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Next entry: Three reasons the euthanasia lie has taken hold Previous entry: The truth comes out

My Ass Does Not Go Beep Beep When You Touch It

imageToday is my birthday.  And as such, I reserve the birthday right to make bold pronouncements about my life.  Today, as I turn 27 years old, I say unto the world that I am not a motherfucking car.  Robert Tracinski, writing at Real Clear Politics, describes how terrible the Democratic version of health insurance would be:

It is “a campaign of increasingly harsh rhetoric against the insurance industry” that is “intended to drive home the message that revamping the health care system will protect consumers by ending unpopular insurance industry practices, like refusing patients with pre-existing conditions.”

That part about pre-existing conditions gives the game away. Health insurance companies refuse to cover pre-existing conditions for the same reason that you can’t insure your automobile after you crash it. Insurance is a form of financing for the unexpected and unpredictable. It is not a mechanism to force somebody else to pick up the tab for expenses you have already incurred.

Cars generally have two forms of coverage: insurance and warranties.  Car insurance doesn’t function like health insurance, because cars are things and people are people.  Car insurance largely insures against accidents which cause physical damage to a car.  It will not cover too much damage, though; if your car is totaled, the insurance company will just pay out the full value of the car and call it a day.  If I switch from Insurer A to Insurer B, Insurer B will not cover preexisting damage that was Insurer A’s responsibility.  Insurer B can determine what is and isn’t its responsibility by having the car inspected, usually at little or no cost to the owner, and having the damage differentiated. 

Warranties, on the other hand, begin at or near the purchase of the vehicle (its effective “birth”), and cover a variety of potential issues with the functioning of the car.  The coverage is strongest at the beginning and weakest at the end, because problems are more likely to crop up as the car is used more and more - and therefore less likely to be the result of a flaw in the design (i.e., a preexisting condition) and more likely to be the result of the driver’s use of the car.  After a certain point, warranty coverage terminates altogether, and the assumption is that you will either pay for your repairs for your greatly devalued car out of pocket, or just trade it in and get a new one. 

If none of this sounds like your health insurance, it’s because you’re not a goddamn Transformer.  And stop asking me to call you Ultra Magnus, you freak. 

The purpose of car insurance is to cover liability.  That’s not the purpose of health insurance.  If health insurance worked like car insurance, the only time you’d ever get anything paid for is if someone else caused you harm (and your car insurance tends to only pay out net money when you’re at fault, not when someone else has caused you harm).  The purpose of a warranty is to cover manufacturer fault, which is why it declines in benefits so fast.  That’s not the purpose of health insurance.  If health insurance worked like a car warranty, we’d have head-to-toe coverage until we hit 18, and then we would only get coverage if our heart or brain stopped until we were 40, at which point we’d have nothing.  This is because when you insure cars, you’re insuring what’s commonly known as a replaceable product.  As we don’t like in a shitty Michael Bay film, there aren’t extras of us running around when the old ones get too run down or too expensive to upkeep.  The problem with the “unpredictability” argument is that it’s not actually relevant to healthcare - a car is a different thing from a human body, which you can tell by trying to make your car feel ashamed for its cellulite.  That metal fucker won’t even blink.

Insurance is a form of financing. It is a contract under which a health-insurance company agrees to pay for medical bills that could run into the tens of thousands of dollars, if you are hit by a bus or are diagnosed with cancer, so that you don’t have to pay for those bills out of your savings. For younger people, this means being able to pay for catastrophic care even if you haven’t had time to build up tens of thousands of dollars in savings. For older people, this means not having your retirement savings or the equity in your home get wiped out by an unexpected illness.

So let’s ask the question the left never asks: how is it possible for an insurance company to pay for these giant medical bills? What makes it possible is a whole set of statistical calculations. For every person who needs open-heart surgery or chemotherapy, there have to be a certain number of other people who are paying their premiums but haven’t gotten seriously ill. If the insurance company has gotten its calculations right, the expenses for any one person’s catastrophic care are balanced out by the premiums other people pay “just in case.”

You can see how Obama’s demands undermine this whole system. To ask insurance companies to cover a patient after the tumor is diagnosed is to ask them to take on a known expense. Combine that with another Obama demand: that insurance companies can’t charge higher rates for those who are at higher risk of getting sick. So if insurance companies have to take on a known expense and can’t charge a higher rate for it, how are they going to pay for it? By raising everyone else’s rates, redistributing their wealth to the new freeloaders.

By the way, yes, sick people are “freeloaders”.  Just so you know.

