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Next entry: Wingnuts find a new low Previous entry: Prop 8: The Musical

Bathed in the poo of Christian love

Once in awhile I’m mildly grateful for Bill Donohue’s tone-deaf faux outrages over random shit he seems to select by throwing darts at a wall.  The latest outrage demonstrates conclusively that Donohue is not a smart man, and probably uses faux outrage to deflect attention from his IQ deficiencies.  There’s no way to coyly lead up to the punchline on this, so I’ll just say it straight—-Donohue is outraged at a Catalonian tradition that dates back hundreds of years because it offends his love of obsequious ass-kissing of authority.  The tradition is far cooler than any American Christmas traditions.  They take little statues (usually of peasants) of people squatting and taking a shit and put them in nativity scenes.  I fail to see how you get more awesome than that.  It’s great, so naturally Bill Donohue is against it, and is raising a fuss because a California museum is displaying an artist’s take on it involving political and sports figures.

Spanish artist Antoni Miralda’s exposition “Poetical Gut” at Copia, a food, wine and arts museum in Napa, Calif., features ceramic figurines of the pope, nuns and angels with their pants down, squatting over their bowel movements.

The Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, a 350,000-member group based in New York, has written to the museum’s board of trustees to say it finds the show offensive.

“When it’s degrading, everybody knows it except the spin doctors who run the museums,” the group’s president, William Donohue, said Sunday.


It must be weird to have a brain that does no thinking but yet can churn out faux outrage at breakneck speed.  Neurologists should study Donohue. 

While to American eyes, the automatic reading of this tradition is about taking the piss out of religious authority, the tradition is not actually about that at all, according the museum director.

In a tradition that dates back to the 18th century, Catalonians hide caganers in Christmas Nativity scenes and invite friends over to try to find them. The figures symbolize fertilization and the hope for prosperity in the coming year, according to Joan.

“It’s really only a game,” he said. “The caganer is not supposed to steal Je-sus’ spotlight in the manger scene. But it’s logical that when traditions like this are exported they can be misunderstood.”

I will continue to secretly believe that this is merely an excuse to cover up sheer awesomeness.  Kidding!  I believe the guy.  But it’s nonetheless interesting that the art show has statues that are famous figures.  There’s more than a whiff of insolence to the whole thing.  But honestly, I’d think it’s an honor to have a shitting statue of you made.  Maybe next year they’ll make one of Bill Donohue.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 10:17 PM • (124) Comments

I’ve never been of the collector mindset, but i would seriously love shelves of those things.

Comment #1: pablo  on  12/03  at  10:26 PM

And when i was a young catholic boy, one of the things that drove me to atheism was the thought of Jesus taking a steaming dump. It just seemed so undignified of a god.

Comment #2: pablo  on  12/03  at  10:27 PM

We have a tradition of naked baby jesus, lying on his belly.  All saintly round baby buttocks pointing to the heavens. 
Man, they always complain about these things.  Last year it was because of the Beckham nativity scene, now this.  I always thought the nativity scenes were supposed to be fun, and express the views of whoever made them, no?

Comment #3: raspberryjamba  on  12/03  at  10:31 PM

I knew you would love this story, Amanda. And I would have shelves full of these things if I could as well.

Comment #4: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  12/03  at  10:33 PM

The Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, a largely inactive and out-of-date 350,000-member <strike>group</strike> mailing list based in New York, has written to the museum’s board of trustees to say it finds the show offensive.

“When it’s degrading, everybody knows it except the spin doctors who run the museums,” the <strike>group’s president</strike> mailing list’s purchaser and ever-ready right-wing bed-wetting media whore, William Donohue, said Sunday.

I keep correcting them, but the MSM bookers seem to prefer the convenience of a phoney-baloney “representative of American Catholics” trolling up and down 6th Ave, mobile phone at the ready.

Maybe next year they’ll make one of Bill Donohue.

It is a cool tradition, but this year they did sculpt Donohue. In fact, it’s in the photo at the top of the post: see where it says “Yes We Can” on the base of the statue on the left? Look a little to the right…

Comment #5: Gracchus  on  12/03  at  10:41 PM

one of the things that drove me to atheism was the thought of Jesus taking a steaming dump. It just seemed so undignified of a god.

That is an interesting thought, I must admit.

Personally, I’ve never understood why people believe that a god would have to be dignified, wise, compassionate, or good. His creation sure as hell isn’t any of those things.

Comment #6: atheist  on  12/03  at  10:45 PM

Who was that artist who made things out of elephant dung? And Mayor Giuliani proclaimed that the dung-based madonna figures were blasphemy rather than a tradition from, I dunno, Africa or somewhere? Someone needs to use elephant dung to sculpt a pooping Donohue. What’s better than meta poop art?

Comment #7: Orange  on  12/03  at  10:51 PM

He didn’t sculpt anything out of elephant dung - he used it as a sculptural element, or prop, for and in his paintings. Think on what Brancusi did for the sculptural pedestal. Chris Ofili (sorry, I had to look it up). Look him up, he’s an excellent painter who’ll unfairly have a narrative alien to his work stuck to it forever.

Comment #8: dooflow  on  12/03  at  10:57 PM

There’s more than a whiff of insolence to the whole thing.

Excellent choice of words, Amanda.

