Login

Register

Member List

RSS Feed

Amanda | Contact

Auguste | Contact

Jesse | Contact

Pam | Contact

Next entry: Plumby F. Baby Previous entry: Battlestar Galactica speculation thread

1996 documents surface proving Obama publicly supported marriage equality

This proves that Barack Obama’s “marriage is between a man and a woman” position —the default escape hatch for all of the top tier Dem presidential contenders in 2008—is disingenuous, (not to mention illogical since he’s taught constitutional law).

The Windy City Times’ publisher and executive editor Tracy Baim reports that in 1996, while running in the Illinois State Senate race (13th District), he fully supported marriage equality in his response to a survey by Outlines newspaper (the pub merged with WCT). This survey had been previously cited by the media without access to any supporting documentation. However, while going through archives for another project, Baim discovered the original survey response signed by Obama himself. It’s unequivocal support:

[A]s Obama has run for higher office, from senator to president, he has further shaped his views on marriage, and now he does not back same-sex marriage. In a January 2004 interview I conducted with Obama at the Windy City Times’ office, Obama clearly stated that lack of support for full marriage equality was a matter of strategy rather than principle, but in even more recent comments, it appears he is backing off even further, saying it is more of a religious issue, and also a “state” issue, so he favors civil unions. Both are compromises most gays do not support. First, the U.S. has a separation of church and state, and laws are in place locally and nationally that give benefits based on the very word, “marriage.” Therefore, marriage as it is now defined is a government ( both state and federal ) institution that comes with specific financial and social benefits ( taxes, benefits, inheritance, immigration, custody, etc. ) . So, until government eliminates the word “marriage” from state and federal laws, it is a government issue, and that includes the federal government. Obama’s answer to the 1996 Outlines question was very clear: “I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages.” There was no use of “civil unions,” no compromise whatsoever.

As we know all too well, the whole “God is in the mix” blather when it comes to civil law makes no sense, and Barack Obama admitted as much in the 2004 interview with the WCT when he was running for the U.S. Senate. It was all about strategy and making the issue a political football, thus the reshaped position once civil unions came to the fore as a politically viable option/escape hatch for him.

Tracy Baim: Do you have a position on marriage vs. civil unions?

Barack Obama: I am a fierce supporter of domestic- partnership and civil-union laws. I am not a supporter of gay marriage as it has been thrown about, primarily just as a strategic issue.

I think that marriage, in the minds of a lot of voters, has a religious connotation. I know that’s true in the African-American community, for example. And if you asked people, ‘should gay and lesbian people have the same rights to transfer property, and visit hospitals, and et cetera,’ they would say, ‘absolutely.’ And then if you talk about, ‘should they get married?’, then suddenly ...

...Obama: What I’m saying is that strategically, I think we can get civil unions passed. I think we can get SB 101 passed. I think that to the extent that we can get the rights, I’m less concerned about the name. And I think that is my No. 1 priority, is an environment in which the Republicans are going to use a particular language that has all sorts of connotations in the broader culture as a wedge issue, to prevent us moving forward, in securing those rights, then I don’t want to play their game.

So, there’s the proof, folks; when it comes down to it, supporting marriage equality is all about the polls. As long as full marriage equality isn’t overwhelmingly approved by Americans, when it comes to running for federal office pols—including Obama—believe there’s more to lose than gain if they take an honest position supporting full equality. While that seems elementary, the language used to maneuver around the truth is pretty embarrassing—and exacerbates the already serious problem of too many voters who have trouble understanding the separation of church and state.

More below the fold.
I’m quite aware that this is all obvious, but I posed this to my readers who insist that in 2008 he should have taken his 1996 position—do you think Barack Obama would have been elected had he openly supported marriage equality? Would purity and honesty have given us President John McCain (and Sarah Palin a heartbeat away)? That’s not giving him a pass, by the way, it’s more a sigh of discontent that the whole ridiculous dance around the issue is about coddling the beliefs of, rather than educating the ignorant and fence-sitting voters.

The John Edwards public cop-out on marriage equality in 2006 really set the nauseating “politically viable” standard—the whole “tortured pol” meme citing religious limitation that clouds their thinking regarding civil law:

“I was raised in the Southern Baptist church and so I have a belief system that arises from that. It’s part of who I am. I can’t make it disappear. ... I personally feel great conflict about that. I don’t know the answer. I wish I did. I think from my perspective it’s very easy for me to say, gay civil unions, yes, partnership benefits, yes, but it is something that I struggle with. Do I believe they should have the right to marry? I’m just not there yet.”

