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Next entry: Health care in the U.S. - stop bickering and fix it Previous entry: Q of the day - childhood dinner invite

JJ Abrams, a nation (or two) turns its lonely eyes to you

BooksMoviesTelevision

Last night, Marc and I went to see “Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince”, which of course meant spending more than an hour waiting in line in the summer heat to even have a hope of getting decent seats.  Which in turn meant a lot of time for talking, and of course, we talked about the major problem with turning the Harry Potter franchise into movies, when the books are so long and crammed with so much plot and subplot—-the movies give the story the short shrift and often require the audience to have read the books to follow along.  “Half Blood Prince” was no different.  It was certainly a step up from the previous two movies, and director David Yates does a great job of capturing how JK Rowling raised the stakes as the main characters aged into teenagers.  Genuinely scary shit happens, and Yates also goes full throttle in showing the British landscape during the school months as cold and dreary and foreboding as it is. Just as in the books, the Voldemort that seemed childish scary in the first books now moves into Darth Vader-level scary, but unlike in the Star Wars series, our glimpses into his past show that Tom Riddle was always a sociopath.  We also get a few hints—-though as with everything else, not enough—-of the anti-Muggle racism that pervades wizard society that is hard to shake, though good wizards know it has to go, especially after the first Voldemort reign of terror. 

Before the movie, we talked about how much more fun the Harry Potter franchise would be as a TV show, because that means that each season could be dedicated to a book and use anywhere from 12 hours to 17 hours to tell the story of each book.  And some subplots could get their own episodes, like the various love affairs.  This would have the benefit of resolving that storyline while isolating it from the darker happenings, and avoiding groaningly awful situations, such as the end where Hermione and Harry talk about the war and Dumbledore’s death, and then a little about why you shouldn’t snog Ron’s sister in front of her.  No one talks like that, but with a running time slightly over two and a half hours, it’s clear that they were just cramming stuff in.

And, inevitably, leaving out some of the best stuff to advance the plot.  On a TV show, you can have entire episodes that only minimally advance the main plot, but fill in the necessary color and resolve subplots.  There’s so many things that are half-explored that could, on a TV show, get an entire episode or two all to themselves.  Imagine an hour-long episode dedicated to the memory retrievals about Voldemort, another one that’s light about the love affairs of Hogwarts, a mid-season break episode about how Katie touches the cursed necklace that was intended to kill Dumbledore, a twinkly sweeps episode about how Harry finally (after spending one-two scenes per episode of trying) gets Slugworth to spill his secrets by getting him drunk, and of course, a two hour season finale where Harry and Dumbledore go to get the Horcrux in the necklace and then battle the Death Eaters at Hogwarts.  Hour one could end with the dramatic poison-swallowing scene, and then they pick up in hour two with the daring escape, only to find Hogwarts besieged by Death Eaters when they return.  Season six of “Harry Potter: The Series” could end with Snape cursing Dumbledore, and Dumbledore’s body flying off the tower.  In a movie, they have to do it so quickly it loses its impact, but on TV, it could be spectacular.  You could also get audience members who haven’t read the book so involved in the characters—-and you could have time to construct red herrings, etc.—-that you could actually get them to an emotional point where Dumbledore’s death is a surprise.  As it is, in the movie, it’s neither surprising nor impacting.  Believe me; I’m a blubbering baby at movies.  I cried like 4 separate times during “Up”.  But I wasn’t even tempted when Dumbledore died.

This idea is so good that no one should allow the existence of the movies to thwart it.  Imagine if they did up “Harry Potter” like they did “Lost” (to steal Marc’s example).  Hell, you could probably get JJ Abrams to direct.  With a budget like “Lost”, you could do some amazing shit with “Harry Potter”, especially since you don’t need to shoot on location in Hawaii.  Do the same thing that they did in the movies: cast a bunch of unknown kids in the main roles, but populate the supporting roles with beloved character actors.  Can you imagine Anthony Stewart Head as Snape, for instance?  Ricky Gervais could come on for season six to play Slugworth.  These are just the first actors to come to mind—-I’m eager to hear your suggestions in comments.  Since you’d follow the books’ format and have one season per book per year of school, the kids would age in real time over seven years. I have very little doubt that they’d get a return on the investment, since Harry Potter fans are fanatical, and because it’s on TV, they’d be able to pull in a lot of people who are curious about the story, but don’t want to put the effort into reading the books or watching the movies.  But flipping on the TV?  They were going to do that anyway.

The problem with turning novels into movies instead of TV shows has always been this one, unless they’re plot-and-character void novels like anything Michael Crichton has written.  Movies, even those that run nearly 3 hours long, are more like short stories than novels, and TV shows, with the space for digression and intricate plots twists, are more like novels.  But in a perverse irony, movies and TV shows have the reverse prestige of short stories and novels, and so the temptation is to take higher prestige novels and turn them into movies.  I have no doubt that this was the logic of turning “Harry Potter” into movies instead of TV shows.  TV seemed too cheap for the series, especially back when they were first selling the story to Hollywood.  But in the years since, prestige TV projects like “The Wire” and yes, even “Lost” have changed the equation considerably.  A lot of TV shows are hands-down better than a lot of movies now, especially since the taboo against having intricate plot lines that make it hard to enter the story halfway in have been lifted.  Though you probably wouldn’t have that problem with “Harry Potter”, which makes it even more appealing as a TV series.  Viewers could enter at any time they’d like, and grasp the basic idea that Voldemort was bad and he’s coming back, which would be enough of a hook to get them to stay and piece together the rest.

I’ll forgive you, Hollywood, if you think that it should be a few years before it’s tasteful to reboot “Harry Potter” as a TV series.  Get people’s hunger for the stories and characters up again.  But you should still do it, and do it right—-budget, actors, seven year run, good writing staff and directors, the whole nine yards.  Because these movies are leaving people unsatisfied.  In the meantime, I will say that seeing “Half Blood Prince” has given me the enthusiasm to reread the last book of the series again.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 09:54 AM • (75) Comments

One thing to keep in mind is that the first book, maybe the first few, being much shorter and having fewer subplots than the later ones, made it easier to adapt them to movies.  And as the last ones weren’t written when the movies started coming out, it might have made it harder to prdict that movies weren’t going to be the best format for getting them on screens. 