Comment #9: Rebecca C.  on  12/03  at  11:01 PM

In a tradition that dates back to the 18th century, Catalonians hide caganers in Christmas Nativity scenes and invite friends over to try to find them.

sorta like the afikomen, only with poop

Comment #10: ol cranky  on  12/03  at  11:08 PM

Have been looking around your site, like the layout, love the content.

Would you like to trade links with a bipartisan politics blog offering a uniquely youth perspective.

ThePurpleYouth
http://www.thepurpleyouth.com

Or just let me know at Quash100 [at] gmail.com

Comment #11: gabe  on  12/03  at  11:23 PM

That whiff you’re getting isn’t just insolence…

Seriously, that’s a pretty hilarious Christmas tradition, as they go.

Comment #12: grolby  on  12/03  at  11:31 PM

I won’t be following that link, and choose to believe, apropos in part of the tone of the comment itself and in part of the joy it will bring me to believe said thing, that the Purple Youth is a community for young people in thrall to Zebediah Killgrave.

Comment #13: Auguste  on  12/03  at  11:32 PM

Amanda,

Do you suffer from mental illness?

Comment #14: Kevin  on  12/03  at  11:41 PM

And when i was a young catholic boy, one of the things that drove me to atheism was the thought of Jesus taking a steaming dump. It just seemed so undignified of a god.

Huh.  That’s a new one.  Most people I know find humanizing touches endearing.  Personally, my favorite part of Dogma is Chris Rock’s character talking about how much Jesus loved to listen to people talk, and how he always had a big smile on his face whenever the apostles were talking about stupid shit.  On a larger scale, I understand there’s a Mexican Christmas carol about Mary washing Jesus’s diapers.  YMMV, I suppose. 

But you bring up an interesting point.  While they’re usually more interested in him bleeding than shitting, the Catholic church has never been equivocal about the fact that Jesus was “a man like us in all things but sin” - probably adds a little impact to the “tortured to death” part of the story.  So why in hell does Donohue get so upset about a statue of Jesus with the man-parts that he obviously had, still less about statues of popes and nuns (who were human, full stop) dumpin’ some fuel?  I’ll admit the angels are a bit weird…what do angels even eat?

Comment #15: Seraph  on  12/03  at  11:43 PM

That shit’s disgusting.

Comment #16: Aaron  on  12/03  at  11:44 PM

We have a tradition of naked baby jesus, lying on his belly.  All saintly round baby buttocks pointing to the heavens.

That’s one of the cuter things I’ve ever heard of. 

Humanizing touches.  I love ‘em.

Comment #17: Seraph  on  12/03  at  11:44 PM

Leave it up to the liberal sickos to endorse this.

God-Almighty what has this country become. Come soon Jesus.

Comment #18: Kevin  on  12/04  at  12:02 AM

kevin, did you use to work in the medical profession when there was a Soviet Union?

Amanda, here’s a letter from Donohue’s last flare-up 6 years ago:

Editor—William Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, sure knows how to dig himself into a hole. He targets Spanish artist Antoni Miralda’s defecating porcelain figurines (“Catholic group calls Napa art offensive,” Jan. 9).

To demonstrate that he’s not a fanatical censor, Donohue assures us that he would not have objected if Miralda had substituted “the Lone Ranger and Tonto .

. . or better yet, just Tonto and a few of his Indian buddies” for the pope and a group of nuns as butts of his humor.

From Donohue’s outcry you might assume that Miralda had targeted Catholicism—but Fidel Castro, Sherlock Holmes and various others share the spotlight in Miralda’s contemporary take on traditional Catalan folk art.

Is Donohue suggesting that out of all humanity, Catholic clergy have special dispensation from the “indignity” of their bodily functions?

DAVID KELSO

Oakland

God-Almighty what has this country become. Come soon Jesus.

[michael scott]

That’s what she said!

[/michael scott]

Seriously, Kevin, Catalonian Catholics far more devout and right-wing than either you or Bill Donohue have been endorsing this harmless and rather endearing tradition for centuries, without the help of “liberal sickos.” It’s clear what drives Donohue to attempt to drain the joy from everything including Christmas, but what motivates you? Cilice wrapped a little tight?

Comment #20: Gracchus  on  12/04  at  12:23 AM

Is Kevin a parody troll, like Rugged in Montana?

Comment #21: raspberryjamba  on  12/04  at  12:24 AM

No, I think Kevin really sees this as so utterly devastating to his soul and mind that he can do nothing but sputter.

Honestly, I think this is the worst thing he’s ever heard of.

Comment #22: Auguste  on  12/04  at  12:30 AM

Honestly, I think this is the worst thing he’s ever heard of.

In a way, that’s completely awesome. A christian horrified beyond belief that his preferred god—who, in the preferred mythology, was actually born as a human being—had to take a shit from time to time.

Kevin (and “Doctor” Donohue), Jesus totally shat, usually once a day. Sometimes, he’d do it more often. Sometimes, he’d get diarrhea and take really runny shits. Sometimes, they were hard as a rock and hurt to get out. Sometimes, they’d stink like hell, and the disciples would yell, “Daaaamn, Jesus, what the fuck have you been eating?!”

What the heck did they use as toilet paper in the first century B.C.E. anyway?

Comment #23: Scott  on  12/04  at  12:49 AM

I still think it’s half a step below pink flamingos.

Comment #24: Wareq  on  12/04  at  12:57 AM

Only if Jesus dresses up as a woman, wears really weird eye makeup, and eats a plate full of grunties, Wareq.  smile

Comment #25: Scott  on  12/04  at  01:02 AM

I could always find some of the Virgin Mary porn I use to scare off trolls on my blog.

