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Next entry: Foot, Meet Bullet.  I Shot It At You. Previous entry: And To The West…A Goat Blower

Andrew Breitbart’s epic lack of self-awareness

Update: Mike Stark has a video where Andrew Breitbart claims that he never knew that O’Keefe didn’t wear the ridiculous pimp costume into the ACORN offices. I’m skeptical.

I’m sort of amazed, right along with Joan Walsh, that the wingnutteria lack so much self-awareness that they think that screaming and throwing a tantrum and almost breaking down is a “rational” response from Andrew Breitbart, who is losing his shit rapidly as the stunt he helped pull with James O’Keefe and Hannah Giles against ACORN is being exposed as mostly bullshit and not a little bit racist.  They think it’s self-evident that a conservative white guy should get to do whatever he wants; behaving yourself is for the undeserving—-women, non-white people, liberals.  Screeching and freaking out is “rational”.....if you’re a conservative white guy.  It’s tautological.  The word “rational” means “conservative white guy” in their book, so everything they do is “rational”, even if they’re Glenn Beck lying and crying on camera. 

It figures.  The same people who think this “rap” video is the bee’s knees can’t be expected to engage with reality, or dictionary definitions of the word “rational”. 

The justification for Breitbart’s “kicking ass” like “John Wayne” (seriously, this is the commenters at his site’s own words) is that meanie liberals called him a racist.  Quoting Joan Walsh:

The crux of Marcus’s argument is that Breitbart’s hysteria is justified, because in Breitbart’s words, “The worst thing you can do ...in politically correct America…is accuse somebody of being a (sic) racism.”

Fine, Andrew.  If it’s just a matter of one little word, I’ll happily agree to switch to Pam’s wonderful replacement term “color-arousal”.  Let’s just say that James O’Keefe seems to be in a constant state of color-arousal:

Blumenthal’s Salon article detailed O’Keefe’s involvement in a white nationalist debate featuring American Renaissance’s Jared Taylor (we corrected the article to take out the charge that O’Keefe helped organize the event). Blumenthal and the New York Times and others have written about O’Keefe’s racially tinged pranks at Rutgers, where he organized a spoof “affirmative action bake sale” (where minorities got discounts) and protested the cafeteria carrying “Lucky Charms” cereal because it belittled Irish Americans. Then there’s that silly pimp stunt, with a fur coated costume borrowed straight from blaxploitation movies. It’s fair to raise questions about O’Keefe (and Breitbart’s) racial attitudes.

Don’t forget another piece of evidence to add to the overall puzzle: Hannah Giles uses terms like “thug organization” to describe ACORN.  Why are they “thugs”, Hannah?  Is it because they aggressively fill out those tax forms for their clients?  Is it because they organize for better housing with brickbats?  Do the voter registration drives run by ACORN all start off with a rousing chorus of “When You’re A Jet”?

And that was Pam’s point.  If conservatives are going to say that the word “racist” is so bad that openly racist behavior can’t be called “racist”, then we’ll just have to use another term.  Because what they’re trying to do with this emotional freak-out is shut down discussions they can’t win, and they can’t win them because they know they’re in the wrong.  I’m personally unimpressed by conservative white guys and their female support staff claiming that labeling behavior is so wrong that it can’t be done no matter how accurate the label.  If it hurts your feelings to be called a liar and a racist, maybe you should reconsider being a liar or a racist—-or you could just own it.  But wanting the space to perform the behaviors without anyone acknowledging what you do?  Since when is that a right?

Joan notes that there are indeed things worse than being called a racist:

It’s clearly worse to be accused of supporting death panels for elderly people, of usurping the presidency you’re not eligible for, of being the murderous “Joker” from the Batman series, of being a totalitarian Marxist when you’re a mainstream corporate Democrat – all the charges the increasingly unhinged right routinely toss at Barack Obama.

I’ll add that it’s worse when you take a job to serve people who are underserved in general and need more help, and all you get for your troubles is a bunch of hateful wingnuts that have nothing better to do than make your life miserable, tell lies about you, stalk you, threaten you, try to get you fired, and now take highly edited videotapes of you that “prove” that you fit every ugly stereotype they have of your group—-that feminists are evil perverts; that social workers, particularly people of color, are stupid and amoral; that community activists in urban areas are pretty much terrorists.  It’s worse to be Dr. George Tiller, murdered because he thought even heavily pregnant women have a right to health and well-being.  Or the employees at ACORN, targeted because they had the nerve to be out there every day helping low income people get housing and other improvements to their community. Or to be targeted because you work at Planned Parenthood, and your first response to a sexually active teenage girl coming in is to find legal ways to help her instead of slapping a pair of cuffs on her and calling the police.  (Or whatever it is that Lila Rose thinks they’re supposed to do—-turn them away and make them give birth in an alley, I suppose.) 

It’s far, far worse to be a good person out there doing hard work for a good cause, and being targeted for abuse because a bunch of right wingers think the people you serve deserve to eat dirt and die for being sexually active, poor, gay, etc.

