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Next entry: Someone Will Get Shot Previous entry: Let’s hope Sara’s completely wrong about this

Abitrary But Fun Saturday: Day Late, Dollar Short Rise To The Challenge

Music

Michael has laid down another ABF challenge.

So, because it’s Friday and because some Fridays are Arbitrary (don’t ask why some Fridays are and some Fridays aren’t), here’s today’s Fun Game.  We have all agreed to strike the zither music from The Third Man and the epilogue from Harry Potter and the Couples Who Found Their Life Partners During Adolescence.  We have the technology to do this, too, what with the amazing Epilogue-B-Gon® and the space-age Dezitherer®.  What else should we do while we’re at it?  What cultural artifact is nearly ruined for you by just one thing whose removal would enhance your enjoyment of it immensely? Bull Durham without Kevin Costner? Salon without Camille Paglia? Remain in Light without “The Overload”?  Get out your blue pencils and your white-out and your antipagliafiers, people, and let’s have some fun—with a purpose!

I’m going to rise to the challenge because a) this week has been unbelievably depressing and we need some fun in here and b) it came up naturally in conversation over beers with my boyfriend last night.  The song “California Uber Alles” came on in the bar, and Marc idly suggested that the levels of humor and creativity in the Dead Kennedys’ music might make them the best punk band of all time. I demurred, but agreed that Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables is about as perfect and amazing an album as they come.  In fact, I argued, it’s not just that there’s no weak tracks, it’s that all the tracks are remarkably strong—-

And then came up short.  Because yes, I had unintentionally lied out loud and caught myself in the process of doing it.  Because as I sifted through my memories to those days when you’d buy an entire CD, put it on the player, and listen to it—-imagining myself in my old Toyota Corolla, sliding Fresh Fruit into the player and gleefully singing, “Economy is getting bad/Let’s start another war”—-to think of some tracks to back up my point, I remembered…..oh yeah, the one that always forced me to hit the “skip” button.


Yes, “Viva Las Vegas”. It’s a pointless, stupid cover.  They add nothing to a song that was already pretty stupid, and Jello Biafra trying to channel Elvis Presley isn’t funny or entertaining.  To make my pain worse, this song got revived on the soundtrack for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, which undoubtedly means that a whole generation of pot-smoking cult film enthusiasts who know they probably should know the Dead Kennedys but can’t be bothered to seek out their music now only know them from a song that is no way representative of the album or the band as a whole.  I can’t imagine this song compelling anyone to seek out the whole album. 

This is too bad, of course, because if you could excise “Viva Las Vegas” from the album, you have one the funniest, most inventive punk albums ever.  Of course, the intensely political nature of the album causes a particular kind of hipster white guy that unfortunately controls the world of music criticism to grab his ass and run in fear that someone might think he’s a person with terminally uncool concerns like love and war.  Like this quote that I cribbed off Wikipedia:

Spin (5/01, p.112) - Ranked #46 in Spin’s “50 Most Essential Punk Records” -“Fresh Fruit scans like an old anarchist newspaper. But ‘Kill the Poor’ sounds perfect for Dick Cheney’s America.”

Writing that list must have been painful for them, because while punk is not always political, it pretty frequently is—-I checked the list, and by my count, at least 20 of the 50 bands on there are politically shrill under the most conservative definition, which would be “holding your politics out on your sleeve and making it clear they’re important to you”.  I’m sure a conservative blogger would imagine all 50 are shrill. 

But I digress.  The funny thing about the way that the Dead Kennedys put the fear of being seen as momentarily unironic into some is that one listen to Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables shows you the joke’s on people who think passion and humor are at odds.  Plus, it’s just so fun to listen to.  It seems that the song-writing is more interesting every song, until the last song—-well, the last one in my version of the album—-“Holiday in Cambodia”, which really takes punk guitar playing to another level.  It manages to be atmospheric and intense and playful at once.  It’s a pretty unique song in the canon in a lot of ways.

But for some reason, my secret favorite song is “Stealing People’s Mail”.

It’s just the most absurd topic to write a song that sounds like that about.  It makes me want to blast it and go stealing people’s mail, because it’s such a good song it deserves it.  By the way, the cover is a photograph taken from the White Night riots.

So, rise to the challenge.  What movie/book/TV series/etc. would be a lot better if you could just slice one piece out of it?

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 02:36 PM • (90) Comments

X’s Los Angeles would be the single finest rock and roll album ever crafted in the annals of history if Ray Manzareck had stayed in the production booth and off of the god damned organ.

Comment #1: Sarcastro  on  08/08  at  04:24 PM

Hmm, not at all perfect, but Angel would have been vastly superior without that intensely crappy season where Cordelia was evil and pregnant. Also I hate to say this as a trans person but Yes means Yes would have been a perfect anti-rape book without the really crappy victim-blaming chapter by Julia Serrano. Way to make us all look like out-of-touch jackasses Julia.

Or ooh, what about Rachel Maddow without the faux shows of respect towards evil bigot Pat Buchannan?

Comment #2: Cerberus  on  08/08  at  04:29 PM

I’m the wrong person for this particular challenge because I’m very forgiving of things that I like- something has to be pretty undigestible for me to want to change it. But here goes:

The Young Ones - Lose the actor who played the “smooth” one- apparently he was a last minute replacement for a regular troupe member who was deemed to unreliable to have on the series.

To Live and Die in LA - Gritty, anti-heroic crime movie in the tradition of French Connection, marred by Wang Chung soundtrack.

Schindler’s List - I’ve only seen this once, but the Spielbergian group hug at the end bugged me.

Repo Man - I always turn it off before the flying scene at the end.

Straight to Hell - While we’re doing Alex Cox, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t miss Courtney Love if she were replaced with somebody slightly less abrasive.

Ferris Bueller’s Day Off - The parade scene is never pleasurable for me. I know it’s the emotional highlight of the film for some people.

M*A*S*H - The series went to hell as soon as Mike Farrell grew the mustache- draw your own conclusions.

Happy Days - Same goes for Joanie’s perm. As reliable a marker of decline as the “jumping the shark” episode, if the show didn’t already suck in the first place.

Comment #3: tb  on  08/08  at  04:38 PM

Cerberus, I disagree with Angel S4 but I will see you, and raise you Buffy S6 where Willow gets addicted to magic.  I had really loved the first part of S6 and considered it the apogee of Buffy, but then I also love Matrix Reloaded as well, so who knows?

If I never read another cry rape plotline with the besieged righteous male and upright woman struggling through it, it will be too soon.  It poisoned my enjoyment of Sandra McDonald novels.

Emo.

Emo and all of its derivations: Die Already.

