I’d have to tell the press, “I don’t care if he names her, I just don’t want him to have her paternity tested…”

Then again, it has always seemed strange to me that our culture gives the naming rights to the parent who has not had another person taken out of their body in the past 24 hours in a haze of blood and pain.

I’m not sure they exactly do that; I just think they assume that the parents will work something out, and that no one has ever considered the possibility that a father could be such a fucking jackass.

This is exactly why women shouldn’t fuck Republicans, even if they themselves are Republican.

On a related note, I saw my first “Sarah!” bumper sticker this morning. Sigh…

I wonder if he’ll get visitation rights after the divorce?

I’m betting he won’t want them after she goes down to City Hall and changes the girl’s name back.

That he’s so self-absorbed that he thinks that it’s his sacrifice, not his poor daughter’s, made against her will no less.

Oh please.  Against her will?  It’s a baby.  You could call it Hashbrown McFantasticPants and it probably won’t mind until it’s at least 3 years old.  If picking stupid baby names was some sort of crime, Sarah Palin would have to be thrown in jail on principle.  She’d get to share a cell with Angelina Jolie, Tom Cruise, and every self-proclaimed hippie or overly enthusiastic pregnant Star Wars nerd.  Not to mention the Chinese.

There was a girl born in Idaho a few weeks ago named Palin Brinli Somethingorother.  And we thought Track and Trig were bad.

When my daughter was born a few decades ago in Tennessee, my husband had to actually appear and certify to some bureaucrat that he agreed to my giving her a hyphenated last name—rather than just his.  It seems odd that Dad and not Mom gets to give the first name. 

But this sort of fundamental disrespect for a woman who just brought a child into the world seems sort of a core value for a considerable demographic.  After all the wife and child are just chattel.

Ugh.  Yet another reason this election makes me want to change my name. 

(My name IRL is Sara…)

I should go with Hussein.  Yes, totally.  Thanks to that jackass Sarah Palin, I have been moved to change my name to Hussein.

Nothing to add re the patriarchal tradition of fathers having a disproportionate say in the names of children they didn’t even have to house in their body.  Just ugh.

Few people pick their own names, but it’s a parent’s duty to pick one that’s not going to be a burden for the child, don’t you think?

Yeah.  Naming your child “Sarah” will definitely cripple her for life.  I’ll be sending condolences to my next door neighbor, my coworker, and my second cousin, because they’ve already suffered so much.

I’m with Rick Massimo on this one.  Plenty of children have ended up with totally stoopid names given to them by both parents.

I don’t know what part of the country you’re from, Rick, but in mine, most people have their father’s last name, even if their own mother doesn’t share it.

I guess that’s true. It isn’t in my case, so I forgot.

Anybody else reminded of “Ronald-Anne” from “Bloom County”?

I’m with Rick Massimo on this one.  Plenty of children have ended up with totally stoopid names given to them by both parents.

Uh, I don’t think that’s what I meant.

it’s a parent’s duty to pick one that’s not going to be a burden for the child, don’t you think?

On the other hand, as obnoxious as I think this is, so the girl’s name is Sarah McCain Palin RealLastName?  I’m sure there are other Geraldine Ferraros and Jack Kemps running around, to no real detriment (aside from the fact that “Geralidine” is kind of a crappy name.)

Zifnab, the guy is using his daughter as a campaign bumper sticker against his wife’s wishes, and he thinks he’s the one who “took one for the cause”.  How is he anything other than an asshole, and why do you feel the need to defend him?

Zifnab, the guy is using his daughter as a campaign bumper sticker against his wife’s wishes, and he thinks he’s the one who “took one for the cause”.

I’d like to know what that guy even thinks he’s “taking” for the cause.

How is he anything other than an asshole, and why do you feel the need to defend him?

I’ve known friends who were named after Soup Opera characters.  I’ve known friends who were named “Kennedy” or “Reagen” because their parents simply adored a given President.  I’ve known friends who were named after parents and grandparents for similar reasons.  The father named his daughter without asking his wife first - that’s a dumb move on his part for very personal reasons.  I don’t think I have to explain why.

That said, he’s not taping the baby to the back of his car.  It’s just a name.  If he proceeds to drag the newborn child around on a whirlwind campaign tour or abducts it from its mother to offer up as a media prop to the McCain campaign for the next month, then yeah, that’s bad.  But for vastly intensified reasons.

Are you going to go ballistic on every black boy named “Barack” in the next eight years?  How about every black kid named “Martin Luther” during the 60s?  ZOMG!  Oh noes!

I’m not defending anything more than a board commentator’s right to laugh at the sort of meaningless hysterics you’d expect out of K-Lo or Stalkin Malkin.

I don’t even know how the whole naming process works legally and I went through it less than 2 years ago. I just remember the nurses asking me what our son’s name was and then that was that. I think there was some form we had to send in later (hours later in our case). The whole time was such a blur and naming was something we had agreed on months earlier. At a guess, this asshole sent in the form without talking to his wife.
Alternatively, he could have just told the nurses and the press of his decision and the official form hasn’t been sent in yet. Fortunately this poor girl is unlikely to know who she’s named after for a long time and the embarrassment will likely be fleeting. Like some boy named Robert Kemp Dole or Daniel Bush Qualye. Sarah (“laughter” or “she laughs”) is a fine name, there just needs to be some positive role model to eliminate the taint caused by the Bible Spice.

Zfinab25:

When his daughter grows up and finds out who she is named after, unless she is as crazy as the wingnuts, she’ll most likely be pretty outraged and disgusted.  And then she’ll change her name.

Shite, Amanda, I (or any other honest gentleman who posts or has posted at Pandagon) would need a counter with the capacity of the national debt clock to count the number of times my better half made unilateral decisions in our relationship. Of course, there are also those decisions that, though a fait accompli, we guys are given the opportunity to either nobly agree with or voice some amount of disapproval before ... we do what our gals tell us to. Not the worst state of affairs, eh? I’m so curious, though, Amanda as to the personal experiences that have shaped your particularly keen anti-male stance (sure, there’s infantilization and objectification to deal with). But what’s the tipping point at which you’d be satisfied that the scales were balanced between the genders? Any other women want to comment on that? I’m most interested ... what’s the ideal state of affairs by which the genders would be on par? Should all gender roles cease to exist? Or, better yet, we seek to be sensitive to each other’s needs and gender/genetic tendencies (can of worms, that) without impugning those characteristics outright?

Zif, I can’t speak for Amanda, but the source of my annoyance is more at the fact that he seems to regard the action of naming his daughter something that ties in with current politics of the moment as an political act, worthy of media coverage, on par with making a significant campaign contribution (more noteworthy, actually, since plenty of people make the max individual contribution and don’t hold a press conference about it).

The clippings from this are going to be cut out and pasted into the baby book, and this girl is going to be reminded how she got her name at every chance.  While, depending on the part of the country and the political persuasion of the rest of her family, it might not be directly humiliating, god forbid she grows up to be liberal.  About which, I’d bet money that half the reason she’s been saddled with the name is because of the assumption in certain more patriarchal circles that a girl will vote the same as her father until she gets married, and then she’ll vote the same as her husband, who will ideally have been vetted by her husband on these matters.  He’s branding her Property Of Republicans every bit as much as if he’d had her tattooed with the GOP elephant.

When his daughter grows up and finds out who she is named after, unless she is as crazy as the wingnuts, she’ll most likely be pretty outraged and disgusted.  And then she’ll change her name.

At which point we can all declare “Problem Solved” and rest assured that the system works.

His daughter’s future annoyance at him?  It’s so annoying when the chattel get mouthy.

I forgot what a burden it is being an asshole.

I am curious to find out, of those born to married straight couples, which parent picked your first name.

My mother suggested it, after her youngest brother. My father said OK as long as they could figure out a good shortening, as they thought “Richard” and “Rick” were too grownup, and “Dick” was, well, you know. Ricky Nelson came on the TV and that was it. Of course, that meant my mother called me “Ricky” until I was 16, when I fixed her with one of those withering teenage glares.

As for my own son, it was a name my then-wife (actually we weren’t married yet) had suggested months previously which I hadn’t liked. We went to the hospital still without a name (we knew the gender), and we just trusted in the Flying Spaghetti Monster that when he popped out we’d know. And when he did, the name I had rejected months previously was just obviously perfect, so the next day I said “How about if we go back to that?” About 30 seconds’ thought went into his middle name; she came up with something that made a cool rhythm with his first name, so we went with it.

Is it true that most children are named by their father, or his wishes take priority? My family is very much typical Indiana red-staters and I’ve never heard any of them express the idea that it should be the father’s choice. There’s plenty of the attitude that women should defer to their husbands but this isn’t one of those things where I see it. Then again, these people are such stereotypes of Midwestern practicalism that a decent portion are athiest at this point and even the most God-fearing have no patience for born-agains. (I think it has to do with a general distaste for sharing emotions or other deeply personal things.)

Anyway, in my immediate family Mom named three of us and she allowed my Dad to name me. I was to be Ezekiel but Mom vetoed that. I still ended up with something highly biblical. But Mom didn’t want a “Zeke”.

