either of two ways: 1) Every state accepts the plan, just like they did the Stimulus money; or 2) Some states actually turn down the plan, which is political suicide for the governors and state legislators in question, and the plan is accepted a few years later anyway, with the Rethug power structure that much more trashed.

It’s actually a great racket, thanks to the two party system; even if Democrats realize they’re being strung along, what are they going to do in response?

A.  Stop voting, which leads to the election of Republicans.

B.  Vote for 3rd Party candidates who have no shot in hell of victory, which leads to the election of Republicans (eg - the 84,000 Floridians who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000).

I got stuck on the Narnia reference.  They are implying that she’s the White Witch—the incarnation of Original Sin in a female body, for those who didn’t read the books.

They are also implying that rock salt would have melted Jadis, when she was walking around perfectly unharmed - if none too happy - in the returned Narnian spring. 

Literary reference FAIL.

Thank you ever so much for your kind gift.  However, due a surfeit of rock salt at our office, I sent you kind gift to the local Planned Parenthood Office to keep their sidewalks clear this winter.

WOW. We can only hope.

“Sixty-one votes would be nice to have,”

Why?  Those gutless cretins couldn’t do anything with 99.

“Thank you ever so much for your kind gift.  However, due a surfeit of rock salt at our office, I sent you kind gift to the local Planned Parenthood Office to keep their sidewalks clear this winter.”

Hey Edna!  What’s a “sirfeet”?…

“OMG - they’re going to ABORT poor innocent babies with ROCK SALT!!!  Let us drool pornographically in outrage on this image for a few news cycles!!”

Why?  Those gutless cretins couldn’t do anything with 99.

*Shrug*

You can never have too many.

Catgirl, sorry, I wasn’t clear. I meant “go too far” in the sense of going far enough that the authorities start to consider them dangerous.

Actually, the authorities did think they were dangerous.  Remember that DHS report that the made a big fuss about but was later confirmed to be pretty accurate?  The problem is, they act like toddlers so much that we treat them like toddlers and give them a slap on the wrist when they do something wrong.  I don’t think it’s possible for them to ever “go too far”, if they’ve gone this far already.

I am slowly coming to the opinion that these asshats are actually secretly in love with federal LEA and have a deep seated wish to become intimately acquainted with them for a long term relationship.

Also, I’m not trying to argue with your point.  I’m just cynical that they’ll ever be held accountable for their actions.

Opposition to Bush & CO was tarred and feathered as being “partisan”.

This. 

“Bipartisan” means going along with whatever the Republicans want.  “Partisan” is whatever the Republicans don’t want.

It exists in their voting populace as well.  All the whining about “I want my country back!” has to do with the fact that they lost a democratic election (to a BLACK man no less).  It has nothing to do with suspension of habeus corpus or Big Brother wiretapping or anything that has actually happened, since nothing much actually has, except the continuation of Bush Era policies. 

It has to do with the “partisan” election of someone other than “Bipartisan” John McCain.  They lost, and now they want to secede, because that is somehow “patriotic”.

It’s amazing how bipartisanship became a value the second that Democrats won Congress and the Presidency.

Actually Gee Dubya talked _a lot_ about bipartisanship in his campaign:  he had worked with Democrats in Texas, he wanted to change the tone in Washington, that Clinton had been too polarizing, etc.  And, lamentably, people tell pollsters that they truly do care that major laws be “bipartisan”—although I’d bet a substantial sum that almost no one in the general public remembers the legislative machinations for any particular law. 

“Bipartisan” is a phrase that seems to test well; it’s been a value for a long time in American politics.  What changes is how to lay claim to it. 

Democrats want to claim it by pointing to tough compromises and actual Republican support (i.e., Republicans have participated in the process and the final product looks different because of their involvement);

Republicans want to claim it by saying that Democrats had better get with their program because opposing it is treason, robbery, or homocommufascislamism (i.e., Democrats have ratified the process, and the final product would have looked the same without them).

And the media doesn’t understand the difference.

I also quite like the idea of a “send arbitrary objects to randomly chosen politicians” counter-campaign. I’ve got last year’s calendar and a plastic comb here I don’t need.

Comment #5: MissPrism

Archie McPhee for all your political whingnut-mailings-to-your-congress-critter needs.

It’s amazing how bipartisanship became a value the second that Democrats won Congress and the Presidency.

Historically, Congress has been very congenial and self-congratulatory.  Right up until the Republican Revolution of ‘94, you had Congressmen on all sides of the aisle as close friends despite being on the opposite sides of the political spectrum.  And even after the Gingrich takeover, it took eight years for the atmosphere to corrode to the point where you actually had people calling each other liars and assholes on the Capital Floor.  I mean, they dissolved the Congressional baseball league.  Why?  Because even in the most American of sports, the Congressmen couldn’t get along with each other.

