Wolfson is a fucking cretin.  Wolfson publicly saying this would have thrown the primary just backs up the assertion that yes, he is stupid and grievously so.

As the article points out, once Edwards withdrew from the race, Obama won eleven states in a row. Edwards obviously had benefited from the anyone-but-Hillary vote that Obama inherited after he withdrew. Hard to see how Hillary could have benefited from the anyone-but-Hillary vote.

Jesse, I think your point is correct.  But just a thought: when referring to a pro-Clinton comment, shall we relieve the adjective “bitter” from duty?  Having had a heavy workout since March, it now brings a whiff of misogynous body odor.  I’d send it to the showers.

The main problem with the idea that we can’t use “bitter” to describe the few remaining legitimate Clinton supporters, or Clinton and/or her behavior itself, is that, well, those are perfectly legitimate words to use in this situation.  I’d also call Bill bitter, and in fact think his behavior in all this has been much worse (and think the fact that the Clinton campaign has trotted him out so much is actually rather sexist).  If the situation was reversed, I’d be calling Obama and his remaining supporters “bitter” as well.  And, no, I probably wouldn’t switch to some other word that was subtle code for black rather than female, I’d pick bitter because it’s pretty much the ideal choice of words.

When you act bitter, people will probably feel tempted to call you bitter.

I thought “bitter” was a bad word to apply to white men.

I’m clinging to my God, my guns, and my Hillary-wuz-robbed hypotheticals. As a hard-working, white (what’s the opposite of an oxymoron? a tautology?) American, that’s all I’ve got.

Wolfson is a fucking cretin.  Wolfson publicly saying this would have thrown the primary just backs up the assertion that yes, he is stupid and grievously so.

And now he’s working for Faux News. I’m sure Hillary’s supporters must be so pleased that millions of their donations went to this incompetent’s consulting fees. And speaking of Hillary supporters…

when referring to a pro-Clinton comment, shall we relieve the adjective “bitter” from duty?

Why? Seems like a perfectly accurate, gender-neutral descriptor of people who can’t accept reality. I mean, I’m still bitter over the last 8 years.

Hey, if your candidate turns out to be anything other than American-born, guess who’ll be “bitter” then?
I am happy so long as the Dems put up an electable candidate, and not someone mired in scandal. I keep wondering why Obama went to Hawaii for a vacation, and if he spent any part of his time in the Records and Vital Statistics Office…

Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda. Sorry, Clinton, you lost. And no amount of soul-searching and hypotheticals can change that. Better start preparing your Keynote address at the DNC though!

http://liberalretort.blogspot.com/

Clinton may have lost the primaries, but if Obama doesn’t meet the requirements to run for office, then she’s next in line. Sorry, no amount of photo-shop can change that.

I have come to like Obama. He was my second choice, and far superior to Edwards, who I hated from the get-go). But I am a little concerned about why these stupid rumors persist and why the Obama camp won’t simply oput an end to them. Producing the dang document should be easy enough and he will need to do so sooner or later, so why not cough it up and let this story die?

Concern troll is concerned over a non-issue.

Foucault: I’ve heard a rumor that Obama actually doesn’t have a human father at all, and that top-secret government tests have shown that he has extraterrestrial DNA. This would certainly account for his ability to mesmerize crowds. Why doesn’t he disprove this persistent rumor that I won’t let die?

I hope you don’t mean moi, because I think being able to prove that one is who one says one is happens to be a pretty major issue for politicians, not to mention ordinary people. Why can’t he produce the real document? He was surely in Hawaii in part for that purpose; why else take a week off at the height of the campaign? I hope he found what he was looking for…

“Foucault: I’ve heard a rumor that Obama actually doesn’t have a human father at all, and that top-secret government tests have shown that he has extraterrestrial DNA. This would certainly account for his ability to mesmerize crowds. Why doesn’t he disprove this persistent rumor that I won’t let die?”

The human DNA would be relatively easy to prove. One could take a sample of his DNA and compare it against a wide range of humans, with predictable results. But it’s not so easy to produce an authentic birth certificate if it doesn’t exist, or if the original one was sealed at the time that Obama was adopted. The original one (if there is indeed a different original than the forged document posted online) is important to obtain, because without it he is ineligible and HILARY RULES SUPREME, or else McCain wins uncontested.