I suspect that they just give the birth certificate to new parents and let them hash it out, and that there’s no laws stating either parent’s veto rights.

That’s how they do it in Iowa at least - they give you a blank birth certificate application when you check into the hospital and ask you to turn it in before you check out.

“That said, he’s not taping the baby to the back of his car.”

No, he’s just holding her up in front of the news cameras.

This dude got a SERIOUS talking to, you better believe it.  He’s going to be taking alot more than one for the team….

Idiot.

That it would even enter his mind to pull this without telling his wife… Holy Crap. Ho. ly. crap.

One of my couple-friends is expecting their second little girl right after Election Day. I am seriously not kidding that I suggested to them this summer to name her Barack Hussein Obama (their last name), right when the polls were neck-in-neck (they’re both Democrats, or at least rabid anti-Republicans, at least).

I was then hoping that the one good thing out of an Obama loss, which now looks to be a 5.5% chance on Fivethirtyeight.com, would be their future-scolding of the little girl, using her full name: “Barack Hussein Obama, I’m VERY disappointed in you!”

But they’re going with something boring and probably unisex, like Futon.

Zif, I can’t speak for Amanda, but the source of my annoyance is more at the fact that he seems to regard the action of naming his daughter something that ties in with current politics of the moment as an political act, worthy of media coverage, on par with making a significant campaign contribution (more noteworthy, actually, since plenty of people make the max individual contribution and don’t hold a press conference about it).

I won’t deny that it’s shallow and dumb.  I just don’t see it as the brutal child abuse the initial post makes it out to be.

And if you’re honestly surprised that a parent would want his child to conform to his political beliefs.  DUH!  No kidding!  At this point, you’re just complaining about the idea that conservative parents might try to raise conservative kids.  At which point… I mean… where do we go?  You were expecting he would take her to the next Burning Man and raise her a flower power hippie?

Is it true that most children are named by their father, or his wishes take priority?

I guess this is anecdata, but my dad apparently had veto power .  I was supposedly going to be Leah, but my dad thought people would think we were Star Wars geeks* or something (even though, of course, Leah is a perfectly normal biblical name - it’s not like my mom suggested C3p0 or Boba Fett). 

* My mom was pregnant when (I believe) The Empire Strikes Back came out.

And if you’re honestly surprised that a parent would want his child to conform to his political beliefs.  DUH!  No kidding!  At this point, you’re just complaining about the idea that conservative parents might try to raise conservative kids.

Uhhh, is it really that hard to believe that I want people to be able to make up their own minds about politics, for themselves, rather than being claimed for one party or another at birth?  I’m equally annoyed at those people who got their kids to form a choir singing sappy songs about Obama, which they taped and spread around on YouTube.  And at least they’re old enough to voice an opinion on the matter.

Well, that doesn’t really answer the question, Miss A. I suppose your dismissiveness is an example of the level of dialogue we might expect if your gang capture the Oval Office.

One of my couple-friends is expecting their second little girl right after Election Day.

I have to say that it wouldn’t surprise me to see a blip in the popularity of the name Hillary for 2007 and 2008.

I’m not defending anything more than a board commentator’s right to laugh at the sort of meaningless hysterics you’d expect out of K-Lo or Stalkin Malkin.

1) Your definition of “hysterics” must really differ from mine, because what I saw before you Stepped In to Set Us Straight was mostly mockery. 

2) You really think the mockery this waste of skin was receiving is equal to one of Malkin’s Stalkin projects?  Seriously?

3) Did you actually read the entirety of the sentence that bothers you so much?  Seems to me that the point was the insignificance of the father’s “sacrifice” - or rather, that he’d made no “sacrifice” at all - rather than the horror of the daughter’s.  Though, at the risk of being deemed “hysterical”, it would really suck to be saddled with these two losers’ names (yes, John and Sarah are common enough names, but throwing in the “McCain Palin”).  That can’t be an auspicious start to someone’s life.

You misread me. I assume no male privilege ... and the strong, independent woman I married precisely for her strength and independence, I think, bears that out. I was merely “reaching across the aisle,” as it were ...

Zifnab, what the heck is up with that jab at the Chinese?

Zifnab25 writes: Are you going to go ballistic on every black boy named “Barack” in the next eight years?  How about every black kid named “Martin Luther” during the 60s?  ZOMG!  Oh noes!

The initial post summed up quite well what´s wrong here, and it is a lot more than naming a child after a contemporary politician: disrespecting the mother´s wishes and concerns for her child, and the inequality of not having both parents approve of the vital record. And yes, I think it is wrong to enlist a child in a political project she may not come to share, just as I think it would be wrong to name a child ¨Barack Obama¨ for the same reason. Maybe it is not such a big deal, since the child could change her name later. But the selfishness of this father is incredible.

That baby does not look happy and I don’t blame her.

Naming a child after politicians is nothing new, whether the parents admire that person or just think the name is cool varies.  What bothers me about this is his statement that he “took one for the cause” and did this against his wife’s wishes.  First, naming his daughter after McCain and Palin will not help the Republican campaign in any way, and he’s stupid to think so.  Second, as far as I know, most couples select children’s names together.  One parent does not have a right to do so over the other.

I did see a quote from Palin that her husband chose and put the name on the birth certificate of their daughter Piper without consulting with her first.  I guess that happens in some families, but I would be pissed beyond words if my husband did that to me.

When I first heard about the name, I just rolled my eyes and said “c’est la vie,” but I hadn’t heard the part Amanda highlighted here.  What an ass.

I am curious to find out, of those born to married straight couples, which parent picked your first name.

I think they both had a pretty big say in it and had floated around a lot of names.  My mother had pushed for “Frances Nicole” after her cousin Frank, who died while she was pregnant. (Variations of Nicholas are big on her side of the family too; it was her father’s name.) After I was born, my dad (I think?) convinced her to switch it to the more traditional Nicole Frances.

My parents picked out my and my sister’s first names more or less together, I think my father didn’t really have much of a preference as long as it wasn’t something weird/stupid.  My parents weren’t yet married when I was born and she said she thought about giving me her last name but my dad threw a fit.

I very much think that birth certificates should only be submitted by mothers for the same reason that babies should get mothers’ last names.

Anyone ever hear the story of Milton Bradley (the baseball player, not the toy company).  From his Wikipedia entry:

“Bradley is named after his father, Milton Bradley, Sr., who filled out the birth certificate form without his wife’s permission. As Milton’s mother says of his father, “He wanted a Junior, and made damn sure he got one.”[1] He has always been teased about his name, but has never changed it because the memories it evokes, “only drive him harder”.[2]”

This is a really fascinating question.  My kids are under 3 and I have no idea - we had the names picked out in advance and, more importantly, my husband isn’t a jackass.  A hospital admin of some kind showed up in our room, filled out the form, brought back the typed version a couple of hours later so we could check it for errors and sign it, then filed it for us.

I asked my mother, who is a lawyer here in Florida, about the legal ramifications.  She wasn’t sure there are any and had never heard of it being a problem (that reached the courts).  In theory, she said that if it did come to that the courts would probably side with the mother, as her relationship to the child can be proven without DNA testing.  And if the parents aren’t married, the mother’s wishes supersede.

I have the first name my mother picked out (and her maiden name for a middle).  Dad wasn’t crazy about it but couldn’t come up with an acceptable alternative; the only name he really liked happened to be the name of my mother’s childhood pet.  My kids’ names are compromises, though my husband deferred to me quite a bit more than I did to him.

My husband and his sister were named by their father while their mother was still recovering from labor, though I’m sure nothing official was done without her consent.  They’d had a short list, but he announced that he’d come up with the perfect names that weren’t on it.  Their names are completely normal, though they have the same initials (bad for video game scores!) and kind of rhyme.  My mother-in-law is fine with the names, but still sounds a little bewildered when she tells this story 30 years on.  Oh, and my husband and his sister aren’t twins - their dad pulled this stunt on two separate occasions.

I’d kill him.

My husband and I spent months discussing names before our babies were born.  We had a lot of fun.  I rejected Wolfgang - unless he agreed to raise the kids in Austria.  He rejected anything he thought sounded like it came from a romance novel (which I don’t tend to read).  We tossed around first and middle name combinations to make sure we liked the flow of the name.  We had already decided that the kids would have my last name, as he isn’t fond of his and my dad had no sons.  The boys have my husband’s last name as their second middle name, so if they wish to use it (hyphenated or not) they don’t have to do a legal change.  Obviously, we put a lot of thought into naming the boys.  Then again, we have a relationship based on mutual respect and love, so it’s nothing like what is described in that story.  I’d be surprised if divorcing him is all that woman does in retribution.

I was supposedly going to be Leah, but my dad thought people would think we were Star Wars geeks* or something

Hee.  My legal first name is Leah, though I haven’t used it since high school.  Episode 4 was still in theaters when I was born, and to this day my mother gets pissy when people assume I was named after Princess Leia.  (And of course, I did turn out to be a huge Star Wars nerd.)

