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Next entry: The performance artist gets a Harley Previous entry: McCain’s boast about upcoming debate w/Obama: he will ‘whip his you know what’

Barack Obama’s Teapot Dome?

You know, if we’re going to recycle scandals, can we at least recycle some of the more interesting and ridiculous older ones?

Suppose I told you that the Democratic presidential candidate was being accused of having an affair with a former staffer who was then allegedly shipped out of the country in order to hide the affair, all of this based on no more evidence than the fact that the staffer in question once worked for the candidate.  You’d probably think I was talking about Alexandra Polier, the staffer who didn’t have an affair with John Kerry

No, no, no, silly billy.  We’re talking about a staffer who didn’t have an affair with Barack Obama

The whispers focus on a young woman who in 2004 was hired to work on his team for his bid to become a senator.

The woman was purportedly sidelined from her duties after Senator Obama’s wife, Michelle, became convinced that he had developed a personal friendship with her.

The allegations were initially circulated in August, just two weeks before the convention at which Obama finally beat his opponent for the Democratic Party nomination, Hillary Clinton.

The woman, now 33, vigorously denies the vicious and unsubstantiated gossip.

[...]

One of the sources who has been circulating the rumours admitted never meeting the woman but claimed he has spoken to ‘a group of African American’ women who are
her friends and believe she was mistreated.

‘They said she was removed from her position and the political scene because Michelle got wind of the fact that she had a close friendship with her husband,’ the source said. ‘She disappeared, then she reappeared in the Caribbean.’

The Mail on Sunday located the woman in the Caribbean, where she now works. She denied that Mrs Obama had raised any objections to her job on the 2004 campaign.

‘No,’ she said. ‘Nothing happened. I just left ... at the end of the campaign.’

It’s not so much that it’s an incredibly conveniently timed fake rumor that’s so transparent you can see your hand through the other side of it.  It’s that is the exact same conveniently timed fake rumor with a little bit of Michelle Obama being a crazy bitch thrown in to spice it up. 

UPDATE:  Alex Polier—The Kenya Connection.  It all makes sense now.  Horrifically fucking stupid sense.

 

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 10:19 PM • (71) Comments

They’re so stupid.  Obama’s supposed to have affairs with white women, otherwise they can’t tie it to the scary black dude fears they’re pushing.

It’s sad to see them so off their game.  In 2004 they would have made up an affair with a gay member of Al-Qaeda.

Comment #1: Stephen Suh  on  10/12  at  10:56 PM

No, this is Obama we’re talking about. It would pretty much have to be an affair with Ken Mehlman, during which they plotted how he would sell his presidential administration to lobbyists.

Comment #2: paul  on  10/12  at  11:01 PM

I thought Obama had an affair with Bill Ayers.  His face is very blurry in that article if it is indeed Ayers.

Comment #3: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/12  at  11:03 PM

I can’t wait for this election to be over.  I’m losing my ability to cope with the bullshit…

Comment #4: MikeEss  on  10/12  at  11:06 PM

Off-topic but breaking: Sarah Pa-liar lying about the Troopergate ruling and continuing her quest to whip the McShame Cult into a violent frenzy.

Get this sub-human scum off my TV, off their ticket, and INTO A GODDAMNED PRISON CELL.

Comment #5: Damian  on  10/12  at  11:08 PM

Jesse, please warn us about freep links.  my mac needs a bleach job.

Comment #6: St Paul E Wog  on  10/12  at  11:14 PM

I heard a rumor that Obama has not one, but two black children.

Oh, wait. That’s the one they use for white, southern Democrats.

Comment #7: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  10/12  at  11:21 PM

...since The Daily Mail staff is so good at this locating stuff, maybe they can turn their attention to Vicki Iseman…

Comment #8: Jack K., the Grumpy Forester  on  10/12  at  11:31 PM

Frankly, I’m surprised that Obama has gone this long without an infidelity allegation. It would seem a natural type of attack for a good-looking, young, charismatic man. Also, he doesn’t give scandal-mongers much else to work with—he’s got the sort of clean record you might expect of a politician the party grew in a secret cloning vat.

Comment #9: Marc Mielke  on  10/12  at  11:39 PM

Good-Looking?  Charisma, strong character, hell of a speaker - That’s Obama.  But good-looking?  My hetero male ass doesn’t see it - his ears look my my son’s.  And at least my son will grow into those coffee mug handles.

I’m frankly amazed that an infidelity allegation has take so long too.  Because attraction is more than looks.

Comment #10: idiosynchronic  on  10/13  at  12:07 AM

St. Paul E Wog, you gotta hover your mouse and vet the link before you click it, otherwise freeper-cooties attach themselves to your cookies and it’s hell to pay.

