“...make sure there’s no chance the slut will show up in a few months talking child support payments and DNA tests. “

Well, somebody sure doesn’t know how Plan B works.

Forget a moment about this heinous scumbag and his sickening, abusive and subversive framer\ of reference.

Why is it socially acceptable to have this as a political topic at all?  Why is it personal sex lives are fair game in the political arena while, say, personal tax habits or needs are not?

Because they’re enormously powerful and seek to implement the abusive goals of others, of course.  That still doesn’t mean it has to be socially acceptable.

This is personal sexual business, no other person or the state could ever know the right thing to do or dictate outcomes.  It’s personal liberty, for god’s sake, mind…your…own…fucking….business.  Plus that little thing called privacy.  Which leads to that so-heralded value of—say it all together now—freedom!

Am I saying scandal or sex crimes should not should not be discussed for those running for public office?  No.  I am saying the pervasive, accepted practice of bullying your way into a person’s consensual, private sex life on whatever freaking whim or hurt or whatever does not and should not be an accepted societal norm as it is now.  Fucking place is full of Ken Star perverts and people think it’s normal.

Very very powerful stuff, yes, probably a total fool’s whim to think abusive cretins couldn’t leave it alone.  Muted consolation eventually arrives at this sorry situation with the knowledge that as least idiots who consistently handle powerful elements almost always have it blow up in their faces, someday.  One has to be extremely careful with such powerful elements and they don’t remotely have the brains for it, if anyone does.  Even one mistake here can really come back to rip you hard.

Maybe, just maybe, if this guy actually looked at women as human beings, he wouldn’t feel the need to get some chick drunk and use her.  He might actually be able to set up some kind of friends with benefits scenario in which instead of getting laid once, he gets laid multiple times.  And with someone of age!  Imagine.

But, no.  That’s not how it goes.  It goes the way he lays it out, and he “forgets” to use his condom (I love that he put those scare quotes in there.  Tells me a lot about guys like him) and then expects her to…what?  I’m not sure.  Those quotes tell me he accidentally-on-purpose forgot.  Which means he wants her to be pregnant and beholden to him. 

What a knob.

“Plan B—the drug that allows guys to breathe a sigh of relief the morning after using some chick for selfish pleasure”

I am sure that the primary purpose of the drug is to allow GUYS to breath a sigh of relief.  Women apparently have no feelings about it and/or stake in the matter of whether or not they get pregnant.

“Women apparently have no feelings about it and/or stake in the matter of whether or not they get pregnant.”

Don’t be silly.  Of course women have feelings about and/or a stake in the matter.  Everyone knows that the female hivemind desperately wants husbands and babies—it’s the only reason they ever have sex.  That’s why you always have to dupe or coerce them if you want sex without a wedding ring or the possibility of fatherhood.

So guys, if you screw a 17-year-old and “forget” to use a condom, remember: Nothing says “thanks a lot, you cheap whore” like the gift of Plan B!

Dude, you’re fifty. This obsession with seventeen year old girls is unhealthy.

Please pardon me. After reading this, and the preceding Supreme Court story, I really, really need to scream.

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Thank you for your understanding. I feel a bit better now. Though I still want to emigrate to a sane country.

Well, somebody sure doesn’t know how Plan B works.

A complete lack of knowledge has never stopped Robert Stacy McCain from commenting on anything.

I often feel like it’s hyperbole when rad-fem blogger Twisty or her commenters announce “Men hate you”—and then Robert Stacy McCain comes along with proof positive that sometimes that statement is flat-out true. That’s some deep misogyny. He really isn’t aware that women are human beings with agency, is he?

A complete lack of knowledge has never stopped Robert Stacy McCain from commenting on anything.

Knowledge would be a hindrance to his particular style of commentary.

This sounds like the writing of a serial rapist. Only I’m sure he doesn’t think of himself that way because he paid for dinner.

“He really isn’t aware that women are human beings with agency, is he?”

It would seem that the kindest possible take on it is that he’s categorically incapable of separating exploitation and woman-harming from non-procreative, non-marital sex.

Discovery Channel has “Shark Week”; History Channel has “Nazi Week” (ok, that’s every week); Pandagon Channel has “Creepy Week.”

Raging Penis Monsters would be an excellent name for a rock band.

Get her drunk on wine coolers, get what you want

Because, you know, it’s impossible that a woman might actually want to have sex with her 17 year-old boyfriend.  Any woman would have to be drunk to have sex because we all know that women hate sex and will only give it to a man if he can trick her or drug her.

