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And that’s why they invented the word ‘systemic’

Health CareRace

From litbrit, here’s the softer, more liberal version of the “there is no such thing as racism anymore shuddup” whining: admit that there’s still racism, deny that it’s a legitimate problem.  litbrit handles it well, but I want to address a very specific thing I see cropping up over and over again in people are being defensive about their objections to health care reform.  It’s the phrase, “Not everyone who disagrees with the President is racist.”  This, of course, is a classic strawman argument.  And it’s a particularly nasty one, too, because it shifts the discussion away from the important policy disputes and towards a single individual, and to what’s in people’s hearts, which they can always conveniently lie about, or at least be in denial about.  But let it be said that the people who are most open about characterizing this downward spiral of nastiness in the opposition to racism are also more likely to be genuine liberals, and therefore we happily and repeatedly criticize the President for his centrist ways.  It’s patently absurd to think that anyone is suggesting that criticizing Obama automatically equals racism.

And I will say this: Even if we had a white President pushing for health care reform, I’d still suggest that racism is a major motivator when thousands of older white people run screaming to town halls to protest expanding health care coverage to young people, especially when you realize that 40% of people under 25 are not white, and 50% of people under the age of 5 are not white.  “Youth” is quickly overtaking “urban” as a demographic euphemism to describe people of color, and it’s just as silly and inadequate.  I would suggest that white people waving Confederate flags, and holding up signs indicating that they think health reform is a giveaway to “illegals” would be racist no matter what color the President is.

This isn’t about Obama the person.  This is about pointing out that this kind of thinking is delusional:

Racism is still everywhere.

But it’s not as important as it used to be.

I’ve got a buttload of statistics that says otherwise.  Did you know, for instance, that schools are becoming more segregated, not less?  Schools are more segregated now than in 1970!  And did you know that the rates of the uninsured aren’t as colorblind as would be convenient for those saying, “There’s no racism here, move along”?  Here’s a handy chart!

Fancy that.  Looks like white people are far more likely to have insurance than anyone else, by a long shot.  I suspect that while good liberals may not think about this, conservatives obsessed with “welfare queens”, “thugs”, “illegals”, and ACORN might be a little more likely to grasp the racial disparities in health care access, and they obviously prefer to keep it that way.  Obama’s race isn’t why the town hall protesters have got it in their head that there’s only so much health care to go around, and so they need to hoard it from racial minorities.  Indeed, I don’t particularly think that conservatives care if middle-class black and Hispanic people get into the employer-provided health care system.  But their objections to covering more people are racially tinged.  We grasp that it’s racist when someone says they don’t hate group X, because they know a few exceptions to the rule, but that most of group X is (fill in a vicious stereotype).  That’s the basic argument being wielded against health care reform here.

That doesn’t mean I think that Obama’s race has nothing to do with this.  For the more paranoid elements of the right wing, his race looms large.  They see him as a vigilante out to get white people, ACORN as his foot soldiers, and health care reform as an excuse to steal their money and give it away to black people and immigrants from Spanish-speaking countries.  Obama’s race gives them more reason to get hysterical and paranoid.  But it’s an accelerant, not the primary cause.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 02:23 PM • (43) Comments

Well-framed, Amanda.  It’s not (only) that Obama is black, it’s also that opponents fear that the new policy’s benefits would flow to black and Hispanic people.  (Which is how they demagogued “welfare” so successfully in the 1980s and ‘90s.)  So if a white politician had proposed the same policies, people could still oppose them in a racist manner.  And, sadly, in that case no one in the media would be asking if opposition were based on racism.

Comment #1: FlipYrWhig  on  09/27  at  03:28 PM

I’ve also noticed that certain white people will admit that there is racism and that it is a problem, but, when presented with any specific examples, will vehemently deny that they’re racism-based (there were people who said, re: the Cracker Barrel incident, that maybe it’s not as simple as a white man beating up a black mother and calling her nigger, there’s two sides to every story. These people probably deny the existence of racism, but it’s a similar type of thing).

It’s easier to accept racism as some nebulous concept that exists in theory than as something that actually affects you.

Comment #2: Lenina  on  09/27  at  04:15 PM

In my race and ethnicity class, I have a lecture segment on ethnic and racial stratification where I present the government statistics on a variety of measures of well being and equality in the US along with commentary.  The students are stunned by the end of the week.  It does make denial difficult (though hardcore conservatives are always up to the challenge).

