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Next entry: C’mon, we can do this acting like grown-ups thing Previous entry: WAM! Prom Lives On

Bamboo Review: The Walking Dead

I’ve been holding off on talking about “The Walking Dead” until after the season finale, because it’s a somewhat slow-moving show and I think it needs to be assessed in a bigger chunk than one episode at a time.  Also, I feel like they got off to a shaky start in some respects—-Adam is right that the cartoonishly racist Merle character was a misfire, and one that tends to reinforce the narrative that it can’t be racist if you fall short of donning white hoods—-but on the whole, I think it holds together well.  (They did the same thing with sexism, by taking a genuinely interesting look at sexism in the camp and then making it way over the top by introducing a man who beats his wife in front of others, which is super rare in the real world. Not the beating of women—-that’s common—-but the letting others know about it.)  As regular readers may know, I’ve read the comic book series the show is based on and have my criticisms just on a suspension of disbelief level. That said, my favorite aspect of the comics is that they are genuinely scary, something that should be a baseline for anything deemed “horror”. 

But there are a lot of things I don’t like about the comic that the TV show has been busy correcting.  One is the strong libertarian streak that leads to a poor understanding of human nature.  For instance, one of the most irritating aspects of the comic book was that the whole Rick vs. Shane thing had more than a glint of Nice Gy® logic to it—-because Rick is the hero and his wife Lori slept with Shane, then that must mean that Shane is a horrible person and was always a horrible person.  It didn’t even seem to occur to Kirkman that for this to be true, Lori would basically have to be the kind of woman not worth being married to in the first place.  A more interesting and realistic story would be that Shane and Lori both had much love for Rick, and when they thought Rick was dead, they fell in together, because presumably they were already friendly and have a lot in common.  And voila!  That’s exactly how the show decided to roll with it, and it’s been far more interesting for it.  Now it’s about Shane falling apart under the various stresses he’s under, which is more interesting that the “turn your back and your stupid wife sleeps with an asshole because women are weak and needy” narrative of the comics.

In fact, before things degraded into an too on-the-nose wife-beating scene, there was an interesting rewrite of the sexism of the books, at least early in the books.  In the books, the women complain a little about being shoved off into traditional gender roles of washing and waiting on men, but then cheerfully accept the strange notion that feminism is a luxury of civilization.  (To be fair, the books do get away from this, as I believe Kirkman realized that you can’t exempt half the human race from his notion that people discover new sides of themselves in emergency situations.)  On the show, there’s no indication that the women accept this.  So that was another example of how the TV show gets human nature much better than the books. 

The one thing the show does that the books did that makes me irate is it makes supply-gathering an ongoing problem.  I’m sorry, but the entire area around Atlanta is filled to the brim with rural and suburban areas that would be less zombie-clogged than the city and far more full of supplies that you could ransack until the end of time.  Including guns.  It’s Georgia.  Don’t tell me you couldn’t arm yourself to the teeth in under an hour if you had the ability to ransack any sporting goods store you came across. 

As for the finale, I agree that it was a dramatic shift away from everything that’s gone on, but I feel better about it than the Onion AV Club did.  They’re right that it didn’t feel like a season finale, but more like a mid-season break.  In a sense, that’s what it is—-they’ve only had 6 episodes, which is really only enough time to get the characters to make their first big move, which is what happened.  I was a little annoyed at how the characters aggressively questioned Dr. Jenner, which was only done to raise tensions in what was basically a big exposition scene.  I believe people in that situation would be grateful and conciliatory, especially towards a government official who is the last person they’ll probably ever see who still has some semblance of official authority behind him.  Nor should the director have feared that the audience would tune out during this long exposition.  I’m actually grateful that it was done early on—-if you have to do it, get it out of the way so the actual story can continue.  None of this “Battlestar Galactica” crap, where you wait until the end. 

All in all, I think this is a pretty interesting take on the zombie genre.  The problem with zombie movies is that the genre really does demand more of a slow burn, which is why George Romero kept being able to return to that well.  So even with all its flaws, I’m addicted to “The Walking Dead”.  What do you think?  Have you been watching?

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 07:30 PM • (70) Comments

It’s Georgia.  Don’t tell me you couldn’t arm yourself to the teeth in under an hour if you had the ability to ransack any sporting goods store you came across.

As a GA resident for 13 years, I assure you, you could handily outfit a small army with guns, ammo and (more importantly) food by simply knocking down doors in Rick’s old neighborhood, let alone the sheriff’s office or a sporting goods store. I had neighbors that cured their own meat and salted it away, just because it was a family tradition, not even as some weird survivalist/conservative tribal identity thing. Outside of the Pac NW, the South is where I’d want to be during a Zombie apocalypse: plenty of food and ammo.

Comment #1: Keith  on  12/06  at  08:26 PM

I’ve been watching. I don’t have a TV but I’ve gotten my local bar hooked on it and it’s become a regular Sunday night thing. I hope I can do the same for Breaking Bad when it comes back.

I didn’t take to the show right away. The opening was suck a blatant rip-off of 28 Days Later that it was off putting. It’s true Walking Dead has a lot of flaws(eg. if the CDC uses a fuel air explosive for decontamination then why not repurpose that fuel to run the generators?), but it is early yet and the zombie apocalypse genre requires a lot of suspension of disbelief, but the characters and their chemistry make it worth watching.

Comment #2: pablo  on  12/06  at  08:31 PM

I got as far as the wife-beating episode and then craziness at work knocked me off watching it. I wasn’t really impressed enough to hunt it down and catch up, although you make it sound like it finds its stride a little later.

Comment #3: LC  on  12/06  at  08:35 PM

I made it through one volume of the comic and considered lighting it on fire at the end. I wanted to punch the hero in the face. He’s right about everything and everyone who disagrees is demonstrated to be wrong in ways that reinforce the author’s values. The guy I borrowed the book and his roommate were both in agreement with me about how irritating the writing, from dialogue to plot, was.

So I’m reluctant to give the TV show a chance- the book was just so, so bad in my eyes. You were way more generous towards it than I felt.

