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Next entry: McCain Supporters For McCain! Previous entry: Today’s Tautology Minute

Anti-choice loonies try to put a wrench in the DNCC

I’m feeling very positive about Obama’s chances of winning this week.  Why?  Because I don’t think I’ve ever seen these levels of right wing desperation.  Completely unable to make a case for McCain or against Obama with the public, the wingers are flailing around trying to grab onto any wedge issue they can.  Because the one thing the right wing noise machine has turned into an art is exploiting people’s resentments and turning them against each other.  The PUMA thing is a classic example, and sadly, some morons are falling for it. 

But this post is about how the right wingers seem to be screaming, “LOOK FETUSES” in a desperate, last minute attempt to get people on their side.  The anti-choice nuts have descended on Denver and are demanding that the Democratic party revoke the citizenship rights of half the population and turn ownership of their bodies over to a cadre of misogynist right wingers.  I suspect they’ll fail in this stated mission, and I suspect they know that, too.  So what are they trying to accomplish by making asses out of themselves?

Mostly, it’s a distraction.  One thread that’s interesting is how they’re picking their targets for abuse.  The African-American Caucus was targeted for disruption, as was the interfaith prayer service.  In other words, they’re targeting black delegates and religious delegates for abuse, though I have little doubt that they think they’re “educating” people by yelling at them.  As if there’s a single person in America who is unaware of the parameters of this discussion.  Which goes to show that the targets of anti-choice protests are assumed to be especially stupid by anti-choicers.  Why black people and religious people especially?  There’s a host of complex reasons, but it boils down to this—-anti-choicers feel like they are entitled to dominate and control those two groups of people, as well as women.  (Yes, I’m aware there’s significant overlap between these three groups, but that just makes it worse.  If you’re a black Christian woman, they probably think they get to set your alarm clock for you and monitor your underwear purchases.) 

Michelle Malkin especially thinks that you are stupid.  Her entire career is built on exploiting racist anxieties in white people and she trucks with white supremacists, but all of a sudden she expects you to think she’s a great spokeswoman for racial harmony.  She’s so against abortion she sucked up her nerve and spoke to actual non-white anti-choice protesters to bolster the bizarre claims of anti-choicers that reproductive rights especially hurt women of color.  Considering that black and Hispanic women use abortion just like white women, I’m hard-pressed to understand why it would somehow be better for these women would be better off being sent to back alley butchers.  The slim bit of evidence that anti-choicers cling to in these assertions is the fact that black women have a disproportionate number of abortions—-so the conclusion is that Planned Parenthood is out to get black people.  Renee puts this assumption to bed.

imply because a planned parenthood centre is in a particular neighbourhood, does not make it more likely for a woman to have an abortion.  First a woman must have her birth control fail, or engage in unprotected sex to become pregnant.  She must then make the decision as to whether or not to have the baby, put the child up for adoption, or have an abortion.  What this means is that a woman is actively deciding to walk into a centre.  Those that work for planned parenthood do not troll the streets looking for pregnant women on which to perform an abortion.  They do not tie women down and force them to submit to a procedure to which they are not desirous of.  Too claim that positioning of the centres are a major factor in the decision making process, subverts the degree to which African American women are in possession of agency and autonomy. Does she believe that we are so easily swayed that merely upon seeing a clinic we would be persuaded to make a life altering decision like having an abortion?

The anti-choice assumption is that women get abortions because they are stupid, full stop.  That if they knew better, then they would never do it.  Extrapolating out from that assumption, then, the whole “black genocide” argument means that anti-choicers think that black women are especially stupid.  Which is, of course, why Michelle Malkin is riding this train.  It’s not because she opposes racism, but because she fucking wallows in it.  Why do black women have more abortions than white women?  Well, you could, you know, look into it.  Black women are more likely to live in poverty, and living in poverty is a huge risk factor for unintended pregnancy.  In addition, when women in abortion clinics are surveyed, most say that they can’t afford a child or have too many responsibilities right now to add another one.  As far as I know, the incidence of women answering, “I’m too fucking stupid to know better” is near zero.

The big Planned Parenthood in Denver was built not to exploit the city’s residents, but because Planned Parenthood is trying to raise the level of service that patients get.  They’re a non-profit, and so hard times in the past meant that their service levels were lower than they’d like to offer.  But nowadays, they have a lot more money through strategic management of funds, and they chose to use that extra money to build really nice centers so that lower income women that come to them are getting the same level of service as women who can afford private doctors. 