Comment #3: DrDick  on  09/27  at  04:29 PM

And this is what benefiting from oppression is all about. I’m a nice guy. I don’t underpay the gardener or the nanny, and I’m always polite to the grocery and fast-food clerks. How could you possibly say I’m a racist? I just don’t want my hard-earned money taken away to subsidize people who don’t deserve it. And you just know they have too many kids and overload the school system and the emergency rooms.

Oh, a way larger percentage of those people happen to be black or hispanic than you’d think, so my actions have a clearly foreseeable race-based disparate impact? Well, that’s not my problem, is it? Because I’m not a racist, I just benefit from hundreds of years of racism and from millions of people like me—whom I must admit I look down on just a bit, even if I understand where they’re coming from—being racist on my behalf.

Comment #4: paul  on  09/27  at  04:35 PM

paul

countries with socialized obammunismcare spend less per capita on healthcare

government run healthcare actually involves FEWER of your tax dollars

why do you love paying taxes so god damn much paul

Comment #5: anonlololol  on  09/27  at  05:05 PM

oh god damn I am an idiot, sorry ):

Comment #6: anonlololol  on  09/27  at  05:07 PM

really? 50% of under-5s are non-white? I’m not being ironic here, that’s genuinely impressing me and I don’t doubt it.

Because it potentially explains so much. My feeling about the strong affect shown this summer by aging white boomers against health care reform was less that it was racist and more that it was part of a general disdain for all who come after them. And that their attitude toward the president had as much to do with his relative youth (Boomers have a hard time taking anyone under 50 seriously, or even as real adults, in my experience) as with his race.

But here’s a nice “both/and”-indicative spot of data. Race and youth are entwined, perhaps inseparable objects of hatred by aging white boomers.

Would explain their despicable declining support for public education, too.

(sidetrack: some—perhaps most—of the more clownish teabaggers on parade this summer I bet were serious hippies back in the day, whose “protest” took the form of doofy moves like chanting OM a lot and trying to levitate the pentagon; it’s telling, for instance, that Arlo Guthrie—and his dad is whirling in his grave over it, no doubt—recently expressed sympathy and qualified support for Sarah Palin!)

Comment #7: wapsie  on  09/27  at  05:31 PM

And I will say this: Even if we had a white President pushing for health care reform, I’d still suggest that racism is a major motivator when thousands of older white people run screaming to town halls to protest expanding health care coverage to young people, especially when you realize that 40% of people under 25 are not white, and 50% of people under the age of 5 are not white.  “Youth” is quickly overtaking “urban” as a demographic euphemism to describe people of color, and it’s just as silly and inadequate.  I would suggest that white people waving Confederate flags, and holding up signs indicating that they think health reform is a giveaway to “illegals” would be racist no matter what color the President is.

That’s the missing piece of the racism debate in which America is presently engaged.

So many people want to make the racism debate a completely all-or-nothing issue… that someone is either a full-blown Klan-hood wearing unrepentant racist, or they are completely not racist.

There’s a ton of gray that’s being missed… the question isn’t generally as simple as whether or not you are a racist, but just how much of a racist you are.

I know a decent number of conservatives (and a few liberals) who don’t personally buy into the most egregious racist tropes against President Obama the man, and most will even admit that those tropes are patently racist and offensive.  Many of them see Obama as a very intelligent, <Biden>articulate</Biden>, and thoughtful man with a ton of charisma and natural leadership talent, even people who vehemently disagree with him from the Right.  And they aren’t being disingenuous - they genuinely acknowledge his brightness and that he is fully qualified to serve as president.  For these people, Obama’s race truly isn’t a problem for them - in regards to Obama the man specifically.

And thus, they have tricked themselves into thinking that because they don’t view Obama through the lens of the worst stereotypes against African-Americans, that therefore they cannot possibly be racist.

The problem for these folks is that the only African-Americans they don’t hold racist views towards personally are exceptionally gifted, extremely intelligent African-Americans.  Obama is an exceptional human being, not just an exceptional African-American - he’s a 99th percentile person.  The folks who have the toughest time seeing their own racism are the ones who think that because they recognize Obama’s exceptionalism, that therefore they can’t possibly be racist.  Many of these folks have “black friends” that they love to tell you about the moment their self-assessment of their own racist nature is challenged.  And they may indeed have a few friends who are black, likely middle to upper-middle class college educated African-Americans.

But the second you add lower socioeconomic status into consideration, everything changes, and the racist tropes come out… see, it’s OK to have black friends, so long as they are “the right kind” of black friends.  It’s why they love relatively successful people like Michael Steele, and they will happily wear the jerseys of their favorite black athletes at a ballgame (unless that black athlete gets accused of something unseemly, in which case the black athlete becomes a “ghetto thug”).

