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Next entry: From The “Maybe We Shouldn’t Be Treating These People As Credible” Department Previous entry: Shooter at UT Austin; no one hurt but the shooter

A revolution designed to go nowhere

It’s been a long time coming, in large part because I really spent my time reading and thinking over this book, but I finished it last night and want to recommend it: The Backlash: Right-Wing Radicals, High-Def Hucksters, and Paranoid Politics in the Age of Obama by Will Bunch.  The timing of the book couldn’t be better.  It’s out right as all the trends he crosses the country to record are coming to electoral fruition.  In fact, Bunch spends a lot of time in Delaware, recording the growth of the 9/12 Patriots that eventually managed to oust Mike Castle from his front-runner position and nominate Christine O’Donnell for the Republican slot on the ballot for Delaware Senator.  But he crosses the country from one end to the other, interviewing Tea Party activists.  And what he concludes, at the end of the day, is that all these folks are getting took.

If you want to hear Will talk about his own book, I interviewed him here.  It’s really great, very deep and interesting. 

Which isn’t to say that they’re necessarily wonderful human beings who aren’t playing a major role in their own process of getting took.  They’re generally pretty racist and paranoid, prone to throwing entitled fits and sinking into comforting delusions instead of facing reality.  Even when they’re being nice to Will, it’s hard to shake the general feeling that your average Tea Partier is a sanctimonious bigot who thinks the Jesus whose name they drop so regularly was just kidding when he talked up glass houses.  It’s a testament to Will’s skills as an empathy-driven journalist that he makes the reader still see them as human beings whose emotional needs aren’t being met and who are therefore perfect targets for the not even remotely hidden loose conspiracy of billionaires and Republican politicians who are exploiting them for profit.

The pitch is that the Tea Partiers can make their mark, become important by working with the Tea Party revolution.  The reason they’re getting took is there is no revolution.  It’s just a fantasy constructed to get out the vote and, just as importantly, drain their wallets.

Tea Partiers like to fancy themselves as grassroots organizers, and while Will shows that there is some truth to that, at the end of the day, they’re easy marks for astroturfing efforts like Glenn Beck’s or the Koch brothers’, because they authoritarians who fall in line easily behind leaders.  What Will found is no matter how much any Tea Partiers he met styled themselves as mavericks taking back the country, they tended to be in love with Glenn Beck because they saw him as someone they could follow without asking too many questions, because of “character”.  And said leaders are all about using the language of revolution to meet their own ends, but they’ve carefully crafted a “revolution” that is practically designed to do nothing, for a few reasons that Will is great at teasing out:

*The participants are simply too old.  Invariably, someone will scream “ageist!” when I point this out, eager to police without thinking about nuance.  But it’s not a slam on older people to suggest that you don’t create a revolution out of 50-80-year-olds. You’d be hard-pressed to do it with a group that was mostly over 30.  In fact, it’s a testament to older people that they’re harder to organize in such a way, because their—-our—-main reason to call in sick when things get heated is that we have too much to lose.  This is a repeated theme you can’t take for granted: too much to lose.  On just the revolution standpoint, it’s one thing to buy a bunch of guns and shoot them off on weekends and feel like a big man. It’s another to actually dedicate yourself to the violent overthrow of government. There’s a reason armies, state-sponsored or not, are composed mainly of people 18-24.  It has less to do with how strong they are and everything to do with the fact that it’s way harder to get people to drop it all to fight when “it all” means a spouse, children, responsibilities, attachments—-the kind of things you accumulate with age. 


Invariably, when I point this out, someone trying to score points will point out the occasional outlier of a middle-aged man who does act violently.  Many of our “walk into crowded places and start shooting” types are middle-aged men.  But these guys are outliers.  Look at Scott Roeder, the guy who murdered Dr. George Tiller.  The decades leading up to this crime were a long series of losses that left him with literally nothing left to lose—-his son hates him, he has no wife, he had no home, no family, and he was surrounded by anti-choice fanatics.  You’d probably think prison was an even trade, too.

*Their demands are scattershot and abstract.  Even those things they think they can agree on are incredibly unlikely, in no small part because the goals are so awful the Tea Partiers don’t have the nerve.  Once again, this is a too much to lose situation.  It’s easy to slam big government, but as we’ve discovered from the incoherent political messages put out by the Republicans, the people who oppose “big government” want to hear that this phrase doesn’t include Medicare or Social Security.  Or farm subsidies or disability.  “Big government” is an abstraction that differs from person to person, and usually means “money I’m not getting, but someone else is”.  Organizing behind an empty set of principles can create a lot of momentum, but in terms of setting out a goal and achieving it so everyone can go home?  Not gonna happen.

*They’re more interested in fantasy than realities.  Birthers, Tenthers, militia men, evangelical blooey, keep going.  When what motivates you is basically bullshit, you can always be kept on the hamster wheel with further lies and bullshit.

I cannot emphasize this enough, and I think Will’s book provides a lot of emphasis for this: the conservative movement was created and is maintained to make sure that it’s a hamster wheel of impotent outrage.  The goals are unachievable by design.  The fantasies beget more fantasies.  The people are recruited specifically because they can grouse, give money, and vote, but they won’t do much more than that.  The beast gets to take naps during Republican administrations, when the financiers pull out the propaganda cash to buy their mistresses more nights in hotels with diamonds and bottle service, but it’s always on hand to activate should Democrats ever get power and bring up the threat that the wealthiest people in the country might pay 1% more in taxes. 

Read the book for in-depth reporting on the specifics of how the Tea Partiers are getting took.  I’m particularly intrigued by Will’s theory that the reason this big con is so effective on the Tea Party marks is that it exploits, at the end of the day, the fear of death.  Fear of change is what fuels the racism, the nostalgia for a half-forgotten past, the eagerness to hippie-kick.  And fear of change is rooted in fear of death—-if the world changes so dramatically after you lived, you’re that much more likely to be forgotten and seem like you never mattered at all.  Thus, the way that Tea Partiers are all ears for the high-falutin’ language about how theirs is a revolution that will forever change the world.

I want to take a little time to point to this post of David Neiwert’s as an example of what’s going on.  He’s banking off an article from Justin Elliott, and the gist of it all is that Joe Miller, the Tea Party candidate who is running for Senate from Alaska, is a right wing extremist who is steeped in paranoid nonsense that comes straight from the Patriot militia movement.  Mainly, Miller’s a Tenther, which is someone who is particularly enamored of secessionists fantasies, though these fantasies come in various levels, from outright secession to simply claiming the federal government doesn’t have powers the courts have repeatedly shown that it has. 

