Don’t worry, Andrew Sullivan will protect you from “the biggest liar in the modern history of presidential politics” and his “paranoid, vindictive, corrupt running mate.  And his highest ever technorati rating will insure that the word gets out.

McCain’s legendary hotheadness may have doomed him. You start spewing shit in the last two weeks, when it’s too late to counter effectively. He has achieved the political equivalent of premature ejaculation.

I think the reason for McCain’s dive into sleeze can be found here.

Thanks for the links, even though they were no doubt left sarcastically.

Well, I sincerely believe that Sullivan said those things, just like he said John McCain is now for ever a despicable and dishonest and dishonorable man and that when [Palin] isn’t lying, she is bullshitting.

I do have a purpose in leaving these links: Having abandoned secularism in favor of superstition, I view you as the lucky rabbit’s foot for whatever presidential candidate you support.  (Of course, I view all women as non-human body parts).  So, use the links wisely and go all out for Obama!

Wow, afarensis. I for some reason hadn’t heard that before.

We’re at McCain’s high* water mark.

*High in polling, not in integrity or honor, both of which he sacrificed when he sold his soul to the meanest, far-right elements of his party. Devil Went Down to Georgia should be his campaign theme song.

Shorter Amanda: I’m freaking out that McCain didn’t just let Obama win the election!!!!!!

Shorter Sharon…

...yeah. The shorter the better.

Sharon—

You forgot some exclamation points.  Remember—ridiculous punctuation distracts from the vacuousness of your post.

Sharon-

Enjoy dancing in the end zone when it’s only the middle of the third quarter and you’re only up by a field goal.

Remember, if you feed the Sharon, the trolls have won!

Shorter Sharon:  Can’t the Supreme Court step in now instead of November?

Shanon on November 5th, 2008:

THE MEDIA STOLE IT FROM US! THE LIBERAL MEDIA! LIBERALS! LIBERALS! GODLESS, GUN STEALING AMERICA HATING GAY MUSLIM LIBRUHS!!!

Enjoy dancing in the end zone when it’s only the middle of the third quarter and you’re only up by a field goal.

...and your team is already throwing Hail Mary passes and deliberately trying to injure our players.

Oh, I was on Red State tonight (don’t ask why) and apparently if you think the country is worse off now than in 2000, it’s because you’re not working hard enough.

So they’re saying 80% of America is lazy. Yeah. Because working harder will magically cause the price of gas to fall and the dollar to be stronger. And this rock keeps away tigers.

I have thought of David Foster Wallace recently in another context. Infinite Jest, though possibly another of those unread doorstop novels, is actually SF, set around (as far as I can guess) 2010. But the USA is governed by a bizarre Reagan / Elvis-like “Johnny Gentle,” who has instituted Subsidized Time. Numerical years A.D. (C.E. for you atheists) are dropped and each year is named for a product, as in the Year of the Depends Adult Undergarment (Y.D.A.U.), or the Year of the Maytag Dishmaster. Gentle, practicing Experialism, forced Canada to accept a major part of upstate New York and Vermont which is toxically polluted: the Concavity. And so it goes.

I’m afraid that if McCain/Palin are elected, and McCain dies in office, we’ll have Palin for president and she’ll institute Christian Subsidized Time.

Oh, I was on Red State tonight (don’t ask why) and apparently if you think the country is worse off now than in 2000, it’s because you’re not working hard enough.

If everyone just worked that much harder, we could save Lehman Brothers!

More ‘personal responsibility for thee but not for me.’  Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Well, Doug, I think the idiots on Red State were just channeling their inner Phil Gramm.

“It’s a mental recession, you whiners!”

What I couldn’t have anticipated was that McCain would run a campaign against Barack Obama so deceitful, so filthy, so dishonest, and so contemptuous of the democratic process that it would make Bush’s dirty campaign against him look like child’s play.

Oh, you can’t be that naive.

Clinton? Kerry? And the fact that Obama is… differently hued… just gives them all the more chance to get dirty. 

Democracy.  Means.  Shit.  To.  Republicans.

Power.  Means.  EVERYTHING.

In the woodpile of American politics, that’s the differently hued person everyone seems to overlook.

Ok, I just read that Merrill Lynch is getting bought up, Lehman’s declaring bankruptcy, and AIG is asking the Fed for a bailout.

It seems economic apocalypse will push Palin off the front page next week.