Again, this demonstrates a fundamental sickness with this “people are cars” position.  Car insurance gets higher the more “illnesses” you’ve had because car insurance covers liability and you’re more likely to be liable for damage to the car based on past behavior.  However, the problem with people is that when we get cancer, the likeliest way to get more cancer is to not treat the initial cancer.  Higher car insurance rates for bad drivers incentivize better driving; higher insurance rates for cancer patients incentivize better dying.  We ask health insurance companies to take on a known expense, because otherwise any break in coverage makes it likely that you will die or go bankrupt from future health problems related to the initial (treatable, manageable and less expensive) illness.

This all makes perfect sense if you think of yourself as a Nissan Sentra, which you might.  But a healthcare system which treats a unique, irreplaceable human body like something made on an assembly line, which is exactly what’s being advocated here, is a far scarier, impersonal and threatening system than one which recognizes that we have to keep our bodies running even after a melanoma or a broken leg.  It’s not that reform advocates don’t understand how insurance works, it’s that reform opponents don’t know the difference between a living person and the thing they use to drive to work every day.  Which one do you want in charge of healthcare?

 

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 12:28 PM • (55) Comments

Why do the douchebags always end up comparing human bodies to inanimate objects?

Maybe because it make it easier to avoid that oh-so-nasty argument about ... HUMAN RIGHTS!  It makes it seem like it is all about personal choices, moral panic, etc. and not about HUMAN RIGHTS!

Healthcare is not a warranty.  It is not a cash commodity.  Healthcare is a human right.  You cannot predict what will happen to your health - it simply is NOT possible and I say that as an epidemiologist!  There is no “well you should have just been rich enough to buy a new BMW” when it comes to health.  Moreover, preventative care is MORE available in a socialized system ... not LESS available.

Comment #1: Ms Kate  on  08/06  at  12:36 PM

Oh, and what are the odds that this fooltool thinks of himself as “pro life”?

Comment #2: Ms Kate  on  08/06  at  12:38 PM

...or it may be that, in order to do their masters’ bidding, reform opponents are throwing every addled, half-baked, water-headed piece of codswallop they can dream up at the subject, in desperate hope that something will stick…

Comment #3: Jack K., the Grumpy Forester  on  08/06  at  12:39 PM

oh, those poor insurance companies having to pay those huge bills for them freeloaders who got cancer, heart disease, etc. just for the joy of stickin’ it to those blameless free market heroes in the industry (a la Malkin wrt the lazy unemployed).  I say we liberate them from this onerous and intolerable burden, for good, by making the gummint do it!  They can find another line of work and not have to suffer our ingratitude ever again.

Comment #4: mingo  on  08/06  at  12:40 PM

My husband and I are trying to decide if we are going to a town hall tonight.  In the event that we do go, he sent me a delightful list of questions:

1. I have heard that the government will be sending people to visit old folks and give them pills to help them die.
When the time comes, can I get mine in liquid form?

2. For those of us chosen to survive, will we get big bags of money?

3. I think we can all agree that insurance companies, who profit off of dropping us when we get sick, have our best interests at heart.  Shouldn’t we be letting them run all these changes?

4. Can the government really be trusted to run healthcare since it has never done so before?  I mean, besides medicare and medicaid.

5. Can the government really be trusted to run such a large operation since it has never done so before?  I mean, besides the army, the national highway system, and the like?

6. Should the government really be in the business of helping people who just can’t make things work on their own?  I mean, its not like we subsidize farming or something.

7. If the government gets involved in health care, won’t it become very inefficient?  Lets face it, we had to get two MRIs instead of just 1 thanks to our current insurance provider, and then we had to go to the doctor’s office twice, once for a medical treatment and once to actually talk to the doctor.  That could get much worse.

Comment #5: Siobhan  on  08/06  at  12:40 PM

I hope the Republicans all get foursquare behind this idea that health care reform is bad because it denies insurance companies their fundamental right to reject and rescission people for “pre-existing conditions.”  It’s a very persuasive and sympathetic case to make.

Comment #6: FlipYrWhig  on  08/06  at  12:46 PM

Now I’m compelled to meditate on what your ass does do when someone touches it. wink

Town Hall isn’t for another couple of weeks, but we’ll be there. I doubt there will be any LiveTrolls there, but the good news is, that God blessed me with a powerful loud, deep voice. I’ve won every shouting contest I’ve ever entered, and I have zero patience for people who think that private insurance is the only way to go after nearly watching my husband die twice now. Bring it!

Comment #7: Mighty Ponygirl  on  08/06  at  12:50 PM

*Sings*

Happy birthday to you…happy birthday to you…

*ducks cans and tomatoes*

Jeezus, 27.  I got socks older than you.  What the hell are you worried about health insurance for?  Young people are immortal and don’t care about anybody but themselves.  Don’t you know that?