Comment #4: Maple  on  12/06  at  08:43 PM

Sporting goods stores and Wallmart keep a very small selection of guns; the gold mine would be a gun shop in the city or serious hunting stores like Bass Pro Shop which are more common on the absolute fringes of the suburban donut and completely outside it. But I’m glad you brought up the thing about how empty the area around Atlanta is portrayed. Where are the fields and forests they’re camping in? Are they hanging out in a park? The closest great swaths of farmland are an hour away at the university fields in Athens. I don’t think Kirkman bother to research the location at all so the show was a nice improvement just by being filmed here. And those empty shots of 285? Creepy. as. fuck.

Comment #5: scrumby  on  12/06  at  08:55 PM

The wife-beating episode was the most blatant demonstration of just how badly these survivors eke out an existence.  The wife-beating loser happily sat on his ass all day.  How does a community tolerate that in such a bleak scenario?  In the zombie apocalypse, you work or you don’t eat.

The “Vatos” episode may as well have been written by Paul Haggis.

Comment #6: keshmeshi  on  12/06  at  08:55 PM

That’s a remarkably shallow and unfair criticism, Pablo.

As an artist, I get really tired of the idea that because two things are similar, whichever thing came second must have “ripped-off” the first. I might be sensitive to this if the first thing were obscure and the makers of the second thing felt they could get away with making the idea their own, but that’s not the case, here or in most instances of “rip-off” accusations.

There is something to be said for referencing more well known scenes or situations, ESPECIALLY when done within a genre. It’s something artists do all the time. Borrowing, when done well (and not hidden), is a way of establishing the heritage of a work.

That said, I haven’t read the books (though I intend to) so I don’t know how the original author kicked things off. Glancing at the Wikipedia page for both the graphic novel and Danny Boyle’s film reveals that TWD started its run in 2003, whereas 28 Days Later was released in 2002.

If you feel Frank Darabont was attempting to take credit for Boyle’s (and Alex Garland’s) original idea, I’d like to see you make that argument. “Rip-off” accusations in and of themselves do not provide a useful critique of a work.

Comment #7: Cola82  on  12/06  at  08:59 PM

There’s a lot of things I find frustrating about this series, specifically their lack of curiousity about going to the following places to find vehicles, food, supplies, guns, ammo, & other weapons in & around Atlanta:
Private Residences
Pawn Shops
Gun Shops
Firing Ranges
Gun Clubs
Sporting goods stores
Police Stations
Sheriffs Stations
Highway Patrol Stations
National Guard Armories
Demolition Companies
Mining Companies
Grocery Stores
Gas Stations
Quickee Marts (7-11, Gas-n-Shop, Arco Mini-marts, etc.)
Automobile Dealerships
And last but not least, the handy dandy reference tool that makes finding all of these possible, a Yellow Pages Telephone Directory, available at your local library. Now supposedly this all happened relatively fast, so there shoudl be vast quantities of untouched supplies. Why are they driving around in that POS RV that overheats, when there are probably hundreds of new RVs quietly rusting away in auto lots?

These walkers have behavior that is so predictable I can’t believe that they haven’t run up against a dedicated group of redneck shitkickers systematically wiping them out in large groups. Here’s how it’s done:
Step 1. Round up sufficient quantities of explosives, grenades, rockets
Step 2. Designate a target area to be blown up in vicinity of large group of walkers
Step 3. Lure said walkers with loud noises such as car alarms or sirens
Step 4. Box them in to said area.
Step 5. When sufficient target density is reached, hit the button & cover your ears.
(They blowed up real good, Earl!)
Again if this happened fast, then the military should be a good source for these types of materials, I fail to understand why they blithely walk right by military emplacements, tanks, & other areas without rat-fucking them to find all useful weapons & ammo. (Pick up that fucking M-16 at least!) Where would they be if Rick hadn’t pocketed that grenade? In little tiny fuel-charred pieces that’s where!
Christ, I’d find as many as I could, and then just sit there tossing them down the street until the bodies piled up so high that the walkers couldn’t get over them. Let’s hope the second season starts sooner than next October, features a more realistic scenario for survival, and doesn’t have so many blatantly stupid McGuffins sewn into the plot. This whole show has a limited lifespan anyway, seriously how long can the walkers last given that they’re dead & decaying flesh? One year? Two at best? Where are the hordes of insects & other parasites having a field day?

Comment #8: Stentor  on  12/06  at  09:01 PM

I like the show generally – especially the pilot, which, while it hits a lot of the same bits 28 Days Later did, benefited greatly from the slowed-down pace – but, there have been a number of things that have frustrated me about it:

- the stock zombie-movie inter-human paranoia seems shoehorned in; I never buy it when two survivor groups immediately pull their guns on one another and have Tense Standoff Time instead of greeting each other with open arms – it hasn’t really been established at all why people would be so paranoid of each other. I especially didn’t buy the standoff with the Last CDC Guy

- I honestly think the gender roles in the show have remained kind of problematic. The women do things like hug children, follow the men around, give up and die; and the men do things like punch each other and go off on missions and make decisions. They haven’t talked about it since the wife-beating episode, but it’s still there. Compare Lori’s behavior on this show with Roslin’s on BSG, for example

- I want a better explanation of how the zombie apocalypse went down. Zombie movies have the excuse of limited running time. A TV series does not. Handwave handwave “we don’t have time to talk about that now” only works for so long

- many of the episodes have a part that’s facepalmingly awkward, or just about: the Hispanic gangsters with the hearts of gold, the women-bonding bit in the wife-beating episode… the “let’s get all the survivors drunk and see what hijinks ensue” in the finale came kind of close to that, as well.

It has so far been a pretty fun show to watch, besides all that.

Comment #9: brandon  on  12/06  at  09:43 PM

In zombie scenarios like TWD, where the zombies shamble about very slowly, I have a hard time taking them seriously as a threat and don’t see how they can multiply so fast as to essentially take over the world in a matter of days.  Conveniently, we never see this happen.  Instead, the story skips to a land already overrun with zombies, so we’re pretty much presented with a fait accompli.  With a 28 Days Later scenario, it’s much more plausible because the infected have been exposed to a “rage” virus that makes them hyper aggressive and fast.  The only way I can imagine slow zombies spreading so quickly is if the initial point of infection was something like a virus or bacteria transmitted by mosquito bites which created multiple zombies over a large geographic area in a short period of time, resulting in law enforcement, the military and public health agencies being overwhelmed and overstretched.  Then again, I never read the comic series, so I don’t know if it ever is ever explained.