I do agree that a tv show would be great.

Comment #1: rowmyboat  on  07/19  at  11:25 AM

Keep in mind that even now the returns and budgets of TV vs film is huge.  $3m per episode for a TV drama series is still a lot and even with the name Potter attached you might get $100m for 22 hours for TV versus $120m for 2-3 hours of film.  And while BSG has shown you can do great effects on a budget most times you end up looking like Merlin (with Anthony Head as Pendragon currently on NBC!).  That said only TV can really place the importance of the seasons changing that the books showed.

Comment #2: Robert  on  07/19  at  11:35 AM

I love this idea.

Comment #3: allison  on  07/19  at  11:35 AM

I totally agree. Excellent idea.

Evidence of the power of TV to bring a novel to life is that, far and away, the best adaptation of “Pride and Prejudice” is the BBC/A&E;version made for television with Colin Firth and Jennifer Ehle. It is the closest to the book and they had enough time to cover all major parts of the book. The dialogue itself is mostly written by Jane Austen with a masterfully transparent job of making it into a screen play by Andrew Davies. Just amazing.

Compare it to the other film versions and they seem weak tea comparatively. And the supposedly masterful version with Greer Garson and Laurence Olivier is just atrocious. It’s not even the same book and is made into a pouffe of a trifle with nothing of substance in it.

This seems like the perfect vehicle for HBO or some other channel that will do it up right. BBC perhaps, to keep it in-country? BBC/HBO co-production to bring the budget?

Plane

Comment #4: PlaneCrazy  on  07/19  at  11:48 AM

I’ve had this idea, as well, but there is a downside that I believe is best reflected by Legend of the Seeker, loosely based on Wizards First Rule by Terry Goodkind.

First, it’s an unfortunate choice because while the first couple books were actually pretty good, the series as a whole is awful, though that’s not Sam Raimi’s fault.  What is his fault is the number of changes were made in order to (presumably) favorably affect pacing.

A Harry Potter TV series would be immune to most of that tampering, but the writers would have to break each book into a particular number of cleanly divisible chapters.  That means we’d see things added, things subtracted and some things happening out of order.

Maybe I overstate the problems we’d see.  Should this idea be implemented, I hope I am, but TV executives have demonstrated that they’re generally not to be trusted.  My brain protests, “then let HBO or Showtime make it!” but I have to rebut that HBO probably wouldn’t be interested and it might be too ambitious for Showtime.

Actually, you could cut some of the issues out of this by giving the property to Cartoon Network (Warner Bros. already owns CN and HP, so that’ll be easier to do) or Nickelodeon (after Avatar: The Last Airbender, I’m certain they’re up to the task) and making it a high-end animated series.  A solid voice cast would arguably be stronger and the childrens’ ages wouldn’t matter as much.

Comment #5: nekouken  on  07/19  at  11:56 AM

Making another live-action Harry Potter property anytime soon would be as gratuitous as any other Hollywood remake. We don’t need another visual interpretation of Hogwarts with the current one so fresh in our minds, nor does anybody want to see somebody other than Daniel Radcliffe portraying Harry Potter. And while I suppose you *could* get JJ Abrams to direct, I can’t imagine why you’d want to.

The only exception I can think of is the Terminator TV show, which was actually pretty decent. But other than the iconic robots, which were reproduced nearly identically in the show, Terminator doesn’t have a lot of distinct visual elements, so the show didn’t need to completely wipe the slate. Even John Connor, famous a character as he is, isn’t tied to one actor in the way Harry Potter is, (certainly Christian Bale’s over-the-top performance in Salvation didn’t help to create a definitive Connor) so recasting him was no big deal.

Comment #6: Triplanetary  on  07/19  at  12:22 PM

Wait…you spent an hour waiting for tickets?  Ever heard of Fandango?

Or was it just waiting for an hour after buying tix waiting to be let in for seats?

We never buy tix in line.  Pretty much, we go to Muvico and spend twice as much so that we have giant reserved seats and can take beer and pizza into the show.  It’s a date…we could go to a nice restaurant instead for the same $, but it’s been years since movies were cheap entertainment.

We rank movies—only a few select get Muvico treatment.  The kids’ movies are always normal matinees.  A few we go to at the show, but most we just Redbox—$1/night and you can’t really go wrong—or Netflix.

Comment #7: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  07/19  at  12:24 PM

Robert, that’s definitely a point to consider when deciding which to make, movie series or TV series . . . but if one has already been made, and cashed in on, that difference becomes less of a factor because TV becomes a new, untapped market as opposed to the fact that there are movies already made.

I vote yeah, give it a few years and then make it.  Extend the fanbase again—-this is how fandoms are sustained in the long term, with multiple new and promoted offerings that reach a new group of people who, through age or apathy or preference for other media, missed or disdained it the first time around.

I dismissed the Potter books, when they first came out in my middle teens, as a children’s book, and didn’t touch it until I saw a movie poster with Alan Rickman as Severus Snape; I watched the first movie for that and picked up the first five books based on my liking of the movie—-and was so entranced by the books that I read them straight through, in about 36 hours without pausing to sleep.  Cue me buying all the books and seeing all the movies.

Transformers, I was too young to have seen the first TV cartoons, disdained the first movie due to the godawful trailer (“oh, look, a shadow of something we can’t SEE, how interesting”/“a movie about children’s toys, yeah, THIS is gonna be in-depth and complex and plausible”/“oh, wow, an advertisement for Michael Bay as director—-who is Michael Bay, and why do they expect that putting his name up in place of actually telling me about the movie will draw my interest?”); I got into that because someone I know wrote a fanfic and I was bored enough to read it, and found enough material in the movie (the first one, plzkthx) to inspire the fandom which is where most of the good stuff comes, and for that, I buy the toys and comics. 