Alaska is a particularly good example of how the conservative movement is all hepped up on fantasies that are out of reach, guaranteeing that followers will stay on the hamster wheel of outrage.  As David notes, epic chunks of Alaska are federal property.  As a state, they are more intertwined with the federal government than most, and as a community, they are more dependent on their relationship to the larger American community than most.  The fantasies speak to a desire that can’t actually lived out by the people who have it, or at least not without them paying a price in economic collapse that they’re not willing to pay.  It’s a perfect little outrage wheel, because the goals can be restated and restated and restated for the purposes of getting money and votes out of believers, but everyone has a gentleman’s agreement that actually trying to achieve those goals is madness that would be stopped by political outrage in a second.  It’s so perfect that it’s no wonder the Republicans are warming up to the idea of making paranoid outrage their entire party platform.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:28 AM • (114) Comments

I have seen this change in myself as I’ve grown older. At 49 my beliefs are certainly no less radical (maybe more so), but I don’t have the same burning passion to see them become reality that I once did.
And a lot of it is that I’m more settled and have a lot more to lose if I expend all my energies in that direction.
At this point in my life I’m finally financially comfortable (own a home, have a cat and a wife, etc.). When I was 30 I didn’t have much of anything ($1,000 car, slept on the floor, needed a roommate to keep an apartment).
The world looks different from this side, at least in terms of the energy I’m willing to invest in things.
I hate to say it, but it’s true.

Comment #1: round guy  on  09/29  at  11:48 AM

Matt Taibbi has a really good article in an upcoming Rolling Stone that covers this as well:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/210904

Comment #2: krizriktr  on  09/29  at  12:00 PM

The fear of death angle is an interesting point - I’d been thinking about much the same thing as the TPers’ wanting their youth back, and thinking that rolling back social progress to the 1950s might somehow achieve that. That the 1950s society they idolize never actually happened is no impediment.

Comment #3: Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist  on  09/29  at  12:09 PM

One thing that is so funny and telling about these people: in generations past (like when my parents were growing up), it was undereducated poor white “Okies” and “Arkies” who wandered the country picking and tending to crops.  Now their children, who had much more opportunity and better health due to the great society programs, are the core of the Teabagging movement.

The irony is that when the children of the Okies and Arkies left the fields, the Mexicans really did take their jobs!

Comment #4: Ms Kate  on  09/29  at  12:17 PM

When hard-right conservatives say they’re opposed to “government,” or “big government,” they don’t mean the things they get from the government.  They deserve those, because they work hard and play by the rules.  The reason why America’s got problems, they think, is that “big government” doles out too much to other people (ahem) who don’t deserve it.  They don’t think the government should tell them what to do; they think the government should give them what they deserve; they think the government gives too generously to some other group of people out there, who are therefore taking advantage of the hard-working, rules-playing-by people.  To me the key is that they always see themselves as being victimized or neglected by the government, never benefiting from it; and they think that somewhere out there is a group of people making out like bandits, costing the country billions upon billions of dollars, and they’re not going to take that anymore.  It’s totally false, but that’s the worldview we’re dealing with:  “I’m working hard like a chump, just scraping by, and Those People are living it up on handouts made up of My Money.” 

When they say “government” or “the deficit,” that’s what they mean:  spending on undeserving, ungrateful, lazy people.  Not them.  They’re deserving.  They can’t be the problem.

Comment #5: FlipYrWhig  on  09/29  at  12:27 PM

It’s a perfect little outrage wheel, because the goals can be restated and restated and restated for the purposes of getting money and votes out of believers, but everyone has a gentleman’s agreement that actually trying to achieve those goals is madness that would be stopped by political outrage in a second.

This is exactly what happened when O’Donnell got the GOP nomination for Senate—out came Karl Rove and Dick Armey (of the Koch-funded Freedomworks, which laid down the Tea Party astroturf in the first place) to denounce her. Both of these grifters were happy to use Teabaggers as the natural-born marks that they are, and they’d certainly like all the Senate seats they can get, but they’re not about to let these Know-Nothing fantasists anywhere near the levers of power.

Really nice piece, Amanda.

Comment #6: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  12:35 PM

I think the worm is turning, and the teabaggers have already hit their peak. It’s only downhill from here for them.

If the Republicans take back the House, they’re going to go away once they realize that this won’t make a damn worth of difference. With a Democratic Senate and Presidency, they can’t repeal healthcare. They can’t cut taxes for the rich. They can’t start a war with Iran, or end affirmative action, or overturn Roe V.Wade. They’re going to be disappointed, especially since the right-wing noise machine has been talking like it will solve all their problems. There will be a slow death.

If the Republicans DON’T take back the House, there’s going to be an even faster death of the whole thing. It will have about the same impact on American history that Pets.com or Crystal Pepsi had. The next time we will hear of the teabaggers is on some VH1 nostalgia show in 2022: “Hey, remember the teabaggers?”

Comment #7: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  12:42 PM

I wish I could believe that this “revolution” will go nowhere, and that those involved will realize “Wait - I’m actually going to lose out on things that I need if we carry on with this anti-Big Government crap.”  But the reality is that nuttiest of these nutjobs are actually in positions to take office should the elections go their way.  So, in the time between when these Tea Party people are singing their candidates’ praises to when they realize they’ve made a horrible mistake, I fear it will be too late to undo any possible damage.  So what happens when our seniors lose their retirement to the whims of the stock market and are forced to eat expired cat food to survive?  What happens when insurance companies are explicitly encouraged to make money and lower costs for healthy people by going back to cancelling policies and denying health care to desparately ill people (and their children)?  What happens when women are forced to bear children against their will, regardless of any circumstances related to rape and incest?  I wish I could dismiss them, but the thought of the harm they can do in the meantime prevents me from doing so.

Comment #8: mythbri  on  09/29  at  12:48 PM

mythbri—

Obama has something called the veto pen.

The best Republicans can hope for is narrowly taking one house of Congress. They can’t do ANY of the stuff you listed. Shit, even if they took control of the Senate, Democrats would just turn the tables on their “60 votes for everything!” bullshit.

Comment #9: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  12:52 PM

Shit, even if they took control of the Senate, Democrats would just turn the tables on their “60 votes for everything!” bullshit.

I wish I could believe that. Really, I do.