[Spoiler alert]

Re: the night attack on the camp at the end of episode 4, all I could think of was “Why the hell didn’t these people erect some sort of perimeter fence or barricade to keep out the walkers?”  After all, Shane had law enforcement experience.

I was disappointed that Michael Rooker’s Merle character was reduced to just a cardboard stereotype.  I kept expecting him to reappear at some crucial point in the story.  I’m guessing he might show up next season, otherwise what’s the point of him having cut off his own hand to escape from being hand-cuffed?

Also up in the air is whether the father and son who helped Rick in episode 1 are still alive and will meet up with Rick and the other survivors.

For all it’s flaws though, I did stick with TWD and watched every episode.  If they had ended the finale a few minutes earlier, they could have made it a cliffhanger ending with the clock still ticking to decontamination.

Comment #10: Tommykey  on  12/06  at  09:45 PM

I’m loving this show! I figured that maybe people had already looted gun/ammo shops from the very beginning, so supplies are kind of low. Either way, I’m willing to suspend belief about a lot of stuff for the sake of entertainment.  My partner was all up in arms over the fact that one of the characters had a premonition in a dream, but it’s a show about zombies, how realistic does it have to be?

I did notice in one scene they used some music that was in the 28 weeks later film, but it’s good music, so I couldn’t blame them.

I haven’t seen the last episode yet. Can’t wait!

Comment #11: maja  on  12/06  at  09:48 PM

I haven’t watched by 10 minutes of one of the middle episodes so I’m not really in any position to comment, but didn’t some network try something similar to this (i.e. post-apocalypse teevee) a couple of years ago? Wasn’t it called “Jericho”?

Comment #12: Hornet  on  12/06  at  09:56 PM

Word on the supply-gathering. I wanted to reach through the screen and shake them as they agonized over whether or not to take the unicorn necklace. If I was in charge, the entire contents of the store would have been in the back of the truck. Maybe with an influx of new clothes the survivors wouldn’t have had to spend so much of their day scrubbing laundry.

For me, the whole sow has been a loose metaphor for the econopocalypse. I was lucky enough to hang onto my job when a lot of people haven’t, and my survivor guilt is running deep.

Comment #13: ttintagel  on  12/06  at  10:18 PM

I hope I can do the same for Breaking Bad when it comes back.

OMFG, I love that show.

Comment #14: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/06  at  10:22 PM

I loved the pilot but the show went down hill and continued to decline. While there were some great moments, I can’t exactly call this a great show. We had a viewing party for the finale, in the hopes that the uneven writing would even out, but last night was super disappointing. Even with only six episodes, the writers and even Darabont or the network should’ve known to give it a better ending than that, at least in the event it could serve as a mini-series finale if they wanted to hedge their bets on a second season.

And, ***SPOILER***Not to mention every glass window on each of those cars should’ve exploded, but I digress.

Quite frankly I got tired of the so-called “character” moments in the episodes (spending an entire opening talking about fishing knots to establish backstory, really?) and Rick is just as annoying here as in the comics. Of course we knew he was right about the CDC, then again, Rick’s right about fucking EVERYTHING so even if we didn’t know he still would’ve been right. It’s going to become very boring unless they shake the character up.

Don’t even get me started on wasting Michael Roker or the Vatos episode with deus ex grandma. And yes, every time someone complained about a lack of food or gas I would grab my hair in despair cause there’s food all over the fucking place. A majority of the state is dead! Raid any house for canned goods! There’s an entire interstate of abandoned cars!

Though one of the enjoyable things about it has been a flikr page called The Walking Not So Smart which hits the problems of the show perfectly.

Comment #15: UltraMagnus  on  12/06  at  10:24 PM

These walkers have behavior that is so predictable I can’t believe that they haven’t run up against a dedicated group of redneck shitkickers systematically wiping them out in large groups.

Interestingly, this obvious result of a zombie invasion was acknowledged by the first Night of the Living Dead.  I agree, and also quarrel with the idea that the military would be so unable to handle any enemy that is not armed and not particularly bright.  What I liked about 28 Days Later was they actually dealt with the military question, albeit in a way that is not flattering to the culture of the military.

Comment #16: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/06  at  10:32 PM

Also, you can’t tell me a bunch of rednecks wouldn’t immediately use a zombie invasion to build a turret gun in the back of a pick-up.  I mean, why wouldn’t you?

Comment #17: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/06  at  10:35 PM

I am loving it and hating it at once. I’m only through ep 4, though.
And yeah, Deus Ex Abuela got me exactly like she was suppoed to.
It’s wrenching, but in all the weird little places. It’s not the big teary reunion scene that got me, it was the wondering if he’s going to have to put the wife and kid down in the next episode or later.

I just posted on it today
http://valarltd.livejournal.com/1272619.html


But three hours of it at a go is probably too much.
Did I mention I love Norman Reedus’ flexibility?

Comment #18: Angelia Sparrow  on  12/06  at  10:39 PM

I figured that maybe people had already looted gun/ammo shops from the very beginning, so supplies are kind of low.

There are like two guns per person in this country.  There is no way on earth that supplies would run low.  Zombie movies make more sense in Europe on those grounds alone.

Comment #19: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/06  at  10:41 PM

I do like The Walking Dead and, no, I haven’t read the comic book.  Comic books are expensive.  I got into them for a little while, but they’re a money pit.

Still, on a few issues.

Resources.  Just organize the survivors quickly enough and carving out a no-zombie zone should be easy.  Guns are everywhere, zombies (at least this type) are incredibly predictable.  So, no argument there.

Still, on other issues, I will say this about the immediate “at each other’s throats"ness.  Thinking that humans will be all nice and rosie with each other while under extreme duress kind of ignores the way we are to each other when things are going well.  We, as a species, are full of jerks.  We’re so full of jerks that sometimes you have to assume jerk ahead of time and not give the chance to not be.  The more the pressure on people, the more likely they are to take it out on you.  Sorry, that means pointing guns and pretending to be tougher than you are are just survival techniques.

