They should hold global warning conferences in Tuvalu, or one of those Alaskan villages being relocated due to rising ocean levels.

Part of the issue is that Climate Change requires both a real science education *and* a real liberal arts education to understand.  Very few people have both who aren’t climate scientists.  Moreover, the analogies and simplifications (Greenhouse Effect, Global Warming) are frequently unhelpful or counterproductive in increasing understanding.  It’s just not a topic you can talk about in “english”.  It’s a topic that you have to have education and reasoning skills enough to speak about it in *English*.

Honestly, I’m not sure these people have enough integrity even for the horoscopes.

Horoscopes? I’m sure they’d find a way to fuck THAT up.

I don’t know if I’d agree that one needs a particularly advanced education to understand climate change.  I’m a college dropout whose high school science education was provided largely by a senile man and a woman to busy flirting with one of my classmates to teach half of the class room. 

I’m pretty sure I learned the foundations for understanding climate change in seventh grade from a laser disc.  Anything that can be learned from a laser disc can’t be that hard.

Yes, but Global Warming = Socialism and we can’t be having that now, can we?

The concept of global warming/climate change has been around a lot longer than the past two decades. One of the first to note its potential for havoc was the Swedish chemist Svante Arrhenius, who won the Nobel prize in Chemistry in 1903! Al Gore learned of this as a college student at Harvard from a Chem professor who was doing actual measurements of how much CO2 there was in the atmosphere and had plotted its annual increase since the International Geophysical Year in the late ‘50’s!

Oh yeah, well, Swedes. They recently legalized gay marriage, you know, so what good is THEIR opinion of anything?

How about +Catastrophic+ Climate Change?  Both global warming and climate change, IMO, don’t carry enough emotional urgency.  I know, the deniers get their underwear in a bunch when we attach those labels, but most of the deniers cut off the circulation to their legs and private parts years ago from just using global warming.

one of those Alaskan villages being relocated due to rising ocean levels.

That’s what I’m thinking. Or just place them all on rafts in the Artic Ocean, “Sorry for the inconvenience, but this area was supposed to be frozen over already. If you look to your left you can view the majestic polar bear, a rotting away carcass that starved to death.”

I’ve sometimes wondered if you could exploit these people, say by selling land really cheap in Tuvalu on the grounds that since global warming isn’t real, they’ll be able to sell it back at normal prices when the myth collapses.

But I think they know it’s real, at least to the extent of not risking their money betting against it. Denial is just a matter of Pissing Off The Liberals

There’s something wonderfully awful about the continued inability of the media to accurately report in any way on a branch of science that’s been hugely prominent for nearly two decades

Which one?  Biology?  Psychology?  Poli Sci?  Chemistry?  Oh!  Climatology.

Sorry, I get confused given that science and media are so horribly divorced from each other.  It’s very hard to run a he-said / she-said narrative when only one side can be factually accurate.

But I think they know it’s real, at least to the extent of not risking their money betting against it. Denial is just a matter of Pissing Off The Liberals

http://dinarspeculation.com/2009/11/01/dinar-currency-scam/

The Iraq Dinar is expected to go through the roof in value!  Buy now, while prices are low and put a sold bet on FREEDOM!  U-S-A!  U-S-A!  It’s not a matter of if, but when!  Invest in a currency that is 100% backed by the full faith and credit of the US Armed Forces!  Exclamations points!  Money!  Act now!

Is climate change supposed to disrupt the gulf stream?  (I heard that somewhere.)  If that’s true, Northern Europe is going to get a lot colder, even if the planet is warming overall.

“If that’s true, Northern Europe is going to get a lot colder, even if the planet is warming overall.”

If the way things play out doesn’t match up with the childish idea I have of how Global Warming should work — that all points on Earth will warm up the exact same amount — then it’s proof that Global Warming is nothing but a hoax perpetuated by the Lieberals to destroy America, and I must reject it. 

Besides, the kerning is obviously wrong, as any 10-year old can see.  And it was cold outside when I got up this morning.  Also, Al Gore is a hypocrite, Michael Moore is fat, and B. HUSSEIN was born in Kenya/Nigeria/Indonesia/from-an-unholy-union-with-a-goat-making-him-the-Antichrist…

I still can’t believe how many people still say HAHA GLOBAL WARMING IZ FAKE CAUSE ITZ COLD OUTSIDE N STUFF, LOL!” as a serious rebuttal. I just heard it today because we’re supposed to have a snowstorm here this weekend.