Comment #26: ginmar  on  12/04  at  01:06 AM

This is so interesting. It is nearly as fun as the Che Guevara barf bags I keep in my plane for air sick passengers. I always enjoy tossing Che’s image, full of puke, into the dumpster!

Comment #27: Roberta Ely  on  12/04  at  01:07 AM

Roberta thinks we’re Che worshipers. It’s cute the way they believe their own fairy tales.

Jesus also had to pee, sometimes really, really bad. He’d get sick and throw up. He nursed at his mother’s breast. He’d sneeze really hard and get snot in his beard. He got boners. He picked his nose. He farted.

Why do you Donohue followers fear this stuff? Was Jesus a human or not? Humans crap, sometimes messily. So Jesus crapped, too, sometimes messily.

Comment #28: Scott  on  12/04  at  01:19 AM

Hello,

A humble request…

Do you, by any chance, happen to know who Secret Dubai (the blogger: secretdubai.blogspot.com) is?

http://whoissecretdubai.blogspot.com/

Comment #29: whoissecretdubai  on  12/04  at  01:21 AM

Who the fuck cares about Che Guevara anymore?

Comment #30: spence-bob  on  12/04  at  01:26 AM

You have me in stitches, Scott.  I never thought I’d laugh so hard at poop jokes.  smile

Considering all the ridiculously evil and terrible things happening in the world, Kevin gets the vapors over the prospect of a farting, shitting Jesus. 

War and genocide?  Meh.

A shitting Jesus?  Blasphemy!

Comment #31: Cat Ion  on  12/04  at  01:29 AM

Roberta thinks we’re Che worshipers. It’s cute the way they believe their own fairy tales.

“We don’t see things the way they are. We see them the way we are.”

Anais Nin

Comment #32: atheist  on  12/04  at  01:32 AM

Oh, I thought Roberta just hated Che for the same reasons I hate Che.  You mean we are supposed to like the guy, or what he has come to simbolize?

Comment #33: raspberryjamba  on  12/04  at  01:35 AM

Who the fuck cares about Che Guevara anymore?

Apparently, the Cuban exile community. They’re in the process of putting together a protest right now because a theater in Miami is going to premiere Soderberg’s new movie about the guy.

Comment #34: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  12/04  at  01:46 AM

I don’t get the Che reference, either. I honestly don’t think I know anyone who gives a fuck about him. I doubt even the Cuban exile community really knows all that much about what he actually did or stood for, in spite of their hero-worship.

From what I can tell, he’s just like any other empty icon humanity has ever erected. They’re all treated exactly the same, from Stalin to Tupac Shakur. He represents whatever the person who wants him to represent something wants him to represent. The reality of Che Guevara is completely irrelevant to the symbol of Che Guevara.

Comment #35: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  12/04  at  01:58 AM

How to tick off Bill Donohue (and any number of other religious nuts): Ask him what God’s penis is for.

Comment #36: Theron  on  12/04  at  02:04 AM

I could be way off base here, but I wonder if this tradition ties in to the Catalunyans’ historic skepticism towards organised religion. It’s worth noting that for that brief period during the Spanish Civil War when the Anarcho-Syndicalists were running the region, pretty much every church got burned down, except for those with inherent architectural value (read Gaudi). As a historically oppressed/dominated nation I don’t wonder that they want to take a symbolic crap on the trappings of the power structure.

Comment #37: smokescreen  on  12/04  at  02:11 AM

Just an FYI for our hosts: purplepoliticalpeopleeaters and whothefuckcaresindubai are spamming the political blogs tonight - they hit Lawyers, Guns & Money earlier this evening.

Comment #38: protected static  on  12/04  at  02:11 AM

Auguste you make me so happy: Zebediah Killgrave. . Not even The Purple Man. But, fucking Zebediah Killgrave. Do you remember his daughter from the terrible Bill Mantlo Alpha Flights?

Comment #39: dooflow  on  12/04  at  02:11 AM

DO I REMEMBER?

Alpha Flight was my obsession back then.

Comment #40: Auguste  on  12/04  at  02:18 AM

When I was last living in Toronto, I was three doors down from a Catholic church, and every year they put up a very prominent nativity. But one year, somebody stole the baby Jeebus! I decided the whole thing looked pretty sad with an empty cradle. So I had some friends over for New Year’s Eve and challenged them to bring things to put in the cradle.

Somebody brought a whole dead fish, somebody brought a talking Chucky doll, somebody brought a large bottle of scotch, but it was my Catholic friends who brought the large, pink box of Trojan condoms.

Took em THREE DAYS to notice that baby Jeebus had been replaced by a scotch-drinking, condom-toting talking Chucky doll.

I grilled up the fish with some lemon and tarragon.

Comment #41: Andrew  on  12/04  at  02:19 AM

Oh, Andrew, that’s awesome.  smile

Comment #42: Scott  on  12/04  at  03:02 AM

So why in hell does Donohue get so upset about a statue of Jesus with the man-parts that he obviously had, still less about statues of popes and nuns (who were human, full stop) dumpin’ some fuel?

There’s a story about Pope John XXIII (swiped it off the internet, take it with a grain of salt).