On the “how did it get this bad” realm.  Yeah, I would like more explanation, but Max Brooks gave us a plausible scenario.  Infected Chinese Political Prisoners being carved up alive for organ transplants elsewhere.  So, smuggled in organs, hearts, lungs, corneas, etc can spread infection past borders very quickly.  In addition to that, those countries most suseptable to this kind of infection are more likely to be poor countries where people sneak accross boarders to richer ones for work.  Combine that with a refusal, of those in authority, to believe that it’s happening and it could very easily just be a matter hours to a couple nights before the infection gets too large to handle.

In general, though, I’ve read Max Brooks’s Zombie Survival Guide, I’ve got a good idea what to do.

Comment #20: WingedBeast  on  12/06  at  11:02 PM

Tommykey @10:

A highly contagious disease with a long, asymptomatic latency period would also work: by the time people started to show symptoms, they would have already spread it to lots of people, so the epidemic would go pretty fast once it started and lots of people would die.

It’s not a very TV-friendly solution, granted. But I daresay it’s more realistic.

Comment #21: mr_subjunctive  on  12/06  at  11:03 PM

I’m loving it while groaning loudly at all the problems:
1) Guns. Even if Atlanta was really as isolated from any other small towns as the show would like us to believe, Glenn sneaks in there often enough to be able to amass a good arsenal just by taking weapons from all the dead military guys and their vehicles.
2) Racist rednecks are racist! I mean, really. Merle is such a caricature. Also, why would the rest of the survivors tolerate him? Risk their lives to go back to Atlanta for someone that abhorrent? Right.
3) Military failure. I guess the first wave of the walkers would’ve taken enough people by surprise. But in the hospital flashback, we see military gun down patients. So they already knew by then. The walkers are slow. Don’t tell me they can overrun a tank, let alone many tanks, let alone helicopters, bombers, etc. Now, in The Passage the virals are super strong and fast, so it’s believable that the vampire virus spread fast. Here, not so much.
4) Supplies. It seems like it’s only been a few months. So, yes, the perishable items are probably gone, but what about the canned stuff?
5) Vehicles. Even in the last episode, there are military vehicles, buses, all kinds cars all over the place. Why are they in that shitty camper? I wouldn’t be surprised if the walkers over-ran that one! Take a bus, anything! Gas also shouldn’t be a huge issue with all those cars abandoned all over the place.
6) Why were they so aggressive in questioning Jenner? I get that they were disappointed in not finding what they had hoped for. But turning on Rick would have made more sense, since he’s the one who dragged them out there.
7) When CDC went boom, all the windows on the surrounding cars should’ve blown out.

So, yeah, lots of problems, but I’m hooked. I think the first episode was brilliant. It was similar 28 Days Later, but Rick’s reaction was a bit more believable and they really had me at those doors with “Dead Inside” scrawled on them. The image of lone guy in sheriff wear riding a horse on an empty highway with a destroyed city in the distance? How good was that?! I was hoping for more of that, but I’m still looking forward to next season.

Comment #22: elena  on  12/06  at  11:23 PM

One of the things I vaguely remember about the RPG “All Flesh Must Be Eaten” is that it had lots of different zombie apocalypse scenarios to play with, each tweaking some of these problems of how it could happen.

Comment #23: LC  on  12/06  at  11:27 PM

As a fan of zombie flicks, as well as one of the few who thought the TV mini-series of Stephen King’s The Stand was enjoyable, I loved it.

As far as guns go, yeah, they’d be everywhere.  Ammo?  More difficult question.  Depends on how much was already used.  Remember, what we’re seeing is already a month after the shit hit the fan.  There could have been a lot used already.

Food?  Sure, the walkers ain’t eating it, but most areas of the country only have a few day’s food on the shelves. And when society grinds to a halt, there won’t be any more made/delivered.  Similar problem with gas/diesel.  And a long line of cars stuck on a road, each of which is empty/near-empty won’t do anyone any good.  (It looked to me like the cars stuck on the way out of Atlanta were supposed to have burned, which is another way to lose the fuel.)

OTOH, why keep the motorhome, the big truck, the SUVs, etc., running when a good Honda Fit would go three-four times as far on a gallon of nobody’s-making-any-more fuel, and a Prius would go even farther.  Dump the automotive dinosaurs and get smart.  And are they too damn good to ride bikes?

And if the vatos can stay alive in the city, why couldn’t the others?  And of you’re going to get out of the city, then get the fuck out — don’t hang around so close the walkers can come and eat you.

And hello?  Why stay on the mainland when there are serviceable islands around, worst case in the Caribbean, that have food and water, and represent a finite space that can be completely cleared of “geeks”?  Get thee to the coast, find a good sailboat (little/no fuel needed) and get the hell out of Dodge…

All-in-all, enjoyable.  Thank you, AMC…

Comment #24: MikeEss  on  12/06  at  11:37 PM

I hope, like with zombie movies that get done and re-done, that someone else gets an opportunity to put their spin on a TV treatment of a zombie apocalypse.  A zombie apocalypse is a really compelling premise for a TV show, but I feel like TWD is making a hash of it.  I watch it, and I find it compelling.  But so many parts (as discussed above) are face-palmingly bad.

I had a hard time with the romantic relationship between Shane and Lori right off the bat.  Shitting behind trees, sleeping on the ground, no access to showers, constantly on edge that you’re going to be attacked by zombies, just lost all your friends and loved ones - doesn’t seem to lend itself to steamy passion.

Comment #25: Wallace  on  12/06  at  11:54 PM

The zombies are a distraction. This is really a survival series; dealing with how different people react to the apocalypse. I read the first 6 collections of the comic & I don’t know how much darker it can get. For a really good novel treatment of the same subject, I recommend Max Brooks’ (son of Mel Brooks) World War Z.

Comment #26: Jim Palmer  on  12/07  at  12:00 AM

MikeEss: I love love love The Stand. Also, really enjoyed The Walking Dead, problems abound but still good.

Comment #27: sizzle  on  12/07  at  12:15 AM

I will say this about the immediate “at each other’s throats"ness.  Thinking that humans will be all nice and rosie with each other while under extreme duress kind of ignores the way we are to each other when things are going well.  We, as a species, are full of jerks.  We’re so full of jerks that sometimes you have to assume jerk ahead of time and not give the chance to not be.  The more the pressure on people, the more likely they are to take it out on you.  Sorry, that means pointing guns and pretending to be tougher than you are are just survival techniques.