But no matter.  The point of all these exercises, I do believe, is to distract people from the issue that they’re likely to vote on—-the economy and the war—-which would put them firmly in the Obama camp.  It’s about trying to put a wrench in the Obama campaign, not to actually convince anyone.  And from that sense, I think the wingers are going to fail.  They don’t have enough bodies and energy to really do any major damage at the DNCC.  They can, at best, piss people off and eat up dozens of minutes of their time.  But seriously, who do they think they’re going to chip off by crashing caucuses?  I’m inclined to think that if your caucus is interrupted, most people’s first reaction is to resent the interrupter. 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:55 AM • (75) Comments

“Completely unable to make a case for McCain or against Obama with the public”

That’s a pretty untrue statement given that this race is a dead heat and that Obama should be winning by double digits in a crappy economy with an unpopular war pinned to his opponent. 

The crazy left wingers have been planning disruption activities here in MN for the Republican Convention for months.  It’s in the paper amost every day.  It’s not that right wing or left wing people are crazy and desperate.  It’s that crazy desperate people are crazy and desperate - regardless of party affiliation.

Comment #1: Dr T  on  08/26  at  12:05 PM

Dr. T, that a lot of voters are racists or stupid doesn’t mean that McCain has really made a case for himself.  If the Republicans win, it’ll be through these tactics, just distractions, lies, paranoia, and bullshit until the end.

Comment #2: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/26  at  12:12 PM

Yeah, it could never be because more people believe in his platform or that he’ll do a better job.  If your wins America is reborn and the American people are inspired anew and have woken up to the sweet smelling future and if he loses they are racists lemmings.

Comment #3: Dr T  on  08/26  at  12:20 PM

Dr T, the race is close mainly because the MSM, for various self-serving reasons, has been portraying it that way. If you want to give credit for this situation, don’t assign it to the one-note and semi-competent McCain campaign and its unappealing candidate.

In any case, I’m not sure what these protestors are trying to accomplish. While I’d disagree that there’s a not single person in America who is unaware of the parameters of the abortion discussion, I would agree that the vast majority of convention delegates are quite aware of it. I guess in the end it’s a publicity stunt to “prove” that Teh Abortionz and Teh Gayz still appeal to the Know-Nothings.

Comment #4: Gracchus  on  08/26  at  12:24 PM

You know, I have a long list of things to do, and coddling stupid people who argue in bad faith isn’t one of them.  If psychologists could just figure out not only what’s wrong with right wingers, but how to fix it, I’d personally give 10% of my annual income to the research.

Comment #5: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/26  at  12:25 PM

I’m in for 15%.

Comment #6: paradox  on  08/26  at  12:39 PM

I’m inclined to think that if your caucus is interrupted, most people’s first reaction is to resent the interrupter.

Yeah, but you’re talking about people who thought that Iraq would greet our bombers and invading soldiers with flowers and candy. Other people are mistakes to be corrected. “How would you feel in that person’s shoes?” is literally not a question they ask.

Comment #7: Rick Massimo  on  08/26  at  12:40 PM

You are tragically misguided.

The image accompanying your post is of an adjustable wrench; the wrench traditionally “thrown into the works” to disrupt machinery is a monkey wrench, which looks like this.

Yet another sign of your elitism and detachment from the working class.

<strike>Bill Kristol</strike> <strike>John McCain</strike> <strike>Tim Russert</strike> Tim Russert’s dad would never have made this mistake.

Comment #8: FearItself  on  08/26  at  01:21 PM

The PUMA thing is a classic example, and sadly, some morons are falling for it.

The PUMA thing was pretty much all the commentators on the convention speeches last night wanted to talk about.  And I was watching it on PBS, which tends to be pretty neutral or even liberal leaning.

Comment #9: The Opoponax  on  08/26  at  01:27 PM

Why black people and religious people especially? There’s a host of complex reasons, but it boils down to this—-anti-choicers feel like they are entitled to dominate and control those two groups of people, as well as women.

Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s because they think they have more support in those groups, and believe they can somehow make people who support the Democrats for other reasons (‘cause you know, all black people and religious people are anti-choice) uncomfortable with doing so because of the abortion issue.

Personally, I hope they continue targeting those groups. One of the plausible theories from the Webb/Allen senate race in ‘06 was that the GOP had put a heinous “marriage amendment” on the ballot, and used it to target religious African-Americans, believing that if they could bring them out to vote for it when the Democrats opposed it, they might pick up some votes for their candidate. There’s some evidence that black voters came out in higher numbers than usual, voted for the amendment, and (not surprisingly to anyone with a brain) voted for Webb.

So anything the fundies do to motivate black voters and religious Democrats is just fine with me!

Comment #10: Redshift  on  08/26  at  01:35 PM

Considering that black and Hispanic women use abortion just like white women, I’m hard-pressed to understand why it would somehow be better for these women would be better off being sent to back alley butchers.

I think the traditional understanding, from some people of color, was once that, while white women were urged to reproduce copiously at all costs, women of color were often encouraged not to have children, in some cases (especially for Native American women) involving sterilization without consent.  The fear was that if white feminists worked too hard in favor of abortion, women of color would be encouraged or even forced to abort.  The major racial/ethnic liberation groups were anti-abortion because one of their common goals was to increase their various populations and thought that legal abortion would become a tool used by the white supremacist medical establishment against them.