Comment #11: Eric, Rejector of Memez  on  10/13  at  12:09 AM

Has it never occurred to them that if they keep pulling the same shit over and over again, sooner or later everyone will catch on?  Do they think that you really can fool all of the people all of the time?  Wouldn’t be the first instance of them rejecting Lincoln . . .

Comment #12: rea  on  10/13  at  12:13 AM

this is hillirious:

A pro-McCain/Palin march thru Manhatten!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI

The good stalinists aren’t taking to the patriotic americans too well…

Comment #13: KLH  on  10/13  at  12:32 AM

The good stalinists aren’t taking to the patriotic americans too well…

And you would know a good Stalinist, eh Comrade?

Party- er- Country First!

Comment #14: Doug H. (Fausto no more)  on  10/13  at  12:37 AM

<>Has it never occurred to them that if they keep pulling the same shit over and over again, sooner or later everyone will catch on? </i>

This kind of stuff has worked for decades, if not longer. You use it until it doesn’t work anymore, and even then, you still might give it a shot in a depserate situation, because you just might get lucky.

Comment #15: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  10/13  at  12:39 AM

Children sing to their Dear Leader Barack Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p8tLtiTW-M

scary.

Comment #16: KLH  on  10/13  at  12:51 AM

Here’s your Palin Derangement Syndrome quote of the night, which will be ignored by the NYTimes, left-wing blogs, MSNBC, and every other media outlet continuing to force the Angry Right-Wing Mob narrative down our throats.

Swallow this:

“Outside on Broad Street, waiting for Palin to leave, one man was heard saying: “Let’s stone her, old school.”

Another protester shouted at someone entering the hotel, “Wait till your daughter wants an abortion, you hypocrite.”

So calm, so collected, so civil, those peace loving liberals….

Comment #17: KLH  on  10/13  at  12:57 AM

Scandalmongering reminds me: Isn’t Willow Brad Hanson’s love child with Sarah Palin?

Comment #18: Hector B.  on  10/13  at  01:09 AM

Children sing to their Dear Leader Barack Obama

I simply can’t take seriously members of a party who engaged in prayer to a cardboard cutout of George W. Bush. That’s really scraping the line of idolatry there.

This was several years ago. I worry that they’re the same ones screaming “terrorist” and “kill him” when Obama’s name is mentioned at McCain/Palin rallies.

Maybe when your right-wingers take care of your own youth and don’t have them engaging in demonic rituals you can perhaps deign to comment on what’s going on with the Democrats kicking your electoral ass this cycle. Until then, you are in no position to comment, because your house is in such disorder, which is the reason we have organized to toss those politicians and your decrepit ideology into the dustbin of history.

Comment #19: Tyro  on  10/13  at  01:21 AM

I love how KLH is trotting out every single outdated, overused line to try and make people listen.  “DA OBAMA CULT!”  “SOCIALISM!”  What’s next, troll, gonna say he’s a SEKRIT MOOZLEM?

Comment #20: Damian  on  10/13  at  01:25 AM

Damien,

this one is just for you:

http://porcupinerim.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/james-burge_che_guevara_and_associate.jpg

Comment #21: KLH  on  10/13  at  01:35 AM

“Good-Looking?  Charisma, strong character, hell of a speaker - That’s Obama.  But good-looking?”

A hetero female here who finds Obama VERY good-looking.  Yum.

Not that this has anything to do with my support of him.  I would still vote for him even of her were super ugly, but in my opinion he is quite handsome.

Comment #22: GumbyAnne  on  10/13  at  01:41 AM

Good-Looking?  Charisma, strong character, hell of a speaker - That’s Obama.  But good-looking?  My hetero male ass doesn’t see it

I’d hit it.

Seriously, could we make KLH’s tinfoil hat out of the top of a jiffy pop?  At least that way we would have some popcorn while we watch his conspiracy theory videos.

Comment #23: Ms Kate  on  10/13  at  01:49 AM

The good stalinists aren’t taking to the patriotic americans too well…

Y’all forgive me for letting the troll take me off-topic, but…

This is funny.  It really is.  Right-wingers love NYC when it’s a useful flag to wave, when they’re saying “Never again” and “We shall never forget” while rattling their sabers at the wrong country, but at the end of the day, we’re still the bleeding-heart liberal pinkos that they love to hate.  How ‘bout that commenter on youtube who said that he couldn’t wait until “islamic fascists” used a WMD to destroy the whole city, so there’d be 3-5 million fewer leftists in the country?

