Um, so I think that *could* be interpreted to mean something along the lines of “I disagree with same-sex marriage on religious grounds but it should be legal anyway because America’s awesome like that,” in which case she’d be more intelligent than pretty much everyone else that’s publicly stated they religiously disagree with same-sex marriage, because it would mean she understands the separation of church and state.

On the other hand, the way that reply is phrased makes me feel like that would probably be an over-generous interpretation, because if she were smart enough to mean that she’d also probably be smart enough to say it.

Now I’m confused.

Ah, the Miss USA pageant, where you don’t even have to pretend to have a talent other than looking pretty in a swimsuit.  God bless ‘em.

No masters - she’ll find a bachelor after her bachelors and get herself an Mrs I’d bet.

God wants it like that.

You know what I hate? The way biblical fundamentalist right-wing protestants (mostly Baptists and Pentecostals) have redefined the word “christian”. I mean, since when did “christian” mean being against gay marriage.

When Kristin Chenoweth, who is pro-equality, was on Fresh Aire it was taken as read that “christian” meant fundamentalist protestant.

Well, I think it’s great that Americans are able to choose one or another. Um, we live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage.

Opposite marriage? Opposite? Seriously? Is that like opposite day or something? And who’s “choosing” this?

<em<And, you know what? In my country and in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman.</em>

Ahh, in “her” country. Apparently we all live somewhere else and she’s visiting us. And no one gives a shit about what you believe in your family. Your family can’t decided what the rest of us get to do. 

It did cost me my crown. I wouldn’t have had it any other way.

I didn’t watch this, but if there was a clip on the internets where someone would’ve asked her, “If you’re doing all this hard work on behalf of God why didn’t God let you win?” I would’ve shit my pants with glee at seeing her trying to wrap her mind around that conundrum.

BTW, what cost her her crown wasn’t her bigotry and ignorance so much as her grammar and sentence structure.  Jesus doesn’t like sore losers - I’m sure this loss simply must have been part of His plan for her.

The minute the phrase “how I was raised” is used as part of your justification, you’re no longer representing your Lord or expressing your opinion.  You’re just admitting that you’re a moron who cannot think for themselves.  She offered nothing of substance.  Not even the old standby of the Bible saying it’s wrong (a verse I can’t find, btw).

My parsing of this is that she’s got to somehow reconcile what she understands from the question and from limited exposure to media sources—that same-sex marriage is legal in at least some places in the US—with her knowledge that there’s going to be one all-fired big knuckle-rapping ruler waiting for her back at school if she says it’s OK.  Once she didn’t win, of course, it was all about playing the oppressed-christian card, because she sure doesn’t have anyone who’s going to give her a job on the secular circuit.

If she was a true christian, she wouldn’t be parading around in her bathing suit on tv, causing young males to have impure thoughts and actions.

If fundie Christians weren’t busy trying to impose a theocracy on everyone, they’d just be the most boring people on earth.

I lived in San Diego for 5 years and I had never heard of her college until today.  I was shocked (SHOCKED!) to find out it was established by the guy who wrote the “Left Behind” books and its stated mission is to promote Biblical Creationism in Higher Education.

By the way, why does anyone on Earth give a shit what Perez Hilton thinks about anything?  I mean, seriously.  This is the Battle of the Stupid.

“she has helped refugees learn to speak English” 

Her hair speaks better English than she does.

Supporting marriage equality isn’t politically correct. It’s common decency. I don’t give a shit if you get the heebeegeebees when you think of two ladies making sexy time. I get the heebeegeebees when people hate on gays. But I don’t protest your right to do so.

I agree with Spooky Skeptic, it’s what I was going to say.  Why just assert that you’re not changing your views from what you were raised to think or say?  I have so much trouble believing that people not only don’t question their own and their parents’ beliefs from time to time, but to declare it so proudly as a justification for everything.