Star Wars, I saw the movie (ANH) but didn’t understand it until I read the book, which had the setting/history information and subplots, which turned me into a fan of the universe, which resulted in me buying up large quantities of magazines, comics, and Explanded Universe books.

Back to the point: if they wait a few years, a decade, and come out with a TV series or webcast (whatever the preferred viewing media is in a few years), they will reach all the kids of today and tomorrow who are a bit too young/fetal/embryonic/preconcieved at present to be aware of Harry Potter right now.  And it will reach people who watch TV but don’t read or go see movies much.  And all the already-in-existence fans will be able to see it from a new perspective.  And perhaps then there will be another video/computer game, a better one this time, and perhaps a MMORPG set in the wizarding world, and so forth and so on until we have talking spaceships and flying cars and Harry Potter is the planets number-one-bestselling holodeck program.

Comment #8: Kyra  on  07/19  at  12:35 PM

Caren, it’s not the tickets but lining up to actually get into the theatre.  If you’re going to see a sold-out movie, and you show up after the theatre’s mostly filled up, you have trouble finding open seats together or in optimal viewing places.  Last time I went to an opening-night blockbuster, there was a line a couple hours beforehand because people who already had tickets just wanted to beat the rest of the people with tickets to the best seats.

The custom of leaving one seat open between you and complete strangers when you sit in a theatre tends to cut down on the availability of multiple seats together when you come in late with a partner or a group.

Comment #9: Kyra  on  07/19  at  12:39 PM

This post has made me miss BSG just a little more than usual.

Spot-on about the impact of Dumbledore’s death.  I cried for the rest of novel over that one, but at that point in the movie I was just waiting for them to get it over with.  Leaving out the funeral for the wand-lighting was necessary but also OH-SO-CRASS, as my mind kept insisting that someone was about to shout “Freebird!” or something.  Is there a UK equivalent?

I agree with the comment above, a TV series just can’t pull in the budget-per-hour like a movie can… but maybe an old-fashioned miniseries?  A six hour thing per book?  That way they wouldn’t have to tamper so much, and it would feel special, so people wouldn’t miss it.  (As opposed to a weekly thing, where you figure that if you miss it, it’s always on on Thursday at 9.)  Also, if it’s just the length of a miniseries, Books 1 and 2 will look better as they won’t be stretched at much.  Book One is only something like 80,000 words, and I dread that in a TV show it would just get ridiculous and mutated into something.  I don’t want any dementors showing up in book 1 as “smoke monsters” because JJ Abrams needs to fill in an hour.

Comment #10: birdonabeam  on  07/19  at  12:48 PM

Robert has it: Movies are the cash cow, the amount of revenue made per hour of produced content is so much greater than TV.  The entertainment companies cannot be shaken from this point of view.  They are also addicted to the spectacle and thousands of free publicity moments movies generate.

Which is why you will never see a man-hours of work per dollars per completed time of footage cost accounting comparison between TV and movies.

I think there is a possibility of a third way, maybe the creation of a 2-6 hours of miniseries, essentially the first season or half-season, which is broadcast or pushed to a theater.  Then the rest of the season or series via DVD.  Does anyone know how much Battlestar Galactica has made in post-broadcast?  Did the recent Star Wars: Clone Wars movie really get the fan attention?

Which brings to an inherent problem in the structure - most episodic series start weak or shaky.  The Clone Wars movie was made of the worst story in the entire production.  All of the Star Trek series started weak.  BG, Lost, may be the exceptions to the rule.

Comment #11: idiosynchronic  on  07/19  at  12:51 PM

I serriously doubt anyone (broadcast net, HBO/Showtime, cable, production co) would consider spending $$$ to obtain rights (if they could even get them) to produce a live-action Harry Potter TV series or mini-series.  There’s no upside, as pretty much anyone who has a bit of interest in Harry Potter already has a half dozen films they can see on DVD, OnDemand, books, etc.  The market is completely saturated.

I could see something new perhaps in 15 years, but the TV market will be radically different.

Comment #12: CParis  on  07/19  at  12:58 PM

I’m still amazed at the mis-casting of Narcissa Malfoy (Draco’s mom) in the movie.

Draco greatly resembled his father. His mother was blonde too; tall and slim, she would have been nice-looking if she hadn’t been wearing a look that suggested there was a nasty smell under her nose.

-Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

How they could have cast anyone but this woman in that role baffles and depresses me.

Really, I wouldn’t mind another crack at the series just to make up for the trail of cat sick that was the 2nd movie. So many awesome scenes cut to make room for more flying car and Ron rubberface. Wretched.

Comment #13: Mighty Ponygirl  on  07/19  at  01:29 PM

I do not think Harry Potter will age all that well, so waiting years and doing a proper miniseries probably isn’t going to be profitable.  However, I think my opinion is suspect because I never liked HP as much as many people my age do.

Also, prestige projects usually aren’t that profitable in the short term, like viewer ratings.  I can think of several HBO projects that were a real attempt at something good, but The Wire was one of only a few that lasted, because it was so cheap.  In Japan, most of the very best and challenging anime series, such as GitS SAC, only had middling to poor ratings.  HP on tv as a mass media phenomenon would probably be horrific—much as PlanetES got mangled by the anime version.

Comment #14: shah8  on  07/19  at  01:48 PM

In other words, consider what The Dresden Files were like, compared to Jim Butcher’s books.

Comment #15: shah8  on  07/19  at  01:50 PM

I couldn’t agree with you more. My husband and I went to see it Friday afternoon and spent the rest of the evening discussing how we missed the other professors and classes, etc.

Comment #16: aftercancer  on  07/19  at  01:59 PM

But Robert, that’s why I said do “Harry Potter” on a “Lost” budget, not on a “BSG”.  It doesn’t need to be over the top.  Right now the characters and stories are getting the short shrift, and that’s the most important part.