Here’s a message to all the “patriotic americans” out there: we’re the ones who paid the price for just being American on 9/11.  We’re the ones who lost 2,603 of our people, and gained a gaping wound in our sky that still hasn’t healed.  Our people are the ones who are still suffering health problems because they breathed the fucking Towers into their lungs.  Every day I go to work, there’s the chance that this could be the day that someone blows himself up in my train car.  Because this city is America’s face.  We’re what the world sees, and what our enemies want to punch. 

But we’re the ones who didn’t get scared.  Why should we?  Sure, today is the day I could get blown up, but it’s also the day that someone could knife me for my wallet.  While huge chunks of this country went apeshit with fear and gave a crazy fool as much power as he wanted so he could be the strongman to protect them from the scary brown people, we remembered what America is supposed to mean.  When that crazy fool locked up American citizens without trial; when he wanted to tap phones without even the after-the-fact, rubber-stamp warrants that the FISA court gives out; when he went to war for no reason and committed torture, we protested.  We marched and voted against him, even - especially - when the RNC came here to, once again, use 9/11 for their political advantage (is that part of why you hate us, KLH?  Because we wouldn’t be good little mascots?  Are you even going to answer, or are you just going to “seagull” this thread, like you have every other - stop in, shit on everything, then fly off?).  Because we remembered that real Americans don’t trade their rights away so the big man will protect them. 

So fuck you and any “patriotic americans” who dare to call us “stalinists” because we’re your favorite symbol of the Big City and all the leftist degenerates therein.  We’re the ones who took the hit and kept going.  We fought to hold onto our rights when everyone was so scared that they were begging Bush to take theirs.  And just incidentally, we’re the God damn melting pot.  We’re what America is supposed to be, and don’t you forget it.

So you got heckled on your street protest?  Cry me a river on your way back to East Bumblefuck, and come back to New York when you’ve grown a spine.

Comment #24: Seraph  on  10/13  at  02:03 AM

Um. KLH, not only eviscerated, but rendered into subtatomic and hadronic components….

Comment #25: gwangung  on  10/13  at  02:56 AM

Bravo, Seraph. Bravo.

Comment #26: Dweeze  on  10/13  at  03:22 AM

Thank you, Seraph. “Noun, verb, 9/11” doesn’t seem to work on people who were actually there at the time!

Comment #27: Nenya  on  10/13  at  03:28 AM

“I can’t wait for this election to be over.  I’m losing my ability to cope with the bullshit… “

ME TOO!!!!!!

Comment #28: Marymeister  on  10/13  at  06:16 AM

See this is kinda interesting. KLH shows something I’ve noticed for a while. Many right-wingers don’t ever really see left-wingers anymore. They see shadows in their minds, which they then fight against. This is probably because they’ve had such an advantage in propaganda for such a long time, they’ve successfully defined us as being evil crazy leftist marxist atheist mooslem loving gay mexican subversives. Which often works with the general public. But it also means that they personally don’t see us.

Which means that when they troll us, they don’t even know what to say that will hurt us. They don’t know what we care about. So they yell crazy-ass shit at us and we stare at their comments with a blank expression, wondering what that is supposed to mean exactly.

Comment #29: atheist  on  10/13  at  08:23 AM

Seraph, I would say “ditto”, but that word has been ruined.  But what you said should be posted on the wall in every house in America.

“So they yell crazy-ass shit at us and we stare at their comments with a blank expression, wondering what that is supposed to mean exactly.”

...and somehow that means we lost and they won! 

I don’t know why they come around here.  Nobody is going to read their droolings and decide to reject our entire worldview in favor of becoming a Randroid/Conservobot like them. 

So all that happens is a lame attempt to tip the chessboard over.  Which is great fun.  If you’re an 8-year old future psychopath…

Comment #30: MikeEss  on  10/13  at  09:47 AM

>>Jesse, please warn us about freep links.<<

Just flush the cache on your browser end delete the internet temp files…you’ll feel better tomorrow.

Comment #31: dijetlo  on  10/13  at  01:52 PM

Another protester shouted at someone entering the hotel, “Wait till your daughter wants an abortion, you hypocrite.”

Yeah, you’d think that Palin had a pregnant teenage daughter or something.

Comment #32: Mnemosyne  on  10/13  at  02:00 PM

Seraph, you’re my new hero.  “Seagulling”... perfect.

Comment #33: NobleExperiments  on  10/13  at  02:34 PM

“While huge chunks of this country went apeshit with fear”


And did cowardly stuff like join the Marine Corps in order to fight the throatcutters hand-a-hand. 

I’ll bet my left one that you’re not from New York, but you moved there to complete your hipster lifestyle fantasy.

Comment #34: Horace Rumpole  on  10/13  at  02:49 PM

And did cowardly stuff like join the Marine Corps in order to fight the throatcutters hand-a-hand.

And promptly got sent to Iraq, which had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11.