It’s an improvement over the 2004 Dem “run away from gay issues” field of candidates, but it’s pretty tough out here to see our right to marry discussed in 2008 with a shady and disingenuous position that conflates civil rights with religion-based discrimination. That has, in many ways, set progress back on marriage equality because of the role religion plays in U.S. society (and, quite frankly, to the lack of critical thinking skills by too large a slice of the public).

The bottom line is that we’re living the inequality, whereas the issue is an abstraction or distraction to most Americans. Our patience is tested time and again by the sizeable number of people who “aren’t ready.” And those folks, at this point and time, still influence Barack Obama—and his fellow Dems—in their decision to go undercover when it comes to supporting marriage equality. And that hurts, there’s no way around it. It’s why we have to continue to speak out and to call out the inconsistencies and political game playing that are counterproductive.

------

Registration is now required! We're still in the process of getting it all squared away, so for the moment don't forget to Login or Register using the links in the upper left menu before starting to write your comment.

Posted by Pam Spaulding on 10:42 AM • (36) Comments

Wow Pam, you seem to be as bad as the Repubs here in taking a yes/no survey and in comparison to a leter more nuanced explanation, trying to show a flipflop.  Obama’s smart enough to be a good chess palyer, looking a few moves ahead.  Get the rights, screw what you call that package of rights, then let some het couple that doesn’t want the religious connotations of marriage sue (from the other side) to GET a civil union instead, and what you have is a great way to put religion back into the box from whence it SHOULD operate.

Comment #1: phylosopher  on  01/14  at  11:23 AM

a leter more nuanced explanation, trying to show a flipflop

There’s not a lot of nuance when you say that you believe “marriage is between a man and a woman” 2008 in comparison to a prior position of “I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages.” I was simply pointing out the obvious. That is a flip flop from the perspective of the portion of the population that believes separate is equal when it comes to this issue. Civil unions are not equal—ask the commission in NJ that came to that conclusion. This will end up in SCOTUS, something I’ve said from day one.

Comment #2: Pam Spaulding  on  01/14  at  11:31 AM

It will be interesting to see if this was simply a promise that was designed to be broken?  Hard to say either way.

Comment #3: Ms Kate  on  01/14  at  11:44 AM

Maybe what we should learn from this is politics can be harmfull to your soul.

“When a politician is in opposition he is an expert on the means to some end; and when he is in office he is an expert on the obstacles to it.” G. K. Chesterton

Comment #4: Michael Mcgreevy  on  01/14  at  11:56 AM

So, there’s the proof, folks; when it comes down to it, supporting marriage equality is all about the polls. As long as full marriage equality isn’t overwhelmingly approved by Americans, when it comes to running for federal office pols—including Obama—believe there’s more to lose than gain if they take an honest position supporting full equality. While that seems elementary, the language used to maneuver around the truth is pretty embarrassing—and exacerbates the already serious problem of too many voters who have trouble understanding the separation of church and state.

Well, Obama knows that.  And you know that Obama knows that.  But the situation is more complicated than that.

Currently, there are two(?) states that have legalized same-sex marriage and thirty(?) with various laws and amendments restricting it.  But of the remaining twenty-eight, are there any states that passively permit gay marriage?  DOMA-esque laws were never really required by states to prohibit gay marriage.  The only real concern was that some judge might legalize a marriage at a high enough court level that the law of the state would be changed.  But in states like Texas or Alabama where the State SC is run by wingers anyway, that was never going to happen.  So layer upon layer of law reiterating the illegality of gay marriage doesn’t actually benefit the homobigots as gay marriage contracts were never going to be recognized anyway.

There are three breeds of political actor in this fight:
The pro-civil rights politician that actively fights to legalize national recognition of the right to marry.
The homophobe politician that actively fights to ostracize and criminalize the right to marry.
And the neutral agent, who doesn’t sponsor or support any change in existing law either way.

Obama is - by and large - a neutral agent.  And in a country with fierce pockets of anti-gay extremists surrounded by large swaths of status quo adherents, this is the best you’re likely to get for some time.  Obama isn’t going to fight the good fight for you.  But he’s not going to put up much resistance if a groundswell emerges, either.

He’s the LBJ of the gay rights movement.  You still need to find your Martin Luther King.

Comment #5: Zifnab25  on  01/14  at  12:06 PM

Let’s face it, by Pandagon standards Obama is a homobigot.