But but but there is a “them” to take it all out on and they’re absolutely everywhere. That has a unifying effect – and in the absence of a) undetectable nascent zombies or b) people gonna jack your shit – neither of which the show has particularly demonstrated – the obligatory gunpoint showdowns feel… pretty obligatory. It’s a genre homage that feels out of place.

Comment #28: brandon  on  12/07  at  12:24 AM

I realize, reading this, that one reason I love zombie stories is the process of judging the characters and wondering what you would do in their situation.  It’s like watching reality TV without the moral implications.

Comment #29: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/07  at  12:30 AM

Wallace, I disagree.  If human beings needed to be in low-stress situations with plenty of access to soap and hot water to want to fuck, then the human race would have died out a long time ago.

Comment #30: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/07  at  12:31 AM

brandon’s right—-the constant theme of human history isn’t “people are nasty”, it’s that “people are tribal”.  The difference is more minute in a relatively civilized situation where minor differences (religious rituals, skin color) get exaggerated.  If there’s an outside threat, less of our attention would be paid towards internal differences, because everyone would be focused on the giant difference between the living and the dead.  I think it would actually make racism moot, particularly in a society like ours where it’s already considered distasteful.

Comment #31: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/07  at  12:35 AM

amanda

now we are going to bury you…
____________________________

And the lesson from all of this? DOUBLE!
____________________________


What do you want, you little ****ers?

more of these idiots


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4C5yzFmC80

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal

HOW N WON ALL THE PARANORMAL PRIZES!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostradamus


pz myers does not exist…

http://richarddawkins.net/discussions/543672-inhertitance-of-acquired-behaviour-adaptions-and-brain-gene-expression-in-chickens

atheists, we’re gonna cut off your heads…

THE HIGH PRICE OF REVOLUTION

http://www.youtube.com/user/xviolatex?feature=mhum

Comment #32: uzuzuz  on  12/07  at  12:38 AM

TWD is good, but World War Z is really the pinnacle of all zombie stories for me. If there was a WWZ TV show…oh my god.

Comment #33: Entomologista  on  12/07  at  12:40 AM

What would it mean to be gay in such a situation vis-a-vis the continuation of the species? As a gay man, I think I could take one for the team, but how would a lesbian feel about it?

Comment #34: draeton  on  12/07  at  12:50 AM

It’s been okay in parts and dumb in parts. There has been some godawful writing, especially in that last episode. My favorite worst line last night may have been Jenner’s: “I lost someone, too.” (Yeh, unlike all the other schmucks in the room.)

PS—I absolutely don’t understand the accusation that the opening episode “ripped off” 28 Days Later. If you’re referring to the opening scene, where he wakes up in a hospital, you’ll find the same basic scene opening up Resident Evil. They’re all homages to the original: John Wyndham’s 1951 book Day of the Triffids, which begins with Wiliam Masen waking up in a hospital room, unaware that the world as he knows it has come to an end. True, it might be time to come up with a new homage, but Alex Garland and Danny Boyle didn’t invent the scene themselves.

Comment #35: dcloycesmith  on  12/07  at  01:03 AM

I’m a huge AMC fan but this show has really let me down.  The writing and acting are both sub-par.  I wasn’t expecting something equal to Mad Men or Breaking Bad in quality, but I certainly expected better than we got.

In fact, outside of the unfortunately canceled Terriers, this entire fall TV season has been a big let-down.

Comment #36: dead souls  on  12/07  at  01:18 AM

Brandon/Amanda.  People are nasty to each other, even within Tribe.  And, people are often quite Tribal.

But, one of the key aspects of a zombie apocalypse, or any apocalypse scenario from Ambercrombie Apocalypse to Zombie Apocalypse, is a lack of supplies.

Fresh water, fuel, food (perishable supplies will end and for a good sized group your average fully stocked grocery store will last a few weeks without restocking and pre-apocalyptic store runs will drop that dramatically) and other supplies will become an issue, unless you have a replenishable supply.  All of this, on top of the general “they’re going to kill us” sense of the zombie apocalypse.

I answer phones in customer service for a living.  People take the frustration of a 15 minute hold and a 15 cent charge as pressure enough to cause them to attack me with all manner of threats.  I don’t hold out faith for humanity to respond to the end of the world with a reasoned sense of “well, we need to share what we’ve got in order to combine forces”.

By the way, an Ambercrombie Apocalypse is when society is destroyed by preppy clothes with a lack of diversity.

Comment #37: WingedBeast  on  12/07  at  01:40 AM

PS—I absolutely don’t understand the accusation that the opening episode “ripped off” 28 Days Later. If you’re referring to the opening scene, where he wakes up in a hospital, you’ll find the same basic scene opening up Resident Evil. They’re all homages to the original: John Wyndham’s 1951 book Day of the Triffids, which begins with Wiliam Masen waking up in a hospital room, unaware that the world as he knows it has come to an end. True, it might be time to come up with a new homage, but Alex Garland and Danny Boyle didn’t invent the scene themselves.

I have been outnerded! Thank you, dcloycesmit, for that information.

I’m much more sensitive to the idea of homages having been so often that they’ve become cliché than I am to the notion that any similarities between to works of art (fiction, music, illustration) is always nefarious in some fashion. The hospital opening didn’t leave a huge impact on me as an homage, although I felt that it was especially well played in and of itself. It’s just that, as someone who spends a lot of time around children with too much talent and almost no formal education, I hear the “rip-off” accusation on a daily basis. It’s become a bit of a pet-peeve mine, as I feel it stands in the way of more meaningful analysis (and that it’s kind of smug and self-flattering, too).

Comment #38: Cola82  on  12/07  at  02:08 AM

OTOH, why keep the motorhome, the big truck, the SUVs, etc., running when a good Honda Fit would go three-four times as far on a gallon of nobody’s-making-any-more fuel, and a Prius would go even farther.  Dump the automotive dinosaurs and get smart.  And are they too damn good to ride bikes?