By the way, Rumpy, where’s bin Laden?  Didn’t your president promise to bring him back “dead or alive”?

Comment #35: Mnemosyne  on  10/13  at  03:17 PM

“And promptly got sent to Iraq, which had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11.”

To ruin the happy kite-flying bastion of peace, of course.


“By the way, Rumpy, where’s bin Laden?  Didn’t your president promise to bring him back “dead or alive”?”

Waiting for the great Brock Obama overland invasion of Pakistan, I suppose.  What’ll be especially fun is to watch the Islamist coup in Pakistan, and the nuke exchange between Pakistan and India immediately thereafter.

Comment #36: Horace Rumpole  on  10/13  at  03:27 PM

To ruin the happy kite-flying bastion of peace, of course.

As usual, Rumpy has no reply and falls back on, “But Michael Moore is fat!”

Waiting for the great Brock Obama overland invasion of Pakistan, I suppose.  What’ll be especially fun is to watch the Islamist coup in Pakistan, and the nuke exchange between Pakistan and India immediately thereafter.

In other words, your side lost the guy, so now you’re going to try and pretend he was never really all that important after all, right?  It was far more important to invade Iraq and get their balsawood Drones of Death and aluminum tubes than it was to find the guy who’s planned global terror attacks for the past decade.

Nice to know that, as usual, Republicans couldn’t care less about global security as long as they have a boogeyman under the bed that they can be scared of instead.

Comment #37: Mnemosyne  on  10/13  at  03:35 PM

Yum, more tasty pie-like words placed lovingly in my mouth by Mnemosyne.


“Lost the guy?”  Why, if you knew precisely where he was, didn’t you tell anyone?  Or is he the Arab George Washington of MikeEss’ dreams?

Listen, there are no “sides” of the United States fighting wars.  This is a lesson you need to understand.

Killing Bin Laden is important, but what is more important is and was preventing the next disaster.

Comment #38: Horace Rumpole  on  10/13  at  03:44 PM

And did cowardly stuff like join the Marine Corps in order to fight the throatcutters hand-a-hand.

More New Yorkers have come home from Bush’s War in a box than any other city in the US:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-02-18-uscities-fatalities_N.htm

So.  That right-wing wank-fantasy you’ve clung to your whole life, about how we’re a bunch of effete, cowardly ivory tower weaklings who wouldn’t survive ten minutes without the protection of Real American Patriots who live out in Real America?  Scoreboard, motherfucker. 

And we did it without saying “Thank you sir, may I have another?” to the crazy fool who was stripping away rights and stacking up nifty authoritarian powers just as fast as he could.  Which reminds me: how do you like the idea of President Obama having the right to declare people “enemy combatants” come January?

I’ll bet my left one that you’re not from New York, but you moved there to complete your hipster lifestyle fantasy.

You’re half right.  I grew up Upstate, in the small town of Camden (it’s in the Syracuse area).  After college (and a few years in Boston), I moved here because my wife (who is a native) had family and a good job here, and I’m now a paralegal on Wall Street (given the way things are going, of course, it’s anyone’s guess as to how much longer).  We have an apartment in Astoria, on the first floor of a house.  The owners - an elderly Italian couple - live on the top two floors, and their sons stop by regularly to make repairs and just visit.  Someone else lives in the basement.  Sound hipster to you?

And none of that matters, because here’s the thing about New York: you don’t have to live here your whole life to be a New Yorker.  It can be a rough place, but anything you can carve out for yourself is yours.  No one gets to say who is and isn’t a “Real New Yorker” - people who’ve never been here before come home here every day.  The NYU students who stay in the Village after graduation are just as much New Yorkers as the hipsters who’ve lived there since the fifties - who are no more or less New Yorkers than the Wall Street lawyers or the bus drivers or the Broadway actors.

This is Our City - My City - and you don’t get to set criteria that say otherwise.

Comment #39: Seraph  on  10/13  at  03:56 PM

Seraph, you’re my new hero.  “Seagulling”… perfect.

Wish I could take credit for it…or remember where I got it from…

Comment #40: Seraph  on  10/13  at  03:59 PM

“So.  That right-wing wank-fantasy you’ve clung to your whole life, about how we’re a bunch of effete, cowardly ivory tower weaklings who wouldn’t survive ten minutes without the protection of Real American Patriots who live out in Real America?  Scoreboard, motherfucker.”

Yeah, they’re from the Upper East Side?  Puh-lease, fuckwit, they’re tough kids from Staten Island and Howard Beach like my classmates at PLC.  And I’m from Philadelphia, shitnuts.  Anyone with experience will tell you that combat units are predominated by white kids from the South.  What is this “we did . . .”  You did nothing but tear a rotator cuff patting yourself on the back for being so brave.