Everything I hear about Palin scares me more and more.  She is totally unfit to govern.  The idea of her as President is profoundly unacceptable. 

I have always admired John McCain.  I admired the campaign he tried to run.  But this is how a presidential election gets won.  Tom Friedman complains that McCain’s campaign is making the voters stupid.  They were already stupid.  McCain’s pollsters have just finally organized a campaign to energize them.

I am terrified of what’s going to happen if either party wins.

I love it when the brainwashed losers start their refrain that “the democrats are getting desperate” and loser Sharon asserting that “we are watching the election slip away”.

Gee, then what candidate and his Side Show Sarah are repeating lies over and over, trying smear tactics, etc.?  The desperate ones!  The ones with NOTHING to run on because they want four more years of pillaging by their cronies, friends, and army of lobbyist friends.

Ok, I just read that Merrill Lynch is getting bought up, Lehman’s declaring bankruptcy, and AIG is asking the Fed for a bailout.

That’s it!  The guys at RedState were obviously right.  I’m gonna head into the office and see if maybe an extra 9 hours or so of hard work on the hand props I’m supposed to be fabricating will nip this in the bud.

The Republicans are headed for 40 years in the wilderness.  On fiscal and economic policy, the Dems are so far right they might as well be Republicans.  On social issues, Americans are turning against the crazies.  And there’s the shithole the Republicans have dug us into.

McCain had an opportunity to fight the good fight.  He could have taken the necessary and inevitable first steps to boot the religious right out of the party.  He could have run a decent campaign on the issues and reaffirmed basic decency and commitment to civil liberties as principles both parties can agree on.  But, no, of course not.  In the end he’s power mad, and maybe Cindy is just that desperate to redecorate the White House.

If the Repubs somehow manage to pull this off, the Republican Party won’t be facing 40 years in the wilderness.  They will be finished, permanently.

“It’s a mental recession, you whiners!”

Sounds like a job for Teh American Hologram!

Whenever reality rears it’s ugly head and bites you in the ass, never fear ... we’ve got flags in all sizes and jingoism for all who just don’t want to see it!

All Americans, regardless of caste, live in a culture woven of self-referential illusions. Like a holographic simulation, each part refers exclusively back to the whole, and the whole refers exclusively back to the parts. All else is excluded by this simulated reality. Consequently, social realism in this country is a television commercial for America, a simulated republic of eagles and big box stores, a good place to live so long as we never stray outside the hologram.

McCain’s daddy and granddaddy were both admirals.  McCain not only didn’t finish in the top of his class at Annapolis, but was in the bottom 5.

I used to think that was bad, but I had thought that it was out of a class of 200 or so.  Which is bad, but, well, it’s a small class.  Then I saw the Daily Show’s campaign video for him, where he was 895 out of 899.  894 people did better than him?  Really?  That’s…kind of pathetic.

I don’t think one should necessarily equate school performance with intelligence. Some people just don’t do well in school, for whatever reason, but are still intelligent.

It’s simple. McQueeg’s campaign is being run by the same people who ran Bush’s campaign. They are willing to employ and amplify the same tactics in order to win the election. It is working, but will it continue to work? Time will tell. Sadly, Obama has many veterans of the Gore and Kerry campaigns and it remains to be seen if they’ve really learned the lessons of those efforts.

I’d say that the Naval Academy is very selective, but then again, he was a serious legacy candidate.

One must also point out that he is alive today because his captors quickly found out that he was an admiral’s kid and decided to stop torturing him to death because they thought that they might get something for him.  I’m sure that other aviators would not have that privilege, although it isn’t McCain’s fault that he did.

I used to think that was bad, but I had thought that it was out of a class of 200 or so.  Which is bad, but, well, it’s a small class.  Then I saw the Daily Show’s campaign video for him, where he was 895 out of 899.  894 people did better than him?  Really?  That’s…kind of pathetic.

Keep in mind that one’s standing in a Federal military academy is a mix of grading both one’s academic and military bearing. 

Considering he is famous for accumulating a huge number of demerits for stuff like having a cluttered room, dressing up like a slob, etc, he may not have been as much of an academic dunce as W was at Yale where military bearing and exhaustive military drills were not part of the institutional curriculum. 

Moreover, the curriculum at these academies tended to privilege engineering and technical sciences for all majors which along with the exhaustive military drills can place those less inclined towards the math and sciences and more towards the humanities/social sciences at a severe disadvantage.*

Then again, I had a cousin who was math and science oriented who transferred out of a Federal military academy after one year because he felt the already demanding engineering and science curriculum wasn’t challenging enough for him…..and he ended up at MIT’s main rival in Pasadena, California. 

