Isn’t Calgary in Canada’s “Red State” ? I’d always heard that Alberta was the arch-conservative province of Canada.

Indeed. It goes to show you that even in Alberta, Bush has pissed off a whole lot of people.

That’s British Columbia, Ponygirl, and much of the west and plains of Canada is run/controlled by the batty right-wing Canadian brethern to American right-wing crazies.  Calgary is like the other large population centers in other parts of the West, vast pools of ‘blue’ in rural red provinces.

Ah—very good. I always associate BC with Vancouver so I don’t really think of it as arch-conservative, which I admit is as foolish as thinking that all of Louisiana is like New Orleans.

Uuuuuuhh, no, idiosynchronic.  Alberta, where I live, is THE red province of Canada. BC has become more conservative in the last few years, electing a Conservative gov’t after years of New Democrats, but Alberta is the most reliably right-wing province in the country.  It’s been a one-party (Conservative) province for over 30 years.  Calgary is an extremely conservative city as well.  I live in Edmonton, to it’s north, which has been one of the few spots of blue in the red sea, being much more an arts town where Calgary is corporate oil headquarters.

” batty right-wing Canadian brethern to American right-wing crazies.”

Thing is these conservatives would actually be called liberals by American conservatives if they knew what the Canadian conservatives actually supported such as gay rights and socalized medicine.

Tootired:  Our Alberta conservative gov’t is busily attempting to dismantle socialized medicine as much as they possibly can, and every election cycle they both make quite loudly clear their disapproval of gay rights and gay marriage.  Our federal Conservative leader would love nothing more than to be just like the Republicans.  He just realizes that he has no chance of pushing the populace that far right now.

“Nice to know his sorry ass is still as insensitive, pathologically narcissistic and blind about the damage he’s done to this nation and its citizens while in office.”

Well said. That needs to go on his headstone.

the Canadian conservatives actually supported such as gay rights and socalized medicine

Please don’t try to explain the politics of a country you know nothing about…

The Canadian conservatives don’t support gay rights. The Supreme Court ruled that our Charter (Bill of Rights, if you will) could not discriminate against gays, and thus that gay marriage was legal per our constitution. One of the Conservative party’s first act when getting into power was to try to pass a law/constitutional amendment to circumvent the Supreme Court’s decision (which, like American right-wingers would say, they called ‘judicial activism’). They also reopened the abortion debate that had been closed in the 90s, but that’s another story.

Also, Alberta (the subject of our article here) was the only province threatening to invoke the nonwithstanding clause on that decision. Long story short: a province can call for a referendum that, if won, means the province can ignore a federal decision on the Charter… sort of a ‘state’s rights’ thing that the federal government had to sign off on to get the Charter approved as part of the constitution because provinces didn’t want the federal government to intrude on their powers. So Alberta would have been the one province not recognizing the right of its gay citizens to marry. (The only use of the nonwithstanding clause I can think of, a famous one, is Quebec’s invoking of it to preserve its language laws, which are technically running afoul of the rights outlined in the Charter).

And we do not have socialized medicine. We have a single payer system.

I am so glad that some people at least protested his speech, though I must admit embarrassment as a Canadian that anyone paid to hear the lies of a war criminal.

It’s funny hearing Canadian provinces called by US political colours. The Canadian colours are exactly backwards from that: Conservatives are blue, Liberals are red, New Democrats are Orange… and well… the Green party didn’t really have any choice… lol…

Also, BlackBloc is correct, the Conservative party has realized that running against gay rights would hurt their chances and not win any new followers, but have never come out in support of gay marriage. They have just said that they won’t oppose it because they can’t win it at the moment (and the longer it’s legalized without the sky falling in, the harder it will be for them to win that battle thank goodness).

”I actually paid for a house last fall. I think I’m the only American to have bought a house in the fall of 2008,”

Go fuck yourself. I can’t believe that he STILL has no idea about what is going on in the real world. What a ginormous asshole.

Yeah, Quebec priests would preach from the pulpit with the slogan “Heaven is blue, Hell is red” to get the religious vote out against the Liberals. Around here, a Red State is a Liberal one.

I find it particularly funny because, to a far leftist like me, a Red State isn’t either a conservative or liberal one… it’s a communist one.