There’s a lot of old blood still left on the Democratic side of the aisle that still remembers that.  And there’s a long tradition - particularly in the Senate - of leaving politics at the door and generally being very friendly with one’s fellow club mates.  That’s why you had Dems applauding Senator Stevens after his return from indictment in Alaska.  That’s why David Vitter got such a free pass and why Tom Dascale was supposed to be a lock for HHS.

The complete lack of bipartisanship, the lockstep defiance that we’ve seen over the last fourteen years isn’t normal.  It’s not what politicians who have served for 40 or 50 years are used to.  And the GOP is having to fight tooth and nail to maintain this dissonance, because they’re effectively demanding that their Congressmen cede individual political clout to the national organization.  Asking an ego-driven elected representative to give up his own personal authority is a hard thing.  With the leadership dissolving, the only thing keeping the GOP in the game is the massive amounts of corporate-friendly funding they receive.

Democrats are pushing for bipartisanship not entirely out of idiocy.  Once the Republican Party breaks, the corporations won’t see much point in cutting the RNC fat checks.  What’s the point?  Their bloc votes barely matter.

But if the Democrats have to trade good legislation for a political edge, it isn’t going to be worth it to anyone except Democratic politicians.

Seraph, I think it’s some kind of confused conflation of the White Witch with the Wicked Witch of the West.  You have to melt all witches, I guess?

Ponygirl, Magis, PIATOR et al—you’re killing me.

BTW, there was a whole collective freak-out about the need for bipartisanship in British politics… in the 1730s and 1740s.  They called it the “broad-bottom” approach.

Ponygirl, Magis, PIATOR et al—you’re killing me.

Take 3 Republicans with a grain of salt and call us in the morning.

OH!  HEY!

That would be another good reply letter.

Dear Thoughtful constituent:

Olympia

<i>“That’s why you had Dems applauding Senator Stevens after his return from indictment in Alaska.”<>

Aye, that made me physically ill

Tip O’Neil used to brag about how he could have a drink with his good bud Reagan

Sure, Reagan just threw the people you represent out into the cold, but that’s no reason to be *gasp* un-civil

Bipartisanship is evil

In the Norman Rockwell version of civics that I was taught as a kid, when you shouted “there oughta be a law” and most of your neighbors disagreed, well you could live with that.  Sometimes you loose elections, but its still the “will of the people” that counts
Might not be true, but its plausible enough to be accepted

When it dosent matter how elections turn out – Elect R’s and the R’s run things, Elect D’s and the R’s still run things – then the fiction that the “will of the people” counts becomes impossible to maintain, and it can get awful bloody when things go pear shaped without that fiction

I certainly hope the democrats understand how bad mandating people to buy private insurance really is. If they do that, they will almost certainly lose in 2010. It will also be one of the most aggressive, coercive corporate giveaways that I could ever imagine. Not even the Republicans have ever passed a bill requiring a purchase from a corporation under threat of violating the law.

“They called it the “broad-bottom” approach”

I was drinking Pepsi when I read that, very painfull when it came out my nose

Historically, Congress has been very congenial and self-congratulatory.  Right up until the Republican Revolution of ‘94, you had Congressmen on all sides of the aisle as close friends despite being on the opposite sides of the political spectrum.  And even after the Gingrich takeover, it took eight years for the atmosphere to corrode to the point where you actually had people calling each other liars and assholes on the Capital Floor.  I mean, they dissolved the Congressional baseball league.  Why?  Because even in the most American of sports, the Congressmen couldn’t get along with each other.

That’s a bit oversimplified.

Yes, Congress prior to 1994 tended to be far more congenial for a few decades than it has been since that time, but it’s incorrect to suggest American Congress has always been a chummy body of well-mannered colleagues filled with congeniality for each other.

And as bad as it has gotten, this is far from the worst the animosity has ever been on Capitol Hill. 

Today’s Congresspeople sometimes call each other mean names.  Nobody today is attempting to literally beat their political opponents to death with a cane on the Senate Floor, however…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sumner

DTG,

But Brooks wasnt expelled from Congress, he even got reelected

So you see, Congress has always been filled with congeniality for each other
cant be mean to poor ole Preston now can we? that would be uncivil

Today’s Congresspeople sometimes call each other mean names.  Nobody today is attempting to literally beat their political opponents to death with a cane on the Senate Floor, however…

That was in the run up to the Civil War, though.  When Congressmen start physically taking swings at each other, I’m moving into my underground bunker for the next 30 years.

Go back seventy or eighty years, and the majority of that has been conciliatory.  Shit doesn’t get done in Washington without a degree of consensus.  And Congressmen don’t get reelected unless they get shit done.

