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Next entry: Is Kirsten Powers mainstreaming an anti-contraception argument? Yes. Previous entry: Padded bras, the requiring of and banning of, discussed here

Bamboo Review: Battle: LA: Semicolon

I needed to see something brainless this weekend, and what better than Battle: LA, this year’s official celebration of 1996’s Independence Day?  Yes, it’s been fifteen years since Jeff Goldblum and a newly updated copy of Mac OS 7 saved the planet.

You’ve seen this movie before: aliens invade for some reason; brave Americans rise up and blow the motherfuckers to alien hell.  The movie manages to address some of the nagging problems of this genre, to its credit.  For instance, the multiracial squad of intrepid people, although led by a handsome white dude, contains multiple Negroes and Latinos, and at least one Asian.  And not a one of them is a former gang banger, which is awesome.  The aliens also have armor or uniforms of some sort, which solves the continuing issue of alien nudists massing up to show off their junk to a world most unwilling to view it.

The great part about the movie is that it manages to avoid the offensive stereotyping of most of its characters.  The bad part is that it does it by giving them all such shitty, bland dialogue that you almost wish the token female soldier (Michelle Rodriguez, playing the same character she always does, but in uniform) would start talking about how she just wants to have babies.  The film’s bold choice to provide virtually no differentiation between its characters also seems less wise once they start dying.  You realize that once you strap a helmet on these people and start dousing them in grime, there’s absolutely no way to figure out who’s doing what and when; when someone gets shot, it’s just one less gun firing.  One of the characters is a virgin.  I have no idea if he survived or not.  There was another one who was afraid of the battlefield or something.  I think he died, but he might also have lived.  The Asian guy definitely died somewhere in there, but I lost track.  Michelle Rodriguez lives, but that’s mainly because Hollywood remains convinced she’s a bankable star. 

I struggled to find a way that Battle: LA related to modern political debates.  (This is where the spoilers begin, below the jump.)

The most threadbare of rationales is given for the alien invasion: they need water.  Random Scientist Man explains on a somehow still-broadcasting CNN that Earth is unique among planets for its abundance of liquid water.  That’s cool and all, but here’s the thing.  The aliens launched a massive invasion of an entire planet, at the cost of (at least) thousands of alien lives, metric fucktons of technology and probably years upon years of planning.  There are more than a handful of places in our solar system alone with potentially tons and tons of water ice available that wouldn’t involve essentially sending your entire dumbass species to a heavily armed planet to engage in a prolonged war.  Essentially, we’re asked to believe that at the point a species could invent interstellar travel and a networked hive mind of assault drones large enough to take over a planet, it can’t invent a drill and room temperature. 

Mars Needs Moms has a more coherent and rational plot than this movie.

Was it a “no blood for oil” allegory?  Perhaps, although the aliens pretty much come, take whatever the fuck they want, and it’s only because one guy has a death wish that keeps making him trudge on that the brilliant plan to steal all the water goes awry.  You see, Aaron Eckhart’s character (the main one, at that) doesn’t want to be in the Marines anymore.  Now that aliens have invaded and he’s really in the Marines for the time being, he just decides to go ass-out Marine crazy.  There’s an underground lair to go into at night, blind?  Ooo-rah!  There’s four hundred aliens with portable missile launchers down the street?  Ooo-rah!  We just spent twenty-four straight hours fighting but there’s more shit to shoot?  Ooo-rah!  Don’t even get me started on the part where they’re trying to figure out what the aliens’ weak point is, which involves what seems like ten straight minutes of stabbing an alien torso with a KA-BAR knife. 

The best I can figure is that this is an extended ad for the Marines, with the tacit admission at one point in the movie (through the mouth of the Nigerian immigrant soldier) that this fight is nothing like Afghanistan.  Namely in the fact that we can actually win it, and rather easily.  Alien invasion movies fulfill our collective id’s need for clean, easy wars that we can win quickly and relatively painlessly, against an enemy that’s not only unremittingly evil but also so foreign to us that there’s no chance of ever humanizing them.  The problem with Battle: LA is that in 2011, we’ve also dehumanized the soldiers who fight for us, turning them into nothing but a Benetton ad with lots and lots of guns.

Which, to be fair, would make for a pretty fucking awesome Benetton ad.

 

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 11:58 AM • (88) Comments

he just decides to go ass-out Marine crazy.  There’s an underground lair to go into at night, blind?  Ooo-rah!

Is this actually how his character is written, or is that just you making things sound way cooler than they are? ‘Cause now I’m picturing some sort of black comedy in which this poor Marine just can’t get a damn alien to kill him… :p

Comment #1: Bagelsan  on  03/14  at  12:10 PM

Does anyone welcome the alien invaders to Erf followed by punching them in the carapace? Do any of the aliens play with Commander Data like a hand puppet? Are there drunken crop dusters out to redeem themselves? Is there a Jewish character played broadly enough to make Jackie Mason plotz? Is there a defense secretary that waits until AFTER three cities (including Washington) are destroyed before telling the President that, yeah, we sorta knew all about these guys ahead of time?

If the answer to these questions is “NO”, then this movie can never live up to the spectacular Cheesefest that is ID4.

Comment #2: Brian Schlosser  on  03/14  at  12:14 PM

Alien invasion movies fulfill our collective id’s need for clean, easy wars that we can win quickly and relatively painlessly, against an enemy that’s not only unremittingly evil but also so foreign to us that there’s no chance of ever humanizing them.

Gosh - human grit, sacrifice and perserverance can win against a vastly superior horde of alien invaders intent on trampling over your land to grab its resources?

I imagine they do well with overseas audiences too…

Comment #3: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/14  at  12:19 PM

I would like the vest that Aaron E is wearing in that cap. I can never have enough pockets.

Which is not at all the point of the post, but the previous post about padded bras got me thinking about all the ways women’s clothing is deficient/oppressive, and the lack of pockets is a huuuuuuge annoyance of mine.

Comment #4: benvolio  on  03/14  at  12:29 PM

“The problem with Battle: LA is that in 2011, we’ve also dehumanized the soldiers who fight for us, turning them into nothing but a Benetton ad with lots and lots of guns.”

This is mostly true in the Real World too.  When real soldiers are presented as real human beings there’s a big downside:  Soldiers get hurt and die in war.  So actual individual soldiers are a problem.  Presenting the team — The Marines or The Army, as a symbol of America, Fuck Yeah! — is great.  The team is faceless, lives on forever, doesn’t get hurt, and doesn’t suffer from other problems of individuality.  So it’s much easier/better to cheer on the group, hoo rah!

