And of course, they have absolutely nothing resembling evidence that anything like this occurred.

And of course they’d categorize the possibility of having been molested as an “underage gay affair.” Totally the same thing.

Part of me wonders if we’re at the point where there simply is no movement conservative moral compass any more. 

Why do you assume there ever was a “movement conservative moral compass”? I’m amazed the Republican base doesn’t run around with hockey masks and chainsaws…

I do like John Cole’s speculation that this particular meme is an indication that we’ve reached Peak Wingnut.

Ben, this story is what convinced Cole that we hadn’t reached Peak Wingnut, that it’s not even possible to hit Peak Wingnut. They can always get crazier…

Wait, so McCain supporters are arguing that past trauma may render a candidate unfit to be President?

Hell, I was just remembering the bumper stickers I’d see on wingnutmobiles back when Clinton was in office: “Where’s Lee Harvey Oswald now that we really need him?” Over a decade ago, Republicans were wildly in favor of assassination as a political tool—I think that was when I started to realize that the GOP had fully abandoned ethics and morality as quaint and outdated hindrances.

We should stop being surprised when Republicans hit gobstoppingly shocking lows—there’s literally no limit to how far they are willing to drop.

jfpbookworm, but this trauma involves potential Gay Cooties. If Obama supporters were this deranged, they’d be spreading rumors that McCain was raped by his Vietnamese captors.

True enough, mythago.  I was going to argue that we actually have evidence that McCain’s trauma has left him fucked up (see how his ethnic slur against Asians gets excused by his P.O.W. history), but I forgot that this is a crowd that tends to see gay cooties as fucked up and racism as perfectly fine.

“Republicans were wildly in favor of assassination as a political tool”

Based upon bumpersticker evidence, the best evidence there is!

Jesse - I don’t think that there is any evidence that Frank Davis and Brock Obama had had sexual contact at any time, however, Brock was in Hawaii between 1971 and 1979, when he was in contact with Davis - meaning that he wasn’t 10 years old for the entire time that he lived in Hawaii.  If he had a physical relationship with Davis when he was 17, would we really consider that pedophilia? 

I am addressing the notion that Obama was not 10 years old for 8 years only.  The rest I don’t really care about.

Ben, this story is what convinced Cole that we hadn’t reached Peak Wingnut, that it’s not even possible to hit Peak Wingnut. They can always get crazier…

You’re right about John Cole’s argument, Scott. 

However, in a sense I think he’s wrong.  They can always get crazier.  But you there can also be fewer and fewer of them. 

Rather than being scrapped, I think the idea of Peak Wingnut should be repurposed to describe that point at which the quantity (as opposed to the quality) of wingnutitude begins, slowly, to decrease.

John Cole was looking around for signs that the wingnuts were coming to their senses. I’m just hoping that there will, slowly but surely, be fewer of them….or at least that they’ll have less of an audience.

wingnut is perennial. the real question is when the hell will it go out of fashion, & back to the fringes?

Perhaps when the ruling elites (i.e., our corporate oligarchs and big media) finally decide to stop pandering to it.

And not just by expressing lame misgivings about Palin, as some in what passes for the conservative intelligentsia have been doing lately.

Even then, it might be too late. (I’m trending Godwin-wise here, I know, but such are the times we live in. )

Oh, so now Ericka at Red State is saying it was a joke.  It was satire.

I get it.  Not.

Brock Obama being, of course, the Venture Brothers other bodyguard.

Horace, my mother was raped.  By her father.

He started when she was fourteen or fifteen and didn’t stop until her late teens.

Are you saying that, since it continued on until she was seventeen, that it must have been consensual?

Because, if so, please shoot yourself in the face.  No, really, shoot yourself in the fucking face.

Or, as another example, I was in a relationship with a guy from fifteen to seventeen years of age, and he raped me.  Repeatedly.  However, I took a long time to break up with him because of things that I now understand are attributable to Stockholm Syndrome.  But of course I wanted to be with him and just enjoyed being abused; otherwise why would I have stayed with him until I was of age?

Block his ass already, will you people?  I have patience for trolls, and find it amusing to go after them, but when someone postulates that perhaps, since a relationship that definitely started as pedophilia continued on until an age where there’s a blurrier line about consensuality then it MUST have been consensual, they can just fuck off, kthxbai.  He has no idea what he’s talking about, and, what’s more, doesn’t care.

“Satire” is wingnut for “Oh fuck, I thought people would think this was funny and only my buddies would hear the dogwhistle…..uh….let’s say it was a funny so it doesn’t count.”