Comment #10: Dunc  on  09/29  at  12:58 PM

Shit, even if they took control of the Senate, Democrats would just turn the tables on their “60 votes for everything!” bullshit.

Sorry, but that’s the funniest thing I’ve read all week.

Comment #11: Steve LaBonne  on  09/29  at  01:02 PM

We all know that the American political system makes it very difficult for even large majorities to change things on a large scale, yet if the Republicans take the House all of a sudden they can do anything they please? What, are they superhuman?

Comment #12: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  01:10 PM

Comment #12: sticke rule on 09/29 at 12:10 PM

*yawn*

Comment #13: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  01:11 PM

Yeah, I don’t see the current crop of Dems being able to flip the GOP’s tactics on them. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see some of the Blue Dogs switch parties, convinced that the Really Totally Permanent This Time Permanent Republican Majority has finally taken over for good.

Comment #14: Scott  on  09/29  at  01:12 PM

Although, yes, the presidential veto pen will certainly put a damper on a lot of the nonsense…

Comment #15: Scott  on  09/29  at  01:13 PM

And, see, Bush will strike Iran right before the election, and if that doesn’t happen the Bradley Effect will kick in, if that doesn’t happen the voting machines will be rigged, and if they voting machines aren’t rigged, Cheney will initiate a coup to prevent Obama from taking office, and if that doesn’t happen….

Comment #16: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  01:15 PM

Although, yes, the presidential veto pen will certainly put a damper on a lot of the nonsense…

Thank you for that, at least. If someone was going to post “Obama will just roll over because the GOP has super-psychic jedi powers!” I was going to scream.

Comment #17: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  01:16 PM

God, you are delusional.  Lady, the establishment couldn’t save Scozzafava, Cannon, Crist, Murkowski, Castle, Grayson, Lowden and Bennett and yet you still cling to the hope that they are in control.

Ah, our favourite racist OCD psychopath is back once again. How’s that race war coming along, Ernst? Talk about delusional.

As I’ve noted before, nothing makes me happier than to see this civil war in the GOP. The ideal situation would be 50% GOP establishment types (neoCons, moneyCons, etc.) and 50% Know-Nothings (Xtianists, Teabaggers, etc.) in positions of power. If the latter get more than 50%, watch the big-money donations plummet.

Shit, even if they took control of the Senate, Democrats would just turn the tables on their “60 votes for everything!” bullshit.

Gotta agree with the others—even if the Dems excercised some sort of party discipline over the Blue Dogs, they’d still botch the opportunity in the name of “comity.”

Comment #18: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  01:21 PM

Well, if the GOP takes the Senate, that means no more Harry Reid, and that solves a lot of the “comity” bullshit.

I don’t think Dick Durbin or Chuck Schumer would play as nice with the Republicans as Harry Reid.

Comment #19: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  01:22 PM

By the way, Stickie, is the “lady” thing a lame attempt at an insult, or just a proud demonstration of your ignorance of Latin suffixes? Or, in the spirit of this site, is it a both/and thing?

Comment #20: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  01:24 PM

I’m particularly intrigued by Will’s theory that the reason this big con is so effective on the Tea Party marks is that it exploits, at the end of the day, the fear of death.  Fear of change is what fuels the racism, the nostalgia for a half-forgotten past, the eagerness to hippie-kick.

Funny considering that as an X-er my half-forgotten past involves constant anxiety of instant annihilation under a mushroom cloud.  The nostalgia is from being able to be frivolous while the nuclear sword of Damocles hung over us.  We wanted change.  We wanted a Max Headroom to speak the truth to power.  What we got instead was the powers that be turn Walter Cronkite into Glenn Beck, and the best we can hope for is to avoid having our phones tapped and being forced to star in the next episode of Running Man.

Comment #21: cynickal  on  09/29  at  01:26 PM

You know? Whether or not the Teabagger movement goes anywhere at all, it doesn’t matter, because it shows that a surprising number of Americans are willing to accept fascism as long as the authoritarians in charge of the joint pay lip service to their own prejudices. I guess that’s what decades of isolation and exceptionalism get you - no possible conception that what happened in Spain or Italy could easily enough happen here too.

Comment #22: katydid  on  09/29  at  01:28 PM

no possible conception that what happened in Spain or Italy could easily enough happen here too.

I don’t see a Franco or Mussolini ever happening here but I’m willing to accept we may see a well see the rise of a Charles de Gaulle type.

Comment #23: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  01:34 PM

Comment #25: sticke rule on 09/29 at 12:33 PM

Surprise surprise, Stick Rule is historically illiterate in addition to being politically illiterate.

Comment #24: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  01:48 PM

Oh, so now it’s just we won’t get money if we don’t do the establisments bidding?

That’s right.

You changed your tune.  Initially you said that the establishment would never let the know nothings take over.

Yes, in the same sense that your heroes in Germany in 1945 would never let the Allies invade. At the end of the day, though, it’s scorched earth (or the GOP establishment equivalent, cutting off the money).

The money guys in Germany supported Hitler even though he was totally bonkers because he was better than the alternative, that’s how it will happen here.

See, you’re starting from the moronic Teabagger assumption that the Democratic establishment is the equivalent of Red Front (or, for the slightly less delusional, Socialists). In fact, it’s just as dominated by neoLiberal globalists as is it’s GOP establishment counterpart.

If it’s a choice between anti-immigrant isolationist populists and the Democratic establishment, I know where they’ll put their money. Already, a good portion of big-money donors place bets with both parties, but if one party’s platform seriously threatens to cost them money they’ll push it to reign in the Teabaggers. That’s why Rove and Armey were wheeled out so quickly.

The money boys know that they can get more from us (tax cuts, dereg, government contracts, union busting, etc) then they can get from the Dems.

At least you admit that your lot are stooges and suckers. But any good confidence artist understands the concept of diminishing returns, as the GOP establishment’s backlash against nuts like O’Donnell demonstrates.

Older women are always sensitve about their age.

Both/and it is!

Comment #25: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  01:50 PM

You can’t compare the political system of the Weimar Republic to the United States, period. Anyone who does this is either being stupid or arguing in bad faith.

The United States doesn’t have, for example, a half-dozen parties that all get representation in Congress. It doesn’t have proportional representation. We weren’t a semi-absolute monarchy 15 years ago. And on, and on, and on.

Comment #26: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  01:59 PM

He’s asking if O’Donnell is broke? He has to ask?