I have to admit, I’ve psuedo-threatened my wife with getting the name done before her drugs wear off.  Basically, I feel any spawn of ours (Please God, gods, semi-anthropomorphic beings, physical laws of the universe, or other: NO) should carry her last name; she is concerned that without said spawn having my last name hospitals will not let me see him/her/it - I keep telling her the fact I’d be strangling any such nurse or doctor that denied me access to my kid would pretty much establish I was kin, but she insists.  Way I figure it: her utuerus, her surname.

AS far as how is this different than naming a kid “Barack”: Naming a kid after someone who did something positive and interesting is seen as honoring that person.  Naming you kid after McCain and Pain is like naming your kid Adolf Mussolini Tojo would have been 50 years ago.  “I want my daughter named after two people who decided turning a Presindential election into a KKK rally, and decided that the best way to govern the US is to try and turn it into some theocratic dictatorship of stupid” means you hate your child - you hate a couple-gour-old being who will carry your DNA onto future generations and to which you should express at least some biological desire for its well-being even if you are incapable of loving it as a human being.  This guy not only considers his daughter chattel poperty, but actively has declared his hatred of said property from the get go; other species kill these sorts of parents - we, of course, will let him keep breathing and keep breeding, Darwin weeps.

My parents who were never married, have conflicting stories on how my name came about. They each claim responsibility for it. My mother also claims that my dad was dating a woman with my name at the time that I was born. Weird.

My first name is Daisy. People always think its a nickname. My dad does have it tattooed on his arm. I don’t know if its for me or the girlfriend.

I was actually going to try to tell a story about this tonight at a storytelling show.

Zifnab, what the heck is up with that jab at the Chinese?

No jab, really.  If you translate Chinese names into English, many of them are directly equivalent to English words like “Summer” or “Apple” or “Strong Man” or “Happiness”.  If you named your daughter “Happiness”, you’d get the same strange looks from people who give strange looks to Madonna and Palin for their name choices.

Okay, recent personal experience. When our daughter was born five days ago, the nurse handed me the stack of papers and told us “make sure you’re on the same page as far as names go, and make sure I get this before you check out of the hospital.” We already had names worked out, but they were all premised on the belief that our child was a boy. So I waited until Ms. F was coherent enough after the C-section and we talked about it, and half an hour later we were set. But of course I don’t regard my wife or daughter as my property, so there wasn’t that barrier to overcome.

Crimeny, what an ass. 

Re: who picked names—I’m not sure, but I think my dad came up with mine (Jaime), my mother at least spelled my brother’s, so I think she though it up too (Mathew—that’s right, with one t), and I, at age 5, came up with my sister’s name (Emily), cause my parents were out of ideas.

My son is 21, and was born in Massachusetts. They brought *me* the birth certificate to fill out, his father was not asked for his opinion. In our case, we’d agreed on the name ahead of time, but I could have named him anything I wanted to. It was up to the mom, not the dad.

If you translate Chinese names into English, many of them are directly equivalent to English words like “Summer” or “Apple” or “Strong Man” or “Happiness”.

That is true in many languages and of most traditional Anglo names.  We (people with Anglo names) just don’t usually bother with the translations.  The name Kofi, as in Kofi Annan, means Friday.  The name Olivia derives from the Greek for olive tree.

Shite, Amanda, I (or any other honest gentleman who posts or has posted at Pandagon) would need a counter with the capacity of the national debt clock to count the number of times my better half made unilateral decisions in our relationship.

Like what to name your child, knowing that the other partner wanted something else, and without consulting them on something that will likely be a permanent matter?  I wouldn’t be surprised, frankly.

Of course, there are also those decisions that, though a fait accompli, we guys are given the opportunity to either nobly agree with or voice some amount of disapproval before ... we do what our gals tell us to.

Aw, shucks, you guys know we gals just let you think you’re runnin’ things, when we’re the ones with the pussy, after all.

Not the worst state of affairs, eh?

Having been in a relationship where the guy thought that I ran it simply because I opened my mouth sometimes, inbetween his hitting me, I have my doubts every time I hear a guy giving this smiling explanation that the wife is really the power behind the power, like, if they have got to have power at all, it needs to be quiet and unacknowledged.

I’m so curious, though, Amanda as to the personal experiences that have shaped your particularly keen anti-male stance (sure, there’s infantilization and objectification to deal with).

Oh, you mean like being asked obvious questions like this?  And why is it that you take the idea that women actually should get a say in things like, say, naming the person they JUST FRAKKING GAVE BIRTH TO as being anti-male?  Why, he allowed her to fill herself with his seed, and so he deserves the honor of naming the child since the bitch got the pleasure of carrying his kid!

But what’s the tipping point at which you’d be satisfied that the scales were balanced between the genders? Any other women want to comment on that? I’m most interested ... what’s the ideal state of affairs by which the genders would be on par? Should all gender roles cease to exist?

Yes.  Yes, they should.  Gender is something much more complex than what two chromosomes you happen to have.  People should be allowed to behave in a way with which they are comfortable, regardless of the sex they were born with, and that will lead to much more functional relationships.

He says:

Or, better yet, we seek to be sensitive to each other’s needs and gender/genetic tendencies (can of worms, that) without impugning those characteristics outright?

He means: I know what your tendencies are because you’re a chick, so shut up while I tell you what they are so that you can conform to them and I can be sensitive to them.

Douchebag.

Amanda won’t play, and I don’t blame her, but someone is wrong on the internet, and that must be addressed.

I am curious to find out, of those born to married straight couples, which parent picked your first name.  My dad picked mine and my sister’s names, as far as I know, and my mom’s main thing was making sure they weren’t too plain, like Ann or Mary.

The nuns at the hospital picked my name out.  My parents wanted to call me “Peggy Sue”.  The nuns hollered that I had to have a saint’s name.  I wound up “Margaret Susanne”.  Which, actually, I rather like, and it will suit me when I’m 90 years old and need something dignified.   My mother named my brother “George William II”, after my paternal great-grandfather, because she had adored him.  My father named my other brother “Alec Paul”, after Sir Alec Guinness and my great uncle Paul.

For my own children, hubby and I didn’t have any problem agreeing on names.  Our firstborn was going to be named Alex, regardless of sex.  He’s “Alexander Martin”.  Had he been she, the name would have been “Alexandria Diana”.  The youngest is “Ernest Edward III”, after his paternal grandfather and great-grandfather, because we believe the world needs more Ernies.  Had we had a daughter, her name would have been “Hildah Elisabeth”, after my paternal great-grandmother, who was the single most influential woman in my life.  She was tough as nails and super smart, and even though she’s been gone more than 20 years, is still my number one role model.

In Canada the mothers signature on the birth forms is a necessity and the fathers is not.  I could have named our children whatever I wanted without any input from their father.  It is a matter of respect for him that I allowed him to sign the paperwork on our children. 
In Antigua where my family is from the naming of the child is strictly the authority of the father.  This is why my mother and her eight sisters have the same first name today.  I bring this up not to say that when men are given the power that they immediately become idiots it just seems to me that one sex is given power over another there is always a potential for abuse of said power.
The issue is not what he names the child but that he felt that he did not have to consult with her mother.

I’m at that age where everyone I know is having babies, and I don’t know anyone for whom naming wasn’t a huge collaborative effort with negotiating and compromises and brainstorming. Even amongst my more conservative friends, or the ones who belong to male-dominated religions, the women got a major say in naming the babies. Babies are, after all, within a woman’s sphere of influence even in women-repressing cultures.

But then, even amongst my more conservative friends, none of the men are jackasses.

When my son was born, someone from the hospital brought me a form to fill out while my husband was at home sleeping (in preparation for staying up all night with the baby while I slept). They brought it back and we both had to sign it.

I don’t see how this could have been done without the mother’s signature. It’s certainly possible for the father not to sign, but the mother?

If you translate Chinese names into English, many of them are directly equivalent to English words like “Summer” or “Apple” or “Strong Man” or “Happiness”.  If you named your daughter “Happiness”, you’d get the same strange looks from people who give strange looks to Madonna and Palin for their name choices.

Which is still extremely silly, considering that American/Western names translate into similar things.  They’re just a little more obscured because a few different languages of origin are common (mainly via Hebrew and Greek’s influence on Christian scripture), and even if you have an English-origin name, our language has changed a lot over the last thousand years or so. 

Not to mention that there are plenty of common names in Anglo culture which do have direct and literal meanings.  Not many people think it’s gauche to name your child Constance or Pearl, for instance.  (Leaving aside names that are considered somewhat gauche, like Destiny and Amber)  Growing up in Francophone Louisiana, names like Amie (“friend”), Angelle (“angel”), and Desiree (“desired”) were popular.

It’s really not that easy to change your name.  Even if you do it under a socially acceptable circumstance (getting married), it’s like paperwork hell.

Yes, and there are a few states (NC, MT) where, if you want to change your name back to your maiden name but there is not a divorce decree, they will not let you.  I had to have my husband’s last name for three years after we separated before finally getting it changed this year (strangely, in TX).  I am never getting married again because of that stark view of how the state REALLY views my personal rights.