One time a new building was being built on Vatican grounds, and the architects sent the plans over to the Pope for his final approval. The Holy Father wrote the phrase, “non sumus angeli” atop the plans and sent them back. The only problem was that none of the architects spoke Latin. At once they had it translated, but were still puzzled as to what the Holy Father meant by His seemingly strange comment. Later, they discovered that the Pope had realized something that the architects had not…the plans did not include bathrooms.

Comment #43: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  12/04  at  03:29 AM

What the heck did they use as toilet paper in the first century B.C.E. anyway?

Scott on 12/03 at 10:49 PM

Uhm ... FTR, that would have been 4th century CE (and +30 years) - but might I suggest, since YOU asked - Scot tissue?;-)

Comment #44: phylosopher  on  12/04  at  03:34 AM

Ask him what God’s penis is for.

Or worse, his belly-button. Brings back pleasant memories of reading Towing Jehovah.

And toilet paper was invented by the Chinese, who were probably using it by the first century CE.

The Romans used sponges dipped in water on the end of sticks. Public latrines would have one or two of these for everyone to use. Yuk.  (link)

Comment #45: sunsin  on  12/04  at  03:55 AM

I always find it amusing that these are people who are supposed to believe one of the most radical theologies going - that God, the one and only God, creator of all - lowered himself to become thoroughly, completely and utterly human. It’s a scandalous thought, really.

And then they blow it all by refusing to actual imagine their Christ doing the things that all humans do. If Jesus didn’t poop, pee, fart, get head colds, stub his toes, and all the myriad uncomfortable, indignified human things, then all of Catholic theology goes “Poof!”

And they don’t even seem to realize it.

Comment #46: Tapetum  on  12/04  at  03:57 AM

Donohue can come and suck my ass. The caganer is the awesomest tradition these holidays, and one can’t conceive a manger without its hidden figurine.

I could be way off base here, but I wonder if this tradition ties in to the Catalunyans’ historic skepticism towards organised religion.

Despite the experience during our civil war, actually catalans are very, very religious. I’ve always been told that the tradition of the caganer is explained because we are also very scatological. Actually, we have another weird character, <a >the Tió</a>, a log that is placed near the fire and fed on Christmas Eve so that, at the end of the supper, it poops presents for the kids.

See, we love the shit.

Comment #47: Mireia  on  12/04  at  04:04 AM

Someone needs to get ol’ Bill a copy of Everybody Poops - perhaps he didn’t get the memo, but if Jesus existed he probably did some pooping.

Comment #48: Sara Pulis  on  12/04  at  04:16 AM

“Che Guevara”  ::baffled:: Is Roberta ACTUALLY trying to outrage us with references to…. CHE FUCKING GUEVARA???

What. The. Hell?

Darling, it’s the 21st Century. Look it up, it’s true!

Comment #49: Eric, Rejector of Memez  on  12/04  at  04:20 AM

I always enjoy tossing Che’s image, full of puke, into the dumpster!

really? you actually enjoy that? you enjoy handling a thin layer of paper being all that is separating you from about a pint or so of semi-digested food, mucus and dilute stomach acid, simply because it has a cheap printing of someone you don’t like on it?

Gotta tell you, being an American Jew with family who died in the camps, I’m not a fan of Hitler’s by any stretch of the imagination. but that doesn’t mean I’d enjoy handling a bag of biohazardous material, even for a few seconds, just to throw it away and now it’s in proximity to the waste all by itself.

That’s just weird.

Comment #50: karpad  on  12/04  at  05:42 AM

IIRC, there are many mediaeval paintings of the Madonna and child in which Mary is pointing at Jesus’s penis (to emphasize his humanity).

Comment #51: killjoy  on  12/04  at  06:27 AM

killjoy:

IIRC, there are many mediaeval paintings of the Madonna and child in which Mary is pointing at Jesus’s penis (to emphasize his humanity).

And yet they still expect us to take their religion seriously.

Comment #52: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  12/04  at  06:32 AM

killjoy, I don’t know, that sounds to me a bit like “Look! I made a BOY! Like women in the patriarchy are supposed to!”

However, there are lots of traditions of religious and quasi-religious reminders of human’s earthy side. As an artist, I’m very well aware of the tradition of skulls in painting to remind the viewers we are MORTAL and death is coming. Some of the best Madonna and child paintings have infant/toddler Jesus acting like a real kid—reaching for something off to the side, trying to get his cousin John to come play, or grabbing his own toes—rather than looking saintly. 
I don’t often care for gross-out humor, but I do think that the puncturing of pomposity and posturing of formal religions is good for people’s mental health. People get too wrapped up in trying to project a perfect image, and if squatting figurines remind them that being human is normal, then good for the figurines.

Comment #53: Samantha Vimes  on  12/04  at  06:58 AM

According to Kundera—I think it was The Unbearable Lightness of Being—Medieval theologians denied that Jesus shat.  So this discomfort with His corporeality has been going on for a while . . .

Comment #54: Josh  on  12/04  at  09:34 AM

This is Satan’s den.

Comment #55: Kevin  on  12/04  at  09:35 AM

Personally I find the shitting statues gross, however my spirituality is in no way threatened by someone else’s irreverence.  I also want to re-iterate Tapetum’s comment about how some Catholics seem to find Jesus’s humanity abhorrent, which is completely bizarre to me.  If he was a human man, then he did everything that we do, which includes falling in love, having sex, and probably having children.  To this agnostic, the humanity of Jesus is the most appealing thing about him.

Comment #56: Blitzgal  on  12/04  at  09:51 AM

“This is Satan’s den.”