“No one gets to say who is and isn’t a “Real New Yorker””

That’s not what my people say - You know, people who grew up in New York.  You’re a hipster interloper who can’t tell the difference between urban and urbane.  Nothing more.

Comment #41: Horace Rumpole  on  10/13  at  04:09 PM

To ruin the happy kite-flying bastion of peace, of course.

No, to waste time, money and lives on attacking a defanged enemy who couldn’t hurt us if he tried while leaving the job in Afghanistan half-finished and the leader of our true enemy free to A) Plan further attacks and B) Serve as a symbol of invincibility in the face of American power.

Listen, there are no “sides” of the United States fighting wars.  This is a lesson you need to understand.

That’s the way it should be, isn’t it?  But after seven years of Dubya accusing anyone who questions his tactics or leadership of “siding with the terrorists”; after the Republican Party’s attempt to create a permanent Republican majority by accusing Democrats of weakness in the “War on Terror”, I don’t really buy it.  If there weren’t “sides” before, then the Bush regime created them. 

Sorry if we don’t fall in line because you say we should. 

Killing Bin Laden is important, but what is more important is and was preventing the next disaster.

By…I don’t know…taking out the guy who was actually responsible for the last disaster, rather than focusing our attention on some guy who had nothing to do with it?  Can’t help but think that it sends a bad message that the man responsible for the deaths of close onto 3,000 Americans is still running around free.

Just a thought.

Comment #42: Seraph  on  10/13  at  04:20 PM

Yes, I see your boilerplate, there.  You forgot BUSHLIEDPEOPLEDIED.

Comment #43: Horace Rumpole  on  10/13  at  04:23 PM

Yeah, they’re from the Upper East Side?  Puh-lease, fuckwit, they’re tough kids from Staten Island and Howard Beach like my classmates at PLC.  And I’m from Philadelphia, shitnuts.  Anyone with experience will tell you that combat units are predominated by white kids from the South.

Ah.  So some New Yorkers get to be honorary Real Americans?  Interesting.  Is that just by virtue of living in certain tough neighborhoods (does the Barrio count?), or do they have to earn their citizenship, Starship Troopers-style, by serving in the military?

That’s not what my people say - You know, people who grew up in New York.

Interesting.  And I know people who grew up in New York who say the exact opposite.  I guess that’s a wash, with the tie going to the New Yorker telling the Philadelphian that he and his alleged New York friends don’t get to dictate terms.

You’re a hipster

Okay, I’m guessing your definition of “hipster” is very, very broad. 

Yes, I see your boilerplate, there.  You forgot BUSHLIEDPEOPLEDIED

And yet I see no actual rebuttal to anything I said.  Surely you’ll agree that going after someone who actually caused us damage is better strategy than going after someone who merely wishes he could?

Comment #44: Seraph  on  10/13  at  04:39 PM

Horace apparently can’t even claim that he put his life on the line for this country.  Once a chickenhawk, always a chickenhawk.

Comment #45: keshmeshi  on  10/13  at  04:45 PM

“Horace apparently can’t even claim that he put his life on the line for this country.  Once a chickenhawk, always a chickenhawk.”

Google PLC, fuckwit.

Comment #46: Horace Rumpole  on  10/13  at  04:46 PM

“And yet I see no actual rebuttal to anything I said.”


No, I’m just not interested in relitigating the war(s) with you.  I’ve done that enough times that the fun has worn to nothing.  Nothing will change your mind, because BUSHLIEDPEOPLELIED MCCHIMPYHALLIBURTON.

Comment #47: Horace Rumpole  on  10/13  at  04:52 PM

Google PLC, fuckwit.

Programmable Logic Controller?  Presbyterian Ladies’ College?

No, I’m just not interested in relitigating the war(s) with you.  I’ve done that enough times that the fun has worn to nothing.  Nothing will change your mind, because BUSHLIEDPEOPLELIED MCCHIMPYHALLIBURTON.

It’s not just me you’re talking to, Rumpy.  This is a public forum, remember?  Come on, this is your chance to educate the lurkers.  Tell ‘em how taking our attention away from the search for the man responsible for 9/11 and spending five years, 4000+ American lives, and trillions of dollars was all worth it to create a new ally for Iran.

Comment #48: Seraph  on  10/13  at  05:10 PM

Nice to see Horace dropping the fake “I’m far more erudite than you, old bean” tactics.

Comment #49: mythago  on  10/13  at  05:14 PM

“Tell ‘em how taking our attention away from the search for the man responsible for 9/11”


Well, I see your first mistake.  There is no one “man” responsible for 9/11, such that if we kill him the problem subsides.  I do like your pretend ferocity - and that of Brock - towards Usama Bin Laden.  It almost makes me forget the existential search for understanding in the wake of the terrorist attacks.