Of course, that made a certain degree of sense back in 1972.  Nowadays it’s a really outdated idea, not least because if anything it’s probably harder for a Black, Latina, or Native American woman to get a safe, legal, and affordable abortion than for a white woman to do the same.

Comment #11: The Opoponax  on  08/26  at  01:40 PM

“You know, I have a long list of things to do”

It’s sad that logically analyzing this presidential race isn’t one of them.  I intend on voting for Obama and still think your analysis is bunk.

Comment #12: Dr T  on  08/26  at  01:44 PM

Opo—try CSPAN.  get to watch the convention, with NONE of the commentary.

Comment #13: rowmyboat  on  08/26  at  01:57 PM

“I’m feeling very positive about Obama’s chances of winning this week.  Why? “

Not sure how you feel positive about Obama winning win you look at ANY poll. He’s down 9 points since his prancing ninny European socialist tour. What was he thinking when he stood in front of cheering crowds of european leftists and bashed America? Hate to tell you but all us bitter Americans who make up the largest voting block didn’t appreciate his arrogance either in foreign pandering or in his delusional desire to raise a new tax on us every time he staggers in front of a camera.

I predict that Obama will lose by at least 9 points. It isn’t because of the choice issue either. At the end of the day most Americans support choice and that isn’t going to change the noise is just to create a wedge but it won’t change that Americans will not tolerate a lack of choice America is a center right country and choice is not going away.

What does “Change we can believe in” mean exactly? High taxes, driver’s licenses for illegal alien gangbangers, Reverend Wrong, Joe “Obama’s not ready to lead, and I stand by that statement” Biden, Obama’s long relationship and love affair with terrorist William Ayers, Obama’s endless race baiting and race card playing whenever he thinks he can get away with it. McCain duly called him down out held Obama accountable for that, Obama and Michelle love to play the race card and the American People are seeing that and find this objectionable.

The more Michelle Obama and Barak Hussein Obama talk the lower they fall in the polls.

Oh forgot I know how Obama wants to raise my taxes to pay for all his social programs because in his wife’s words; “America is a downright mean country she isn’t proud of.” I was wondering if I can send a personal check to help Obama’s brother out. Do you have the address? I mean his own brother lives in squalid poverty while Obama and Michelle made $4,000,000.00 last year and not one cent did he give to the brother he knew he had living on $1/month in Africa. Obama is just another lame example of a John Edwards/ Eliot Spitzer style Ultra Rich Ultra Leftist fraud.

Comment #14: SPQR_US  on  08/26  at  02:02 PM

250 Maverick Points for Reich_US!

Comment #15: Doug H. (Fausto no more)  on  08/26  at  02:14 PM

Rowmyboat - The main problem with me watching CSPAN is that I don’t have cable and am forced to deal with whichever of the major networks + PBS is carrying it.  Which, last night, was PBS. 

The only downside of which was David Brooks.  He’s PBS’s go-to conservative, though, so that was no surprise. 

Then I ended up tuning in to Charlie Rose, which was a post-speechifying convention roundtable with various journalists and democratic analyst type folks.  Most of whom were awesome, it’s just that they had Mark Halperin and this other annoying dood from ABC who really, really wanted to talk about the PUMAs. 

I especially liked Connie Schultz, who I’m otherwise not familiar with, who both identified straight up as a feminist and, when the PUMA bullshit came up, specifically said that she has been meeting with self-avowed feminists and attending events sponsored by NOW and the FMF, and she has seen both older and younger women there, and not noticed any particular lack of unity.  In fact she talked about being really impressed by the numbers of young feminists who turned out and the ability of all the women at these events to have sane and reasonable dialogue across generations.  Which, in my experience of NOW, is actually saying a lot, even outside of the Hillary/Barack divide.  There are a lot of generational issues in the big liberal/moderate feminist organizations, and they date to long before this election cycle.

The sense I got was that the journalists wanted to talk about PUMA issues because it’s a CONTROVERSY, wheee!  Or maybe because they’d been told to cover this issue by their editors (or whoever serves that function in broadcast and radio), or because they live in the bubble of journalism where they’re so used to hearing that this is a thing that they don’t even question whether or not it has legs anymore.  Whereas the political analysts and dem party consultants on the roundtable were debunking that this was an issue and talking about how, srsly, this is not even worth talking about, a cuddlefest compared to 1980, etc. 

The lesson, if anything, is probably to not bother keeping the TV on after the speeches are over.

Comment #16: The Opoponax  on  08/26  at  02:20 PM

250 Maverick Points for Reich_US!

Nah, the code words and obsession with race indicate he’s some form of Buchananite—a Know-Nothing of a different sort. McCain may give him points for being a useful fool, but SPQR_US is too “independent” to cash them in for GOP swag.