Comment #8: Magis  on  08/06  at  12:53 PM

Happy Birthday Jesse!

You know I wish I could slap these thugs in the face and make them all realize that these are people they are railing against and if the tables were turned and they didn’t have health insurance they would be right here where we are.  They have no perspective or empathy.  What happened to them to forget about the golden rule?

Comment #9: Amalink  on  08/06  at  12:55 PM

Now I’m compelled to meditate on what your ass does do when someone touches it.

LALALALAIHAVEMYFINGERSINMYEARSICAN’THEARYOULALALALALA

Quit that, Ponygirl - that’s just disturbing.

Comment #10: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/06  at  12:56 PM

An interesting analysis of performance and cost in the US Healthcare System.

Hint: it’s the “maximizing profit at every step” that does us in!

Comment #11: Ms Kate  on  08/06  at  12:58 PM

Happy birthday!

I am actually *in* the insurance industry (though in a very different area) and being in it makes his comparison more ridiculous.  Every area of insurance is underwritten in vastly different ways.  I’ve been saying for a long time that based on actual insurance principles such as pooling, health insurance would work better as a government program.  These rabid anti-government-anything folk also seem to forget there are other government-run insurance programs such as terrorism, crop, and windstorm insurance and reinsurance.  But then again, many of them are ignorant and/or willfully distorting the picture on medicare/medicaid too.

Comment #12: micheyd  on  08/06  at  01:01 PM

If none of this sounds like your health insurance, it’s because you’re not a goddamn Transformer.  And stop asking me to call you Ultra Magnus, you freak.

hehe.  *Dirty thoughts*  hehe.

If health insurance worked like a car warranty, we’d have head-to-toe coverage until we hit 18, and then we would only get coverage if our heart or brain stopped until we were 40, at which point we’d have nothing.

To be fair, that is - in a way - what programs like CHIP are supposed to do.  The idea being that every child should have health care coverage because defects at a young age are more likely a “manufacturer’s defect” than the result of smoking or excessive cheeseburger intake.

Likewise, it - in a way - resembles Medicare because we acknowledge that “being old” is a manufacturer’s defect in and of itself.  After you turn 65, the government agrees to pick up some of the tab.

In a way, universal coverage is very much like a lifetime warranty from the government.

All that said, the GOP doesn’t have a problem with the concept of insurance coverage in general.  Certainly, if Jim DeMint gets cancer or glacoma or herpes from too much time on C-Street, he’s not going to blame his smoking habit or reading in dim lighting or a bad run of hookers.  He’s just going to file his claim and be done with it.  And the insurance company isn’t going to cancel Jim DeMint’s insurance because he’s a fucking US Senator.

The GOP position is that some of us are Kias and some of us are Cadalliacs and if pre-famous Joe the Plumber gets a collapsed lung, it’s better to just toss him on the junk heap and get a new plumber because fixing Joe is going to cost more than his Kia-ass is worth.  But if you get a dent in the fender that is the Luxury Hummer that is Rush Limbaugh, his fat ass is irreplaceable, so spare no expense.

So take that around the block a few times, Mr. Car Metaphor.

Comment #13: Zifnab  on  08/06  at  01:04 PM

Tracinski just argued against why health care should be covered by insurance at all.  It’s obviously a stupid system, needs to be killed, and everyone should be covered by a single payer service that doesn’t need you to be perfectly healthy to join.

Comment #14: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/06  at  01:06 PM

You know what kills me in this debate?  The “Doctors and Nurses deserve to be paid for their hard work and sacrifice” argument.  I know some people in the Health Care Industry - a pediatrician and nurse - and they haven’t had a decent pay raise in several years (in fact the pediatrician has had a couple of pay cuts) as the HMO with which they are entangled continues to raise rates…and has built some more comfortable HQ buildings for the administrative staff.

So, in other words, the MEDICAL professionals working for the current system are getting no real benefit (except, of course, for those in the upper strata of Neurology, Cardiac Surgery, and so forth) from being HMO members - and the patients certainly aren’t getting any better care.  Who profits?  Ah, yes, the HMO investors and managers…

Comment #15: tannenburg  on  08/06  at  01:08 PM

Soulless motherfuckers.  That’s what they are.


It’s no coincedence that these people do the same thing to women—we’re just incubators for the BAYBEEZ.  Not human beings with rights, wants, and desires of our own.  If a poor sick person or a woman is just an object, it’s much easier to just write him/her off.