You’re just being silly.  I simply posited that a relationship entered into by a 17 year old with an adult is qualitatively different than one entered into by a 10 year old.  A relationship that never was, BTW.

“Horace, I understand that “they were actually saying something far more specific than what they actually said” is a new and exciting tool to use, but please use it responsibly.”

Of course, of course.  Thanks for the help, Jesse.

Brock Obama

Nice homophobic slur, ass.

“And Horace, I posited that the guy on the street with a knife to your throat just wants to see if your wallet is genuine leather.  Don’t let the fact that he’s taking your cash and credit cards get in the way of my airtight argument.”

Well, that’s the point, Jesse - you were purposefully implying that others really meant that Obama was 10 and no older when the non-event in question didn’t occur.  I suppose that is your right - to cast your opponents in the worst possible light - but the follow-up “nanny nanny boo boo” loses a great deal of its punch.

“Brock Obama

Nice homophobic slur, ass.”

How, exactly, do you arrive at this conclusion?  I really need to know how this is homophobic, you know, for my research.

YEaaaaahhhh, I gotta agree, Rumpole’s trollishness has reached the point of diminishing returns for the blog.

Honestly I’m not even sure what Horace is trying to say now.  He might’ve had a “physical relationship” with him at 17 which is more better than having it at 10 except it didn’t happen so you libs are nanny-nanny-boo-boo?

Look on the bright side - if they’re breaking out unsubstantiated stories about kiddie-fiddling, they must *really* be desperate. It would be nice if, pace those crowds shouting “traitor!”, McCain was questioned about this and forced to disavow his followers engaging in this bullshit.

Whatever happened to the bunny videos?  Bring back the bunny videos!

The only thing new here is that it’s pointed at a (Democratic, of course) presidential candidate. Over at Shake’s, it feels like they post every fucking day some article or another alleging that an adult ‘had sex’ with a child. Not rape. Not molested. ‘Had sex’ with.

I simply posited that a relationship entered into by a 17 year old with an adult is qualitatively different than one entered into by a 10 year old.

Which would be a valid point and stuff, except that the ONLY thing that started this rumor was Frank Davis being called a “pedophile.”  Stop pretending you don’t understand exactly what’s being said.

Seriously, I’m considering weaning my child so that I can drink more in the lead up to the election. It’s way past the point where I can handle this kind of nauseating wingnuttery sober.

Thank you, Nicole.

Horace, if you had a daughter, and there was a man who was a fatherly figure in her life, and you found out when she was seventeen that they had been having sex since she was, oh, sixteen - old enough to know what is going on but young enough that it is still profoundly fucked up, considering the power balance - would you just say, oh, well, that’s fine and dandy?

I think that the key word in that is actually relationship, because that implies that there was a consent involved, moreso than “pedophile.” 

A preteen or teenager has not been a participant in a sexual relationship; they have been molested and exploited.

My friends, I think we can all agree that anyone who’s taken it up the ass has forfieted the right to be president, no matter whether it was consensual or not!

Jesse - I don’t think that there is any evidence that Frank Davis and Brock Obama had had sexual contact at any time, however, Brock was in Hawaii between 1971 and 1979, when he was in contact with Davis - meaning that he wasn’t 10 years old for the entire time that he lived in Hawaii.

Oh, wait, I see what the problem is here.

Rumpy, we’re talking about a guy named Barack Obama, who’s running for president right now.  You seem to be talking about some other guy entirely with a similar name.  Have you confused the two of them and think that the Brock Obama you’re talking about is the same guy who’s running for president?

Maybe you should go back and re-read the story since you don’t seem to know which guy named Obama you’re talking about.  We’ll wait here while you do.

“Yes, when you talk about someone between the ages of 10 and 17 having a relationship with a “pedophile”, what you’re actually insinuating is that they had a relationship with that person at or beyond the age of consent.”

Perhaps you’re anaware, but uncle Frank was classed a “pedophile” for seducing other, younger prey than the hypothetical 17 year old Obama.  It would be wholly accurate to say that Marshall’s 20 year old partner had a relationship with a pedophile. 

P.S., before this draws to a close, can someone, anyone, explain how “Brock Obama” is a homophobic epithet?  And how “Rump-Hole” is not?

Perhaps you’re anaware, but uncle Frank was classed a “pedophile” for seducing other, younger prey than the hypothetical 17 year old Obama.