Comment #50: Horace Rumpole  on  10/13  at  05:21 PM

Google PLC, fuckwit.

Programmable Logic Controller?  Presbyterian Ladies’ College?

Actually, I’m just busting your chops, Rumpy.  I looked up the PLC you’re talking about. 

Of course, that puts even more pressure on you now.  Surely a marine officer can give a really good strategic reason that:

taking our attention away from the search for the man responsible for 9/11 and spending five years, 4000+ American lives, and trillions of dollars was all worth it to create a new ally for Iran.

I mean,

Surely you’ll agree that going after someone who actually caused us damage is better strategy than going after someone who merely (wished) he could?

After all,

Can’t help but think that it sends a bad message that the man responsible for the deaths of close onto 3,000 Americans is still running around free.

By the way, you never did answer my question:

So some New Yorkers get to be honorary Real Americans?  Interesting.  Is that just by virtue of living in certain tough neighborhoods (does the Barrio count?), or do they have to earn their citizenship, Starship Troopers-style, by serving in the military?

Comment #51: Seraph  on  10/13  at  05:22 PM

There is no one “man” responsible for 9/11, such that if we kill him the problem subsides.

So Osama bin Laden isn’t important enough to go after with our full force and attention, but Saddam Hussein is?  Right.  That clears that right up.

I do like your pretend ferocity - and that of Brock - towards Usama Bin Laden.

Pretend?  Fucker, he masterminded the bombing of my city and he hasn’t been brought to justice because Bush decided he wanted to play in another sandbox.  He should’ve been impeached for that alone. 

It almost makes me forget the existential search for understanding in the wake of the terrorist attacks.

You know, there are actually people who can hold more than one thought or emotion in their heads at the same time.  It’s true.  They can search for understanding when confronted with a horrific disaster and the depth of human evil, while at the same time being angry that they were the victims of that evil.  Some can - I know this is hard to believe - agree that one war is necessary, while arguing that another is not.

Comment #52: Seraph  on  10/13  at  05:37 PM

Look, here’s the deal.  If someone shoots you, and gets away - well, sure you’d like to visit justice upon them.  In the days (I mean days) following 9/11, what was first and foremost as a matter of import was preventing the next attack.  Now, if you were in NYC on 9/11, you should have understood that the terrorists overplayed their hand.  By all rights, they should have used some other means to not only destroy property and kill the direct victims of the terrorist attack as it were, but tens if not hundreds of thousands more with non-conventional weapons.  In a sense, 9/11 was a gift in that a more spectacular attack was not completed - you must understand that as much as some consider 9/11 a “failure of imagination,” the use of that same evil imagination required a serious consideration of the asymetrical use of biologicals and chemicals.  Was it not forseeable - with the use of that imagination - that a biological attack was possible, and that their source could be the usual suspect?

I will not litigate the pre-War intelligence, but for the fact that you must recall that our CIA: a) grossly underestimated Iraq’s nuclear capabilities before the first Gulf War, and b) was taken utterly and entirely by suprise when Pakistan tested nuclear devices in 1998.  Add to this the inexplicable refusal of meaningful inspections by the Hussein regime.  In such a situation, it would not be unreasonable to doubt the reliability of the CIA’s analyses, especially when they run counter to those of other (more) competent agencies, which have the benefit of more human assets.

Comment #53: Horace Rumpole  on  10/13  at  05:45 PM

Nice to see Horace dropping the fake “I’m far more erudite than you, old bean” tactics.

I think it was when I pointed out that selling your American birthright down the river for a crazy fool’s promises that he’ll keep you safe was a cowardly act.  Nothing pisses off the 101st Fighting Keyboardists like implying that they aren’t the red-blooded, iron-spined, big-balled American Heroes they consider themselves to be.  Comparing them unfavorably to the effete snobs of New York?  I might as well have slapped their grandma. 

Here’s the question, though: do you believe the new Manly Marine(tm) Horace Rumpole any more than you believe the Erudite Horace Rumpole?

Comment #54: Seraph  on  10/13  at  05:54 PM

Look, here’s the deal.  If someone shoots you, and gets away - well, sure you’d like to visit justice upon them.

Nice to see a lawyer advocating letting murderers escape without punishment.  Hey, bin Laden only killed 2,000 people—why bother to prosecute?  He’ll just kill more people anyway, so it would be a wasted effort.

Was it not forseeable - with the use of that imagination - that a biological attack was possible, and that their source could be the usual suspect?