HB2U, youngster.  I’ve almost been out of high school longer than you’ve been alive.

Comment #16: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/06  at  01:09 PM

So let me understand this…

“It is a contract under which a health-insurance company agrees to pay for medical bills that could run into the tens of thousands of dollars, if you are hit by a bus or are diagnosed with cancer, so that you don’t have to pay for those bills out of your savings.”

...um, okay.  That sounds good…

“For every person who needs open-heart surgery or chemotherapy, there have to be a certain number of other people who are paying their premiums but haven’t gotten seriously ill.”

...this is the classic insurance wager: You’re betting something bad will happen that will cost more than you payed in, and the insurance company is betting you’ll pay in more than you ever get back out.

“So if insurance companies have to take on a known expense and can’t charge a higher rate for it, how are they going to pay for it? By raising everyone else’s rates, redistributing their wealth to the new freeloaders.”

...which is why it’s so unfair to make the insurance company pay for that bus accident or that cancer diagnosis to begin with.  ‘Cause paying anything to treat stuff that goes wrong makes everyone’s rates go up.  And that’s an evil redistribution of wealth to freeloaders.  So we need to eliminate the freeloaders. 

And that, of course, would mean refusing to pay for treatment of any kind.  Because you can never really tell when when somebody is a freeloader.  As long as they pay in but don’t get anything back, they are good, solid, customers.  But as soon as they get some problem and expect the insurance company to just whip out the large wallet, then that person becomes a freeloader.

Bottom line:  We should happily pay premiums to the insurance companies for health coverage.  In return, we should expect to be dropped as soon as we make any claims.  And as long as everyone pays in, and doesn’t expect anything to be paid out, then we have the best healthcare insurance in the world!...

Comment #17: MikeEss  on  08/06  at  01:31 PM

Tracinski just argued against why health care should be covered by insurance at all.  It’s obviously a stupid system, needs to be killed, and everyone should be covered by a single payer service that doesn’t need you to be perfectly healthy to join.

But what maximizes efficiency isn’t necessarily what is maximally popular.  And we’re in a Democracy, not a Philosophical Kingdom.

People like the general concept of insurance.  Everyone kicks something in and the needy get something out.  They like the idea of free market capitalism.  An individual or small group produce a product that derives it’s profit from increasing popularity.  And people love success stories.  So hearing, “Aetna just posted a $25 billion profit” makes people think ‘Hurray our system works’ more often than ‘Ouch, my butt hurts’.

A single payer system would be more cost effective, but a public option keeps people from panicking at the sight of the new and misunderstood.  If Obama runs single payer right, it’ll wipe out a bunch of the other insurance giants or at least drive them to the sidelines.  And then, by 2016 or 2020 or 2024, people will be asking, “Why the hell don’t we just go single payer and be done with it?”

But just like Medicare and Social Security have been baby steps on the road to intelligent, responsible government, Single Payer puts us in the direction of reform without pissing off or scaring all the old foggies who don’t know what they’re missing.

Comment #18: Zifnab  on  08/06  at  01:38 PM

The really bizarre thing is that Tracinski doesn’t even seem to notice that he’s constructing a very effective argument that insurance is simply the wrong model entirely for covering health care. It comes off like one of those scenes in A Shot in the Dark where Clouseau carefully constructs an airtight case against Maria Gambrelli, then leaps off in an insane direction at the end. The logical conclusion of his argument is that we should eliminate health insurance and move to a national system, but he instead gleefully proclaims (after demolishing it) that it’s the idea system and that Democrats are trying to destroy it.

Comment #19: Llelldorin  on  08/06  at  01:46 PM

Car insurance doesn’t function like health insurance, because cars are things and people are people.

Don’t tell the extreme free-marketeers or Libertarians—that’ll shatter their dreams and make them cry.

Which would make a good birthday present. Have a great one, Jesse.

Comment #20: Gracchus.  on  08/06  at  02:06 PM

The GOP position is that some of us are Kias and some of us are Cadalliacs and if pre-famous Joe the Plumber gets a collapsed lung, it’s better to just toss him on the junk heap and get a new plumber because fixing Joe is going to cost more than his Kia-ass is worth.  But if you get a dent in the fender that is the Luxury Hummer that is Rush Limbaugh, his fat ass is irreplaceable, so spare no expense.

Which proves to me just how fucking soulless these greedy pigs are.