Comment #17: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/19  at  02:16 PM

The other problem with Robert and others nay-saying the idea because movies make more is this: The movies have already been made.  I’m not saying reboot history, which is impossible.  I said, quite specifically, wait a few years and reboot it as a TV series, bringing in new fans and yes, younger fans who missed out the first time.  Hollywood does this all the time.  There is only money to be made on top of the money already made with the cash cow movies.  And an opportunity to do it right.  These stories are too beloved to be allowed to wither into a confusing, unsatisfying movie franchise.

Comment #18: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/19  at  02:25 PM

My books aren’t with me ( left them in my parents house when I moved) so i cant check, but isn’t this the book with all the back-story into Voldemort’s parentage? That was a fantastic part of the story, and I was soooo upset all of it got cut out. I mean, they added a whole scene that wasn’t in the book, and cut out all the good stuff, and the wand lighting for Dumbeldore thing wasn’t the way to do it.

I think it would make a great cartoon series ( I’ll never consider myself too old to watch cartoons) a la Avatar as Nekouken mentioned.

Comment #19: Laureli  on  07/19  at  02:28 PM

“Movies, ... are more like short stories than novels…”

Interesting that short stories often make very good movies, such as “Stand By Me” a really good movie made from a Stephen King short story.

It would be great if a lot of book were made into TV series: it is the perfect medium for filming a book.

Comment #20: Kwillow  on  07/19  at  02:37 PM

> But Robert, that’s why I said do “Harry Potter” on a “Lost” budget, not on a “BSG”.

Lost has had its own budget problems (as have all shows during the recession.) The now infamous scene of the sub emerging in the last season looked like a cut-scene from a 80’s video game. And Lost benefits from having the ability to improvise within a rough framework, cutting actors that didn’t work or got fed up with being Hawaii all year, and promoting people like Michael Emerson who prove to be more popular. Then again, J.K. Rowling would have benefitted from understanding that Dolores Umbridge is a far more terrifying figure than Voldermort.

Comment #21: onegin  on  07/19  at  02:45 PM

I think it’s interesting that the stupider, more poorly written, and more shoddily edited the books got, the better the movies started to be. Prince in particular has a very decent story underneath all the audience-mocking, and I like the tendency of the movies to tighten up the plots and trim the stupid. I don’t think there’s a lot you could do to save the last book, but I expect it to at least be enjoyable in a way the book couldn’t be, if only because movies give you pretty scenery.

Comment #22: junk science  on  07/19  at  02:53 PM

Ahhh, the pleasures of living in a small town: we went yesterday, walked right up to the box office, got our tickets and went into the theater.  Of course, it was a 1340 matinee, which may have made a difference.

My review is here, and yes, it does contain a few spoilers.

Narcissa Malfoy wasn’t nearly as badly cast as was Horace Slughorn! 

I sort of like the TV series notion, as being more able to capture the spirit and concepts in the books, but even there, I’m not sure how well it would work.  THere are some things that are just meant to be read, and the Harry Potter series sems to me to be one of them.

Comment #23: Dana  on  07/19  at  03:25 PM

My god, this makes me feel like a bad fangirl, because my favorite thing about the movies is that I feel like Rowling carries on way too long about characters going to tea and talking to paintings, and the movies have to cut out the fluff that a more aggressive editor would have gotten under control. Half-Blood Prince is the first movie where I’ve felt like they didn’t have time to get as much plot as they needed to. I also wonder if, Lord of the Rings-like, there might be space for an epic DVD release that fills in the missing bits.

Comment #24: purpleshoes  on  07/19  at  03:34 PM

Yeah, part of this is just that she wrote them as novels for a reason.

Agreed on the need for the last book to have an edit.  But, yeah, I’m part of the curmudgeonly set that thought the Harry Potter books were lovely children’s and young adults’ entertainment.

Comment #25: Punditus Maximus  on  07/19  at  03:38 PM

Amanda says: I said, quite specifically, wait a few years and reboot it as a TV series, bringing in new fans and yes, younger fans who missed out the first time.  Hollywood does this all the time.

Hollywood reboots old TV series, video games, current movie franchises into films for theatrical release.  The model for financially successful TV programming is constantly changing and in less than 5 years the broadcast nets will probably be airing nothing but cheap reality shows, L&O;, and infomercials 24/7. The niche cablenets won’t have the budget for much original programming (much less a mini-series or limited run Harry Potter that will cost megabucks to “do right”), we’ve already seen cablers like History Channel, TLC, Discovery move to more cheap reality shows versus scripted or doc style programming.

Viewers have been moving away from watching content on the TV box and are watching via iTunes, Hulu, illegal downloads, etc. causing huge revenue instability. I doubt the producers could get ABC to approve a big-budget show like “Lost” today, especially as ratings have declined.

Harry Potter anime, perhaps?  Or some kind of mulit-country production to spread the costs?

Comment #26: CParis  on  07/19  at  03:38 PM

a running time slightly over two and a half hours

How the fuck did you manage to sit still that long?

Comment #27: PhysioProf  on  07/19  at  03:40 PM

wait a few years and reboot it as a TV series, bringing in new fans and yes, younger fans who missed out the first time.  Hollywood does this all the time.

I can think of _MASH_ and _Fame_, but I’m blanking on recent examples of this movement from movie to TV series.  (I’m probably just revealing my age…)

Comment #28: FlipYrWhig  on  07/19  at  03:43 PM

PhysioProf, the best thing about book to movie releases is you know when the boring parts are for a bathroom break.

Comment #29: purpleshoes  on  07/19  at  03:44 PM

Punditus Maximus wrote:

But, yeah, I’m part of the curmudgeonly set that thought the Harry Potter books were lovely children’s and young adults’ entertainment.

Well, I’m 56, and I like them!

It’s kind of like sushi.  I was never going to eat raw fish, until Mrs Pico bribed me; it only took one bite and I was hooked.  Heck, there was no way I was going to waste my time on children’s books, until she asked me to just try reading one, ‘cause it couldn’t possibly hurt.