In fairness, that’s what you should call him.

Hey, why isn’t that in the headline?

Comment #6: Libertarian  on  01/14  at  12:13 PM

Fifty-five years since Brown v Board of Ed concluded that separate but equal was plenty separate, but not actually equal.  And the best our ‘liberal’ politicians can come up with is this crap that was repudiated more than five decades ago.  We’ve got the other side standing up and screaming - nearly unanimously - that gays are subhuman and deserve no rights.  And on our side we’ve got our leaders whimpering, “Well, maybe just a few rights, pretty please.  But we totally agree they aren’t fully human.”  There’s nobody with a national profile standing up and calling the bigots out for what they are.

Comment #7: libdevil  on  01/14  at  12:14 PM

libdevil, we’re not even at a place where civil unions are universally recognized under the law, so I’m not sure that analogy holds.  The states/school districts used to provide separate schools, separate buildings, separate teachers, separate schoolbooks, etc. to white kids and black kids and what was being provided to black students was unambiguously inferior to what was being provided to white students.  Right now in the US it’s more typically the case that *nothing* is being offered to same-sex couples so there’s nothing to compare and Brown strikes me as relevant only in those localities where civil unions are recognized.

There are things that would surprise me a lot more than learning that Obama once supported same-sex marriage but changed his mind.  You know, as in Changed His Mind.

Comment #8: Melinda  on  01/14  at  12:27 PM

“Let’s face it, by Pandagon standards Obama is a homobigot.

In fairness, that’s what you should call him.

Hey, why isn’t that in the headline?

Libertarian”

Libertarian, most of the good folks at Pandagon would call him a homobigot if thay thought he was one.  It seems like you are implying that Obama gets a pass because the color of his skin? That is simply not true.

Comment #9: Michael Mcgreevy  on  01/14  at  12:31 PM

I wonder if straight people will be allowed to get civil unions if they want? Will the paper work be the same, but the marriage license/civil union license will just have two designations on it? Its all so idiotic—of course I support marriage equality, but if every Federal/State document that has the box “married” on it changed to “married/unionized” when designating rights, benefits, etc., then GBLTQ folks (and straight folks perhaps) could be unionized by a civil body (or UU/UCC minister) and get all the rights, but not be “married” in the states eyes, but perhaps married in a specific church/synagogue/temple’s estimation?

Again, stupid and redundant, but perhaps since even many in the Republican party have claimed that they support civil unions or benefits, it would be difficult to object at this point to “Civil Unions” even if they were put right alongside “marriage.” I don’t know, if we can get Civil Unions today and then in ten/twenty years, marriage or civil unions is dropped as language and just called one (and since its a state document I think Civil Union should actually be the term we adopt for all such relationships and you can be married at your church).

Comment #10: Thealogian  on  01/14  at  12:47 PM

Ah the predictable reactions- outrage at Obama’s flipflop (I too think it’s reprehensible, I’m just surprised that anybody is surprised) vs. outrage from diehard Obamabots at those who are outraged.

Hello, to people on both sides- he’s a frickin’ politician, not The One.  A relatively decent politician but definitely not one to stick his neck out, and not at all averse to some garden-variety political trimming when he feels he’s too far out front of public opinion. This is how it’s gonna be- may as well get used to it.

Nothing complicated about it and no 3-dimensional chess strategy- he’s simply being an all too conventional political hypocrite on gay marriage.

This was a perfect description of him by Zifnab25:

Obama isn’t going to fight the good fight for you.  But he’s not going to put up much resistance if a groundswell emerges, either.

He’s the LBJ of the gay rights movement.  You still need to find your Martin Luther King.

But I can’t agree that that is the best that is possible at this time. No, it’s simply the best you’ll get from Obama. He may be charismatic, but he is no bold leader, on anything.

Comment #11: Steve LaBonne  on  01/14  at  01:05 PM

Libertarian, there are gay people who don’t support marriage equality, or support it only if the institution is done away with for everyone.  Are they homobigots, too?

Personally, I think there should be state civil unions that are open to all, and religious marriage with rules determined by the religion of interest.  The former would be legally binding and confer all the rights of the partnership contract, the latter would be at the discretion of the couple and their religious insititution.

Does that make me a homobigot?  Or an enemy of marriage?

Comment #12: Ms Kate  on  01/14  at  01:09 PM

Its all so idiotic—of course I support marriage equality, but if every Federal/State document that has the box “married” on it changed to “married/unionized” when designating rights, benefits, etc., then GBLTQ folks (and straight folks perhaps) could be unionized by a civil body (or UU/UCC minister) and get all the rights, but not be “married” in the states eyes, but perhaps married in a specific church/synagogue/temple’s estimation?