Do you know anything about that race at all?

Just, LOL!

Comment #27: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  02:06 PM

How many women and “people of color” were part of the D Day landing force?

He thinks he’s making some profound point here, but it just once again shows he’s an illiterate.

Comment #28: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  02:08 PM

sticke rule proves the comparison between Teabaggers and the Confederacy is apt.

Comment #29: LittlePig  on  09/29  at  02:14 PM

The NRSCC gave her the minimum amount of money possible—the amount they HAVE to give any primary winner and that’s it. There is no establishment money rushing to her. Any money she does have (that she will probably use to pay her rent, being a scam artist and all) isn’t from the establishment.

Comment #30: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  02:14 PM

No, but you can compare the political situation.

No, you can’t, for the reasons I just gave.

I’ll say it again, maybe you can actually read it this time.

Do tell, were we ruled by an Emperor as recently as 1995? Defeated in a global war around the same time? Do we have entire political parties that are explicitly dedicated to abolishing the Constitution? Do we see democracy, constitutionalism, and the rule of law as something that was imposed on us by foreigners? Do we fear a Bolshevik revolution? Do we have difficulty doing something as simple in Congress as electing the Speaker?

Face it,what you know about German history you learned from watching daytime cable TV.

Comment #31: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  02:19 PM

How many women and “people of color” were part of the D Day landing force?  Were there a lot?  What about the strategic bombing of Germany, were there a lot of women, blacks and hispanics amongst the B-17 crews?

Yes, in the Jim Crow Army, how many blacks fought in combat? Hispanics returning from WW II formed the American GI Forum because they were shut out of other veterans’ groups. And women were not allowed to fill combat roles.

Comment #32: Hector B.  on  09/29  at  02:19 PM

Hector, if you want “people of color” in combat all you have to do is bring up the British and Free French colonial forces, the presence of which stick rule is blissfully unaware of since all the history he ever learned came from third-rate TV documentaries.

Comment #33: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  02:22 PM

So do I:  with the Republicans.

You’re the one who’s claiming that the Republican party establishment is now made up of anti-immigrant isolationist populists. neoCons and moneyCons don’t support that—the former like their wars of choice, and the latter would really prefer it if the nasty poors left poor old Goldman Sachs and Citibank alone.

By the way, how have O’Donnell and Angle done in the fundraising department so far?  The establishment hates them, so both campaigns are surely broke, right?

O’Donnell has near-zero party support, in terms of both funding and endorsements. The party wastes some resources on Angle because she has the potential to displace Reid, but that’s a two-fer as far as I’m concerned.

How many women and “people of color” were part of the D Day landing force?  Were there a lot?  What about the strategic bombing of Germany, were there a lot of women, blacks and hispanics amongst the B-17 crews?

If it weren’t for Ben’s observation at #27, I’d have no idea what relevance this had to my comment. Now I see that you’re working in the grand Know-Nothing tradition of working against your own best interests.

Or is it just that, in your ideal world, Normandy was a part of the German homeland in 1945 and that the cowardly Allies won soley due to bombing, never setting foot on sacred German soil?

Comment #34: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  02:23 PM

With regard to women, one of the main reasons the Allies outproduced the Axis is powers is that we allowed full-time employment of women in war industries, something that Germany and Japan were too patriarchal to do until the bitter end when it was too late for them anyway.

Comment #35: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  02:26 PM

You don’t, technically, need establishment money to win a campaign: grassroots fundraising can give you plenty. However, you do need to ensure that your party won’t actively attempt to strangle you by forbidding experienced campaign staff from joining your team or simply sending veteran staffers elsewhere. I mean, really, does anyone think that O’Donnell and Angle have teams of experienced Volunteer Coordinators and PR spokespeople at their disposal right now? Or that rich guys are hosting fundraising dinners to send them money?

To a degree, the Republicans are facing the Iron Law of Institutions here: McConnell et al. are going to consider the issue that they are more concerned with their power within the Republican party than the power of the Republican party.

Comment #36: Tyro  on  09/29  at  02:26 PM

Hector, if you want “people of color” in combat all you have to do is bring up the British and Free French colonial forces, the presence of which stick rule is blissfully unaware of since all the history he ever learned came from third-rate TV documentaries.

Oh, please, everyone knows that Americans (and only white ones) single-handedly defeated Germany, starting on the German beaches of Normandy in 1945 and ending with the strategic bombing campaign against Berlin.

At least, everyone knows that in Stickie’s alternate universe. I doubt he’s been able to break away from reality TV and Faux News to watch the History Channel.

Comment #37: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  02:29 PM

*The participants are simply too old.  Invariably, someone will scream “ageist!” when I point this out, eager to police without thinking about nuance.  But it’s not a slam on older people to suggest that you don’t create a revolution out of 50-80-year-olds.

Even discounting a violent revolution, it’s hard to spark an electoral revolution with that crowd: you need people dedicated to believing that they are fomenting radical change in the service of politicians who are going to implement incremental change. It’s easy to convince 18-24 year olds to do this; to become the itinerant campaign staffers and organizing activists. It’s much harder to get the 50+ crowd to become part of a political movement—movements are hard work and you have to believe that that work is going to bear fruit in the near future if you’re going to pour all that work into it. The young crowd can hang in there for a few election cycles, while the older crowd will burn out almost immediately. What happens is that you make small, incremental progress on the backs of each successive generation of young activists convinced they’re going to change the world. Sad, but true.

Ben D. has it right: the movement will be consigned to a VH1 nostalgia special in a few years.

Comment #38: Tyro  on  09/29  at  02:32 PM

At least, everyone knows that in Stickie’s alternate universe. I doubt he’s been able to break away from reality TV and Faux News to watch the History Channel.

Seriously. There were black and brown colonial troops in combat roles in World War One, for fucks sake.

This is yet another giveaway he’s a parody of a white supremacist: any good Stormfronter would know about the use of Senegalese and (early on) African-American troops to occupy the Rhineland after the Armistice.

Comment #39: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  02:34 PM

The point is that even without the establishment money, a completely batshit insane no hoper like O’Donnell can still get plenty of money.

I suspect that Stickie’s definition of “plenty of money” is similar to JoeDuhPlumbah’s: “lookee me, I’m a $250-yare! (or will be, real soon now)”.

To a degree, the Republicans are facing the Iron Law of Institutions here: McConnell et al. are going to consider the issue that they are more concerned with their power within the Republican party than the power of the Republican party.

