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Anita Hill, Thurston Moore, and the slow decline of sexual harassment

FeminismHistory

This month marks the 20th anniversary of Clarence Thomas's Senate hearings that led to his confirmation as a Supreme Court justice, which the country has been paying dearly for ever since. The whole thing was a disaster, of course, but one extremely important and good thing came out of it all; Anita Hill's brave testimony of enduring some really ugly sexual harassment at Thomas's hands ignited a public conversation about sexual harassment. And while we have a long, long way to go on this issue---most women endure sexual harassment, often on a regular basis still---the idea that sexual harassment is wrong has really taken hold in a way that simply wasn't true in 1991. It's an important first step. 

There was a conference honoring this 20th anniversary that I sadly had to miss, but that can be watched here.  The Nation had an excellent issue dedicated to it, with memories and reflections from a variety of writers, including one from Jessica Valenti on being 12 years old because she believed Anita Hill. 

"I believe Anita Hill": it was a battle cry of sorts then, and to an extent now. It seems like a straightforward statement---between Thomas and Hill, you find her story more believable---but if you really start to scratch at what happened then, it turns out it's quite a bit more complex than that. 

I was 14 when the whole thing happened. I wasn't really politicized yet, so I don't really recall having a strong opinion on it. Not that thinking deeply about the question was really an option; in my community, believing that Hill as both lying and making a mountain out of a molehill was an article of faith. That these two ideas people held simultaneously directly contradicted each other didn't seem to occur to anyone, much less me. Not at the time. She was lying, and anyway, he was just flirting with her and clearly she's an uptight prude with an agenda: faith, not reason supported this conclusion. Being skeptical of it would have received the same hostile treatment that all widespread faith beliefs are protected by. 

I mainly, at that point in time, liked reading books and listening to CDs, and it was the latter that pulled a brick out of my mental wall on this issue. Sonic Youth had a song on their 1992 record Dirty titled "Youth Against Fascism", and it had the lyric "I believe Anita Hill/Judge will rot in hell" on it. It almost feels like an understatement to say that this lyric blew my mind. A man standing up for a woman---a woman he didn't know, especiallly---in a dispute between a man and a woman over sexualized mistreatment? I had never experienced that before, and probably thought of it as simply impossible. Most women treated other women who spoke up about this stuff like pariahs, so the idea of a man calling bullshit, and being so angry about it, was just unbelievable to me. It felt so incredibly subversive. I didn't want to be caught listening to that lyric. It seemed dirty to suggest that there was any alternative to simply enduring sexual harassment in silence. 

Because, like Jessica, being young didn't mean I wasn't already well-versed in the problem of sexual harassment. By my first year of high school, I'd had teenage boys and even men try to get me into their cars with them on isolated roads (thank god my parents warned me about that one), had guys grope me in the hallways, had guys make lewd gestures at me, and generally been sexually abused at the hands of my male peers and occasional, scarier incidents with older men.  Like Jessica, I think I had no idea that this would be a lifelong problem. What I did know was this: It was not a compliment. You often hear, though far less than you used to, this notion that cat-calling was a compliment and only stupid women could therefore object to it. But it was, along with Hill's mendacity, an article of faith in my community that I was ugly and probably a lesbian and no one male could ever actually want to defile themselves by liking me. Thus, it was literally impossible for a lewd gesture to be a compliment. Most of the boys who did this stuff to me would have sooner endured someone putting a cigarette out on their arms than actually have anyone believe for a second they thought that someone like me was anything but scum for spitting on. I had no illusions, none, about what cat calls and groping meant. It was putting you in your place, a casual reminder that you had no value in their eyes and, more importantly, so little value to the community at large that no one would ever come to your defense. And no one ever did.

That's why "believing" Anita Hill was such a complex and frankly radical thing to do in the early 90s. It wasn't just that you were accepting her version of events. Many of her fiercest critics seemed not to deny that the events she described happened, after all. To believe Anita Hill was also to believe that Thomas was wrong to do the things he did. "Youth Against Fascism" made this clear. Thurston Moore didn't just affirm that he believed that Hill's testimony was factually accurate. He said that treating a woman like that was so wrong that a man who did such things would "burn in hell". He said that it was a man's fault if a man chooses to sexually harass a woman. No one around me was saying those things.