Comment #4: shah8  on  08/08  at  04:39 PM

I’ve always been of the opinion that the new Star Wars trilogy would be much better if you edited out all of Anakin’s lines and almost all of Padme’s lines to Anakin.

Comment #5: laterose  on  08/08  at  04:43 PM

I never saw the DK version of Viva Las Vegas as Biafra trying to channel Elvis but him (and the band by extension) as trying to skewer yet another sacred cow. My memories of the late ‘70s are a tad hazy due to only being four when Elvis died, but I’m pretty sure he was still highly venerated by the time Fresh Fruit was recorded.

I cop to it that it doesn’t ‘fit’ with the album and could stand to be deleted. But I’m more forgiving of their covers (even of their own work) simply because it was always interesting to hear their take on it. However, I believe the better versions of Holiday in Cambodia and California Uber Alles ended up in Rock Band.

And I’d cut the really cheesy ending to Back to the Future 3. It was already pretty fantastical, but Doc Brown and his family showing up in a giant time traveling train? Geez… You lost me there.

Comment #6: Santa Claustrophobia  on  08/08  at  04:54 PM

They would also be improved by editing out the endless droning conversations about trade disputes staged in front of vistas of futuristic space-traffic, as well as the utterly devoid-of-interest action sequences, but there wouldn’t be anything left. Better to just edit the entire mess to a landfill and be done with it.

Comment #7: tb  on  08/08  at  04:54 PM

And I’d cut Venom from Spider-Man 3. What idiot thought that Venom’s creation and then death as a sideplot in an already low point filled movie was a good idea? Giving short shrift to one of MARVEL’s most iconic villains? I personally don’t care for the character but even I realise it deserves it’s own movie as the main bad guy. (And I’d cut the whinging about Topher Grace as Eddie Brock while I’m at it. S-M3 already had enough problems, the portrayal of Brock was minor on the list.)

I’d also eliminate as much of the ‘real world’ stuff as I could from the Matrix sequels. There’s so much to choose from that should be cut, but exactly who wanted to go see a Matrix movie that didn’t have much of the Matrix in it?

Comment #8: Santa Claustrophobia  on  08/08  at  05:29 PM

Straight to Hell - While we’re doing Alex Cox, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t miss Courtney Love if she were replaced with somebody slightly less abrasive.

Yea, but the character’s fiery death-scene would have been much less cathartic.

Comment #9: Sarcastro  on  08/08  at  05:36 PM

The mediocre “Star” off of Ziggy Stardust. Anything wrong with just 10 tracks on the album?

Comment #10: Seebach  on  08/08  at  05:37 PM

Last two seasons of The X-Files.  Hands.  Down.

Comment #11: Maureen  on  08/08  at  05:39 PM

The Young Ones - Lose the actor who played the “smooth” one- apparently he was a last minute replacement for a regular troupe member who was deemed to unreliable to have on the series.

YES yes yes! his name is Mike and he’s fucking useless. The only plotline that even involved him in a halfway pivitol role was when he meets cinderella at the party, runs out of the room for a minute, and returns to see she became a pumpkin. but that’s just funny because anyone’s date becoming a pumpkin would be funny. I’ve never met a person who liked him, he really is completely useless.

I always skipped the Viva Las Vegas cover too. Same way I skip “Dominated Loveslave” on Kerplunk!, uninspired obnoxious filler in the middle of an otherwise epic album.

Comment #12: jessilikewhoa  on  08/08  at  05:40 PM

What idiot thought that Venom’s creation and then death as a sideplot in an already low point filled movie was a good idea?

The same rat-bastard who turned The Phoenix Saga into a side-plot in an already low-point filled X-Men 3?

Comment #13: Sarcastro  on  08/08  at  05:41 PM

The Transformers 2007 movie universe without Revenge of the Fallen.

Transformers Animated without the chins.

LiveJournal without the ongoing DDOS attack.  (I know, not really valid here, but I can’t get anything and it’s really really really damn frustrating.)

Comment #14: Kyra  on  08/08  at  05:57 PM

“The Maltese Falcon” without Mary Astor. The first time I saw it, I thought she was wrong for the part, and could never have anything that’d turn Spade’s head. Her voice bugged me, her brittle demeanor bugged me. Not sure who I’d put in her place, though…

As for music critics, I think I quit reading music magazines when I realized that all their critics hated any albums that weren’t just like the ones they grew up listening to in high school. I remember one guy’s book I read where he listed off Things That Should Never Ever Be in Rock Songs, and when you thought about his list much at all, you realized that he’d just nixed so, so many great rock songs…

Comment #15: Scott  on  08/08  at  06:06 PM

Straight to Hell - While we’re doing Alex Cox, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t miss Courtney Love if she were replaced with somebody slightly less abrasive.

Yea, but the character’s fiery death-scene would have been much less cathartic.

Oh, I forgot that part- I don’t know why, but I always find the screaming hilarious.

Comment #16: tb  on  08/08  at  06:18 PM

To Live and Die in LA - Gritty, anti-heroic crime movie in the tradition of French Connection, marred by Wang Chung soundtrack.

Now, what’s funny is the only Wang Chung song I like IS “To Live and Die in LA”.  And no one ever plays it.  It’s always “Everybody Wang Chung Tonight”, which, even at the time, was treated as even stupider than “The Safety Dance”.

If they had stuck with Willow really becoming the Big Bad, as originally intended, and not wimped out with a sudden random “Magic is a DRUG!  Just say NO!” storyline,  it would have been better.  But of course, NOT KILLING TARA, would have been for the best.  I have yet to see another homosexual couple on TV portrayed so well or as so normal.  They were good for America.

After high school, Giles should have bought the Magic Shop and used those profits to fund the Slayer.  Why was she in college?  She has her destiny.  She knows her purpose.  She knows the world needs her.

I know Joss was way into Firefly and had left his original Slayer behind, but, really, finding a showrunner who didn’t HATE the main character and see the need to force Riley = teh AWESOME and Buffy is STOOPID on us would have been nice.

Damn.  Lots more Buffy resentment here than I thought.

Veronica Mars  1 perfect season.  Just stop.  Or pick up AFTER she finished college (and fit the actors real ages anyway).  Season 2 was a nightmare of character betrayal and seemed to suffer from the same “I hate the protagonist” problems as Buffy.

Season 1 VM had damn good reasons for being standoffish.  Season 2 VM was a stereotypical bitch for no good reason.