Also the basic failure to understand the difference between “weather” and “climate” boggles my mind.

<bockquote>There’s something wonderfully awful about the continued inability of the media to accurately report in any way on a branch of science that’s been hugely prominent for nearly two decades, has been explained over and over and over again, and which has thousands of scientists hanging out just waiting to talk about it to whomever will listen.</blockquote>

It reminds me of that episode of The Tick (vs. The Big Nothing) where the aliens are explaining in detail what the Big Nothing is and the Tick is thinking “presentation…boring…losing…consciousness…”

That’s the media.

But Inhofe and his traveling yapping chihuahuas, now that’s entertaining!  We’ll cover that!  Controversy!  Yelling between deniers and believers!  Punching hippies!  Protest-marching hippies arrested!  That’s exciting!

“Also the basic failure to understand the difference between “weather” and “climate” boggles my mind.”

...that would be my 70-something dad, who is convinced that because it’s cold (being winter and all, not that unusual) Global Warming is a hoax…

However tell the same people terrorism is not a threat because “I don’t see any Al Qaeda members in my town! LOL!” and they’ll call you crazy.

Who can know anything at all about the weather?  Well, except Storm from the X-Men.

Your anti-Thorist discrimination has gone on too long, sir!

Also come on, no love for the Weather Wizard?!

\keshmeshi:

Yeah, one of the scenarios is that warming could turn off the North Atlantic Conveyor (aka gulf stream, aka north atlantic thermohaline circulation, etc). It’s happened in the past from injection of large amounts of fresh water at upper latitudes (ice-sheet large) and seems from pollen etc records to essentially equalize the temp-vs-latitude curve on both sides of the atlantic. Which would not only make northern europe mostly uninhabitable but also destroy most current agriculture in southern europe. (Compare winter temperatures between, say, Madrid and NYC or Pittsburgh.) Happens in a few years to a couple decades, takes decades to centuries to recover.

It’s currently considered not that likely, but you gotta ask what the likelihood would have to be (given the potential cost) to make it worth taking seriously.

(Compare winter temperatures between, say, Madrid and NYC or Pittsburgh.) Happens in a few years to a couple decades, takes decades to centuries to recover.

You know, I always forget how much farther north Europe is from us, even though they have the same climate!

Er, meant to say “but they still have a similar climate to us!”

And let’s not even start with those whose response (as the idjits in my locale)  “Whadda I care,  jus’  crank up the ole central air.  Ugh!

Conservative Horoscopes

Capricorn: Next week you will burn bridges and alienate yourself from society. Long term prospects include polishing your “gun” in the basement in preparation for the upcoming socialist apocalypse.

Aquarius: Next week you will have a sexual encounter with a person of the same gender in a public restroom. Long term you may end up doing prison time for a random killing spree brought on by self hatred.

Cancer: Next week you will write furious letters to your senator about how s/he should pay more attention to the constitution. Long term you will end up on an FBI watchlist because you use death threats as a rhetorical device.

Gemini: Next week you will shout loudly about How America is the greatest country in the world and if anyone has a problem they should just get out. Long term more of the same.

Taurus: Next week you will read Atlas Shrugged. Again. Long term, the only book you will ever have read is Atlas shrugged and you will kill endless conversations by ranting about Objectivism to pained bystanders whom you wish would just take you seriously.

Scorpio: Next week you will attend a rally outside an abortion clinic and scream “murderers” at medical professionals. Long term lots of sitting in church with a vacant look on your face as your preacher rants about those god damn liberals all the while a small voice in the back of your head screams in protest.

Pisces: Next week you will buy gifts for your family. Each gift will be a copy of Sarah Palin’s autobiography. Long term you will go rogue and enter a state psychiatric institution.

Libra. Next Week is Bonus Week! You will laugh at the unemployed that you see on tv and go to a strip club with your colleagues. Long term more Money, kids, private jet, heart problems, sound sleep and the long term destruction of the economy for anyone who earns less than 100k year, fucking peasants.