Exactly, and that Taibbi article lays it out pretty clearly: for Rand Paul, it was either go along with Big Daddy McConnell and the party establishment or face the long knives (another historical reference that Stickie won’t get). To the amusement and complete lack of surprise of any liberal or progressive reading that article, Paul took the former option.

Comment #40: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  02:35 PM

Women had absolutely nothing to do with winning World War II because, after all, EVERYONE knows industrial production doesn’t matter in 20th Century total warfare. /sarcasm off

There have been entire academic papers written, for fucks sake, on how dumb it was of Hitler to restrict the use of women in war production jobs, some people even saying it could have made the outcome of the war quite different.

Comment #41: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  02:36 PM

The army that beat the Nazis was a sexually and racially integrated one.  It contained male and female Caucasians, Kazakhs, Armenians, Karelians, Tajiks, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Georgians, Yakuts and many more.

Comment #42: Fatman  on  09/29  at  02:40 PM

Stickie, are you saying the Soviet and British armies in the 1940s were “staffed almost exclusively with white males?”

My liberal bleeding heart is doing you a favor and Just making sure you want to commit to saying something this dumb.

Comment #43: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  02:42 PM

My point was that you bragging about the defeat of Nazi Germany makes just as little sense as when you lefties brag about winning the civil war.

I like how the lefty straw men are now taking credit for winning both WWII and the Civil War. As for me, I’m just stating facts, not doing any bragging. It’s understandable that a bitter and ignorant racist would take it as such, though.

Comment #44: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  02:43 PM

My point was that you bragging about the defeat of Nazi Germany makes just as little sense as when you lefties brag about winning the civil war.  Both are victories your group (women) and your favorite racial groups (blacks and hispanics) had next to nothing to do with.

Right, unless you got off an LST at Omaha Beach or were part of a B-17 flight crew you had no part in winning World War II.

Everyone else in the military served a purely decorative purpose.

Comment #45: Hector B.  on  09/29  at  02:43 PM

Even saying the American one was “staffed almost exclusively” with white males is a stretch, but saying it about the British Empire (that’s a little hint for you, stickie, Britain was an Empire then) and Soviet forces is completely, totally illiterate.

Comment #46: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  02:44 PM

Not to mention, hector, that producing weapons, planes, and food had absolutely nothing to do with winning the war. The white men were so awesome that they killed the Nazis with their bare hands, subsisting off of nothing but pure machismo.

Comment #47: alysia  on  09/29  at  02:48 PM

We’ll have to see how the perpetual outrage thing works. On of the apparent differences between the teabaggers and the regular republican base is that teabaggers appear perfectly willing to vote against (at least in primaries) republican establishment types who talk the wingnut talk but have even the slightest record of having behaved sanely in office. This suggests that there could be a lot of teabag one-termers (followed by even loonier loons) or that the failure to get anything passed will just be taken as a sign for more decisive action.

I’m also not so on the no-revolution-from-old-people thing. A lot of these people are childless or empty-nesters, they’ve already got their pension and their social security, their houses might even be paid for. Back during the last wave of feminism it was axiomatic that “surplus” older women were good at raising hell precisely because there wasn’t anything else for them to do.

Comment #48: paul  on  09/29  at  02:49 PM

So yeah, the Allied victory was pretty much a white male affair even if women and blacks did *some* (certainly not all as the media tries to portray) mostly unskilled factory labor on the home front while the white boys went overseas did the actual real work of defeating the enemy.

Notice how he avoids the fact that existence of the war itself was “a white male affair,” more exclusively so than the conduct of the war.

However, it is surprising to discover that arms manufacturing, from ammunition to strategic bombers, falls into the category of “unskilled factory labour”—almost as surprising as the fact that Stickie considers the Nazis to have been the enemy.

Comment #49: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  02:50 PM

The intelligence that helped win the war (such as the cracking of the German “ENIGMA” code) was the product of the work of a handful of brilliant white males.

The early model Enigma machines were cracked by Polish mathematicians, by the way. After a point, additional codewheels made cracking the Enigma code impossible for the resource limited Poles, so they turned their information and work over to the Brits, whose Bletchley Park team, led by a gay man, Alan Turing, were able to crack successive versions.

Comment #50: Hector B.  on  09/29  at  02:50 PM

Stickie, are you saying the Soviet and British armies in the 1940s were “staffed almost exclusively with white males?”

Like the Nazis, the more under duress Stickie is, the broader his definition of “white male” becomes.

Comment #51: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  02:52 PM

So, Stickey, what exactly do us mudbloods do in the coming race war?  Do we kick everybody’s arse?

Comment #52: Ms Kate  on  09/29  at  02:55 PM

However, it is surprising to discover that arms manufacturing, from ammunition to strategic bombers, falls into the category of “unskilled factory labour”

He doesn’t understand total war at all. Everyone is a combatant in a total war, because people working in the factory are just as vital to the war effort as troops on the front lines.

We didn’t bomb German and Japanese industrial centers for the hell of it!

Comment #53: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  02:55 PM

As a Gen-Xer here’s something I’ve noticed not just about the Tea Party but about the generation born pre-1950 in general.  They grew up with generously subsidized mortgages and educations, working in an economy that was kept humming by sensible tax policy and regulation.  Then they grew up, became investors, and decided to shut down, sell off, outsource and offshore everything productive about this country and replace it with a flea market.  Now that they’ve trashed the place they want to ride off into the sunset in their Medicare-paid scooters without leaving even a crumb for the generations behind theirs.  Worthy exceptions aside, I know I’m not the only one who has noticed this.

Comment #54: Flora  on  09/29  at  02:58 PM

Whats funny to me is now women aren’t part of the race war anymore. So at least stickie-poo’s reign of terror will only be one generation.

Comment #55: alysia  on  09/29  at  02:59 PM

The early model Enigma machines were cracked by Polish mathematicians, by the way. After a point, additional codewheels made cracking the Enigma code impossible for the resource limited Poles, so they turned their information and work over to the Brits, whose Bletchley Park team, led by a gay man, Alan Turing, were able to crack successive versions.

And don’t get started on the atomic bomb. Those Aryan supermen really pulled that one off after kicking out all the untermenschen.

Comment #56: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  02:59 PM

First, in terms of Britain, the overwhelming bulk of the the British troops that engaged the Germans in combat were white.

Too bad you didn’t say that when you first brought up this subject. You said:

All three nations had militaries that were almost exclusively staffed with white males.