My parents both picked my name.  My son’s name was agreed upon, and is his paternal grandfather’s name.  My daughter has a different, absent father, and she has my last name - the only contribution is that her middle name is that of her paternal great-grandmother and, as heritage is important to me, that is fine.  My boyfriend and I have discussed his adopting her in the distant future, and, when my mother asked about that, she said, “Oh, well, she’d have his last name then!”  And I quickly corrected her.  He may be a father-figure to her, but she is mine.  I also have strong feelings because, technically, my father was supposed to be the last person to die with his name, and then I took it back and gave it to my daughter, and, if I raise her right, she’ll make her own choice (and, I hope, pass it on).

To give a common-sense analysis of it, that used to be more commonplace, “The child should be named after the mother, because you can never be sure of the father, but the mother - ah!  Now, that is a certain fact.”  DNA testing may have made that more obscure, but, as far as I’m concerned, it’s a choice you make together.

Am I the only one hoping that young Sarah grows up to be a happy, well-adjusted 2028 (yikes) equivalent of today’s, say, Goth lesbian, or whatever else would ram it home right beside the stick in this guy’s ass?

I sincerely hope that Sarah Palin goes down in history as an odd footnote, hopefully one associated with the End of the Republican Party As We Know It. Either way, twenty years from now, I think it fairly likely that people’s response will be “That sounds familiar” rather than anything else.

Considering that she was going to be saddled with “Ava Grace,” I think she may be grateful for the Sarah as the years roll on.

Ah well, she can always go by “Spike.”

I think the norm (in this time and place) is for the parents to discuss names during the pregnancy/pre-child time (kids get adopted too, after all), and to come to some agreement about it, worked out on whatever logic of rights/power/compromise seems to work for their particular relationship.  I’m sure there are some families in which the father makes the end-all be-all decision, but in most of the families I’ve seen it seems as though the parents keep offering suggestions until either they come up with something that seems agreeable to both, or something changes so that the preferred name of one ends up getting chosen (like the above example that ‘it just seemed to fit’ when the child was born.) 

Anyway, the point I wanted to make was that generally speaking, in contemporary US society the general pattern seems to be that both parents (when both are involved with the pregnancy/birth/adoption—obviously this isn’t the case for other kinds of families) have some input regarding the child’s name.  So I’d agree with Amanda’s argument above that it’s quite strange for the father to simply name the child all on his own, and to choose a name against the express wishes of the mother.  Sure, people choose ‘strange’ names for their kids all the time; but what’s really odd here is that the father apparently didn’t care what the mother thought about her child’s name.

I (or any other honest gentleman who posts or has posted at Pandagon) would need a counter with the capacity of the national debt clock to count the number of times my better half made unilateral decisions in our relationship.

This is only relevant if her unilateral decisions involve “big things” – like, for example, a credit commitment to buying a certain car, or a big-ticket purchase at the local furniture store.

If your wife is making decisions like that without your input, she’s wrong – about as wrong as she would be if she saddled your next spawn with the name “Barak Biden Obama SugarRayPepublican” without your input.

You see the problem here, Sug? Dude punk’d his own wife.

Of course, there are also those decisions that, though a fait accompli, we guys are given the opportunity to either nobly agree with or voice some amount of disapproval before ... we do what our gals tell us to.

Aw, now that’s cute. You took your grandpappy’s advice and always let the little woman think she’s right, thereby freeing you to make the manly decisions without the distraction of her incessant nagging.

OR you’re serious, and you’re henpecked, and your wife is a controlling harpy to whom you always accede out of fear or laziness.

Either way, it’s bullshit.

But what’s the tipping point at which you’d be satisfied that the scales were balanced between the genders?

I’m a woman, and I want to comment on that: Start with the belief that gender is merely a subset of broader humanity, and assume from there that both men and women are human beings, alike in rights and dignity.

If something is hateful to yourself – e.g., the denial of opportunities before you’re even permitted to take the test; a denial of privacy and autonomy – don’t do to other people (including women).

This has fuck all to do with trying to erase “gender distinctions” or whatever other bogeyman anti-feminists have created to obfuscate the truth that simple fairness is the backbone of most feminist thought.

Smell what I’m cookin’, Sug?

My five siblings and myself are all named after family members of previous generations.  My (only) brother is named for my dad, but if he had been a girl, he would have been Cynthia Rose.  We used to torment him with that name if we were annoyed (“Hey, Cynthia...”).  Now that he’s in his late 30’s and 6’3”, he finds it more amusing.

When my now-ex and I were looking for names for our daughter, we went through family genealogy books for names that had family history.  To be honest, though, part of the reason I named her Katherine was because the image of Katharine Hepburn as being a strong independent woman was what I wanted her to aspire to be.  And she is…..

It’s true that Chinese names (and names in many other Asian cultures) follow a looser tradition than Western names; you can basically name your kid any combination of one or two syllables, although you really have to come from the culture to understand how this works and how not to come up with a name that sounds wrong.  But to interpret this as “Chinese people give their kids stupid names, just like hippies” is…I have no words.

I know a girl named Leia whose parents did name her after “Star Wars”!  She seems to have adjusted okay.

Oh, and of the many sad and hilarious things about this story, one of the saddest is that the name the wife picked is really nice.

I am curious to find out, of those born to married straight couples, which parent picked your first name.

My mom did mine, my dad did my brother. I suppose that’s maybe why some/most (I don’t know the stats) straight couples have two kids?
Mom found mine in a baby book- she didn’t want to name me until she saw me and I’m glad I’m named something somewhat unique… there were a million Jennifers where I grew up. Not that it’s a bad name mind you- but in a very small class having Jennifer C. Jennifer B. Jennifer W…. etc. is rather repetitive.

You misread me. I assume no male privilege ... and the strong, independent woman I married precisely for her strength and independence, I think, bears that out.

So strong and independent, indeed, that she’s perfectly happy to allow you to roll in here and speak on her behalf. Yeah, that’s real independence.

I’m still boggling about this comment:
Mark Ciptak of Tennessee says he picked the name to “get the word out” for McCain-Palin

Um…OK…how exactly is naming your child after a candidate going to “get the word out”, exactly? If he said “as a cheap publicity stunt”, it would make more sense. But what “word” is getting out?

But what “word” is getting out?

That he’s an attention-whoring tool with no respect for his wife and daughter, of course.

here were a million Jennifers where I grew up. Not that it’s a bad name mind you- but in a very small class having Jennifer C. Jennifer B. Jennifer W…. etc. is rather repetitive.

Yes.  Why, yes, it is.  ::sighs::  However, I like my name.  I was originally going to be a Jenny (I was named after a family friend), but my father (bless him) thought maybe I could just go by the diminutive but carry the full name…just in case.  I was one of four Jennys in each of my classes until second grade, when I cut it and wanted go to by my full name (one tidbit from birth order psych is that often first-borns and onlies - I’m an only - don’t like to go by cutesy diminutives like that; I go by Jen).  Plus, as my daughter is named Morgan, we both have names from Arthurian legend, although I did not think about my roots in that when I named her.  (However, The Mists of Avalon is my favorite book, and I did name her because I love how strong her character is - and, actually, hearkening back to the other thread, Morgaine was, technically, an INTJ princess, so I stand corrected by myself.)

And, as an interesting bit with that, at first a lot of people, both before and after I had her, asked me why I was naming her a boy name, to which I would generally fume incoherently (had they not at least heard of Morgan Fairchild, much less the first famous one?).  However, I was at a restaurant when she was maybe a month old, and this lady who was serving me had a clearly Eastern European accent.  She told me what a beautiful baby I had and asked me what her name was, and I told her.  She said, “Is not always bad to be a witch.”  (I also was clearly wearing my pentacle at the time.)  I asked her how she figured, and she said, “Morgan la Fey - we are taught these things as children in Ukraine.”  And smiled at me.

That still makes me grin, because people usually manage to miss that.

Summer is a great first name.

I love the guys who pretend that the ‘better half’ calls all the shots. What they mean, of course, is that they defer to her on things that don’t matter (like the kitchen decor) and pretend to defer to her when it’s preferable to listening to her tedious feminine yapping.

You just know how much they’d ‘defer’ if Wifey decided to name their daughter Gloria Steinem Motherslastname, don’t you?

My dad (who has a hit and miss record with feminist principles—he wanted me in Boy Scouts and he wanted me to pursue my art dreams, but he also argues with me about ERA and equal pay act) didn’t give me and my sisters middle names. He and my mother decided on the first names together, so the naming decision wasn’t completely unilateral, but my mom who has a middle name thought we should get one. My dad’s family has a tradition that girls don’t get middle names, because when they get married they get their middle name THEN. (BARF.)

Anyway, my little sister was so annoyed by this, that when she got married, she not only changed her name to her husband’s surname, she also axed our surname altogether and replaced it with an initial. My dad was reportedly very upset…(hah)...and I eventually consoled him with, “Well, I won’t get rid of the surname when I get married.” Dad: “Oh, I’m glad you’ll keep it as a maiden name.” Me: “Funny thing though. I’m not taking my husband’s name.” Dad: *quiet while he figures this one out*

Dad also had a conniption when I threatened to give my eldest male offspring (I don’t have any kids but I like to plan my family confrontations ahead of time) Zbigniew. (I really wouldn’t, but we had just had an argument about McCain and Lilly Ledbetter, so I wanted to pull his leg a bit.) 