Of course, there is a huge difference between the accusations being lobbed at liberal politicians and activists by the unhinged right and being called racist for donning your costume from your “pimps and hos” party to juice up a deceitful video aimed at defunding better housing efforts for low income communities.  The difference here is the truth of the accusations.  If right wingers think calling someone a baby killer, a pedophila pusher, a back-stabbing terrorist sympathizer, or someone who helps pimps control 13-year-old prostitutes isn’t that bad, it’s because they know and we know their accusations are 100% horseshit.  That, and they don’t think those of us who they lie about are human beings, really, and so we don’t deserve consideration. 

What’s annoying to me is that Andrew Breitbart’s meltdown over the word “racist” resembles the one I’ve seen non-famous folks who buy the redneck philosophy perform over and over in cases where you’d think even the last grasp on plausible deniability has been abandoned.  A short play:

Redneck philosophizer: “Did you hear the one about the (fill in unbelievably racist joke involving racial slurs that you thought went out with the KKK having any real power)?”

You, the commie symp: *pulls a face*

Redneck philosophizer: “I’m not a racist!  I have no hate in my heart towards anyone!  I just call them (fill in unbelievably offensive racial slur, including the N-word) when they act that way!”

When I hear Breitbart defend the ridiculous pimp costume in the ACORN videos—-and that’s not even touching on the fact that O’Keefe didn’t even wear that pimp costume to the ACORN offices, because he knew that kind of racist joke would get him thrown on his ass in a millisecond—-every variation of the above conversation I’ve born witness to comes immediately to mind.

Here’s the other thing to keep in mind as Breitbart substitutes belligerence for arguments: The whole “hiding your money from the IRS” advice accusation seems to have been created from heavy editing.  Since Giles and O’Keefe went in presenting Giles as a streetwalker who was trying to escape an abusive pimp, the advice to hide her money away was likely advice about hiding it from a pimp, and only through editing did they manage to turn the pimp into the IRS.  Breitbart almost surely knows how deceptive these videos are, and his freaking out is over losing control of the narrative.  In the future, he should probably consider sticking to the unvarnished truth.  It’s easier to keep the story straight if you’re not fudging the facts.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:37 AM • (72) Comments

If it hurts your feelings to be called a liar and a racist, maybe you should reconsider (not) being a liar or a racist

Reminds me of the preacher routine from The Steve Martin Brothers:

You know, recently I did an interview with People magazine.  And when the interview came out, I was deeply shocked, because it was filled with lies and made-up facts.  They should’ve told me ahead of time they did not want me to lie or make up facts.

Comment #1: Jewbacca  on  03/02  at  11:56 AM

Cocaine:  Still one hell of a drug.

Comment #2: Zifnab  on  03/02  at  12:17 PM

I don’t know whether to predict that Breitbart will eventually eat a baby (“Pink jumper?! Why are you wearing a pink jumper?!? What are you implying about James O’Keefe?! SOROSITE! ARE YOU INSANE?!?”) or if a heart attack will take him down first…

Comment #3: Scott  on  03/02  at  12:19 PM

This. Post.

Brings back attempts at logical conversations with my wingnut family. Reminds me of my Dad’s rants at my tenn self re some political point or other. Then when I would start crying, he would tell me I ‘wasn’t logical’ and had therefor lost whatever argument we were having. Ah, good times.

I learned to fight back by 1. having actual facts at my disposal and 2. saying them louder than anyone else in the room.

They wanna do freakout? Watch me! I can see them and raise them! This is the oldest, oldest trick in the wingnut playbook. Just treat them like tantruming 2 year-olds, and treat them to excellent eviscerations like this. Thank you. 

Read you every day, wouldn’t miss a post. Oh, and it’s ‘borne witness’.

Comment #4: means are the ends  on  03/02  at  12:19 PM

Meant ‘teenage self’. Going for more caffeine.

Comment #5: means are the ends  on  03/02  at  12:19 PM

Worse things than being called a racist?  Liberal or feminist, take your pick, the authoritarians hate us so.

Comment #6: paradox  on  03/02  at  12:22 PM

According to Calvinball rules, though, the freakout is only a winning move if you have the White Guy badge.  What that does is eliminate the “hysterical” kickback that can actually weaken the argument.  Since we know the White Guy badge automatically turns whatever lunatic thing you say into rationality, the freakout is only a move if you achieve that level.  How do you achieve that level?  Well, you have to be born with it.  Sorry, folks!  They don’t make the rules—-

Oh wait, that’s exactly what they’re trying to do.

Comment #7: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/02  at  12:25 PM

Of course, if you don’t have the White Guy badge, alternative skills to the freakout can and should be built: snarking and fact-gathering are biggies.

Comment #8: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/02  at  12:28 PM

I now can’t stop imagining Breitbart’s insane rage at everyday objects.

“Venetian blinds? From VENICE? With all the WATER and BOATS and WHAT ARE YOU IMPLYING ABOUT JAMES O’KEEFE?!? DIDN’T YOU SEE THE VIDEO?!? AAAAACOOOORNNNN!” (tears Venetian blinds down, stomps on them, screams incoherently)

“Stop signs? Why should I stop? I shouldn’t stop, ACORN SHOULD STOP! Why aren’t there stop signs for ACORN!” (gets out of car, attacks stop sign, hits it several times, howls with rage that his hand hurts, tries to push sign over, bites signpost)

Comment #9: Scott  on  03/02  at  12:30 PM

Personally, I think actually being racist is much worse than calling a racist a racist. 