You are completely wrong on that point.

Comment #57: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  03:00 PM

As for who designed the machinery, it was the OKBs.  The design team at the Yakovlev Design Bureau alone contained many Yakuts and Georgians.

Comment #58: Fatman  on  09/29  at  03:02 PM

The money boys know that they can get more from us (tax cuts, dereg, government contracts, union busting, etc) then they can get from the Dems.

Yes, and after you’ve given up so much of your virtue, Straw Man, what will you have left?

The money guys in Germany supported Hitler even though he was totally bonkers because he was better than the alternative

Sure, initially.  Eventually (however) they decided they’d had enough, at which point they counted on Roosevelt and Eisenhower to save them.  (Though this is not really a workable comparison, b/c “the alternative” in the case of the German moneymen was Stalin, and “the alternative” in the case of the TP’ers is Nancy Pelosi.  So come on, dude.)

...that’s how it will happen here.

Let’s hope not.  As you correctly indicate, people like you have reduced the American social system to the point where it won’t stand the strain you intend to put on it.  In the event that you “succeed” you might not care for the results.

Comment #59: bekabot  on  09/29  at  03:03 PM

Flora, doubly ironic considering that their parents likely were part of that uneducated white underclass that used to do all the jobs that the undocumented workers now suffer. 

Them crackers can go back to picking crops in the blazing sun for little pay and wandering the landscape looking for work if they don’t like socialism.  Then the mezcuns would all go home!

Comment #60: Ms Kate  on  09/29  at  03:03 PM

Oh, my mistake.  I thought Bletchley Park was staffed by white males and led by a white man.  Man, I’m so embarrassed.

You should be.  The reason “white men” got to do these sorts of things was because women and minorities were shut out of attaining the education they would have required.

Face it: this isn’t about merit or superiority - it is about your fear of actually having to compete on even footing rather than having everything handed to you because you are so super special and god loves you best!  That’s the philosophy of the Teabaggersin a nutshell - they fear their own inadequacy and want special privileges for their inability to produce melanin.

Comment #61: Ms Kate  on  09/29  at  03:07 PM

Again, just to show how stupid this man is:

He said that the military of the British Empire was “staffed almost exclusively by white males”.

Comment #62: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  03:08 PM

You do realize that there are different parts in the assembly process, right?  Some assembly line stuff you can just put any idiot (or in a pinch, a woman) to bang two pieces of metal together.  But some things require skilled craftsmanship or technical know how and in WWII, just like today, those jobs were filled by white men.

“Banging two pieces of metal together?”  Strawbones, my Dad worked for decades as a foreman in the construction industry, and I’m here to tell you that you’d make a rotten foreman.  That is so not the attitude you want to cultivate, or at least it wasn’t, when guys like my Dad were around.  (It may be that things have changed since then, and it may also be that that’s one of the reasons why everything’s falling apart.)

Comment #63: bekabot  on  09/29  at  03:10 PM

But some things require skilled craftsmanship or technical know how and in WWII, just like today, those jobs were filled by white men.

There’s plenty of academic literature based on actual factory records that demonstrate otherwise. Believe it or not, women can and did operate lathes and precision milling tools. All a part of the liberal media conspiracy, I’m sure.

By the way, who designed the ammunition and strategic bombers?  Was it women and minorities?

For the most part, no, because women and minorities were deliberately excluded, in the same way that Jews were excluded from the German atomic programme.

Also, you’ll be shocked to learn that, despite the institutionalised racism and sexism, a liberal Hollywood woman was a partner one of the major technological breakthroughs of the war—one that contributed to victory in the Battle of the Atlantic, opening supply lines (which I know are meaningless to you) to the European theatre.

Comment #64: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  03:11 PM

Were there a lot of women and minorities involved in the Manhatten Project?  I bet there were!

There were lots of Jews, deny it who can.

Comment #65: bekabot  on  09/29  at  03:11 PM

I like how he asserts, with no evidence at all, that women and blacks on the homefront didn’t do skilled work in factories.

Not that I even care about the topic anymore. It just, once again, illustrates nicely the kind of moron we’re dealing with. The same kind of moron who would think the military of the British Empire was “staffed almost exclusively by white males”.

Comment #66: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  03:13 PM

The Red Army was 92% male, but the 8% that were female were as much front line troops as the men.  The 586th, 587th, 588th air groups were all female, as well as elements of the 47th guards.  We are not talking about the occasional Litvyak or Pavlachenko here, there were over two and a half million Soviet women that took part in the Second World War.

Comment #67: Fatman  on  09/29  at  03:13 PM

Were there a lot of women and minorities involved in the Manhatten Project?  I bet there were!

There were, in fact, both a lot of women and a major minority group (specifically Jews) involved in the Manhattan Project.

Now the fun part: will Stickie deign to include Da Joooos in the ranks of the holy White Man?

Comment #68: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  03:15 PM

So how come there are zero top hackers who are female, black or hispanic?

I don’t know anything about the demographics of hackers and don’t really care, but I wouldn’t trust blanket assertions from somebody who thought that the military of the British Empire was “staffed almost exclusively by white males”.

Hell, in peacetime, there were actually more Indians the active army than Engishmen!

Comment #69: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  03:16 PM

Now the fun part: will Stickie deign to include Da Joooos in the ranks of the holy White Man?

Well, with my point he either has to admit he’s wrong or go on some tangent about how the Indians and Pakistanis in the British colonial army were “high caste aryans” or some such nonsense.

How much do you want to bet he takes the latter route?

Comment #70: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  03:22 PM

Stickie thinks he’s making some really profound point when he says that before reliable birth control the vast majority of women spent their lives raising and giving birth to numerous children, and didn’t have high powered careers.

Comment #71: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  03:24 PM

So how come there are zero top hackers who are female, black or hispanic?

Off the top of my geeky head, I’m familiar with at least two African-American top hackers: John Lee (AKA “Crispus Attucks”) and Greg Evans.

Clearly your ignorance extends to all sorts of areas.

Comment #72: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  03:27 PM

Ben D—I know, right? Because weapons designers and code breakers are born, and totally not educated at high school and university programs not opened to non-whites/women.

Comment #73: alysia  on  09/29  at  03:30 PM

Oh, my mistake.  I thought that the Manhatten Project was staffed by white males and led by a white male.

You do consider Jews white, then? Before you answer in the affirmative, bear in mind that doing so will revoke your “white supremacy” membership card.