My bf and I are thinking about having two kids incidentally, and first kid will be First Middle MyLast HisLast and the second will be First Middle HisLast MyLast. They can figure out what they want to do about their kids names when they have their own kids.

...

My jaw is still on the floor, btw, at the comment about how the honest men would admit their womenfolk often make unilateral decisions or are secretly the power behind the relationship. A) Healthy relationships are balanced, not one partner doing what the other says all the time. B) Any unilateral decision about major things that affect the relationship is not good. C) Unilateral decisions about small day-to-day issues don’t count, although admittedly we often consult each other just to make sure the other person doesn’t have a strong preference. My boyfriend calls me up to see if I want him to pick up Thai for dinner, I call him to see which brand of soap he prefers because he mentioned he liked a particular kind. We picked our own candidates and religious beliefs, but helpfully, those happen to be the same. We keep each other apprised when we make decisions, not because we can’t make one by ourselves, but we find it a point of consideration. If he were to name our kid something we hadn’t discussed, that would be a huge breach of our established agreement about how we treat each other.

I am curious to find out, of those born to married straight couples, which parent picked your first name.

My father had final say on both my and my brother’s middle names.  I’m pretty sure my mother chose both our first names, but my father insisted on the unusual spelling of mine (he didn’t like the association of “Christopher” with Christianity).

For my own son, my wife and I took a family name from each of our ancestral lines.  His first name happens to be the name from my side, but that was mainly because we liked the name, not out of any sense of paternal privilege.

I wonder if the mom can raise a big enough fuss to get it changed? If she didn’t sign it, it may be possible. If she signed it, it may be too late, but depending on when it was signed, it may not be ‘legal’ if she can argue that she was still under the influence of painkillers. If she hates it that much, it’s probably worth the effort. Even if she’s already resigned to Sarah (which is a good name), I’ve always been partial to the fallback method, where you can give 1 outtherebizarro name, say Shandalier. The second name is much less outtherebizarro, like Beth. That way, the kid’s got a choice if they absolutely hate it.

My parents staunchly maintain that my name and my younger bro’s were from their favorite authors, Mark Twain and Louisa May Alcott. My names come from one of Tom Sawyer’s girlfriends, and one of the sisters from Little Women. My brother is Mark. There are worse ways to get names, obviously.

Is it just me, or does this sound like something Peter Griffin on Family Guy would do?

What at thoughtless prick.  I doubt he gets to father another one.

Zifnab, so?

You just outed yourself as a cultural jingoist. Hah, those funny Chinese name their kids with positive or generally benign name meanings so obviously! That’s not right.

There’s a distant part of my dad’s family that married into a family called “Nixon” (no relation, AFAIK).  And one of them had a kid in 1969 and named him Richard M.

I’ve never met my fourth-cousin Richard M. Nixon (I only know of his existence on family trees), but I’ve always felt sorry for the guy.  Can you imagine growing up in the 1970s with that name?

  When his daughter grows up and finds out who she is named after, unless she is as crazy as the wingnuts, she’ll most likely be pretty outraged and disgusted.  And then she’ll change her name.

At which point we can all declare “Problem Solved” and rest assured that the system works.

Unless you’ve actually paid the several hundred dollars and changed your name as an adult after being saddled with the wrong one for 20+ years, shut your fucking mouth.

Ben, that’s especially interesting considering all the parallels between Nixon and Palin I noticed watching one of those American Experience documentaries about Nixon last night

We could definitely find ourselves in a political landscape where the name Sarah Palin isn’t just a Jeopardy! question but reviled in the same way his name is…

Unless you’ve actually paid the several hundred dollars and changed your name as an adult after being saddled with the wrong one for 20+ years, shut your fucking mouth.

Em, why do you hate men?

No, in all sincerity, I did that (although it had just been three years) with my tax return this year - it was my gift to myself.  When the judge granted me my name back, I burst into tears on my way back to the back of the courtroom, and this one lady gave me a thumbs-up.

my father favoured a popular girl’s name from a Donovan song

Qu’est-ce que tu fais, Jenny, mon amour?

Ranylt, he named you Ricki-Ticki-Tavi? That’s AWESOME!

Good for you, INT!  My mom considered it but ultimately decided no.  I don’t think most people realize what a hassle it is and how many things actually have to be updated, AND how much it costs if it’s not the standard woman-changes-name-at-marriage.

so youre saying the naming rights should go to the mother because she birthed the child? How far does that go? I always thought that if it was a committed couple and one of them was having a baby, the non baby having partner should support the woman having the child, accept that womans decisions during the pregnancy since its her body but once that child is born both parents, if they are both involved in the childs life, have equal say with what happens with that child.

if not it seems having the baby could enf up being a cudgel to wield for 18 or more years “i get to pick the name, i went through childbirth, i get to pick what school she/he goes to, etc etc”.  i have a lot of respect and admiration for anyone who chooses to have a chilld but once the child is born, if two people are the parents, both should have equal rights.

Jeebus, what a prick!  The name is bad enough but the heart of this story is that he completely ran roughshod over his wife to make HIS political statement and ham it up for the media. What a pathetic little man.  Frankly, the name is the least of this poor baby’s problems.

On naming:  My dad only got to choose my name (he chose the first name and I bear his first name as my middle name, which—since he is an awesome person—I actually consider an honor).  My mother named my sisters.

I am at that age where I am surrounded by pregnant women pretty much all the time and one annoying trend I’ve noticed (even when it came time to name my own son) was that the men had far more say than most people acknowledge. Here’s how it works:  the woman spends hours upon hours reading every baby name book she can get her hands on, going to baby name websites and baby name generators trying to create a list of names in which the first, middle, and last name are in perfect harmony only for the man to shoot down every suggestion, yet never (or rarely) contributing his own list of names.  The women often find themselves trying to “wear the men down” on a particular name they really fancy, but more often than not end up compromising on the one name he didn’t immediately dismiss. 

While I think the ideal should be for couples to generate their child(ren)‘s name together, when push comes to shove (pun intended) I think the woman should get the veto, not the man.

Um, both parents (if present) have to sign the birth certificate in many states.  Tennesee is pretty damn backward with the vital records, though.

Hey, he didn’t name her Stanley.

If you translate Chinese names into English, many of them are directly equivalent to English words like “Summer” or “Apple” or “Strong Man” or “Happiness”.

If you translate English names into English, many of them are direct equivalents to English words like “Joy” or “Chastity”. As for others, many have surprising meanings in Greek or Hebrew or Gaelic or Norse.

D&D;, strawman.  The douchery occurred not b/c the mom didn’t get to pick, but b/c the dad deliberately went against her wishes!  Please tell me you’re smart enough to recognize abuse of unilateral decision-making.

One of my friends in graduate school had a father who didn’t like the name he was given, so he named his son (my friend) Richard Igor John Dmitri Asoka Thomas (surname).  Said that his son could pick whatever name he wanted.

My friend chose “Rover.”

Well, that doesn’t really answer the question, Miss A. I suppose your dismissiveness is an example of the level of dialogue we might expect if your gang capture the Oval Office.

I think that you are mistaking the right to have your own stupid opinion with your belief that your stupid opinion need be listened to.  People don’t think that what you say is idiotic because you are of the Right; we think that it’s obvious that you are of the Right because you say idiotic things.  Give us a world where conservatives once again contribute intelligently to the national discourse and you will find, as if by magic, those of the centre and the left once again tilting their ears to listen.

That is true in many languages and of most traditional Anglo names.  We (people with Anglo names) just don’t usually bother with the translations.  The name Kofi, as in Kofi Annan, means Friday.  The name Olivia derives from the Greek for olive tree.

Off the top of my head Faith, Hope, Destiny, Christian, Crystal, Pearl and Ruby are all common English names.

Flowers are also common in many languages, i.e.  Lily, Daisy, Rose, or Sakura (cherry blossoms), Yuri (lily), Ayame (Iris), Tsubaki (Camellia), ect.

My grandmother named me after a good friend of hers, but such less common strategies emerge in large families after the usual suspects (parents, grandparents) have been disbursed upon the first few kids.

I think this a beautiful parable on the Republican attitude towards women in 2008: grand symbolic gestures of support fueled by a cheerful disregard for the stated interests of adult women.

Plus, there are few places in the country where McCain will finish further ahead than Tennessee, so I think Mike is the one to whom word needs to get.

And Sugar needs to stay on topic if he wants to be taken seriously.

What does surprise me:

*That it’s legal for a man to name a newborn whatever he wants against the mother’s will.

I’m surprised nobody seems to have brought this up already (my apologies if someone did and I missed it). ..I’m guessing that if a guy is an avid enough supporter of Sarah Palin, he’s probably a right-wing fundie and he expects his wife (a good Christian woman, no doubt) to submit to him as the bible directs.