These may be the worst kinds of racists… for many of them, they may genuinely be unaware of their racist views, and thus will continue in their ways without the least bit of guilt or shame or self-awareness.

At least with the asshole Klan sympathizing unrepentant racist who throws the word “nigger” out with absolute impunity, that person usually does not deny their own racism, even if they create all kinds of nonsense excuses to justify the attitude.

I sometimes peep into the message boards on my local newspaper’s website, and some of the racist garbage that gets spewed around over there is so over the top it’s nauseating.  There was a well-liked black poster on the forum who generally paid the racist clowns no mind.  He never got steamed, never replied to their nonsense, and just generally ignored the obvious racists.  I once asked him via PM how he managed to keep his composure towards those folks, and his response was simple: “I’m not worried about the racist clowns who wear their hoods and sheets out in the open, I’m worried about the ones who hide them in the closet and don’t think they own them.”

The racism that is poisoning the political discourse in America isn’t the over-the-top pictures of monkeys and references to Kenya in regards to Obama… it’s the subtle condescending attitudes by seemingly reasonable people towards inner-city people who happen to be black and poor that is poisoning the well.  Most in the MSM will call out the most blatant racist offenses… it’s the less blatant ones that they fail to address that are keeping racism alive and well in “post-racial” America.

Comment #8: DTG in STL  on  09/27  at  05:40 PM

Amanda,

Forgive the blog whoring and self-quoting, but I addressed this theme in a David Brooks column the other day, and thought Brooks had one of the great “tells” of all time when denying the animating role of racisim in the debate:

“And so Brooks argued in his column the other day that the teabaggers are not motivated in any way by racism, but rather by the fear that they, the productive workers of society, will have that which they earned taken from them by elitist liberals and redistributed to the undeserving idle.  In Brooks’s own wonderful words “[m]oney should not be redistributed to those who do not work, and it should not be sucked off by condescending, manipulative elites.”**  This is, of course, a classic racist trope because the people “who do not work” are always, and I mean always, dusky of hue.  It’s the welfare queen argument of Ronald Reagan and no one for a minute had any question about the color of the welfare queen.” 

“The irony is that a huge number of the teabaggers were clearly retirees over the age of 65—the ultimate welfare recipients, non-workers to whom wealth is redistributed every month in the form of Social Security checks and Medicare benefits.  Few object to this transfer of wealth though because the recipients by and large prove their worth by the whiteness of both their hair and skin.  (To be clear, I am very much in favor of both programs—but then again, I am pretty much a socialist.)  Brooks stakes a position of complete ignorance with respect to the racist history behind the sentence above quoted.”

http://www.cogitamusblog.com/2009/09/more-bullsht-from-david-brooks.html

And of course the sign carrying woman you picture is no doubt benefitting from both the socialized medicine of Medicare and Social Security, the ultimate socialist program.  She just doesn’t want to share it with the Freeto Bandito evidently.

Comment #9: Sir Charles  on  09/27  at  05:44 PM

Yep, in 2006, 49% of children under 5 were not white.  That percentage grows every year.  By 2042, it’s projected that there will not be a single racial group that has 51% of the population.  White people are going to be a minority, too.  Or, the better way to put that is that we won’t have a majority/minority situation.  We really will be a melting pot.

This is largely a positive trend, in my view.  The greater racial diversity on a national scale will pull the country leftward, it seems, and certainly it will make Americans less provincial.  White people are far more likely, according to this book I’m reading by Rich Benjamin, to consider themselves “citizens of the world” than other people, especially Latinos.  Already you’re seeing positive influences.  Last time I went to my bank, they had a big sign about a program for account holders to send money to families in foreign nations on a regular basis for a discounted fee.  It’s good for the people sending back the remittances, and it’s good for U.S. citizens to see stuff like that and regularly confront the fact that we’re part of a larger world. 

But of course, conservatives don’t see it that way.  In the same book, Benjamin records John Gibson on Fox News greeting the above WaPo story with a full-blown racial panic meltdown, where he begged white women to have more babies.

The big downside to all this is that many, many white people cannot stand what’s happening, and so white flight is exacerbating the problem of suburban sprawl, as white conservative types run farther and farther out in the country to escape racial diversity.  The worst example by far is Detroit, but it’s happening in other places.  The new suburban trend, which tries to make suburbs denser, more walkable, and friendlier, could offset some of the consequences, but they can only do so much.  We’re still facing a return to levels of segregation that they couldn’t have even imagined in the 50s.