Except that we already have that.  Churches are free to do ceremonies for whomever they please, and the Unitarian Universalist, Espiscopalian, and Church of Christ denominations have been doing so for years.

The problem is that those marriages are not recognized by the state, so if your religiously-wedded spouse dies, you’re hosed when it comes to those 1,000 rights and benefits that come to state-wedded spouses.

The problem isn’t that gay people can’t find a minister or a church to marry them.  There are plenty of those around.  The problem is that they’re being denied the recognition of the STATE for those marriages, and I have yet to hear an explanation why the GOVERNMENT should be validating religious marriages for some people but not for other people.

It’s kind of funny that the Roman Catholic Church insists that only the government can declare that people are really married, but only the Roman Catholic Church can declare that people are really divorced.  Gotta pick one or the other, guys—if you accept the marriage license from the state as a go-ahead to marry a couple, you also have to accept the divorce decree from the state.  No more of this, “Well, you’re still married in the eyes of God” if the license from the government is so important to your religious beliefs that you have to make sure that certain people aren’t allowed to get it.

Comment #13: Mnemosyne  on  01/14  at  01:13 PM

This is what I hate about politicians. Put them on the spot and they will back away from their personal beliefs EVERY TIME in favor of getting reelected or a big campaign contribution. Fuck that. He had it right the first time. Marriage equality for ALL.

Comment #14: Mark  on  01/14  at  01:21 PM

But I can’t agree that that is the best that is possible at this time.

You might want to take a look at how the Prop 8 campaign was fucked up here in California.  Even in the No on 8 camp, there was no one who was willing to stand up and defend the rights of gay people to be treated equally.  The No on 8 people took a 60/40 majority in their favor and completely blew it by pussyfooting around the whole issue and telling people it was okay to be homophobic while their opponents were running commercials telling California voters that gay marriage was going to turn all of their kids into fags.

When you find that politician or public figure working right now who’s willing to risk everything to get same-sex marriage recognized, let me know who s/he is, because I haven’t even seen one at the statewide level in California, much less at a national level.

Obama’s position on same-sex marriage is exactly the same as his position on abortion:  he may not approve of it personally, but his personal feelings should not affect the legal rights of other people, so it should not be illegal.  I realize this is not the enthusiastic support that either pro-choice or gay rights people are looking for, but just as it doesn’t mean on the abortion side that Obama is a secret pro-lifer who’s going to overturn Roe v Wade and establish a nationwide ban as soon as he becomes President, it also doesn’t mean that Obama is a gay-hating homophobe who’s going to turn back the clock and ban gay marriage as soon as he becomes President.

Comment #15: Mnemosyne  on  01/14  at  01:23 PM

The reason the government doesn’t recognize church marriages as binding is because marriage is a government contract. Every church has a different set of requirements for marriage, divorce and annulment, why would the government give national recognition and legal standing to a local religious custom?

Which is why saying that we should make an entirely new contract and leave marriage to religion is ridiculous. They already have specific terms for people married in their church, and would still have to use them after this proposed change in order to distinguish themselves from all of the heretics out there.

Comment #16: Kerlyssa  on  01/14  at  02:06 PM

There’s nobody with a national profile standing up and calling the bigots out for what they are.

Au contraire.

They exist, they just have absolutely no chance of becoming POTUS…. yet.

What’s another name for a Barack Obama who would have decided not to compromise his principles on this issue in the name of political calculus?

Dennis Kucinich.  Ralph Nader or Cynthia McKinney also work.

I think Pam’s sentiment that this was pure political gamesmanship sums it up, though I don’t know that the consequence of a pro-gay marriage position by Barack Obama would necessarily have resulted in a President McCain.  More likely, it would have resulted in a President Clinton, because he never would have won the nomination in the first place had he openly embraced gay marriage.

I would like to place all the blame for the lack of a strong national politician with a strong stance on gay marriage on the politicans at the top, but the truth is, it’s us.  By “us” I don’t mean progressives who post in places like Pandagon, but “us” as in the American public as a whole.  Gay marriage got defeated at the polls in Cali-freaking-fornia.  If it can get knocked down in one of the most progressive states in the country, that tells me that sadly, the vast majority of the populous is quite a long way from reaching the just and enlightened position of creating a Republic that treats ALL of its citizens as equals in the eyes of the law.