Comment #17: Gracchus  on  08/26  at  02:21 PM

The trolls are out in force today, I see.  I wonder how much McShame pays them?

Comment #18: Damian  on  08/26  at  02:22 PM

Wow.  That is truly amazing.  Did Sporkus just run off every single anti-Obama talking point in existence in one big, incoherent lump?  If not, it wasn’t for lack of trying, I’m sure.  Only one thing in that steaming dungheap that I really feel the need to respond to, and that’s this:

Not sure how you feel positive about Obama winning win you look at ANY poll.

This is how.  When all the polls are taken together, it adds up to this:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

Comment #19: Seraph  on  08/26  at  02:22 PM

You know, I have a long list of things to do, and coddling stupid people who argue in bad faith isn’t one of them. If psychologists could just figure out not only what’s wrong with right wingers, but how to fix it, I’d personally give 10% of my annual income to the research.

Amanda Marcotte

I don’t think that Dr. T is arguing in bad faith.  I think that you are loosing the argument.

Comment #20: Bismarck  on  08/26  at  02:23 PM

Oh forgot I know how Obama wants to raise my taxes to pay for all his social programs

You must be quite loaded, then, since middle class people like me actually do better under Obama’s plan than McCain’s.

The ultra-rich McCain’s tax plan will save him nearly $400K per year, while Obama’s plan will actually raise his own taxes by a significant amount.

Obama doesn’t want to raise my taxes. He wants to raise his own taxes and John McCain’s taxes and Dick Cheney’s taxes and Bill Gates’ taxes and Warren Buffet’s taxes. Which is fine by me, because those people can more easily spare it than I can.

On a related note, you complained in another thread that Pandagon posters called you names all the time. My unsolicited advice to you is, if you want that to stop, perhaps you should stop writing stupid things in these comment threads.

Comment #21: spencer  on  08/26  at  02:25 PM

Trolls AND sockpuppets are all out today.  Too bad I have to go to work.

Comment #22: Damian  on  08/26  at  02:31 PM

Hey guys, I have a BRILLIANT idea.

Let’s stop feeding the trolls.

I know I have been a serious troll feeder the last few days, but talking to them seems not only to not be making them go away, but it also seems to be derailing Every Single Thread.  Which is kind of a shame, because I would like to talk with the grownups about grownup things, rather than spending every day for the next 2 months rehashing the same stupid whisper campaign “talking points”.

Comment #23: The Opoponax  on  08/26  at  02:32 PM

Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s because they think they have more support in those groups,

Maybe, but I don’t think they distinguish between controlling and getting support from someone. Anti-choicers tend to divide pro-choicers into two groups—-those who know what abortion is and don’t care and those who are too stupid to know, so could be convinced, in theory, by bloody fetus pictures.  They tend to think you can tell who is in what group by class, race, and gender.  White, professional men are considered smart enough to know what abortion is and not care.  Women and racial minorities are assumed to be pro-choice out of stupidity.

Comment #24: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/26  at  02:49 PM

Also, the same with contraception.  It’s assumed that men who support contraception know the score and are exploiting women for sex (which women are assumed not to really want).  But women who use contraception are just misguided souls letting men use us for sex because, being women, we don’t know any better.

Comment #25: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/26  at  02:50 PM

OK, I suspected that the commenting would go south fast. The O has the right idea.

Really, is anyone surprised that the fetus people would be out protesting here? They have learned how to attract attention, and go anywhere they think has a camera pointed at them.

Comment #26: NancyP  on  08/26  at  02:55 PM

Let’s stop feeding the trolls.

But if we do that, how will I ever complete my Troll Bingo card?

Comment #27: Dweeze  on  08/26  at  03:03 PM

I’m feeling very positive about Obama’s chances of winning this week.

Oddly, so am I. I just think his chances of winning are pretty close to zero.

Comment #28: Sharon  on  08/26  at  03:10 PM

Having seen anti-choice assholes try to infiltrate a NOW convention I once attended, I have to say that I’ve stopped trying to see this as some sort of logical tactic.  That just grants them more rational thought than they could ever possibly be capable of. 

I’m pretty sure the only reason anti-choicers picket any known liberal enclave is that their overlords want to whip them into a fervor, and “sending them into battle against the libtards” is an easy way to accomplish that. 

In fact I’m pretty sure that one of the main tactics of the anti-choice right is to whip potential lackeys into a fervor.  That’s certainly how it was used by the local diocese that ran the catholic high school I attended. 