O’Keefe and Giles are vile vile people and I want them to go away.

Comment #10: leedevious  on  03/02  at  12:41 PM

The thing about these guys is that they want to be in charge of naming things. THey hate it when a lesser mortal call it for what it is. Unless a white dude says, “I am racist and this is a racist statement,” they calim it can’t be racist, because only white guys get to label and identify stuff.

Comment #11: ginmar  on  03/02  at  12:53 PM

Hannah Giles calls ACORN a “thug organization” because they largely serve poor and POC communities.  It’s not a racist dog whistle; this descriptor is a foghorn.

It is a miserable experience being both defensive AND proud of one’s racism.  I have never known a racist (including members of my family) who has been a happy, content, well-rounded and well-grounded person.

Comment #12: Kathy  on  03/02  at  12:56 PM

Wow, Amanda. This is the perfect post. I’ll be e-mailing this link to a few friends.

Also, “It’s easier to keep the story straight if you’re not fudging the facts.”

What’s that quote? Can’t remember who said it but it goes something like, “If you’re going to be a liar, you’d better have a good memory.”

Comment #13: Mark  on  03/02  at  01:06 PM

“It is a miserable experience being both defensive AND proud of one’s racism.  I have never known a racist (including members of my family) who has been a happy, content, well-rounded and well-grounded person.”
Comment #12: Kathy on 03/02 at 10:56 AM

Then you have never known a white person, because as we know, ALL white persons are racist by definition. They can perform non racist actions, but are forever actual racists due to an accident of birth. Calling a white person a racist is no different than saying a human breathes.

Comment #14: ayutokamina  on  03/02  at  01:16 PM

“I have never known a racist (including members of my family) who has been a happy, content, well-rounded and well-grounded person. “

I imagine that’s probably because they’re so busy projected all their shortcomings, fears, and desires on somebody else.  :D

Comment #15: leedevious  on  03/02  at  01:18 PM

See what I mean?  Ayuto probably thinks that he can’t help but use the N-word, that he was born that way, and we’re the real bigots for oppressing his in-born tendency to tell racist jokes.

Hey, moron: I’m white and don’t think I can’t help but say things like “thug organization”.  But because I am white, I’m privy to the “oh we think we can just say this shit because there are no people of color in the room” moments, and so your little act does not fool me.  And you and I know that your act doesn’t fool me or any white people who’ve made a conscious choice to reject the racism that’s around us.  We may not be as successful as we’d like, of course.  But I’m not talking about people who screw up. I’m talking about people like the one you are behind closed doors, who roll around in the shit and then get pissy when people say you stink.

Comment #16: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/02  at  01:24 PM

“Then you have never known a white person, because as we know, ALL white persons are racist by definition. They can perform non racist actions, but are forever actual racists due to an accident of birth. Calling a white person a racist is no different than saying a human breathes. “

I don’t think racist or not-racist is so much of a clear-cut distinction.  Absolutely, all white people are racist to an extent, as it is unavoidable.  But I think to be an actual “RACIST” (as that is one of your defining characteristics) you have to be ignorant to your privilege and frequency act on your racist impulses.  I think it’s more of a sliding scale.

Of course if you’re going to go all out and say all white people are racists, you would have to say that all people are racists in general, because in studies, most people show show preference for things that are “white”.

Comment #17: leedevious  on  03/02  at  01:25 PM

Oh, lee, he’s just whining.  He’s trying to make the word “racist” something that can never be used, ever.  And the reason is so that he can be racist without feeling guilty about it.

Comment #18: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/02  at  01:28 PM

Why can’t you have any sympathy for ayuto? Do you know how hard it is when people call him a racist motherfucker just because he constantly is a racist motherfucker? Do you have any idea how many stop signs he has to bite to relieve the tension and rage of his embittered honkey lifestyle?

Comment #19: Scott  on  03/02  at  01:29 PM

ayutokamina,

Please see Amanda’a post above. Specifically this line…“If it hurts your feelings to be called a liar and a racist, maybe you should reconsider being a liar or a racist”.

Comment #20: Mark  on  03/02  at  01:33 PM

All white Americans are racists, but some of us try harder not to be than others.

Comment #21: mr_subjunctive  on  03/02  at  01:35 PM

Then you have never known a white person, because as we know, ALL white persons are racist by definition. They can perform non racist actions, but are forever actual racists due to an accident of birth. Calling a white person a racist is no different than saying a human breathes.

Do I hear the strains of the world’s smallest violin to accompany ayutokamina’s wrestling match with a scarecrow dressed as a Black Panther?

Want to know how to tell if a white person has a problem with non-whites? When he claims false victimhood, as ayutokamina does. Switch out “white” for “male” and you have an instant preview of this clown’s comments concerning feminist issues.

Stupid and self-defeating if ayutokamina wants to be taken seriously, but (as Breitbart also demonstrates) good sense and self-awareness isn’t exactly the first thing that comes to mind when you think of racists.