<blockquote>Isn’t Calgary in Canada’s “Red State” ? I’d always heard that Alberta was the arch-conservative province of Canada. </blockqote>

Well, yeah but it’s still Canada. Right Wing in Canada largely means fiscal conservative, although the Tories embrace more social conservative values to appeal to backwoods voters in Alberta, it’s no secret that Calgary is not the Tories’ big base of support for that.

Calgary also has a very large population of American Expatriates, who almost universally detested Bush, and celebrated Obama’s victory.

Calgary is a multi-cultural city with all sorts of Arts (just as much as Edmonton, Half Ass Saint, although I guess the civic rivalry has got to count for something), lots of Queer Culture and lots of activists. Calgarians don’t tend to vote very much, and those that do are reliable Reform/Alliance/Conservative voters, so we get scapegoated by the rest of the country as Canada’s “Conservative City”. This is partly because the talking heads in the city still fear a return to the NEP, when a liberal government a really long time ago destroyed the oil industry and threw a bunch of people out of work. In real life, Calgary’s pretty much like any other city in Canada, albeit with worse transit and warmer winters.

As a proud Calgarian I’m disgusted by the smear campaign that’s been leveled against Calgary for hosting Bush. As you saw, most of the city didn’t want him here. We didn’t elect the chamber of commerce. Harper’s in power because of Tories in Ontario. We aren’t the only ones to blame. No other party has made a serious attempt to contest Calgary ridings since the PCs imploded.

Blackbloc, in the interest of accuracy, there was never serious talk of a constitutional amendment (dear god, another meech lake over gay marriage!?), and by the time the federal Tories were in power, Gay marriage was a dead issue, even in Alberta. I remember talking to my parents before Gay marriage was law, and they were bitterly opposed. A year later, they admitted they were wrong, nothing much had changed, and gay marriage was a good idea. I think that’s how most of Canada reacted.

Alberta is what you get when you cross Texas with Alaska, but raise the level of education slightly and take care of any poor people - sort of.

That said, my bro’s getting married and I do plan to spend an extra day in Calgary just to look around the place.  I don’t think this reflects badly on Canada, I think a certain organization just removed all doubt about their stupid, though.

I’d assume that, calculated with God’s attention to each sparrow, that Bush really has cost the world and the US more wealth than Madoff has.

Wait…weren’t the protesters cordonned off in a Free Speech Zone a couple of miles from the auditorium?  They were allowed to assemble and to speak where people could see and hear them?

What’s that about?

“They were allowed to assemble and to speak where people could see and hear them?”

<american>Those Canucks can’t even handle free speech correctly.  Goddam commies…</american>

To this Quebecois, the distinction between whether it’s Albertans or Ontarians we have to blame for the Tories is moot. You’re all part of our colonial overlords anyway, and one day eventually your politics will be foreign politics.

All I care about is the fact so many asswipes here decided to vote for them.

BTW, I’m kidding. The only benefit I see from separatism is that, in the event of the rise of the Montreal Anarchist Commune, I’d rather have to face a poorly equipped Quebecois army than a slightly less poorly equipped Canadian army.

(Realistically, though, I expect either way we’ll get a nice visit from the United States army…)

I learned he was coming a few months ago, and considered slapping down the $400 for a seat at his lecture if only to blog about it later. I would likely have gotten in, too, because I have decent ties to the Chamber of Commerce.

But damn, I couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t give that fucker any money - even if it was for the privilege of roasting him later.

1500 people attended the event. 200 people protested it.

One of the Conservative party’s first act when getting into power was to try to pass a law/constitutional amendment to circumvent the Supreme Court’s decision (which, like American right-wingers would say, they called ‘judicial activism’).

No, that’s not what they did.  As much as I despise Harper, he gets credit for political smarts on this one.

For the Americans (and others) in the audience who might not know what happened…

Harper’s main problem when he assumed leadership of the party was the widespread perception that he had a bunch of right-wing, religious, bigoted nutcases on his side of the aisle.  Which he does, but he is aware that letting them run off at the mouth would be a disaster in most of the country.  They were firmly against gay marriage, but once the Supreme Court ruled that the proposed law the Liberals were going out would be upheld…

(sidebar: before the Liberals introduced the amendments allowing gay marriage, they asked the Supreme Court to look at them first to see if they would pass constitutional muster, as a way of preemptively dealing with challenges)

... and the law passed, it was quickly apparent that it was a losing issue for the Conservatives outside of the nutjobs.  Everyone else accepted it and got on with their lives.  Unfortunately, like in the US with the Republicans, the nutjobs wielded disproportionate power relative to their actual numbers.  If Harper gave into them and tried to repeal the laws, he’d be slaughtered in most of Canada, whereas if he didn’t do anything they’d cause such a stink that they’d make his leadership an issue.