Though it’s interesting to look at why they infiltrated the caucuses they did—I’d guess it’s because they thought those were the caucuses that would do anything more than having them drummed out immediately.

~~~

OK, so I don’t know if this sound is coming from this site, my other tab which has twitter open, or some virus in my computer itself, but I keep getting sound effects from some big Hillary supporter rally at the DNC.  Anyone else getting that?

Comment #29: The Opoponax  on  08/26  at  03:11 PM

Oh forgot I know how Obama wants to raise my taxes to pay for all his social programs because in his wife’s words; “America is a downright mean country she isn’t proud of.”

SPQR_US on 08/26 at 01:02 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actually, that isn’t a direct quote from Michelle Obama, you blew it.

Maybe you should send your dollah$ to McCain.  Apparently he “really didn’t love America” until he was in his 30’s.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“McCain’s most recent formulation of “I really didn’t love America” came in March during a one-hour interview on Sean Hannity’s show on FOX News Channel. Here’s a transcript:

HANNITY: You spent two years of this five-and-a-half-year period in solitary confinement. What does that do to a person, to spend that much time in solitary confinement?

MCCAIN: I think it makes you a better person. Obviously, it makes you love America. I really didn’t love America until I was deprived of her company.?

Comment #30: Beast  on  08/26  at  03:13 PM

Oh.  Duh.  That huffington post thing up at the top of the page is responsible.  How annoying.

Comment #31: The Opoponax  on  08/26  at  03:13 PM

I don’t doubt that there are a number of extremist right wingers flowing to Denver with two simple game plans arising out of one simple action.

The simple action:  raise as much shit as possible.

Simple Plan No. 1: Play to their own base by showing videos which say, “See!  Look at the police beating us!  This is how the Democrats want to treat Christians / patriots / conservatives (etc.)!!!”

Simple Plan No. 2: Play to so-called Middle America by showing videos which say, “See!  Look at the chaos!  This is just like Chicago in ‘68!  The shiftless, America hating lefties never change!  They’re all about chaos and disorder and messes in the street!!!”

Am I being paranoid?  Cynical?  Or just merely wearyingly accurate??

Comment #32: seeker6079  on  08/26  at  03:18 PM

How much time did McCain spend in America before he deployed?  He was born in Panama and went with his family that followed his father, an Admiral, around to each new posting.  I don’t find it at all problematic that he might not appreciate what he had until he was in tough shit.

Comment #33: Ms Kate  on  08/26  at  03:24 PM

Wow.  That is truly amazing.  Did Sporkus just run off every single anti-Obama talking point in existence in one big, incoherent lump?

Yeah, if that’s all they got, McCain is going to lose big time, especially if he doesn’t stop with the Noun + Verb + POW.

Comment #34: keshmeshi  on  08/26  at  03:28 PM

Oddly, so am I. I just think his chances of winning are pretty close to zero.

That’s because you’re stupid. 

Check this again:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

The number of votes needed to win is 270.  Obama dipped below that number for the first time on August 20, after a month of GOP mudslinging, but now he’s got it back (convention surge, I know, but it can be built into something more lasting).  While you’re there, click on Previous Report.  You’ll notice that, despite a month of attack ads, at no point did McCain actually surpass Obama.  It came pretty close, but he just couldn’t close the gap. 

And don’t forget, all of those polls were made by calling landlines, which excludes those, like myself, who depend on our cell phones - a group that tends to be younger and more likely to vote for Obama.

Comment #35: Seraph  on  08/26  at  03:30 PM

I don’t find it at all problematic that he might not appreciate what he had until he was in tough shit.

I don’t find it at all problematic that anyone might not appreciate what they have until they don’t have it anymore.  I mean, forget noun + verb + POW, most people I know who have lived or traveled extensively in a “developing” country feel this way. 

My appreciation of the lifestyle I’m entitled to simply because I was born in the US was really cemented by spending a few months in a country that has about the level of governmental power to create social programs and enforce basic standards via policy that the wingnuts would like to create in the US by “shrinking the government”.  It only takes a couple or three conversations with people who are amazed that something like the FDA exists (or social security, or unemployment insurance, or a police force that is anything more than a gang of local thugs…) to force you to realize that America fricking rocks. 

That said, such a realization meant, for me, that I appreciated the liberal tradition of using government to put everyone in equal footing, NOT that I became a jingoistic asshole.  But I guess it takes all kinds.

Comment #36: The Opoponax  on  08/26  at  03:36 PM

It came pretty close, but he just couldn’t close the gap. 

He doesn’t have to. Greg Palast thinks the R’s vote rigging will give McCain about a 5% advantage, and I see no reason to doubt him.  Obama doesn’t just have to win, he has to win by a lot.

And don’t forget, all of those polls were made by calling landlines, which excludes those, like myself, who depend on our cell phones - a group that tends to be younger and more likely to vote for Obama.