”That was in the run up to the Civil War, though.  When Congressmen start physically taking swings at each other, I’m moving into my underground bunker for the next 30 years.”

No, too early

When Congressmen start physically taking swings at each other AND CONGRESS REFUSES TO PUNISH THE OFFENDER is when you need to head for the bunker

I mean, Sumner was the high point of violence in Congress.  This sort of thing happens so rarely that it’s practically a legendary incident.

“Today’s Congresspeople sometimes call each other mean names.  Nobody today is attempting to literally beat their political opponents to death with a cane on the Senate Floor, however…”

True, but it’s interesting that the last time things were extremely acrimonious was when Slavery was still a big deal.  And we know how that turned out…

(The South may have lost in 1865, but they’ve been making up for it ever since.  Plus, the then staunch Southern Democrats have become staunch Southern Republicans.  And the constant background level of racism diminishes so slowly it sometimes seems as if it hasn’t changed at all, even though it actually has changed quite a bit in the last 140-years… but it still has a long way to go…)

I certainly hope the democrats understand how bad mandating people to buy private insurance really is. If they do that, they will almost certainly lose in 2010. It will also be one of the most aggressive, coercive corporate giveaways that I could ever imagine. Not even the Republicans have ever passed a bill requiring a purchase from a corporation under threat of violating the law.

I’d really like to hear a few lawyer’s takes on the constitutionality of a mandate.  It strikes me as a gross violation of freedom.

Archie McPhee for all your political whingnut-mailings-to-your-congress-critter needs.

Send Michelle Bachman a punching nun and watch her blow. a. fucking. fuse.

“They called it the “broad-bottom” approach”

I was drinking Pepsi when I read that, very painfull when it came out my nose

I know, right?  It’s supposed to be a shipbuilding metaphor.  But it had to have been nose-squirtingly funny even then.

Mention Viola Liuzzo, Jonathan Daniels, or dozens of others and you get blank stares.

Back when William F. Buckley Jr. and his National Review were “standing athwart history [i.e., civil rights for black people] yelling ‘Stop,’” Buckley printed a disparaging reference to Liuzzo’s murder. His “argument” was that violence against civil rights workers in the South was expected, and since it was expected, Liuzzo’s murder was “a dog-bites-man story” that should never have been “so heavily emphasized.”

Just to recap: Viola Liuzzo was a housewife from Detroit who left her comfortable home, risked and, in fact, gave up her life for the cause of equality for her fellow citizens. Under what conceivable travesty of logic is that a “dog-bites-man story”?

This is another of a long, long list of reasons why I can’t stand seeing that simpering asshole Buckley referred to as some sort of beloved elder statesman of the Right.

”But it had to have been nose-squirtingly funny even then..”

Don’t know

18th century slang can be odd to modern ears

I once read a letter from the 1760’s explaining the latest fashions and trends in London to a person on the frontier (Albany)

The newest slang was “Admiral of the Narrow” which meant a drunk who pisses under the table in a tavern onto his companions shoes

I remember thinking that it must have happened pretty often for there to be slang for it

I’m sure Senator Snowe, being a good Mainer from a mill town, will thriftily enjoy the bounty of winter deicer and will likely share with friends and family.  Heck, she won’t have to even haul it to her house if it gets delivered gratis!

since it was expected, Liuzzo’s murder was “a dog-bites-man story” that should never have been “so heavily emphasized.”

I find the implication that racist white Southerners are nothing but dogs very interesting.

“Congressmen don’t get reelected unless they get shit done. “

A statement which is anti-empirical, to say the least ... especially for Democratic congressmen.

I find the implication that racist white Southerners are nothing but dogs very interesting.

I find it insulting to dogs.

She looks so lonely in the picture…

Let me get out my tiny violin.

I don’t want Olympia Snowe to switch parties.  I want her to lose office to a progressive Democrat.  Collins too.  We don’t need 61 votes.  We don’t even need 60.  I seem to remember there was this thing called the “nuclear option” where all you needed was 50 votes plus the Vice President to do away with the filibuster entirely.  That seemed to be a pretty powerful argument a few years back; I seem to remember all kinds of legislation got passed under threat of it being activated.