I think the message must have wormed its way into my head, because by the end of high school I was standing up to guys who sexually harassed me. It didn't make anyone defend me, of course. Most people who see a woman speak out against injustice treat her the way they treated Anita Hill---they're furious that she's making a scene, not that he abused her without cause. But standing up for myself made me realize that I didn't need to internalize the shame these assholes were dishing out. I could be proud of myself, even if no one else around me agreed that I deserved that. Hey, Thurston Moore agreed with me, you know, and none of these fools were making Sonic Youth records, so what do they know anyway?

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 04:47 PM • (56) Comments

Sonic Youth were such great elder statesmen of the 90’s mainstreaming of Alternative. Not only were Thurston and Kim awesome just for being themselves, but they really led the way on keeping a social conscience at the forefront of the subculture. I never would have imagined hearing Sonic Youth on the radio when I first saw them on 120 Minutes back in the 80’s: their video for Kiss Me in the Shadow of a Doubt is still burned into my brain as a confounding, frightening, and mysterious message from another universe that I wanted desperately to explore.

Comment #1: Dr. Locrian  on  10/25  at  05:54 PM

I remember a casual <5-min conversation about the hearings with an older woman I worked with at the time that has stuck with me over the years. 

My assumption that she would be on Anita Hill’s side (I figured she must surely have experienced plenty of harassment in her time and could relate) was shattered when it turned out that her opening comment (something like “Can you believe those Clarence Thomas hearings?”) was actually an observation on her part about how badly Clarence Thomas was being treated (by those dirty libruls) and not an expression of disgust on behalf of Anita Hill.

This prompted a reevaluation of my feelings about this woman, whom I previously thought was smart and funny and well-grounded.  I had no idea that she had such a wide streak of unhealthy authoritarian-loving conservatism flowing through her.

It was an unpleasant realization for me, a guy whose daughter had been born recently and who was attempting to purge from my psyche more of the sexist crap I had been raised with as a result (an effort that still continues to this day)...

Comment #2: MikeEss  on  10/25  at  06:03 PM

Mmmmm…...Steve Shelley…...mmmmmm.  Great Ripper bass that Kim is playing there too.

Comment #3: Henry Holland  on  10/25  at  06:30 PM

Maybe for you it was an act of faith.  Here, in the liberal Northeast, with friends who were law school classmates of some of the principals (yes, that Daggett guy was always an ass), of course we believed Anita Hill.  She was a strict conservative, she supported the gutting of the EEOC the way Thomas was doing it, she supported discrimination and hatred.  She was “all about” the Reagan Republican destruction of notions of equality.  She hadn’t even come forward herself; she had somehow been discovered through investigation, and she had to be dragged in front of the Senate.  In the easy weighing, she had everything to lose and nothing to gain, no reason to lie.  He, on the other hand, had everything to lose.  Plus, her stories all held together; they all seemed as if they could have happened.  His denials were clearly false.  I wished at the time that someone with real prosecutorial skill went after Thomas.  Biden was outed as a complete lightweight, totally out of his league.  I was embarrassed to be from Delaware.

Comment #4: Iam138  on  10/25  at  06:33 PM

I was substitute teaching at the time, and I noticed that some teachers, (all women, of course) had the radio tuned to the hearings when they weren’t teaching their classes.

That’s when I knew this was a change in attitude for the better, when middle-class people take something seriously, it becomes serious sooner or later.

Comment #5: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  10/25  at  06:39 PM

This month marks the 20th anniversary of Clarence Thomas’s Senate hearings that led to his confirmation as a Supreme Court justice, which the country has been paying dearly for ever since. The whole thing was a disaster, of course, but one extremely important and good thing came out of it all; Anita Hill’s brave testimony of enduring some really ugly sexual harassment at Thomas’s hands ignited a public conversation about sexual harassment. And while we have a long, long way to go on this issue—-most women endure sexual harassment, often on a regular basis still—-the idea that sexual harassment is wrong has really taken hold in a way that simply wasn’t true in 1991. It’s an important first step.

This is somewhat true and somewhat false. Sexual harassment had been exposited as a theory by Catherine MacKinnon, who was by any definition a radical feminist in the 1980’s, and thus had been dismissed as nothing more than “political correctness” by much of the mainstream. In other words, workplace rules that said you couldn’t talk about affirmative action in front of minorities, or that you couldn’t tell an ethnic joke, were grouped together with workplace rules that prohibited men from poisoning the work environment for women. So in that sense Anita Hill definitely moved things forward.