Comment #22: Gracchus.  on  03/02  at  01:36 PM

@Scott

The idea of wingnuts rabidly gnawing on stop signs that stand in their way has me literally “hee hee hee"ing. Thank you.

Comment #23: mir  on  03/02  at  01:42 PM

The whole “hiding your money from the IRS” advice accusation seems to have been created from heavy editing.

Left out of the edited videos:

NY p. 28
Hannah (Eden): But they should throw Sonny [the pimp] in jail, not me, he’s the one who got me
started
Milagros (counselor): yea but its [garbled]
Hannah (Eden): I mean he got a whole slew of which is why I also want a house
Volda (loan counselor): yes because he prey on little girls yea
Hannah (Eden): He’s got all these 13, 14,15 year old girls from El Salvador and that’s what—I need to
protect them like I know what its like and I have to protect them and like give them somewhere to live.

DC p. 6-8
Acorn 4: [s]he needs to start taking track of her income and she needs to file taxes. You need to file
taxes every year to establish an income.

From the transcript at http://www.acorn.org/fileadmin/HomePageNews/2009Dec/Video_Transcript_Analysis_withExcperts.pdf via B,radBlog (http://www.bradblog.com), which has done exemplary work on this.

James O’Keefe and Hannah Giles are young white conservatives, and Fox News would cry if they were thrown in jail. Those are the only reasons they aren’t in jail right now. The only ones.

Comment #24: RickMassimo  on  03/02  at  01:45 PM

Sorry; forgot an end blockquote before the last two paragraphs.

Comment #25: RickMassimo  on  03/02  at  01:46 PM

If conservatives don’t like being called “racist”, stop acting like a racist, period.

Comment #26: Albert Cirrus  on  03/02  at  01:50 PM

James O’Keefe and Hannah Giles are young white conservatives, and Fox News would cry if they were thrown in jail. Those are the only reasons they aren’t in jail right now. The only ones.

Even Faux News will have trouble saving O’Keefe from the consequences of breaking into a Federal office building and tampering with the PBX. But yeah, if he weren’t white O’Keefe would be sitting in the pokey right now instead of being confined to his mommy’s basement pending trial or plea.

Comment #27: Gracchus.  on  03/02  at  01:51 PM

Is anyone actually surprised that this tool demonstrates just what an enormous a low life he is?

Comment #28: jrfunkenstein  on  03/02  at  01:52 PM

OK, I’m not getting this - now that there seems to be evidence the O’Keefe and Giles edited the video, and it was done with malicious intent, then why aren’t they getting hit with a civil suit at least?  I mean, fired ACORN worker sues ACORN (sorry, but the legal chain of fault has to be there, I think) and then ACORN turns around and sues O&G;?  Is it a defamation suit, or libel or slander?  And what about ACORN
itself - shit, the beef industry sued OPRAH (and lost) for disparaging (saying she wouldn’t eat) hamburger. 

Can someone explain why this is not happening, please?

Comment #29: phylosopher  on  03/02  at  02:10 PM

leedevious and mr_subjunctive:

All white Americans are racists, but some of us try harder not to be than others.

I know what you’re saying, but it’s more accurate to say all white Americans are implicated in a racist system, because we all benefit from it.  Even those of us who are not racist in any way (like ayutokamina, am i rite) are still inheritors of the system.

Sort of like how American atheists are part of Christendom, in spite of our conversational insistence that we aren’t.

Comment #30: Cris  on  03/02  at  02:13 PM

Then you have never known a white person, because as we know, ALL white persons are racist by definition.

Ah, the racist apologia.  “You can’t call me a racist because I’m white, and if you call me racist, you’re calling all white people racist, by extension!”

I mean, holy shit.  That’s got to be the poster comment for racism right there.  The assumption that if you find degenerative traits in a given individual, it must be present in everyone that shares racial heritage.  Ayutokamina, you couldn’t have encapsulated the racist mentality any better.

News flash, your skin color correlate with your opinions.  Only a racist would consider a white person “racist by definition”.  Hiding behind non-racist white people and screaming “Stop calling us all mean names” doesn’t reinforce your argument in the least.  Just the opposite, in fact.  Best of all, trying to deflect flak onto innocent bystandards that don’t share your beliefs only makes you look like a bigger asshole.

Comment #31: Zifnab  on  03/02  at  02:14 PM

Sort of like how American atheists are part of Christendom, in spite of our conversational insistence that we aren’t.

Say what?

Firstly, I may benefit from being in a society that has Christians in it, but I don’t benefit because it’s a Christian society.  A society of Jews, Buddists, Muslims, Hindus, or Mormons would benefit me all the same, so long as I’ve got running water, a monthly paycheck, an electric bill, and a grocery store.

I don’t go to church, or leverage the various social networks derived from being a member of a church congregation.  I don’t get government subsidies from faith based initiatives.  I don’t skirt tax laws by hiding behind religious affiliations.  And I don’t receive magical blessings from the Sky Fairy for living in a “Christian” nation, so perhaps I’m missing how I’m a “part of Christendom”, simply by being among Christians.

Comment #32: Zifnab  on  03/02  at  02:19 PM

Late coming back, but amusingly ayuto proved my point.  Really struck a nerve with you, eh?  His racism is emblematic of men who can’t cope with their little mental wee-wees.