Except that, you know, it wasn’t.  There were no biological weapons except a few left over from Gulf War I.  Saddam Hussein admitted that he was just talking big when he claimed to have anything, and all of the exiles feeding information to Cheney’s group turned out to be liars—which was, of course, a shock to the Bush administration given that the most prominent one, Ahmad Chalabi, was a convicted con man.

Given that the attack was actually “foreseen” on a nationally broadcast fiction TV show a month or so before it happened, I really don’t buy that “no one could have foreseen” an attack on the World Trade Center using an airliner.  The fact that the idiots George Bush hired didn’t think it could happen doesn’t mean “no one” foresaw it.  It means that idiots couldn’t foresee it.

Comment #55: Mnemosyne  on  10/13  at  06:00 PM

If someone shoots you, and gets away - well, sure you’d like to visit justice upon them.

Sure I would.  But more importantly, if he’s vowed to kill me, I want him caught so he can’t shoot me again. 

Was it not forseeable - with the use of that imagination - that a biological attack was possible, and that their source could be the usual suspect?

Only if that imagination was fixated on the usual suspect as the usual suspect, and assumed that all A-rabs is workin’ together, rather than remembering that Al-Qaeda hated Saddam’s secular government.

I will not litigate the pre-War intelligence, but for the fact that you must recall that our CIA: a) grossly underestimated Iraq’s nuclear capabilities before the first Gulf War, and b) was taken utterly and entirely by suprise when Pakistan tested nuclear devices in 1998.  Add to this the inexplicable refusal of meaningful inspections by the Hussein regime.  In such a situation, it would not be unreasonable to doubt the reliability of the CIA’s analyses, especially when they run counter to those of other (more) competent agencies, which have the benefit of more human assets.

Which is why we - with the U.S. essentially holding a gun to Saddam’s head - forced them to submit to weeks of inspections by the U.N., even to the point of searching Saddam’s palaces.  And when we found nothing, we said: “Right, then.  Keep your nose clean.  We’re watching you.”  And went back to the business of hunting down the guy who had successfully attacked us, before he came up with a better idea.

Wait.  That’s not what we did?  We focused all our attention on busting “the usual suspect”, pretty much for no other reason that he was the usual suspect?  Huh.

Comment #56: Seraph  on  10/13  at  06:17 PM

Seraph, you’re nothing but a tiring poseur with faux NYC chops. 


“Nice to see a lawyer advocating letting murderers escape without punishment.”

I did no such thing.  I advocated first arresting future murders.  Its not like Bin Laden pursued terrorism for wholesome reasons, like to protest a War.


“Except that, you know, it wasn’t.”

Which is why John Kerry and John Edwards and Joe Biden tripped over one another to get on record and behind the policy. 


Finally, I don’t need to prove my bona fides to anyone.  Besmirch me if you need to in order to feel superior.

Comment #57: Horace Rumpole  on  10/13  at  06:20 PM

Thou besmircheth thyself far better than any others might…

Comment #58: MikeEss  on  10/13  at  06:34 PM

Seraph, you’re nothing but a tiring poseur with faux NYC chops.
...
Finally, I don’t need to prove my bona fides to anyone.  Besmirch me if you need to in order to feel superior.

I’m going to have to get an industrial-strength irony meter, because my standard ones keep exploding every time I read Mr. Rumpole’s posts.

Here’s the question, though: do you believe the new Manly Marine(tm) Horace Rumpole any more than you believe the Erudite Horace Rumpole?

The Conservative Troll action figure (now with real question-avoiding action!) comes with MANY outfits to serve your trolling needs—the Lawyerly Outfit of Erudition and the Military Fatigues of Self-Righteousness are just two of our most popular products!

Comment #59: Felka  on  10/13  at  06:36 PM

Seraph, you’re nothing but a tiring poseur with faux NYC chops.

Which, even if true, does nothing to rebut my arguments.  A lawyer, of all people, should know what an ad hominem argument is.

Comment #60: Seraph  on  10/13  at  06:36 PM

I advocated first arresting future murders.

Are we in Minority Report now?

Which is why John Kerry and John Edwards and Joe Biden tripped over one another to get on record and behind the policy.

And which is why Barack Obama, who did not, is now well on his way to becoming President.

Comment #61: Seraph  on  10/13  at  06:48 PM

I will not litigate the pre-War intelligence, but for the fact that you must recall that our CIA: a) grossly underestimated Iraq’s nuclear capabilities before the first Gulf War, and b) was taken utterly and entirely by suprise when Pakistan tested nuclear devices in 1998.  Add to this the inexplicable refusal of meaningful inspections by the Hussein regime.  In such a situation, it would not be unreasonable to doubt the reliability of the CIA’s analyses, especially when they run counter to those of other (more) competent agencies, which have the benefit of more human assets.