It’s interesting that the same facelessness has been true regarding civilians for a long time.  When a wedding party gets shot up, when a group of pre-teen boys is slaughtered, when a bomb goes off in a marketplace, the victims are not individuals.  They are just a group of people who were either The Evil and Mindless Enemy (and therefore not worthy of individuality), or some group of people caught up in The Chaos of War and We Didn’t Want to Hurt Them, but Why Were They In The Way of Our Awesome Weapons, BTW-did-you-know-terrists-killed-3000-people-on-9/11?  The people directly affected by the natural cruelty and violence of modern warfare must be shoved aside to assuage our collective guilt, and making the victims faceless goes a long way toward that goal.

The corporate interests who profit from the Military Industrial Complex and their handmaidens The Media have no interest in presenting real people, unless they’re generals, or the Secretary of Defense, or “Defense Analysts”, or other “safe”, carefully controlled people.  Death and injury is a buzzkill.  Highlighting the tragic deaths or grievous injuries of actual people, and the aftermath, doesn’t bring eyeballs and cash.

So is it any wonder our entertainment reflects our collective rejection of cruel reality?...

Comment #5: MikeEss  on  03/14  at  12:38 PM

this movie more than fulfilled my quota for mindless entertainment..plus i guess i’m biased, i love michelle rodriguez and am a marine. stabbing and re-stabbing and over-stabbing the alien corpse provided nothing but absurdity, and thus laughs. shoot it in the torso where the heart would be? oh, because up until that point, everybody was aiming for the limbs, hahaha

Comment #6: whotookthebomp  on  03/14  at  12:43 PM

“Which is not at all the point of the post, but the previous post about padded bras got me thinking about all the ways women’s clothing is deficient/oppressive, and the lack of pockets is a huuuuuuge annoyance of mine. “

Not to distract from the subject either, but I had to LOL at this because this was my huge beef when I was 13. I was a tomboy and I loved to shove things in my pockets. The closer I got to puberty and highschool, the smaller my pockets got, until they were so tiny I could barely fit a pocket wallet in there and I realized every girl my age was “supposed” to have a purse.

Comment #7: ArachneSable  on  03/14  at  12:44 PM

There are more than a handful of places in our solar system alone with potentially tons and tons of water ice available that wouldn’t involve essentially sending your entire dumbass species to a heavily armed planet to engage in a prolonged war.

Not only could these aliens get water from the rings of Jupiter or the Oort cloud or any of a thousand places outside Earth, but you have to wonder:

If they really want Earth’s water, why do they invade Earth?

Why don’t they just buy the water? It wouldn’t be that hard to buy a base on, say Kerguelen Island or some other out-of-the way place, then start shipping water away.

Or, if they really want to be nasty and take the water, why don’t they just nuke Earth from orbit? It would only take a few nukes to exterminate homo sapiens, especially if you then waited a few years.

Comment #8: atheist  on  03/14  at  12:55 PM

It’s so absurd from the get-go. Not only is Amanda right in that’s it’s easier to get ice from other places in the solar system, if it really had to come from Earth, they could have just sucked the oceans dry.

I’m sure aliens capable of interstellar travel could also create water out of other materials, oh well.

Comment #9: LCforevah  on  03/14  at  12:59 PM

I’ve got nothing on the movie or genre. I’m just amused that the frequency Nigerians* are showing up on movies and shows in the last couple of years. They are apparently the favorite “exotic” of screen writers right now.

Said with love, since my husband is Nigerian. We have a laugh at these characters’ knack for being con-men or rebels. Though, it sounds like in the movie the role is a little different.

Comment #10: Olivia  on  03/14  at  01:12 PM

Olivia - in this movie, he’s just a guy trying to be a doctor.  Doesn’t give any African parables, doesn’t do anything more or less heroic than anyone else.  It was kind of nice, actually.

Comment #11: Jesse Taylor  on  03/14  at  01:15 PM

“Gosh - human grit, sacrifice and perserverance can win against a vastly superior horde of alien invaders intent on trampling over your land to grab its resources?”

Hey, it worked for the Vietnamese.

Comment #12: Smartpatrol  on  03/14  at  01:28 PM

“Essentially, we’re asked to believe that at the point a species could invent interstellar travel and a networked hive mind of assault drones large enough to take over a planet, it can’t invent a drill and room temperature.”

This is 100% certain to be the best sentence I read this week.

Comment #13: jleaux  on  03/14  at  01:34 PM

Michelle Rodriguez lived?  That’s probably the first time that’s ever happened; it seems like she makes it a contractual requirement that she gets killed in every movie or TV show which she appears in.

Comment #14: JMPEsq  on  03/14  at  01:47 PM

Sooo….
It’s easier to pull billions of tons of water out on Earth’s gravity well in liquid form (not including the insulation against vacuum temperatures to keep it from freezing) than put some small rockets on already moving bodies of water, like a comet to get it closer to the sun to melt or shipped to the alien’s planet?

OOooookaaaaay.
Why can’t the aliens just attack us for our Unobtanium?

Comment #15: cynickal  on  03/14  at  01:52 PM

It’s so absurd from the get-go. Not only is Amanda right in that’s it’s easier to get ice from other places in the solar system, if it really had to come from Earth, they could have just sucked the oceans dry.

This comes from the Hollywood Studio level of wisdom.

“Why would they invade Earth?”

“Um, because we have something and they can see we have it.”

“So what’s noticable about Earth from space?”

“Um, seas?”

Without even seeing the movie, I’m gonna guess there’s one Big Blue Marble shot at the start.

Comment #16: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/14  at  01:56 PM

Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, I’m told. In order to make their own damn water they just need oxygen. Which might not be so abundant, I don’t know. But I suppose if they invaded us for our oxygen, they would have to build a ship that can transform into a giant vacuum cleaner capable of flying at ludicrous speed.

Comment #17: Mighty Ponygirl  on  03/14  at  02:02 PM

JMPEsq:

Even Paul Winfield made it to the end of the story once or twice.

Comment #18: BrianX  on  03/14  at  02:13 PM

OK even assuming they need to be on Earth to get water, why the hell are we talking about LA?  Its not like there is a huge amount of fresh water there and if salt water is fine there are thousands of remote islands in the Pacific.  Battlefield:Chicago?  Maybe, but LA?

But did with water and LA did they at least throw in a knowing Chinatown reference?

Comment #19: Robert  on  03/14  at  02:36 PM

“Why can’t the aliens just attack us for our Unobtanium?”

...‘cause their’s is better.  Their level of scientific, technical, and engineering knowledge is so superior to ours that comparing them to us would be like comparing us to insects. 

For some reason, this is why they need to invade Earth so badly: They need human females to breed, they need us for labor, they need us for food, they need our air or our water, or they need Lebensraum. 

Their incredibly awesome technology just can’t come up with in vitro fertilization (or Viagra), advanced robotics, advanced agriculture or Soylent Green, easier to get at sources of oxygen and water, or planets that are unoccupied.  Humans, with our ingenuity and our strong survival instincts, persevere no matter what obstacles are put in our way. 