Comment #33: Kathy  on  03/02  at  02:34 PM

Cris: but atheists benefit not at all from the overall Christian culture. White people benefit all the time, in ways they don’t even notice, from the overall racist culture. I’m not saying that everybody is racist in a cross-burning, O’Keefe/Breitbart way, but if you hold racist assumptions, if you perceive things in a privileged way, you’re still a racist from the perspective of a PoC, no?

I’m not saying all white people are the worst people ever. I’m just saying that we all grow up in a culture which is racist, homophobic, sexist, transphobic, ableist, etc., and so we all wind up with attitudes and assumptions which are racist &c;. that need to be actively worked against. I think it actually serves the purpose of racial inequality to make the word “racist” only mean slime like O’Keefe, because it lets the non-slimy majority of people off the hook for their own attitudes. I try to own my racism, because that’s the only way I’m going to be able to do anything about it.

Comment #34: mr_subjunctive  on  03/02  at  02:40 PM

Sort of like how American atheists are part of Christendom, in spite of our conversational insistence that we aren’t.

This doesn’t scan for me. “Christendom” is the old term for Europe, and although North America was a colony both the U.S. and Canada made distinct breaks with Christendom years ago. So the “American” part doesn’t work.

And even if you designate “Christendom” as “a predominantly Christian nation,” there are plenty of atheists here and in Europe who come non-Christian backgrounds. So the “atheists” part doesn’t work, either.

In other words, it’s not even close to being sort of like white privilege.

Comment #35: Gracchus.  on  03/02  at  02:42 PM

“so perhaps I’m missing how I’m a “part of Christendom”, simply by being among Christians.”

The only thing I can figure is that we continue to pay taxes instead of going all civil-disobediency on a government that gives tax breaks and faith-based funding to Christian churches and has spent the better part of a decade engaging in a holy crusade.

Comment #36: preying mantis  on  03/02  at  02:43 PM

Yes, ayutokamina , it’s EXTREMELY hard being a white male in America today, let me tell you! Very hard, will nobody stop women, immigrants, and blacks from standing on our necks with jackboots?

/end sarcasm

Comment #37: Ben D.  on  03/02  at  02:46 PM

The thought of ACORN members performing “When You’re a Jet” made me laugh out loud and now I look crazy. Thanks! wink

Comment #38: alysia  on  03/02  at  02:55 PM

Also, it’s not white people who benefit from systemic white-favoring racism, but people who others identify as white (consider: mixed racial people who “pass”, and various historical considerations of Italians, Jews, fair Lebanese, etc).

Comment #39: helen w. h.  on  03/02  at  03:00 PM

The only pervasive characteristic of white people in American is not knowing how much you benefit from being white in our society. No one ever crossed the street to avoid me, store employees do not watch me when I shop, no one assumed I couldn’t do the work in school, I never heard honkie or peckerwood jokes, no one looks at me cross-eyed when I go into a bar filled with white people, I always get the benefit of the doubt, etc. etc. This is known as white privilege, not racism.

Comment #40: Hector B.  on  03/02  at  03:07 PM

The only pervasive characteristic of white people in American is not knowing how much you benefit from being white in our society.

In all fairness, that is in large part because we’re the dominant ethnic group in our country.  If you travel to China or South Africa or Brazil, you may very well get those looks.  Show up at an NAACP meeting.  Sit down for dinner with your friend’s hispanic family.  Things get a bit awkward.  You get a few strange looks.

I had a friend who visited the rural west of China, and she literally had little kids run away from her in fear.

I do think you might be confusing white privilege with rich privilege.  White people living in backwater Alabama or podunk Tennessee, getting laid off from factory jobs or working minimum wage at Walmart, probably don’t consider themselves any more privileged than their black or Hispanic counterparts.  In many cases, it’s the economically hard up most prone to racism because they assume their racial peers are getting a better deal.

The looks you don’t get for being a minority would be looks you’d probably earn for looking like white trash.  Being well groomed or looking wealthy can go a long way towards changing someone’s attitude towards you.  White just happens to be correlated with wealthy, and it’s money that leaves you beyond reproach wandering grocery stores and spares you derogatory nicknames.

Comment #41: Zifnab  on  03/02  at  03:19 PM

Hector, try going into a bar filled with another race.  Do you really consider that you are privileged to go into the bar with people of your own race not get stared at?  If you think no one has ever crossed the street to avoid you, you are probably just unaware of the fact they did so (I am assuming from your name you are male).  Clearly, you never watched the Jeffersons or All in the Family.

Comment #42: helen w. h.  on  03/02  at  03:21 PM

Drat, Zifnab made the point as fast and better.

Comment #43: helen w. h.  on  03/02  at  03:23 PM

phyl, they have sued, a bunch.  The won in the suit against Congress, no word on the individual lawsuits.

Comment #44: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/02  at  03:36 PM

I think that part of white privelege is the privelage of being ungaware of racism. Yes there advantages inherit in being a part of the dominant ethnic group in a region and there is definitely class privelege in the US, but white privelege is more than that. For example I could walk into a room full of white supremacists, make small talk, leave, and never know who I was talking to our how prevalent those people are in society. While it may seem ridiculous that laid of factory worker in AL is “privelaged” whereas, for example, the Obama girls are not, the former would still be able to remain blissfully ignorant of the degree of racism in America.