Also, in his world, apparently rape never happens, or when it does our judicial system is set up so great that every victim feels comfortable coming forward to get help without worrying about revenge from the rapist or about being blamed for it herself.

I understand his concerns.  Completely dismiss them, but I understand.  Some more teenage boys may be having sex as a result of this rule change, and he’s bothered by the fact that he’s not one of them.  Unsuccessful Vicarious Living is a wingnut art, and he’s just not doing it well.  If he went back to shooting missiles at al Qaeda caravans, determining with models that Bradley fighting vehicles couldn’t run over dogs, or being a better American fighting keyboarder, he’d be doing okay.  But as far as sex goes, this guy is as clueless as Genghis Khan would be at a county fair tractor show.

Big fucking surprise.  An outrageous asshole such as rsm is a complete and totall asshole about every issue.

Next.

Yeah, we have to call them out on it.  It’s just no fucking fun.  And it sure as hell is no surprise.

Tomorrow, rush limbaugh still a big fucking dick.

Just beyond words…how..why?  Whose universe does he live in? 

And he manages that whole little rant without using the word ‘rape’ which is clearly what he’s describing.

Get her drunk so you can rape her, and SHE’S the bad person?  Or my other favorite: “forget” to use the condom and then blame her when she gets pregnant.  Drunk or not, she should have nagged you into being responsible?

some more teenage boys may be having sex as a result of this rule change

I’m sure R. S. McCain truly believes this, but he’s wrong.  I highly doubt that there will be many situations where two teens are making out and realize they have no condom, and the think, “don’t worry about it, I’ll just get Plan B tomorrow on my way to soccer practice.”  Sure, some couples might say that, but they likely would have had sex without the condom even if Plan B weren’t available.  At least those couples will now be less likely to have to deal with an unintentional pregnancy.

No no no, what he’s describing is the woman who gets drunk and later says such in flagrante things as “Why’d you stop, motherfucker?”  Clearly not rape, Billingham.  Obviously.  Duh.

no chance the slut will show up in a few months talking child support payments and DNA tests

I was under the impression that this was what right-wing men wanted….

Wow. That’s beyond not having agency. It’s like the woman in this scenario doesn’t even exist.

no chance the slut will show up in a few months talking child support payments and DNA tests

I was under the impression that this was what right-wing men wanted….

No, the right-wing men want women to be punished with pregnancy for having naughty, naughty sex, but they want women to just leave the poor menz out of it because they don’t deserve that type of punishment.  You see, it’s completely the woman’s fault if sex happens, because women are just so powerful over men, and also because men are just so <strike>emotional</strike> rational that they can’t control themselves when they are faced with the temptation to drug a girl who may or may not want to have sex with them and then take advantage of her.

Shorter Dipshit Feminine Middlename: What! How can guys be kept under control if women want sex and don’t get consequences for failure to keep men from having sex!  Faulty gatekeeping!  The horror!

Notice that his phrasing of the situation is all about the men - never mind what a 17 year old woman may or may not want.

The other thing is, I think people have the wrong idea about Plan B with the whole “popping a pill” thing. Oh, it will be “too easy,” they moan, whatever that means. You know that none of these people have ever taken it. It’s not the worst thing in the world, but I felt really nauseous and generally like shit for a day and a half. I most definitely resolved to be more careful in the future so as not to have to do that ever again.

Oh, and this all ignores the fact that Plan B means throwing up for two straight days for the female involved - at least, for many females who use it.  I somehow don’t think it will be a casual situation.

Chigona - JINX!

I don’t think this is about men having access to satisfyingly nsa sex in the least - this is about the fear of women having access to satisfyingly nsa sex - something the pill did that ruined the perfect society of the 1950s (notice I didn’t say Rockwell painting because Rockwell wasn’t exactly blind to the problems of that era if you look at his work as a whole).

Sometimes I wonder how straight men with tendencies towards basic human decency ever get past these portrayals of sex as “using” or “conquering” or “owning” those cheap, slutty women enough to have sex with someone they actually like without feeling horribly guilty about it. I’m not even a dude and it still took me forever to learn that sex isn’t actually inherently disrespectful.

I doubt many guys would be unwilling to pick up a condom but totally cool with shelling out seventy bucks every time they have sex.  Also I think this is one of those favors douchebags won’t do for chicks.  If he won’t go on a tampon run for you, odds are he won’t pick up your Plan B.

the drug that allows guys to breathe a sigh of relief the morning after using some chick for selfish pleasure

I wasn’t aware that Plan B could only be administered by male force.  I thought mostly women desired to take it.  Which is strange, since obviously all women at all points in time want to get pregnant and trap a man.  Certainly we’re not out having sex for the fun of it. The only reason is man trapping.