Comment #10: Amanda Marcotte  on  09/27  at  05:49 PM

Because it potentially explains so much. My feeling about the strong affect shown this summer by aging white boomers against health care reform was less that it was racist and more that it was part of a general disdain for all who come after them. And that their attitude toward the president had as much to do with his relative youth (Boomers have a hard time taking anyone under 50 seriously, or even as real adults, in my experience) as with his race.

Your criticizing the wrong generation.

White Boomers were pretty split in how they voted the last election, it’s the generation above them that is the most polarized to the Right.  The Boomers certainly lean more conservative than the youngest adults out there, but they aren’t uniformly anti-Obama or anti-healthcare reform by a longshot.

That you saw mostly middle-aged white people protesting at the town halls doesn’t mean that ALL or even most middle-aged white people are on their side…. because most middle-aged white people didn’t protest at any town halls.  Though seeing all middle-aged white people through that lens is a less culturally destructive meme, the belief that all white Boomers are racist teabagging devils is as absurd as looking at video of the 1992 LA riots and presuming that all inner-city young black people are prone to violence because some young black people in South Central torched some stores and physically assaulted people.

Last month, we saw what we were told was a “ton” of town hall protests by the MSM.  Problem is… what what we saw was hardly representative of the behavior of most middle-aged white people or most Congressional town hall meetings.

What we really saw was a small handful of townhalls with a heavy presence of obnoxious teabaggers making assholes out of themselves.  Of the more than 1,000 townhalls held by Congressional leaders in August, the vast majority featured no significant disruptive behavior of that sort.  Most rubbernecking people who went to townhalls last month looking for drama were probably bored to tears by just how much they didn’t look like what was happening on TV.

It’s sort of like a car wreck… everybody sees the terrible disaster on the side of the road and thinks “Oh my god!”... nobody noticed the 50 other cars that just drove safely by while their eyes were focused on the car wreck.

Comment #11: DTG in STL  on  09/27  at  05:59 PM

The only group that was majority Republican is the over-65 in 2008.  However, I don’t know what the racial breakdown was, and I suspect that the majority of white Boomers voted Republican.  I do believe that McCain would have won if only white people voted, which isn’t to say that the white vote was irrelevant. But I do believe you can win an election while losing a majority of white voters, as long as it’s a slim majority.

Comment #12: Amanda Marcotte  on  09/27  at  06:12 PM

Didn’t mean to paint an entire generation as all teabagger-style extremists, and if that’s what you got from my post, then it was even sloppier and more poorly written than I thought it was. Sorry about that.

Still I do tend to think that the teabaggers represent *in an extreme and virulent fashion* a general disdain and disrespect for younger generations among people white people over 50, along with a general discomfort with the rapidly increasing racial diversity of the US. They’re the thin crazy edge of a worrisome bell curve of attitude and affect.

But on these issues I’ll gladly defer to those who have more than impressions and anecdotes for their demographic and sociological data, which I don’t.

Comment #13: wapsie  on  09/27  at  06:28 PM

Of course racism underlies most of this.  And, of course, racism is going down in America as slowly and painfully as possible, dammit it all.

The thing I absolutely don’t get is how people are opposed to paying for healthcare for the “undeserving idle”, as if we aren’t already paying for healthcare, delivered in the least efficient and most costly way — through hospital Emergency Rooms — that is consumed by people some would declare to be the “undeserving idle”. 

Extending Medicare or some other method of providing universal healthcare would save money, because it would be spent in a more logical and efficient way.  Cut out the Insurance companies, let their managers and workers get jobs in some economically contributive field, let Emergency Rooms become again the place where you seek emergency care only, and move on as a nation.

But because some people wouldn’t suffer under that system as much as some Americans think they should, they fight tooth and nail to stop any meaningful reform.  And, of course, their effort to deny care for others hurts them too.  But somehow they think it’s worth it.

I’ve seen enough practical, applied racism to have a pretty good idea that the only real cure for racism is the death of the racist.  It gets so ingrained they cling to it until they draw their last breaths…

Comment #14: MikeEss  on  09/27  at  06:33 PM

I’ve got a buttload of statistics that says otherwise.

I’m sorry, but unless that’s a metric buttload, your statistics are outdated and useless.  So there.

Comment #15: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  09/27  at  06:43 PM

The only group that was majority Republican is the over-65 in 2008.  However, I don’t know what the racial breakdown was, and I suspect that the majority of white Boomers voted Republican.  I do believe that McCain would have won if only white people voted, which isn’t to say that the white vote was irrelevant. But I do believe you can win an election while losing a majority of white voters, as long as it’s a slim majority.

McCain did win the white vote overall… it wasn’t by a ton, but it wasn’t insignificant, either - I think by 5 points or so.  Too lazy to look it up.