It’s a thing you see on a lot of blogs and forums too, in a slightly different form: “That’s just my opinion,” implying that there’s really no reason to having an argument, the speaker just has this opinion the same way he may have hazel eyes or black hair.  Do these people really think of their opinion as being totally arbitrary, and worth only expressing and not defending?

<block>Carrie has recently been serving with a ministry that seeks to reveal Christ’s transforming love to women in the adult entertainment industry. Led by a young women who herself was delivered by Christ, the group “gets real” with these women and discusses their problems and life struggles.  Carrie feels that she can connect with women her age and believes that God is using her to bring hope to others. </block>
Lol. I remember them from being a stripper, all about how god doesn’t want you to do that kind of thing outside of marriage / share that with someone else, etc., and btw Jesus loves you! I mean, I’ll give that there is a lot of pornography and such that exploits women and if Jesus freaks want to help them out, hooray, but I’ve always found that the only person a woman would do those things is because she never met with Jesus rather nauseating.

But I don’t quite understand her quote, it’s great that Americans can choose same-sex marriage, but it shouldn’t be that way in her country? What? Is she from another country? I mean, while I think it silly if she believes marriage is only one man, one woman it is different if she feels the country should go that way. However, if that is the case, express yourself more eloquently to a judge that might not be on board. Or lose your crown for not being able to separate church and state.

In my country and in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman.  Um…you think you believe?  Are you not sure?

“It did cost me my crown.”  YOUR crown?  Don’t recall seeing your name on it, Miss Thang.

“But I was raised in a way that you can never compromise your beliefs and your opinions for anything.”   Even when those opinions and beliefs are disgracefully ignorant and intolerant, apparently.  How did this idiot even make it past Miss Crabcake or whatever?

It would have been better if Perez hadn’t responded by calling her a dumb bitch.

Really, at this point the whole thing is about as important to me as watching two drunk assholes get into a fight outside of a bar. Minimal rubbernecking entertainment, and I really don’t care who wins.

Since when does being a Christian mean you have to be an inarticulate bleached blonde?

Re:  how I was raised:  I guess.  There are a decent number of arbitrary cultural mores, hobbies, and other things that were established by how I was raised.  Since they’re consistent with my morality and work perfectly well, there was no reason to go through great effort to change them.

It’s not what she’s talking about, sure, but the phrase itself does have useful meaning for decent people.

I’m still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Perez Hilton is a judge for the Miss USA pageant.  How many potential judges did they go through to end up with him on the short list?

In addition to her passion for young women

I can’t be the only person who sniggered upon reading that. 

But then, I have been reading Pride & Prejudice & Zombie, so my double entendre meter is on high alert.

Opposite Marriage- Just like regular marriage, but everyone is evil and has a goatee.

Wow you are all very accepting people.

And it’s wonderful that you have to be PC to be Miss America. Cause we all know how important being PC is, right?

“Opposite Marriage- Just like regular marriage, but everyone is evil and has a goatee.”

Everyone? My God!  And here I thought it was just Spock…

And it’s wonderful that you have to be PC to be Miss America. Cause we all know how important being PC is, right?

Psst.  Miss America and Miss USA are two different contests and the winners are two different people. 

You may want to learn how to use the Google before you comment again.

And it’s wonderful that you have to be PC to be Miss America. Cause we all know how important being PC is, right?

PC, no.  Not being a bigoted asshat who seems to think that her upbringing should trump everyone else’s values, yes.  The Miss USA pageant does claim that character is a part of deciding who wins, and I think that bigotry tends to detract from character.

Phobic does not mean only fear. It means also hatred.