Today’s Congresspeople sometimes call each other mean names.  Nobody today is attempting to literally beat their political opponents to death with a cane on the Senate Floor, however…

Although if it happens now:

i, It will be a Republican male holding the cane, and either a Democrat or a “RINO” (i.e. a Republican who isn’t batshit crazy) on the other end.

ii, Fox News and Rush Limbaugh will praise him for being “manly” and reflecting the mood of the people.

iii, The MSM will hold reports looking at both sides of the controversy over beating liberals to death.

iv, The Obama Administration will condemn it, but indicate they might be willing to compromise on a few bones broken.

v, The wingnut bloggers will excitedly talk it up into a trend, and probably come up with cute little slogans involving Canadian seals.

vi, The liberal bloggers will be mocked as out-of-touch moonbats for pointing out that it is, in fact, illegal to beat people to death - just as it is illegal to torture people or engage in aggressive war.

ii+1/2, If the victim of the beating raised their hands in an attempt to ward off the blows, that will be considered a hostile act justifying the beating, leading to iii…

“ii+1/2, If the victim of the beating raised their hands in an attempt to ward off the blows, that will be considered a hostile act justifying the beating, leading to iii… “

it’ll never happen
if there was any chance of self-defense there would never be an attack

Sumner was attacked from behind while sitting down
one of Brooks friends brandished a pistol to prevent anyone from coming to Sumner’s aid

Brooks tried to follow up his wingnut celebrity by publicly challenging another abolitionist to a duel, when his victim unexpectedly accepted the chalange, the brave southern manly-man hero …… bravely chickened out

I seem to remember there was this thing called the “nuclear option” where all you needed was 50 votes plus the Vice President to do away with the filibuster entirely.  That seemed to be a pretty powerful argument a few years back; I seem to remember all kinds of legislation got passed under threat of it being activated.

You mean under threat of it being created.  The Rethuglicans found the existence of the filibuster inconvenient when they were the ones in power, so they wanted to get rid of it.  They never actually did, though.  Maybe they were satisfied with how well the Dems buckled at the mere threat, maybe what few wiser heads they have among them prevailed.  I bet they’re glad now. 

Don’t wish for the Nuclear Option.  The Repugs will have a majority again someday.

To quote Han Solo, “bring ‘em on, I prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around.”  The filibuster as it stands today is a joke.  One Senator can hold up legislation by asserting it, and never be forced to take the floor and explain why because the rules of the Senate don’t permit it.  Either make the filibuster be what it was intended to be, or let’s get rid of it and let the chips fall.  I want to see the Senate in continuous session 24/7 for a month or more, while a real filibuster goes on.  Let the Republicans be seen to be holding up the nation’s business because they don’t want to give people health care.

The Repugs will have a majority again someday.

Not if they stand for the same things they stand for today.  And if they do, and they get elected, then so be it.  We get the government we deserve.  I’m tired of all this haggling and the catch-22 “60 votes” BS.  We don’t have 60 votes; we would need 75 votes to have 60 votes, the way things are done now.

Amanda was exactly right:

There are no levels of concessions that will satiate their desire to smash and destroy.

There is no honorable compromise here.  End corporate profits in healthcare.  It must be done.  There is no other way to accomplish the goal.

Today, “who reports the violence” is the equivalent of Stalin’s “who counts the votes.”

“Not if they stand for the same things they stand for today.  And if they do, and they get elected, then so be it.  We get the government we deserve.  I’m tired of all this haggling and the catch-22 “60 votes” BS.  We don’t have 60 votes; we would need 75 votes to have 60 votes, the way things are done now.”

A frickin’ men. We’d have real national healthcare in this country, proposed by Harry Truman, if it wasn’t for the filibuster.

Entitlements are pretty easy to defend, so long as enough people feel invested in them. See Social Security. If we get something decent as far as healtcare reform, it’ll become as politically untouchable as Social Security or Medicare are.

There’s no question it’d be a two-edged sword, we’d probably have been stuck with more wingnut judges during the Bush years.

Damn the Dems who participated in that Gang of 14 bullshit. If they’d have said ‘Make my day,” they’d have the power to pass things unimpeded now. Finding 50 decent Democrats ought to be possible, right?

I seriously doubt that Snow or Collins will be unelected over anything really.  Their RINO ambivalence represents their state quite nicely.

Ooh, seeker learned a big word.

I don’t suppose we have any linkies to back up this bald assertion.

  All the whining about “I want my country back!” has to do with the fact that they lost a democratic election (to a BLACK man no less).
I can’t wait for the day when we have a LIBERAL WOC as POTUS.  (A lesbian too would be nice.)

ETA: Miss Pam for President! Seriously, I would love it.

“In for a penny, in for a pound.”

Sen. Snowe is fully committed now to whatever health care bill the Democrats choose to pass. And it certainly sounds as if Sen. Collins will join her in this outcome. Both have made themselves into pariahs in the Republican camp, and if there was any inclination towards forgiveness on the part of the Republican party leadership, well, the radical right idiots have driven a nail in that coffin. Bridges have been burned and there’s no turning back.

Sen. Snowe said that “when history calls, history calls,” and that this issue is a matter of national “urgency.” She cannot unring the bell of her assertions without looking foolish or petulant and petty. She is well and truly bound to whatever the process brings—public option, here we come!!!