Films like this, beamed all over the galaxy, serve as a warning to those who would try to use their superior knowledge and technology to conquer us and steal our precious resources.  We’re letting them know we have warehouses full of cans of Alien Whoop Ass all over the planet.  Go ahead and try us.  We’ll show you why you shouldn’t mess with us!...

Comment #20: MikeEss  on  03/14  at  02:38 PM

“So what’s noticable about Earth from space?”

Crappy television? Maybe they want our precious, precious reality TV show contestants? As a sadly-totally-easily-renewable resource? (Be warned though, aliens, I’m not sure a single person from Jersey Shore is actually biodegradable…)

Comment #21: Bagelsan  on  03/14  at  02:40 PM

Wait a second! They invaded Los Angeles for the water?  Isn’t that sort of like invading Manhattan for all the timber and farmland?

Ka-sheesh!  Forget about the implausibility of marshaling interstellar space flight while overlooking local comets, drills, and room temperature.  Forget elementary logistics, strategies, or tactics.  If you really wanted to steal LA’s water you’d invade northern California, which is where LA steals it.

The premise doesn’t sound as much like a blood-for-war allegory as Chinatown redux.

In real life, though, if I was invading a the Earth for its water I’d probably aim more for, say, Turkmenistan (the Caspian Sea is very large), Republic of Buryatia (Lake Baikal isn’t just the third largest lake, the water’s very pure), or, say, Sarnia, Ontario (start draining at Lake Huron and, since they’re connected, you’ll get free refills from Lake Superior and Lake Michigan.)  Or maybe Canaria, Brazil (the Amazon River drains a lot of rainforest!)  Plus none of those are as heavily populated, and few are as heavily armed, as LA.

Suspended disbelief?  It’s easier to believe aliens would bother at all than to believe they’d bother with LA!

figleaf

Comment #22: figleaf  on  03/14  at  02:45 PM

Jesse, that’s cool. Perhaps it will turn the leaf on “all Nigerians are mercenary con-men”. smile

Comment #23: Olivia  on  03/14  at  02:58 PM

“Why can’t the aliens just attack us for our Unobtanium?” LOL! That made me almost spew my own water thru my nose.

Comment #24: Olivia  on  03/14  at  03:07 PM

The problem I have with all such “alien invasion” genre films is, as has been pointed out, that any alien that has the technology to get to us (thus having solved the unsolvable problem of light speed) has got to be so far ahead of us technologically that any resistance we could put up would be the equivalent of chimps throwing poo human beings who encroach on their forest.

It would be interesting (though presumably as depressing as hell) to see an alien invasion film where we get our arses comprehensively kicked and truly made to face our place in the universe.

Comment #25: Katherine  on  03/14  at  03:21 PM

Erm, I meant throwing poo *at* human beings.

Comment #26: Katherine  on  03/14  at  03:22 PM

Olivia - in this movie, he’s just a guy trying to be a doctor.  Doesn’t give any African parables, doesn’t do anything more or less heroic than anyone else.  It was kind of nice, actually.

Jesse, that’s cool. Perhaps it will turn the leaf on “all Nigerians are mercenary con-men”.

Damn Nigerians, with all their doctorin’ in a war zone. Do they seriously just have dudes in Nigeria with nothing better to do than sit in front of their computers all day and study online medical texts? Gawd. Stop spamming me about “are you okay? Seriously, that’s a lot of blood” and asking me to give you access to my pulse. “Please, I need to check your head injury; you’re clearly raving” ? Not gonna fall for it, bro.

Comment #27: Bagelsan  on  03/14  at  03:26 PM

“Which is not at all the point of the post, but the previous post about padded bras got me thinking about all the ways women’s clothing is deficient/oppressive, and the lack of pockets is a huuuuuuge annoyance of mine.”

Heh.  I was just grousing over the current crop of lady-cargo pants with their tiny, vestigial pockets a few days ago.  It’s like manufacturers can’t get away with no pockets, though they would clearly really like to, so they will make the ones they’re contractually required (or something) to add as small and useless as humanly possible and hope that eventually women will come to their senses and realize that pockets aren’t for us.

Comment #28: preying mantis  on  03/14  at  03:26 PM

Sounds like the writers completely ripped off Calvin and Hobbes (http://calvin-comics.blogspot.com/2009/04/we-prefer-your-extinction-to-loss-of.html) for the premise.

Comment #29: traininthedistance  on  03/14  at  03:42 PM

Death toll (SPOILERS):

The Salty One Who Is Retiring Tomorrow: Survived (and led the team to victory)
The One with the Pregnant Wife (also, the New Officer in His First Command): Blew himself up in the bus
The One Who Is About to Get Married: Survived
The One with a Chip on His Shoulder: Survived, and learned a very important lesson about trust
The One with PTSD: Got to the top of the rubble heap to call in the missiles, then got blown up
The Baby: Died in the helicopter explosion
Michelle Rodriguez: Survived
The One from Joyzee: Got blown up on top of one of the tanks
The Earnest Colored Fellow: Survived.
The Valiant Civilian: Got shot by an alien and died slowly while holding his son’s hand
The Rest of Them: Hold on, what, now?

Comment #30: ACG  on  03/14  at  03:45 PM

Sounds like the typical boring alien invasion rehash, with a laughably stupid motive for the aliens (there’s far more water in the outer solar system than there is on this planet, a lot of it not involving going into such deep gravity wells to get to). American military saves the day again, yay.

Personally if I were to do an alien invasion story (which I won’t because I’m not a writer), I’d go with a different scenario: let’s say the aliens have dropped terraforming devices in the middle of the African rainforest. The alien ecology is of course lethal to Earth life, and spreading. We don’t get to see the intelligence behind the things at all: maybe there isn’t any and we’re just on the receiving end of some ancient swarm of machines terraforming planet after planet for a civilisation that has long died out. Probably doesn’t really matter in terms of the plot, even if they’re out there the aliens aren’t going to show up until the planet is ready for them anyway, by which point humanity would have lost.

Then take the viewpoint of the indigenous people trapped between the expanding alien ecology, the machinations of the pharmaceutical companies (you just know they’d be all over alien lifeforms) and the government which is propped up by Western interests. No big damn heroes to save the day - after all how much does the West really care about ecological problems that aren’t in its own backyard?

I doubt anyone would buy it though. And I’m not sure in this scenario humanity would win.

Comment #31: ayjay  on  03/14  at  03:51 PM

“Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, I’m told. In order to make their own damn water they just need oxygen. Which might not be so abundant”

Ponygirl - I believe that oxygen is the third most common element in the universe after hydrogen and helium so it should be rather easy for an advanced species to manufacture water.

Water was the same reason the aliens of the original “V” (don’t know about the remake as I’m not watching it) came to Earth. I always pictured the writer looking for a motive for the aliens to invade while writing in his Palm Springs home and, seeing the lack of water in the desert and knowing we’re considered a water planet, coming up with that stupid reason. Too bad the writers of this flick decided to use the same excuse.