As for names, I still haven’t forgiven my parents for naming me Pamela but I’m kinda loving Hashbrown McFantasticPants

My grandfather changed the names of all three of his kids without my grandmother’s consent, and she never forgave him for it. But my not-quite-sister-in-law’s husband went one worse: not only did he change their daughter’s name, after she’d already filled it out on the birth certificate, while she was zoned out post-birth, but he changed her name to his on her driver’s license, by forging her signature on the paperwork.

No, I don’t understand why she hasn’t divorced the asshole already.

Naming kids after nominated but not yet elected presidential candidates is nothing new.  Like the baby born two weeks after the 1912 Democratic Convention, named for presidential nominee Woodrow Wilson.  The baby was Woodrow Wilson Guthrie.  Better known later on as Woody.

Whether the father named the baby without the mother’s consent is an entirely different issue.  At least, even if it isn’t the mother’s choice, Sarah is a nice, normal name.  Whereas “Woodrow” ...

That is true in many languages and of most traditional Anglo names.  We (people with Anglo names) just don’t usually bother with the translations.

And to further stray from the main topic, isn’t it strange that English speakers habitually translate Native American names, but don’t to the same for other languages?

For instance, a video game publication wouldn’t publish Nintendo CEO Satoru Iwata’s name as “Fast Learner Iwata.” But where will you ever see a phonetic transliteration from the original language for, say, Pretty Shield or Sitting Bull?

Drawback: I’m one of those annoying people with a first initial (X. Ranylt Lastname) on my official docs so my passport and driver’s match my birth certificate.  I can’t go by my official first name because, well, I’ve never gone by it.  I wouldn’t respond if someone called me “X”—it’s too alien.  It generates a slight bureaucratic hassle now and again (thanks, mom and dad).

I’m in the same boat. My first name is my dad’s first name. My middle name - the name I go by - was chosen because of two factors: the first book of the Gospels and a favorite television characer, Marshall Matt Dillon of “Gunsmoke”. My brother should probably count his blessings he didn’t get lamped with “Chester” or worse “Festus”. In any event, I go by Matt because, well, that’s what everyone always called me. Even all through school, until college, because my mother taught in the local school system, everyone knew me as “Matt”. It was only when I went off to college that I began to have to answer to the first name. The upside is if I liked the professor, I would correct him/her and they were always pretty cool with it. Also, anytime someone calls me and asks to speak to “Firstname, please” I know they’re looking for money.

Oh yeah, two of my cousins have named their kids after “American Idol” participants. The little boy’s name is “Ace Rock”, which means he’ll either grow up to be the coolest kid ever or he’ll never forgive his momma and daddy.

Cris:

isn’t it strange that English speakers habitually translate Native American names, but don’t to the same for other languages?

Perhaps because of the cool factor?  As in, the people using the names don’t realize the coolness of the meaning of the names behind their phonetic reproduction?  One notices it, for example, when looking at Japanese warship names:  “Fortunate Crane”, “Early Spring” and “Autumn Wind” spring to mind.

Matt T, your first name wouldn’t be “Endeavour” , would it, Pagan?

My sister was named by my father, with 2 german names combined into one (He did his military time in Germany)(she only uses the first half of it).  My brother and I were named by my parents both writing lists of names they liked, and picking the ones that had the highest average score between their lists.

Seeker - are you talkin’ to me, or just calling Matt a pagan? 

Because we couldn’t countenance any pagans round these parts.

isn’t it strange that English speakers habitually translate Native American names, but don’t to the same for other languages?

I once took a course on Mesoamerican archaeology (which is one of those areas where scholars tend to translate the names, probably because Queztloatlchtloztl* and the like are sort of a mouthful**).  In the spirit of the name translations, I started using lecture down time to translate my name and the name of people I knew.  For instance 5000 years from now when some linguistic archaeologist digs up and decodes my driver’s license, I’m definitely going to be explained to history as The Princess of Pure Scholarship.  I’ve decided they’ll definitely think my first name is an honorific and that I was royalty, too.

This is a really fun game to play when you are bored.

*Totally invented name, btw, can’t be arsed to look up a real Mesoamerican royal line.ll

Ignore the second set of asterisks, sorry.

“When you take a girl out walking
down some shady dell
Always take a girl named Daisy
Because daisies never tell.”

Old Ragtime song.

I was named by Mother Avenger after Grandpa Monk, as he took care of her in the last month she was carrying me.  He was taking her out for ice cream when I made a break for it, and I was born in what is no longer San Jose Hospital, San Jose, CA.

My middle name comes from Professor Avenger(just Ray), and means, according to the Wiki:

Raymond is a name of Germanic origin, from the name Reginmund, composed of the elements ragin (“counsellor”) and mund (“protector”). This was the name of several saints, including Saint Raymond Nonnatus, the patron of midwives and expectant mothers, and Saint Raymond of Peñafort, the patron of canonists. It is a cognate of Ralph.

My last name begins with a C, and at one time MA wanted to name be Augustus, so I could hear my name at Midnight Mass every year, and Burl after PA, so I nearly ended up with the initials A. B. C.

INTPagan:

Capital “P” and INTless; an in-joke from the Morse series.  It was the character’s nickname at “public school” and Oxford.  He wouldn’t admit to having a Christian name so the lads inevitably dubbed him…..

You just outed yourself as a cultural jingoist. Hah, those funny Chinese name their kids with positive or generally benign name meanings so obviously! That’s not right

I guess you caught me.  :-p

True story:  I worked with a guy named “Mason Dixon”.

+++
Parents, for FSM’s sake DO NOT give your kids odd spellings, nor call them by their middle name. It’s a big fucking pain in the ass.

Dude, my name means “female donkey.” If you put my name into Babelfish and translate it into French it comes out as “bourrique.” If you translate that back into English, you get “she ass.”

An odd naming tradition grew up in my family-branch. My Mom’s married initials are JET, and my dad’s VET. I was named KIT (and with a first name of Kat, my Grandmother called me by a candybar as a nickname).

I married a SAM, and so became a KIM. (But none of my sibs or his have middle initial vowels.) We wanted to continue the tradition, and so our son is named JEM (which means hubby teases him about that girl’s cartoon that was out when he was young, to son’s eternal annoyance). If he had been a girl we’d've named her DEM, and when he was in school he wrote an essay about this naming thing and said he had mixed feelings about that. =)

He recently had a daughter himself, and continued the tradition, so I’m grandmother to a MAM. Well, at least people will be polite to her, lol. (Joke on ‘Ma’am’.)

“What does surprise me:

That it’s legal for a man to name a newborn whatever he wants against the mother’s will. “

Amanda,

So what if the father named the baby, haven’t you heard of ‘father knows best’ ? There is truth to that.

I know it’s a struggle for you to understand human-nature, but please try.

Wow, now I know that I can force my GF to let me name our (currently hypothetical) baby Oscar Morrissey Truman Vidal Lincoln. I can’t wait!

The little boy’s name is “Ace Rock”

Oooh, that’s atrocious.  Hopefully he’ll insist on being called “A.R.”

Of course “Peter” means “Rock.”

Parents, for FSM’s sake DO NOT give your kids odd spellings, nor call them by their middle name. It’s a big fucking pain in the ass

Except when you, your brother, your father, your grandfather, your uncle, and your male cousins all have the first name Mohammed. :D In that situation, going by a middle name is probably preferable.

I know it’s a struggle for you to understand human-nature, but please try.

submission to male dominance = “understanding human nature”

No wonder wingnuts don’t want anybody to know, learn about, or study other cultures - they might learn that assnut’s idea of “human nature” isn’t.

Nice try winghat.

I’m pregnant now and we have equal say. We’ve agreed on a girls name but we’re so screwed on the boys. I adore the name Connor, and my husband hates it. My son’s name will NOT be Connor (unless, of course, we can’t agree on anything else, but I’m pretty open minded)

I’m pretty certain my parents chose my names equally. I could ahve been an Ashley or an Eric, and from the way they talked about it they both liked them.

Got my dad’s last name, my mom made up my middle name, which I’m certain Dad agreed to.

So, pretty egalitarian.

I’m not sure which of my parents suggested my first name, but my middle name is a mistake. :D Suffice to say that I was supposed to be named after my great-aunt Adelaide, but my parents didn’t like that name, so they named me Adrian. They later found out that my great-aunt Adelaide’s name was, in fact, Adeline.

I’m named after a character on my maternal grandmother’s favorite soap opera.  I don’t think my dad minds; as far as I can tell, the understanding in my family has always been that the mother gets final say on a child’s name.

I assume no male privilege ... and the strong, independent woman I married precisely for her strength and independence, I think, bears that out.

Barf.

That is all.

I always wondered what his thoughts on The Civil War were, but I never had the nerve to ask…

Of two minds, I would expect.

+2 cookies for the first person to find Ciptak ragging on some forum about how women are all duplicitous, backstabbing, double-dealing sneaks that you can’t trust.

Whether or not he’s computer literate enough to post, we all know something along those lines has come out of this asshole’s mouth at some time or another.

KLH, you’ve inspired me to go out and find a real man who will want to subjugate me, marry me, and make me bear his children, while treating mine like shit since they have different fathers than him.  He will be in charge of naming them.