Comment #30: Dana  on  07/19  at  03:55 PM

@FlipYrWhig

A couple more recent off the top of my head - Buffy the Vampire Slayer, The Sarah Connor Chronicles (Terminator), Stargate SG-1 & Atlantis.

The issues with any reboot is who owns movie/TV story rights; and cost/revenue share between TV production co and airing network.  Broadcast nets are more likely to buy and continue to air shows that their parent company is producing.

Comment #31: CParis  on  07/19  at  03:57 PM

Doh, can’t believe I forgot Buffy in particular!  Thx.

Comment #32: FlipYrWhig  on  07/19  at  03:59 PM

watching via iTunes, Hulu, illegal downloads, etc. causing huge revenue instability.

Do you have any numbers to back that up?  My understanding was that TV networks got more per viewer from Hulu and iTunes than they do from broadcast.  And given that people can buy a subscription to a whole season of TV on iTunes in advance—and networks can do deals with multiple web channels to get guaranteed revenues in advance—it seems like that would mean more stability, at least for certain types of TV.  There are so many more streams of revenue available now, and most are far more guaranteed than selling ad time next month based on what the following month’s Nielson figures might be.

My feeling is (in 5-10 years or whatever, if not now) you could release a pilot of the TV series, then get enough in guaranteed subscriptions to bankroll doing the rest of the season.  Then actually make your profits on the DVDs after the series is completed.

Gigantic serials *can* be much easier to find the funding, distribution and popular support for than self-contained works.  There’s a time-honored business model there which is not incompatible with making good art—just ask Charles Dickens.  I think it will be a lot easier to do big budget TV series in the future than it is now—for a recognized brand that people would be willing to commit to in advance…

What’s really going to suffer is high production cost original drama series, where the “get the fanboys to put down money ahead of time” strategy won’t work as well.  Good for the Harry Potters and Fireflys of the world, bad for the Six Feet Unders, Sopranos etc.

Comment #33: liminalist  on  07/19  at  04:05 PM

It’s uneconomic to produce a TV series of Potter.

Here is my spoilerish review of the movie:

This is not quite the breathless gothic fantasy that Azkaban was. It’s more menacing, more grown-up, even. Much of the tweeness of the early flicks has evaporated. But though this is an episode on which the whole story pivots, not a lot happens. Much like the novel.

The flick begins with Harry being propositioned by a drop-dead stunning waitress in a Surbiton café. This brief brush with sex and the mundane world sets the tone. Much of the movie is about the main characters pairing up, with the result that you can’t help noticing how beautiful all the actors have grown. Yes, Emma Watson is catwalk-friendly and easy on the eye, but possibly none of the cast is more striking than Tom Felton as the tortured wannabe murderer Draco Malfoy. As Harry, Hermione and Ron play dating games Malfoy stalks Hogwarts alone. He’s a lanky Jackal in black drainpipes, scoping out the angles from the top towers, steeling himself to make that critical head shot.

Most of Rowling’s bloated plotting is stripped away. Indeed, one addition is made to leaven the tedium, in which the fabulous Helena Bonham Carter tears things up at the Weasley residence for no apparent reason than the fun of the hunt. The rest of the plot is boiled down to the search for the answer to a puzzle, trying to tease critical information out of the genial but vain Professor Slughorn. The Prof is played by Jim Broadbent who cannot resist giving one of his succulent Dickensian turns. It’s always a joy to see him. In the background we are left to wonder about the loyalties of Snape. Alan Rickman, who has made the role a masterclass in control, gives little away.

As mentioned earlier, not a lot happens and it takes a long time to pass. However, it’s not entirely unenjoyable. The romances are gently handled and are sufficiently chaste that the cast never get beyond a bit of mouth-to-mouth. The students are more flip, more awkwardly teenagery than before.

Gambon damn near steals the show, as do the actors playing the young Voldemort, who bring a dash of Omen Damian-like quality to the flashbacks. The climax is a taut little standoff, neither too long nor too short. There is a death. And we are all set up for a fight to the finish.

So what we have is a deep breath before the end. Not bad by any means, but one wonders whether the teens are really bothered with this, or whether it’s only us middle-aged types who are still interested.

Comment #34: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood  on  07/19  at  04:10 PM

Clueless and 10 Things I Hate About You were movie-to-TV moves. So were about a billion Saturday morning cartoons but most.. ehh.. yeah. Although I don’t see why they couldn’t be done well in the right hands as animation, I would worry the emphasis would turn to making it hip and cool - Potter was/is kind of dorky.

I missed so much with the movies. Yes at times the books dragged, but things like the Fleur/Bill story being cut out just made me grumpy.

Comment #35: Tenya  on  07/19  at  04:23 PM

What PlaneCrazy said.  I love that version of “Pride and Prejudice”.

My only complaint is that it is too short.

Comment #36: AlanD  on  07/19  at  04:44 PM

liminalist says: My understanding was that TV networks got more per viewer from Hulu and iTunes than they do from broadcast.  And given that people can buy a subscription to a whole season of TV on iTunes in advance—and networks can do deals with multiple web channels to get guaranteed revenues in advance

I don’t know who actually gets the Hulu or iTunes revenue, if it’s the broadcast net or the production company.  Hulu is ad-supported, and I’m sure like any ad supported media, if they don’t deliver the contracted numbers, they’re subject to make-goods from the advertiser.

Your total subscription model could be interesting, probably depends alot on who the target audience is and whether they have an expectation of getting programming for free (ad-supported, illegal downloads) or feel it’s a big-enough event to pay for.

A recent experience with an alternate launch of a “big” production (relatively speaking) would be BSG’s prequel “Caprica” which leveraged off the end of the TV show and launched via DVD earlier this summer - the TV series is scheduled to begin airing on Syfy in the fall, I think.  But not a “Lost” type budget, I’m sure.