I posted my thoughts on this issue the other day in regards to the whole concept of treating healthcare as a capitalist commodity:

Whether or not we live or die and our physical and psychological well-being ARE NOT a fucking commodity to be treated as a means to get rich in the free marketplace…

And that’s it, right there.  I don’t know how exactly we got to the place where we found it acceptable to view our health as something that should have a pricetag on it, and as something that should be determined by one’s means as opposed to one’s needs, but in any case, it is an absolutely inhumane and downright evil position we have carved out for our society.  And the sad thing is, so many of us just accept it as “just the way it is”.  Not here, so much, but in the broader public, sadly.

Healthcare should be viewed by society the same way we view schools, roads, and fire and police protection - not as luxuries only for those that can afford it, but as basic public services that should be accessible to all, regardless of their ability to pay.

Comment #21: DTG in STL  on  08/06  at  02:12 PM

Happy birthday! Now where’s your birth certificate?

Comment #22: Ben D.  on  08/06  at  02:17 PM

Since most of us get our health insurance through our employers, we also don’t have the choices available to us - when my employer decides to switch to another plan, I don’t get to have a say. So it’s not a typical market to begin with, which is one of the many reasons why typical market theory does not apply.

Comment #23: maurinsky  on  08/06  at  02:17 PM

Happy BDay Jesse. I just turned 30 this weekend. Since then I’ve had some annoying blinking light on my palm and the Quebec department of socialized healthcare has called me to congratulate me and invite me to some party called Carousel. Seems fun, can’t wait to attend.

Comment #24: BlackBloc  on  08/06  at  02:19 PM

Oh, god, what an idiot.

Charging sick people higher premiums defeats the POINT.  You pay a premium for the privilege of being covered on the off-chance you get sick or injured.  If you get money out of the system, it’s due to circumstances beyond your control and negated by the fact that you’re sick or injured, which is no picnic no matter what quality care you get (not to mention that you never actually see the money—-they pay it out to hospitals and doctors on your behalf and you get medical care instead).

And—-how, just HOW, does he—-after accurately stating that the premiums of the healthy pay for the medical care of the sick—-how does he turn that into “but actually PAYING for that medical care is too much expense for the system”?!!!!  Why are premiums as high as they are?  Why do people find it worthwhile to PAY the damn things?  Because they’re supposed to pay for all the treatment needed.  Because they’re expected to pay for all the treatment needed.

Half the reason we’re saying private insurance is fundamentally flawed is that the for-profit assholes decide too often that actually providing the services they’re paid for is “losing money.”  The other half is that they charge more than large numbers of people can legitimately pay.  They cost too much, pay too little, take a big fat lump out for stockholders and another big fat lump out for executives (plus they pay for all those people who fight having to pay out claims), and then whine that somebody actually putting the customer first would put them out of business due to basic free-market competition.

Incidentally, thank you much for the Ultra Magnus picture.  *saves*  Male-identified Transformers are about two-thirds of the reason I’m bisexual rather than lesbian.

(I have to point out, being a geek and all, that Transformers are a) not inanimate objects, but people with metal bodies, and b) have socialized health care.  When any of them get injured, Ratchet or the Constructicons fixes them up at no charge.)

Comment #25: Kyra  on  08/06  at  02:20 PM

“Since then I’ve had some annoying blinking light on my palm and the Quebec department of socialized healthcare has called me to congratulate me and invite me to some party called Carousel. Seems fun, can’t wait to attend.”

My light blinked for so long it ran down the battery and stopped…

Comment #26: MikeEss  on  08/06  at  02:34 PM

Also it might be worth something to point out that with most cars, the amount of money it costs to keep them going is limited.  If you’re so damned insistent that your beloved ‘85 Grand Marquis or your brand-new 2010 Camaro last you your whole life, you might end up shelling out the price of a couple new cars in body repair over the decades if you’re an unlucky driver.  Or you might save money by learning to do big chunks of it yourself, and spend many weekends under the hood getting your hands soaked in oil and grease.  You might have to get a rental a few times.

But you’re NOT going to be on the hook for three hundred thousand for the automotive equivalent of open-heart surgery.  You’re NOT going to ever face a bill in the millions for multiple rounds of chemotherapy.

Auto repair, even that above and beyond what most people would think worth doing if a car is totaled, is nowhere near as expensive as human care.  And human care, conversely, is sometimes nowhere near as cheap.

The price of buying and having a car, used or new, is something that is realistically affordable to most of our society—-look how many we have on the roads.  Cars, housing—-this is stuff that can be had for what most people are able to pay—-it might be shitty, but people can manage to afford it on their normal, real-world, working-class salaries.

But health care, on the other hand?  It’s expensive.  I don’t know the hows or whys of economics here, but some (necessary! vital!) healthcare costs more than some workers will make in their lifetimes.  Given the technology and the expertese involved, it’s priced as a luxury good.  But it’s NOT a luxury good.