Also, I hope he found all those copies of the video of Michelle saying “whitey” and destroyed them.

The “Whitey” thing is stupid. The BC mystery is not quite so trivial.

Considering the BC mystery is being hyped up by the same suspects that brought us ‘Whitey’, I’d say that yes - it really is trival.  Your continued concern is noted.

The BC mystery has been reported in a number of news sources, as far away as Israel. I don’t have a concern until this turns into another John Edwards type scandal, where lo and behold, the National Enquirer was right all along.

Just because the source seems asinine doesn’t always mean that they don’t have a story.

You’ll be concerned, too, if Obama can’t run.

I like how this comment thread appears, at first glance, to have derailed, but in fact has jumped right back on the rails as a perfect example of “clinging to hypotheticals.”

The BC ‘mystery’ would be a hell of a surprise to the oppo research staffs of Jack Ryan, Alan Keyes, John Edwards, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, and everyone else that Obama’s run against.

There’s no there there outside of Agent Flowbee, but I guess if someone in Israel reported it (rense.net?) there must be something to it!  We must be concerned!

Like I said, wait and see. You never know what might turn up these days.

But I don’t think the BC thing is Obama’s biggest worry as of this moment. I’m more troubled that the MSM media is turning against him, as I knew they would. It is clearly not in the interest of the super wealthy to see Obama win, and I am sure that his “celebrity” problems are just beginning.

Concern troll is really concerned.

Not nearly as concerned as Obama’s hardcore fans will be if he can’t find his birth certificate!

Like I said, he was only my second choice. I won’t cry if Clinton has to step up to the plate and replace him.

Concern troll is still concerned and is a horrible liar too.

Foucault’s right. Why would a middle-class Chicago family take (1) a week’s vacation (2) in August, before the kids have to go back to school, (3) in Hawaii, of all places, when Starved Rock State Park is within easy driving distance? Never mind that the kids’ Grandma lives in Hawaii—if you can’t drive there, you shouldn’t be going.

“celebrity” problems

Americans don’t like people who lots of Americans like!

And you’re a moron who thinks that “concern troll” is some sort of catch-all phrase to dismiss any question. The people who are really “concerned” about Obama’s credentials will not let this drop. And if he can’t get his documents in order, then this right wing “gossip” will eventually become news.

It’s the same thing as Edwards: a socialist-leaning loser who keeps denying the affair when there is in fact something to hide. Republican operatives don’t just say, “Okay, I guess that’s all there is to it.” They will keep at this until they find out that Obama’s a legit American, or that he’s not.

In short, your vote doesn’t really matter. Your silly “concern troll” will mean crap to those who have a need to know.

“Foucault’s right. Why would a middle-class Chicago family take (1) a week’s vacation (2) in August, before the kids have to go back to school, (3) in Hawaii, of all places, when Starved Rock State Park is within easy driving distance? Never mind that the kids’ Grandma lives in Hawaii—if you can’t drive there, you shouldn’t be going.”

Because they can’t find their father’s original birth certificate, which was issued in Hawaii when he was a baby, before he was adopted by his stepfather? And they don’t want the world to know, so rather than mailing away for the information, he will make a quick visit to the Office of Vital Statistics to see if a new one can be issued while he is still in the state? That’s what i assume.

Obama left a private note at the Wall of Jerusalem, and some jerk picked that out and published pieces of it. So of course he would be wary of leaving a paper trail if there is no birth certificate to be found. But I suspect that there is. Which should be the end of the problem.

Because they can’t find their father’s original birth certificate

Have you gotten a copy of your birth certificate lately? Because nowadays virtually all that they say is that you were born. Best hang on to the copy your mom and dad got, if you want to retain the details.

they don’t want the world to know, so rather than mailing away for the information

So the Postal Service is a bunch of blabber mouths? Because the same county clerk’s office will process the request whether it comes by mail or is handed over the counter.

My husband recently obtained a copy of his BC. He is roughly Obama;s contemporary, and his BC includes the name of his father and mother’s maiden name, plus where he was born and his race.

If Obama was adopted, then the story is that his original BC would have been sealed. I doubt he would have a copy of the original so many years later, since he was 5 when he was adopted. But Hawaii should be able to provide an original copy.