I think Satan builds a snug house of mud and sticks, that you have to go underwater to enter, Kevin.

Comment #57: witless chum  on  12/04  at  09:51 AM

Theron, God’s penis is for the same thing all penises are for: GPS function combined with OED and InstaSuperiority over his wife, Ashteroth. (at least that’s what the men in my life have used them for)

Poor Kevin, no sense of humor about his religion.

Comment #58: Angelia Sparrow  on  12/04  at  09:52 AM

he church is nothing more than a propaganda machine to further the belief in some idiotic mythology. If jeebus was human I would also assume he got laid once in while also, besides peeing and crapping. The whole bit is nothing more than mythology to try to control the minds of the weak

Comment #59: Ex Patriate  on  12/04  at  10:12 AM

Nothing I’m about to say surprises me about Donohue or his ilk, but…

This reminds me of nothing more than the reports of someone who, having paid for the premium channel, watches the show with the “parental guidance” warning and then reports that, having recorded it and watched it 50 times, they were utterly, utterly disgusted by that part at 25 minutes, 30 seconds in, or that the word fuck was used 214 times, or such.

We need better words for “public” - this wasn’t someone dressed as Jesus taking a dump in the food court at the mall. For that matter, it wasn’t a display of bunnies and bowls of fruit with a Defecating Deity thrown into the middle of it.

I can readily accept someone happening across the entire exhibit and walking off in disgust, with a “that’s not art” feeling. But for this one, we have to posit someone who wandered through the thing, not disgusted, until he happened across the religious figure, and then went ballistic.

Sort of like the Playboy subscriber who is suddenly sick and offended when he finds out it is his sister in the November issue.

Why, oh why, can’t these people learn to just turn off the things that don’t attract them? Someone like Donohue knows damn well that taking this to a national forum just makes it a big deal. Chances are that the exhibit would have been a little blip, but now it is probably sold out for an extended run, and people who never heard of this tradition are going to be clamoring for the figures - and it ain’t going to be the Sherlock Holmes ones that get mass produced.

It’s beyond obvious that Donohue has absolutely no interest in encouraging respect for the icons of his own religion - if he did, he wouldn’t be approaching issue after issue in a way guaranteed to support exactly what he is attacking. What’s obvious is that it is an opportunity for him to grab the limelight and the cash. The country is playing a national version of feed the troll.

Comment #60: Lymis  on  12/04  at  10:22 AM

As a side note, if Donohue was approaching this as a “people pooping isn’t art” rather than an attack on Christianity thing, I’d have more sympathy for the view.

Comment #61: Lymis  on  12/04  at  10:25 AM

Well, the solution, obviously, is to ban nativity scenes. Has anyone suggested that to Bill D?

aimai

Comment #62: aimai  on  12/04  at  10:27 AM

This is a serious question.  I really, really do not know.  Is this the same Bill Donohue with the talk show on TV?

Seriously.

Comment #63: speedbudget  on  12/04  at  10:28 AM

No way!  I saw these figurines in Barcelona when I was there recently - I had no idea they were a big Christmas tradition.  It was September and they were on sale at a crafts market.  Now I regret not buying one.

Somehow I’m not surprised Donohue is dumber than a sack of bricks and/or couldn’t be bothered to do the background research.

Comment #64: micheyd  on  12/04  at  10:29 AM

Kevin: Satan’s den? No that would be Cheney’s office, maybe, or Abu Ghraib prison, or Gitmo, or the hq of Darfur genocidal killers, or some place like that. You know, abodes of actual, serious evil.

A blog of people chuckling at Catalonian poo-poo statuettes & indulging in atheistic jibes isn’t that, you silly boy.

(See, if you were serious, you might think about the Christological challenges implicit in some comments. Pandagonians don’t as a rule take faith seriously - but maybe *you* as a professed Christian should. You can start by being intellectually honest—or at least curious—about what you profess to have faith in.)

And you’ve got to get out more. Either that, or you are a fantastic parody troll.

Comment #65: wapsie  on  12/04  at  10:41 AM

“This is Satan’s den.”

...and yet you won’t go away.  We’re already lost souls as far as you’re concerned, stupid Kevin, so why exactly are you endangering your afterlife by consorting with people like us?...

Comment #66: MikeEss  on  12/04  at  10:47 AM

This is a serious question.  I really, really do not know.  Is this the same Bill Donohue with the talk show on TV?

Bill Donohue does not have a talk show on TV.  Phil Donohue used to have a talk show on TV, but I don’t think he does anymore.  Bill Donohue does show up on a lot of talking head shows spouting off his nonsensical take on how everything under the sun is an attack on Catholics.  I haven’t seen Phil Donohue do much of anything since his show on MSNBC was canceled years ago.

Confusing Bill Donohue with Phil Donohue is at once hilarious and disturbing.  Read the wikipedia articles to see what I mean, but it’s kind of like confusing Billy Graham for Billy Idol - hilarious, but disturbing.

Comment #67: NonyNony  on  12/04  at  10:49 AM

”...but it’s kind of like confusing Billy Graham for Billy Idol ...”

Wait a minute!  You mean Billy Graham didn’t sing White Wedding?...

Comment #68: MikeEss  on  12/04  at  10:52 AM

This is Satan’s den.
Kevin on 12/04 at 07:35 AM

Actually he calls it a “home office” now.  Den is so 1950’s.