You’re the one trying to argue that a pedophile would ignore a 10-year-old until he was close to the age of consent.  Of course, you still seem to be talking about some guy named Brock Obama, who you seem to have confused with Barack Obama, so I’m not sure we can rely on your grasp of the details here.

Horace, “Rump-hole” is an obvious play on your name: “rump” is synonymous with “ass.”  You are being called an asshole.  Get it?  That’s a bad thing, because assholes produce nothing but shit.  Any other English vulgarisms you need explaining?

I like how you seem really insistent that everyone here understand that sex with a 17 year old is not the same as sex with a 10 year old.  Like really, really insistent.  It seems to be a matter of major importance to you that everyone gets that.  It’s kind of creepy, but if we agree that it’s not the same thing will you stfu about it already?

And how “Rump-Hole” is not?

A rump-hole is a thing in itself - a thing out of which nothing but shit comes.  That would be sufficient, as far as insults go.  Should we make something of the fact that your first thought upon thinking about rump-holes was about anal sex, and gay anal sex at that?

Oh, right, sure it was.  And for “Brock?”  Let’s see some more Barnam & Bailey style contortions.

Oh, right, sure it was.  And for “Brock?” Let’s see some more Barnam & Bailey style contortions.

Again, Rumpy, who is this “Brock” Obama you keep referring to?  Does Barack Obama have a brother or half-brother, or is this an unrelated person with the same last name?

Horace:

Jesse - I don’t think that there is any evidence that Frank Davis and Brock Obama had had sexual contact at any time, however, Brock was in Hawaii between 1971 and 1979, when he was in contact with Davis - meaning that he wasn’t 10 years old for the entire time that he lived in Hawaii.  If he had a physical relationship with Davis when he was 17, would we really consider that pedophilia?

So basically what you’re saying is that you don’t really think Frank Davis and Barack Obama ever had sexual contact, but you’re willing to suggest very strongly that they did if there’s even the smallest possibility that you might gain ideologically from spreading such a rumor.

Nice.

Oh, right, sure it was.  And for “Brock?” Let’s see some more Barnam & Bailey style contortions.

I will grant you the point that it’s tough to figure out a way to make “Brock” be a gay slur. Rather, it’s the sort of thing a dull-witted third-grader would come up with to make fun of a classmate with a “funny” name. But even you cannot be so obtuse as to not see how “rump-hole” equates to “asshole”, and even you cannot be so obsessed as to think that “asshole” is somehow a gay slur.

“So basically what you’re saying is that you don’t really think Frank Davis and Barack Obama ever had sexual contact, but you’re willing to suggest very strongly that they did if there’s even the smallest possibility that you might gain ideologically from spreading such a rumor.”

Hardly.  All I said was that Jesse was being particularly loose with his opponent’s words in order to create a strawman.  In fairness, they’re wrong for implying that Obama had a relationship of any physical sort with Davis without evidence.  I mean, at least Larry Sinclair is a witness, if a bad one who cannot be beleived.  Jesse is wrong for presuming that “gay affair” could be construed to mean an adult Davis with a 10 year old Obama, based on the extraneous fact that Obama arrived in Hawaii at 10 years, having resided there for 8 years.

Rumpy is going to be very embarrassed when he finally realizes that the reason he can’t find any information about Obama on the intertubes is that he keeps going to www.brockobama.com instead of www.barackobama.com.

Jesse is wrong for presuming that “gay affair” could be construed to mean an adult Davis with a 10 year old Obama, based on the extraneous fact that Obama arrived in Hawaii at 10 years, having resided there for 8 years.

Considering that Erickson used the phrase “underage, gay affair” to refer to the rumor, I have no idea why you think Jesse is wrong to mention that Erickson used the phrase.  Are you embarrassed that one of your allies would sink so low so you have to claim that the problem is that Jesse used Erickson’s phrase and not that Erickson used the phrase in the first place?

Its’ Brock OBama, or Barry O’Bama (in Southy) or Barry Soetero, I think.  I don’t know, man’s had so many names in one lifetime.

Why can’t you call him by his actual name?

“underage, gay affair”

I took the “underage” language to mean “not of majority age,” or <18,  and the “gay affair” to mean a terrific party and/or sexual relationship wherein Brock was a willing participant (hence “affair” and not “rape”), if under the legal age of consent.

Why can’t you call him by his actual name?

Because, as we’ve seen, even that is quite complicated.  I must use the version of his name that has been tuned and focus-group tested to appeal to the Left-wing base and moderates.  Like I said, the man has so many damn names.