Is jumpinjim for real? Is this satire? I just can’t tell anymore.

i love fundies like jumpinjim and downwithbrock who use PC to mean ‘anyone who is mean to be for my ignorant, incoherent, uneducated asshole comments.’ it’s kinda sad, you know? god forbid the american, even pageant-watching, public want someone up there who 1. sounds like she has a college education and 2. is not a stupid asshole. saying that two people shouldn’t get married because of YOUR religion is the height of narcissism. it’s how toddlers think, that the world must cater to their immature, irrational fears and hate. seriously, why do you trolls hate america? you don’t want to live in a democracy. you’re just too fucking scared to move to iran. maybe you project your hate on such countries because their manner of thinking is a little too close for comfort.

theocracy: “For believers, theocracy is a form of government in which divine power governs an earthly human state, either in a personal incarnation or, more often, via religious institutional representatives (i.e., a church), replacing or dominating civil government.”

not the united states. love it or leave it, right? then get out since you don’t fully value the constitution and democracy of the country you supposedly love.

I am so happy that the Miss Sweden pageant has been rendered irrelevant, though it’s a pity that they started up the competition again after a short hiatus.

Do you know anyone who is literally made phobic and experiences panic attacks in the presence of a HOMOSEXUAL?

...considering that this exact thing is considered a valid *legal* defense in this country, well, YES. </feeding troll>

On a lighter note, I want to hear this runner-up’s views on evolution! ^^

(Dammit, Dan, do you want the terrorists to *win*?!) :D

Hahaha, I knew that would get a rise out of you.

1. America’s not a democracy chibi (lmao “CHIBI”!?!?!) its a constitutional republic.
2. Ad hominem is good and all, but it’s not a legitimate way to argue. (That one’s to all of you “accepting” people.)
3. I’m not a fundamentalist, chibi, hehehe: chibi, but nice try.
4. Sorry I don’t care if “anyone…is mean to be…”. Maybe if they were mean to ME, I might care but I doubt it.
5. PC’s not in style anymore?
6. I have nothing against gay marriage. But nice try.
7. Say it with me now: “CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.” Not a democracy. There ya go!

“Sounds like she has a college education”

Sounds like someone should take their own advice.

I’m not a fundamentalist, chibi, hehehe: chibi, but nice try.

Am I the only one imagining the Jon-Stewart-imitating-Bush laugh here? :D I am literally hearing that voice every time I read this…

Shorter DownWithBRock: Good thing everyone else is a figment of my imagination. That way it doesn’t matter if no one else thinks I’m witty

Jeez, you really need an editor, guy. Itemized lists are so 1997.

And it’s wonderful that you have to be PC to be Miss America. Cause we all know how important being PC is, right?

You can always tell a bigot by how they use the term ‘politically correct’. They mean: hiding bigotry because it’s not fashionable (but never for one second wonder about why it might be so), and not being able to insult people because you’re, like, so oppressed. As opposed to, you know, putting yourself in others’ shoes, checking your privilege at the door, and realising that it’s not all about you.

She is, of course, perfectly entitled to her own opinion on gay marriage; she doesn’t have to do it herself, she doesn’t have to approve of it, she can think her god will smite everyone involved. Whatever. What she isn’t entitled to is the assumption that her opinion should be law for everyone, including those who don’t share its religious basis, simply because it’s her opinion.

Whine about it as much as you like, but it won’t change the fact that the only real way to keep people from calling you a bigot is to stop being a bigot.

Well ... maybe.  Seems that one matter of dealing with humans is that every issue of ethics has it’s proprietors of “perfect” morality who will let you know at every possible turn how much holier than thou they are.

Seems that some people confuse the use of proper manners, considerate and polite speech to be “politically correct”.

Removing hate from your random gruntings is the first method of joining polite society.

Um, so I think that *could* be interpreted to mean something along the lines of “I disagree with same-sex marriage on religious grounds but it should be legal anyway because America’s awesome like that,” [snip]

That was my take on her answer after reading it, but maybe I’m being too charitable.  After seeing the youtube clip, my take on it was being somewhat shocked in how vacuous and dumb she seemed to be spouting that crap.  And she’s pretty, but not spectacularly so.  She’s 2nd place?  Where were the other 48 states?  I know it’s shallow of me to think that, but it is a beauty pageant.