True, but we’re also less likely to vote at all.

Comment #37: Ugly In Pink  on  08/26  at  03:44 PM

Echoing Opoponax, last time I was traveling abroad, my bus was flagged down and pulled over by the side of the highway by the police. They then boarded the bus and picked out a few passagers from whom the police demanded that they produce their “papers.”

Coming away from that, I (a) was thankful to live in America where that didn’t happen and (b) got really angry at the segments of the American public who wanted to bring that experience over here.

Since this experience is the sort of thing that the Republicans want to bring to America, I have to wonder if they really appreciate this country at all.

Comment #38: Tyro  on  08/26  at  03:45 PM

I especially liked Connie Schultz, who I’m otherwise not familiar with, who both identified straight up as a feminist and, when the PUMA bullshit came up, specifically said that she has been meeting with self-avowed feminists and attending events sponsored by NOW and the FMF, and she has seen both older and younger women there, and not noticed any particular lack of unity.

Connie’s a Pulitzer-writing columnist for the local fishwrap and Sherrod Brown’s wife.  She’s good candy.

Comment #39: Doug H. (Fausto no more)  on  08/26  at  03:46 PM

Amanda Marcotte: If psychologists could just figure out not only what’s wrong with right wingers, but how to fix it, I’d personally give 10% of my annual income to the research.

paradox: I’m in for 15%.

I’ll give 20% if their research requires vivisection.

Comment #40: W. Kiernan  on  08/26  at  03:50 PM

I’ll give 20% if their research requires vivisection

W. Kiernan wins the thread.

Comment #41: Gracchus  on  08/26  at  03:53 PM

I don’t find it at all problematic that anyone might not appreciate what they have until they don’t have it anymore.

At a less vicious level, that experience can be found in Quebecois who travel and live abroad.  One of the more interesting stats to come out of the last round of “Whither Canada???” separatist crisis / navel gazing was the statistic showing that support for independence amongst Quebecers dropped like a stone amongst those who, being formerly separatist, had lived or studied abroad and seen just how pettifogging most of Les Grands Problemes of the sovereigntists really were.

Comment #42: seeker6079  on  08/26  at  03:53 PM

As seen in our stuoopid hitech elevator screen brain drainer:

Obama Controversy: Republicans linking Obama to radical Bill Ayers ...

of course this was only a short snippit and no more ... like they had any evidence of anything or something ...

I suppose half my office is now in trouble because we have supervised and funded John Froins’ research?  That’s a closer tie than Obama and Ayers have!

Then again, this was the same soundbite garbage screen that served up “Did you know: scientists believe that lactose intolerance evolved as a response to a lack of milk”.  Um ... no.

Comment #43: Ms Kate  on  08/26  at  03:55 PM

Ooops, I mispelled John Froines’ name there.

Comment #44: Ms Kate  on  08/26  at  03:57 PM

True, but we’re also less likely to vote at all.

Maybe so, but since those polls don’t count us at all, there will be a difference.

And if you check the link, Obama may be only three points past 270, but he’s nineteen points past McCain, with only thirteen votes left in play.

I know that a lot can happen between now and November (heck, that count fluctuated a lot in the last week), but the fact remains that anyone who’s dead cert confident that McCain is going to win just plain isn’t paying attention.

Comment #45: Seraph  on  08/26  at  04:00 PM

I don’t know, I’m pretty meh on the idea that traveling abroad, someone from a more affluent country (or someone who has higher standards for their country, or whatever) would see problems abroad and think, “hey, screw my disagreements with my country, I mean, at least we have a public school system, right?”  I don’t think travel should be a means to shush people who want to make a good place even better.  Which isn’t necessarily in support of Quebecois independence, just that I think it’s silly to act like anyone who wants more positive change had better give those goals up because some people live with worse. 

Not to mention I’ve also benefitted from travel to countries which are more affluent than the US or have different priorities.  In fact, Montreal is one of my big examples.  It’s a lot like an American city, except they have political priorities that make it much more liveable.  Also, poutine, but I doubt that’s a the result of a white paper.

Comment #46: The Opoponax  on  08/26  at  04:05 PM

The image accompanying your post is of an adjustable wrench; the wrench traditionally “thrown into the works” to disrupt machinery is a monkey wrench, which looks like this.

Actually, that’s a Stilson pipe wrench not a monkey wrench.

Comment #47: Sarcastro  on  08/26  at  04:07 PM

Then again, this was the same soundbite garbage screen that served up “Did you know: scientists believe that lactose intolerance evolved as a response to a lack of milk”.  Um ... no.

In fact, scientists believe the exact opposite—that lactose TOLERANCE, not intolerance, is the recent evolution due to the domestication of milk-producing animals.

That’s all we’ve got for This Blog Post In Science

Comment #48: Erl  on  08/26  at  04:08 PM

Excuse me.  Twenty-one votes past McCain.

Comment #49: Seraph  on  08/26  at  04:08 PM

I thought it was a channel lock.

Comment #50: Melissa  on  08/26  at  04:12 PM