Yes, I’m sure there were tons of brilliant women and black weapons designers, code breakers and physicists who were kept shut out of the war effort.

And shut out of academia and unions as well for centuries beforehand. Or do you really think all those breakthroughs were the result of genetics and gender alone?

Comment #74: Gracchus.  on  09/29  at  03:31 PM

Oh, my mistake.  I thought that they were cracked by white males.

Most people understand that use of “by the way” signals a digression; introduces a new (but often related) topic.

Apparently sticke falls into the lowest quartile of English fluency.

Comment #75: Hector B.  on  09/29  at  03:31 PM

they think that somewhere out there is a group of people making out like bandits, costing the country billions upon billions of dollars, and they’re not going to take that anymore.  It’s totally false

*cough*
http://www2.goldmansachs.com/?cid=31050699

Comment #76: BlackBloc  on  09/29  at  03:35 PM

Please don’t respond to the troll.  When I find him and delete him, it makes the conservation sound all weird.  He’s not there, just tell yourself that.  Because it’ll be true soon enough.

Comment #77: Amanda Marcotte  on  09/29  at  03:37 PM

Back to the original topic:

Rand Paul is now in a dead heat with his Democratic opponent in two new polls. So there’s hope we may be able to keep that nutball out of the Senate yet.

Comment #78: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  03:39 PM

It might be because your dads job is now being done by an illiterate peasant from Guadelara.

The problem is, they’re not illiterate.  I know because my Dad trained lots of those guys, both in the United States and in South America.  He had to do it, it was a condition of his employment, and while he was doing it he was (although a rock-ribbed Republican and a hardhat)  blindingly and completely aware that the people he was training were, once instructed, thoroughly capable of doing his job.

He forsaw trouble because he realized that while his trainees would be as competent (if not as experienced) as he was, they would be willing to work for much less money.  The sticking-point was not that they were brown and not white, the sticking-point was that they were on the receiving-end of the same kind of exploitative economic system you’re trying to institute up here (God knows why).

Oh, my mistake.  I thought that the Manhatten Project was staffed by white males and led by a white male.

Just for the record, Strawbum, what the heck is the matter with you?  Does the name “J. Robert Oppenheimer” sound like it belongs to a 100% Aryan dude in your world?  Or do circumstances arise under which a white Jewish guy quits being “Jewish” and starts being “white”?  Please advise.

Comment #79: bekabot  on  09/29  at  03:39 PM

Bekabot—

Stick Rule, under the name “Otis the Sweaty” said Marco Rubio is white (“he’s not latino! He’s castillian!)

His definition is very flexible.

Comment #80: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  03:42 PM

there is a group of people making out like bandits, costing the country billions upon billions of dollars, and they’re not going to take that anymore.  It’s totally false, but that’s the worldview we’re dealing with:  “I’m working hard like a chump, just scraping by, and Those People are living it up on handouts made up of My Money.”

I have to disagree with you there.  There are groups of people (namely Big Agro, corporations, and military contractors) that are making out like bandits at the expense of the rest of us and often enough on our dime.  The transfer of the tax burden from the rich to the middle class hasn’t helped matters.

You’re right that teabaggers are blaming the wrong people, but you’re wrong in stating that billions of dollars aren’t being wasted on the undeserving.

Comment #81: keshmeshi  on  09/29  at  03:50 PM

Aw, dang. I arrived too late to school Le Baton. Good show, everyone!

Oh, and does Luis Alvarez count as a white man? I’m pretty sure that Lise Meitner doesn’t, if only because she was shut out of the Nobel Prize. And I’m sure that the women computers at Los Alamos would love to hear that their painstaking calculations - made with only Le Baton’s namesakes, some log tables, paper and pencil - were unskilled labor. Along with Admiral Hopper, natch.

Comment #82: Maureen  on  09/29  at  04:37 PM

Bekabot—

Stick Rule, under the name “Otis the Sweaty” said Marco Rubio is white (“he’s not latino! He’s castillian!)

His definition is very flexible.

I like that.  Flexible definitions make my day.  My only caveat would be that definitions, however flexible, must be applied consistently to retain even moderate signifying power.  Which would mean that if the rule is to be: “Minorities are to be counted as white so long as their skin is white”, and if the corollary of that rule is to be: “Individuals of third-world heritage are to be counted as white so long as most of their ancestry is European”, rightie culture critics would have to stop squeaking that no such thing as typecasting exists in Hollywood* since Charlie Sheen is actually Hispanic. It would also mean that Ross Douthat would have to quit leaning on his Indian extraction, because he’s obviously mostly Portuguese. 

Under those conditions I’d be mighty happy to go along.

*(Liberal Hollywood.)

Comment #83: bekabot  on  09/29  at  04:46 PM

Ben D. @ 12

“We all know that the American political system makes it very difficult for even large majorities to change things on a large scale, yet if the Republicans take the House all of a sudden they can do anything they please? What, are they superhuman? “


Basically, yeah.  Though of course they never say such a ridiculous thing out loud and probably don’t think it directly to themselves. 

Still the underlying premise of any right-wing, authoritarian movement is that the chosen ‘folk’, (as determined by correct religion, nationality, skin color, or all the above)  are not beholden to the laws of of biology; that it is in fact a unforgivable insult to suggest that they are.  The people who join these movements have convinced themselves that there is nothing they cannot conquer or dominate through strength and force of will; that there is nothing they need from this world except for their rightful control of it. 

This is why they so lustfully seek to win the next election as an end to itself while denouncing the very thought of practical governance, and also why winning or losing elections has no effect on their belief that they are an overwhelming majority forever on the verge of crushing their opposition forever.  And in the end they are of course doomed to eternal frustration in life, since those who refuse to accept their own human limits are only going to be pulverized more brutally by these limits than the rest of us.

It’s the fear of death that lies at the center of it all, just as Amanda said.

Comment #84: mrheartland  on  09/29  at  05:40 PM

I think it is more than the fear of death - I think there is substantial fear of inadequacy.  Fear of having to actually earn their keep without special privileges to protect them from competition with people they see as inferior, but know damn well are not.

Comment #85: Ms Kate  on  09/29  at  06:27 PM

This is exactly what happened when O’Donnell got the GOP nomination for Senate—out came Karl Rove and Dick Armey (of the Koch-funded Freedomworks, which laid down the Tea Party astroturf in the first place) to denounce her.