I’m am sick and tired of people like you throwing around the epithet HOMOPHOBIC like Ahmadinejad throws around RACIST. Do you know anyone who is literally made phobic and experiences panic attacks in the presence of a HOMOSEXUAL?

Homophobia is a perfectly accurate word.  People who hate homosexuals generally fear them.  Homophobes fear gay marriage because a successful gay marriage removes their justification for misogyny within their own marriage.  Also, homophobes fear the possibility of men being treated as badly in marriage as women are treated in their own marriages.  Conservatives go to great lengths to insist that their marriage has to be misogynistic because the sky will fall if a man ever cooks dinner or if a woman wears the figurative pants.  If there is a marriage where roles are not defined strictly based on genitals, and the sky doesn’t fall, then it’s much harder for conservatives to justify their crappy marriage, and also much harder to convince women to stay in that kind of marriage.

jumpinjim, you’re not only a troll, but you’re also homophobic.  You’re afraid that relationships not based on misogyny will be successful and it will be that much harder to pretend that your own misogyny is necessary.

Led by a young women who herself was delivered by Christ…

I didn’t know Jesus was a practicing obstetrician… or a UPS man.

In addition to her passion for young women…

Now that IS illegal in all 50 states.

>>I’m am sick and tired of people like you throwing around the epithet HOMOPHOBIC like Ahmadinejad throws around RACIST. Do you know anyone who is literally made phobic and experiences panic attacks in the presence of a HOMOSEXUAL?

Bzzzt, fail. Arguments from etymology are bunk. Words mean what they actually mean, as determined by how people use them, not by what bits and pieces of the words mean when they show up in other words, or what they meant x number of years ago, or what the word would mean if you were in charge of inventing the English language instead of letting it develop like languages do, or whatever.

That rambling, gibberish answer reminds me of George Bush.  Like she doesn’t know the answer, so she’s trying to get all the phrases in that she’s supposed to fall back on.

Um. That answer makes no sense—does she really believe that marriage for same-sex couples is available in every state?

Probably.  If her entire worldview is based solely on what her parents/church leaders told her, I wouldn’t be surprised if she is unaware of the current situation.

I also agree with everyone above who mentioned that is offensive when people claim it is a “Christian” value to be intolerant and homophobic, as many Christian groups have no problem with homosexuality.

7. Say it with me now: “CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.” Not a democracy. There ya go!

Are you 12 or do they just not teach Civics in high school anymore?

I’m just amazed that this woman thinks the difference between having God and your life and not having God in your life is the presence of a tiny bikini and lack of a pole.  This pageant is only slightly less revealing than a stripper act, yet she seems to feel that she is morally superior somehow.  It’s a pretty thin line for her to draw between perfectly acceptable to God and morally wrong and slutty.  Maybe it’s because it’s socially acceptable for men to marry a beauty pageant contestant and be proud of it, but it’s not socially acceptable for a man to marry a stripper.

So here’s my beef.  You know what the job of a beauty pageant winner is?  It’s to run around the country acting as a mascot for whatever sponsoring organization is willing to front the big bucks.  You could be opening a foster home for disabled children today, celebrating Macy’s 50th anniversary tomorrow, and giving the eulogy of a fellow <strike>prom queen</strike> award winner the day after.  All while doing promos for cosmetics companies and clothing lines.

Questions like this aren’t designed to get the answer that best reflects your moral beliefs.  Their designed to see if you know how to keep the maxim number of people happy when placed on the spot and how, once your moment in the spotlight is up, to keep your big yap shut.  Because - let’s get real - you’re getting paid to look pretty.

So Miss California failed.  She offended a bunch of people and spoiled her unblemished image.  Now, the next time she goes to a spa opening, everyone’s going to start asking if this is a homophobic spa or if the owner just donated a few grand towards Prop 8 or what.  That makes her significantly less employable.