Comment #37: CParis  on  07/19  at  04:45 PM

I’m with Junk Science on this one:  the more the books have become bloated, out of control, poorly edited self-indulgent crap, the better the movies have become.  That’s because all the subplots that lead nowhere, the inconsistent characterization, and the stuff that is plain irrelevant or annoying has been stripped away to make a 2 hour film.  I am very much NOT looking forward to the Deathly Hallows movies for precisely this reason; they seem to be treating every single word of an overlong, poorly edited, and frequently self-contradicting book as precious and not to be touched.  I predict the result will be two lousy movies that will make much less money than they should.

As for Harry Potter’s staying power…if you’d asked me after the fourth or fifth book, I would have said that we’re seeing a new Tolkien, the emergence of a classic series that will be read and enjoyed years from now.  After the last two books (especially Deathly Hallows), I predict that Harry Potter is going to be remembered as a decent series that turned into an exercise in marketing and hype.  The world building was far better than the characters or the plot (has there *ever* been a less reflective, more passive, less morally challenged hero than Harry?), and that is not the way one writes a classic.

Comment #38: Ellid  on  07/19  at  05:21 PM

A couple more recent off the top of my head - Buffy the Vampire Slayer, The Sarah Connor Chronicles (Terminator), Stargate SG-1 & Atlantis.

Clone Wars (the original 2 animated series, not the craptastic movie and CGI series).  The revival of Star Trek on TV in 1987 arguably wouldn’t have happened if the movies hadn’t been successful proving there was still a (younger) audience.

Comment #39: KeithM  on  07/19  at  05:40 PM

I can think of a dozen novels just off the top of my head that I’d love to see turned into a TV miniseries. Most of Haruki Murakami’s longer novels (e.g., Kafka on the Shore, The Wind-Up Bird Chronicles) would make for utterly amazing series. Margaret Atwood’s Alias Grace would be great as a miniseries, too.

And I hope to god that nobody tries to put Jordan’s Wheel of Time onto the big screen, as it’d be an unmitigated disaster. The major problem with making it into a miniseries is that it’d take 20 years to air.

Comment #40: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  07/19  at  06:08 PM

The world building was far better than the characters or the plot (has there *ever* been a less reflective, more passive, less morally challenged hero than Harry?), and that is not the way one writes a classic.

I don’t think constantly namechecking your cute little candy stores and tea shops and closing off the arcs of giant spiders from six books ago constitutes worldbuilding, which is a bizarre goal to strive for in the first place. Rowling does have a decent storytelling instinct, and she used to know how to pace her plots, or had an editor with a much firmer hand, and I think that’s what she should get credit for.

And Harry really does suck to a shocking degree.

Comment #41: junk science  on  07/19  at  06:50 PM

Junk science, I hear that the British editions with the grown-up covers at least do have the kind of tough editing that Rowling needs to get her meandering world-exploration under control. I keep meaning to try them, because in my opinion the first book - the one that was rewritten ad nauseam and shows it - had some downright snappy pacing. There’s also a gross translation problem where British slang that was quite clever in the international edition was replaced with literal American English meanings in the U.S. children’s releases, and it completely destroys some bits of cleverness that at least keeps the meandering tea shop talk from getting so smothering.

Comment #42: purpleshoes  on  07/19  at  07:13 PM

You know what I think would be an awesome series?  The Song of Fire and Ice.  Each episode could have a different production crew, following each sub-book as it goes along, and a season could be the whole book.  It’d be like Law and Order: Criminal Intent that way; you have shows with the same title and share some resources and writers, but different directors and actors giving the stories real panache.

Anyhow, I don’t read the Harry Potter books until the movie is released, which means I need to read the next one… And yes, I’ve been reading the British versions with the adult covers, they’re a bit more clear.

Comment #43: Crissa  on  07/19  at  07:31 PM

And I hope to god that nobody tries to put Jordan’s Wheel of Time onto the big screen, as it’d be an unmitigated disaster. The major problem with making it into a miniseries is that it’d take 20 years to air.

HBO has optioned A Song of Ice and Fire and I’d have guessed the first book alone would be a five-season arc. On the other hand, if it takes 20 years to get to book five then maybe, just maybe, Martin will have finished it by then.

Comment #44: Sarcastro  on  07/19  at  07:39 PM

Wow. Synchronicity!

Comment #45: Sarcastro  on  07/19  at  07:40 PM

Crissa?

HBO is doing that, did you know?

Comment #46: shah8  on  07/19  at  07:53 PM

oh, damn, really late…

Comment #47: shah8  on  07/19  at  07:54 PM

And guess who’s playing Tyrion?  Motherf**king PETER DINKLAGE!!

Comment #48: Dr. Locrian  on  07/19  at  07:55 PM

I always wanted Anthony Stewart Head for Remus Lupin.
Recently saw a Midsommer Murders with an actor who looked and sounded rather like a younger Rickman .  It would be kind of nice to have an age-correct Snape.

Comment #49: Samantha Vimes  on  07/19  at  08:03 PM

Excellent idea!

For casting, I suggest bringing back the entire case of “I Claudius”—Derek Jacobi as Voldemort; Sian Philips (Livia) as McGonagle; Patrick Stewart (Sejanus) as Snape; and of course, John Hurt (Caligula) as Voldemort.

A great series could be based on “Cloud Atlas” a phenomenal book by David Mitchell—structured perfectly to fit that format.

Comment #50: Upper West  on  07/19  at  09:57 PM

Ellid wrote:

The world building was far better than the characters or the plot (has there *ever* been a less reflective, more passive, less morally challenged hero than Harry?), and that is not the way one writes a classic.

I find this description strange.  To call Harry “passive” is to ignore the fact that Mrs Rowling wrote him as constantly wanting to Do Something about whatever problem was facing him, and it was usually the people around him, primarily Hermione, advising restraint.

As for “less reflective” and “less morally challenged,” he was written as a teenaged boy, not exactly the archetype of reflection and moral agonizing. 

The books are escapist fantasy, and great storytelling.  To be wondering where the great message is, to be looking for the underlying theme, is to miss the point.