Skip the shiny little toys that rely completely on refined gasoline and an electrical grid that will have ceased to function and pick up something with a diesel engine. Things like lawn mowers and weed eaters run of diesel so a run through any neighborhood should turn up quite a few cans. If you’re siphoning you have access to the larger tanks in big rigs and heavy equipment. Most importantly a diesel engine can run off a variety of unrefined fuel sources including organics like vegetable oil.

Comment #39: scrumby  on  12/07  at  02:12 AM

Damn. I obliviously asked for the comic for Christmas, but now I’m thinking it’ll annoy me.

Comment #40: Mayday  on  12/07  at  02:49 AM

I have enjoyed it for the most part but I agree some of the characters have fallen into obvious reductive stereotypes. More then anything, and I think the finale does this the most, I think the show has done an amazing job of setting up a feeling of hopelessness and despair that would occur in such a nightmarish situation.
I can’t remember anything as terrifying on TV as the end of the episode “Vatos”. I totally wasn’t expecting it and it was horrific and absolutely gruesome.
One thing that is bothering me, that maybe some of you who have read the comics can clear up for me, the show hasn’t really begun to address what caused the zombie outbreak or how the outbreak has affected other parts of the world. In the finale, there is some attention to the idea of it as an illness and some mention of France, but still its pretty vague…

Comment #41: AdamN  on  12/07  at  02:55 AM

“Re: the night attack on the camp at the end of episode 4, all I could think of was “Why the hell didn’t these people erect some sort of perimeter fence or barricade to keep out the walkers?”

Actually, it was shown that they HAD made a little tripwire perimeter on the forest side of the camp, with old cans tied to it that would clank if anything shuffled into it. Apparently they didn’t hear it (or the walkers came up from the road, rather than the woods).

Comment #42: Pietoro  on  12/07  at  06:27 AM

A couple of thoughts-

-Scavenging fuel is likely a dead end. From the looks of the lineup of cars on the freeway, everyone burned it all idling in a hurricane Katrina-style evacuation (though, strangely, no one seems to have thought to drive out on the inbound lanes…)

-Where did all the flies and crows go? They were used to great dramatic effect in the pilot. How come the leave the walkers alone?

-To expand on what MikeEss said at 24- I read somewhere (might have been a gun magazine, I’m not sure) that the US produces about 9 billion rounds of ammuntion a year, in all calibers. That sounds like a lot, but it’s only on the order of 30 rounds per (living) American, or about 15 rounds per gun, assuming there are two per person in the country. I have nothing to back it up, but I suspect that for every survivalist who hoards ammo by the case, there are ten guys who can open and close the hunting season with a few rounds, and buy their ammunition accordingly. Looking for ammo would definitely be a crapshoot.

Comment #43: illdoittomorrow  on  12/07  at  09:41 AM

Oh, and uzuzuz@32: WTF?

Comment #44: illdoittomorrow  on  12/07  at  09:42 AM

dcloycesmith, thanks for pointing that out.  What really irritated me the most about the whole 28 Days Later controversy (which blew up back when they were published) was the comic creators claiming that there’s absolutely no way they were inspired by other works when they came up with their opening conceit….saying things like, “I hadn’t even SEEN the movie,” or “We came up with the story idea back in 1999,” etc.  It’s when authors refuse to admit that their ideas come from other places that really sticks in my craw.  I haven’t seen Day of the Triffids but it makes sense to me that a scene like that would be iconic enough to stick in the minds of writers and likely influenced both Boyle and Kirkland.

I don’t know why they are so intent on defending the whole hospital coma plotline, anyway.  It may be an interesting hook to start things out but the more they try to explain it the less plausible it becomes.  As we discovered in the finale’s flashback scene, Rick was alone in a non-powered hospital in Kentucky with no fluids whatsoever for the duration of Shane and Lori’s trip to Atlanta in addition to the time they’ve been camped outside of it.  Rick would have died of dehydration before he ever woke up.

Like others here, I love zombie stories.  I just wish they were done better.

Comment #45: Blitzgal  on  12/07  at  10:19 AM

I appreciate that both Amanda and commenters are not afraid of using the phrase “comic book” as opposed to the high-falutin’ “graphic novel.”

Comment #46: Cris  on  12/07  at  03:03 PM

I really like the show, though I agree with a lot of the flaws listed. Lack of guns, the military being wiped out, driving POS vehicles…I have also been really wondering when the zombie appocolypse started. Given Rick waking up in the hospital, it couldn’t have been very long (28 days?) but yet the entire world is wiped out? Definitely an area where I have to supspend belief.

Comment #47: Olivia  on  12/07  at  03:22 PM

I almost didn’t make it through the opening 10 minute misogyny-fest, and I’ve found the gender treatment pretty bad, but I have watched them all.  Second to last episode actually had two named women discussing their childhoods without reference to a romantic male—although their dad was the main point.

I like Glenn.  That’s it.  Rick is about the dumbest guy around, and most of the others are worthless.  I watched it with my husband and said “When the Zombie Apocalypse comes, we’re ditching the racists and the wife-beaters.  We’re not hanging out with them.  You’ll just have to kill them eventually.”

We don’t understand why they told the rest of the camp the truth about Merle the Racist.  ON that drive back in the truck, they should have talked it over and agreed that simply telling them Merle didn’t make it was good enough.  B/c seriously?  Nothing was gained by telling the truth there.

My theory about this zombie-fication is that it’s two-fold.  There’s an airborne virus that causes reanimation.  The zombie bite is NOT the transmission—>that just gives you a fever death virus, not dissimilar from being bitten by a komodo dragon.  Maybe a bite can act as a catalyst to the zombie virus, but it’s not the only form of transmission.

Who knows how long ago the Zombie virus got out?  There’s no symptoms until you die, at which point you reanimate.  Unexpected!

It’s going to hurt the medical profession first, b/c their the ones closest to the dead/dying bodies. Same with LEO.  They’ll assume it’s the bites, b/c you get sick from the bites, but then they turn their backs on the unbitten dead…who also reanimate.  Soon there’s enough zombies that the remaining people think that it’s just the bitten who rise.

Jenner’s wife died from a bite, and then she reanimated.

think Jenner told Rick that everyone’s infected.