On the other hand, I’m not convinced we wouldn’t have moved forward anyway. Meritor Savings Bank v. Vinson was decided by the Supreme Court in 1986(!), was unanimous(!!), was written by REHNQUIST(!!!), and was the rare example of a Supreme Court decision that got ahead of the societal curve, recognizing that sexual harassment violated Title VII at a time when it was an exotic legal theory. Meritor certainly changed the attitudes of HR departments all over the country. And I don’t think that change needed an Anita Hill figure to proceed.

The one other thing I remember about Thomas and Hill is that if you just watch the congressional testimony, it actually did present itself as a he-said/she-said issue. It wasn’t really until Jill Abramson (recently named New York Times executive editor) and Jane Meyer came out with “Strange Justice” that we really learned of all the corroborating evidence out there that impeached Thomas and was never presented to the committee.

Comment #6: Dilan Esper  on  10/25  at  07:15 PM

I remember “you just don’t get it” became a catch phrase for women to describe the frustration of dealing with men who just didn’t get it.

Comment #7: DonnaDiva  on  10/25  at  07:21 PM

I experienced sexual harassment before the term was coined, but knew it was wrong from the gitgo.

Starting with the men who tried to corner me in public places when I was as young as 12 in the earlr ‘60s(even scarier since I looked younger, so I knew those men believed it was a child they were trying to intimidate.)

But it just. wasn’t. talked. about.

However, at least in school we girls were reasonably safe: when the boys began a wave of sexual harassment in junior high, they got taken aside with enough stern enough warnings, that ended that through high school, a bow to loco parentis, in the day.

In my first professional job at 21, my editor gave me a choice: have sex with him or be fired. I refused the first, and he backed down. But there was no one to whom I could have complained if he’d followed through.

Also: at a later temp jobs an old coot insisted on giving me a neck rub. But when I refused to return to that job the agency owners blustered, “Most of the girls love it!” Yeah, which is why you have to keep sending in different temps.

I also went straight to my boss when, while working at a federal museum, our onsite FBI asshole used the excuse of “tickling” as a means to get his hands on me.

However, even in 1972 the federal government frowned on what hadn’t been yet termed sexual harassment. “I didn’t take this job to be felt up by the FBI,” was the way I put it then, and it was enough to get someone to tell junior G man to leave me the hell alone. If not get him officially reprimanded.

I was also involved with NOW in the early ‘70s (their media committee) and sexual harassment was one of the topics ongoing in feminist circles, even if the term hadn’t yet been coined.

So by the time Anita Hill was testifying I definitely heard the ring of truth. Hill may have lost that battle (and the country certainly lost with the appointment of Thomas) but I believe that was a galvinizing situation for public opinion on sexual harassment.

 

 

Comment #8: judybrowni  on  10/25  at  07:48 PM

Ah, the troll pokes his ugly head up from beneath the bridge.

If I knew Dark’s real name I’d be googling it every now and then to catch the inevitable lawsuit, firing for cause, or arrest.

Yes, bubbie, there is something we can do about it, ignore that at your own peril.

Comment #9: judybrowni  on  10/25  at  07:58 PM

I remember being at the annual ABA convention (our family’s big summer vacation) in San Francisco after the Anita Hill hearings, and suddenly there were all sorts of talks and lectures surrounding what was and was not admissible. I remember heading through the lobby on my way out to see the city and passing a sign that had been set up outside of one of the hotel’s conference rooms.

“SEXUAL HARASSMENT HAS BEEN MOVED TO THE GRAND BALLROOM.”

I stole that sign.

I still have it.

Comment #10: Mighty Ponygirl  on  10/25  at  08:10 PM

Oh please, give me your real name!

It would be so much more fun (for me) when you’re led off in handcuffs, or shot down by your abused wife.

Comment #11: judybrowni  on  10/25  at  08:11 PM

Soft Helmet, thanks for demonstrating what an idiot you are.

Comment #12: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  10/25  at  08:13 PM

Eh, I give him a 4 for execution. Considering he’s named himself after the buffoonish antagonist of Space Balls, I’m not yet ruling out parody troll.

Comment #13: Mighty Ponygirl  on  10/25  at  08:19 PM

By the way, the boss who threatened to fire me if I didn’t have sex with him: last I heard he did end up in jail.

Comment #14: judybrowni  on  10/25  at  08:23 PM

“Soft Helmet, thanks for demonstrating what an idiot you are.”