The Postal Service is forbidden by law from opening your mail. But with Republicans looking for a weakness, one can never be sure. I think the fact that he is going to Hawaii without his campaign and with a lack of press is telling. He is there to get something accomplished, and I think it is finding his original birth certificate.

it’s not the kids’ grandmother who lives in hawaii, by the way. It’s his own grandmother.

I’m more troubled that the MSM media is turning against him, as I knew they would.

Your use of the word highlighted above is what’s confusing people regarding the concern trolling. Unless by “troubled” you mean (as I think you do) “gleeful.”

Foucault—so your husband was born in Hawaii? Then the birth certificate thing is indeed weird.

I don’t know what you called your great-grandmother, growing up. But we just called ours Grandma.

As I said, Obama was not my first choice, but he was also not my last choice. I’m not a PUMA nor am I someone who rallies against my own interests. As such, i have accepted Obama as the presumptive nominee and want him to do well. I like his recent remarks on the death penalty, and I like the fact that he seems to be a centrist rather than a left-of-center type like Edwards. I initially thought he would surround himself with idiots like Edwards and Samantha Powers, but that seems highly unlikely now that both of those asshats have revealed their true colors. So I think in general, Obama will make an excellent President.

That said, however, i am concerned that there is always the possibility of things beyond his control. If he doesn’t have a birth certificate to prove his American birth (which is totally possible, since I had to reorder my own a couple of times in my life, and it is a process), then he needs to sort that out. i am sure he was probably born in Hawaii, and that should be easy enough to establish.

The bigger thing for me is that the media is largely in the hands of the right wing, and it is becoming clearer and clearer that they intend to put Obama on the defensive. It’s just like what happened with Clinton, only now it is a black man perceived as “elitist” rather than a woman perceived as “bitter” and sneaky.

Hector, if your great-grandmother was still alive when you were growing up, then I suspect your family must have started breeding pretty young. Mine did not. I have no idea what you are talking about re: Hawaii birth certificates, but even the forged one had a mother’s name and father’s name on it, plus racial information and place of birth. That’s basically the deal with 1950s and 1960s birth certificates that i ahve seen. Do you know something i don’t?

Foucault, your concern has been noted.

I think some other idiot already used that line. Try to be a bit more original.

Concern troll is concerned he’s not fooling anyone.

Glad to see that even a royal retardo like you can pick up on my concern!

Concern troll, realizing nobody is believing the bullshit, resorts to insults.

“If the Clinton’s couldn’t do that, it seems unlikely that John McCain can.”

I don’t recall that the Clintons ever tried.

I suspect your family must have started breeding pretty young. Mine did not.

Because you seem interested, my great-grandmother was 27 when my grandmother was born; my grandmother was 24 when my father was born, and my father was 26 when I was born. None of these ages seem exceptional to me.  Did your forebears postpone marriage till their 30s? Sadly, my great-grandmother did not live to see me graduate high school.

I seriously doubt the State of Hawaii’s Department of Health forged Obama’s birth certificate, by the way. It is the identical format to the one I got myself 5-6 years ago, from my birth county. At least for those over 40 or so, Vital Statistics departments no longer issue photo reproductions of the original birth certificate. You can no longer see their residence address, professions, doctor’s name, hospital’s name, etc.

But I am a little concerned about why these stupid rumors persist and why the Obama camp won’t simply oput an end to them. Producing the dang document should be easy enough and he will need to do so sooner or later, so why not cough it up and let this story die?

He did.  It’s up on his website.  It’s been the subject of much scrutiny, all of which has come to the conclusion that it is an authentic copy of his birth certificate.

And yet the right wing has you completely convinced that there’s something hinky here even though he has publicly released his birth certificate and it is easily available with two seconds of Googling.

Trolling, or stupid?  I’m going with brain-dead, idiotically stupid to still be riding a pony that was put down two months ago for everyone but the No Quarter conspiracy theorists.

Thanks Mnem,

I plead stupid.

I honestly didn’t realize this had been sorted out, but the link you posted seems to confirm that this is a dead horse.

And Hector, thanks for sharing your family tree.

Fuck this hypocritical asshole.

