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Next entry: Why are they so scared? Previous entry: When you take two innocuous words and put them together: OMG THE CHILDREN!!!

And another thing

Right wingers are up in arms about this quote from Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Yes, the ruling about that surprised me. [Harris v. McRae — in 1980 the court upheld the Hyde Amendment, which forbids the use of Medicaid for abortions.] Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of. So that Roe was going to be then set up for Medicaid funding for abortion. Which some people felt would risk coercing women into having abortions when they didn’t really want them. But when the court decided McRae, the case came out the other way. And then I realized that my perception of it had been altogether wrong.

The wingnutteria is trying to claim that Ginsburg was actually trying to advocate for this, or in Limbaugh’s case, that this is rock solid proof that feminists invented abortion because they are Nazis and that even though Sanger was pro-abortion (actually, she pushed for birth control in part because the heavy use of abortion to control fertility bothered her) because she was trying to wipe out black people (thoroughly discredited claim based on a misreading of history), he’s actually willing to imply now that Ginsburg and Sotomayor in cahoots to use abortion to wipe out white men.  No, I’m not kidding.


Functionally, what this misreading of Ginsburg’s statements and the general history of Margaret Sanger’s life does is gives incurious, hostile, stupid people an opportunity to lash out and punish people who aren’t willfully ignorant.  Acknowledging a reality-based understanding of history doesn’t mean that Ginsburg is a eugenicist.  I’d accuse Limbaugh and Goldberg of covering up how many of the people who supported abortion and birth control for racist reasons were prominent Republicans, if I didn’t think that their anger that Ginsburg actually knows what she’s talking about is what makes them blind with the fury of the terminally stupid.

Truth told, the history of birth control in the 20th century is a confusing one and hard to break into easy-to-read partisan packages.  Eugenics was a popular theory throughout the early part of the 20th century, until the Nazis put an end to that, and while Sanger was motivated primarily by her socialism and her feminism, she wasn’t above asking people with less than perfect motivations, such as the KKK, for support.  But it’s rich for modern people to act like this sort of bargain with the devil is impossible to understand, since future people will look at the fact that Pat Buchanan was allowed on MSNBC in the same dim light we use when looking at the social esteem that the KKK had in the 20s.  I’m not making excuses, but pointing out that Sanger’s footsie-playing with racist elements was about a short-sighted pragmatism instead of evil, the kind that we forgive in folks like Rachel Maddow.  In the 60s and 70s, you have the same problem.  The actual proponents of birth control and abortion rights were motivated by social justice, but more than a few racist legislators promoted birth control and abortion for seedy reasons.  Does this mean that women’s human rights should be revoked?  Or that perhaps the issue of complicity is more unnerving and complicated than most of us would like to admit?

Of course, you can just bury your head in the sand, have an atrociously bad understanding of history, and wave your hands around a lot trying to argue that all appearances to the contrary, the real bad guys are the ones who aren’t actually being the bad guys, due to LOOK OVER THERE LIBERAL FASCISM!

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 07:26 PM • (29) Comments

Funny how many of these same “detractors” were the loudest voices for forced NORPLANT for young urban black women.

Of course this entire piece of bullshit has to do with a failure - or rather a complete denial - of context in the quest for spin.

Comment #1: Ms Kate  on  07/14  at  07:59 PM

Oh please Amanda, tell me that you are not defending that racist piece of garbage who said :“We do not want word to get out that we want to exterminate the Negro population”

Comment #2: Casp  on  07/14  at  08:08 PM

From http://womenshistory.about.com/od/quotes/a/margaret_sanger_2.htm

• A quote taken out of context: “We do not want word to get out that we want to exterminate the Negro population.” (In the context, it’s apparent that she didn’t want such word to get out because such a characterization of her work was common—and untrue. Then as now.)

Comment #3: Fatman  on  07/14  at  08:12 PM

Wait.  LIMBAUGH is trying to claim that he’s advocating FOR black people?  That’s too funny.

Let’s not forget our recently rediscovered Nixon quote, you know how he didn’t really like abortion but he could see when one was necessary, such as in rape or the case of a black and white having a child together.

Abortion to limit minorities is a conservative wet dream.  It’s projection that lets Limbaugh ramble on about what PP’s “real” purpose was.

Comment #4: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  07/14  at  08:14 PM

No, of course I’m not defending a racist piece of garbage who said that.

Though I think you’re trying to refer to Margaret Sanger, who didn’t write what you’re pretending she wrote.  There’s something called context that’s a fascinating thing you should learn about, because it’s important to avoiding being an intellectually dishonest asshole.

The minister’s work is also important, and also he should be trained, perhaps by the Federation, as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs.

It’s part of a larger letter where she emphasizes the importance of hiring black clinic workers within their own community.  Her point was simple: there were false rumors of genocide, and it was important to react to misinformation with the truth.