The good news is that the more wingnuts claim that sex is about men “using” women and can never be about anything else, the longer it continues to be funny for women to joke about using men for their cocks.

Am I to understand correctly that date rape would be less frequent without birth control methods?  If this is what McCain thinks of Plan B, I’d love to hear his rant against condoms.

But… but… but… if a guy can just throw on a latex sleeve without fear of getting infected or getting his victim pregnant, he’ll just start raping anyone he wants.  Why, there would be no stopping an individual - free from the fear of future disease or parenthood - from embarking on a serial rampage of sexual assaults.

I know if i… er… someone people know had access to a box of condoms, no woman within driving distance would be safe from my… er… his raging penis.

Can someone do a background check on this guy?  I want to know if he’s got a record.

A good percentage of the women we saw at the clinic were there because they thought the men weren’t good father material.  They aborted because of the who the father was.  They didn’t want to be tied to him for the rest of their lives or they didn’t want him to be a parent to their child.  Seems to me like the “using people just for sex” thing goes both ways.

semi_factual: not just guys. How many 17-year-old girls have that much extra cash around that they’d rather drop $70 per shag on birth control than, um, less than that for almost anything else? Like, something that doesn’t make you feel sick all day?

This seems to be a disgustingly typical wingnut mindset: complete and utter inability to distinguish between “X is possible” and “Oh, well then everyone will *just* do X…” like nothing that can conceivably be *done* could possibly be inconvenient, painful, expensive, or otherwise provide incentive to do something else. It’s just possible v. not possible, hereby erroneously framed as legal v. not legal. Like those idiots who think women will “just use abortion for birth control” if we stop shaming them at every corner, as if anyone with any other options whatsoever would EVER be like “nah, I’d rather have painful and invasive surgery.”

Understanding the expense and the hassle of resorting to Plan B as birth control would mean that he has learned too much factual information to issue a proper wingnut opinion.  The lofty moralizing should never be tainted or defiled by factual reality.

thecynicalromantic: You’re right about the wingnut mindset.  If it could happen, it not only must happen but is also the next big trend.

Of course it isn’t a logical birth control plan for anyone, that’s why its emergency contraception.  I think wingnuts latch on to it because they think there will be a few more people out there who are susceptible to their lies and b.s.  A few years ago the standard argument was that Plan B is abortion, now its apparently . . . I don’t even know what to call this staggering level of wrong . . . anyway, next week’s fear will be something even less likely, High School Plan B parties or something.

The number one cause of abortion is unintended pregnancy.  Sure, there are other factors, like bad father, financial problems, etc.  But by and large, these things are secondary causes.  Like you want to get rid of the cancer in part because it’s going to make you sick, but mostly you don’t want to die.  Or to make it a little less serious, if you break your finger, you want it to heal because the splint is ugly, sure, but mostly because it’s painful and you want to have use of your hand. 

Why women don’t want to get pregnant is what I think baffles the ‘nuts.  It can’t be that you want to have sex without getting pregnant, because you’re a woman and you’re not that into sex, right?  So, it’s got to be that some man is lying to you.

Plan B is just the ‘morning after pill’, right? It’s not something new we didn’t have around in the 90s, correct?

I’m just glad I live in Quebec then. You can get the morning after pill without prescription at any CLSC or in most high school nurse’s office. And the law says at 14 you don’t need parental consent, for this or to get an abortion or the pill or whathaveyou.

And the world hasn’t ended yet…

Plan B is just the ‘morning after pill’, right? It’s not something new we didn’t have around in the 90s, correct?

Yes.  The difference is that in the United States, it used to require a prescription and recently became OTC.  BTW, I think it’s awesome that in Quebec it is not only available to 14 year-olds, but even easy to get from the nurse’s office.

“I am sure that the primary purpose of the drug is to allow GUYS to breath a sigh of relief.  Women apparently have no feelings about it and/or stake in the matter of whether or not they get pregnant. “

GumbyAnne, you put that about as good as it can be put.

Um…I’m pretty sure he just described rape. Let’s see get a chick wasted and then when she has lost the ability to consent “use her” without any input or debate about things like condoms etc (and apparently the sole fear of child support is all that’s keeping him using a condom? It’s like when the fundies talk about how God is the only thing keeping them from killing people, makes you look askew at the assumption of morals) and then drag her to the CVS without input on that extending the male figures removal of agency to the next day.

Now I might not be an expert, but I’m pretty sure that a morning after pill is the minimum you want after some guy rapes you and if this douche believes that publicly knowing younger women have a minimal increase in agency will cause a massive rape campaign by the “good ol boy” set, then who exactly is it that has the low opinion of men in this country?