Comment #69: mquirk  on  12/04  at  10:57 AM

This is Satan’s den.
Kevin on 12/04 at 07:35 AM

Delusional crazy people are so cute.

Comment #70: MAJeff, God of Biscuits  on  12/04  at  10:59 AM

For those actually interested in the point killjoy made, Leo Steinberg’s “The Sexuality of Christ in Renaissance Art and Modern Oblivion” is the classic text, and a really interesting book.  (Look it up on Amazon to get the gist; hyperlinking doesn’t seem to be working for me.)  I think we can assume it would make Bill Donohue just shit.

Comment #71: forked tongue  on  12/04  at  11:10 AM

This is Satan’s den.

Do you not realize that, if this is true, then you are a mortal who is drawn to Satan like a moth toward flame? Are you sure that that is what you want to believe?

Comment #72: atheist  on  12/04  at  11:11 AM

What would Jesus doo?

Comment #73: Ms Kate  on  12/04  at  11:11 AM

BTW, if Amanda is such a worshiper of Che, or Obama, or any other figure, then why did she pick the figurine that she did for the lede?

I know that self-depricating humor is a bit beyond the ken of the wingnut brain ...

Comment #74: Ms Kate  on  12/04  at  11:13 AM

Catalonians hide caganers in Christmas Nativity scenes and invite friends over to try to find them.

Sounds like a fine Catholic tradition to me - a very much NOT Irish Catholic tradition, but a Catholic tradition nonetheless.

Why does Donahue hate Catholics so much?

Comment #75: Ms Kate  on  12/04  at  11:17 AM

self-depricating humor

Typo, Ms Kate.  It’s self-deprickating humor.  Which explains why wingnuts have such a problem with it, I s’pose.

Comment #76: togolosh  on  12/04  at  11:37 AM

This is Satan’s den.

Sure, and you keep coming back to denounce us for making it impossible for you not to think of the Son of God, his robe pulled up around his waist, squatting next to a desert road, straining mightily and thinking, “Ohh, Dad in Heaven, why can’t I get this divine log out? And why do keep eating those olives Matthew brings along when I know how bad they fuck up my digestion?!”

Maybe you’re enjoying being in Satan’s den a bit too much, Kevin.

Comment #77: Scott  on  12/04  at  11:42 AM

Why does Donahue hate Catholics so much?

Self-loathing? Because there’s money in it? Performance art? I got nothing.

Comment #78: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  12/04  at  11:49 AM

What would Jesus doo?

ROFLMAO

Thanks Ms Kate.  You just made my week.

Comment #79: ummeli  on  12/04  at  11:49 AM

Actually he calls it a “home office” now.  Den is so 1950’s.

Is Satan’s Rec Room out then too?

Comment #80: Ms Kate  on  12/04  at  11:53 AM

Do you suffer from mental illness?

Nope, but a whole lot of people a fuck ton smarter than you do, so you’re banned for hate speech.

Comment #81: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/04  at  11:57 AM

As religious ideation is frequently a symptom of acute mental illness, Amanda is quite sane.

Comment #82: Ms Kate  on  12/04  at  11:58 AM

self-depricating humor

Typo, Ms Kate.  It’s self-deprickating humor.

In this case it’s self-defecating humor.  And in Satan’s rumpus room at that!

Comment #83: FlipYrWhig  on  12/04  at  12:04 PM

Aw, Amanda, but Kevin’s piously impotent rage was amusing as hell.  smile

Comment #84: Scott  on  12/04  at  12:06 PM

It’s beyond obvious that Donohue has absolutely no interest in encouraging respect for the icons of his own religion - if he did, he wouldn’t be approaching issue after issue in a way guaranteed to support exactly what he is attacking. What’s obvious is that it is an opportunity for him to grab the limelight and the cash.

Lymis, you’re thinking like a civilized person, which Donohue simply isn’t.  Sure, the museum and the artist are now going to get a lot more publicity then they ever could have hoped for without his help, but they’re also going to start getting death threats, some of which will be coming from the kind of people who bomb women’s health clinics and shoot doctors. 

Yes, he loves the attention and the money.  But I think he likes bullying and terrorizing people out of business even more.  He loves the knowledge that he can rally a howling mob of Kevins whenever he wants, simply by saying “Can’t you see how those people are picking on you?”  I think that if anyone ever actually got dead because of his incitement, he’d have wank-fodder for the rest of his days (although, of course, he’d be doing the whole “What a tragedy…I never would have wanted violence” routine out in public).

Comment #85: Seraph  on  12/04  at  12:06 PM

This is Satan’s den.

Kevin on 12/04 at 07:35 AM

And yet you seem to be here, in Satan’s den.  Almost as though you feel you deserve to be because of your blasphemous sinful ways. 

You know, it’s not too late to abandon your childish religiously insane fantasies, accept the Light of Reason, and embrace the Truth of Reality.

Praise His Noodly Appendage it’s all in your head, and has absolutely no relationship to reality.

Maybe you can direct me to Satan’s Man Cave?  Prolly lots of good pron there…

And, for good measure, I call for the stick rule to be applied to this religiously insane idiot.

Comment #86: (: Tom :)  on  12/04  at  12:13 PM

Yeah, those darned spin doctors who run all the museums….ROFL!

Comment #87: Caveat  on  12/04  at  12:20 PM

Aw, Amanda, but Kevin’s piously impotent rage was amusing as hell.