Leo: Next week joining the Young Republicans at university and protesting the sexism of A Women’s Studies department. Long term lots of anxiety because you rape a woman but it all turns out ok because the cops say she shouldn’t have dressed like that in the first place.

Sagittarius. Next Week you will listen Rush Limbaugh and rant about illegals, women and the blacks. Long term you will make a black friend, a hispanic friend and a female friend and learn that maybe what you heard was wrong and these are people too. The tight fist of anger and loneliness that has gripped your heart for so long will open and you will learn to laugh without contempt.

Aries. Next week you will take the rear view mirror off some pussy in his prius with your SUV because bigger is better.  Long term, you will watch 24 on dvd a lot and think Dick Cheney is just like jack bauer who is just so hardcore and George Bush is Batman.

Virgo: Next Week you will send a racist email to your coworkers and family. Long term you will lose your job because of the mentioned email and you will spend months drunk ranting about political correctness and how no one says what they really think anymore as people pointedly tell you exactly what they think of you. Cheer up, you can always run for office.

Sorry about the text wall but all that went through my little head very quickly and I had to post it.

LOL I haven’t been here for an age…and you’re yelling the same thing I would have done ... up to 3 weeks ago.
Read it and weep.  1975 ‘Endangered Atmosphere’ Conference: Where the Global Warming Hoax Was Born
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2007/sci_techs/3423init_warming_hoax.html
I’m kidding, right ?
Nope. It really is a hoax. I was hugely p.o.‘d because I’ve been following geopolitics. It looked to me that if anyone signed the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty - remember Iraq ? - they were going to receive sanctions and constant drubbing by media.
You know : the nation with humungous overkill of WMD is going to prove the guy without it…the real threat! Wow.
I started posting at the Blogger Opit’s linkFest! on this at http://opitslinkfest.blogspot.com/2009/12/4-dec-following-trail-climate-fraud-and.html  Shortly after Dr. John v. Kampen - a science writer - put me on to Dr. Ian Plimer : Professor Emeritus of Earth Sciences.  It’s on YouTube…and is quite the performance.
I kept posting more and more items as they surface…but then the big gun came out.  Global Research.ca has a whole section front on articles about factors affecting climate.
I know they are wild. But I know Amanda, at least, appreciated the difference between the Noise Machine and the din of a rabble in discussion.

Concerning the evidence for global warming I say “Bananas”. Sure, there was a freak snowfall in Houston two weeks ago, but that snow fell on ripe bananas. Bananas fruit far from Galveston Bay. When I was a kid bananas fruited only close to the bay. Whitewing doves have displaced Inca doves. Purple house finches have not been seen for almost twenty years. Loquat fruit is gone by Mother’s Day. I have personal evidence of global warming. I read the signs in plants and animals and know it’s real.

See, global warming is hard to deny when you live in a town that goes oh-shit-now-what every time something new comes down from the sky.  Rain!  Snow!  Ice!  All three in one day!  All three within an hour, even!  And now it’s sunny, just to take maximum advantage of the glare-creation of a bunch of different themes on the topic of frozen water.

There are still people about who want to deny it, of course, but as the weather gets freaking weird and unpredictable, more and more people reply with then call it weather weirding, but shut up and find me something to remove the inch of snow that’s been glued to my windshield with freezing rain in the four hours since I last moved this car.

Bacopa, I have a loquat tree in my yard in Atlanta, been around 15+ years now with not a lick of trouble during winter.  Three years ago, I *got fruit* in June!  Birds didn’t know what was what, and I got tasty fruit.  Now I wonder if that loquat will ever get as big as the ones I’ve seen in New Orleans.  I also have a hardy citrus flowering and fruiting every year now, but those fruits are pretty much worthless, even if more edible than most hardy citrus.  It is really time we try some stephanotis jasmine and pomegranites again…  Make Global Warming work for us!

To the conspiracy theorists: the Copenhagen conference could not even agree on any binding agreement, and they’re supposed to be enacting worldwide genocide, or China-like one child policies?

oh, FFS.

nevermind that snow in Northern Europe is not a freak event
nevermind that more snow != colder
nevermind that weather != climate

one of the predictions of Climate Change models is that Europe could become colder because the ice melt from the Arctic could disrupt the Gulf Stream which keeps Europe toasty warm despite its northerly latitudes (Copenhagen for example is on almost the same latitude as Churchill, Manitoba, which is famous for having Polar Bears running around).

idiot

Jadehawk, Hans Brinker and the Silver Skates didn’t happen on Teflon, either.

pharmakos, that was hilarious!