Not like the namby-pamby pansy I’m with now who respects me, helps with my daughter, and cooks.  I can’t believe I’ve been going so against my human nature by allowing him to be this good to me.

Maybe I can at LEAST convince him to marry me and make me take his name.

Shit, INTPagan, why on earth do you stay?  Flee!

My dad’s parents literally offered my parents money if they would give me a certain name that ran in that side of the family.  Rejected!  Of course I ended up with a gender-ambiguous yuppie name instead, but that has its moments.

KLH writes, ¨So what if the father named the baby, haven’t you heard of ‘father knows best’ ? There is truth to that. I know it’s a struggle for you to understand human-nature, but please try.¨

Even if one were to concede there is a natural human tendency towards this behavior, either because the science is firm on it (I doubt it) or an arbitrary set of norms deems the behavior ¨natural,¨ that would have no bearing on whether the father´s actions in this case were right.

I am curious to find out, of those born to married straight couples, which parent picked your first name.

My parents picked my name cooperatively, and my sister’s as well; my daughter was named before my ex and I were engaged (we both liked Katherine, and my ex and her mom both had the middle name Marie, so we kept that tradition going). I can’t imagine doing it any other way, and frankly, wouldn’t want to be in a relationship where that didn’t end with castration.

“Not like the namby-pamby pansy I’m with now who respects me, helps with my daughter, and cooks.  I can’t believe I’ve been going so against my human nature by allowing him to be this good to me. “

Sounds like a good man to me.

Guys, don’t feel KLH anymore. He’s probably trolling so he doesn’t have to do his algebra homework.

My mother’s approach to naming was “When you give birth to them, you get to name them.” Yet she still gave me the patronymic, so you can see how far that went.

I am curious to find out, of those born to married straight couples, which parent picked your first name. 

My mother picked my name. My father nearly changed it to Cynthia when I was 2 months old, but Mom talked him out of it, thank goodness.

On my sister, Mom sat down and made a list of first and middle names. She then consulted her husband on what he liked.

With my four (we were in a VERY male dom religion), my husband, Mudd, suggested the name for our first girl and I loved it. The second got his middle name and a very generic first name that I liked. Third got a family name and a middle name that was a variant on my grandfather’s middle name. The baby came far too close to being Willow Rowena Sparrow. Mudd talked me into something he could spell.

After my c-section with twins, all the documentation was set in my hospital room for us to fill out before we were released. I was in pain and had two kids attached to each breast, so their father…who I am not married to but have a good relationship with, filled out the paperwork.

Before their birth we had agreed that they would be named Firstname Hislastnameasmiddlename Mylastname. The birth certificates came back as Firstname Hislastname-Mylastname. No way was I going to let my kids go through life hyphenated and against what we agreed on. Now, it is still a source of controversy as to whether the mistake was made by him or by the vital statistics clerks or what have you. But I had to get all of that changed, because…funny enough…the same mistake was made on their SS cards. TWO bureaucratic mistakes from TWO different agencies? I think not. Anyway, It was a bitch to change them and then also change everything that automatically was produced through them such as health insurance policies, etc.

So, I don’t think it is a legal thing, just a thing where the mother is in a compromised position when the stuff needs to get filled out. I wonder if there was a true fight, who would win in court? In my case, I was able to make the changes on my own without needing his permission. But then I would have never bothered to get his permission anyway. He did not protest.

Ladies and gentlemen, I bring you the ULTIMATE WINNA in asshat naming of children.

You may gasp in astonishment.

Okay, slightly off topic:

How many newborn children nationwide are going to be named “Barack” between election day and inauguration?  I predict a flood.

The baby came far too close to being Willow Rowena Sparrow.

That would have been awesome, especially if you could get famous, get on _Meet the Press_, and force Tom Brokaw to try to say it.

I predict that the wife is going to call the child “Ava” regardless, especially after she bounces her idiot husband out on his ear.

Based on a comment made by my mother to me when I was whining to her at one point about my name, I’m pretty convinced she came up with it and she and my father decided together on my middle name.  My father probably never thought much of the permanence of naming, seeing as he had already had his name mangled by Catholic nuns from a perfectly good Russian name into a “saint’s name.”

One suggestion I do have is PLEASE don’t use nicknames or cutesy shortenings as the formal name.  Be as traditional and as pompous as possible for the official name, then use an informal nickname if you wish.  Then your offspring will have a perfectly good sensible name to use when the occasion requires it.  “Shirley” is a perfectly good name for a Supreme Court Justice, but “Shirlee” gets suspiciously close to the stereotypical name of a tassel-twirling girl in white go-go boots in Las Vegas.

My father picked my name and my sister’s.  My mother used to reminisce about the names she would have given us if she’d ‘had a choice’.  She pretty clearly didn’t.

If I ever have a child, I’m naming it, damnit, I’m the one going through a day of blood and agony!

A few names I’ve considered for my first male child:

1. Babatunde Thundercleeze (just rolls right off the tongue)

2. Moochie Ichabod (suggested by my mother, in the context of a discussion regarding ex-NBAer Moochie Norris, and the linguistic implications of naming your child “Moochie”)

3. McJesus (single name, in the tradition of Brazil’s finest footballers)

4. Big Baby McJesus (in loving memory of Ol’ Dirty Bastard)

5. Barack Hussein Obamaramadingding (because I’ve been drinking)

6. Percy Miracles (google it if you’re uninformed)

7. The Dude

8. His Dudeness

9. Supreme Allied Commander Numbnuts

10. Buck Fush

+1 to naming your kids something pompous and then calling them by a nickname. Sometimes the occasion warrants having a czarina’s name.

I’m pretty sure my parents named my brother and I together, 50/50. I do that I was nearly named Alexis, but my parents didn’t want me having the same name as Alexis Carrington of Dynasty fame (very big in ‘84), so Alexandra it was. And hyphenated last names for both of us.

Sadly, feminism did not stop them from giving my poor brother a terrible, terrible first-middle name combination.

Ladies and gentlemen, I bring you the ULTIMATE WINNA in asshat naming of children.

Piator, you have obviously never encountered the Utah Baby Namer

I remember telling at least one nosy nellie of a relative that I planned to name my kid “Random Isosoles”.

You know, I’d never heard of McCain/Palin before this.  Gee, I think I have to vote for them now!

“Hashbrown McFantasticPants “
YES! the fish or the hamster shall be thusly renamed by morn!

“Barack” is a cool first name. Barack was a biblical badass, and it also means “lightning” in Hebrew. This name should be totally cool with the fundies.

Normally I think persons of European or African descent should not defile themselves by being named with names from the alien middle-eastern monotheistic cults which have contaminated both our cultures. My first name is the name of a supposed Christian Saint, but I like to think of him as an enemy collaborator. Luckily I have always been called by by middle name which is a good European pagan name. I’m sure there are lots of good pre-islam and pre-xian African names too, though I am less familiar with them.

Atheists should not name their childeren after their current enemies.

Looks like my comment was eaten up.  Lets hope this shows up.

Yeesh….what an ass.  How many want to bet that his daughter gives him grief upon discovering the circumstances of her naming…especially when she becomes an adolescent…

It’s true that Chinese names (and names in many other Asian cultures) follow a looser tradition than Western names; you can basically name your kid any combination of one or two syllables, although you really have to come from the culture to understand how this works and how not to come up with a name that sounds wrong.  But to interpret this as “Chinese people give their kids stupid names, just like hippies” is…I have no words.

You can tell a lot about the family’s’ literary and cultural identifications by the names given…especially if the family concerned places a high premium on those identifications. 

With such families, the family name is often structured in a three character pattern of surname first, generational marker/part of given name, and part of given name.  Along with surnames, generational markers are usually set by clan/extended family rules with separate ones for male and female siblings.  As such, every male/female sibling/cousin within the same generation will have their respective generational marker along with their surname.  This generational marker* combined with the last character becomes the given name.  For this reason, many parents will attempt to choose the third character which along with the generational marker in an attempt to make a profound literary, cultural, religious, and/or philosophical reference from the Chinese classics. 

However, with the 1949 revolution and the Maoist suppression of non-Maoist literary, cultural, and intellectual life, there has been an increasing trend of moving to more simplified two character names with Maoist and/or martial themes.  With the end of Maoism and the rise of market reforms from 1979 onwards, there has been an increasing trend of parents choosing two character names such as “Happiness” as there is no longer the great social pressure to name their child against something culturally or politically significant.  Even most previously literary, culturally, and intellectually inclined families are now going with simplified two character names.  It is one reason why my three character name prompts much conversation from my mainland Chinese classmates and co-workers whereas it wouldn’t be considered anything notable by those from Hong Kong and the ROC(Taiwan) where the three-character based name remains commonplace to the present. 

Incidentally, my mother chose both my Chinese and English names with little input from dad…and that was only to ensure the generational marker was correct and the last character had some coherent literary and philosophical reference. 

* Oddly enough, I recently found my surname and generational marker is shared by a famous general of the Chinese PLA during the Maoist period.  After looking into his birthplace and ancestral history, there seems to be some possibility we may be distantly related cousins in the same generation….even though he was born more than 70 years before me.  Moreover, we’d be fierce ideological and political opponents if we had met IRL. 