Ironic, isn’t it, that anti-choicers respond to that comment about the importance of the truth by taking it out of context to lie?

Margaret Sanger was indeed a racist.  But would she be if she lived now?  I doubt it. I think the party of racism—-the Republican party—-wouldn’t sit right with her, being a socialist, a woman’s rights advocate, and an anti-poverty advocate. I highly recommend reading that link to gain a fuller and more intellectually honest understanding of the relationship between birth control advocates and the civil rights movement, particularly in light of the fact that black women also do and should have the right to control their own reproductive destinies.

Anti-choicers use the screwed up reality of history to distract from the present reality, which is that it is the anti-choice movement that has ties to racist theories about white supremacy, particularly those who think reproductive rights should be restricted so they can force more white women to have babies (while of course still defending gross violations of the rights of non-white women who have the nerve to have babies.)

Comment #5: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/14  at  08:28 PM

I think Ginsburg may actually have been saying something interesting, namely that misogyny and class hatred trumped eliminationist racism. Which is pretty remarkable, in its own way, such a relatively short time after Loving v. Virginia and the Civil Rights Act and the dissolution of paramilitary death squads in a large chunk of the country.

Comment #6: paul  on  07/14  at  08:55 PM

“Of course, you can just bury your head in the sand, have an atrociously bad understanding of history, and wave your hands around a lot trying to argue that all appearances to the contrary, the real bad guys are the ones who aren’t actually being the bad guys, due to LOOK OVER THERE LIBERAL FASCISM!”

It’s interesting that an idiot like Goldberg felt the need to invent a ridiculous phrase like “Liberal Fascism” to undermine popular understanding of Fascism as a very real and currently thriving component of the Right (or Reichwing as I like to call it.)

History is filled with important figures who were highly compromised and tragically flawed yet advocated important ideas and accomplished critical tasks.

A great example: Abraham Lincoln wanted an African homeland (such as Liberia) setup for American Blacks because he (and many others) didn’t believe separate races could live together harmoniously.  He also readily admitted that as long as the Union was preserved, he didn’t care if the slaves were freed or not.

Do those things destroy Lincoln as an important figure in American History?  Do those things prevent Lincoln from generally being considered the greatest American President?

It’s about time the Wingnuts get called out on their bullshit.  Sniping from the sidelines about the small specs of sawdust in some liberal figure’s eyes while pretending you don’t see the giant redwoods in your own is not just the height of hypocrisy, it’s ultimately self-defeating…

Comment #7: MikeEss  on  07/14  at  09:14 PM

As soon as I read that interview I knew this quote was going to blow up in her face. Liberals should know by now that they can’t try to characterize the right’s thinking while being interviewed, because it is invariably quoted by some right-wing stenographer as if it were the original thoughts of the interviewee. And even in context, it is hard to tell exactly what she’s saying. Frankly, I’m just surprised it took Rush & Co. so long to latch onto it.

Ginsburg said a lot of very intelligent things in that interview, but they’re all going to be overshadowed by this fake “gotcha!” It’s pathetic but this is the kind of nonsensical controversy that the media love.

Comment #8: sophronia  on  07/14  at  09:25 PM

Well, and it’s an attempt to shut down intelligent discourse.  No one intelligent thinks, for instance, that Sanger’s racism—-or Thomas Jefferson’s for that matter—-is a legitimate argument for dismantling the good they’ve done in the world.  That’s argument from, or in this case against, authority.  Democracy and birth control aren’t right because of the character of Sanger or Jefferson, both of whom had racist beliefs.  Democracy and birth control are right because they’re fair.

Comment #9: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/14  at  09:36 PM

Democracy and birth control aren’t right because of the character of Sanger or Jefferson, both of whom had racist beliefs.  Democracy and birth control are right because they’re fair.

this. thisthisthis.

Comment #10: Rebecca  on  07/14  at  11:00 PM

Conservatives don’t understand that an argument from authority isn’t a convincing argument for the rest of us.  Everything they do is because some imaginary or idealized father figure said so.  They just assume everyone else works the same way.

Comment #11: semi_factual  on  07/14  at  11:07 PM

This is almost as nauseating as their constant appropriation of Dred Scott as an example of “another” immoral Supreme Court decision. These people are the political and intellectual (if not actual) heirs of those who fought to keep slavery, and it’s just infuriating to hear them pretend to give a rat’s ass about black people.

Comment #12: Bitter Scribe  on  07/14  at  11:25 PM

even in context, it is hard to tell exactly what she’s saying.

She’s saying that before the decision, she had believed that there was a consensus that federal funding could be used to pay for abortion services because both pro-choicers and anti-overpopulation-ers would have backed it.  But, she says, she was wrong, and concerns about “overpopulation” didn’t sway the decision the way she had anticipated.