After writing a couple entries in his MRA blog this morning, he picked up his state disability check and headed for the child custody hearing, where he’s trying to get his kids away from his shrewish ex-wife (even though he hates his kids, he can’t let that bitch keep them away from him), and while on his way to the LiberTeaBircher meeting this evening (where they will spend several hours coming up with new ways to compare President Obama to Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, all the while drinking Budweiser’s finest), he decided to drop by ol’ Pandagon and take a dump into our punchbowl.  We’re really blessed to have him share himself like that…

Comment #15: MikeEss  on  10/25  at  08:25 PM

Enjoy your time behind bars, Helmet.

Where, from what I’ve read, they haven’t yet been able to curb murder, assault or rape.

Comment #16: judybrowni  on  10/25  at  08:27 PM

Please be sure to follow that idiot logic in your own life, Helmet: don’t be a coward and go whining to the police if you’re robbed or assaulted.

Comment #17: judybrowni  on  10/25  at  08:29 PM

If anything the patriarchy suffered a massive blow simply by being able to consider sexual harassment sexual harassment.  I think about the affairs that started before about 1970 and wonder how many of them were started out of a power position and how many were desired by both parties.  If the woman is of little power and the man great, why bother to have an affair? It’s practically concubine-ship.  Women like Anita Hill though still keep quiet in their male-dominated world and I wonder why, what would possess them to desire a relationship like that?  Then again I wonder why would Hill as a black woman even be a conservative and support Thomas in his destruction of Marshall’s legacy.  The whole concept to me is topsy-turvy.

Comment #18: Xeranar  on  10/25  at  08:37 PM

Funny, but I’ve never spent time behind bars: sexual harassment boss did.

The rate of incarceration is higher for men than women, so even if we were only going by odds, you’d be there.

More men are also murdered than women, and, if memory serves, more statistically the victims of crime. They also die earlier.

So you’ll be behind bars, or dead, long before I am.

Comment #19: judybrowni  on  10/25  at  08:39 PM

But it was, along with Hill’s mendacity, an article of faith in my community that I was ugly and probably a lesbian and no one male could ever actually want to defile themselves by liking me.

I’m so sorry.

When the hearings started, I’d just got back from two years working in an impoverished tropical African country. The Midwest I’d grown up in seemed like a freezing tundrascape full of fat white people and bright, nearly empty cars, so I stayed in and watched a lot of TV. The hearings were perfectly surreal—the most powerful nation on earth ruled by bumbling fools whose middle-aged blood clearly rose at the chance to ask a yuppie black woman about pubic hair. Biden seemed like the only real human being of the bunch.

But it really was presented as a he-said/she-said, like Dilan at #6 said. Most of the people I knew viewed her as significantly more persuasive than him, but this was a college town. And there was just no real evidence that proved her case: too many were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and most of the rest of us couldn’t be 100% certain. Different times. Today, there’d be webcam photos and we’d all have already been linked to a summary of the earlier investigations. And most people would probably still give Thomas the benefit of the doubt.

Comment #20: felagund  on  10/25  at  08:40 PM

“In the United States, men are much more likely to be incarcerated than women. Nearly 9 times as many men (5,037,000) as women (581,000) had ever at one time been incarcerated in a State or Federal prison at year end 2001.

In 2004, males were almost 10 times more likely than females to commit murder. Men are also far more likely than women to be the victims of violent crime, with the exception of rape,” but of course the odds of you being raped would become more likely when you’re in prison, Dark Helmet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_and_crime

Comment #21: judybrowni  on  10/25  at  08:50 PM

Dark Helmet, middle school taunts don’t equal evidence, none of which you’re clever enough to find to back up your assertions.

“In the United States, men are much more likely to be incarcerated than women. Nearly 9 times as many men (5,037,000) as women (581,000) had ever at one time been incarcerated in a State or Federal prison at year end 2001.

In 2004, males were almost 10 times more likely than females to commit murder. Men are also far more likely than women to be the victims of violent crime, with the exception of rape.[2]” but the odds on you being raped will go up when you’re imprisoned, of course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_and_crime

By the by, “criminals” are those who break the law,by definition, laws which include those for harassment and rape.

Enjoy the graybar hotel.

Comment #22: judybrowni  on  10/25  at  08:56 PM

I remember being at the annual ABA convention (our family’s big summer vacation) in San Francisco after the Anita Hill hearings, and suddenly there were all sorts of talks and lectures surrounding what was and was not admissible.

@mighty ponygirl

If you were a sailor or Marine at the time (I was a Marine), we also were subject to several lectures on sexual harassment.  However, for us it wasn’t so much Anita Hill as it was Tailhook.  I remember that at the time I resented the lectures because I felt that they were a reaction to the actions of a bunch of drunk, Navy flyboys who thought they were still living in a frat.  I felt at the time that I didn’t need to be told not to be an asshole. 