I was one of four Jennys in each of my classes until second grade, when I cut it and wanted go to by my full name (one tidbit from birth order psych is that often first-borns and onlies - I’m an only - don’t like to go by cutesy diminutives like that; I go by Jen).

I had the opposite problem.  My Scottish-English derived Western name in full form tends to sound too formalistic.  Though I love that name, I found I had to shorten it to put classmates, friends, and co-workers at ease…especially in casual social settings.  Despite that, the use of the full form of that name has added to the gravitas of my academic research papers and professional emails/reports.

In Spain and Italy there is a glorious tradition of men getting drunk on their way to wherever it is that babies are registered, and giving their newborns rather silly names. And it is almost impossible to change names afterwards in both countries.

My comment apparently got eated; I try again, with slight editing:

“In the spirit of the name translations, I started using lecture down time to translate my name and the name of people I knew.  For instance 5000 years from now when some linguistic archaeologist digs up and decodes my driver’s license, I’m definitely going to be explained to history as The Princess of Pure Scholarship.  ”

That is awesome.  More or less translating (sometimes with shaky etymologies, and much poetic license): Our 1st president was the humble sounding “Farmer from Wassa-town” (or possibly, “Farmer of the Creekside Town”.  Skipping over the next bunch (even “The One Who Dwells in the Cliffs by the Grove”, which sounds very hermit-like, or possibly Lovecraftian), we come to #32nd,  at the start of the Big Sinking: “Illustrious Warrior of the Large Farm”.  He was followed, luckily, by ‘Landowner of the Dark Rose Field”, then “Trusted Leader”, “Iron Hewer of Dionysos”, and “Helmet-headed Grace of God”,  After “John’s Son from the Lime-tree Hill”, we had “Nick’s Son the Powerful Leader,” “Ruling Spear Water Crossing”, “Heel-Grasping Cart-man”, a partially untranslatable name containing “Ruler’s Counsel”, and then Farmer Shrub (I).  #42’s “Determined Defender of the Fenced Settlement” (also known as “Large Dog”).  While the name of the 2000 popular vote winner could be understood as “Noble Shining Sow”, we ended up with “Farmer Shrub (II)” instead.

Oh, we so should go by translations.  That would be infinitely cooler.

Correction: “we come to #31, at the start of the Big Sinking: “Illustrious Warrior of the Large Farm”

My parents named me together, but I do know that my father’s favourite was vetoed by my mother. When I think about my first and middle names together, they translate roughly to shining moon, or distinguished goddess. I spent much of my childhood trying to fight the sheer plainness of my name by trying out unusual pronouciations and variations, but now I am grateful for their restraint.
I only think my parents could have considered that all three of my names can be spelt three or four different ways, such that I almost never see it in full spelled correctly by someone besides myself. Also, I guess they couldn’t have known at the time, but I find it ironic that I was named after a fertility goddess.

My mother wanted to name me Anna Marie, but my father was asked what my name was when I was delivered, and he said Lindsay. To this day, while I love my name, I’m pissed at him for not giving her the right to name her only daughter.

Normally I think persons of European or African descent should not defile themselves by being named with names from the alien middle-eastern monotheistic cults which have contaminated both our cultures.

As someone with one of those names, honestly I’m OK with it.    I mean, we name people after characters from all sorts of literary sources, fictional and non.  On the other hand, I get one of the fiestier Old Testament folks—Sarah is the only person in the Abrahamic canon to actually laugh at God.  Also, there’s a lot of speculation that she’s intended to have been a priestess at Ur.  To which, heck yeah—if I’m going to be named after someone from the Bible, I’ll take one of the pagan ones, thanks.

Here is a link to a great website where soon-to-be-parents have obviously lost their minds when it comes to naming their children.

And the website’s owner’s snark is really the best part.

http://www.notwithoutmyhandbag.com/babynames/

My brother and I were both named for a grandparent or great-grandparent.  I have an uncle who was named for a gas station by his older sisters while my grandpa was driving them to the hospital, but it was a common name which the gas station happened to remind them of.

I have to admit, I am in many ways fond of the greater freedom in what’s an acceptable name in recent years as opposed to the past.  Yes, there are cliches and many truly awful selections out there, but then there have always been names that some people hate.  The problem tends to come from the parents and the child, or the parents and other members of society, having different opinions on what constitutes an acceptable name.

What would be really good is a widespread custom of the child choosing what to be called once they grow older—-the name given in infancy taking the role of a childhood mode-of-address with an older child or adult selecting their own once old enough to not change it every few days, and a culturewide implementation of the concept that every person has the right to choose what they are called—-after all, they are the one who has to live with it.

That would hopefully be helpful to the people who hate the name they were given or feel it doesn’t suit them, be it “Apple” or “Enid” or “Andrew Jackson Lastname” or “Christian” or “4Real” or “Sarah McCain Palin” or “Ava Grace” or whatever.

In the meantime, thank Goddess for professors who ask their students what name they prefer to be called, and for the internet.

I’m not planning on having kids, so selecting names is limited to characters I might create, but it just occurred to me that if I did have kids, if there were twin boys scheduled to be born, I would without a doubt be informed by my partner that I am forbidden to name them Optimus and Megatron.

Not that I would, but because she would know me too well.

histrogeek, “Sarah” doesn’t mean “laughter” or “she laughed.”  It means “princess.”  Isaac is “laughter,” after Sarah’s reaction when God told her she was pregnant.

My parents cooperated on my name, but, much to the consternation of my paternal relatives, I wound up named after both of my mother’s grandmothers.

My ex and I were very careful, when picking names out of the limited pool available to us, to take one from each side of the family.  I will admit to cheating and scouring both sides in search of a deceased Chaya to give me a good excuse to name a girl Charlotte, since I’ve always loved the name.  Luckily, there was one.

That is awesome.  More or less translating (sometimes with shaky etymologies, and much poetic license): Our 1st president was the humble sounding “Farmer from Wassa-town” (or possibly, “Farmer of the Creekside Town”.  Skipping over the next bunch (even “The One Who Dwells in the Cliffs by the Grove”, which sounds very hermit-like, or possibly Lovecraftian), we come to #32nd, at the start of the Big Sinking: “Illustrious Warrior of the Large Farm”.  He was followed, luckily, by ‘Landowner of the Dark Rose Field”, then “Trusted Leader”, “Iron Hewer of Dionysos”, and “Helmet-headed Grace of God”, After “John’s Son from the Lime-tree Hill”, we had “Nick’s Son the Powerful Leader,” “Ruling Spear Water Crossing”, “Heel-Grasping Cart-man”, a partially untranslatable name containing “Ruler’s Counsel”, and then Farmer Shrub (I).  #42’s “Determined Defender of the Fenced Settlement” (also known as “Large Dog”).  While the name of the 2000 popular vote winner could be understood as “Noble Shining Sow”, we ended up with “Farmer Shrub (II)” instead.

I am SO totally swiping that when I write a “humans meet aliens” story that might involve dubious translation…

My very British mother wanted to name me Alice Una. Combined with my long clunker of a Nordic last name (think J’s where they don’t need to be) I think I would have been beaten every day. Instead, my very Wyoming father convinced her that Jennifer Lee was the way to go. It’s boring yes and terribly common, but Alice? Ugh.

My parents alternated. My father got to name my older sister, Shana (his fav movie was Shane). My mom got to pick mine, Cole. Middle names were nods to extended family—my poor sister ended up with a mashup of 5+ female family names—Maywinda. I got my great-grandfather’s middle name, Atwood, which was mis mother’s maiden name—a pretty common way of keeping the maternal name intact in a patriarchy.

Born to married straight couple: Got dad’s last name (although I got assumed to have my mom’s a lot in school, since she did all the pick-ups and drop-offs), mom picked middle name, first name was (thank god) a compromise (which is to say: I don’t hate it, which I would have if they’d gone with my dad’s choice).  I’m not sure who got to pick the names in the case of my dad’s other kids, but they all have pretty normal names.

I used to work at an elementary school.
Among the many strange and wonderful names like Pebbles, we also had a child named “Master Self Knowledge.”

Our last name is ‘Sherman’, so when I was pregnant my husband and I had a lot of fun coming up with bad baby names:

Osama Bin Sherman
Tito Benito Sherman
Manson Gacey Sherman

Even out friends got in on the act:

Herman Sherman
Helmsley Sherman
Tank Sherman
Sherman Sherman Sherman

Finally, we came up with a pretty traditional name - John Liam. My blue-eyed, caucasian husband had been named Krishna by his father while his mother was recovering from the anesthesia (yes, my FiL is as big of an asshole as you might suspect), so it was important to my husband that our son not be saddled with an awkward name that would make him a target for schoolyard bullies.

Hey news flash people. Obviously many of you have not had a child lately. Let me tell you a secret, the mother most have agreed on the name. You see there is this funny little fact that you have to submit through the mail with signatures on it a mock birth certificate. In return you will eventually be mailed the actual birth certificate and Social Security Card. So quit blaming the father they both ultimately agreed on the name.