It was. But Roberta pathetic “eye for an eye” attempt to outrage us with her Che Guevara barf bags was even funnier. I don’t think that even the Che t-shirt wearing fanboys, let alone the people on this blog, would expend the energy to raise an eyebrow at her vintage 1979 “outrageous protest.”

If you really want to get us upset, Roberta, tell us all about the Bill of Rights toilet paper you keep in “Air Gilead”‘s restroom. I’m guessing you have that, too.

Comment #88: Gracchus  on  12/04  at  01:02 PM

OMG.  I am a total idiot.  I’m very bad at names, too.  Phil =/= Bill.  I always forget names and faces and such.  But really, Phil Donohue was an asshole in his own way, so forgive me for my sin.  I am going to go mail a package with Big Brown and think on this.  Maybe even pray while I’m in there.

Comment #89: speedbudget  on  12/04  at  01:11 PM

OK, I understand the tradition now, but I still find the picture of Blackazoid shitting disturbing.  My fear was it was in some redneck general store next to the Curious George O’Bama dolls.

This thread though?  Full of win.

“This is Satan’s den.”

I think Satan builds a snug house of mud and sticks, that you have to go underwater to enter, Kevin.

Satan’s a beaver?  Who knew?  Is he like the talking beaver in The Chronicles of Narnia?  Cause the previews alone of that talking beastie upset my eldest so much that he utterly refuses to see that movie.  He’ll watch the cartoon version, thankyouverymuch, but that looks REAL, and animals shouldn’t talk.

It’s pretty funny for an 8 y/o who likes to pretend he’s into all things evil like Vader and velociraptors and other vicious predators and venomous insects and arachnids to freak out at a friendly, talking beaver.

Now I know.  It’s SATAN!  Boy’s instincts were good.

Comment #90: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  12/04  at  01:18 PM

Do you suffer from mental illness?

Nope, but a whole lot of people a fuck ton smarter than you do, so you’re banned for hate speech.
Amanda Marcotte on 12/04 at 09:57 AM

Thank you.  I was gonna say something, but…. thanks.

Comment #91: themann1086  on  12/04  at  01:29 PM

I’m very bad at names, too.  Phil =/= Bill.  I always forget names and faces and such.

Don’t be too hard on yourself—besides the similar-sounding names, both men share an addiction to the cold gaze of the TV camera lens. Phil has tamed the monkey on his back, but Bill is almost the definition of a degenerate addict.

He’ll watch the cartoon version, thankyouverymuch, but that looks REAL, and animals shouldn’t talk.

Sounds like your eldest tumbled head-first into the kid’s version of the Uncanny Valley.

Comment #92: Gracchus  on  12/04  at  01:33 PM

“The figures symbolize fertilization and the hope for prosperity in the coming year, according to Joan.”

Sounds like a pre-Christian folk tradition, actually. I wonder if some rural Catalonians moved to the city in the 1700s and brought an old folk practice with them.

Comment #93: Jon H  on  12/04  at  01:36 PM

I like the idea of Satan being a beaver, because that means that perhaps all Christian horror at women and their ladyparts could be attributed to a misunderstood homonym.

Comment #94: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/04  at  01:43 PM

And then they blow it all by refusing to actual imagine their Christ doing the things that all humans do. If Jesus didn’t poop, pee, fart, get head colds, stub his toes, and all the myriad uncomfortable, indignified human things, then all of Catholic theology goes “Poof!”

It’s like that advice about distinguishing between infatuation and love - if you can’t imagine them taking a good long crap, then it’s just infatuation.

Comment #95: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  12/04  at  01:43 PM

Kudos to Ms. Kate for “What would Jesus doo?” That’s two kinds of brilliant right there.

P.S. Phil Donahue spells his name with an A.

Comment #96: Orange  on  12/04  at  02:19 PM

Maybe next year they’ll make one of Bill Donohue.  Made of shit.

Comment #97: wwew  on  12/04  at  02:21 PM

I like the idea of Satan being a beaver, because that means that perhaps all Christian horror at women and their ladyparts could be attributed to a misunderstood homonym.

Especially if Satan tempted Eve in the form of not a serpent but a beaver.

Comment #98: FlipYrWhig  on  12/04  at  02:30 PM

Maybe next year they’ll make one of Bill Donohue.  Made of shit.

But shitting a brick.

Comment #99: FlipYrWhig  on  12/04  at  02:30 PM

I love hanging out in Satan’s dam.

Comment #100: junk science  on  12/04  at  02:41 PM

The whole Den/Beaver/Satan thing gives a new meaning to Damnation, now doesn’t it?

Comment #101: Ms Kate  on  12/04  at  02:42 PM

I think everyone misses the point. The point is to to get Bill Donohue in front of the cameras.

Comment #102: Las Vegas Dave  on  12/04  at  03:31 PM

The Romans used sponges dipped in water on the end of sticks. Public latrines would have one or two of these for everyone to use. Yuk.

Gives a whole new level to the Roman soldiers stuffing a sponge “soaked in vinegar” into Jesus’ face when he was on the cross, doesn’t it?  Crucifiction was the worst punishment Roman law meted out, after all.

Comment #103: Geeno  on  12/04  at  03:34 PM

Actually - that should be “crucifixion”.  Crucifiction would be made up stories about the cross.

Comment #104: Geeno  on  12/04  at  03:36 PM

I think everyone misses the point. The point is to to get Bill Donohue in front of the cameras.