Please note:  I’m not a huge fan of beauty pageants for a whole host of reasons, and I’m endorsing the “Pretty women need to STFU” mentality by any stretch.  But that’s the job you audition for when you get in these contests, and it’s worth noting.  The judges didn’t just fall out of thin air.  They’re representatives from ad agencies that have a very discrete agenda.

“In addition to her passion for young women…”

Oh, the things you could do by taking that out of context…

There will of course be consequences for the incident at the pageant: I expect that Perez Hilton will either not be invited back as a judge, or will have to have his questions screened before he’s allowed to ask any.

Zifnab, I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Ok so I see none of you actually read what I wrote, so I’ll restate it:

I’m NOT against gay marriage.
I don’t care either way. Honestly, DON’T CARE. You wanna get married? GREAT!

What I do care about, is people who hurt their own causes by throwing temper-tantrums and screaming “BIGOT!!!!!” at anyone who disagrees with them.

Let me ask you something: Is there a polite way to say marriage is between a man and a woman? Or is it simply bigoted to disagree with you?

As for my age: I’m older than twelve, younger than thirty. And I passed AP US Gov. in highschool with an A, both semesters. Got a 5 on the test. So fuck yourself, Sarcastro.

As for the rest of you: it’s not bigoted to disagree with you. In fact, it’s bigoted to think one’s opinions are the ONLY way and all others are WRONG. So you’re the bigots. Not me. You.

What I do care about, is people who hurt their own causes by throwing temper-tantrums and screaming “BIGOT!!!!!” at anyone who disagrees with them.

You and jumpinjim are the only ones throwing a temper tantrum here.  I don’t really care if this woman doesn’t like gay marriage.  No one is trying to force a gay marriage onto her or anyone else who doesn’t want it.  But she shouldn’t be such a sore loser about this.

The bigotry comes in people like Ms. Prejean trying—and succeeding for a long time—to impose their personal and/or religious beliefs about marriage upon those who do not share those beliefs.  It is not bigoted to disagree with me.  It is, however, bigoted to be offended that I demand the same rights that straight people enjoy.  It is bigoted to say that my marriage is not real because my wife and I are both women, that our family is not real.

If this upsets you, DownWithBRock, perhaps you should point your browser towards someplace where the people there won’t say anything like the above paragraph.  There are plenty.

I’m older than twelve, younger than thirty. And I passed AP US Gov. in highschool with an A, both semesters. Got a 5 on the test.

So, not very much older than 12.

That’s one of the reasons why I draw a fairly sharp distinction between “morality” and “ethics,” even though their dictionary definitions tend to imply that they’re interchangeable.

With you, Dan, to the point where I flushed the word “morality” out of my vocab years ago, after it was coopted by the sin brigade to refer to (and denounce) what folks do with their ugly bits in the privacy of their homes. 

I happily go along with the word “ethics” now, because “sin” doesn’t trouble me in the least.

On another note, and because I have to vent somewhere, I was recently served the “PC” accusation the other day by a married couple who have been longtime friends.  The wife is back at school, in a program where there is lots of group work.  She commented that all-women groups she’s put in are inefficient, silly, and slow, and that better work gets done when there’s one or more males in her group Her and her husband are firmly grounded in essentialism and have long thought I’m “off” by challenging notions of fixed gendered behaviour. The ensuing discussion wasn’t pretty; her husband even followed up the topic with a story about an irrational woman on the other end of a sales call the other day (passive aggressive, nuh?).  I suppose I’m the PC man-hater now, in their eyes.

Fucking sigh.

“I’m older than twelve, younger than thirty. And I passed AP US Gov. in highschool with an A, both semesters. Got a 5 on the test.”

So, not very much older than 12.

Yeah, but what’s his IQ? :D

Echoing Mnemosyne, why the fuck is Perez Hilton on my teevee in the first place? As if the pageant wasn’t stupid enough already.