Comment #32: Shakatany  on  03/14  at  03:55 PM

I would like the vest that Aaron E is wearing in that cap. I can never have enough pockets.

Which is not at all the point of the post, but the previous post about padded bras got me thinking about all the ways women’s clothing is deficient/oppressive, and the lack of pockets is a huuuuuuge annoyance of mine.

The vest he’s wearing is almost certainly a Rob Liefeld creation.

I’m sure aliens capable of interstellar travel could also create water out of other materials, oh well.

Like Hydrogen and Oxygen.  For fuck’s sake Hollywood, water is made as a byproduct of like every combustion reaction.  The simplest one being 2 H2 + O2 -> 2 H2O.  Holy shit you just made water and you didn’t even have to invade a populated planet for it.

Comment #33: Toitle  on  03/14  at  04:07 PM

I’d like to see a movie where we encounter peaceful alien scientists charmed by our simple native ways, but then one of them inadvertently discovers our planet contains abundant qualities of some random resource that’s just what the aliens needed for their energy generating processes, then suddenly the alien military industrial complex decides that our barbarous ways are a threat to galactic civilization that must be wiped out.

All seems lost but then a brave, handsome alien of the alien race’s dominant racial/gender/ethnic distinction teaches us that we can just FIGHT BAKCK, inspiring us to charge into a gloriously tragic, bloody defeat that nonetheless allows the alien to overcome some haunting personal tragedy. And the other aliens feel bad and agree to stop slaughtering us for a while.

Comment #34: Dan  on  03/14  at  04:12 PM

@Comment #31: ayjay on 03/14 at 01:51 PM

Personally if I were to do an alien invasion story (which I won’t because I’m not a writer), I’d go with a different scenario: let’s say the aliens have dropped terraforming devices in the middle of the African rainforest. The alien ecology is of course lethal to Earth life, and spreading. We don’t get to see the intelligence behind the things at all: maybe there isn’t any and we’re just on the receiving end of some ancient swarm of machines terraforming planet after planet for a civilisation that has long died out. Probably doesn’t really matter in terms of the plot, even if they’re out there the aliens aren’t going to show up until the planet is ready for them anyway, by which point humanity would have lost.

It’s not a movie, but Ian McDonald’s Chaga series of novels has almost this exact premise (except the aliens terraforming the southern hemisphere aren’t deadly).

Comment #35: atheist  on  03/14  at  04:13 PM

Hey, it worked for the Vietnamese.

Yup.  American audiences get all the sweaty patriotic testosterone military flag-waving ho yay with teh moral clarity of actually being on, you know, the other side…

Comment #36: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/14  at  04:17 PM

All seems lost but then a brave, handsome alien of the alien race’s dominant racial/gender/ethnic distinction teaches us that we can just FIGHT BAKCK, inspiring us to charge into a gloriously tragic, bloody defeat that nonetheless allows the alien to overcome some haunting personal tragedy. And the other aliens feel bad and agree to stop slaughtering us for a while.

That doesn’t sound like much fun at all for the humans.

Comment #37: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/14  at  04:18 PM

@Comment #36: Phoenician in a time of Romans on 03/14 at 02:17 PM

Yup.  American audiences get all the sweaty patriotic testosterone military flag-waving ho yay with teh moral clarity of actually being on, you know, the other side…

When you consider the paradoxical disconnect between American movies, and our actual actions in the world (I’d include the rest of “The West” with those actions), it’s really wierd. How is it that someone can love a move like “Red Dawn”, yet support invading and occupying other nations?

Comment #38: atheist  on  03/14  at  04:22 PM

If you’re going to have an evil alien aggressor, I think the most realistic in all of modern fiction is the Covenant from Halo—fundamentalist <strike>Jjaro</strike> Forerunner worshipers whose leaders are covering up the fact that their faith is completely wrong. Economic motives make some sense, but only with planets already developed enough to have interstellar flight. (Which, if you ask me, makes the Ferengi more realistic than the Klingons, although empire is its own motivation sometimes…)

Comment #39: BrianX  on  03/14  at  04:38 PM

To be fair, TVScientistGUY was just *speculating* that they’re here mainly for our water.  Sure, they use it as a power source and you can get it plenty of other places in the galaxy, but the weather on Earth is a lot nicer than Ganymede.

They probably just looked at our planet and thought: “Nice place to live, but it’s got roaches…”

Comment #40: Sour Kraut  on  03/14  at  04:48 PM

To be fair, TVScientistGUY was just *speculating* that they’re here mainly for our water.  Sure, they use it as a power source and you can get it plenty of other places in the galaxy, but the weather on Earth is a lot nicer than Ganymede.

Oh hell no, you did not just say that!

WHEN I write the BigEpicSFSagaThatWillTotallyMakeMeAMillion, the alien species that crossed space to reach us will prefer to live OUTSIDE a gravity well, thank you very much.  They will regard wind and weather as scary - possibly exciting, but scary - and duty on Earth will be a hardship post.  They’ll be manouvering to control the resources of the solar system and use these to gain effective economic control over those ugly humans, while keeping them in their place on the dirt.

Think in terms of England taking over India…

Comment #41: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/14  at  05:10 PM

Think in terms of England taking over India…

Except many English coming to India went so gaga for India that they imported an entire cuisine wholesale just to get a bit of India in London - and that is in addition to the many who went so native they refused to return to the Isles (personal favorite is the Scot who sat for a photo with a shalwar kameez in his regimental tartan - complete with matching turban and ostrich plume.  Thank god is was B&W;).  Heck, Mrs. Brown had a special title created for her to expressly cement India into Britishness.  India wasn’t a hardship posting for Brits; it was curry and verandas and shampoo and pyjamas and exotic mistresses and funky religion and ...  If the Brits had “hated being in India” any more than they did, they would have moved Parliament to Delhi.

That being said, Footfall may be a good look at how space-born aliens view dealing with terrestrial existence.

Comment #42: phalamir  on  03/14  at  05:32 PM

Personally if I were to do an alien invasion story (which I won’t because I’m not a writer), I’d go with a different scenario: let’s say the aliens have dropped terraforming devices in the middle of the African rainforest. The alien ecology is of course lethal to Earth life, and spreading. We don’t get to see the intelligence behind the things at all: maybe there isn’t any and we’re just on the receiving end of some ancient swarm of machines terraforming planet after planet for a civilisation that has long died out. Probably doesn’t really matter in terms of the plot, even if they’re out there the aliens aren’t going to show up until the planet is ready for them anyway, by which point humanity would have lost.

Then take the viewpoint of the indigenous people trapped between the expanding alien ecology, the machinations of the pharmaceutical companies (you just know they’d be all over alien lifeforms) and the government which is propped up by Western interests. No big damn heroes to save the day - after all how much does the West really care about ecological problems that aren’t in its own backyard?