I get why that seems important, but I think the logic used suffers from a.. problem?  War is the way you achieve final verification on inspections or intelligence.  But I think inspections and spies are a means to avoid war, mostly.

It seemed unlikely at the time, even, that if you simply continued to press on with the operations in Afghanistan, bin Laden and his associates would’ve been free to consort with any nation in order to gain tactical support, weapons, etc…  Since the threat of annihilation for any complicit regimes was so real after Afghanistan.  It would be especially odd to seek help from one that it didn’t have especially close ties to in the first place.  Even if one were to support the argument that you had to go in and attack countries that were supporters of al Qaeda, Iraq seems an odd choice however you examine it.

Comment #62: Eric  on  10/13  at  07:08 PM

I did no such thing.  I advocated first arresting future murders.

We’re supposed to arrest future murderers before we arrest current ones?

Finally, I don’t need to prove my bona fides to anyone.  Besmirch me if you need to in order to feel superior.

Poor Rumpy.  Why do the mean ol’ liberals keep insisting that you use silly things like logic and evidence and facts when you make your arguments?

Comment #63: Mnemosyne  on  10/13  at  07:46 PM

Killing Bin Laden is important, but what is more important is and was preventing the next disaster.

Reason why they went after Saudi Arabia first, of course. Oh wait, they didn’t, and whatever they did didn’t prevent this. Or this. And if you even care about a bunch of filthy brown people, I’m sure the people of Iraq are really grateful for the terrorist attacks that claimed between 100 and 1500 victims every year since 2003. I’m sure some disaster is being prevented, somewhere. Somehow.

Comment #64: KJK::Hyperion  on  10/13  at  08:47 PM

“Because this city is America’s face.  We’re what the world sees, and what our enemies want to punch. “

I thought your enemy was Bush?  Are you saying your enemy is Islamic Jihadists? 

Good for you Seraph!

Comment #65: KLH  on  10/13  at  10:26 PM

Duuuude!  Who do I have to have sex with to “disappear and reappear in the Caribbean”?  Wait, she didn’t sleep with him?  Even better!  Can I not sleep with Obama and disappear and reappear in the Caribbean?  it’s gotta be better than what I’m doing now.

Comment #66: Mrs. W's class  on  10/14  at  12:28 AM

I thought your enemy was Bush?  Are you saying your enemy is Islamic Jihadists?

New York has always been the face that our enemies wanted to punch, regardless of who those enemies were.  Confederate agents plotted to burn the city down during the civil war, the USSR was always talking about how they could nuke “major cities such as New York and Washington”, and Al-Qaeda actually succeeded in their plans.  It’s just a fact of life here: if the hammer falls, we’re beneath it.  Big deal.  Like I said before, today could just as easily be the day someone knifes me for my wallet, and then I don’t have to worry about nukes, do I? 

As for Bush, he’s caused more damage to this country than the “Islamic Jihadists” ever dared to dream.  All they can do is kill us, and he’s even beaten them at that.  But he also squandered our treasure, defaced the Constitution, and destroyed our honor - we’re torturers now, for fuck’s sake.  Of course he’s my enemy.  Despite what you might think - despite what he’s been saying for the last seven years - it’s entirely possible to be opposed to both of them at the same time. 

BTW, before you even try - the real battle against Islamic Jihadists, the one that could have meant something, was in Afghanistan.  Iraq was nothing but a bloody distraction - one that allowed our original enemy to grow strong again.  Another reason Bush should really, really hope that his God isn’t real…

Comment #67: Seraph  on  10/14  at  12:31 AM

What’ll be especially fun is to watch the Islamist coup in Pakistan, and the nuke exchange between Pakistan and India immediately thereafter.

Horace Rumpole on 10/13 at 02:27 PM

Bloodthirsty Republican’t Putsch fellator, aren’t you?  I honestly don’t know what to think of someone who is actively looking forward to finding some enjoyment in the death of millions of their fellow human beings.  Good job on the Republican’t bona fides, though…

Comment #68: (: Tom :)  on  10/14  at  08:27 AM

Tom, all Rumphole sees in the possibility of Pakistan and India nuking each other is a world with many fewer brown people he’d otherwise have to eliminate later.

It’s easy when he doesn’t see them as actual human beings…

Comment #69: MikeEss  on  10/14  at  09:46 AM

“I honestly don’t know what to think of someone who is actively looking forward to finding some enjoyment in the death of millions of their fellow human beings.”

Which is why Brock announcing his great raid on Pakistan is a bad idea.  Try harder.  Fail better.

Comment #70: Horace Rumpole  on  10/14  at  11:13 AM

Try harder.  Fail better.

Sorry, Horace.  We can’t all fail as well as you do.

Comment #71: Seraph  on  10/14  at  01:45 PM
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