As for Star Wars?  How about sticking with the original plan?  VADER IS NOT LUKE’S FATHER.  Yes, it was a “cool twist”, except that it totally fucked up Ben Kenobi’s character.  Obi Wan is no longer an incredibly wise figure and the Big Good to Vader’s Big Bad.  Obi Wan is a fool.  Vader is a wimp to the Emperor.  Bad move, but not as bad as making Leia Luke’s sister so no one fusses when Han wins her in the end

Just kill the first movie, why don’t you.  You made “Willow”—your “good mom vs. bad mom” movie.  Why did you have to turn Star Wars into “good dad vs. bad dad”?  Just MAKE A DIFFERENT MOVIE.

And take all the CGI crap out of the Special Editions.  Han and Leia repeat the same lines over and over and over now, and all the aliens and extra noises are distracting.

As for the prequels?  I was rewriting them WHILE WATCHING THEM.  That’s bad.  Really bad.  There’s more to movies than good CGI, and just b/c you can spend all your time creating backstories that will never been in the movies doesn’t mean you SHOULD spend all your time on the backstories and not properly focus and edit the main storyline.

Robot Chicken’s takedown of Vader calling Palpatine and crying is the best response.

Oh, X-Men 3?  Victimized by the same crap plotting as Batman 2.  Why the Penguin?  The story with Catwoman was rich enough for a whole movie.  Same with X-3.  Phoenix alone, reimagined even, is more than enough for one movie.  Why shoehorn it in as a shared or side plot?  Give it the time it deserves.

Grrrr.  Stop making movies by committee, especially when the committee is made up of USC Film School and Communication grads who are more concerned with marketability than telling a good story.

Comment #17: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/08  at  06:21 PM

I’ll add that Purple Rain without the plot parts, if it were just the concert scenes, would be sublime.

Comment #18: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/08  at  06:25 PM

Angel would have been vastly superior without that intensely crappy season where Cordelia was evil and pregnant.

But but…evil Charisma Carpenter is so awesome!  And we got Jasmine, the best Big Bad ever (with the worst ending, urgh!)  Seriously, how cool is a villain that gives you a magical unicorn candyland of happiness and sucks your free will right out of your ear?  Gina Torres does benevolently evil so well.

I vote for that season needing a Conner-ectomy instead.  The whole show, really, even when Conner became kind of cool he was still barf-worthy.  I also vote for Buffy without the whole Riley thing, even when the writing for that season was pretty good, he just threw off major Nice Guy vibes.  Blurgh.

I’d rather watch deeply flawed shows like Charmed and look for the things they did right than watch barf-worthy characters parade through really good shows.

Comment #19: Godless Heathen  on  08/08  at  06:43 PM

They would also be improved by editing out the endless droning conversations about trade disputes staged in front of vistas of futuristic space-traffic, as well as the utterly devoid-of-interest action sequences, but there wouldn’t be anything left. Better to just edit the entire mess to a landfill and be done with it.

I maintain there’s a brilliant 5-6 minute short film in there somewhere. 

just b/c you can spend all your time creating backstories that will never been in the movies doesn’t mean you SHOULD spend all your time on the backstories and not properly focus and edit the main storyline.

This.  Very much so. 

Also, Okami without Issun would have been a much better game.  There’s a “heartwrenching” scene near the end where Amaterasu goes where Issun can’t follow.  All I could do was cheer.  Finally I got to play a level of the game without that lecherous tick.

Comment #20: laterose  on  08/08  at  06:48 PM

BSG without…


...OK, this is a spoiler so give me some elbow room here…

...Starbuck being an angel. I’d rather they just have left that little mystery unsolved then make her something that lame. I just pretend that instead of disappearing, she and Apollo just went off to explore the earth and have adventures.

Comment #21: Keith  on  08/08  at  06:52 PM

I really dug season 4 of Angel, in fact it’s probably my favorite out of all five.  I think that Buffy would have been a much better show without the last two seasons, although no “Once More, With Feeling” would be a big loss.

But really if anything could be removed from the Joss Whedon canon it should be the entirety of Dollhouse.  What a terrible fucking show.  How I made it through the entire first season is a complete mystery, though I’ve given it up for good now.

Comment #22: dead souls  on  08/08  at  06:58 PM

My contribution is garfield minus garfield

Joss Whedon had one hell of a story to tell about high school and a certain period of adolescence.  And then his characters graduated, and a lot of the emotional center of the story was lost.  Not that there weren’t occasionally awesome episodes or plot arcs, and he was left with a bunch of excellent characters.  But he was groping for some kind of story to tell, and it didn’t always work out right, like the Willow magic addiction storyline that people are talking about.

Comment #23: Neil the Ethical Werewolf  on  08/08  at  07:08 PM

The same rat-bastard who turned The Phoenix Saga into a side-plot in an already low-point filled X-Men 3?

X-Men 3? What X-Men 3?

Comment #24: Santa Claustrophobia  on  08/08  at  07:11 PM

I have yet to see another homosexual couple on TV portrayed so well or as so normal.

David and Keith on Six Feet Under, and they kept that going for 5 seasons.  Sure, they were fucked up, but no more fucked up than anyone else on that show (and probably less so than anyone except Claire).

One of my all-time favorite lines is still Keith telling their therapist, “I thought that by being gay, I could avoid marrying my mother, but I guess not.”

Comment #25: Mnemosyne  on  08/08  at  07:15 PM

I think I’m the only person here who didn’t hate the Willow magic addiction plotline.

I understand why people were upset about Tara being murdered, but it would have been nice to not go so over-the-top with it that Amber Benson refused to come back for her planned storyline in Season 7 and they had to do some major rewriting to cover up the plot hole.

My most hated is the ending of A League of Their Own.  For some reason, it bugged the crap out of me that they had Dottie deliberately lose the game to soothe her sister’s ego.  It didn’t fit either one of their characters and made no sense at all, except that the writers had a pre-determined ending that had to happen.

Comment #26: Mnemosyne  on  08/08  at  07:20 PM

Colbert had a FABULOUS line the other night:  The Mayans warned us… assuming they warned us that one day computer graphics would strip movies of any plot or characterization and turn them into mindless orgies of destruction porn.

SPOILER ALERT, TORCHWOOD:  CHILDREN OF THE EARTH


Would have been so much better had they not killed Ianto.

Comment #27: Siobhan  on  08/08  at  07:27 PM

Any 30 second piece of music on any album in between “real” songs. Waste of space. Yes, even Eddie Van Halen’s “Eruption”.

Comment #28: Mark  on  08/08  at  07:34 PM

Yes, even Eddie Van Halen’s “Eruption”.

Sure, why not? Maybe climb up and knock the dick off Michelangelo’s David while you’re at it.

Comment #29: tb  on  08/08  at  08:00 PM

Veronica Mars 1 perfect season.  Just stop.  Or pick up AFTER she finished college (and fit the actors real ages anyway).