Comment #48: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  12/07  at  03:51 PM

These walkers have behavior that is so predictable I can’t believe that they haven’t run up against a dedicated group of redneck shitkickers systematically wiping them out in large groups.

I spent a couple of years in eastern Texas as a kid, and I remember watching guys at the state park sitting at the edge of a lake, dangling their feet in the water to make the gators lunge at them, then pulling back at the last second.  And drinking beer, of course.  And throwing the beer cans at the gators.  THIS WOULD HAPPEN WITH ZOMBIES.

As Amanda notes, it’s one of the things “Night of the Living Dead” gets right.  Thanks, Pennsylvania rednecks!  Mira Grant’s novel Feed also has people baiting the undead for kicks.

Comment #49: Shaenon  on  12/07  at  04:30 PM

Can I just take a moment to wonder why anyone would bother to give their epidemiologist character a name as freighted as “Ed Jenner,” and then pay it off by making him the typical “scientific suicide?” (e.g., someone who succumbs to fatalism because they root themselves in facts and probabilities rather than faith and hope?)

Comment #50: lodger  on  12/07  at  05:17 PM

Olivia, when Jenner is making his video he says something like, “63 days since Wildfire abruptly went global,” if that helps.  He said another span of days before that since the disease was first identified but I don’t remember that number.  I think it’s believable that a disease that keeps the dead going and infecting people could go global, especially since it has a slower kill rate than the rage virus in 28 Days Later.  In that movie, we saw at the end that the disease was largely confined to the UK, being island nations, because infection hit within seconds so obviously infected people would make it onto planes, etc because they’d be raging before they ever boarded.  But this zombie virus takes hours.  You only need one person to make it across the ocean by plane to start infecting other continents.

I think the crap that Shane was spewing at the beginning of the series was to make it clear to the audience that he was an asshat before the world ended and that it’s going to make him that much more dangerous now that his stress levels are off the charts.  Shane’s unraveling is done far better in the television series than in the comics, where he just snaps instantly and is just as instantly….um, taken care of.  Spoiler?

Comment #51: Blitzgal  on  12/07  at  05:44 PM

Thanks to all for the spoiler alerts—I haven’t seen any episodes yet.

My favorite zombie movies are the Resident Evil series (well, and Zombieland)—how does this compare with them?  And yes, I know I just opened myself up to ridicule—it’s still true.

Comment #52: xebecs  on  12/07  at  05:48 PM

*ugh, that should be “infected people would NOT make it onto planes” in 28 Days Later since infection rate was only around thirty seconds in that movie.

Comment #53: Blitzgal  on  12/07  at  05:48 PM

I’d rather NOT know the cause of the outbreak, It’s far scarier that way. That’s one of the main reasons I don’t like Stephen King’s work - he explains everything to death. Once something becomes familiar and understood, it’s not very scary anymore.

Comment #54: ttintagel  on  12/07  at  05:56 PM

Ugh, Zombieland.  Started off very promising, then just turned into your basic geek male bullshit wet dream where the only woman left alive is GORGEOUS and obviously falls madly in love with the writer….er, protagonist.  And you have two sisters who are at first portrayed as utterly self-sufficient and kick ass, until the point that the plot requires them to become damsels in distress for the boys to save, so they inexplicably make the moronic decision to turn on a bunch of carnival rides which of course lures every zombie in the tri-state area.

I hate that movie.

Comment #55: Blitzgal  on  12/07  at  05:57 PM

I’m with Caren on the nature of the virus/pathogen and its latency. I think somehow, EVERYONE including the living are already infected and that the bite is merely a catalyst. I also think this was (part of) what Jenner whispered, though i also think he mentioned something else that i’ll let everyone ponder before i revisit this comment thread

Comment #56: MadRaven  on  12/07  at  06:07 PM

That’s a remarkably shallow and unfair criticism, Pablo.

Sorry. I didn’t realize that I was supposed to be writing a dissertation on tropes or archetypes. I was simply noting a degree of similarity to another recent film of the same genre.

Comment #57: pablo  on  12/07  at  08:06 PM

“Where did all the flies and crows go? They were used to great dramatic effect in the pilot. How come the leave the walkers alone?”

Because the walkers don’t just eat people, they will attack and eat animals as well. Though that doesn’t explain why the bugs avoid them.

In World War Z, it was explained that the ‘virus’ was so abhorrent that even bacteria refused to touch any tissue infected with it, hence why zombie decay was so much slower than would be normal for a corpse.

Zombie movies require just as much suspension of belief as a superhero movie or anything else in the ‘science fantasy’ genre. The overlay of science-y sounding reasonings don’t hold up for zombies anymore than it does for why Superman flies and has laser eyes. You’re just supposed to accept it.

Comment #58: Pietoro  on  12/07  at  08:12 PM

Ugh, Zombieland.

I suppose you are mostly right.  I just loved the main character for his OCD approach to survival.  And I liked the whole Bill Murray thing, though the end result was really, really obvious.

Comment #59: xebecs  on  12/07  at  09:48 PM

SPOLERS

I read somewhere that in the comics everyone is infected. When somebody dies, she/he reanimates, regardless of the cause of death. When Rick asked Jenner about the blood, didn’t he say that the results weren’t unexpected? He didn’t say that everyone was OK. That’s what I think he whispers to Rick at the end; everyone is already infected.

Comment #60: elena  on  12/07  at  10:01 PM

There are an awful lot of unanimated dead people lying around in Atlanta, though. Are they all supposed to have died from brain trauma?

Comment #61: Pietoro  on  12/07  at  10:33 PM

Re: comics to show,  I wanted to read these for a while, but waited until midway through the season run.  The comic that covers the length of the show is ten dollars.  The show is definitely better,  but who knows where the comic goes after that,  there are 15 volumes out now. 

I think the point of making rick such an unlikeable wooden dudley do right is that he is supposed to be the high water mark in all of this,  the person who still retains the most society and lawfulness.  Maybe,  like I said,  ive seen/read as much as you have.