The problem isn’t the latent homobigotry of Democratic politicians who don’t have the backbone to fully embrace the right side of this issue.  The problem is the latent homobigotry of this entire country that won’t fully embrace a national politician who fully gets the right way of thinking about this issue.

We, the people, suck.

Comment #17: DTG in STL  on  01/14  at  02:09 PM

“It’s kind of funny that the Roman Catholic Church insists that only the government can declare that people are really married, but only the Roman Catholic Church can declare that people are really divorced.  Gotta pick one or the other, guys—if you accept the marriage license from the state as a go-ahead to marry a couple, you also have to accept the divorce decree from the state.  No more of this, “Well, you’re still married in the eyes of God” if the license from the government is so important to your religious beliefs that you have to make sure that certain people aren’t allowed to get it.”

Sorry m8 you’r wrong. The Church says for us Catholics that you are only truly married whin you are married in the Catholic Church.  As for divorced you can’t have one. You may have an annullment.

A common misconception is that if a marriage is annulled, the Catholic Church is saying the marriage never took place. The parties to the marriage know that the marriage took place. The Church is saying that the marriage was not valid; the valid marriage is what did not take place.

I hope that helps

Comment #18: Michael Mcgreevy  on  01/14  at  02:39 PM

I do find this frustrating and while I wish it weren’t true, I would be more mad about it if Obama weren’t the black guy with the funny name.

I was actually really mad about it until late in the election, when I went to visit some family in a blue state who were considering voting for McCain. This weird level of racism and homophobia I wasn’t even aware was there had shown up. And these are people who raised me progressive, have done so much charity work that helps gay people and minorites, etc.

Hell, WE are minorities. My family is not white. I was so shocked. They wanted “change,” but that much “change” at once made them open to the idea of him as a crazy socialist that the Repubs were trying to peddle.

And that was when I stopped being mad at Obama about it. Sadly, it is the wedge issue now. I think they moved a bit away from abortion as the thing to yell about when they saw how well Hillary did because they assumed most of her supporters would be pro-choice.

I do my best to educate them. I don’t want them coddled, but I do think Obama looks at it as he can get more done by winning than by losing. I think his time as a community organizer has given him very strong info on what gets to people. If there were nothing else obvious about him that seemed “different” and “scary” to people, then I would be more mad.

Comment #19: SuperD  on  01/14  at  02:43 PM

Michael, you appear to be assuming that being a bigot is a binary state.  I think it’s clearly a lot more complicated than that, with people who might be intellectually comfortable with the idea of homosexuality being personally uncomfortable with it at a gut level, etc. (and frankly I expect that’s why “straight allies” have jumped on the same-sex marriage thing when for the most part they were pretty scarce during the sodomy law battles, the hate crime legislation battles, etc).  I think there are a lot of straight “progressives” who are nervous around gay people but still politically support glbt causes.

Comment #20: Melinda  on  01/14  at  02:49 PM

If Obama wanted to not be a hypocrite and yet still be elected (on the EXTREMELY dubious premise- which I actually don’t believe for a second - that supporting marriage equality would have cost him the election), he could just have said that he didn’t believe public opinion was ready, rather than lying and pretending that he changed his opinion for religious reasons.  Sorry, he doesn’t deserve a free pass no matter how you slice it. He DID, after all, claim to be a different kind of politician, one who would always level with us (though you’d have to have been born yesterday to believe that.)

Prop 8 isn’t an example of anything except that outside money can buy an election when the opposing campaign sucks.

Comment #21: Steve LaBonne  on  01/14  at  02:54 PM

Michael

Generally, at Pandagon (I’m using their standard, not mine), either you’re with us (them) all the way, or you are a

homobigot

racist

wingnut

Jew hater

misogynist

etc

No grey areas are allowed, nor is tepid agreement.  You gotta run the flag up the flagpose, salute it and send money (well, maybe not money).

That’s the Pandagon standard.  By that standard, Obama is a homobigot.  He is, after all, as President (OK, in few days) standing in the way of gays having the right to marry.  He could actually do something about it, but won’t.

In fairness, and to be consistent, he should be referred to as such (here).

Comment #22: Libertarian  on  01/14  at  03:01 PM

‘Michael, you appear to be assuming that being a bigot is a binary state. “Melinda

I am sorry Melinda I dont understand you. Could you pls try and say that some other way?

I thought Libertarian was trying to say folks here would not call Obama is a homobigot because he is black. I was trying to point out that the folks here would call him such if that thought he was one.