Still, I hope they did some good.  At least it wasn’t as bad as when the chaplain showed us a video that was straight out of “Way of the Master”, complete with denial of the effectiveness of condoms.  Oy!

Comment #23: prufrock  on  10/25  at  09:03 PM

Have we confirmed that DH isn’t Amanda trolling her own post?  No real person could be that blatantly stupid.

Comment #24: bomberE  on  10/25  at  09:10 PM

There’s a possibility you believe you’re writing satire. But having made my living in the professional comedy field for more than a couple decades, if you’re under that delusion, I’m have to tell you that it’s unlikely you’ll ever pick up one of those paychecks.

The Onion ain’t hiring you, that’s for sure.

If you’re attempt is just to annoy, you may have accomplished that. But there are few paydays for annoyance.

Anything more dark, and you’re on the path to arrest, or bloody headlines.

Good luck in future endeavors, you’ll need it.

Comment #25: judybrowni  on  10/25  at  09:11 PM

Sexual Harassment like just about everything else in society is politicized.  How many people who believed and defended Anita Hill had similar reactions to Paula Jones’ allegations?  How many of them were quick to dismiss that because it was trumpted by those they disagree with politically?

The opposite is of course true, how many conservatives who dismissed Hill’s testimony thought that Jones’ testimony was Gospel truth and Clinton’s perjury disqualified him from public office? 

People’s likelihood to believe or disbelieve an allegation or excuse misconduct is directly related to their political outlook.

 

Comment #26: Brian7  on  10/25  at  09:18 PM

Please no feeding!

Comment #27: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/25  at  09:37 PM

Seriously, Do Not Feed The Trolls.  This also means you.

Comment #28: Punditus Maximus  on  10/25  at  09:47 PM

I can’t believe I never appreciated Sonic Youth when I was a kid. Oh well. I blame my parents and their folked-up taste in music. Buying a Red Hot Chili Peppers album feels mighty subversive when all you’ve ever listened to up til then is Irish fiddle music and mainstream classic rock.

Comment #29: SallyStrange  on  10/25  at  10:00 PM

I was a freshman in high school, also 14, in San Francisco when this happened. I remember that the pubic hair on the coke became the big story. Among my peers and many adults it seemed many blamed Anita for not being able to take a fucking joke.

I also remember that at around that time 2 things happened that helped me turn to feminism. The first was that I saw an interview where a white woman representing some Republican women’s group actually said that Thomas worked for her husband and since he never harassed her he couldn’t have sexually harassed Hill. Even though I had trouble verbalizing it I understood white privilege existed. I couldn’t believe this woman couldn’t understand that a man might treat his boss’s white wife differently than a black subordinate woman.

Then at about this same time, while leaving a school assembly, a guy reached over and grabbed my friend’s ass, made a disgusting comment then started to walk away like it was nothing. I lost my shit. I started yelling at the guy so loudly that I finally drew the attention of a few teachers. I will always be sorry I embarrassed my friend with my actions but I’ll never be sorry that I got to see that the authority figures did not know how to deal with the incident. The male student never even denied what he did but I was told to let it go and that if it happened again there were better ways to deal with it. Of course no one told me what those better ways were. And sexual harassment was never mentioned.

I got a reputation among my peers as a screaming “feminazi” even though I was still at the phase where I would preface statements with, “I’m not a feminist but…” I was really ashamed and embarrassed until girls started slowly coming to me to tell me their own sexual harassment stories. That’s when I stopped being one of the, “I’m not saying she deserved it but..” crowd and started believing other girls and women when they spoke up about being sexually harassed or abused.

Comment #30: shakahi  on  10/25  at  10:09 PM

I remember that the university I went to had a guest lecturer in their ‘imported entertainment for students’ series talk about it.

It really didn’t seem relevant, but in retrospect, it could have been very so.  Just the university I was going to was pretty rarified - nearly no jock or self-entitled sorts… Or women - so it just wasn’t something that happened there often.

Comment #31: Crissa  on  10/25  at  10:44 PM

I was in my early 20’s and living in Alexandria, Virginia where this story was local news. I actually had Mrs. Thomas as a customer as I believe Clarence Thomas was on the DC or Eastern District of Virginia Federal Court at the time. Virginia Thomas was one weird lady. I totally believe the phone message story. She want to buy product on institutional invoices. We didn’t want to do that, but caved in. Found out later she didn’t pay up. My boss gave me her phone number and instructed me to call her once a night when I worked a closing shift.