Ugh, most days I ind myself wishing I could just shoot all the fuckers into space. Hell, put them in the nicest sex-robot filled pleasure spaceships that money could buy so that we could actually try to better ourselves for say 20 years without these retrobrate moralless douchehounds freaking out over the idea that consent may actually become a whole “thing”.

Cereberus, that’s the problem when you don’t think women actually enjoy sex for its own sake.  Perversely, this means you don’t tend to think rape is rape, because all sex requires pressuring, cajoling, and sometimes forcing a woman to have sex.  What legitimizes it is if she gets pregnant and can force you to be responsible.  It’s a bleak view of humanity, where men and women hate each other and can only interact through violence, coercion, and hostility.

I would just like to say for the record that when I took Plan-B I had absolutely no unpleasant effects.

I felt really nauseous and generally like shit for a day and a half

I’ve never taken Plan B, but the one time I took a forgotten BCP as directed—which turned out to be with the next day’s—I ended up throwing up in a convenience-store restroom (the strong chemical smell of cleaners pushed me over the edge).  It’s too massive a dose of hormones to be ‘easy’ for most women.

A good percentage of the women we saw at the clinic were there because they thought the men weren’t good father material…  Seems to me like the “using people just for sex” thing goes both ways.

Maybe, although IIRC there was a recent study showing (no, I don’t know how well-constructed it was) that a fair number of women seeking abortions hadn’t necessarily been all that averse to pregnancy… until they were pregnant.  Between that and the smallish number of totally subjective anecdotes I’ve heard, my inclination is to think that the men’s responses to the news of pregnancy are fairly often what makes women decide against having a child with them, not necessarily ‘using’ them for sex.  And to me that makes sense—we sentimentalize pregnancy and parenting so much, with an added frosting of heavy consumerism, that it’s certainly plausible enough to think that unrealistic expectations can lead to pregnancies, sudden negative assessments of men as fathers/partners, and subsequent abortions.

I don’t know if we can teach people to be realistic, though; this country runs on romantic narcissism and soft-focus mythologies.

I just went over there and all I can say is, at least the comments are pointing out what a dick RSM is.

“While I’m never one to say inflammatory things”

that made me laugh. Thank you.

Is this guy married?

He could help himself out a lot by asking his wife to review his nonsense before blasting it out.

When I took plan B I just experienced cramps and mild bleeding, which wasn’t the end of the world but not something I’d like to pay another $40 (and that in PP subsidized prices) to experience.  It’s a fantastic little pill, though.

Wow. That’s beyond not having agency. It’s like the woman in this scenario doesn’t even exist.

As a friend of mine once said, some guys just want a fist, with tits…

As a friend of mine once said, some guys just want a fist, with tits…

Or as our own commenter Wallace earnestly stated in the Eliot Spitzer thread on Pandagon:

I don’t think you need to be a guy who has something seriously wrong with you to think that, if you’re going to ejaculate anyway, it would be nice to have breasts and a vagina, and maybe a mouth and neck to kiss, to go along with your masturbation.

Is this guy married?

He could help himself out a lot by asking his wife to review his nonsense before blasting it out.

Not if his wife is from the Phyilis Schfly (sp) school of human relations, then she’d be just as bad.

@Mrs. W

Now it all makes sense! The drugged and passed out rape victim should have staple-gunned a condom to the guy’s dick before she sat down a few people down from him at the bar! Remember girls: condoms and a staple gun are the only way to keep conservative men happy. And that’s your only goal in life.

<blcokquote>Certainly we’re not out having sex for the fun of it. The only reason is man trapping. </blockquote>

Au contraire Amanda! I’m in it for the pelts!
And many many Armani! (and poutine later on)
*puts on French Canadian trapper’s cap and rows off down the street on canoe on wheels*

I would just like to say for the record that when I took Plan-B I had absolutely no unpleasant effects.

Same. But cheap BCP were giving me giant migraines until I switched to the NuvaRing a year and a half ago. No more headaches/migraines (unless they’re from plain ol’ stress).
Guh. Hormones.

Ahhhh, being singled out for verbal abuse by the douchebag who called for the public slut-shaming of pregnant seventeen year old Bristol Palin at the Republican National Convention. I’m gonna have to put that on my resume.

it seems that part of the reason that some women get abortions [...] is because of the overwhelming and disproportionate social shaming that comes with getting pregnant the “wrong” way.

Or maybe they don’t want to have the child.