I doubt anyone would buy it though. And I’m not sure in this scenario humanity would win.

Comment #31: ayjay

In addition to Atheist’s suggestion, see also A Matter for Men by David Gerrold
Though he should get off his ass and finish the series.  He left the protagonist plunging to his death above the Amazon rain forest.

Comment #43: cynickal  on  03/14  at  05:54 PM

WHEN I write the BigEpicSFSagaThatWillTotallyMakeMeAMillion, the alien species that crossed space to reach us will prefer to live OUTSIDE a gravity well, thank you very much.  They will regard wind and weather as scary - possibly exciting, but scary - and duty on Earth will be a hardship post.  They’ll be manouvering to control the resources of the solar system and use these to gain effective economic control over those ugly humans, while keeping them in their place on the dirt.

Think in terms of England taking over India…

Comment #41: Phoenician in a time of Romans

Manifold: Space by Stephen Baxter?

Comment #44: cynickal  on  03/14  at  06:10 PM

Speaking of Mars Needs Moms, it’s apparently pretty awful, gender-role and homophobia-wise, even for Hollywood.

http://stfuconservatives.tumblr.com/post/3838192892#disqus_thread

Comment #45: kaje  on  03/14  at  06:11 PM

@31, remember Project Genesis from Star Trek? That thing worked so fast, it would take mere hours to convert all available earthly biomass into whatever the aliens wanted, using their own version. Instant water rest stop for their species!

Of course, then, there is no story.

Comment #46: LCforevah  on  03/14  at  06:22 PM

SPOILERS!

<EM>One of the characters is a virgin.  I have no idea if he survived or not.  <EM>

He died in the helicopter explosion, still a virgin.

While I do enjoy a good brainless action flick this just didn’t do it for me. The first half was entertaining but what cliches they skipped based on race they made up for based on action movie protocol (guy’s getting married, check, dude’s got a first baby on the way, check, dude also has no idea what the fuck to do in actual combat and the reluctant veteran must take over, check). It’s all become shorthand for, “we don’t have time to actually make you care about these characters so here’s the character cliff notes for why you should.”

Not to mention Eckhart’s big speech toward the end about why he’s torn up about his last botched mission when he lost his unit (the people, not his penis) which is a ripoff of Starbuck’s speech from “Scar”. And after all that he ended it with “But none of that matters now.” Which caused people in the audience, myself included, to laugh. Uh, if that’s the case then why’d you just spend precious time talking about it?

The water issue has already been addressed which made me snort in the theater. Seriously, I’d love for every screenwriter in Hollywood to have to take a basic astronomy class or something to re-learn what they should’ve in high school.

And don’t get me started on how these aliens could park such a big ass ship under an L.A. street and not have anyone notice or go, “Why the fuck are they putting one of their ships under the street? Someone needs to check that shit.”

I wanted to like it. I’d seen Skyline and that was an epic piece of shit so I’d had hopes for this one but even as a popcorn flick I found myself 1) wanting to watch <em>Aliens<em> and 2) wanting to actually just play a video game.

Comment #47: UltraMagnus  on  03/14  at  06:28 PM

The movie only showed one scientist speculating that it might be water.  So, I’m willing to say that he was mistaken that water was the sole motivation rather than a convenient power source.

But, to the purposes for an alien invasion, well, there is no element on Earth that is unique to earth except for complex lifeforms.  The building-blocks thereof are everwhere.

That leads to only three possible reasons for invasion.

1.  Complex life is some non-manufacturable resource.  Like in another recent LA Alien Invasion story, human brains were needed for… some reason.

2.  Territory.  A place where you don’t *have* to have massive amounts of manufactoring just to produce a pocket of less-inevitable-death-than-pretty-much-everywhere-else is good for an expanding population.

3.  A phylisosophical opposition to other sentient life or life in general.

The thing about 2 and 3 that I think should be used in more movies is simply because the movie titles write themselves.  “EARTH VERSUS THE SPACE NAZIS!”  “SPACE HITLER ATTACKS!” “NAZIS PART 2: THE RESURRECTION OF CYBERNETIC SPACE HITLER!”

Comment #48: WingedBeast  on  03/14  at  06:37 PM

“3.  A phylisosophical opposition to other sentient life or life in general.”

Daleks?...

Comment #49: MikeEss  on  03/14  at  07:09 PM

Exterminate!

Exterminate!

Exterminate!

...

Comment #50: MikeEss  on  03/14  at  07:10 PM

Has there ever been a space invaders kind of movie where the big clash _wasn’t_ between the plucky, ragtag band of quirky individualists and the uniform, regimented order-followers?

Comment #51: FlipYrWhig  on  03/14  at  07:12 PM

WHEN I write the BigEpicSFSagaThatWillTotallyMakeMeAMillion, the alien species that crossed space to reach us will prefer to live OUTSIDE a gravity well, thank you very much.  They will regard wind and weather as scary - possibly exciting, but scary - and duty on Earth will be a hardship post.  They’ll be manouvering to control the resources of the solar system and use these to gain effective economic control over those ugly humans, while keeping them in their place on the dirt.

With some variation, I think you just described Battlefield: Earth...

The alien ecology is of course lethal to Earth life, and spreading. We don’t get to see the intelligence behind the things at all: maybe there isn’t any and we’re just on the receiving end of some ancient swarm of machines terraforming planet after planet for a civilisation that has long died out.

Essentially the backstory of John Ringo’s Posleen books…though instead of machines it’s sentient beings (The Posleen) swarming around.

Comment #52: liberalrob  on  03/14  at  07:17 PM

Yeah, MikeEss, Daleks.  Daleks are, in fact, one of the best Space Nazi groups out there.

Comment #53: WingedBeast  on  03/14  at  07:37 PM

A good first-contact book is Blindsight. Really, nothing looks like it’s going to end well for anyone when we make first contact…and the aliens are very, very alien. (The plot has that nice “reality doesn’t give a shit about you and everyone dies” vibe right off the bat—so, not really a feel-good book, but I liked it!)

Comment #54: Bagelsan  on  03/14  at  07:48 PM

Think in terms of England taking over India…

Except many English coming to India went so gaga for India that they imported an entire cuisine wholesale just to get a bit of India in London

I was thinking more in terms of taking over economically by playing sides against each other and controlling key parts of the economy.  Stomping heavily on any chance of the humans developing economic STO capability springs to mind…

Comment #55: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/14  at  07:59 PM

1.  Complex life is some non-manufacturable resource.  Like in another recent LA Alien Invasion story, human brains were needed for… some reason.

Computers.  Keith Laumer’s “A Plague of Demons” covers it entertainingly (plus, you know, superman kicking alien invader butt).

2.  Territory.  A place where you don’t *have* to have massive amounts of manufactoring just to produce a pocket of less-inevitable-death-than-pretty-much-everywhere-else is good for an expanding population.