And I’m sure most white Boomers voted for McCain as well… I just don’t think the disparity was nearly as great in that group as it was among white voters over 65, who aren’t Boomers.  Yes, the white Boomers definitely lean more Republican, but it isn’t by a huge majority.  There are a ton of Democratic-leaning white Boomers as well, and a whole lot of cultural icons from the Boom Generation who are decidedly very progressive people - these are the folks who were marching in the streets pushing for reproductive justice in the 1970s, after all.

I don’t have a personal stake in the fight… I’m a Gen Xer.

Comment #16: DTG in STL  on  09/27  at  06:44 PM

Recently, Brain Nosek, an associate professor of psychology at UVA, published results of another of his Implicit Association Tests regarding attitudes about race in the US. The tests involve getting people to respond with adjectives regarding some thing or group. For instance, implicit associations for a ‘banana split sundae’ might be delicious, tasty, smooth or fattening, cholesterol and diabetic. In this particular study, he found that 4 of 5 conservatives, 3 of 4 liberals and 2 of 5 African-Americans exhibited an implict preference of white people over black people.

The bottom line—racism is alive and well here, and if we are at all honest with ourselves, white Americans fall into one of three categories: Out-and-out racists, racists who deny their racism and repentant racists. Any claims on the part of us white folks that somehow our brains and hearts are racist-free zones is complete and utter bullshit.

Comment #17: revrick  on  09/27  at  06:49 PM

16,

Two demographic groups make for the preponderance of white votes for McCain—the over 65’s (aka the Silent Generation aka the former Mad Men) and Southerners. Here in PA, where Obama took a shellacking in the primary he won the general election by the greatest margin by a Democrat since LBJ and probably racked up a bigger margin than FDR did against Landon in ‘36. PA, after all, voted to re-elect Hoover!!! More to the point, here in Lehigh County aka PA Dutch country, which actually extends from the near suburbs of Philly out to the Appalachian ridge line, Obama would have still won without the votes of the city of Allentown… he won the white suburbs of Lehigh county!

Comment #18: revrick  on  09/27  at  07:01 PM

(sidetrack: some—perhaps most—of the more clownish teabaggers on parade this summer I bet were serious hippies back in the day, whose “protest” took the form of doofy moves like chanting OM a lot and trying to levitate the pentagon; it’s telling, for instance, that Arlo Guthrie—and his dad is whirling in his grave over it, no doubt—recently expressed sympathy and qualified support for Sarah Palin!)

Wapsie,

Not necessarily according to a high school buddy’s boomer aged parents and their friends who were actual hippie activists.  One of their biggest pet peeves is how many boomers love to hypocritically ride the coat-tails of hippie/countercultural activism in order to puff themselves up and put the younger generations down for their supposed apathy when the vast majority of the boomers back in the day were in their experience doing it half-assed, apathetic, or were actively fighting against them.  You may have a few exceptions here and there, but they don’t seem to be representative of most boomers who were active in the hippie or countercultural movement.

Comment #19: exholt  on  09/27  at  07:08 PM

Yep, in 2006, 49% of children under 5 were not white. That percentage grows every year.  By 2042, it’s projected that there will not be a single racial group that has 51% of the population.  White people are going to be a minority, too.  Or, the better way to put that is that we won’t have a majority/minority situation.  We really will be a melting pot.

Or, the other outcome is that Latinos go the way of the Irish Catholics and Jews and become considered to be though “ethnic” still “white”.

Comment #20: Ben D.  on  09/27  at  08:11 PM

exholt:

you have a crucial point there. There was a huge chunk of the boomer generation who thought the hippies and the peaceniks and the race-mixers were just plain weird. They might have gone so far as being glad they or their “fiancee” was on the pill, but that was about it. (I think the “fiance/e” thing—it was ok to screw someone as long as you intended to marry them—is what morphed into the modern “it’s OK if you’re Really Truly Soulmates, oops, that one wasn’t a soulmate” sequence.)

Comment #21: paul  on  09/27  at  08:16 PM

I don’t see that happening, Ben D., because anti-Irish prejudice never outstripped anti-black prejudice, and right now, Latino immigrants are drawing as much, and possibly more hysterical right wing ire than black people.

Comment #22: Amanda Marcotte  on  09/27  at  08:18 PM

Old, white people, the scourge of a nation.

I was in school in California during Prop 13 (1978-1979).  Those of you that don’t know what Prop 13 was, it was a way to defund public education under the guise of “property tax reform”.  It allowed older property owners to essentially freeze their property tax despite whatever currently assessed value the property might have and it cut the gut out of public education funding in California.