It’s a “common ground” kind of observation.  It’s kind of analogous to the coalitions that form on immigration or trade, where the pro-business right detaches from the nativist right, or on environmental issues, where the labor left detaches from the hippie left.  She expected a cross-ideological coalition to form in favor of abortion for poor women, but it didn’t happen.

And IIRC the people who were the noisiest about so-called “overpopulation” in the 1970s were not lefties.

Comment #13: FlipYrWhig  on  07/15  at  02:36 AM

John Stuart Mill was wrong, and far too generous.  They really are profoundly stupid.

Comment #14: DrDick  on  07/15  at  03:06 AM

She’s basically saying misogyny trumps racism.

Instead of a cross-faction agreement and having Medicaid pay for abortions for

populations that we don’t want to have too many of

which hurts everyone, since now nobody on Medicaid can have this particular medical procedure paid for by their only form of medical insurance, they decided to go whole-hog misogyny.  It was more important to keep all women pregnant, even the bad ones, because they need to be punished for being sexy, female, and/or poor than it was to bring down the numbers of the “wrong population.”

They hate us worse than blacks, basically.  Isn’t it nice to have the list start to form?  I feel much better knowing exactly where I am on the Hate-o-meter.

Comment #15: speedbudget  on  07/15  at  08:29 AM

Well, shit.  I now know why the tiny type happens after a blockquote.

Comment #16: speedbudget  on  07/15  at  08:29 AM

I’m not sure she’s saying misogyny trumps racism, or playing into the hands of the Oppression Olympics at all.  I think it’s that she was surprised to what extent “piss off the liberals and smash the poor” are the main motivators with conservatives, particularly after Nixon.

This is why the horrible Hyde Amendment will never be overturned, by the way.  Even though the pro-choice movement’s dropping of the Hyde Amendment reversal as a priority was what inspired the reproductive justice movement—-which forefronts the needs of poor and non-white women in order to get people thinking about the issue as a social justice issue in the broader sense, and was started by a black caucus at a feminist conference—-the problem is that if liberals bring up any issue that can be injected with racial overtones, Republicans will start screaming “racism!”  Which they define as “believing that white people are not better than everyone else”.  Democrats then flip their shit, because it’s hard to defend against this accusation, because your average dumbfuck swing voter is made very uncomfortable by discussing the role of race in society, and eager to accept the theory that the only solution to avoiding discomfort is never to question white supremacy and social injustice. 

Natch, there’s a thick layer of bullshit over the whole thing anyway.  While black people are more likely to live in poverty than white people—-and therefore require the services of Medicaid—-that hardly means that no white people need those services, and I do believe white people are still the majority of recipients of Medicaid.  So Republicans are using the word “racist” in order to hoodwink the public into thinking that liberals are giving non-white people more services and benefits than white people because they are anti-white, but in reality, a whole lot of white women would benefit from having abortion coverage through Medicaid.

Comment #17: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/15  at  09:29 AM

He also readily admitted that as long as the Union was preserved, he didn’t care if the slaves were freed or not.

Uh, no, that’s not what he said.  He said that while he personally wanted abolition, his sworn duty as president was to put saving the Union first.  You could look it up . . .

Comment #18: rea  on  07/15  at  09:31 AM

I think the party of racism—-the Republican party—-wouldn’t sit right with her, being a socialist, a woman’s rights advocate, and an anti-poverty advocate.

You need to add the word current.  “I think the current party of racism….”  Until the southern split, the Democtrats were the party of racism, hence their long history in Texas prior to the 60s.

To avoid the tiny type, put the </blockquote> on a line by itself.

Comment #19: helen w. h.  on  07/15  at  09:37 AM

he’s actually willing to imply now that Ginsburg and Sotomayor in cahoots to use abortion to wipe out white men.

Yeah, Limbaugh has an existential crisis every time that someone doesn’t pretend that they just couldn’t live without him.  He knows he’s worthless, and feels like no one would want him around unless he convinces everyone that it’s necessary for some reason.  He’s probably right.  Unfortunately, he wrongly extends this thought to all white men.  I guess he thinks they’re all as bad as he is and logically we would want to get rid of them all if that were true.  Limbaugh makes everything about Limbaugh.

Comment #20: bananacat  on  07/15  at  09:40 AM

Amanda Marcotte wrote:

Democracy and birth control aren’t right…. [S]mash the poor

AHA!  Caught you!  Amanda finally admits her real agenda.  Destroy democracy, end birth control, and start a class war with the poor.

I do believe… in… giving non-white people more services and benefits than white people

OMFG Amanda is a self-loathing reverse racist too!