It’s a need priced as a luxury good.

And this is why we need a functional payment plan for health care which covers us all.

Comment #27: Kyra  on  08/06  at  02:42 PM

I wonder how many of these people even realize how much they are “taxed” by healthcare premiums already?  How much money would be back in their pocket, only partly offset by taxes to support a single payer program?

I had great health insurance when I worked at Harvard, but I compared notes with the guy who welded my ‘93 Escort’s resonator in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia, Canada and he was astonished at what us yanks paid for what we got.  That was before we compared notes on childcare costs!

Comment #28: Ms Kate  on  08/06  at  02:49 PM

@ Siobhan,

Unfortunately, I think that many who attend the town meeting with you won’t *get* the sarcasm in your questions.

Comment #29: Monala  on  08/06  at  03:07 PM

Insurance is a form of financing for the unexpected and unpredictable.

So how does this guy explain life insurance?

Comment #30: Phoebe Fay  on  08/06  at  03:24 PM

Insurance companies are gamblers, period. They’re gambling that enough of the people they cover will stay healthy to cover the cost of covering those who don’t stay healthy. But it’s like gambling in Vegas - if you start costing the house money, they kick you out.

When we start costing them money, the health insurance companies find ways to get you out of the system. It’s like playing craps with loaded dice.

There is no “fair” way to play a game like that. I was a very healthy woman for the first 40 years of my life, and hardly ever needed to see a doctor except for a pap, and one pregancy/birth. Since then, I had an accident which caused 7 or 8 surgeries. I developed asthma..and from the surgeries, arthritis. I’m a tiny person, and wound up with early osteoporosis. And in December, I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. None of these things were foreseeable or preventable. They are costly…but for 40 years the insurance companies took my money every month without complaint. As far as I’m concerned they lost the gamble they took. That is the cost of doing business, and the idea that they could dump me for getting sick just outrages me. It’s the nature of gambling that even the house loses occasionally.  If they dont want to gamble, get out of the insurance business.

Single payer is really the only civilized way to go.

Comment #31: Broce  on  08/06  at  03:38 PM

5. Can the government really be trusted to run such a large operation since it has never done so before?  I mean, besides the army, the national highway system, and the like?

Don’t forget about educating nearly every child in America!

Seriously though, be careful with the sarcasm/snark.  Unfortunately, there are probably some wingnuts out there who will take you completely seriously, and you could end being their next spokesperson.  Sometimes I’m tempted to think that this has already happened, and people like Orly Taitz are really just parodies.

Comment #32: bananacat  on  08/06  at  03:48 PM

Since most of us get our health insurance through our employers, we also don’t have the choices available to us - when my employer decides to switch to another plan, I don’t get to have a say. So it’s not a typical market to begin with, which is one of the many reasons why typical market theory does not apply.

Yes, exactly!  Who do so many wingnuts completely forget about this?

Comment #33: bananacat  on  08/06  at  03:49 PM

I think another reason the auto-insurance/health care analogy falls apart is because you can live without a car, but you can’t live without a body.  People factor in the cost of insurance before deciding whether or not to buy a car, or which car to buy.  Some people will choose to not buy any car (I realize that’s not practical for many people), and some people will choose to buy a cheaper car or one that tends to have fewer problems, etc.  People don’t have any of those choices with their bodies.  They can’t just decide that having a body is too expensive and decide not to have one.  They can’t choose to get a cheaper model or one that doesn’t have anything wrong with it.

Comment #34: bananacat  on  08/06  at  03:53 PM

I wonder how many of these people even realize how much they are “taxed” by healthcare premiums already?  How much money would be back in their pocket, only partly offset by taxes to support a single payer program?

Many don’t.  Last weekend my sister-in-law, who, while not stupid, isn’t necessarily a deep thinker (and hence still a Republican), was complaining about a veterinary bill.  “It cost me $400 hundred dollars for two dogs, including vaccinations, exams and heartworm preventative.  I’ve never spend that much money on my own health!”

At which point I noted that she easily paid several times more year in health insurance premiums.  That shut her up.

She works for a state entity and has decent insurance.  Like many who get their insurance through an employer, I imagine that she doesn’t think about premiums because it is the employer, not her, who is actually cutting the check and paying the insurer.  Yeah, the deduction is right there on her paycheck, but it still isn’t as tangible as actually writing the check yourself.

Anyway, in the perversely ironic manner of wingnuts everywhere, I doubt that Robert Tracinski is even aware that he’s made a rather cogent argument against for-profit health insurance.