Comment #51: Dana  on  07/19  at  10:05 PM

I had the same thought, about using a miniseries to do an adaptation Right, when I first heard about Preacher being (poorly) adapted, which reminded me of this Sandman script. It’s amazing how something can draw so much on the source material for character designs and dialogue, but end up a completely different and inferior story. (I’m not the only person who’s been thusly disappointed.)

So, yeah. Adapting any serial work, especially one with a lot of fantasy or SF world-building, requires either a great deal of time or an unkind knife.

CParis: Harry Potter anime, perhaps?

Sold! Animation has a relatively constant cost, even if things which would be crazy-expensive in live-action are happening. I wonder how much crossover there would be with the Fullmetal Alchemist fandom, as both involve a world with functional magic.

Comment #52: grendelkhan  on  07/19  at  10:23 PM

I wonder how much crossover there would be with the Fullmetal Alchemist fandom, as both involve a world with functional magic.

Been done (obviously), but the best one I’ve seen was a comic strip where Harry and Elric both find the Philosopher’s Stone at the same time…and the resulting fistfight involves things “Oo, someone has mother issues, doesn’t he, Oedipus?”

Comment #53: KeithM  on  07/19  at  11:10 PM

Great idea!  More and more, I find TV shows much more satisfying than movies.  For instance, The Sarah Connor Chronicles is (or was, sob) a model for how to take a film series that’s become pure stupid meathead action and turn it into something with impressive character development and a layered and interesting plot. And, you know, actual female characters.

Count me in the Harry Kinda Sucks As A Hero camp.  He was definitely passive—sometimes he would insist on doing certain things (usually unwisely), but for the most part, he seemed to have no real opinions about anything.  Hermione was a much more dynamic and interesting character, one who actually worked hard to get the skills she had, whereas Harry was just born with his talents.

Comment #54: thedrymock  on  07/20  at  12:35 AM

And guess who’s playing Tyrion?  Motherf**king PETER DINKLAGE!!

That’s like 31 flavors of hot damn.

Sean Bean is rumored to be in as Ned Stark. He’s gonna get typecast as the dude who croaks it in the first book if he’s not careful.

Comment #55: Sarcastro  on  07/20  at  12:53 AM

I still think it’s hilarious that the latest series of books declared to be the Work Of Satan by the fundies turned out to be a thinly-veiled christian allegory.

Comment #56: Sour Kraut  on  07/20  at  01:35 AM

thedrymock, that’s why I hate with a passion Kung-Fu Panda.  Same sorta I’m special blandness.

Comment #57: shah8  on  07/20  at  03:33 AM

I have been telling people this same thing lately, a TV series would be a good way to go.  Also, I feel that another fitting (and inevitable) format would be manga comics.  Sorcery, boarding schools, repressed teen love/lust, dozens of intricate sideplots?  It’ll happen.

Comment #58: Jake  on  07/20  at  03:34 AM

I think the most obvious flaw pointed out in this post is that you don’t have assigned seating on your tickets.

And Kyra, I would say that quite a lot of people know the name Michael Bay, and know exactly what they get from a movie directed by Michael Bay. Certainly enough to highlight his name in a trailer.

Comment #59: AndersH  on  07/20  at  07:47 AM

Sour Kraut: I still think it’s hilarious that the latest series of books declared to be the Work Of Satan by the fundies turned out to be a thinly-veiled christian allegory.

Back up, there. Willing self-sacrifice does not, in and of itself, a Christian allegory make. Care to explain a bit more?

Comment #60: grendelkhan  on  07/20  at  08:52 AM

There may be a bigger problem with “HPTV”—shows with a significant/intense following, e.g. “Lost”, in part sustain fan interest with mystery…  getting people hooked on figuring out what minor plot details mean, what could be foreshadowing, etc. etc. 

Since “HPTV” would follow the plot of an astonishingly well-known set of books, there would be NO mystery among the most loyal/interested fans.  In effect, the show would be a world of radical predestination, and the viewers would largely be folks who know what is going to happen.

I do not believe that would be a recipe for ratings success.

Comment #61: Dirty Davey  on  07/20  at  10:54 AM

Yes, you read my mind!  When I was reading the books I could always imagine it better as a seven-season TV show than a series of movies.  The books even feel episodic, with minor adventures and subplots leading up to a big climax at the end.  Imagine trying to squeeze all of “Buffy” season three into 120 minutes!  I enjoy the Harry Potter films, but they do suffer from how much plot and character/relationship stuff they have to rush through, simplify, or abandon entirely.

That said, I will go against the mainstream and tell J. J. Abrams to stay the hell away from it.

Comment #62: NicoleG  on  07/20  at  10:55 AM

I can see that.

But…I’m addicted to Alan Rickman. *shameface* No one else in that role would be quite as…er…satisfying. And yes, I *am* old enough to justify that. lol wink

That buzzing? *hides Hitachi Magic Wand behind back* uh…nothing! Nothing at all! XD

Comment #63: Creepy Doll  on  07/20  at  11:04 AM

most times you end up looking like Merlin (with Anthony Head as Pendragon currently on NBC!).

Hey, I’m hooked on those series. It’s a bit cheesy and the plot and characters’ background make my teeth grit (medieval literature bookworm here!), but it’s fun and the first time I’ve been able to watch a half-decent medieval fantasy TV show. Plus, I can’t stop drooling at Arthur’s character… quite a bit bland, but yummy anyway smile=
Now, since I’m watching it on spanish TV, I guess I’m a few seasons behind.. anyone knows whether Morgana is finally going to fall to the dark side that suits her better, or will she keep being an obnoxious “I-told-you-so” brat?

Comment #64: elgie  on  07/20  at  11:52 AM

I’m just here to hit the “Like” button. This is a great idea, not only for Harry Potter but for all kinds of adaptations.  It wasn’t true 30 years ago, but nowadays television has access to big budget directors, actors, and special effects, so other than the “special occasion” sense of getting out of the house, there’s very little the theater can deliver that television can’t.