In short: McCain’s low class standing does not in itself necessarily mean he is unintelligent…....his subsequent actions….especially during his 26 year political career provide more than enough proof

* My classmates and I had a taste of this at our public magnet high school due to its math & science emphasis.  Many classmates within our incoming class ended up transferring/dropping out in their first and second year because they weren’t able to cope with the accelerated demanding curriculum…..especially in an environment where it was common for the better students among us to be taking mid and even upper-level undergrad math and science courses at nearby NYC area universities.

I’m partially with Ben D. on this one.  How one did in military academy is not a useful guide to performance in the field.  Amongst other things, where you stand in a military academy also includes demerits and conduct evaluations.  An independent-thinking, risk-taking prankster who excels in combat could be at or near the bottom of his class because of accumulated demerits.

I’m also with Ms Kate, though.  He was a huge legacy candidate.  We must factor in the fact that had he not been who he was he might have been expelled.

exholt posted while I was typing, and made my point better than I did.

To seize on exholt’s point about engineering:

The very conservative and very pro-military thriller writer Tom Clancy is capable of some insightful critiques of the US military, built into a fictional framework.  One of those critiques was the fetishization of engineering and technical skills over human skills: the character of “Captain Harry Ricks”, a missile submarine CO, is pretty much a metaphor for this sort of misplaced emphasis on technical skills over a well-rounded person, the latter being a better commander.

An independent-thinking, risk-taking prankster who excels in combat could be at or near the bottom of his class because of accumulated demerits.

seeker6079,

Good point.  Several WWII and Korean War vets I’ve met have mentioned that the person who in peacetime would be regarded as a nonconforming troublemaker in peacetime is precisely the type of person you want at your side when the fighting gets vicious and the odds seem against you. 

I’m also with Ms Kate, though.  He was a huge legacy candidate.  We must factor in the fact that had he not been who he was he might have been expelled.

Good point. 

Also..considering one commenter made in a recent McCain & computers thread, the fact he flew ground-attack aircraft in combat does not necessarily mean he is technically inclined.  The A-4 Skyhawk’s avionics and weapon systems during McCain’s Vietnam days were superficially not too far removed from their WWII counterparts.  Moreover, I’ve known a fair number of older ex-military pilots/navigators, engineers, and even those who worked on mainframe computers who have serious difficulties learning how to use personal computers. 

As for criticisms….at the very least, he should be called out for flip-flopping on his issue stances…such as the one on Bush’s tax cuts…

Anyone reminded of the famous line “Read my lips, no new taxes” which became the stuff of fiscal conservative nightmares in the early ‘90s?

exholt, McCain is getting scolded on the tax cuts, and from the right, no less.  Alan Greenspan:

In an interview with Bloomberg Television, Greenspan argued that the country couldn’t afford the tax cuts being proposed by John McCain without an equally massive reduction in spending.

“I’m not in favor of financing tax cuts with borrowed money,” he said. “I always have tied tax cuts to spending.”

His assertion that he was consistent is horseshit, of course.  His record is fairly clear: GOP presidents are left alone, even when they are running fiscally amok, as Bush 43 did; Clinton, on the other hand, he watched like a hawk.  But the essential point remains: even conservative totems are saying that McCain’s fiscal plans are nonsense.

PS: on that note about military men, one might also want to note Custer.  Bottom of his class and a superb cavalry general.  (Like NB Forrest, however, an amoral figure better cut for the SS; but we are talking performance in the field.)  Even Little Big Horn is arguably just a case of him doing everything right and being caught in a Perfect Storm.

I wonder if he was placed in a fighter jet in the first place because he was physically tough but also impulsive.  Naval aviators were not historically considered “line commander” material - they were not in the career track to actually command ships, something the Navy has long favored for higher command ranks.

Considering he is famous for accumulating a huge number of demerits for stuff like having a cluttered room, dressing up like a slob, etc, he may not have been as much of an academic dunce as W was at Yale where military bearing and exhaustive military drills were not part of the institutional curriculum.

McCain chose to attend a military university.  Saying that we should take this into special consideration is like saying we should take into account that Hypothetical Candidate X went to art school, so their grades depend not only on academics but on having their artistic talent evaluated, or supplying work for campus art shows,  or doing an internship, and the like. 