Basically white privelage does not mean that all white people have super awesome lives and are never judged base on appearance, etc—it just refers to privelage on the dimension of race and the ability to remain unaware of racism.

Comment #45: alysia  on  03/02  at  03:40 PM

probably don’t consider themselves any more privileged than their black or Hispanic counterparts.

Privileged people generally don’t even realize they’re privileged—that’s part of what privilege entails.

Comment #46: Hector B.  on  03/02  at  03:42 PM

store employees do not watch me when I shop

There’s probably something to Zifnab’s theory, because I’m white as snow and I get this one a lot, especially if I’ve neglected to brush my hair that day and before lunch, when I get spacey from low blood sugar.  And this has happened to me in both predominately white and more diverse (read, poorer.  Sorry, but I am from Cleveland and that is the way the cookie frequently crumbles) neighborhoods.  Not that racism can’t play into a store employee’s idea of “what a shoplifter looks like,” especially if the neighborhood the store is in is too vanilla.  It’s just if you don’t look properly snazzy, there’s plenty of times your white privilege can be suspended.

Comment #47: Kyso K  on  03/02  at  03:56 PM

Kyso K:

If you don’t look properly snazzy, then it’s class privilege you have to worry about, not the suspension of white privilege. I know I’m nitpicking.

Comment #48: mr_subjunctive  on  03/02  at  04:01 PM

I think that part of white privelege is the privelage of being ungaware of racism.

Yes, this.  A good example: I went to grad school with a former AT&T;middle manager, a white male, who took his voluntarily-leave-before-we-start-the-layoffs package and went to earn his PhD in organizational behavior.  He’s now a very enlightened man who does research on workplace discrimination.  But I recall once, early on in grad school, as his eyes were just starting to really open to the experiences of people not like him, that he said, “you know, when I was a manager, I just didn’t really think much about how the women and non-white people perceived things.”  And we noted what a luxury that was, that we could be quite certain that the women and people of color there very certainly DID think about how the white men perceived things, because those perceptions affected the women/PoC’s working lives in very real ways.  They didn’t have the luxury of ignoring that point of view.

Comment #49: CalliopeJane  on  03/02  at  04:09 PM

phyl, they have sued, a bunch.  The won in the suit against Congress, no word on the individual lawsuits.
Comment #44: Amanda Marcotte on 03/02 at 01:36 PM

Thanks, I looked again, and I see two suits, one the Bill of Attainder ACORN v. Congress
and ACORN v. Breitbart, O’Keefe and Giles for violation of Maryland’s no secret taping law.

That still leaves the general impression in the public (even Barney Frank condemned ACORN) that what was recorded was accurate, even if the ACORN employees were humoring or “playing with” the crazies, even though recorded illegally.  That it was a maliciously edited fake isn’t addressed by either suit and that needs to be done, and O’Keefe and his family bankrupted for life.

Comment #50: phylosopher  on  03/02  at  04:21 PM

That’s the media’s fault, phyl.  And a lot of that is due to the fact that many members of the “liberal” media were tickled pink by the racist subtext of the videos, and are reluctant to admit they were wrong.

Comment #51: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/02  at  04:28 PM

If you don’t look properly snazzy, then it’s class privilege you have to worry about, not the suspension of white privilege. I know I’m nitpicking.

What if it’s other poor people making the assumption?  What if the white person is the minority in the store and white becomes a strike against rather than an asset, in that terribly specific instance?  We could all go in circles all day about which privilege comes into play when.  What’s the Austen quote about if Darcy weren’t such a great tall fellow, I wouldn’t pay him half so much deference?  You can’t figure out what prejudices come into play in any situation without knowing all the particulars of everyone involved, and half the times the people involved are strangers who will not be defending themselves here, so maybe we shouldn’t let this thread dissolve into a bunch of progressive out-lecturing each other on their favorite brands of privilege.

But now I’m starting to sound like I want to argue against the idea of white privilege ever mattering, and I don’t.  I know it’s there, and that the times its not working in my favor are few and far between.  But they do exist, and I’m willing to bet there’s some people out there for whom it doesn’t do much good.  That doesn’t mean all minorities should sit down and shut up about it, obviously, so please don’t jump on me like I’m trying to be an apologist smile

Comment #52: Kyso K  on  03/02  at  04:50 PM

I guess we’re also starting to conflate personal vs all of society. I will be more careful about that.

Comment #53: Kyso K  on  03/02  at  05:03 PM

I don’t go to church, or leverage the various social networks derived from being a member of a church congregation.  I don’t get government subsidies from faith based initiatives.  I don’t skirt tax laws by hiding behind religious affiliations.  And I don’t receive magical blessings from the Sky Fairy for living in a “Christian” nation, so perhaps I’m missing how I’m a “part of Christendom”, simply by being among Christians.

I agree with you in general, but the previous poster’s point has some validity… if you work a full-time salaried job with benefits, I’m guessing you don’t have to work on December 25th every year, but you still get paid for that day as if you had worked.