I really wish more tv shows would stop after one season. Most show creators have one good idea for a story, and shouldn’t strain themselves trying to come up with more and ruining their characters in the process. Not all viewers five-year-olds who constantly need to know what happened after the story ended and can’t let go of their favorite characters.

Comment #30: junk science  on  08/08  at  08:07 PM

Oops, “not all viewers are five-year-olds.”

Comment #31: junk science  on  08/08  at  08:08 PM

Friday Night Lights without the second season.

Comment #32: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/08  at  08:25 PM

he’s kidding, right? the zither music in “The Third Man” is like, the best thing in the entire world.  that’s like saying “Star Wars is a great movie and all, but let’s get rid of those laser swords!”

Comment #33: jamesf  on  08/08  at  08:53 PM

???

The Bush/Chaney administration without Bush and Chaney?

Comment #34: Magis  on  08/08  at  09:01 PM

The X-Men minus Wolverine. Or at least the shitty boring Wolverine-Sue that replaced what started out as a fairly okay character.

The Sopranos minus basically the entire 6th/6.5th seasons.

The Sopranos minus every episode where Tony is dreaming.

<boxquote>The Bush/Chaney administration without Bush and Chaney?</boxquote>

So what, Don Rumsfeld and John Ashcroft running the country?

Yeah, pass.

Comment #35: Dan  on  08/08  at  09:57 PM

This site minus not being able to edit anything after the fact.

Comment #36: Dan  on  08/08  at  09:57 PM

Friday Night Lights without the second season.

Too damn true.

Grey’s Anatomy without Izzy.

Comment #37: Godless Heathen  on  08/08  at  10:04 PM

Same way I skip “Dominated Loveslave” on Kerplunk!, uninspired obnoxious filler in the middle of an otherwise epic album.

Funny….I thought “Dominated Loveslave” added a humorous touch to the rest of the album.  That…and the fact that was one of two songs* which made me think of a certain asshole teacher I had in my first year of high school…..

* The other song was Android.

Comment #38: exholt  on  08/08  at  10:05 PM

OK Computer without “Fitter Happier.”  I always skip it.  I suppose it makes sense as part of a concept album, but who listens to that track? Anyone? I doubt it.

They should have put “Polyethlene Parts 1 & 2” on the album instead.

(Radiohead, for those who don’t know)

Comment #39: alli  on  08/08  at  10:16 PM

Shit. I loved that zither music. Made up for much of the rest of the movie.

I’m glad I stopped watching BSG, but after B5 I pretty much wanted a moratorium on “every sufficiently advanced race is indistinguishable from religion” thing.

Comment #40: paul  on  08/08  at  10:17 PM

ok, so as long as we’re all letting our geek flags fly…


I could have done without the bit in the Lord of the Rings movies where Faramir kidnaps Sam and Frodo and takes them back to Gondor.  They should have just left it like it was in the books.  Serious mistake.  Completely misses the entire point of the entire fucking trilogy.  And what was that whole worg-rider chase scene on the way to Helm’s Deep about anyway?  I mean, really, WTF?  You cut the scouring of the shire ostensibly because of time concerns, but you add a pointless fifteen minute battle? WTFF, man?

Comment #41: jamie d  on  08/08  at  10:20 PM

alli- as long as we’re talking radiohead, how about pablo honey without stop whispering?

really, please, stop whispering.  stop shouting too.

Comment #42: jamie d  on  08/08  at  10:22 PM

jamie d, i like stop whispering!!  i’d much rather have the bends without the insipid, whiny “fake plastic trees.”  but i realize i’m a minority on that one.  it’s my least favorite radiohead album.  except “sulk,” which kicks ass.

Comment #43: alli  on  08/08  at  10:26 PM

agree 100% on fake plastic trees.  whiny- check.  insipid-check.

Comment #44: jamie d  on  08/08  at  10:33 PM

Rachel Sweet without Rex Smith and “Everlasting Love”

Comment #45: James  on  08/08  at  10:51 PM

My fiance and I were just talking about “Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.” I contend it would be better without Willie. He says it would be better without Short Round.

Comment #46: MissCherryPi  on  08/08  at  11:07 PM

Grey’s Anatomy without Izzy.

Up yours.  Grey’s Anatomy without friggin’ Meredith.  Whiny wishy-washy-

Um, not that I watch the show, of course.

Comment #47: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/08  at  11:19 PM

Isn’t this a really good way to start a cathartic flamewar?

Comment #48: shah8  on  08/08  at  11:54 PM

Clash of the Titans without fuckin’ Bubo the robot owl.

I’m sorry but that was very important to say.

Comment #49: brandon  on  08/09  at  12:06 AM

Michael Jackson’s “The Girl is Mine”, without the “doggone”. Who the fuck says “doggone?” No one says “doggone”.

Also, the chipmunk at the end of “P.Y.T.”

The ending of Disturbed’s “Down with the Sickness”- I’m not crazy about the song anyway, but the spoken word bit at the end cracks me up every time. Not the intended effect.

Bill Hicks without the misogyny. Actually I can say that about a lot of comedians I like…

Resident Evil 4 without Ashley’s uselessness. PICK UP A GUN GIRL!

Comment #50: kaje  on  08/09  at  12:22 AM

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TroperTales/DisContinuity

Personally, if you made the Watchmen movie even closer to the book, but took out the bits that are clichéd now and the violence porn, it’d be one of my favorites.

Comment #51: HonoreDB  on  08/09  at  12:29 AM

Also!

O Brother Where Art Thou? without the “no atheists in foxholes” part. I stop watching right before that.

Signs without the god crap and the stooopid alien weakness.

Comment #52: kaje  on  08/09  at  12:42 AM

The end of Tomb Raider II where Lara Croft shoots the guy.  It just didn’t even kind of make sense—it felt like the original idea was for the ending to work back the way it did, then they wrote the script in between, and the male lead character evolved, but they had to shoehorn him back into his final scene the way it was originally planned. 

But it felt stupid and contrived, not awful.

Comment #53: Punditus Maximus  on  08/09  at  01:40 AM

I really wish they’d murdered Willow instead of Tara. It would have made the point of the show that much more eloquent and moving.

Comment #54: felagund  on  08/09  at  01:42 AM

They could have taken out Xander while they were at it. And Anya.

Comment #55: junk science  on  08/09  at  02:10 AM

Removing Andrew from Buffy Season 7 would have done a world of good—- I think he was one of the most obnoxious comic relief characters of all time.  Based on the DVD commentaries the show’s writers loved him for some inexplicable reason.