Oddly, so am I. I just think his chances of winning are pretty close to zero.

What is the purpose of statements like this? I swear to God, it seems like progressive are tripping over each other to put a fork in this race and call it done. I don’t know if you just don’t want to get your hopes up or what, but that statement isn’t even remotely rooted in reality. We have a really good damned chance of winning this thing but all of the pissing and moaning and negativity isn’t fucking helping. Christ.

Comment #51: Jenny Dreadful  on  08/26  at  04:14 PM

Exactly, Erl.  My two boys are lactose intolerant and I found that interesting fact out rather quickly after the genetic component was discovered.  Lactose tolerance is the mutation - you only need one dominant gene - and a very recent one at that (about 6,000 or so years ago).  It was selected FOR in populations where cattle and milk made otherwise unproductive land a viable place to live.

Here’s a good description of how the environment modified the human genome: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/11/science/11evolve.html

Comment #52: Ms Kate  on  08/26  at  04:19 PM

Jenny -

Sharon isn’t even remotely progressive, and never claimed to be.

Comment #53: Seraph  on  08/26  at  04:23 PM

Huh. I thought I detected a note of despondence in Sharon’s declaration. Damned trolls!

Comment #54: Jenny Dreadful  on  08/26  at  04:25 PM

One wonders where the trolls get their numbers when they go “ZOMG Obama’s gonna raise my taxes!”  Every number I’ve seen shows that taxes don’t increase until you make about $600k/year. Meanwhile McCain’t will raise my taxes so he can pay off his donors.

Now that’s socialism. Socialize the costs, privatize the profits.

Comment #55: Dr. Squid  on  08/26  at  04:57 PM

more people believe in his platform

I really don’t think people want to be taxed on the value of their employer-paid health insurance. Few people vote to have less spendable income.

Is there more to McCain’s platform than that?

True, but [landlineless people are] also less likely to vote at all.

Depends on who the candidates are. Hard to get pumped up for Kerry or Gore. Although the luster may be coming off, Obama inspired younger people during the primaries.

Comment #56: Hector B.  on  08/26  at  04:57 PM

Apparently he “really didn’t love America” until he was in his 30’s.

Was that before or after he gave secrets to the VC while in Hanoi? Them smokes he got must’ve tasted awfully good.

Comment #57: Dr. Squid  on  08/26  at  04:59 PM

Really, Sharon?  That’s all you’ve got?  Pretending to be so stupid as to think I meant “this week” as in when Obama’s gonna win, not as what my state of mind is this week?  I mean, we know you’re stupid, but c’mon.  Even people who can’t pass the stick rule aren’t that dumb.

Comment #58: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/26  at  05:15 PM

McCain duly called him down out held Obama accountable for that…

And here I was thinking my plea for trolls with proofreading skills had been answered.

Comment #59: Sarcastro  on  08/26  at  05:33 PM

What is up with trolls like SPQR_US holding forth on the “true facts about Obama!!!1!” but they can’t seem to spell his name right?

I understand that all 6 letters of “Barack” are hard for your pea-sized brain, SPQR, but I bet you could manage it if you studied really, really hard.

Comment #60: GumbyAnne  on  08/26  at  05:38 PM

I thought it was a channel lock.

Channellock is a trademarked name for tongue and grove pliers.

Comment #61: Sarcastro  on  08/26  at  06:38 PM

Seems to me that the poll issue is hardly interesting unless one is an advertising or policy analyst for a campaign, or unless we’re in the final run up (soon enough). The numbers mid-stream only tell the story of the latest advertising and campaigning.

More interesting (to me anyway) is the money issue, which has had little play in the media.
Obama’s decision to avoid the public campaign financing caps seems brilliant ( or conversely McCain made a grave error).

Like it or not, money wins elections, and McCain seems a little boxed in. I know a few Obama supporters here mentioned holding on to their dough until the post convention stretch (as I am), and hope many more have done the same.

Comment #62: staydaddy  on  08/26  at  07:17 PM

I’m not surprised by the anti-choice nut balls making a fuss at the convention. I’m surprised (after living in the area) that it is not total mayhem. There is no shortage of the fire-and-brimstone-sans-edumacation types around Denver to create a small crusade. Looks like a low turnout (so far) to me, at least in what the media is portraying.
Count it as a win.

Comment #63: staydaddy  on  08/26  at  07:24 PM

Check out this stuff dudes:

http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2008/08/breaking_news_p_4.html#trackbacks


The MSM do there best to block the truth about abortion, so we in the pro-life community have to do the best we can.

Comment #64: BobK  on  08/26  at  08:47 PM

Um, BobK does his best to block the truth about abortion - otherwise, he’d have noticed that all those European social democracies have much lower rates because they provide birth control, and are willing to provide for all the children who do arrive.

Making it possible to have another child through maternity leave, child supports, affordable child care, etc. = much less abortion.  Making it possible to not have another child through full and unquestioned access to birth control and backup emergency birth control = much less abortion.