I think the point is that even atheists and agnostics live within a culture that is largely Christian, and are impacted by that culture even when they aren’t aware of it.

Comment #54: DTG in STL  on  03/02  at  05:32 PM

If you don’t look properly snazzy, then it’s class privilege you have to worry about, not the suspension of white privilege. I know I’m nitpicking.

The obligation to look properly snazzy is itself an obligation that only falls upon the lower middle class and below. There may be something about your mannerisms and speech that out you as “suspicious” when you’re dressing down that other people don’t have to face. There are always going to be subtle indicators of your class background that unconsciously indicate to clerks and others “guy who is just dressing down today” vs. “suspicious riff-raff.” Class privilege is the privilege of never having to worry about being mistaken for the latter category.

Comment #55: Tyro  on  03/02  at  07:15 PM

I agree with you in general, but the previous poster’s point has some validity… if you work a full-time salaried job with benefits, I’m guessing you don’t have to work on December 25th every year, but you still get paid for that day as if you had worked.

I also get the Fourth of July.  And both Saturday and Sunday.  If I was in France, I’d have a 35-hour work week.  That said, when I was working part time retail, back in high school and college, the 4th, Christmas, and weekends were all fair game.

Again, I’m unclear on how work holidays - something every culture I can name has - became a product of the Christian religion.  I get 2 weeks floating paid vacation in my full time job.  From where I’m sitting, Christmas is just a vacation day I don’t get to pick.  If anything, that’s more a burden than a blessing.

Comment #56: Zifnab  on  03/02  at  07:27 PM

That still leaves the general impression in the public (even Barney Frank condemned ACORN) that what was recorded was accurate, even if the ACORN employees were humoring or “playing with” the crazies, even though recorded illegally.

Those Democrats in Congress (and large numbers of the blogosphere) should be ashamed of themselves.

Comment #57: bay of arizona  on  03/02  at  07:36 PM

Again, I’m unclear on how work holidays - something every culture I can name has - became a product of the Christian religion.

Not work holidays in general… December 25th in particular.  If not for the widely celebrated Christian holiday of December 25th in America, would you still have that particular day off of work?  And yes, I realize that Christmas is functionally a secular holiday today and that December 25th was appropriated by Christians from pagan traditions, but the point being, America decided to make an explicitly Christian holiday a national holiday, and as a national holiday, whether you are Christian or not, it affects your life - for instance, all banks and post offices are closed on that day, as well as most grocery and retail stores.

Comment #58: DTG in STL  on  03/02  at  07:40 PM

“Christendom” is an acceptable term for “the western world.” Europe and the Americas (not counting predominantly native/indigenous enclaves) are part of Christendom. Whereas Japan is not. Obviously the term is becoming archaic as predominantly Muslim countries like Albania and Turkey are slowly getting integrated into the EU.

What’s that saying from the Italian writer about his country? “Everyone is Catholic. Even the atheists.”

The term “Christendom” was not meant to geographically describe Europe (though it did at the time the term was coined). It was meant to describe the cultural civilization that existed, as opposed to the rival Muslim civilization and more distant eastern world.

Comment #59: Tyro  on  03/02  at  08:36 PM

People who are atheists get presumptive Christian privilege so long as they don’t appear to be atheists.  In fact, sometimes they do get presumptive Christian privilege even if they say they’re atheists, but indicate they grew up as Christians, because the assumption is that they are just having a crisis of faith and will become “normal Christian people” eventually once they get over it. 

The point is, if they don’t actively practice a religion that makes them obviously non-Christian, they’re not treated differently from Christians.

If you wear a yarmulke or other religious clothing, Christian people who live in a Christian environment will often look at you funny.

Someone who wants off work on Yom Kippur will have to explain it and maybe defend it.  But we’re all assumed to want Christmas off.  And there’s no special atheist holiday you have to ask your boss to let you off work for.

Comment #60: oldfeminist  on  03/02  at  09:06 PM

Exactly. And nobody will ask you weird questions like “Do you REALLY give gifts on Christmas?!”

And yes, I realize that Christmas is functionally a secular holiday today

I’m trying not to be cranky about this because I am very sure that you didn’t realize the narrow perspective of this statement. It’s only a functionally a secular holiday if your own culture is nominally Christian.

Comment #61: mythago  on  03/02  at  11:00 PM

I’m trying not to be cranky about this because I am very sure that you didn’t realize the narrow perspective of this statement. It’s only a functionally a secular holiday if your own culture is nominally Christian.

I said that only because I know of many people who are nominally Christian (people who don’t normally attend Christian religious services or abide by Christian rules, but still consider themselves Christian), and even some openly atheistic people who still participate in Christmas traditions like gift giving and family gatherings, and even sometimes put up Christmas trees and decorations.

My point is, a lot of secular humanists - both theistic and atheistic - celebrate Christmas for non-Christian reasons.  I think our wonderful Pandagonian empress is one such atheist who still participates in some non-religious, secular Xmas traditions.

Comment #62: DTG in STL  on  03/02  at  11:25 PM

I have little faith that the ACORN narrative has changed after hearing a piece on All Things Considered about ACORN chapters reconstituting with new names. This was a week or two ago, and there was no mention that the accusations against ACORN were 100% made up.