Word

Comment #105: atheist  on  12/04  at  03:40 PM

“When it’s degrading, everybody knows it except the spin doctors who run the museums,”

Spin Doctors run museums? Really? I thought they ran fundraising campaigns for Presidential libraries.

Billy D. is the one with the pocketful of Kyrptonite in this tale.

Comment #106: mdh  on  12/04  at  03:40 PM

As if to give my screen-name the meaning it so deserves…

meanwhile the funny thing about this comment…

And when i was a young catholic boy, one of the things that drove me to atheism was the thought of Jesus taking a steaming dump. It just seemed so undignified of a god.

...is that one of Carl Jung’s dreams involved the sight of God seated on his throne, floating on a cloud, only to see the bottom of the cloud open like a trap-door and drop a celestial steamer

Comment #107: The Crapture  on  12/04  at  04:03 PM

I’m going to start a sign making business.
It will specialize in signs saying;
BILL DONOHUE HATES ME!
BOYCOTTED BY THE AFA
CURRENTLY BEING PROTESTED BY (AFA, 700 CLUB, BILL DONOHUE, PAT ROBERTSON, ETC…)

These will be inexpensive and I’ll have a discount rate for non-profits.
I’ll make millions!
(and help small businesses)

Comment #108: Cynickal  on  12/04  at  04:22 PM

OOOOOOOOOH…AHHHHHHH….YEAHHHHHH…*spurt*...

there…that soon enough for ya, Kevin?

Comment #109: Either Jesus or Nick Manning  on  12/04  at  04:22 PM

Funny, my reaction to the Satan’s den comment was wondering if it was more casual than Satan’s living room. You know, with more comfy chairs and a big TV or something.

Comment #110: Lymis  on  12/04  at  04:31 PM

Satan’s breakfast nook uses ammonium nitrate instead of salt, FWIW.

...Is Catalonia in a nutrient-deprived soil region? My mental images (and lazy webscanning) mostly show an arid region, but if it’s also nitrogen- or phosphate- limited, then manuring a field can be the difference between crops and no crops. Very important process to recognize, and a charming way to do it.

Comment #112: clew  on  12/04  at  05:17 PM

I’ll bet Satan has a hella kewl Media Room

Comment #113: Grandjester  on  12/04  at  05:29 PM

This Donohue feller might be quite powerful, as Copia is closed due to a [guess!] financial meltdown.

That’s some strong juju there.

Comment #114: trollhattan  on  12/04  at  05:40 PM

Dude has dysgraphia. He meant to type “Santa’s Den,” a jolly place indeed.

Comment #115: trollhattan  on  12/04  at  05:55 PM

Where is Arele and her stick?

Comment #116: Ms Kate  on  12/04  at  06:05 PM

So how big do you think Jesus’ cock was?  Supposedly he didn’t use it for anything so you would think that it wouldn’t make a difference, yet I get the feeling that if you suggested it was anything less than 9 inches and thinner than a beer can those would be fighting words to a xtian.

Comment #117: pablo  on  12/04  at  08:12 PM

I am confused about how anyone would be able to fashion a caganer of Donahe, since his head is permanently lodged up his ass.

Comment #118: hploughjogger  on  12/04  at  08:28 PM

So how big do you think Jesus’ cock was?

I don’t care about how big Jesus’ cock was.  he was a man.

As Theron has said - ask a fundie theist what God’s penis is for.  If He doesn’t have one, then start asking about the use of the gender.

You can drive them into a jabbering frenzy if you get them to take that first question seriously enough.

Comment #119: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  12/04  at  08:42 PM

All this reminds me of possibly the most hilarious chapter in Catholic history—the Holy Prepuce:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Prepuce

Several different churches have claimed to have Jesus Christ’s Holy Severed Wang as their holy relic.  For a while, medieval scholars debated what happened to the foreskin when Jesus returned from the dead.  Was it returned to him, as part of his bodily resurrection?  or is it more like a fingernail clipping?

A taste from the Wiki article:

]The Holy Prepuce of Calcata is worthy of special mention, as the reliquary containing the Holy Foreskin was paraded through the streets of this Italian village as recently as 1983 on the Feast of the Circumcision, which was formerly marked by the Roman Catholic Church around the world on January 1 each year. The practice ended, however, when thieves stole the jewel-encrusted case, contents and all.

Comment #120: rufustfyrfly  on  12/04  at  11:11 PM

Maybe they plan to clone him?

Comment #121: pablo  on  12/04  at  11:14 PM

Oh, and this:

in 1900, the Church solved the dilemma by ruling that anyone thenceforward writing or speaking of the Holy Prepuce would be excommunicated.

DO NOT TALK ABOUT IT!

Comment #122: rufustfyrfly  on  12/04  at  11:16 PM

The practice ended, however, when thieves stole the jewel-encrusted case, contents and all.

“Encrusted” was not the kindliest choice of words…

Comment #123: FlipYrWhig  on  12/05  at  12:24 AM

...Is Catalonia in a nutrient-deprived soil region?

It depends on the zone, but yeah, a good part of the region has a poor quality soil, the only exception being the mouth of the main rivers and some parts of central Catalonia.
The thing is, in the end of the XIXth century almost all the buildings in Barcelona had a septic tank which was emptied once or twice a week, and its contents were sold to the nearby farmers. They say we can make money out of a stone, but we surely were able to make money out of the shit.

Comment #124: elgie  on  12/05  at  04:22 AM
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