So, he split the difference.  The vote on gay marriage would be a free vote meaning the party whips would not (officially) enforce discipline, and members could vote as they wanted.  Harper wasn’t stupid: he knew that even with a few socially-conservative Liberals voting the way the nutjobs wanted, the combination of the majority of the Liberals and virtually all the NDP and the Bloc, and some of the socially liberal Conservatives, meant that it was guaranteed to be killed.

The result was that he got the result he knew would be needed to make the Conservatives more palatable to the majority of Canadians, and would likewise make his nutjobs shut up because he could tell them “Hey, we tried and lost, time to move on.”  And, generally speaking, it’s worked.  Since that vote, gay marriage has gone off the table as a non-issue.

”I actually paid for a house last fall. I think I’m the only American to have bought a house in the fall of 2008

I can’t believe that most media outlets have not glommed onto that example of pure Wildean wit & ran with it. What a absolute fucktard. Nobody is THAT stupid - the man is PURPOSELY thumbing his nose at the peasants & livestock when he says stuff like this. Why? Because he can. Because he’s protected & pampered & knows that he has fucked over all the people that voted him in twice - and will live out his days in comfort & luxury, “writing” books & making “speeches” to put a positive historical spin on his crimes.

There is nothing I would like to see more than for Bush, Cheney & Rove to face the consequences for their actions. You know - just like the rest of us would if we had lied to, defrauded & were responsible for a substantial amount of deaths of those who had hired us to a job.

”I actually paid for a house last fall. I think I’m the only American to have bought a house in the fall of 2008.”

Only some with a clear conscience—as in, “I can joke about this because it wasn’t my fault”—could make a statement like that. Which is why I’ve never understood the emphasis that some religions place on conscience, per se. Unless it’s based on sound morality that’s grounded in reality, conscience doesn’t mean squat .

“And we do not have socialized medicine. We have a single payer system.”

Which is a socalized medicine as far as American conservatives as well as liberals are concerned. It’s how the Canadian system is marketed as to Americans by the media.

So yeah Canada has socialized medicine. Also most Canadian like the British conservatives don’t want to publicy oppose Socialized medicine since they know it would turn the rest of the populace against them so yeah they support it.  Most Canadians support the positions of gay marriage and socalizied medicine.

It’s only the ones who could be considered American ideological transplants or being funded by American conversatives (much like the evolution opponets in the UK) that want the Socalized medicine system to be overturned.

Linnaeus: It’s hard to see Lethbridge as a conservative city when you’ve been on campus for 6 years, but yes, I suppose it does have it’s share of Tories. The mormon population doesn’t help.

Wouldn’t “while addressing the Chamber of Commerce in Calgary” be a swell occasion for someone to serve a warrant on him?

“The mormon population doesn’t help.
“

So are they converts or immigrants or descendants of either?

what kodiak said

“Also, BlackBloc is correct, the Conservative party has realized that running against gay rights would hurt their chances and not win any new followers, but have never come out in support of gay marriage. They have just said that they won’t oppose it because they can’t win it at the moment”

Two federal elections ago, it was revealed that Harper had placed a gag order on some MP candidates, like Cindy White, who worked for one of those “Save Western Civilization and Teh Famileh from Teh Gay” organizations. She lost, BTW. They know most of Canada isn’t as wingnutty abot that kind of thing and view it with suspicion

“and not win any new followers, but have never come out in support of gay marriage. They have just said that they won’t oppose it because they can’t win it at the moment”
“

Which to American conservativies is the same thing as supporting it. Also when you ask a lot of Canadian conservatives turns out they state that the goverment shouldn’t decide if gays cannot marry so they do indeed support gays being married if it is legal.

So to a lot of American conservatives UK, Canadian and most people around the world who call themselves Conservatives would in fact be liberals or traitors.

Two federal elections ago, it was revealed that Harper had placed a gag order on some MP candidates, like Cindy White, who worked for one of those “Save Western Civilization and Teh Famileh from Teh Gay” organizations. She lost, BTW. They know most of Canada isn’t as wingnutty abot that kind of thing and view it with suspicion

Wasn’t that just part of Harper’s soft-pedaling the wingnut stuff to win the election? IIRC, he rode to victory mostly because everyone was pissed at Martin, for some reason that escapes me. (I get my news of Canada from U.S. papers, which basically ignore everything up there short of a mushroom cloud over Ottawa.)