Why can’t you call him by his actual name?

Because it pisses people off. Also because Horace is an asshole. But mostly because it pisses people off.

Are you trying to appeal to the left-wing base and moderates?

“Because it pisses people off. Also because Horace is an asshole. But mostly because it pisses people off.”

Greetings from McSame/Failin 08 and McChimpy’s place.

This was Moe Lane four and a half years ago: summarised his differences with the Catholic Church and finished:

Still, all this I could work around - I’m no different than a lot of American Catholics, from what I’ve seen - but it was impossible for me to ignore the pedophile scandals. It is a hard thing to know that the man who is offering you the Body and Blood of Christ may be a predator; and that if he was, his bishop - your bishop - almost certainly knows of it, but will not tell you; and that if an outrage occurs in your parish, the only real result would have been the priest’s transferral to a distant parish. Too hard, actually; I know that it is not the priest who sanctifies the Host - but that only theoretically helps. So I stopped going to Mass.

This is Moe Lane today:

You seem to be missing Erick’s point completely.
Which is odd, because he’s not exactly been shy about announcing his intent here: to wit, asserting that our opposite numbers have a rather remarkable, and quite handy, tendency to slip into hysterical blindness whenever convenient. As they’ll do here.
Rude of him? Sure. Then again, rudeness seems to work these days.

Dragons and abyss-gazing seem to be appropriate comments here…

Because, as we’ve seen, even that is quite complicated.

Poor, poor Rumpy.  You see, we’ve managed to confuse his tiny little brain by sometimes substituting rhyming words with McCain and Palin’s names to make puns, so in desperation he’s grasping for something, anything that kinda-sorta vaguely rhymes with Barack Obama so he can play the same game.  Perhaps he should have paid closer attention in third grade when his teacher explained puns so he could come up with an actual pun on Obama’s name and not just a random proper name that rhymes with “Barack.”

Either that, or Rumpy’s convinced a Pokemon character is running for president and keeps wondering why McCain isn’t countering Pikachu with Onix at the debates.  You make the call.

Why can’t you call him by his actual name?

Oh, I think Rumpy has answered that sufficiently—he doesn’t actually know Obama’s first name and can’t work Teh Google to figure it out, so he’s trying to sound it out phonetically.  Sad, really.

“You see, we’ve managed to confuse his tiny little brain by sometimes substituting rhyming words with McCain and Palin’s names to make puns, so in desperation he’s grasping for something, anything that kinda-sorta vaguely rhymes with Barack Obama”

There are several Obamas.  “Brock” is the measured, deliberate fellow who seems to be imitating black comics imitating lame white people.  “Brock” is sufficiently milquetoast, like “Stone Phillips.”

Barack likes to talk about sweet-patata-pye, over and over.  Hell if I know what “Barry” is up to.

I’m just not sure which one, or any of the others, is the real Barack.

There are several Obamas.  “Brock” is the measured, deliberate fellow who seems to be imitating black comics imitating lame white people.  “Brock” is sufficiently milquetoast, like “Stone Phillips.”

Barack likes to talk about sweet-patata-pye, over and over.  Hell if I know what “Barry” is up to.

Ah, see, mystery solved! 

Rumpy, you do realize that being convinced that someone has secret doubles who go out and substitute for that person in public is one of the classic signs of psychosis, right?  Time to have your doctor up the meds before you start insisting that Sarah Palin’s secret twin sister is the one saying all of those mean things about Obama.

a) She’s not really, actually saying mean things about Obama - you’re imagining them, and/or pretending that they’re beyond the pale in order to feign outrage.  Senator Obama did, in fact, have personal relationships with wholly unsavory characters that the American people find noxious.  You’re simply afraid that the electorate will know the true measure of the man before they vote in November.

b) The psychosis is his.  Barry/Barack/Sometimes-Hussein/Obama/Dunham/Soetero, with his several public personalities is teh creepy.

Oh there’s a compass, all right.  It points straight down.

Horace, claiming that your opponent has multiple personalities is not a road you want to go down. Unless you want us all to bring up the many faces of John McCain; the angry one and the angrier ones.

Senator Obama did, in fact, have personal relationships with wholly unsavory characters that the American people find noxious.

You mean like G. Gordon “Shoot federal agents in the head” Liddy?  Or a front group for Iran-Contra?  Or Charles Keating?