Comment #56: topometropolis  on  08/09  at  02:17 AM

Isn’t this a really good way to start a cathartic flamewar?

Here’s a couple of ways to do it:

1. Proclaim one cover version of “I fought the law” is the definitive best one….especially if it is by a group other than The Crickets, Bobby Fuller 4, or The Clash and watch the flames fly…...

2. Declaring that the Dead Kennedys either enhanced or “defiled” the “I fought the Law” song.*  Bonus if you can start another flame war over whether even The Clash did it at their live concert in December 1978 at the London Lyceum. 


* Personally I like the cover though Jello Biafra’s voice does get annoying at certain points on the following youtube video version of that song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbCqwl2geQg

.

Comment #57: exholt  on  08/09  at  02:25 AM

I’m still reeling from the suggestion of Remain in Light without The Overload. That’s as close to sacrilege as you can get with this atheist.

Comment #58: pablo  on  08/09  at  02:25 AM

Also, Harry Potter would be better without Ron Weasley, who was basically a useless git after the first couple of books.  Or at least Hermione shouldn’t have had to fall for him…

Comment #59: topometropolis  on  08/09  at  02:26 AM

Actually, Harry Potter would have been better if the titular character had been the one that snuffed it at the end of the sixth book.  The seventh would have been his friends (including “the useless git”) stepping up to the plate.

Comment #60: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/09  at  02:40 AM

Ron was fine; he was just a lousy match for Hermione, which ended up poisoning his character retroactively.

LotR without Gimli being pimped QUITE so hard for comic relief.  Or, for another ABFF, to add a single scene which would improve a movie, a scene where Gimli gets to have a Moment Of Awesome vaguely in line with Legolas taking down the Oliphant.

Comment #61: Punditus Maximus  on  08/09  at  03:04 AM

Undeclared, the show I started skipping Buffy for when the magic addiction plotline came along… without the celebrity guests. Adam Sandler. Will Ferrell. Heck, include Loudon Wainwright III if you want; the awkward “Dad wants to be hip!” scenes were always just painful.

(Now that Seth Rogen and Judd Apatow have turned out to be kind of a detriment to our culture, I’m a little ashamed to stand up for Undeclared, but that’s life.)

Comment #62: Cavity Lee  on  08/09  at  03:09 AM

erm - while i didn’t *like* the whole “addicted to magic” bullshit (at least not how it was portrayed - it started off well, i thought, with Tara catching Willow fucking with her head and all - it’s just the rest, the “looking for a buzz” affect, when the point should have been Willow being addicted to the POWER, not the buzz - and the fucking melting things with “magic overflow” or whatever the fuck that was. look, i say this OFTEN - MAGIC is NOT A DRUG, and DOES NOT CORRELATE to DRUG USE. it would be properly used as a POWER CORRUPTS plot. for fuck’s sake this makes me so mad every time i think about it. sigh. because that POWER CORRUPTS plot was [and still is] a sorely needed POINT that needs to be made in our culture, and would be fucking awesome if high school students - the target demographic - got to see the BAD parts of a “nice person” getting lots of power…)

erm, what else - i am sure there is lots and lots and lots, but i a having trouble thinking of something someone else hasn’t already mentioned…

Comment #63: denelian  on  08/09  at  04:11 AM

Rocky Horror—Scene just before “Toucha-Toucha Touch Me”)

JANET—-If only we hadn’t…
AUDIENCE—-BUT YOU DID!

I don’t know what it says about me but it’s not easy for me to think of any body of art where I think, “Damn, this is almost perfect, if only they hadn’t done X.” Actually I reacted that way very strongly to many Stephen King plots in high school. But eventually I realized that wishing that this or that character had reacted differently—less stupidly—to a situation was basically asking for a different story, indeed a different sort of story. I tend to accept the vision of artists as having integrity, and accept or reject it en bloc.

So with Joss Whedon. And by the way it seems to me that blaming Marti Noxon (or whomever else one wants to blame) for ruining Buffy while Joss was off distracted with something else is wrong—Mutant Enemy is clearly an ensemble sort of gig, with Joss Whedon clearly in charge of all of it. All the people left in charge of Buffy while Whedon was “off” developing Firefly and for that matter Angel continue to work with him collaboratively on his later projects, notably both Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog and Dollhouse—Noxon has a cameo in the former as a newscaster for instance.

So when I watched Buffy for the first time, which I did in one long (couple of months) binge of renting the DVDs continually and watching entire four-episode disks sometimes in one go, and pretty much ignorant of all this behind-the-scenes stuff, knowing only that lots of people felt that the series went to hell in its later seasons—I experienced it as a body of work that had integrity from beginning to end. Anything that seemed “wrong” to me seemed inherent in Whedon’s take on things and inherent in the show’s premise.

Look at Firefly for instance. As with Buffy i’d totally missed its original airing and saw it all in one rental binge. But I’d seen The Big Gorram Movie first, probably the first thing by Whedon I’d ever seen (well, it turns out he’d done a lot, such as being a lead writer on Roseanne, plus I’d seen the original Buffy movie) and liked it. Then I started watching the series, and realized the movie was a tourniquet applied to the bloody stump of the terminated show.

But on second thought—every sad and sickening aspect of Serenity was inherent in the premise of the show, at least as it had evolved by its last filmed episode. Once anyone in the Alliance bureaucracy—at least anyone who would reliably report back up the chain of command—suspected River Tam might be on board “Serenity” the ship—then their wholescale scorched earth approach to nabbing Malcolm Reynolds and company would become only logical. In the filmed episodes one could hope that hitherto the crew had, defying all logic and odds, somehow eluded detection—except that in “Objects in Space” Jubal Early said that the authorities had them tagged “since Ariel.” Maybe what he meant was that the information was there, for anyone clever enough to piece it together, such as himself—and he, as a bounty hunter, probably had not tipped anyone else off, hoping to get the bounty for himself. Certainly Alliance authority was corrupt enough that one could hope similar motives (such as ruled the police chief on Ariel) would tend to keep the system ignorant—a classic example of Robert Anton Wilson/Richard Shea’s “SNAFU Principle.” But the Operatives were not your usual Alliance oligarchial thugs—they were a different order of thug altogether. If Early was tracking Serenity, so should they have been. And that meant that the series could hardly continue to skip merrily along from one picaresque adventure to another. Something would have to change.

No doubt as it did some fans would look to every shift in staff assignments at Mutant Enemy to blame.

Comment #64: Mark Foxwell  on  08/09  at  08:46 AM

Oh by the way—
Star Wars is something that, especially after the idiocy of the “Prequel” movies, I reject rather than accept in toto.