I think it’s pretty fair to assume that, for our national CEO, we want someone who has excelled in life.  Graduating 5th from last in your college class, no matter what kind of school you went to, is not excelling.  Especially when your opponent was the first black president of the Harvard Law Review.

Moreover, the curriculum at these academies tended to privilege engineering and technical sciences for all majors which along with the exhaustive military drills can place those less inclined towards the math and sciences and more towards the humanities/social sciences at a severe disadvantage.*

Again, McCain chose to attend such a school. 

I also went to a magnet high school which privileged math and the sciences, and which had a really high attrition rate.  But because it was a magnet school students who wanted to leave or weren’t succeeding had the alternative to return to their “home school” if they couldn’t handle the work.  Just as university students usually have the opportunity to transfer to a different school if the one they started at wasn’t a good fit. 

There are cases where people grow up in such strict families that they aren’t allowed to choose their own path even in college, and McCain might be one.  But that was 50 years ago, and he’s had plenty of time to carve a new path for himself.  I know someone who was pressured into becoming a doctor by his family.  He dealt with it all the way through med school, graduated, did the residency and the whole bit, and realized he really, really didn’t want to be a doctor.  He eventually went back to school, and is now a successful history professor.  If he were to run for president and have someone hold his (hypothetically) shoddy med school records out as a disqualification, he could just say “that wasn’t the right field for me, and I felt pressured by family.  I later made the choice to do something else, and HERE is proof that I have succeeded at my true vocation.”  McCain doesn’t say that, though—he says Noun Verb POW.

Ms Kate: Not quite.  iirc, the commander of a carrier has to be an aviator, by law.  If memory serves it was due to Congress’ (deep and very valid) suspicion that unless they made it so this innovative new weapon would be in the hands of battleship admirals who would either not understand it or deliberately misuse them.

One of those critiques was the fetishization of engineering and technical skills over human skills: the character of “Captain Harry Ricks”, a missile submarine CO, is pretty much a metaphor for this sort of misplaced emphasis on technical skills over a well-rounded person, the latter being a better commander.

One of the reasons for this is traditional…since almost its founding….West Point’s curriculum had an engineering heavy curriculum and was the only engineering school in the US for the first few decades of the 19th century. 

Another is the desire of every military to use technological advances and research to give it an edge in deterring potential rivals….or increase the odds of defeating them in a war.  This trend has accelerated with industrialization in the 19th century and the countless subsequent technological innovations. 

As for the stereotype of technical science majors/professionals not being well-rounded, that IMO is due to a combination of factors. 

One is the poor state of US math and science education combined with the sheer amount of information technical science majors…especially engineers are required to learn in order to graduate and if so inclined, pass the Professional Engineer exam.  As a result, most technical majors I knew had much less opportunities to take electives outside of their heavy requirements than their natural science, humanities, and social science counterparts.  Moreover, those factors meant that most of those majors end up having to spend most of their waking hours studying to survive until graduation unless they were unusually gifted in that area….which meant that the vast majority of technical science majors didn’t have as much free time for social/leisure activities as their non-technical science major counterparts. 

Second is the sheer denigration of those inclined towards math and sciences as “nerds”, “geeks”, etc….sometimes to the point of physical violence among children and adolescents which created a siege mentality among many college classmates and co-workers of mine who attended more mainstream public and even private high schools.  The more the “popular people” denigrated and even beat them up for being “nerds” and “geeks”, the more they drew more into themselves for mutual support and encouraging each other to push on in their academic endeavors…..some with the attitude of “That’s alright, that’s ok….you’re gonna work for us someday” towards their childhood/adolescent bullies. 

Though I’ve had a taste of this in junior high, the fact I attended an urban public magnet high school where being “nerdy”, geeky, and academically inclined was strongly prized by the student body meant I didn’t have to put up with 4 more years of that BS…..though that was negatively compensated by the constant cutthroat grade-grubbing and snobbing on the basis of one’s standardized test scores.  Nevertheless, the seemingly commonplace high school experience of the academically inclined being bullied by the “popular people” was one thing I am glad I missed from my high school experience.

Though some may feel that math and science are lionized in US society…but I am not so sure.  Whereas a fair number of engineers/scientists can rise and become corporate and national leaders other societies like China, most of our public and corporate leaders of non-technical corporations tend to be lawyers and business school graduates.

I wonder if he was placed in a fighter jet in the first place because he was physically tough but also impulsive.