Older than 12 and younger than 30.

That very statement indicates you can count. So why can’t you see that ‘more than one’ (a republic) is not mutually exclusive of ‘all’ (a democracy)?

Only a nation of one person could possibly be a democracy and NOT be a republic.

Go kick your AP American Government teacher square in the nuts, he did you a disservice by not educating your ignorant ass worth a good god damn.

Personally, I don’t see what the big deal is. Her first two sentences are entirely noncontroversial, and the only place where she potentially gets in trouble was where she used the phrase “in my country”, which, on the video version at least, she seemed to immediately correct to “my family”, hence giving the impression that she was talking about her personal views, and not something meant to apply to everyone as a whole.

In any event, how is her position substantially different that that officially taken by The One himself? Has not Obama publicly stated that marriage should be a man/woman thing, or does he get a pass because he’s a politician and politicians have to say these things to get elected, but a ditzy (but cute!) blonde on a TV contestant show doesn’t?

It’s different because since she lost the contest she’s been very publicly complaining that that nasty homosexual and his gotcha trick questions cost her the title that was rightfully hers.  (Despite, as has been mentioned, evidence to the contrary.)  This is entirely typical behavior from the privileged—c.v. all those white people who sued because affirmative action totally made it so some brown person got the university admission that they would have otherwise gotten.

For what it’s worth, if Mr. Obama had lost the election and blamed it on the Homosexual Agenda I’d be disgusted with him too.

EricJG, it’s not about her opinion, it’s that she’s being such a sore loser after offending people, and claiming that they just shouldn’t be offended by it and she should have won.  Also, stop with acting like we worship Obama.  I disagree with his view on gay marriage, but he’s not crying about losing something because of it.

She’s a bigot but Perez Hilton ultimately is the one who looks the worse here. He asked her question, she gave an answer. He had no reason to expect that she would give the answer he personally would have liked. By creating a controversy with this, Perez is effectively making her a martyr for the Right. By calling her names, he comes off childish and hurts the fight for marriage equality.

I really despise that Perez Hilton is becoming some kind of spokesman for my rights. The guy just needs to disappear.

EricJG—

Actually, no, Obama doesn’t get a pass on his views on gay marriage from a lot of folks, including me.  But thanks for playing.

I was channel surfing last night and stumbled onto the final five questions.  The first one was political so I stayed to watch them all, hoping for a repeat of the Miss Teen USA blunder of a year or two ago.  I thought she meant to say “state” when she said “country” since she’s from California.  And I thought she was trying to say that it’s fine with her that there is freedom of choice on the issue (sorry sweetie, not in your state anymore and not in very many states yet) but that personally she thought marriage should be between a man an a woman only.  This is a position indistinguishable from Obama.

I may have not been thinking completely clearly, though, since I was also trying to get my head around the idea that someone hired Perez Hilton to judge a women’s beauty pageant.  I was also scratching my head after a specific issue question was answered with a little prepared speech on integrity, which had nothing to to with the question. 

That Perez made an ass out of himself last night and this morning on the talk shows wasn’t much of a surprise.  Also, when I learned Prejean is on the God squad (“I don’t need to be politically correct, I’d rather be biblically correct.”) I wasn’t surprised she seized on this as a way of taking up the religious right’s banner of anti-gay marriage.  Her position today, which got her on the Today show, is more strident than the one she inarticulately took last night.

Hahaha, I knew that would get a rise out of you.

What, that you don’t know the difference between Miss America and Miss USA and yet expect all of us to be impressed by your astounding inability to use Google?

Yes, yes, I’m sure you took AP history.  Or, actually, that you’re so totally going to do it when you get to high school and you’re, like, totally going to show all of us losers how totally smart you are!  Except for the whole “inability to use Google” thing, which all of your friends totally know doesn’t matter, ‘cause it’s not like the AP history test makes you remember facts or anything.