BUT here’s a sovereign cure for all that ails it, in a Mystery Science 3000 sort of way. I’ve mentioned this before but here it’s actually on topic!

How to fix Star Wars? Just assume it’s being made up as we go along by typical role-playing gamers…hilarity ensues.

Comment #65: Mark Foxwell  on  08/09  at  08:53 AM

Isn’t this a really good way to start a cathartic flamewar?

No, not really.  I don’t think anyone here takes their tastes seriously enough to get upset if someone disagrees with them.

Comment #66: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/09  at  09:39 AM

Mark, I think the “blame Marti Noxon” thing mostly relates to the fact that she openly brought the Riley character in because she wanted to write up some relationship she’d had in college as Buffy’s experience.  She didn’t understand that just because something has great meaning to you doesn’t mean it will play well as meaningful for a general audience.  It’s obvious the whole point of bringing Riley on was to make him a sympathetic character who simply can’t stand to date a woman with more power/talent than he has, which is something that does happen to bright women all the time, but it just didn’t work on “Buffy”.  I think it’s because the brilliance of that show was that it would play these issues out metaphorically, but the Buffy/Riley thing was boring and literal. 

Contrast it with the Buffy/Angel plot of season 2, which was the show’s master stroke.  (Along with the Buffy/Faith plot, which was a perfect metaphorical distillation of how female rivalries go down.)  It’s pure metaphor for the way a lot of young relationships go sour because of young men with huge masculinity issues. Yes, Angel literally turns into a monster because the power of love to make him happy removes his soul, but it resonates because it’s so much like the way man young men, when they first find themselves falling in love and feeling real joy about it, completely panic.  Because girls are for fucking, not loving, and the latter has the potential to unman you.  One of the most evocative images of that plot arch was Angel, after having sex with Buffy, trying to wash the stench of “human” (read: femininity) off him.  Or Buffy standing there, heartbroken, as her boyfriend who was whispering loving things in her ear while he made love to her just hours before acts like she’s a pain in his ass and being unreasonably needy.  Women in the audience could relate. 

In general, the show was amazing at looking at the way that the patriarchal construction of masculinity ruins men, by turning them into literal monsters on the show.  Oz was an interesting way to grapple with another common phenomenon, which is the hip, progressive guy who’s got lurking issues.  I imagine his werewolf-ness to be much like a progressive guy’s secret fascination with abusive, angry porn, and how he convinces himself that it won’t affect his relationship with his girlfriend, but how it seeps in at inopportune moments.  Or he’s the musician who means well, but gives into cheating while on the road because women fling themselves at him.  Indeed, Oz and Willow broke up because he cheated.  Sure, he was a werewolf at the time, but we find out he deliberately put himself into a situation where he’d turn wolf in time to cheat.  It’s a direct equivalent to someone who cheats while drunk, someone who wanted to cheat and got drunk so they could do it.

But Riley?  Not a monster, and not a metaphor.  Booooo-ring.

Comment #67: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/09  at  10:06 AM

Mnemo, Six Feet Under is cable, not TV, not to detract from that series at all.  Buffy might have been on a minor network, but it was available for millions more people than HBO is, and that’s why I said Willow/Tara was good for America.

As for Buffy herself, there are two schools of thought on the character.  You either like her, like I do, and think she WAS a shallow girl who when confronted with her destiny became better and stronger, or you hate her and think she’s still shallow and deserves to be a loser compared to NiceGuy Riley and totally deserved Xander’s Liie b/c she can’t be trusted to do the right thing.

Why tell the story of Buffy and not another Slayer?  B/c she’s the best.  She’s not just a tool.

Or she is, and she deserves to be sad forever b/c no one as good as Riley will ever love her b/c she’s really just a shallow thing that won’t even stop apocalypses if she’s given an option. 

Seriously, those episodes bug so much, b/c Riley just *isn’t* good enough.  Yes, he’s supposed to be an antidote to Angel, but the result wasn’t quite it.

Marti Noxon is definitely part of the “I hate Buffy Summers” clan.  Hence, the ick.

Firefly was betrayed, and Serenity is the culmination of the series—>the whole plan.  I think it all holds together so much better b/c Joss wanted to tell another Slayer story, but the world he created around her, and the people he created were so gorram likable.  Mal & Co are really side characters to the River Tam Story, but the series format allowed them to be the main characters and for River’s story to hide and lurk and threaten in the background.  I think they were rich enough to sustain several seasons, but the untimely end followed by a chance to wrap it up forced a lot of nonsense out and focused the production.

Can you imagine the Star Wars prequels if Lucas had had to answer to anyone?  If he’d had to condence his storyline into ONE movie?  If he’d had to FOCUS on what was really important in order to get to the big fight over the volcano?

Veronica Mars was supposed to be a YA novel.  That’s why the first season is so good—it had a point.  Resolving that point and having Veronica understand what happened to her and to start to move on is totally destroyed by Season 2, where the network wants a repeat—>so suddenly Veronica is just bristly, her confidences in Wallace forgotton, her family made outcasts over and over again in order to fill out a checklist and not for character or story reasons.

Just stop at 1.  I don’t own many series, but I own VM season 1.  It’s awesome.

Comment #68: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/09  at  10:07 AM

“Stealing People’s Mail” is my fave track off that album too… it’s just so fun.

Comment #69: atheist  on  08/09  at  10:10 AM

The Downward Spiral without “Hurt”.

It always seemed out of place to me.  Besides, it would leave Johnny Cash with THE version.

Comment #70: Thlayli  on  08/09  at  10:45 AM

Honestly, the Riley thing WAS still a social commentary storyline—just because it was straight up one, and not a metaphor doesn’t diminish it.

He couldn’t handle a relationship with Buffy if she was stronger/better/more super than she.  He HAD to be a superman in order to not feel emasculated.  It also really developed Buffy’s character—she had to face the idea of real love again, and make a decision to fully commit or not. 

The whole thing was about maturing, and each season had its own rite of passage.  Season 6 definitely sucked in some ways, but it also showed Buffy maturing in that way all privileged* children have to—when we realize at some point we have to pay our own rent and work and it sucks. 

*By “privileged” here I mean those of us that grew up with enough to eat and didn’t have to work through high school to help our parents pay the bills.

Comment #71: Siobhan  on  08/09  at  11:37 AM

jamie d: Am TOTALLY with you on the Faramir taking Frodo back to Gondor scene. I spent the first half of the Two Towers going, “Peter Jackson, I almost forgive you for movie 1,” and the second half going, “Oh, no you didn’t mess with Faramir, noooooooo!” The whole point is that Faramir is NOT Boromir. He’s good from the start, and honest, and sticks to his principles. (This is why Denethor had issues with him once Boromir died. Because Faramir was one of Gandalf’s students and was smarter than Boromir and totally knew better.)  And yes, why the Worg scene? That isn’t in the books.