The sheer hypocrisy of the former Communication Director of the candidate whose husband was involved in the biggest sex scandal in Washington in the past 50 years speculating about the negative consequences of another politician’s sex scandal is mind-blowing.

Not only is his claim stunningly idiotic and harmful, it has even less credibility than the claim that Bill Clinton is personally responsible for the deaths of 4,400 US troops in Iraq.

No Lewinsky Scandal = Al Gore Presidency.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind, given the extremely close nature of the 2000 election, that Al Gore would have gotten the 500 necessary centrist independent votes in Florida to win that state if Bill had kept his pecker in his pants.  The mushy middle gave Bush a tiny advantage because they were fatigued by Bill’s dick problems, and Al Gore suffered because of his association with Bill.

Al Gore Presidency = No Iraq War.

Ergo, if Bill didn’t feel compelled to play sausage darts with the intern, Bush would be off snorting coke with his frat buddies in Crawford, Al Gore would be the 43rd POTUS, and we wouldn’t currently be mired in the clusterfuck of Iraq.

Does Bill Clinton owe America an apology for giving us George W. Bush?

Foucault wrote:

The people who are really “concerned” about Obama’s credentials will not let this drop.

By “the people” do you mean the 17 or so PUMAs still hanging out with Alegre and over at Hillaryis44.org clinging to a campaign that died more than 2 months ago?

Are those “the people” you speak of?

DTG, I see you are among the illiterate. Sorry that you were a child left behind.

So tell me, Foucault, do you really believe that the Lewinsky scandal had absolutely NO adverse effect whatsoever on Al Gore in 2000?

Do you really, honestly believe that there wasn’t at least a tiny group of Americans who call themselves “independents” who may have voted for Gore had they not been fatigued by Bill’s horniness?

By the “official” count (SCOTUS decision), Gore lost Florida by about 500 votes.  Out of nearly 6 million votes.  Don’t you suppose that maybe, just maybe, that it is at least plausible that under more favorable circumstances (like not having Bill’s sex scandal hanging over him like a cloud), Al Gore could have won 0.0093% more votes in Florida than he did?

It’s a great big fat, could, woulda, shoulda, and it doesn’t matter, because what happened happened and this is where we are.  Which is also true regarding how the Iowa caucus played out, and the pointlessness of Wolfson’s claim.

My argument about Clinton may indeed be absurd and is at a minimum irrelevant.  But it is far less absurd and irrelevant than the ranting of a hack Fox News “analyst” crying over spilled-milk because his candidate lost.

i can haz killfile nao?

No, really, has anybody managed to get killfile working here? ‘cause I *desperately* need it…

THE PUMAS ARE TOTALLY JUSTIFIED ...

1.    Contrary to what Obamabots say ...
  Obama and Hillary were in a dead heat,
  when the DNC pressured Hillary into not
  only conceding, but campaigning for Obama.
2.    Obama is once again in a dead heat, but now
  with McCain, even though Obamabots act like
  Obama has already won (like they did in the
  primaries against Hillary). So, this means that
  half of the Democrats, and all the Republicans
  (3/4 of America) dIdn’t want Obama. Plus, he
  didn’t even win the popular vote, and refused a
  revote in Michigan and Florida.
3.    Obama has the thinnest resume in politics, and
  he won state legislature and Senator by
  disqualifications of his opponents, not by earned
  experience, or votes.
4.  Obama’s one claim to fame is being a community
  organizer, where he boasts of registering voters.
  Then he took their votes away from them, by
  disqualifying his opponents on technicalities, prior
  to the election.
5.  Obama’s mentor of 20 years, was an anti-American
  racist ... not to mention other unsavory associations.
6.  Obama is simply buying the election, since he’s
  good at fund raising ... hardly a qualification to be
  President of the United States.
7.    The media never vetted Obama, and they are
  giving him a free ride, plus more than twice the
  print and air time as McCain, as they did against
  Hillary.
8.    90% of blacks are voting for Obama, because he is
  black, while the campaign gained ground by
  accusing most opponents of racism.
9.    Obamabots were, and are extremely nasty and sarcastic
      towards Hillary supporters, as well as McCain supporters.
10.    Pumas should be applauded for putting country before party ...
        especially a party that did not represent them, and a party
        which highjacked the nomination for Obama.