WingedBeast, Space.  Space, WingedBeast.  You will note, WB, that Space is big.  Very big.  Very very very very very very very big. Shitloads of veries big.

Any alien species able to get to our star system will be using space for the bulk of their industry - especially the dirty nasty stuff.

With the possible exception of the poor bloody Roxolani, winner of the “most pathetic serious attempt at an alien invasion of Earth” award.

Comment #56: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/14  at  08:09 PM

Space is big, but the vast majority of it ain’t nice to us carbon based lifeforms.  Sure, there’s carbon galore, but most of the realestate is either too hot or too cold.

Sure, a lot of industry can happen a lot closer to the sun with a few bases, but do you really want to live there?  Wouldn’t you rather do a stint there and come back somewhere less claustrophobic to relax?  Maybe raise your kids there?  Or, hell, live there and hire out people who aren’t as wealthy to do all that industry while you get your bonuses and live out your days on that nice planet which has some nice views?

In space, the bulk of the manufactoring, the bulk of the industry is the “keeping space from killing us all instantly” service.  On a planet, you’re not spending an exhorbitant amount of quatloos for every single breath you take.  We know the aliens *can* travel through the void of space, but we don’t know how expensive it is.

Maybe all those alien grunts were thinking “If we can get rid of the native infestation, we can bring our families over and our children won’t have to have their lifespans cut in half due to not having an atmosphere to protect from radiation far more efficiently than any shields can manage.”

Comment #57: WingedBeast  on  03/14  at  08:24 PM

The problem I have with all such “alien invasion” genre films is, as has been pointed out, that any alien that has the technology to get to us (thus having solved the unsolvable problem of light speed) has got to be so far ahead of us technologically that any resistance we could put up would be the equivalent of chimps throwing poo human beings who encroach on their forest.
It would be interesting (though presumably as depressing as hell) to see an alien invasion film where we get our arses comprehensively kicked and truly made to face our place in the universe.
Comment #25: Katherine  on  03/14  at  02:21 PM

SPOILERS

“Skyline” pretty much did that.  Unfortunately, they coed the most shallow people in LA to follow about, so I didn’t care.

Comment #58: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  03/14  at  08:37 PM

In space, the bulk of the manufactoring, the bulk of the industry is the “keeping space from killing us all instantly” service.

Or, you know, it could be of the “look at all this cool stuff we can churn out with automation and a bit of teleoperation now we don’t have to worry about gravity and oxygen corrosion” service.

Comment #59: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/14  at  08:43 PM

Rendezvous with Rama (as I recall) was another realistic first-contact (?) book. More of the same ol’ “the universe doesn’t know and doesn’t care; cry moar puny humans” that I kinda like reading occasionally. It seems unlikely that we’d run into anyone who wants to pick exactly the right kind of fight to make things interesting withou

Considering the huge number of ways humanity can get its shit wrecked by aliens in books*, it’s a pity that movies stick to the aliens-shoot-laser-beams bull. Boring. (And arrogant! The universe isn’t out to get you, with its collections of mysteriously humanoid and laughably weak invaders, who get neatly exploded in 2 hours.)

I will say I like District 9 a lot, if only because it deviated from the Independence Day cliches. It can be done!

*giant encysted space wasps that get into your ship and lay eggs in you? Sure, why not; it’s a giant space wasp and it does what it damn well pleases. smile

Comment #60: Bagelsan  on  03/14  at  08:43 PM

“Or, you know, it could be of the “look at all this cool stuff we can churn out with automation and a bit of teleoperation now we don’t have to worry about gravity and oxygen corrosion” service.”

It could be.  The point remains that prime planetary realestate still remains a believable invasion purpose, more so than a need for water or moms.

Comment #61: WingedBeast  on  03/14  at  08:55 PM

Michelle Rodriguez lived?  That’s probably the first time that’s ever happened; it seems like she makes it a contractual requirement that she gets killed in every movie or TV show which she appears in.

Machete. Given the way Rodriguez (um, Robert, not Michelle) shows genre savvy in his films, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if her shooting and return at the climax was specifically a gag based on her “doesn’t survive to the end” reputation.

Comment #62: KeithM  on  03/14  at  10:16 PM

Katherine -

you’re making an unwarranted assumption based on *OUR* order of tech discovery.

i can’t remember WHO, but one of my fav sci-fi writers wrote a short story about an alien invasion - hundreds of ships landed, thousands upon thousands of soldiers marched out -

armed with blunderbusses.


because it’s just as possible for a TOTALLY ALIEN culture to have different priorities [not to mention resources! what if they didn’t have an equivilent to guano, and thus couldn’t make gunpowder?] and so discover ways to exploit space - but by doing so, they don’t have the time/resources or REASON to develope nukes. in the short story i’m referencing, the aliens invaded? had ASSUMED that we were low tech because we had NO “gravity manipulation” technology - and, apparantly [in that universe] it’s SO EASY that EVERY OTHER KNOWN SPECIES FOUND IT BEFORE THEY PROGRESSED PAST BLUNDERBUSSES.


just sayin’

Comment #63: denelian  on  03/14  at  10:30 PM

...this fight is nothing like Afghanistan.  Namely in the fact that we can actually win it, and rather easily. 

Chuckle.

Comment #64: Bitter Scribe  on  03/14  at  11:18 PM

I’d say “ooh, a planet we don’t have to terraform” is a plausible rationale for alien invasion. As is enslaving the ignorant locals for further space invasions. (Suppose the alien invaders were a host of different species. That’d be a bit of a twist.)

Comment #65: brandon  on  03/15  at  01:54 AM

i can’t remember WHO, but one of my fav sci-fi writers wrote a short story about an alien invasion - hundreds of ships landed, thousands upon thousands of soldiers marched out -

armed with blunderbusses.

Referenced here - correct link in that should be to here.

As you slap your forehead, I’d like you to take the time to learn the Pandagon mantra: “Piator…is always right. I will listen to Piator. I will not ignore Piator’s recommendations. Piator…is God. And, if this ever happens again, Piator will personally taunt you in front of the peer group yet again!”

Comment #66: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/15  at  02:06 AM

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Harry Turtledove. i KNEW it, my brain. i blame the meds.


“Piator…is always right. I will listen to Piator. I will not ignore Piator’s recommendations. Piator…is God. And, if this ever happens again, Piator will personally taunt you in front of the peer group yet again!”
also: Piator ROCKS”


also: that link to wikipedia goes to nothing - i recomend
http://turtledove.wikia.com/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken

Comment #67: denelian  on  03/15  at  03:37 AM

Harry Turtledove. i KNEW it, my brain. i blame the meds.

Mmm - there was a followup story, which a little bit of google-fu suggests is called “Herbig-Haro”.  If I recall, it was set after the implosion of the super Human Empire, complete with its lost dazzling high technology of… personal computers!!