Comment #62: pasteymachine  on  12/07  at  11:36 PM

Chet,
Sufficient target density includes calculations for the blast radius not be exceeded by the number of walkers. In other words, I’m not going to let too many get in there, just enough to get torn to shreds by the blast radius, not the pressure wave. That’s why I said dedicated, this indicates that group members have roles to play, baiters who lure the walkers into the area, herders who then box them in, setters who place the charges & det cord then bug out to prepare for the next round, guards who ensure people can do their jobs without being attacked or overrun if the geeks get through a line, poppers who after being given the all clear blow the walkers into bits, and finally the clean-up guys, usually the guards with shotguns who can come in and terminate with extreme prejudice any of the walkers that are still moving with a blast to the noggin, my favorite is the 12-gauge Remington Wingmaster, a six-shot capacity pump action wood-handled beauty with a rubber buttstock.

The WD zombies are canonical, in that the brain must be destroyed to kill them - with the exception of a few individuals closest to the blast who will probably be dismembered, it’s not likely that many of the zombies in your box will actually be killed. The ones closest to the blast are going to shield the ones behind them, and the likelihood of a shrapnel penetration of the skull drops by the square of the distance from the blast origin.

You obviously have not blown too many things up. We used to have a saying in the Marine Corps, “There are few problems that cannot be solved without a suitable application of high explosives.” That problem can be easily solved by staggering the charges in a loose circle to increase the blast radius, or in a line and setting them off one by one as you force the geeks into a narrow enough area so that they’re not outside the blast radius. Believe me, there are more than enough ways to dismember every one of them so that the ones still moving can be dispatched with a shot to the head.
As for the camp perimeter, what works well for live targets would also work on the geeks, that is block off the usual lines of approach, clearly CLEARLY mark the trip wires with BIG ARROWS & SIGNS for the booby-traps since the geeks won’t read or even see them, but live people will, and then line the open avenues with Claymores, those lovely mines that shoot out a small concentration of steel ball bearings, enough to cut the feet off of any walkers unlucky enough to trip them. Supplement with log crushers, those traps that swing a big heavy log through a small space, and you would have a much more fortified encampment.

Comment #63: Stentor  on  12/08  at  01:06 AM

Sorry. I didn’t realize that I was supposed to be writing a dissertation on tropes or archetypes. I was simply noting a degree of similarity to another recent film of the same genre.

I didn’t know that an extra sentence of analysis was so difficult to muster.

“The similarities between the opening here and in 28 Days Later left a bad taste in my mouth.” is really, very hard, I know. Also, acknowledging the rest of my comment where I say that it is not, in fact, a “rip-off” is hard too.

This blog post isn’t about analysis or anything. I’ll take my attempts to say anything meaningful and log off the internet forever now.

Comment #64: Cola82  on  12/08  at  04:41 AM

*SPOILER*

I was thinking about the supply issue when they were leaving the encampment. They were passing all these remote houses where one would reasonably surmise that there would be manageable numbers of zombies (if any) and useful items such as tools, clothes, batteries, weapons and non-perishable food. Perhaps even seeds or supplies for longer term food production. I got a paused DVR and a glare from my partner because I kept yelling “Why don’t they stop?!? There’s stuff they can use!”

I know this is a suspension of disbelief issue but the “waking up in a hospital” scenario, while a dramatic and effective way to introduce a character into the plot, is really hard for me to swallow. Especially the complete lack of a urinary catheter or anyone to replace empty IVs. Please do not attack me for nit-picking, this is just my personal little quibble.

I started but did not continue reading the comics for the same reasons that Amanda and a few other people have brought up. I think I might borrow them and read them up to the current issue just to compare to the television series. I am having some continuing frustration with gender issues and the whole “law and order” attitude but I want to keep watching, especially since there are forums for discussion!

I know this is outing me as a major geek, but I have done small group zombie outbreak RPGs (they are a blast). It is fun seeing some similar situations we had to “work” through for survival playing out on a TV show.

Comment #65: HooksInMyHead  on  12/08  at  05:11 AM

Yeep! Sorry, Blitzgal. I did not read far enough to see that you had made essentially the same point about the hospital scenario.

Comment #66: HooksInMyHead  on  12/08  at  06:54 AM

Hey no prob, I’m just glad to find someone else who thought the same thing I did!  Usually I get a “it’s just a TV show” response, but I really believe that a writer can only ask so much of his or her audience when it comes to suspension of disbelief and if you throw too much nonsense in there you start losing them.  That’s just my opinion.

At least in 28 Days Later he wakes up with the IV still in him and it’s clear that society crumbled much faster, so you could believe that he’d only been alone without care for two days, max.  In the beginning of the season I thought that perhaps there were a few hospital workers who tried sticking it out to care for the few remaining patients and so Rick was only truly alone for a very brief time.  But then the finale blew that out of the water by making it clear that when Shane left him to head towards Atlanta, he was fully alone.  No one is going to survive a week without water in a Kentucky summer.  It’s just not going to happen.

Comment #67: Blitzgal  on  12/08  at  10:30 AM

Elena @ #61 nailed part of my speculation, I also think somehow that Jenner discovered thru the blood-tests that Lori is in the early stages of pregnancy…just my guess though

Comment #68: MadRaven  on  12/08  at  09:35 PM

@17 LOL-

Although the show is flawed, I am a sucker for movies and tv programs that show how people cope after society falls apart.

Comment #69: kitten parade  on  12/09  at  03:24 PM

Chet,
All you’re really interested in is poking holes in my assertions, I’m not that into zombie fiction to have read World War Z, so I have no knowledge of what you speak, but the whole suitable application thing isn’t something to be taken lightly, and your comment regarding the ‘ankle-biters’ is already taken care of by the guys with the shotguns taking out the ones with no legs. Either that or a pistol, revolver, or some handgun that can be shot from a distance through a chainlink fence into the head of any geeks that are on the gound. Ideally a setup to take them out would involve a little planning to take advantage of the natural geography of the terrain, since you’re obviously going to be in the city, why not funnel them into a wide tunnel area with chainlink fence, staggered charges, in a collapsing retreat scenario to keep drawing them in? The more you attempt to disprove my scenario, the more I have to flesh it out, and elaborate to prove you are just trying to shoot me down. Anyone with a good understanding of military tactics & strategies can come up with something designed to do the job. I’m a former Marine, and an engineer, so I think I can definitely come up with somthing that takes all of the worst-case scenarios in mind, and deal with them accordingly.

Comment #70: Stentor  on  12/10  at  06:50 PM
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