You’re confusing Freedomworks with Americans for Prosperity. Both of those groups were spawned from a now-defunct group called Citizens for a Sound Economy. There was an internal rift within Citizens for a Sound Economy in 2004, and the organization was split into two unique entities, Freedomworks and Americans for Prosperity. Armey runs Freedomworks, which gets most of its funding from corporate donors like Verizon, AT&T;, Bristol Myers Squibb, and Philip Morris. Americans for Prosperity is run by David Koch, and it receives grant funding from the Koch Family Foundations.

The two groups share similar policy visions and they often overlap each other in their involvement with the Tea Party movement, but they are in fact two separate autonomous entities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_for_a_Sound_Economy

Comment #86: DTGslu2K  on  09/29  at  06:47 PM

While I do think the belief in others’ inferiority is perfectly sincere, (these folks have more than proven their ability to believe horseshit, after all.)  yes, definitely a fear of inadequacy as well. 

“America can do anything/In America, you can grow up to be anything.”  For people who NEED to believe that they and only they are the essence of America, anything short of always getting their way is inadequate.  Absolute power for them is the only alternative to absolute impotence.

Comment #87: mrheartland  on  09/29  at  06:52 PM

Even discounting a violent revolution, it’s hard to spark an electoral revolution with that crowd: you need people dedicated to believing that they are fomenting radical change in the service of politicians who are going to implement incremental change. It’s easy to convince 18-24 year olds to do this; to become the itinerant campaign staffers and organizing activists. It’s much harder to get the 50+ crowd to become part of a political movement—movements are hard work and you have to believe that that work is going to bear fruit in the near future if you’re going to pour all that work into it. The young crowd can hang in there for a few election cycles, while the older crowd will burn out almost immediately. What happens is that you make small, incremental progress on the backs of each successive generation of young activists convinced they’re going to change the world. Sad, but true.

You won’t get the gray haired people to go out of their way to attend rallies and volunteer in GOTV efforts, but there has always been one thing that citizens over the age of 50 can be counted on doing… they vote. They always vote, even when they don’t like either candidate. People over the age of 50 are the most reliable voting block in America.

That is why the Republican Party hasn’t yet completely collapsed, because they still have a lot of influence among people born prior to 1960, and because of the Baby Boom, there are a ton of living Americans who were born before 1960. Looking down the road, it’s clear that the current incarnation of the GOP cannot remain viable for more than a few more election cycles. If the ugliness we see being proudly displayed by the teabaggers remains the face of the GOP beyond 2020, they are finished.

Comment #88: DTGslu2K  on  09/29  at  07:15 PM

I’m of the position that the Tea Party is the latest incarnation of the rightist organizations that have haunted every Democratic President except Carter since FDR. FDR had to deal with the Liberty League and the American First people. Truman was hounded by the Dixiecrats. Kennedy and LBJ, the John Birch Society. Clinton’s nemesis had no name but they did exist. Obama’s enemy is the Tea Party.

Comment #89: Lee  on  09/29  at  07:24 PM

Clinton’s nemesis had no name but they did exist.

The “Vast Right Wing Conspiracy” works for me!

I think Clinton’s persecutors were just a little crazier than the teabaggers, actually. They tried to destroy his personal life as well. All this despite the fact he was pretty centrist politically, and a white southern Baptist male who loves fast food, so culture wasn’t the reason, either. Something about him just REALL rubbed wingnuts the wrong way and I can’t put my finger on it like I can with Obama.

Comment #90: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  07:40 PM

@Ben D.

I suspect that “its” name is Hillary.

Comment #91: Atheist, A Feminist  on  09/29  at  07:49 PM

I suspect that “its” name is Hillary.

Good point!

Comment #92: Ben D.  on  09/29  at  07:52 PM

Clinton was a good ol’ boy who rose above his poor backwoods roots to achieve the highest office in America.  You’d think he’d be hailed as the embodiment of the American dream except for one little detail: he’s a DEMOCRAT.  If he had grown up to be a Republican, they would have nominated him for sainthood along with Reagan.  As it is, he’s viewed as rising above his preordained station in life and thinking he’s as good as his betters.

Comment #93: NobleExperiments  on  09/29  at  08:28 PM

I once met somebody with a Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy pin. He wore it without irony.

Comment #94: Lee  on  09/29  at  08:33 PM

maureen, you can add Barbara McClintock  to your list, before her Nobel even my post-doc girlfriend in Microbiology hadn’t heard of her, but I had because of some work I did on my Senior Thesis a few years earlier.

Comment #95: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  09/29  at  08:41 PM

The intelligence that helped win the war (such as the cracking of the German “ENIGMA” code) was the product of the work of a handful of brilliant white males.

And the intelligence that helped win the war in the Pacific (such as the radio code of the “windtalkers”) was the product of the work of a handful of brilliant Native American males.

Comment #96: Blue Jean  on  09/29  at  11:30 PM

BenD:

I don’t like that term, simply because “Vast Right Wing Conspiracy” refers to a specific and definable subset of the movement—the “Arkansas Project” and its hangers on. I tend to prefer “Vast Right-Wing Circlejerk”.

Comment #97: BrianX  on  09/30  at  04:26 AM

I’m pretty sure that nowadays, the majority of Jews of Western European descent count as white.

Of course, the entire *point* of World War II was, in part, that at that time, Jews did not count as white.

Most supremacists don’t include Jews, but most garden variety Republican racists do. Hell, much of the neocon movement depends on Jewish ultra-hawks whose idea of supporting Israel seems to come down to “annihilate everyone in the Middle East who isn’t Israel.” While most Jews in America are Democratic supporters because Democrats are much more reliable about protecting the rights of religious minorities, there’s no shortage of Jewish men at the top of the Republican hierarchy. (Haven’t noticed any ultra-conservative Jewish women, which surprises me a little given that Israel itself is big on the concept of including women in mandatory military services, but then, most American Jewish neocons are not former Israelis.)

So Stick Rule is simply demonstrating his total lack of historical understanding once *again* by including Jewish people in the category “white”, since nowadays, almost everyone does in fact include Jewish people (from Western Europe, anyway) in the category “white”... but they certainly were not considered white when they built the atom bomb.

Comment #98: Alara J Rogers  on  10/01  at  10:04 AM

If he had grown up to be a Republican, they would have nominated him for sainthood along with Reagan.

Unless, of course, he never married and everybody strongly suspected that he was gay.  See also: Lindsay Graham.

Comment #99: Ms Kate  on  10/01  at  03:28 PM
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