Again, hearkening back to California in the 70’s and 80’s, I’ve seen ballot measure after bond issue for schools fail, over and over again.  Prison funding, seems to get through.  And I’ve seen the editorials and heard the people say it themselves.  These older, white folks don’t want to pay for schools, “my kids are out of school, why should they?” they stupidly opine.

These people, whatever generation they happen to belong to, are the “me” generation.  They want theirs now and goddamnit, no one will stand in their way to get, keep it and do whatever they want with it.

I realize we’re talking about two generations here.  The nasty ones from the late 70’s and early 80’s and teabagging dunderheads of today but it’s the same lineage and the same, “gimme mine now” attitude.

Comment #23: ice weasel  on  09/27  at  08:18 PM

I was in school in California during Prop 13 (1978-1979).  Those of you that don’t know what Prop 13 was, it was a way to defund public education under the guise of “property tax reform”.  It allowed older property owners to essentially freeze their property tax despite whatever currently assessed value the property might have and it cut the gut out of public education funding in California.

What really pisses me off about that is conservatives use California’s budget troubles as some great indictment of liberalism, even though the reason it is in trouble is because of right wing crap like Prop 13 (and IIRC they have to have some ridiculous super-majority in the legislature just to raise taxes, too).

Comment #24: Ben D.  on  09/27  at  08:22 PM

Old, white people, the scourge of a nation.

Tell me about it. I used to edit a community newspaper in a town with a lot of old people, and I remember how crabby and nasty a lot of them would get whenever the schools tried to pass a tax increase or issue a bond. It didn’t help that many of the newer families were from South or East Asia.

My mother, bless her, once talked a bunch of ladies in her quilting circle into voting for a bond issue. She pointed out that no one would want to buy a house in a town with a shitty high school.

Comment #25: Bitter Scribe  on  09/27  at  08:42 PM

”(and IIRC they have to have some ridiculous super-majority in the legislature just to raise taxes, too)”

I believe it requires a 2/3’s.  Between Prop 13 and the rest of it, my home state has gone from being near the top in most measurements of government effectiveness to near the bottom…

(And let’s not forget or “celebrity” governor Schwarzenbush…)

Comment #26: MikeEss  on  09/27  at  08:49 PM

Tell me about it. I used to edit a community newspaper in a town with a lot of old people, and I remember how crabby and nasty a lot of them would get whenever the schools tried to pass a tax increase or issue a bond. It didn’t help that many of the newer families were from South or East Asia.

Whenever this happens, I kindly point out to these types of people that those immigrants are paying for their Social Security.

Comment #27: Ben D.  on  09/27  at  08:49 PM

you have a crucial point there. There was a huge chunk of the boomer generation who thought the hippies and the peaceniks and the race-mixers were just plain weird.

Paul,

A good point I loved to make to all the boomer teachers, Profs, and some parents of classmates who love to dump on Gen Xers like myself and the millenials for their “apathy”.  Funny how most became quite pissed off they became when they betrayed the fact they were more likely to be part of the apathetic majority of the “active” boomer generation. 

What really pisses me off about that is conservatives use California’s budget troubles as some great indictment of liberalism, even though the reason it is in trouble is because of right wing crap like Prop 13 (and IIRC they have to have some ridiculous super-majority in the legislature just to raise taxes, too).

And a factor in why some older cousins who are based in California are vowing to provide them with a private school education like they had despite the fact this current economy has called their ability to finance this in doubt.  Ironic considering some of them are living proofs that even graduating from some of the state’s/nation’s most exclusive private schools does not necessarily equate to success in undergrad nor in life.  :p

Comment #28: exholt  on  09/27  at  08:51 PM

Oh, and illegal immigrants especially are paying for it, since they pay into the system and will most likely never take anything out from it (they’ll be back in Mexico by then).

Comment #29: Ben D.  on  09/27  at  08:51 PM

The statistics about half of children under age 5 being “non-white,” and how by 2042 “non-white” will be the majority, need to be taken with a certain specific kind of grain of salt.  Specifically, we have to be careful not to project today’s ethnic and racial perceptions to the year 2042.

Even if the estimates get the numbers right, the big question is to what extent the Hispanic minority (and the others, to a lesser degree) will assimilate and integrate with the rest of the population of the country; i.e., to what extent “Mexican-American” in 2042 will be like “Italian-American” or “Irish-American” in 2009.  On the one hand, the Hispanic minority is assimilating at a very fast rate compared to earlier immigrant groups (e.g., rates of English adoption among the younger generations).  On the other hand, new immigrants from Latin America will continue to come, and thus, preserve a core population of unassimilated first-generation immigrants.