A few of my black friends at the time were totally against Clarence Thomas. They saw it all in the demographics. Thomas sold himself out by marrying a lower status white woman and then harassed younger high status black women. And it wasn’t just Anita.

Sonic Youth rocks! Seldom saw their vids as I had no TV back then. I knew them from limited airplay on WHFS and mix tapes in the late eighties. Always figured they were young. Didn’t know Thurston was the same age as my youngest aunt and Kim Gordon was well old enough to be my mother until much later. But hey, “Sonic Youth” is a better band name than “Sonic Seasoned Band Veterans Almost of Your Parents’ Generation One of Whom could be Your Mom”.

I BELIEVE ANITA HILL. I always have.

Comment #32: Bacopa  on  10/25  at  11:02 PM

Clarence Thomas had a history of harassing women and there were two others waiting to testify to that fact—-and to the fact that Hill reported the harassment to them, in shock, nearly immediately after it happened, when it happened.

When I heard about the real story of Thomas’ sister and the the way he lied about her in public——as well as refusing to help her——that was it for me. One has to wonder how fucked up his wife is.  At least they can’t ruin another pair of people.

Comment #33: ginmar  on  10/25  at  11:28 PM

I was 30 when all this cae down, mourning the death of my SO, thinking I was glad she didn’t live to see this.

I recall George Bush claiming Thomas was the “best qualified” person he could find to nominate to the court.  A few years later, one of my friends who is extremely conservative Republican told me that description of Thomas is why she didn’t support Bush’s re-election and why she voted for Clinton in 1992.

One good thing I remember:  Representative Barbara Boxer leading the Congressional Women’s Caucus to challenge the Thomas nomination.  That is probably why she is a senator today.

Comment #34: James  on  10/26  at  12:15 AM

I’ve gotta admit, I don’t understand the mindset of the trolls Amanda gets here. I mean, I’m a antisocial shut-in, but even I have better things to do than troll people who disagree with me.

Comment #35: progrocker  on  10/26  at  12:20 AM

I believe Anita Hill.

Comment #36: Punditus Maximus  on  10/26  at  01:01 AM

I was 9 and I believed her.  My reason for believing her wasn’t particularly mature:  I understood that she was under oath, and I knew that You Couldn’t Lie when you were under oath, so therefore she wasn’t lying. 

My mother didn’t believe her, but I remember disagreeing with that.  If she Couldn’t Lie under oath without getting punished, then there must be some proof that she was lying.  Why would everyone claim she was lying and then not punish her for it?

Come to think of it, as immature as this line of reasoning might be according to Kohlberg, it still makes a lot of sense.

Comment #37: stubbles  on  10/26  at  01:41 AM

@Comment #31: Emmett on 10/25 at 09:10 PM

Have we confirmed that DH isn’t Amanda trolling her own post?  No real person could be that blatantly stupid.

First imagine a person of average intelligence. Got one? Good. Now imagine how dumb they can be. Then, consider that half the population is dumber than that.

Comment #38: atheist  on  10/26  at  07:24 AM

@Comment #41: James on 10/26 at 12:15 AM

One good thing I remember:  Representative Barbara Boxer leading the Congressional Women’s Caucus to challenge the Thomas nomination.  That is probably why she is a senator today.

Yeah, I <3 Boxer.

Comment #39: atheist  on  10/26  at  07:33 AM

Why would everyone claim she was lying and then not punish her for it?

That’s really the heart of it.

It’s not about what people believe; it’s about what they wish were true, and what they want others to think they believe. If enough people “believe” something, it might just become true.

Comment #40: junk science  on  10/26  at  09:24 AM

When I heard about the real story of Thomas’ sister and the the way he lied about her in public——as well as refusing to help her——that was it for me.

The late, great Steve Gilliard brought this up often.  Thomas claimed his sister was a typical lazy welfare case, when she actually quit her job to care for their ailing mother.  He happily threw her under the bus without flinching, catering to the Right’s stereotypes of shiftless minorities to make himself look good in contrast.

Comment #41: Sour Kraut  on  10/26  at  09:52 AM

I was twelve at the time this happened.  I remember the reaction to Anita Hill in my small town school as being that she was a liar who was making a big deal out of nothing.  And that’s how they treated any girl or woman who said anything about being harassed by a boy. “You’re making a fuss for no reason, just ignore him.”  That was the common sentiment I heard whenever I complained.  It’s sad that it had to be like that and still is for so many women.