Maybe Obama should explain why someone who got $2,000,000 in “fees” from Fannie Mae is running his campaign, or why the guy heading up his transition team was a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein.

Oh, wait, sorry, those are all McCain associations that you seem to have no problem with at all.  Hey, what does it matter if McCain’s transition team leader was investigated as an agent of the Iraqi government?  It’s okay—he’s a Republican, so clearly representing a dictator was perfectly fine.

Obama has Karl Rove and Dennis Hastert’s good buddy Antoin Rezko (you did know about the Republican connections to Rezko, right?); a college professor who was on the same board as Obama, the publisher of the Chicago Tribune, and the head of the Field Museum funded by money from former Reagan ambassador Walter Annenberg; and something about Obama’s college roommate, which even you would have to admit is reaching just a bit.

Any other scary, scary associations you need to have explained to you?

I must use the version of his name that has been tuned and focus-group tested to appeal to the Left-wing base and moderates.  Like I said, the man has so many damn names.

The thing I love about right-wing nutcases is that Barack Obama has forced them out into the open with their outright rage at other Americans. You see, Horace, I, too, have an ethnic-sounding first name along with an Americanized nickname. I do, at times, go by my full name, in the same way that people called “Mike” may choose to go by “Michael” later in life. I think the last time anyone gave many any flak for my funny-sounding name was when I was 12, and in modern America, it’s considered declassé by most people I know to mock someone’s unusual or foreign-sounding name. However, the Barack Obama candidacy has given right-wingers a reason to finally tell us all how they really feel—and it turns out they’re a bunch of hateful assholes who are willing to act out publicly, just as we had all suspected.

You left out GOD DAMN AMERIKKKA!

So Horace, your real name is really Horace Rumpole right? It’s not a nom de blog or a name you choose to use for specific purposes or anything like that? Because everyone always uses exactly the same name all the time from the moment they get given it at birth? Yes?

Seriously mate you need to get out more.

You left out GOD DAMN AMERIKKKA!

I don’t know whether you hate America or not. I does seem that you hate the people in it, though. It’s just helpful that the Barack Obama candidacy has allow you and your cohort to bring that hate out into the open so that we know for sure what you’re all about.

I finally figured out who Rumpy reminds me of:  Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer.

“Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I’m just a caveman.  I fell on some ice and later got thawed out by some of your scientists.  Your world frightens and confuses me!  I don’t understand these things you call ‘nicknames.’  How did William Jefferson Clinton turn into Bill Clinton, a completely different person?  Who is this ‘Richard Cheney’ on the White House website, and what did he do with Dick Cheney, the vice president?”

I also love how pointing out McCain’s problematic associations means I hate America.  Either that, or Rumpy thinks we should play the Whose Preacher Is Crazier? game, which means I get to pull out the Rev. Hagee card, followed by Rev. Muthee card.

I’m sorry, Rumpy, but unless you can show that Biden has a crazy preacher, I’m pretty sure that 2 is a bigger number than 1.

Horace:

“So basically what you’re saying is that you don’t really think Frank Davis and Barack Obama ever had sexual contact, but you’re willing to suggest very strongly that they did if there’s even the smallest possibility that you might gain ideologically from spreading such a rumor.”

Hardly. All I said was that Jesse was being particularly loose with his opponent’s words in order to create a strawman.

It’s funny you should bring up the word “strawman,” because it’s pretty clear that you’d have to play rather fast and loose with Jesse’s words in order to reach the “conclusions” you’ve reached.

In fairness, they’re wrong for implying that Obama had a relationship of any physical sort with Davis without evidence. I mean, at least Larry Sinclair is a witness, if a bad one who cannot be beleived.

Thank you for admitting that you don’t really think Frank Davis and Barack Obama ever had sexual contact, but that you’re nevertheless willing to suggest very strongly that they did if there’s even the smallest possibility that you might gain ideologically from spreading such a rumor.

Jesse is wrong for presuming that “gay affair” could be construed to mean an adult Davis with a 10 year old Obama, based on the extraneous fact that Obama arrived in Hawaii at 10 years, having resided there for 8 years.

Heh. I can’t wait to see you try to quote the part of Jesse’s post in which he made any such claim.

Rather than Peak Wingnut, perhaps we should be looking forward to a Wingnut Singularity, after which, just as light cannot escape the gravity of a gravitic singularity,  wingnuts will be so crazy that their ravings will be imperceptible to non-wingnuts.

Sort of like the Objectivist Singularity that took place after Rand and Branden had their falling-out.