Comment #30: sacundim  on  09/27  at  10:15 PM

#30

Yep. Fer instance, a lot of the various asian-american groups seem pretty much indistinguishable from the heartland kind. I know a lot of people who spent their childhood and teen years as family translators because they were the only english speakers, and now are more mainstream than I am.

Comment #31: paul  on  09/27  at  10:51 PM

#31

I’m not predicting assimilation, though; I’m just trying to keep the predictions from going too far.  It’s probably impossible to tell what the racial culture of the USA will be in 2042, and most people who try IMO don’t consider many important factors.  For example, the fact that “Hispanic” is an anglo label for a bunch of different cultures and nationalities who don’t see it as their primary identity.  In a hispanicized future USA, today’s general discrimination against “Hispanics” could have given way to more specific discrimination against rural Mexican immigrants, Newyoricans, Dominicans and Salvadoreans…

Comment #32: sacundim  on  09/27  at  11:32 PM

Tell me about it. I used to edit a community newspaper in a town with a lot of old people, and I remember how crabby and nasty a lot of them would get whenever the schools tried to pass a tax increase or issue a bond.

Well, let’s consider the idea that they may have been on a fixed income.  It’s one thing to have rising taxes when your wages are also increasing (hopefully faster than inflation).  It’s another to have to face them when every expense eats into your standard of living.

Comment #33: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  09/27  at  11:33 PM

Poor old people are never in communities that are mostly elderly, unless they live in a place that has no more jobs and all the young people left.

In that case, there is no need for school bonds.

/me snickers…

Nooooo, the sort of crabby old people who complains about school bonds are usually the ones who can most afford the extra taxes.

Comment #34: shah8  on  09/28  at  12:59 AM

33,

According to the Census bureau, the only groups to make income gains since 2000 were women born before 1955 and men born before 1945. And when it comes to income, the 65-75 year-olds are second highest, trailing the 54-65 age segment. The fixed-income trope is true only for the oldest olds (over 85s).

Comment #35: revrick  on  09/28  at  08:09 AM

PiaToR, with all respect, I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard that “fixed income” bullshit. News flash, Gramps and Granny: The vast majority of Americans now live on fixed incomes, when they’re not actually going backwards.

Nooooo, the sort of crabby old people who complains about school bonds are usually the ones who can most afford the extra taxes.

Word. Another paper I edited was based in a rich suburb that considered itself the center of the universe. Every time the property tax bills mailed out, I could count on outraged calls from people in houses that cost a minimum of half a mil, shrieking about having to educate other people’s children, some of whom even had brown skin!

Comment #36: Bitter Scribe  on  09/28  at  12:42 PM

Amanda:

It’s patently absurd to think that anyone is suggesting that criticizing Obama automatically equals racism.

...And I will say this: Even if we had a white President pushing for health care reform, I’d still suggest that racism is a major motivator ...

...I don’t particularly think that conservatives care if middle-class black and Hispanic people get into the employer-provided health care system.  But their objections to covering more people are racially tinged.

So what you’re saying is its absurd to think that criticizing Obama automatically equal racism, but racism is a major motivation to those who disagree?

please explain how that’s different from saying, “I’m not calling you a racist or anything, but you’re racist as hell.”

Comment #37: The Sasquatch  on  09/28  at  03:34 PM

So what you’re saying is its absurd to think that criticizing Obama automatically equal racism, but racism is a major motivation to those who disagree?

Disagreeing with Obama about his Afghanistan policy or support of telecom company immunity?  Probably not racist.  That’s because disagreeing about those things has very little to do with perceptions of race.

Disagreeing with Obama about the need to have health insurance coverage for everyone in the United States?  Probably racist.  That’s because disagreeing about those things has a huge amount to do with perceptions of race, especially when it comes to deciding who is and isn’t “worthy” of getting cancer treatment or diabetes medication.

Unless you work for an insurance company or otherwise financially benefit from our current system, there is absolutely no logical reason to block healthcare reform.  None.

Comment #38: Mnemosyne  on  09/28  at  03:45 PM

Unless you work for an insurance company or otherwise financially benefit from our current system, there is absolutely no logical reason to block healthcare reform.  None.

You’re right. There’s no reason to block reform. Claiming that you believe the government shouldn’t be in the business of providing healthcare doesn’t block reform. It merely questions the methods of reformation. And questioning a method of reformation, even in the case of healthcare, is not necessarily motivated by race.