I didn’t know what to believe back then, I always looked to my parents for answers because I was so unsure of what was right or wrong. At least, that’s what I told myself.  I may not have really thought about who was telling the truth during that trial, but when I think on it, all I can remember is that it did not seem like Anita Hill was lying.  So I want to think I believed her, but I fear it more likely I simply hoped she was able to get away from the scrutiny and continue her life, better off without Thomas as her boss.  I certainly believe her now, whatever that’s worth.

Comment #42: Timid Atheist  on  10/26  at  09:53 AM

js @ 40 - yeah, and that’s another idea that is totally fucked up.  Believeing in Santa and the Tooth fairy, no matter how many people believe, doesn’t make them any more or less real.  Ditto gravity, momentum, friction, combustion, or harassment.

Comment #43: helen w. h.  on  10/26  at  10:02 AM

I was a young poli-sci student during this time; it was unfortunate that it ever got to the level of turning the Senate Judiciary Committee into a tone-deaf, fumbling adjudicator of eight-year-old sexual harassment claims, when Thomas should have been clearly rejected for being an idea-less, experience-less Trojan horse Bork-style reactionary long before Anita was called to testified.

Comment #44: norbizness  on  10/26  at  10:05 AM

Judge Thomas has ideas, they’re just authentic frontier gibberish radical rightist Roosevelt ruined everything crazyness. I tend to respect him for than the Scalias of the world just for that. Thomas actually walk the crazy walk that Scalia would like us to believe he walks. And for Thomas’ life story. He’s obviously a terrible person, but he’s a pretty interesting one.

Comment #45: witless chum  on  10/26  at  10:26 AM

I remember watching the Thomas hearings, and my most drop-jawed shock happened after Thomas himself put on his Angry costume and yelled at the committee. To see all of ‘em, to a man (heaven forfend there were any women on the committee!), dissolve into trembling, pearl-clutching, please-don’t-be-mad-at-us-we’ll-confirm-you-we-really-really-will-honest ninnies right before my eyes and in the span of, like, a half an hour was boggling. I remember yelling at the tv: Seriously? You guys are buying this fake umbrage? Are you stupid?  Spineless weenies.

Comment #46: benvolio  on  10/26  at  11:19 AM

Anita Hill started a conversation that needed to be had.  I remember that I believed her, because who would lie about such embarrassing stuff in public?  I couldn’t imagine saying the words “pubic hair” out loud, let alone in front of a bunch of men.  Plus, I knew guys like that—they totally got a kick out of saying or doing something sexual to embarrass and humiliate girls, and if you got angry, they made fun of you for not being able to take a joke.  And I felt somehow validated that there was a grown woman who was angry and who didn’t think it was a joke. 

And Thomas is still angry about it—he has got to be the most bitter man I’ve ever seen.  He truly believes he was the victim.

Comment #47: Kit-Kat  on  10/26  at  11:48 AM

Judybrowni,

Please know that have a lot of respect for you, and i don’t think you mean to be hurtful here. But—if you must taunt the troll—PLEASE don’t do it by making light of prison rape. Prison rape is a terrible thing, just like any kind of rape, and it’s not something ANYONE should be threatened with or have to consider as “normal”. Even if they’re being complete and total assholes. Even if they’re Bad People.

I don’t comment very often, but i have to speak up on this one, because it’s a serious issue for me. Thanks for listening.

Comment #48: Adrienne L. Travis  on  10/26  at  12:47 PM

Adrienne, I think that was a direct response to something the troll said.  Seeing as I didn’t see it, and was hear before you, you don’t know how bad the item being responded to was (nor how exactly it brought up rape, though clearly it did and likely suggested that Judy should/would be its recipient).

Comment #49: helen w. h.  on  10/26  at  01:12 PM

And I felt somehow validated that there was a grown woman who was angry and who didn’t think it was a joke.

THIS EXACTLY!  As the hearings showed as well as my experience to that point (I was 11 or 12) was that if you brought up sexual harassment, everyone made it YOUR problem while letting the harasser skate.  You were “oversensitive”, you “misinterpreted”, he was “JUST JOKING, GAH LIGHTEN UP!” or my personal favorite (NOT) “well, what were you doing/saying/wearing?”.  Anita taught me I could stand up for myself and it was okay to do so.