Perez Hilton is equally guilty of throwing a public tantrum, but he was the judge and it was his job to make a decision based partly on what the contestants said.  If I knew that a judge wanted to see skinny girls, I’d try to lose weight (or not participate).  No overweight or even normal women would stand a chance in this pageant.  If I knew that a judge wanted to hear something specific, I’d tell him what he wanted to hear.  It’s easier to lie about your positions than to transform your body anyway.  Why is it OK to judge the contestants on their looks but not their bigoted views?  I think the whole contest is silly, but if you’re in it, give the judges what they want or don’t complain when you lose.  She didn’t even have to hide her views, she could have just pretended to be tolerant about it.  Or she could have actually seemed like she was informed about the facts on the issue.  But that’s not what she did.  Also, she didn’t answer the question very clearly, which is bad no matter what the content.

I get that he’s a judge and that if she wanted to win all she had to do is say what he wanted but my concern here is not the unspoken rules of beauty pageants but rather how the Right will manipulate this for leverage in the debate concerning my community’s equal rights. Perez Hilton played right into Right wing frames (“If gay marriage is legalized we will all be forced to approve of it! OH NOES!!”) by making her answer into more of an issue then it should be. She has a right to her opinion and we (and Perez) have a right to call her what she is, a bigot. But Perez’s behavior crossed a line and the Right will have no problem making this woman a new Anita Bryant.

Perez Hilton is a self-aggrandizing asshole.  His star has been waning lately, so he figured out a way to get himself back into the public eye.

It’s unfortunate that this woman fell for his schtick, but no one ever accused the Miss USA contestants of being particularly bright.

So, wait. She took second place? And she’s complaining that her answer lost her the crown?

OK, here’s my question: how does the self-aggrandizing little twerp know that she wasn’t further behind than second place and that some other judge scored her higher for her homophobia, sorry, I mean religious morals?

In other words, how does she know that her answer didn’t win her second place instead of 3rd or 4th?

Let me ask you something: Is there a polite way to say marriage is between a man and a woman? Or is it simply bigoted to disagree with you?

Let’s rephrase the question, as it may have been asked a few decades ago.

Let me ask you something: Is there a polite way to say marriage is between a white man and a white woman? Or is it simply bigoted to disagree with you?

No.  There is no polite way to be a bigot.

“Let me ask you something: Is there a polite way to say marriage is between a man and a woman? Or is it simply bigoted to disagree with you?”

Yes.

Now show us how smart you are & figure out how on your own.

Also of note, which I havent seen mentioned yet, is the fact that in the aftermath of the pageant Perez has referred to Ms. Prejean as a bitch and a cunt.  One one think such blatantly sexist behavior would garner more notice around here, regardless of the victims beliefs.

I had the same thought as Kristin on this.  For all we know she was in fifth place before her answer.  Has anyone asked the other judges? 

She is just one more bigot, maybe a bit prettier than some of the hate filled anti-gay types like Fred Phelps, but all these people using their imaginary friends to deprive other people of their human rights are the same beneath the skin.

Thanks for your concern, chris!

Also of note, which I havent seen mentioned yet, is the fact that in the aftermath of the pageant Perez has referred to Ms. Prejean as a bitch and a cunt.  One one think such blatantly sexist behavior would garner more notice around here, regardless of the victims beliefs.

I guess you aspire to be a self-aggrandizing asshole just like Perez Hilton since it’s such a compliment for us to be calling him that here in the comments.  Repeatedly.

The difference between a Conservative and a Bigot:

Thinking Conservative: Because I was raised to believe that marrying a person of the same sex is wrong, and I believe my God says that marrying a person of the same sex is wrong, I won’t be marrying a person of the same sex.

Bigot: I was raised knowing that marrying a person of the same sex is wrong because God says so, so it should be against the law to marry a person of the same sex.