The recipe is there BobK - it’s people like YOU who don’t want us to know the truth about reducing the abortion rate - or the truth about WOMEN DYING FROM LACK OF ACCESS, and what happens to THEM and THEIR families.

Comment #65: Ms Kate  on  08/26  at  08:57 PM

“WOMEN DYING FROM LACK OF ACCESS”

In most of the United States, 24 abortions are carried out for every 100 live births. In New York, 72 abortions occur for every 100 live births.
This is the same New York that rejected federal abstinence funding last year as well as conducted a campaign to distribute 26 million condoms FREE. Workers even handed them out at subway stations.

This is the same New York that offers free taxpayer-funded abortions to poor women and boasts 56 taxpayer-funded programs to distribute contraceptives free or cheap, according to the Crain’s piece.

NY touts everything liberals say must be done to curb abortion. The answer to the increasing problem, according to the article?...

“To me, the problem is access,” says [Deborah] Kaplan [deputy commissioner of the city Department of Health and Mental Hygiene]. “If we improved access to contraceptives, there would be a reduction in abortion.”


Ha

Comment #66: BobK  on  08/26  at  09:10 PM

NYC isn’t one of the places where access is a problem.

Try a small community in the midwest.  Or a rural community in the west.

BobK, nice try, but you fail.

Put a HEE in front of that HA next time, and you will show your true species.

Comment #67: Ms Kate  on  08/26  at  09:21 PM

As for taxpayer funding, well, lets just say that basic medical care is a RIGHT not a privilege of the rich.

Women will get abortions - they can be safe and legal, or they can be unsafe and illegal.  Of course, more dead women just satisfies your blood lust for punishment according to your rules.

Comment #68: Ms Kate  on  08/26  at  09:23 PM

If folks here are becoming a tad too worried about the polls and think that Obama should be more governed by them, a useful counterweight for pondering is this:

The biggest believer in polls in the Democratic Party is Mark Penn.

“And how’s that working for ya?”

Comment #69: seeker6079  on  08/26  at  09:46 PM

Ms Kate,

I put your lie to rest.

Comment #70: BobK  on  08/26  at  11:14 PM

So, once upon a time there was a Czar. And that Czar brought all his statisticians before him and said: I wish to improve the health of my people. What is the one thing most strongly correlated with a high instance of disease? And the statisticians went for that measured, and calculated, and returned, and they said: “The number of doctors, my lord!”

And the Czar had all the doctors decapitated.

Do you see the point I’m trying to make here, BobK?

Comment #71: Erl  on  08/27  at  12:56 AM

To be fair Amanda I lived in Boston in 04 and I remember wingers pulling similar crap there.

Comment #72: Nied  on  08/27  at  01:41 AM

Do you see the point I’m trying to make here, BobK?

Given that he likely believes causation is merely a matter of the Invisible Bearded Sky Man’s(tm) whims or mankind’s (inherently evil) defiance of those whims, I’m guessing he doesn’t.

Comment #73: Gracchus  on  08/27  at  09:22 AM

Bismarck:  “I don’t think that Dr. T is arguing in bad faith.  I think that you are loosing the argument.”

I can’t take anyone seriously who doesn’t know the difference between “loose” and “lose.”

Don’t they teach anything in school anymore?

Comment #74: Mhorag  on  08/27  at  12:14 PM

The number of votes needed to win is 270.  Obama dipped below that number for the first time on August 20, after a month of GOP mudslinging, but now he’s got it back (convention surge, I know, but it can be built into something more lasting).  While you’re there, click on Previous Report.  You’ll notice that, despite a month of attack ads, at no point did McCain actually surpass Obama.  It came pretty close, but he just couldn’t close the gap.

The election is still 4 months out. Usually, the Democrat is wayyy ahead of the Republican candidate at this point in the race (before most people are paying attention). At the point people actually start studying the candidate, Democrats start losing voters. Why? Because, typically, their solutions to our problems are far left or left of center, involve increasing taxes, supporting liberal social values, helping unions (teacher and otherwise), limiting U.S. involvement abroad and cutting defense.

America hasn’t elected a northern liberal since before Obama was born. No matter what your state map says today, the chances of him winning diminish daily.

Young people vote in very low numbers. Their enthusiasm for Obama in March turns to cynicism by October because, by that time, they will come to see him as a politician: willing to tell everyone what they want. This is devastating in Obama’s case because so much attention has been paid to his every utterance. He just can’t nuance that much.

This isn’t even taking into account the 8-15% of people who will admit in polls that they will never vote for a black man. Or the women over 40 who don’t like Obama too much.

Really, Sharon?  That’s all you’ve got?  Pretending to be so stupid as to think I meant “this week” as in when Obama’s gonna win, not as what my state of mind is this week?  I mean, we know you’re stupid, but c’mon.  Even people who can’t pass the stick rule aren’t that dumb.

You shouldn’t advertise your stupidity, Amanda. I wasn’t referring to Obama winning “this week.” I was referring to Obama winning in November. You are the stupid person who professes to be a writer but can’t put your own sentence together coherently.

Comment #75: Sharon  on  08/28  at  12:19 AM
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