Comment #21: ummeli  on  07/15  at  10:11 AM

Point taken, helen.  And that’s one of the other complications—-the partisan split on the rightness of racism only came after the CRA of 1964.  Prior to then, it wasn’t a partisan issue and racism defenders were in both parties.  Republicans were often even stalwart anti-racism legislators.  And realizing that, I think, can clarify the historical reality of the fight for birth control and abortion.  No one party owned the issue initially.  A lot of Republicans supported it, because they didn’t see it as conflicting with their main goal of protecting business interests over the people.  A lot of Democrats were from very religious districts, particularly Catholic, and were against it.  It was barely coming onto the horizon during the Kennedy administration, but there were concerns. 

Just as racism became a partisan issue after 1964, birth control only because a partisan issue in the mid-70s.  In part,  it was because a lot of forward thinking religious right leaders realized that segregation was going to wane as an issue to get butts in pew, money in collection plates, and votes for Republicans.  Advocating for segregation openly was getting harder to do.  And they saw advocating against women’s rights and sexual liberation as something that would pay out long into the future, and they were right.  Which isn’t to say that racism went away as a Republican issue—-I still think it’s a primary motivator, probably more so than sexism in a lot of ways—-just that it’s easier to use blatantly sexist arguments, and that’s been a big help to Republicans.

Comment #22: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/15  at  10:22 AM

I don’t see how any honest person can read the Ginsburg quote as a statement of what Ginsburg herself believes.

Comment #23: Laurie  on  07/15  at  10:33 AM

Huh. I just had this discussion with someone who wanted to claim the civil rights movement while hating on gay people—because, in the magical version of history they were subscribing to, the civil rights and gay liberation movements came from opposite ends of the political spectrum.

It really is weird to see bits of history wedged into a particular political view, as though every political argument is really the same one, and that you only have to understand modern conservative thought to put all of world history into perspective. It’s all very Conservapedia.

Comment #24: grendelkhan  on  07/15  at  10:49 AM

I think it’s that she was surprised to what extent “piss off the liberals and smash the poor” are the main motivators with conservatives, particularly after Nixon

Hell yes.  It is odd to see that many of the same folks who favored sterilization of certain populations, criminalizing interracial sex and so on turned around and wanted to restrict abortion.  The tapes of Nixon favoring abortion in cases of rape or black/white sex are a pretty clear indicator of this.  These are not folks who were vigorous defenders of human rights, or hell of the personhood of some populations.  I was glad she also highlighted the very odd sexist reversal here.  So long as abortion was an “out” on pregnancy, employers did not have to budge on workplace policies regarding families.  If women didn’t want to be penalized for pregnancy in the workplace, they could always abort.  She highlights the rather surprising case that abortions were not only being provided but encouraged on a military base with taxpayer money.

Comment #25: pennylane  on  07/15  at  12:23 PM

History to a dittohead is what Rushbo said yesterday.  Truth is what he said today.  They maybe 180° apart but it doesn’t matter.  It’s all very Orwellian, no?

Comment #26: Magis  on  07/15  at  12:57 PM

I just have to laugh when I hear that crap.

It’s akin to saying “But but Im against it because I wouldn’t have been born!”
No , you probably would have, considering that your mother CHOSE TO HAVE YOU but if another sperm made it to the egg before yours, you would have been different, if your mother while pregnant with you, got into a car wreck and lost the fetus, you wouldn’t have made it either.

Looking at Limbaugh you have to wonder if the guy doesn’t have a crisis everytime he looks in the mirror, then goes and rolls about on some money for a while until he feels better.

It’s about their own inseurities and much as it is about controlling teh wimminz.
The conservative freak out about a *gasp* woman getting into the Court is hilarious - and predictable.

Comment #27: Danica Lefse Queen  on  07/15  at  05:02 PM

Yes, more white women than hispanic or non-white women would benefit from expanding public health coverage.

Far be it for Republicans to accept that fact.  Heck, there’s probably a large number in historically black communities that forget that as well, since no one talks about it because Republicans don’t want to.

Comment #28: Crissa  on  07/15  at  07:35 PM

Some guy on Twitter repeatedly used this meme in his defense as he argued first that Hitler was a liberal, then that Hitler wasn’t a white supremacist, then that Sanger and/or Ginsberg are liberal white supremacists and so Hitler must have been a liberal (but not a white supremacist).  All the while telling me that I didn’t know my history and that I hadn’t read the full interview with Ruth Bader Ginsberg (when in fact I had read it, and was moved by it, because Ginsberg is a personal hero of mine—and I’m somewhat of a history nerd, although I admit my education is lacking seeing as I’m only a freshman in college).

Yeesh… it was a very long argument, but I managed to end it by saying a polite goodnight to both of them, which I think earns me some kind of Internet points, don’t you?

Comment #29: Meghan Elaine  on  07/18  at  07:37 AM
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