Comment #35: adobedragon  on  08/06  at  03:57 PM

Unfortunately, I think that many who attend the town meeting with you won’t *get* the sarcasm in your questions.

I know.  It makes me REALLY sad.  According to ThinkProgress,

Last night, Rep. Gene Green (D-TX) hosted a rowdy town hall meeting to discuss health care reform… During the town hall, one conservative activist turns to his fellow attendees and asks them to raise their hands if they “oppose any form of socialized or government-run health care.” Almost all the hands shot up. Rep Green quickly turned the question on the audience and asked, “How many of you have Medicare?” Nearly half the attendees raised their hands, failing to note the irony.

Comment #36: Siobhan  on  08/06  at  04:08 PM

<blockquote> Insurance is a form of financing for the unexpected and unpredictable.

So how does this guy explain life insurance? </blockquote>

Life Insurance is financing for your next of kin in the event of the unexpected and the unpredictable.  If you live to be 100-years-old, the premiums you paid on your life insurance policy made the insurance company far and away more money than they’re paying you.

If you could magically know with absolute certainty that you would live to be over 80, life insurance would be a worse deal than just loading up your retirement account.

Comment #37: Zifnab  on  08/06  at  04:11 PM

She works for a state entity and has decent insurance.  Like many who get their insurance through an employer, I imagine that she doesn’t think about premiums because it is the employer, not her, who is actually cutting the check and paying the insurer.  Yeah, the deduction is right there on her paycheck, but it still isn’t as tangible as actually writing the check yourself.

Let’s not forget the portion of the premium that ISN’T typically printed on the paycheck stub, the employer contribution… that is part of an employee’s compensation package, though most of us don’t automatically think about it that way.  And the employer contribution is typically 3-4 times greater than the employee contribution (as anybody who has ever had to go on COBRA finds out), so this is a significant chunk of the healthcare premium equation that many people never even consider (until they are put into the position of having to go on COBRA or buy a private plan).

Now imagine a single-payer system in which employers no longer have to worry about providing healthcare at all.  Is all that money that was being shelled out in the form of an employer contribution (and all the administrative costs of overseeing an employee health insurance benefits program) going to wind up getting tacked onto your paycheck?  Doubtful.  But it’s arguable that at least some of it likely would, as good employers know that being able to offer a competitive wage helps with employee retention, which ultimately cuts down on the cost of hiring and training new employees.

Single-payer isn’t just a good thing for the private citizens who would benefit from it, it is also a good thing for the many companies that would no longer have to deal with health insurance benefits administration as part of their operating expenses.

Comment #38: DTG in STL  on  08/06  at  04:26 PM

You can live without a car, but you can’t live without a body.

-Just waiting for the day, catgirl. Moment it becomes feasible, I’m uploading to a killbot or foglet…

Comment #39: Mark Temporis  on  08/06  at  04:42 PM

Transmetropolitan, right Mark?

Comment #40: Daniel-138  on  08/06  at  04:45 PM

Life Insurance is financing for your next of kin in the event of the unexpected and the unpredictable.

My point was that the fact of dying is totally expected and predictable. It’s the timing that’s tricky. Which is why even the idiot writing the article could probably see that it’s ridiculous to compare life insurance to car insurance. They have different goals. Comparing health insurance to car insurance is equally ridiculous.

But… what if we forced health insurers to also sell life insurance to their customers. wink That would give them an incentive to provide preventive care and keep you healthy, as opposed to the current system in which the incentive is to avoid preventative care and then just find a way to kick you off once something catastrophic happens.

Comment #41: Phoebe Fay  on  08/06  at  05:08 PM

Yeah, the deduction is right there on her paycheck, but it still isn’t as tangible as actually writing the check yourself.

Not to mention that most of us insured folk pay only a percentage of the full bill for that insurance!

Comment #42: Ms Kate  on  08/06  at  05:19 PM

“Yeah, the deduction is right there on her paycheck”

That’s another thing: If you work for 30 years for an employer with benefits, you’ve put somewhere well north of a quarter-million dollars (including investment income) into the insurance company’s pocket. And they blow a quarter of that on administrative costs. Imagine what each of us could do with that kind of money if we had it to use for our own purposes. (Sure, the other three quarter gets spent on something resembling health care, but that’s a heck of a way to run a railroad.)

Comment #43: paul  on  08/06  at  05:33 PM

Insurance companies are gamblers, period. They’re gambling that enough of the people they cover will stay healthy to cover the cost of covering those who don’t stay healthy. But it’s like gambling in Vegas - if you start costing the house money, they kick you out.