Comment #68: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/15  at  05:14 AM

Denelian, fair enough - that would indeed be an interesting scenario.  Alas, not one likely to be of interest to Hollywood.  I would be nice if one if them could think outside the limited genre box for a change.  Adapt some Ian M Banks please! 

I think I should point out again though that the technology required to do interplanetary space travel would be truly mindboggling.  Way way beyond how most screen writers, and indeed most others, could possibly conceive. 

We’ve been spoiled by tales of star travel that wave a magic wand at light speed and relativity as if it’s just a wee glitch that someone will work out eventually, but that’s taking poetic licence to the zillionth degree.  Interplanetary travel is simply inconceivable as we now understand the physical laws of the universe.

Comment #69: Katherine  on  03/15  at  05:36 AM

@Comment #67: denelian on 03/15 at 01:37 A

also: that link to wikipedia goes to nothing - i recomend
http://turtledove.wikia.com/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken

denelian, piator

The annoying issue you’re experiencing with bad links comes because Wikipedia links often include characters that Pandagon’s commenting software refuses post. The Road Not Taken (short story) link includes characters ( and ) and Pandagon doesn’t like those in links. The only solution I’ve found is to use a link-shortening software such as bit.ly.

Comment #70: atheist  on  03/15  at  07:03 AM

You know what was a good alien invasion story? Footfall. The aliens invade because they actually *aren’t* that much more advanced than us, they were driven from their home and fled for the nearest planet they thought might be habitable without realizing it was already inhabited. Half the novel is from the alien point of view and involves the conflict between the commanders, bent on conquering Earth, and the younger generation born on the way over who don’t see what the point of living on a planet is anyway, let alone why they should have to die for one. The other half of the novel is from the point of view of the Science Fiction Writers of America, who get recruited as a think tank to come up with ways to fight the aliens. Ridiculous amounts of cheese ensue.

Spoiler rot13’d: Va gur raq jr orng gurz ol haqrefgnaqvat gurz, abg xvyyvat gurz (gubhtu bs pbhefr vg fgvyy vaibyirf ybgf bs rkcybfvbaf naq qrngu naljnl, orpnhfr vg jbhyqa’g or na nyvra vainfvba fgbel bgurejvfr), rkcybvg n dhvex bs gurve phygher/cflpubybtl gb znxr gurz fheeraqre, naq nofbeo gurz nf lrg nabgure cnegare va bhe cbyltybg fbpvrgl.

Niven/Pournelle have… occasionally been accused of getting a bit preachy, but at least in this one they were overall preaching something good. (Fallen Angels, on the other hand… blegh.)

Another good alien-invader motivation, though the actual story is more space opera than War of the Worlds-style invasion: the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za from the Star Control games, who give every conquered species the choice of eternal imprisonment on their home world, never to roam space again, or eternal enslavement as “battle thralls” in the Ur-Quan military. (So yes, it’s an example of multi-species invaders.)

Their reason turns out to be neither resources nor territory, but rather a mix of religious fanaticism and n oryvrs guvf jnf gur bayl jnl gb cebgrpg gur pbadhrerq fcrpvrf sebz gurve pbhfvaf, gur He-Dhna Xbue-Nu, jub jrer eryvtvbhf snangvpf onfrq ba gbgny trabpvqr bs rirelbar ryfr va gur havirefr.

Comment #71: Froborr  on  03/15  at  11:06 AM

I’m with the Chinatown-remake argument. Aliens with access to trillions of tons of frozen water all across the universe come to a the only place on earth with a goddam ocean on its doorstep that would nonetheless be a desert if it had not robbed and pillaged potable H20 from every nonparched community within hundreds of miles. And get their asses kicked. Hmm, maybe it’s actually a remake of Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

Comment #72: paul  on  03/15  at  11:11 AM

envolio @ 4: Word.  I went through a long period where I didn’t buy anything that didn’t have pockets.  I went several years buying almost no skirts and exactly 1 jumper styled dress.  Even the women’s clothes that does have pockets tends to have shittily made, too small or weirdly shaped ones.

Comment #73: helen w. h.  on  03/15  at  12:51 PM

liberalrob @ 52:
semisentient as in a core group of the Posleen are seintient “god” leaders to the rest.  The majority are little more than brain stem.
I like Ringo, when he writes by himself.  When he writes with that Tom K guy, I just want to shake him and ask how he can let someone turn his characters into cardboard like that.  Cally and Michelle are flawed but almost full characters, none of the women in these 2 with TK are at all.
Seriously, the latest had a better grasp of the Posleen psychology and made them less alien than the few human female characters - and the main one of those is a ship-AI-tank woman who is exceedingly immature as a human despite being hundreds of years old as a ship-AI.  There are apparently women on the ship sailing after the Posleen to convert them to some Earth religion, but we don’t see any of them except the ship-AI-Woman and a nurse until the brave Swiss guard are leaving the ship to defend the Polseen Baptist from the nativist religious fanatics.
Sorry for the rant.  I wasted a whole evening on that damn book.

Comment #74: helen w. h.  on  03/15  at  01:11 PM

@22 figleaf nooo don’t invade Sarnia! I live for their under-bridge chip wagons (ever two years when I make it there, anyway).

“Michelle Rodriguez lives, but that’s mainly because Hollywood remains convinced she’s a bankable star.”

Heh. She really does always play the same character—and maybe that’s Hollywood’s fault, they can’t think of anything for “not classically feminine hispanic woman” other than badass soldier/boxer/surfer chick (and, in her shoes, I’d much rather play that all the time than be typecast as vamp or shrinking violet and nothing else), but still, it’s always the same thing.

Comment #75: twg_  on  03/15  at  02:36 PM

You know what was a good alien invasion story? Footfall.

Apart from, you know, the invaders having the author’ thumb on the scale against them to help them lose.  It’s difficult to imagine a psychology better designed to lose to sneaky human scum - and the reason for that is simply because any decently sneaky alien invaders would have curb-stomped human resistance so easily.

I have this image of the innocent would-be invading aliens spying on Earth’s net and finding the “Evil Overlord” list.  Or, for that matter, they might stumble on Cracked.com and consider it a strategic resource - before they realise its an insidious trap and will suck away their lives link by link…

Comment #76: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/15  at  04:47 PM

Katherine - i agree wholeheartedly, Hollywood should look for good stories. but i also fear it - they BUTCHERED Starship Troopers. completely.

atheist - thanks for the tip. i RARELY use links at all, because they never freaking work for me. but i felt obligated, in this case, to TRY.