Comment #72: PixelFish  on  08/09  at  01:00 PM

I suspect everyone will want to stab me for this particular opinion, but….

Buffy without the attempted rape plotline. 

It just doesn’t work.  Buffy is physically much more powerful than Spike, and both of them know it.  Spike *cannot* force himself on Buffy.  So, when they try to stick Buffy into the role of powerless victim, it just rings false.  I get that Spike’s intent matters, but really, with the way they seem to like their sex, Spike’s behavior doesn’t seem so far out of line (with the caveat, again, that they both know Buffy can kick Spike’s ass if she wants to).  But I digress.  The point really is, Buffy is *not* in the position of having no power over what happens to her body, or even really needing to worry that that could happen.  But she still ends up traumatized over the fiasco, and it plays out like you’d think an attempted rape plotline ought to. 

You don’t see a whole lot of rape/attempted rape plotlines on TV, and so it’s that much more important for them to do a good job with this.  But this plotline just seemed to involve everyone freaking out about the possibility of something that, really, was never ever going to happen.  And *that* bothers me, because I get the feeling that a lot of people take the “what are you worried about (stupid over-emotional women!)—everything turned out fine, didn’t it?” attitude toward rape attempts in which the ‘victim’ is traumatized because there was *actually* a real, true danger.  This plotline just confirms their worst suspicions about how women are all over-reacting. 

...and all in a show which is otherwise so excellently feminist-y and awesome.

Comment #73: Zha  on  08/09  at  01:20 PM

I don’t think there was anything unappealing about the themes of BTVS seasons six and seven; it was just a quality drop.  They put less time into it, and it shows more in the occasional bouts of lazy dialogue and scripting than in any overall lack of sophistication.

Comment #74: HonoreDB  on  08/09  at  01:21 PM

Well, Amanda, you never know.  With all the otakus of various stripes hanging around…

But y’all are making Captain Whitebread sound more interesting than he ever was in the show…  We haven’t gotten to the part where he is socialized into attempting to have control over Buffy—his friend Forrest and the other members of the Initiative.

Siobhan, that is precisely what I liked about Season 6, not just so much about privilege, but everything about how privilege makes you unsuitable for real life and work experience.

Comment #75: shah8  on  08/09  at  02:57 PM

“Stealing People’s Mail” is my fave track off that album too… it’s just so fun.

Yes. Yes, it is.


I’d like to delete the plot point in Quantam Leap that decided that it was Sam’s physical body occupying the space with some kind of magic/voodoo image/sound thing that everybody else sees and hears. Instead of trusting the audience to understand that we see Scott Bakula because it helps us to identify with the character. Instead we’re given an answer that just brings up more questions.

I’d also like to get rid of much of the last half of Season 5 when they started breaking their own ‘rules’ because they knew the end was coming. And their failure to fully develop QL2 (with the ‘problem child’ Samantha looking for her father) just adds to the aggravation.

Comment #76: Santa Claustrophobia  on  08/09  at  04:20 PM

Siobhan, that is precisely what I liked about Season 6, not just so much about privilege, but everything about how privilege makes you unsuitable for real life and work experience.

And how she had to step up anyway.  She would probably have eased into it after college, but she was thrown right into the deep end.  And she did step up.

Comment #77: Siobhan  on  08/09  at  04:37 PM

She did step up, but it was at a very steep price in terms of self-fulfillment and sense of possibilities.  I thought it was really kind of real how that was.  Very few people ever get to be the ONE for all that much more than 15 minutes.  The depression of her soul by the weight of so many insignificant others who judge and control her life in the real world was really realistic to me.

Comment #78: shah8  on  08/09  at  04:49 PM

She did step up, but it was at a very steep price

It always is.  You’re right.

Comment #79: Siobhan  on  08/09  at  05:33 PM

one more:  Storm Large “8 Miles Wide” without the ONE LINE of slut-shaming towards the end.  Everything else about it is PERFECT.

Comment #80: Siobhan  on  08/09  at  06:16 PM

It’s obvious the whole point of bringing Riley on was to make him a sympathetic character who simply can’t stand to date a woman with more power/talent than he has, which is something that does happen to bright women all the time, but it just didn’t work on “Buffy”.

It didn’t work b/c Noxon continued to make Riley the sympathetic one and Buffy the bitch.  Which was ass-backwards. 

I don’t care if Riley’s a great guy…as long as he’s dating someone dumber than he is who can stroke his ego.  He was dating Buffy, and his inability to deal with it wasn’t Buffy’s fault.

Ugh, and the episode where he came back married, just to rub salt in Buffy’s wounds?  Buffy was what?  19-20?  And she’s supposed to want to be married already?  and to a guy who was jerky to her?

Ugh.  Riley sucked.  If they would have allowed him to suck instead of pushing the “Riley’s teh awesome; too bad, so sad for Buffy” then it would have worked.

When Angel went bad, they sure as hell didn’t try to make ANGELUS a good guy or blame Buffy for not being good enough for him.  They left that betrayal out there raw, and Buffy doing what she had to do to save the world, even though she knew her AngelWuvvie was back, was the best moment in the show.

Comment #81: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/09  at  07:50 PM

Ooookay, here we go.

Saturday Night Live Weekend Update: Tina Fey will always be my 2nd favorite mock-anchor, but Jimmy “Coattail-Riding Dead Weight” Fallon got on my nerves no end.  The segment improved exponentially once Pholer became co-host.

Mad TV: ANYTHING w/ Bobby Lee in it.  Will Sasso grated, but Lee really made me want to poke out my eyes & ears & chew my wrists open.  Come to think of it, the last time Mad TV was on speaking terms w/ anything remotely amusing was Campaign 2000.

Austin Powers 2:  Every time the Fat Bastard character showed up, the whole film smashed to a halt.  Why was he in it?

War Of The Worlds:  Someone I know on LiveJournal (“Quality Gal”) still wants to digitally remove Tom “Thumb” Cruise & replace him w/ Dennis Quaid.  She ought to be a casting director.

Adam Sandler:  Everything.  Anything.  Everywhere.  The Universe.  Human History.  I knew I hated him from the first time I saw him doing “Opera Man” in late ‘92 & it just got worse from there.  I find him & his “comedy” to be about as entertaining as getting an arrow through the neck & then discovering there’s a collections notice attached to it.