‘Cause women can have agency like that sometimes you know, and impudently do things to please themselves and not because of overwhelming social pressures.

I know. Scandalous. Don’t tell the wingnuts.

What! How can guys be kept under control if women want sex and don’t get consequences for failure to keep men from having sex!  Faulty gatekeeping!  The horror!

Ms Kate, that is the funniest thing I’ve read today. *bow*

OMG! I just read his updated rebuttal to this post! Have you seen it, Jesse?

There are no words to describe that level of ignorance!

“How many 17-year-old girls have that much extra cash around that they’d rather drop $70 per shag on birth control than, um, less than that for almost anything else? Like, something that doesn’t make you feel sick all day?”

Sounds like more support for the idea that the guy is ONLY thinking of men his age getting to screw the 17 year-olds. He can afford it. What are 17 year-old boys doing having sex, anyway? That limits the number of young women HE has access to.

Also: the change in OTC availability for 17-year-olds would not change anything in the example given by McCain.  Men over the age of 18 (now 17) can buy the drug themselves, so what age their partner is does not matter one bit as long as the man is old enough and willing to walk up to the pharmacy window.

Also, minors can get a prescription from Planned Parenthood on a walk-in basis with very little to-do and no parental involvement.

So what this rule change does is save people who are exactly 17 years old (and don’t have an older person to buy Plan-B for them) about 45 minutes worth of trouble weaiting to be seen at Planned Parenthood.  Get yourselves up off the fainting couch, conservatives, I think the world is not ending today.

Men over the age of 18 (now 17) can buy the drug themselves

Is that right? I know that some drugs fall into a nether region between OTC and prescription-only. For these pills, the pharmacist wants to discuss cautions with the person who will be taking it.

I work at Planned Parenthood (on the phone, not in a clinic) and I know that we sell it to any person 18 and over.  We also give it to patients who come in for other things, just cause it is good to have around if you are sexually active.  Maybe other pharmacies have different policies.

Checked with my roommate who works in a major chain pharmacy and they sell it to men.  Anybody who buys it is asked if they have any questions for the pharmacist, but they are not required to talk to the pharmacist.

<Robert Plant>

“That’s a whole lotta fail!
(guitar riff)
That’s a whole lotta fail!
(guitar riff)
That’s a whole lotta faaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiilllllllll!”

</Robert Plant>

I mean, seriously, WTF?  In his rebuttal, the guy seriously references observational humor comedians to support his claim that, Gosh Darn It, men and women are just different.  Therefore, you know, the only benefit of Plan B is that it makes it easier for sleazy guys to have casual sex without consequences—the only benefit!  Women don’t want casual sex!  Ever!  Anyone who disagrees is some sort of Moonbat Radical Egalitarian who ignores science, common sense, and observational comedians.

I’ll repeat: W.T.F.?

I need to chime in with everyone who says read the updates.  The updates are amazing.

Thanks for checking, gumbyanne.

In his rebuttal, the guy seriously references observational humor comedians to support his claim that, Gosh Darn It, men and women are just different.  Therefore, you know, the only benefit of Plan B is that it makes it easier for sleazy guys to have casual sex without consequences—the only benefit!

Even if you accept the basic premise that men and women are different and men are more likely to want NSA sex and women are more likely to want sex in relationships, how does that lead to “all men think women who have sex are filthy dirty whores”?

I know plenty of guys in real life who absolutely do not identify as feminist, and as far as I can tell, their attitude toward getting laid is “Woot! I got to have sex! I’m happy and grateful!”

Even if you accept the basic premise that men and women are different and men are more likely to want NSA sex and women are more likely to want sex in relationships, how does that lead to “all men think women who have sex are filthy dirty whores”?

There seems to be fair amount of self-hatred at play here.  It’s like that old saying about not wanting to belong to a club that would have someone like me as a member.  If she gives it up to a douche bag like me, then she must be a skanky whore because, you know, I’m a douche bag. 

(And by “me” I mean R.S. McCain and his ilk—not Me.  Whatever self-esteem issues I have, I am invariably grateful to my sexual partners, and more than willing to take an active role in birth control.  “The Plan B’s on me, baby!”—that’s my motto.  Because that’s just the kind of guy I am.)

What amazes me the most about McCain is that conservative bloggers legitimately think this guy is a rising star and immensely important, and that if he was just given a shot, he could really shake things up.

Caitlan Flangan has pulled ahead of Alec Baldwinin the Creepy Derby, but coming round the curve, it’s R.S. McCain… McCain is gaining on Flanagan… they’re neck and neck, and it’s anyone’s guess who will be first to the finish line!

/racetrack announcer