Comment #23: Michael Mcgreevy  on  01/14  at  03:08 PM

Libertarian I like to think you are wrong about that. However I too have felt that way at times.

Comment #24: Michael Mcgreevy  on  01/14  at  03:24 PM

Michael, I suspect that Obama isn’t comfortable with gay people.  I basically don’t give a crap if he is or isn’t, however, as long as he supports and implements good policies.  And I don’t know what it would mean to call him a bigot if he’s not comfortable with gay people but supports and implements good policies.

Comment #25: Melinda  on  01/14  at  03:35 PM

I’ve been thinking about gay marriage a lot lately.  What got me started on it was thinking about my marriage, and what marriage means to me.  My wife and I aren’t religious (we’re atheists, but I don’t really like that word because I feel like it describes my beliefs in comparison to what others believe).  Anyway, our marriage doesn’t have any religious connotation.  What marriage meant to us is that it made us a family.  It made us family with each other, even though we weren’t born related.  And not just in a “we’re just like family” or “we’re practically family” kind of way, but in a “we are really, in the eyes of the law, each other’s family” way.  And, in that sense, it wasn’t any more religious than an adoption.

The problem, and I think this has a lot to do with why divorce rates are so high, is that to religious people, marriage isn’t about becoming each other’s family.  It’s a license to have sex and not have it be adultery in God’s eyes.  And that’s why they get hung up on gay marriage.  Marriage, to them, is God’s sanction to have sex, and sex between gay people, in their minds, can’t ever be sanctioned by God.

Comment #26: Wallace  on  01/14  at  03:39 PM

Melinda tks that helps a ton. grin

Comment #27: Michael Mcgreevy  on  01/14  at  03:51 PM

“to religious people, marriage isn’t about becoming each other’s family.  It’s a license to have sex and not have it be adultery in God’s eyes.  And that’s why they get hung up on gay marriage.  Marriage, to them, is God’s sanction to have sex, and sex between gay people, in their minds, can’t ever be sanctioned by God. “

Maybe for some… marrage is Gods sanction to have sex. However for us Catholics

Catechism of the Catholic Church


2210 The importance of the family for the life and well-being of society entails a particular responsibility for society to support and strengthen marriage and the family. Civil authority should consider it a grave duty “to acknowledge the true nature of marriage and the family, to protect and foster them, to safeguard public morality, and promote domestic prosperity.”

Comment #28: Michael Mcgreevy  on  01/14  at  04:01 PM

Wallace- I’ve never seen it so perfectly put. I think that’s 100% correct on all counts.

Comment #29: Steve LaBonne  on  01/14  at  04:02 PM

I eat poo. ‘s tasty.

Comment #30: DodgeRam  on  01/14  at  04:29 PM

Mcgreevy,

I like Catholics.  I went to a Catholic university, and have a lot of great friends who are Catholic.  But I think your post is a bit of sleight of hand.  I’m not exactly sure what your position on gay marriage is, but I understand the Catholic church is opposed to it.  And while your quote of the catechism has marriage and family together in the same sentence, it doesn’t actually come out and say what marriage is for you Catholics, or why gays are precluded from being married.

Although in fairness, having been to a Catholic university, I understand Catholics don’t need God’s sanction to have sex.  I was speaking more particularly about Protestants, and particularly Evangelicals.

Comment #31: Wallace  on  01/14  at  05:34 PM

I eat poo. ‘s tasty.

Comment #32: DodgeRam  on  01/15  at  10:42 AM

Um, so what?

 

Seriously, what’s your point?

Comment #33: johnsturgeon  on  01/15  at  11:16 AM

I eat poo. ‘s tasty.

Comment #34: DodgeRam  on  01/15  at  01:27 PM

Let’s all remember that Clinton signed the executive order and also, I believe, a bill that the Democratic Congress passed.

Nice going Bill. And thanks, Democrats!

Comment #35: seeker6079  on  01/16  at  01:06 AM

I saw Obama at a debate for the Democratic primary for the Illinois senate race in 2004.  Back then, he was considered quite a long-shot for the nomination.  He had a lot of crazy liberal things to say back then which don’t come close to representing his positions now.  For one thing, he suggested lifting the Cuban embargo.  Whether he really is a liberal deep down in his soul just doesn’t matter to me if his actions don’t reflect it.

Comment #36: Jose  on  01/16  at  01:44 PM
Page 1 of 1 pages
Commenting is not available in this channel entry.