Comment #82: Smartpatrol  on  08/09  at  08:05 PM

Mine is “Groundhog Day” without him waking up and have the day end. By the end of the movie, he’s making the (very) best he can out of the life he has and that’s what we all do. But then he gets the magic ending and it kind of ruins that for me.

Metallia without Lars Ulrich’s ability to speak in public.

Mark, I think the attempts of trying to get River back on the show were sort of lower-profile type things. If someone inside the Alliance bureacracy/parliment gets an Operative to do something, it would draw attention from all the other important people. He was an escalation.

The magic addiction plotline would ahve played better, IMO, as Willow getting drunk with power. She’d probably even start doing things out of good, but she and Buffy clash over methods and priorities. Then Tara. And she goes all black-haired and it plays out as it does.

Comment #83: witless chum  on  08/10  at  01:50 AM

WitlessChum:
that’s what i said! POWER CORRUPTS is a *much* better spin than POWER GIVES A BUZZ. sheesh.

Zha:
i agree 1000% about the “rape” attempt - how freaking *stupid* was that? the whole mess with Spike and the “soul” and stuff felt false (until he jumped over to Angel, where it felt much more real) the fucked up thing is that, given Spike’s pre-vampiric history, i can *SEE* him wanting to be a Big SuperHero - but they played it *ALL* wrong. starting, i think, with that stupid, demeaning-to-all-involved (and somehow all about *DAWN*, WTF?), illogical “attempted rape”. in what universe is *SPIKE* stupid enough to attempt to rape *BUFFY* without drugging her senseless? (that sounds awful when i say it, but really - i think what the writers were going for was a “rape” that happens because “He Can’t Control Himself - It Was All Her Fault For Being Too Desirable”, and the fact that this full-on-feminist show went there actually makes me kind of sick…)

Caren:
see, when Riley was starting up, i thought we were going to be treated to a story-arc where a Man, a “powerful” man, an “Alpha Man” if you will, was going to been forced to learn that women are just as good, powerful, competent, strong, able, smart, etc, as men are.
i was crushed when it became apparant that the *real* storyline was actually “Buffy is too strong to ever find real, true, *human* love, because only Inhuman guys have any chance of being stronger than her, and we all know that a Strong Woman MUST have an even Stronger Man to control her”.
just…!

Comment #84: denelian  on  08/10  at  06:02 AM

Enjoy “Stealing People’s Mail,” which conjures up images of going out into the hills around California coastal cities and banging mailboxes.  But my fave on that record is “Let’s Lynch the Landlord.”  Oh, and “Funland at the Beach,” which I sang to my son as the ER doctors cut off his clothes after he was hit by a car in 2006 (and which he sang last week when we were actually at the beach).  Still ranks as a Hallmark moment.

Comment #85: Iam138  on  08/10  at  07:01 AM

Going up against both Amanda AND Caren is like crossing Buffy AND Willow. Well, I did watch the whole series in one long binge the first time through, and generally rewatched it one or a few times later in similar binges. All I’m saying is, in general I didn’t feel “this whole show has turned to crap” across any particular dividing line. At every point, even back in the first season and even in the last, or 4th, 5th, 6th, or 7th, there were times when it seemed things sucked and other times when there was once again another Crowning Moment of Awesome. I’ve been deterred from accumulating the series on DVD myself because buying the whole thing seems like the only way to go—and now I know I definitely can’t afford to do that right now.

Like it or lump it, BtVS is one continuous canon of a piece. And Whedon was right there, in eyeshot if not always on board, to nix for instance Noxon if he’d been of a mind to. I don’t know if she got a stern talking-to and Whedon popped in to “fix things,” or if he simply went with stuff he’d never have done himself but improv-riffed on them to make it all right, or if he totally approved of everything that great people who are great fans hate, all along. But the downs as well as ups of the series seem of one Whedonesque whole to me, and I feel people who discard the later seasons on the ground that he’d left the building are focusing too much on just one phase of an integrated process.

The thing stands together much more consistently than say Star Trek ever did, even when the latter was just the 3-season original series. (And there too—fans generally agreed “the third season sucked,” and I think one can statistically bear that out—but there were still great episodes there even as cancellation loomed, whereas some of the worst eps were in the earlier seasons and were often written by Gene Roddenberry himself. (As well as edits that threw monkey wrenches of suck into other people’s potentially good ones).

If Whedon, out of boredom, having said all he meant to say, or sheer distraction, had simply walked off to let lesser minds run Buffy into the ground, why was he so intimately involved in his “arty” eps “Hush”, “The Body,” and of course “Once More With Feeling?” If Marti Noxon’s inferiority turned gold into straw, why is she still so deeply involved at Mutant Enemy? The fault, if fault there be, lies as squarely at Joss Whedon’s door for the last seasons as any embarrassments from the first season, and credit for the overall solidity of the whole thing, which I think sustained itself right to and through the end, is due both to him and the ensemble of not just actors but his whole creative team, which he trusted before the fact and endorsed after it.

Insofar as Riley and his situation, or Spike’s reversion to his predatory ways, did suck, they did so just as Whedon himself is capable of doing. That’s all I’m saying. Man’s got issues. So do we all.

Comment #86: Mark Foxwell  on  08/10  at  01:52 PM

Metallia without Lars Ulrich’s ability to speak in public.

Metallica’s acting as hypocritical pawns for the music industry’s efforts to stifle p2p in an effort to maintain their moribund obsolete business model…..

Comment #87: exholt  on  08/10  at  02:05 PM

Siobhan:
SPOILER ALERT, TORCHWOOD:  CHILDREN OF THE EARTH

Would have been so much better had they not killed Ianto.

YES YES A MILLION ZILLION TIMES YES. I didn’t watch BtVS, but I understand there are correspondences between Ianto getting a bridge dropped on him and Tara’s death.

Relurking now…

Comment #88: Ab_Normal  on  08/10  at  02:19 PM

The Office (US version) without season 3.

Comment #89: Col Bat Guano  on  08/10  at  03:09 PM

Strong second to leaving “Viva” off Fresh Fruit for Rotting vegetables.

LOTR: The Legolas rail slide. Sad and unnecessary. You do not need to make well written characters “hip” to add appeal and are doomed to appearing dated and out of touch if you try.

Buffy: Willow the magic addict almost compromised my love for the program. As much as I get all the reasons for Dawn (including the cheeky self aware “jumping the shark” trope of a new, unmentioned character) I really hated her character and wanted her to die in as messy a fashion as possible.

The person who said Bill Hicks w/o the misogyny is right on. I have had an internal struggle with that for a long time.

This thread makes me want to go through my records and see how many albums I think of as “flawless” actually have one track that gets skipped every time.

Comment #90: HooksInMyHead  on  08/12  at  05:28 PM
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