Helen;

the AI isn’t “hundreds of years old” in any meaningful sense. it was, somehow, shipped to Earth while ON, and it went absolutely batshit insane. which is why it’s a WOMAN. No, wait - it was the OTHER ship that got sent - the one that was only a few DECADES old - and able to be that, because she was infected by the AI of the first ship. both of the ships are, to an extent, crazy - the fact that BOTH of them created physical, female bodies for themselves is “proof”. they aren’t supposed to be representative of WOMEN, but rather of AIs that have DECIDED TO BE women - a completely different thing. there’s a comparision i could make, that might be considered a bit “anti-trans” although i am not - but think of both of the ships as people who were born neuter and decided to transition to female. like many other transexual women, they stay waaaaaaaaay inside the “feminine zone”, performing all aspects of femininity, for fear that others will judge them as “not-women” if they don’t.

which i thought was a fairly interesting way to subtly support the right of ALL people [of whatever gender, race, or SPECIES - sentience is what makes “people”] to be what they WANT to be.

Comment #77: denelian  on  03/15  at  11:47 PM

1.  Complex life is some non-manufacturable resource.  Like in another recent LA Alien Invasion story, human brains were needed for… some reason.
The Yeerks from Animorphs more or less did this. Humans meet all the criteria to be a perfect host species for them, the first such species they’ve ever encountered.

Comment #78: Devonian  on  03/16  at  03:51 AM

<i>blockquote>The Yeerks from Animorphs more or less did this. Humans meet all the criteria to be a perfect host species for them, the first such species they’ve ever encountered. </blockquote>

This was also the reason given in the Stargate series as to why the Goa’uld transplanted ancient human cultures all over the galaxy: humans were the best hosts, on average, that they’d come across. Also, of course, the human precursor Ancients.  All the Ancient tech the Goa’uld scavenged for their own use was already designed to be operated by a human (or something close enough for the differences not to matter).

Comment #79: KeithM  on  03/16  at  11:50 AM

denelian,
Did you read the fucking afterword of that 2nd book?  The I’m-not-pro-chrisitian Catholic/christianist screed?  The throw away comment about how feminists would howl about Guano’s description of what a wife and husband esentially were except that most of them were dead because sensible women decided they wanted the men to be cannon fodder and so were not feminists any more but excepted their rightful place as mother and tender of the hearth? 
But yes, the only even semi-developed “female” characters are not actually female, but an AI-ship-grown-in-tank-chosen body to allow mating with a chosen man and a hermaphroditic Posleen alien.  So, basically NO female characters whatsoever.

Comment #80: helen w. h.  on  03/16  at  09:49 PM

Wait, a semi-sentient hermaphrodic Posleen alien.  So not even semi-developed, except as background to her “husband” Godking and son.  Yeah, no MRA undertones there.  Not.At.All.

Comment #81: helen w. h.  on  03/16  at  09:51 PM

That’s accept “...their palce….”.  Yes, I’m still pissed.  Why do you ask?

Comment #82: helen w. h.  on  03/16  at  09:52 PM

helen -

nope. i don’t read his afterwards. i take what *I* want from the book.


it’s not that i don’t, at all, understand what you’re saying and what you read - i was just pointing out that you can read it differently, add stuff that certain nameless authors never intended, and piss off said authors by talking about them at sci-fi conventions [“Posleen and AIs - Proof That Even John Ringo Thinks LGBTQI is GOOD?”]

i’m sort of pissed at John Ringo, personally. but that’s a different issue.

Comment #83: denelian  on  03/17  at  03:56 AM

Okay, I’m pissed off I wasted my time and gave the assholes my money by buying a book that basically tells me my place is the kitchen or birthing and chasing babies and women are not worth bothering to investigate because they are just mysteries of non-rationality.

Comment #84: helen w. h.  on  03/17  at  09:13 AM

Phoenician@76: Well… yeah. That’s kinda the only way to make an alien invasion story of modern-day Earth remotely workable, which was sort of the point of the book—any reasonably competent ruthless faceless invading horde would just drop things on us from orbit until we stopped moving.

Comment #85: Froborr  on  03/17  at  11:46 AM

helen;

be pissed! it’s worth being pissed AT!
but note [as you did] that Ringo, alone or with different writers, doesn’t do this [or, at least, nowhere NEAR as bad]
also not - after a mass alien invasion and mass die-off, to the point where the POPE is not only allowing RCC clergy of all types to MARRY, but allowing polygamy [although, why 4 wive but not 4 husbands? sigh] - of course women are going to be viewed as nothing but incubators. as much as i HATE IT, i can see the point [i do NOT agree - it’s stupid, and there’s a thousand reasons it’s stupid - but you KNOW that if it happened, governments WOULD be trying to force women to be wives and mothers ONLY. oh, lack of labor may mean they get to work - but they BETTER be spitting out babies, too.]

i just like subverting things that piss me off. if you don’t want to subvert them, then be pissed! write letters to both of them [Ringo will probably read, may or may not reply; can’t say for the other guy, i’ve never tried to talk to him directly] write to BAEN - Toni W., the new Publisher at Baen, is a woman - she might have something to say about future books. did you return the book right after you read it? presuming you didn’t throw it into a wall or damage it otherwise, you probably could have…

Ringo is REALLY hit-or-miss, in general, when he’s writing alone - when he co-authors, it’s the other author who sets the tone. which is kinda… weird, really - he’s got such an ego, but he lets the other author set the tone?
you ever heard of the “No, John Ringo, No!” stuff? webpages devoted to it, tshirts, the whole thing. i don’t have it save on this computer, or i’d give you the website, but googling it should be pretty easy…

Comment #86: denelian  on  03/17  at  06:11 PM

[although, why 4 wive but not 4 husbands? sigh]
Because the latter is inefficient in terms of producing children, for starters?

Comment #87: Devonian  on  03/18  at  02:42 AM

I know, i know - it just makes me grumpy.

another one - what’s the BIBLICAL definition of adultry? “sleeping with another man’s wife”. at least, the OT one. know what that means? *WOMEN* can’t commit adultry - they aren’t men, so can’t sleep with “another man’s” anything, because the implication is that it’s a MAN doing it… even if it’s just “sleeping with a man’s wife”, straight women can’t commit adultry.

why?
because the assholes writing the Bible [ya know, the men who *translated* what they think God told them, *IF* God told them, a thing i’m not even convinced about…] just DIDN’T THINK OF WOMEN.
at all. it never occured to them that WOMEN might want to sleep with another woman’s HUSBAND [or even a man’s wife; ESPECIALLY a man’s wife…]

somehow, though, VERY quickly, the one who became punished for the sin commited by the MAN was *only* the woman [generally. sigh]


it’s why i’d never, ever convert to Christianity - Jesus himself [whatever his status is - real “divine” being, real human, or myth] was the first historical example of feminism, in the sense of “men and women are equal”. but Christianity *doesn’t accept this* - just like they don’t accept he was basically a socialist and etc. and i just can NOT be associated with a religion that is based, at least in part, of the notion that women are less than men.

except, of course, when they want babies. then we’re ALMOST equal to me.

gah.

Comment #88: denelian  on  03/18  at  06:07 AM
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