The public still buys the narrative that ACORN is evil.

Comment #63: Ursula  on  03/02  at  11:33 PM

I have little faith that the ACORN narrative has changed after hearing a piece on All Things Considered about ACORN chapters reconstituting with new names. This was a week or two ago, and there was no mention that the accusations against ACORN were 100% made up.

To my knowledge, the only MSM personalities who’ve made any effort to cover this story with any degree of accuracy have been Maddow and Olbermann, and perhaps Schultz.

Comment #64: DTG in STL  on  03/03  at  12:06 AM

I celebrate Santa day, yes. This year I purchased my boyfriend a tie, and he got me a cookbook.

Comment #65: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/03  at  12:54 AM

“It’s only a functionally a secular holiday if your own culture is nominally Christian.”

Aren’t China and Japan now celebrating what is, essentially, Santa Day now?  It’s kind of like how Easter is all chocolate bunnies and marshmallow chicks so long as you don’t get too close to the whackaloons talking about nailing people to things and letting zombies out of caves (they forgot rule #2).  Eventually you’re tracking “religious holidays” by what Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse to celebrate.

Comment #66: preying mantis  on  03/03  at  01:08 AM

The crazy derail over Christianity (which I chuckled over because the atheists take it as a personal affront on some level) is interesting but not what I wanted to point out.

I know what you’re saying, but it’s more accurate to say all white Americans are implicated in a racist system, because we all benefit from it.  Even those of us who are not racist in any way (like ayutokamina, am i rite) are still inheritors of the system.

That is far more accurate.  White Americans who work towards equality aren’t racist, in fact if I remotely understand how racism works you have to put effort into being racist.  The sub-tones, invisible benefits, and general advantages whites get by being white don’t make you racist so much as opportunistic.  To be racist you have to actively believe another is inferior based upon race.  Now the inferiority can come in hundreds if not thousands of ways but you need to have that distinct belief to be “racist.”  Most white Americans are opportunistic, Tim Wise’s “White Like Me” really spells it out well and doesn’t qualify average joe blow white guy as a racist.  Just opportunistic and in need of trying to leverage that advantage into an advantage for everybody.  Raise the bar to be equal for all, giving everybody a chance to have a fair life.

Course the O’Keefes of the world are actively trying to prevent that from happening.  There is money to be had in keeping minorities down and whether it is an economic advantage, a political advantage, or just a general hatred the money can be earned by doing these outrageous things.  O’Keefe will go to jail, hopefully they’ll televise and point out his video was false but since he’ll get out with a few years of jail time at most the likelihood of him being back is high.  He’ll get a cushy lobbyist position no doubt.

Comment #67: Xeranar  on  03/03  at  07:45 AM

There is something about the right wingers that have really caused them to go further off their rocker than usual. It’s not just Breitbart. Look at Dana’s little mini-meltdown a few threads down when confronted with evidence that the right is going absolutely, humiliatingly nuts.

Breitbart, of course, knows he’s going to be permanently stained as, “that guy who hooked up with the crazy federal criminal O’Keefe,” and sees his dreams collapsing around him. The rest of the right realizes that they’re becoming known as, “that crazy friend who never got over Obama’s election.” It’s actually kind of sad, since Obama ran on a platform of, “bringing the country together,” and these loons had an opportunity to play a “all is forgiven” card, but they doubled down on the lunacy. All the right wingers I know have gotten crazier, not more reasonable, since the end of the Bush administration.

Comment #68: Tyro  on  03/03  at  11:20 AM

Knute, thanks for demonstrating a devotion to what you wish was true, alongside a determination not to let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

Comment #69: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  03/03  at  11:45 AM

@knuterockne

FAIL.

people are getting so absurd I’m starting to have a hard time differentiating between sarcasm and sincerity.

Comment #70: leedevious  on  03/03  at  12:04 PM

@CalliopeJane in #49:

“And we noted what a luxury that was, that we could be quite certain that the women and people of color there very certainly DID think about how the white men perceived things, because those perceptions affected the women/PoC’s working lives in very real ways.  They didn’t have the luxury of ignoring that point of view.”

Yeah, I think it was Audre Lorde (correct me if I’m wrong, that class was a long dang time ago) who wrote the dialectic of the master & the slave: the master only has to know what he likes for breakfast, and what irritates him, but the slave has to know this, intimately, about both himself and the master.  (Enter whatever gender pronouns you like, btw.)  This is the essence of privilege: the privileged only has to accept into his/her reality one’s own needs and perceptions; the underling of the privileged has a worldview crowded by a million needs other than his or her own.  Dealing with racism/sexism/whatever-ism intrinsically means taking a step back and considering those other worldview EVEN IF your level of privilege does not demand that you do so.  That’s a tough order; clearly, too tough for the Breibart’s of the world. 

Apply that to Ayn Rand, btw, and that’s why I for one find the Galtian worldview so odious…it’s pure, unadulterated privilege - no need to consider anyone else in the mix.  Rand wasn’t overtly racist that I remember, but the implication of the worldview most certainly demands that one nix out any experience that is not captured inside one’s own myopic view.

Comment #71: skylanda  on  03/03  at  12:48 PM
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