Seeker6079 is correct that only naval aviators can command aircraft carriers according to naval regulations. 

As for his selection for pilot training…that IS a sign of legacy privilege due to his family’s naval connections.  From what I heard, naval aviation slots are usually awarded to those near the top of the graduating naval academy class.  If McCain was Joe schmoe instead of who he was…there was almost no way he would have been selected considering his low class standing. 

McCain chose to attend a military university.

From glancing at one of his biographies and from a couple of cable news interviews, though he didn’t say as much….there was a strong indication that pressures from family tradition and his father were such that going to Annapolis wasn’t really a voluntary choice. 

In fact, from one of those interviews, he has admitted he would have preferred to attend a more liberal arts centered institution like Princeton…..but there was no way in hell his family would have allowed that.

Exholt, that holds true for aviator slots for the current Navy.  During Vietnam, there was a bit of reluctance, as top grads were also quite often legacies, to put them so directly in harm’s way. Being on a ship that is thousands of miles away from any trouble is different than flying over enemy territory repeatedly, and each carrier landing is quite an adventure in and of itself (I always found it questionable that some people thought Bush-I lacked courage ... the guy did carrier landings in combat situations in the 1940s! That took real nads). That may have opened up some space for somebody like McCain, who had suitable physical abilities and may have felt that he needed a chance to redeem himself.  Shit, he probably even liked it and enjoyed doing it.

Exholt, that holds true for aviator slots for the current Navy.  During Vietnam, there was a bit of reluctance, as top grads were also quite often legacies, to put them so directly in harm’s way.

McCain graduated from Annapolis and was selected for pilot training in 1958, well before the US took a more active role in the Vietnam War. 

Considering the popularity and glamorization of military aviation, especially after WWII…it would have taken an awful lot of those who graduated in better standing than him to have allowed him to be selected if he was Joe Shmoe who graduated in the bottom 5 of his class. 

The decline of US military pilot selection standards due to the Vietnam War rampup that you’re probably referring to only started during the mid-1960s….well after McCain had graduated and became established in his naval aviation career.

Pulling all of this together, I think that we can take it as a given that naval aviation is mind-bogglingly hazardous at the best of times, and exponentially more so in warfare.  We know that McCain was probably near the bottom of the skills set (constant crashing of planes???), so much so that he probably would have been washout out had it not been for the family name and connections.

I suspect that Annapolis had competition for those who wanted to be pilots - the USAF Academy was brand new in the 1950s.  That might have helped McCain secure a slot - keep in mind, many of those top grads were also legacy and might have had similar pull.

I suspect that Annapolis had competition for those who wanted to be pilots - the USAF Academy was brand new in the 1950s.  That might have helped McCain secure a slot - keep in mind, many of those top grads were also legacy and might have had similar pull.

Only if McCain had opted to cross-commission into the USAF as 1/4 of each Annapolis graduating class were allowed to do back then as USAFA hadn’t yet graduated their first class (1959).  Even so….an awful lot of those with higher class standing would have had to decide not to opt for that for him to have gotten that chance.  He was 5th from the bottom of his class after all. 

That’s what I get for spending too much time as a kid looking thorough parts of my cousin’s USAFA handbook when he was a cadet there in the mid-1980s.

there was a strong indication that pressures from family tradition and his father were such that going to Annapolis wasn’t really a voluntary choice.

Well then it’s as I said.  He’s had 50 years to redeem himself.  He doesn’t seem particularly able to to do so, lately at least, without harping on his (failed) military career.  If your parents make you go to Annapolis for your undergrad, you do it and then you go do a masters at Princeton in what you wanted to study in the first place.  I have a lot of friends who were pressured by family to choose a certain school or major.  Now that it’s been 5 years since college, they’re all a lot more free to pursue the things that strike their fancy.  And they generally aren’t doing that by graduating at the bottom of their class and then continuing to fail at the career they didn’t want.

To return to the topic of Bush’s treatment of McCain in 2000, and McShame’s unseemly willingness to deal out the very same brand of ugly, toxic filth to others: McSame has always struck me as very typical of his kind of political player, in that he sucks up any and all abuse from those higher on the ladder than he is, while kicking down onto those beneath him. And in 2000, Bush was definitely higher up on the ladder than he was. The GOP’s real owners had made their preference for Bush in that election pretty plain, and so Grampy had no real choice but to suck it up and wait for his opportunity next time…8 years down the road. How ‘honorable’ of him!