Comment #39: The Sasquatch  on  09/28  at  05:36 PM

Claiming that you believe the government shouldn’t be in the business of providing healthcare doesn’t block reform.

Yes?  And what is your plan to get insurance companies under control without government intervention?  “Clap harder” isn’t working so far, but maybe if we take even more regulations away, then the insurance companies will voluntarily cut their own profits!  Deregulation worked out so well with the mortgage industry, I can’t wait until we can apply it to healthcare.

It merely questions the methods of reformation. And questioning a method of reformation, even in the case of healthcare, is not necessarily motivated by race.

Not when your questioning is based on a political philosophy that has never been successfully put into practice anywhere and consists of people insisting that they’re “rugged individualists” while they’re standing on infrastructure that other people paid for.  That’s not “questioning the method of reformation.”  It’s the equivalent of Christians insisting that evolution shouldn’t be taught in the schools because it contradicts their religion.

If your stance on healthcare reform requires that you ignore reality and common sense to hold on to your ideal vision of a libertarian utopia, you are not operating on a rational basis.  You are operating on faith, which is not something that should be allowed to direct our public policy.

And if you’re going to try and insist there’s no such thing a racist libertarian, don’t bother.  Pretending that removing civil rights protections will have no effect on how black people are treated is malice masquerading as naivete.

Comment #40: Mnemosyne  on  09/28  at  07:27 PM

Going back to #33

The whole “fixed income” thing with the older folks is like saying “small business” when you fact you mean nothing of the sort.

Of course there were some older folks struggling in some, maybe many places.  I can only tell you what I saw around me.  In San Diego, in the early eighties, there weren’t a lot of older people making on dole alone.  These are people for whom the big decision of the day is which mall to hang out at or which golf ensemble to wear.  Not wealthy but by no means hurting (and many of them were very comfortable to say the least).  Maybe somewhere else in California the reverse was true.  Maybe.

Comment #41: ice weasel  on  09/29  at  12:55 AM

And what is your plan to get insurance companies under control without government intervention?  “Clap harder” isn’t working so far, but maybe if we take even more regulations away, then the insurance companies will voluntarily cut their own profits!  Deregulation worked out so well with the mortgage industry, I can’t wait until we can apply it to healthcare.

One possibility is stricter regulations. Another possibility is holding insurance companies to those regulations. Or maybe it’s universal healthcare. I don’t know. The point wasn’t to claim that universal healthcare was bad. I merely wished to point out that its ignorant to hide behind claims of racism when you can’t engage in intelligent conversation and analysis of the different possible methods of reformation.

Not when your questioning is based on a political philosophy that has never been successfully put into practice anywhere and consists of people insisting that they’re “rugged individualists” while they’re standing on infrastructure that other people paid for.

What political philosophy is that? You’re reading too much into my words.

I’m not espousing any particular political philosophy. I’m only pointing out that you’re engaging in scare tactics when you change the subject to racism instead of healthcare. Its the same thing as conservatives who change the subject to soclialism/communism. Stop it.

If your stance on healthcare reform requires that you ignore reality and common sense to hold on to your ideal vision of a libertarian utopia, you are not operating on a rational basis.  You are operating on faith, which is not something that should be allowed to direct our public policy.

If your stance on healthcare reform requires that you ignore reality and common sense to hold on to your ideal vision of a socialist utopia, you are not operating on a rational basis.  You are operating on faith, which is not something that should be allowed to direct our public policy.

See…Scare tactics get us nowhere.

And if you’re going to try and insist there’s no such thing a racist libertarian, don’t bother.

Here’s a thought. How’s about you wait for me to say something before trying to prove me wrong. I know there are racist libertarians. I’ve seen them, too. I never intended to say the things you seem to want me to say.

Pretending that removing civil rights protections will have no effect on how black people are treated is malice masquerading as naivete.

You have two choices. You can either engage real people in real conversation or you can build up your strawman arguments to the point of insanity. One way is rational and intelligent. The other is ignorant. Currently, you’re ignorant. Please join the rest of us in Rational-Land. We’d love to have you.

Comment #42: The Sasquatch  on  09/29  at  10:08 AM

Not to disagree with your basic point, but you overstate your data here: “Looks like white people are far more likely to have insurance than anyone else, by a long shot.”  Based on the data you show, the likelihood of having insurance by ethnicity is as follows:  White 89%, Black 80%, Hispanic 66%, American Indian 69%, Asian/Pacific Islander 84%.  Clearly whites are most likely to be insured, but the standouts are Hispanic and Native American by their low insurance rate.

[/data geek]

Comment #43: moioci  on  09/29  at  11:07 AM
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