I believed Anita.  Still do.

 

Comment #50: Pockysmama  on  10/26  at  02:11 PM

But it was, along with Hill’s mendacity, an article of faith in my community that I was ugly and probably a lesbian and no one male could ever actually want to defile themselves by liking me.

Kind of like how at least a quarter of the sexual harassment I’ve experienced over the years has been to inform me just how fucking hideous I supposedly am.  And not just as a retort to my supposed rejection of the harasser.  I’m talking straight out of the gate, “You’re fucking ugly.  Die in a fire.”  It doesn’t take too long to figure out that it’s all about putting women in our place, informing us that nothing matters other than our looks, and that, no matter how hard we try, our self-worth should always just boil down to what some mouth-breathing asshole thinks.

Comment #51: keshmeshi  on  10/26  at  03:48 PM

I was thirteen; I believed Anita Hill, and still do.  I think about it every time his name comes up on the news.

Comment #52: A.  on  10/26  at  06:09 PM

Keshmeshi-have you noticed that “your ugly, so fuck off and die” and “you are rape-ably hot” comments are said in the exact same tone? If you didn’t speak english you would never know that some were supposedly compliments.

Comment #53: alysia  on  10/26  at  08:57 PM

I will always be sorry I embarrassed my friend with my actions but I’ll never be sorry that I got to see that the authority figures did not know how to deal with the incident. The male student never even denied what he did but I was told to let it go and that if it happened again there were better ways to deal with it. Of course no one told me what those better ways were.

This. I was at a university that was sued for discrimination for not having an effective policy to handle sexual harassment—they had a policy, but it was pretty much “complain to your harasser’s colleagues, or, if he’s highly placed, to his subordinates; they will conduct an investigation using whatever standards they see fit, and unless they decide to terminate the harasser and the entire rest of the faculty and administration go along with their decision, the harasser may still be in a position to decide your academic future.” The policy wasn’t really any good for the harassers either, some of who were just dweebs in positions of power who could have been redeemed.

(And from all reports, in 30 years things have gotten somewhat—somewhat—better)

Comment #54: paul  on  10/26  at  09:21 PM

At the time of the hearings I had just worked for a company where sexual harassment was not at all uncommon. There was a lot of similar “funny” behavior in the office.  Having been a feminist since I was a teen, I knew it was wrong, but I put up with most of it because it was my first “real” job.  Eventually I reported one incident.  I was soon out of a job. 

So Anita Hill’s experience was not only believable, but depressingly familiar, from the event itself to the disbelief to the punishment handed out to her.

Comment #55: oldfeminist  on  10/26  at  10:13 PM

A few of my black friends at the time were totally against Clarence Thomas. They saw it all in the demographics. Thomas sold himself out by marrying a lower status white woman and then harassed younger high status black women. And it wasn’t just Anita.
Comment #32: Bacopa on 10/25 at 11:02 PM

Okay, the whole idea that ambitious Black men marry “lower status” white women?  Insulting to both sides.

Plus Virginia Lamp Thomas grew up in an upper middle class GOP family and is a lawyer.

Comment #56: oldfeminist  on  10/27  at  11:03 AM

I missed most of the Anita Hill hearings as I was in the middle of struggling to keep my neck above academic water and my family was in the midst of the worst parts of our financial difficulties during those years.  Heard bits and pieces about it from teachers and high school classmates, but didn’t feel I had enough information one way or another. 

It was only later in college that I read enough to realize what an ass Clarence Thomas was and how Anita Hill wasn’t the only women he harassed. 

Plus Virginia Lamp Thomas grew up in an upper middle class GOP family and is a lawyer.

There are many people who do not define superior socio-economic status on the basis of income, wealth, and/or occupation.  One could be upper-middle class socio-economically and a lawyer and yet, still be regarded as low status because those markers don’t necessarily matter/aren’t enough to the beholder. 

Just decided to bring that up as I know of many people….including some Americans who’d laugh at the notion that being upper-middle class socio-economically and/or a lawyer was enough to confer middle/high social status.  Sometimes, the status of being “White Trash” or an “inner-city hoodlum” follows you even if you make it into the highest echelons of wealth, social circles,  and/or profession. 

Also, lawyers aren’t always considered a high status occupation depending on the type of practice/clients they have and the beholders evaluating them. 

After all, popular perceptions of greedy corporate lawyers working at the expense of the larger public good don’t arise out of a vacuum.

Comment #57: exholt  on  10/28  at  03:24 PM
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