Next year’s summit is sheduled for Mexico City, which means that instead of the idiotic “Tee hee, it’s cold outside so there must not be global warming,” we will have to listen to the idiotic “Tee hee, it’s so much warmer and more comfortable for me personally right now than it was in Copenhagen last year, so maybe this global warming thing is good.”

Is “FFS” me, jadehawk?  (Honest question: I’m new-ish to actually commenting on these kinds of things, and still learning the etiquette.)

But I think they know it’s real, at least to the extent of not risking their money betting against it. Denial is just a matter of Pissing Off The Liberals

I’ve been pretty sure for a long time that people at the higher levels on the right (or really anyone on the right with a decent level of education and a sane thought in their head) know climate change is real, they just can’t be bothered to actually do anything about it.  They feel that they will likely be dead before it would ever have an impact on their lives, so they’re going to make money while the getting’s good.  Boo Hoo a bunch of polar bears and Bangladeshis…

Fluffster, FFS stands for “for fuck’s sake”.  I don’t think jadehawk was referring to you.  At least I hope not…

Jesse, the fuckers can’t even explain *evolution* worth a shit, and it’s been around for over 150 years and the cocksuckers probably were exposed to it in high school and college. There’s no hope they’ll ever get climate change right…

Opoponax, thanks.  I didn’t really think so, but I wanted to check.  And that’s a very useful acronym…

Cris (5):

Hence the shift in terminology from “global warming” to “climate change.” Of course, I’m sure there’s a way for the literalists to misinterpret the latter as well.

As Ben noted, many people can’t (or won’t, anyway) distinguish climate and weather. And the weather changes all the time!

Also, “climate change” isn’t as obviously bad: “warming” is not a cyclic fluctuation; “change” can be.

Bacopa (30):

When I was a kid bananas fruited only close to the bay. Whitewing doves have displaced Inca doves. Purple house finches have not been seen for almost twenty years. Loquat fruit is gone by Mother’s Day. I have personal evidence of global warming. I read the signs in plants and animals and know it’s real.

I’m a city boy, though, and none of that means anything to me. If I were a denialist—which I’m not—nothing you said would change my mind without explanation, which would lengthen it to the point that the average denialist mentality considers too long to be true.

I always think of this when reading science articles.

It looks like some people can’t tell the difference between links to religious brainwashed and those to science studiers.
Here’s a sample of the great ‘intel’ fed to U.S. citizens
http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/8741
The Real Problem With the Climate Science Emails
( note the source )
http://business.theatlantic.com/2009/11/the_real_problem_with_the_climate_science_emails.php
This one is where a science writer - with doctorate - refers me to a Professor Emeritus of Earth Sciences for his views. There’s more activity in comments.
http://my.opera.com/nepmak2000/blog/prof-ian-plimer-the-missing-science-a-final-word-on-the-nonsense-about-cli?cid=12366471

Hershele ,oquats are easy to grow in cities. Takes about eight square feet of well-watered ground. They are quite common in the south. They are fairly clold hardy, but bloom in fall and set fruit in winter. Another commenter mentioned that it’s rare to see thefruit in Atlanta. The cold that far inland probably kills the flowers or damages the fruit. Nearer the Atlantic and Gulf coasts, loquats give huge amounts of delicious fruit. Loquats in the Houston area used to fruit in May and June, now they fruit in March and April.

I’m sure you are familiar with bananas and know they are tropical plants. They are commonly grown on the Gulf coast for a tropical look. They get very battered in the winter. Years ago they got so battered that that they never fruited except near the bay. Now they get less battered and will fruit far inland. Different migratory birds show up too.

Surely there are some deniers who have long experence of local flora and fauna who if they thought about it would make the connection. Even the densest cities have enough wildlife that a careful observer might note the differences over time.

I’m also a provincial New Yorker and honestly know nothing of the climate differences between the tropics and Galveston, or Kansas, for that matter. But I’ll take your word that bananas should not grow in Galveston, or in November, or something—- again, provincial, and only got the gist.