I’m sorry but in my book, hiding the nuts under the carpet and hoping they don’t surface at election time is not ‘conservatives supporting gay marriage’. It just means that they’re less stupid than the American conservatives and thus are not willing to sabotage their own party in order to take an unpopular stand, while still holding these views in private. Kinda like racism (yes Virginia, Canadian conservatives are as fucking racist as American ones… it’s just that they can’t say it in public).

This is MORE dangerous than the American conservatives’ approach, not less.

BlackBloc, hasn’t Conservative support dropped significantly in QC since the summer? The arts fiasco, the comments about young offenders - you guys kept them away from a majority, merci beaucoup. 

I’m not surprised that there over 1000 folks who bought tickets - this is likely his only speaking appearance in Canada, and there’s easily that many Bushites from across the Canada. If they can afford to cough up $400 bucks to listen to that idiot, they can probably afford the trip from wherever it is they live (if they’re from outside Calgary). Not so much with the protestors!

<blockqupte>A note to our friends in Canada—the tab for the security operation during former Dear Leader’s visit will come out of your pocket—the RCMP’s budget.</blockquote>
Bush, mange un ostie d’char de marde mon crisse d’enfant d’chienne!
(untranslated for your precious eyes)

I’m sorry but in my book, hiding the nuts under the carpet and hoping they don’t surface at election time is not ‘conservatives supporting gay marriage’.

I never said it was.

What I am pointing out is that this is a lost cause for the ReformaTories, and Harper and the smarter members of the leadership realize this.  Gay marriage is not going to go away.  Oh, there will always by members of the party who think that if they ever get a majority they’ll get to do what they want, but again the Harper and company realize this dooms them.  If a strong social right wing (as opposed to economic right-wing) agenda was attempted, there’d be mass defections on the part of members from Ontario, Quebec and much of the Atlantic Provinces (as there would have to be members there somewhere to get that majority).

Even in the stronghold of Alberta, the majority of conservatives simple don’t care about gay marriage any more.  Remember, as the federal legislation was going through, how Ralph Klein was going on about using the Notwithstanding Clause to prevent gay marriages in Alberta from taking place?  Klein, whatever his other faults, isn’t stupid either.  When it came to shit or get off the pot, Klein and the Alberta Conservative Party quietly turned out the light on the issue, closed the door, and have not talked about it since.  And this is a province where the Conservatives have essentially a one-party state due to the complete ineptness of the opposition.  And, a few blowhard columnists or radio hosts aside, there’s been no move to do that or significant push from the conservative base to force their hand on the issue.

In other jurisdictions I personally know some die hard, religious, socially conservative politicians and political leaders who pontificated long and hard a few years ago but don’t care about it any more either.  Most have decided that, even if they don’t personally like the idea of homosexuality or gay marriage, complaining about it, let alone threatening to do anything about it, is pointless.

The issue is over.  Barring some utterly ridiculous social upheaval, the fight is over.  We, the good guys, won.  Oh, sure, there will always be people complaining.  People still complain about women having the vote.  That doesn’t mean women are about to be disenfranchised any time soon.

It boggles the mind that anyone would pay $400, or even $4 to hear that babbling moron spew drivel and lies.  Our RCMP should be arresting him, not protecting him.

Something about eating puppy shit, yes? It’s been decades since French class…

BlackBloc, hasn’t Conservative support dropped significantly in QC since the summer?

Not enough, my friend. Not nearly enough. Also, the fact they voted for them even once grates. Most of it comes from Quebec city, where right-wing populism has been on the rise for years now (the Mayoresse Boucher, CHOM FM, Jeff Fillion, etc etc).

Alberta is Saudi Canada. The oil wealth combines with prairie conservatism—you get awful oil-sands towns like Fort McMurray where everyone’s there just for the money. It was the place where the Reform Party was born, courtesy of Preston Manning, and there’s a huge difference between old-school Tories and western Reform types. And Calgary is not bumfuck Alberta.

BC is different: half the population wants to cut down trees, the other half wants to hug them. On a federal level, the Libs and NDP hate each other with sufficient passion to allow the CPC to win seats; on a provincial level, the Liberals (who are actually conservatives) under Campbell got in because the NDP was a bit fucking incompetent.

sirkowski: that was some deeply impressive profanity.