They aren’t gamblers.  They’re the casinos.  And the casinos always win.  In the case of health insurance, they’re casinos with a house edge vastly higher than anything real casinos (usually governed by competition) can get on slots or craps, an edge they can raise any time they want, where they can refuse to pay out jackpots even if a gambler gets lucky* and where they have a captive audience that’s forced to gamble with them and can’t take their business elsewhere.

*Lucky here, being defined as badly injured or seriously ill.  So lucky.

Comment #44: libdevil  on  08/06  at  05:36 PM

Happy birthday, holmes! I will drink a toast of motherfucking Jameson in your honor tonight!

Comment #45: PhysioProf  on  08/06  at  06:15 PM

Beeping butt plugs, you say? I fully endorse this idea to freak out my girlfriend.

Comment #46: AndersH  on  08/06  at  06:32 PM

But… what if we forced health insurers to also sell life insurance to their customers. wink

Then you end up with AIG.  :-p

Seriously, though.  The concept is still the same.  Life insurance companies work on the assumption that there will be an average life expectancy for your person group (age/race/regional varient/whatever) and that they need to charge you $X / time period in order to turn a profit.

So, assuming you are 30 and they expect you to die at 70, and you take out a $1 million policy, they have 40 years to collect premiums and invest the money to generate greater than $1 million in income.

For car insurance, it’s true that filling a claim is not guaranteed, but the insurance company does predict some “average” customer that will file an “average” amount of claims damages.  Any given person might not get in a wreck, but wrecks are virtually guaranteed to happen, so the company knows there will be some definite amount of payout.  Like life insurance, they do a similar set of math.  Except rather than racking it up for you as an individual driver, they do it for all the drivers in their pool.  They say, “We expect $10 million in claims from these 100k drivers” and then charge premiums they believe they can invest at a high enough rate of return to turn a profit.

Ultimately, however, it’s still a question of “How much money do we have to raise if we expect to pay out all claims at the end of the year and still turn a profit?”

Comment #47: Zifnab  on  08/06  at  06:33 PM

People don’t have any of those choices with their bodies.  They can’t just decide that having a body is too expensive and decide not to have one.  They can’t choose to get a cheaper model or one that doesn’t have anything wrong with it.

Exactly, catgirl. And some of us just get lemons! I have a friend who has been dealing with Crohn’s Disease for 30 years.  Our running joke is that he would to exchange his body for a newer, healthier model but no one will take his in trade.

Incidently, this man just lost his house and has filed for bankruptcy for the second time because of uncovered health care costs.  Yes, he has decent health insurance but when you’re hospitalized 5 or 6 times/year for at least a week at a time and undergo numerous surgeries and transfusions, it tends to add up.

Comment #48: BadKitty  on  08/06  at  06:44 PM

Tracinski just argued against why health care should be covered by insurance at all.  It’s obviously a stupid system, needs to be killed, and everyone should be covered by a single payer service that doesn’t need you to be perfectly healthy to join.

You beat me to it, Amanda.  He’s probably oblivious to the fact that he just laid out the perfect case against health care being run by a for-profit gambling industry.

Comment #49: DonnaDiva  on  08/06  at  06:55 PM

Your ass does not go beep beep when I touch it?

Overruled. Assumes facts not in evidence.

Comment #50: Quaker in a Basement  on  08/06  at  08:31 PM

Overruled. Assumes facts not in evidence.

Quaker, the Ethics Committee has warned you off this experiment once already. Don’t make us give you a cold shower again.

Comment #51: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/06  at  09:57 PM

Happy Birthday!  You will be pleased to know you share this birth date with the late Jon Benet Ramsey, may she rest in peace.

http://www.turtlethoughts.com

Comment #52: HP Stevens  on  08/06  at  10:37 PM

One point of similarity between auto liability insurance and health insurance is that mandatory coverage for all automobiles greatly reduced the cost of insurance for everyone.  I’m not 27 so I remember the auto liability crisis of the 70s (or was it the 80s) which led to states adopting this requirement.  Regardless of the type of insurance, the larger the pool with which to dilute the risk, the lower the premiums will be.

Comment #53: digitusmedius  on  08/07  at  09:37 AM

“My Ass Does Not Go Beep Beep When You Touch It”

how ‘bout when you back up?

Comment #54: jefft452  on  08/07  at  04:31 PM

first,  happy bday, jesse!

second, the tranaformers wasn’t “shitty.”  wasn’t great, but definately not shitty.

third, when i read the title of this post, i thought for sure amanda wrote it.

Comment #55: skippy  on  08/08  at  12:39 AM
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