Not that I was ever a fan of Furious Johnny, but as with all rational thinking people, I could recognize violations against common human deceny when I saw them, and I thought Bush’s attacks against him in 2000 really went beyond the pale. They were ugly, even by modern political standards, and made me despise Bush all the more. McCain’s real character really had nothing to do with it. In retrospect, I can almost approve of Bush dragging the rotten old bastard through the slime back then…Seems like the least he deserves.

Now that it’s been 5 years since college, they’re all a lot more free to pursue the things that strike their fancy.  And they generally aren’t doing that by graduating at the bottom of their class and then continuing to fail at the career they didn’t want.

My impression from those interviews wasn’t that McCain didn’t want to join the Navy…..just that he didn’t want to do it through Annapolis. 

Moreover, although some would consider McCain’s Naval career to be a failure because he didn’t make admiral like his father and grandfather, the fact he ended his 22 year naval career as a Naval Captain of the line meant his overall career was ok-satisfactory….and I say that only because his family connections did provide some substantial help along the way. 

If it was Joe Schmoe who graduated at the bottom 5 of his class and even made it to the rank of commander of the line (one rank below Naval Captain) in 22 years, that would have been considered by most of the military vets I knew as someone who has had a good to outstanding Naval career. 

As for the difference between a Federal military academies and civilian schools, there is someone from my high school graduating class who after spending several years as an enlisted soldier during the mid-late 90’s….managed to gain admission to West Point through a special admission quota set aside for enlisted soldiers. 

Unfortunately for him, he was found academically deficient after 1 year and was tossed out.  Though his grades were around the 1.0 range at West Point, he somehow managed to gain admission to a respectable university and graduate with B/B+ grades within 4 years. 

Moreover, just because someone graduated from the bottom of their university class may not necessarily mean they are lacking in intelligence or incapable of excelling. 

Had an older classmate who was a mediocre C+/B- level undergrad who after somehow gaining admission to Columbia University’s School of International Relations to do a Masters had no problems maintaining straight-As in all his classes.  He was, however, confused at the attitudes of fellow grad students who were grousing about weekly reading loads of ~300 pages/class when that was the standard reading load in our intro and mid-level undergrad courses at our college.  Considering how he was as an undergrad, it was amusing to hear him rant “WTF?!! Did they actually expect to go through grad school without doing any substantial work?!!!”

\“constant crashing of planes???\”

Are you a moron? The assertion that McCain crashed 5 planes is an obvious lie.

\“In short: McCain’s low class standing does not in itself necessarily mean he is unintelligent…....his subsequent actions….especially during his 26 year political career provide more than enough proof\”

If only you were in a position to judge, Gomer.

If only you were in a position to judge, Gomer.

As a citizen and a voter….I actually am in a position to judge.  Got a problem with that, buster?

I only have a problem with the incurably stupid, i.e., liberals. Your opinion on John McCain\‘s intelligence and a dime would not get me a gumball from a gumball machine.

Are you a moron? The assertion that McCain crashed 5 planes is an obvious lie.

Yes, exholt is wrong:  McCain only crashed four planes, not five.  So she’s off by one.

Not that facts will change your mind.

Yes, exholt is wrong:  McCain only crashed four planes, not five.  So she’s off by one.

I wasn’t the one making the comments about McCain’s crashed airplanes.

I only have a problem with the incurably stupid, i.e., liberals. Your opinion on John McCain\’s intelligence and a dime would not get me a gumball from a gumball machine.

Your comment along with the entire world’s money supply won’t be enough to bail out Bear Sterns, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Lehman Brothers, and any other financial institution which may go bust in the next few years…......

Mnemosyne,

Read that again. Or, more appropriately, have it read to you. Plane being hit by a missile on deck != crash. McCain lost two due to engine failure and one when he was shot down. I\‘d like to see your sorry ass do better. If your views on jurisprudence are any indication, you wouldn\‘t get off the deck of the aircraft carrier.

(By the way, I already know you are stupid from your Prop 8 opining. There is no need to beat the point into the ground.)

What is the sound of one troll flapping?

Ostiarius, go get back to your “research” into “perversity”.  You still got a lot of porn sites to cover before your work is done tonight.

...oh, so you’re a bigot too.  Gee, that’s really surprising…ho hum

And a budybody with such a dull life that s(he) feels the need to mind what other peoples’ personal relationships and cannot mind his/her damned business…....