Comment #65: Cris  on  07/20  at  12:43 PM

The only way this would work properly is as anime, since kids would age out of their roles much more quickly than the show would progress.

Comment #66: helen w. h.  on  07/20  at  01:51 PM

In other words, consider what The Dresden Files were like, compared to Jim Butcher’s books.

The Harry of the first book is a misogynist wanker, too comically 30s-detective for me to buy into.  The series, however, was awesome.

Comment #67: stogoe  on  07/20  at  02:22 PM

Patrick Stewart (Sejanus) as Snape

No!!! 

As Dumbledore, maybe, but one problem with the movie series has been that the parent’s generation was cast with actors all far too old for their roles.  Alan Rickman (aged 63) is world class, so I’m fine with it for the movies, but if we’re going to propose that they do it all over again couldn’t they try to get the ages right?  Snape, Sirius Black, Remus Lupin and all of that generation should be in their mid-30s at the beginning of the series.  No older than forty, at any rate.  David Thewlis was the only one cast who was almost age appropriate for his role. 

This casting also puts us in the odd position of having to assume that Thewlis, 46, Gary Oldman, 51, and Alan Rickman, 63, all attended school at the same time. 

This bugs me because it happens with male actors all the time, and almost never with women.  Men are cast as dads long after they are really grandpa age, while women are often cast as mothers to actors less than ten years younger than themselves (I’m looking at you and Winona Ryder, JJ Abrams).

Comment #68: Eileen  on  07/20  at  04:18 PM

Eileen says: This bugs me because it happens with male actors all the time, and almost never with women.  Men are cast as dads long after they are really grandpa age, while women are often cast as mothers to actors less than ten years younger than themselves (I’m looking at you and Winona Ryder, JJ Abrams).

I didn’t have as much of a problem with Winona Ryder playing Spock’s mother, because she was clearly wearing lots of aging makeup.  I do have a problem when they cast a 60yo man who looks like a 60 year old (balding, paunchy, wrinkly) as the spouse of a 30yo and father of toddlers!

Comment #69: CParis  on  07/20  at  04:39 PM

I don’t know, JJ Abrams would maybe work since Harry Potter is a source material he’d have to stick with, but given his history of TV shows I wouldn’t put him in charge of a project with such potential to be incredible.  His earlier shows, Felicity and Alias, were hits from the start, but both fizzled pretty quickly—two seasons and he ran out of steam on them.  Lost started off slowly, dragged on too long before it really got going.  Fringe straight-up sucks.  As for his films, MI3 was like a long, drawn-out episode of Alias.  Star Trek is really his stand-out project, and I’m sure the veritable loaded gun of a 60-year fandom watching his every move had something to do with it. 

Besides, the “Keep it British” idea earlier up in the thread has such charm to it.  The BBC did wonders with Pride & Prejudice as a mini; let them have HP… far in the future.  Let the shine of these films wear down a bit!  They’re still going strong, after all, no need to overwrite one epic translation of the books with another!

Comment #70: Katrina  on  07/20  at  04:46 PM

Fringe actually isn’t so bad when it’s the long arc episodes.  The abyss is their standalone Monster of the Week fare.

stogoe, I’m amazed you liked the series as much as you have.  I am not a big fan of Jim Butcher’s repressed christianity in the novels either, but the books do get better as you go along.

Comment #71: shah8  on  07/20  at  08:34 PM

i’m late to the party as usual, but i just have to say: if HBO could take the books TRUE BLOOD is based on (which are sort of awful) and make them into a show i just devour every sunday night, i’m pretty sure they could work magic with harry potter. even if HBO won’t do it, i have increased faith in the special effects departments of network tv shows, even the ones that aren’t as popular as LOST (SUPERNATURAL for instance, has really spectacular special effects, even though no one watches it because it’s competing with the NBC thursday night lineup).

here’s the trick: hire the writers from buffy, the effects guys from x-files and get jj abrams to direct an episode here and there, and you should be golden.

Comment #72: akzidenzgrotesk  on  07/21  at  02:14 PM

actually, i take that back about abrams. great director, but i’m not sure he’s capable of being reigned in. maybe the directors/producers of torchwood? they did a pretty good job of keeping a balance between light and funny and dark and dire.

Comment #73: akzidenzgrotesk  on  07/21  at  02:46 PM

FYI, Sean Bean confirmed to play Ned Stark. Mark Addy as Robert Baratheon, Kit Harrington (?) as Jon Snow, Harry Lloyd as Viserys Targaryen, and Jack Gleeson as Joffrey Baratheon.

So we’ve got three PoV characters cast so far (Tyrion, Ned and Jon). Still have to cast the rest of the Starks (Caetlyn, Arya, Sansa and Brandon) and Daenerys Targaryen for the main characters. I’d think Danni and Arya are the tough ones.

Also there’s word that Rainmark, the production company behind Rome, is involved in the pilot and that Gemma Jackson (Finding Neverland) is the production designer. Heartening.

Comment #74: Sarcastro  on  07/21  at  04:10 PM

One thing that would be harder for a TV series would be the casting of the kids.  You need to cast an 11-year-old as Harry Potter who can grow the dramatic chops necessary to carry the series by the time he is 16 and 17.  The movies have been extraordinarily fortunate in the choice of the kids, Daniel Radcliffe in particular, but the movies have also had some things going for them that the series might not have.  The kids have been working with and mentored by most of the top talent in the British film industry.  The pacing of the movie making has given the kids a few extra years to grow up and gain experience - Radcliffe is now almost 20, playing a 17-year-old for the final two movies.  The whole enterprise has been extraordinarily protective of the kids throughout.  There haven’t been any drug burnouts or motorcycle crashes.  And even given all that, the kids were originally only cast through Prisoner of Azkaban - the producers explicitly contemplated changing the cast after the first three movies if it had turned out that the kids weren’t up to the demands of the later roles.  I think that’s a lot easier for movies to contemplate than a series that’s locked in to a seven-year run.

Comment #75: EDguy  on  07/23  at  04:10 PM
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