One one think such blatantly sexist behavior would garner more notice around here,

Ignorant bigots come in gay flavor too ... something you might have discovered before if you acknowledged that gay people are human, too.

And your point is ???

Decent description of a distinction Ms.Kate.  Which category would you put Ms. Prejean in?

“I disagree with his view on gay marriage, but he’s not crying about losing something because of it.”

True enough. But yet, I don’t see anyone calling him a “bigot” even though he has publicly stated basically the same position as she did. Is it because people think he really doesn’t believe it whereas she does? But that raises the question of whether it is worse to sincerely hold a view that some find offensive, or for someone to fake such a view to pander to people for the sake of political advancement?

At any rate, I thought the whole notion of asking such a question was stupid. I mean, what next? Should they be expected to give a view on other controversial issues like abortion or the Iraq War? It puts the person in a no-win situation. If they come out for gay marriage, they offend one group of people. If they come out against it, then they offend a whole other group of people. If they simply shrug and say “I don’t know” or “I don’t have an opinion” then they look the dullard, someone presumably too lazy to follow the issues or too stupid to form an opinion about them. And finally, if they try to take the “safe” route and come up with some mushy non-answer answer, then they look like they’re pandering and sacrificing principle for popularity.

And finally, what’s the point of asking political questions at all? If I want to see serious issues discussed by serious people who are paid to take such things seriously, then I’ll watch a news program or read the editorial page of the paper, thank you very much. All I expect of a beauty contestant is they look nice in a swimsuit and do “nice” things like charity work and supporting humanitarian causes. Asking them to give a “serious” opinion on some hot button topic is fully as ridiculous as asking the same of a pro athlete, and just about as relevant.

But yet, I don’t see anyone calling him a “bigot”

Well, hey - if you can’t be troubled to read what several posters just said here, hours before you posted, why should anybody be troubled to read too far into your post, eh?

“She is just one more bigot, maybe a bit prettier than some of the hate filled anti-gay types like Fred Phelps, but all these people using their imaginary friends to deprive other people of their human rights are the same beneath the skin.”

Pardon my asking, but isn’t this a bit, well, over the top? Phelps is a certified nut case and genuine hater, she’s just a sweet young thing who’s expressed a controversial, yet still rather mainstream opinion. Stating a belief in traditional marriage isn’t quite in the same league as showing up at a person’s funeral and publicly celebrating their death. I’m not sure that calling someone who believes the former a “bigot” accomplishes much, surely strong words like that should be reserved for those who genuinely merit them.

“The difference between a Conservative and a Bigot:
Thinking Conservative: Because I was raised to believe that marrying a person of the same sex is wrong, and I believe my God says that marrying a person of the same sex is wrong, I won’t be marrying a person of the same sex.
Bigot: I was raised knowing that marrying a person of the same sex is wrong because God says so, so it should be against the law to marry a person of the same sex.”

Right. And my interpretation of her views puts them much closer to the first than the second. She certainly said nothing about laws or bans or anything else, indeed her opening remarks suggested a lean toward the opposite. It’s the difference between abstaining from alcohol and opining that people shouldn’t drink versus supporting a return to Prohibition.

She certainly said nothing about laws or bans or anything else…

Uh, yeah, she did.  Highlighted for your convenience:

“In my country and in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman.”

That’s not, “It’s fine for other people to drink, but I prefer not to.”  That’s, “We need to bring back Prohibition.”

I would have had so much more respect for her had she kept it to the “in my country” sentence.  Pretending to think it’s “great that Americans are able to choose” was the FAIL, making her per Hilton a “dumb bitch.”

Seriously, Fred Phelps deserves more intellectual respect than this one.

Seriously, people, ad hominem is a logical fallacy for a reason. Perhaps I should’ve said this: I’m older than 18, younger than 30. Not that it really matters because by your logic my racist, piece of shit, great grandfather has more validity than any of you.

Sarcastro, I love you man. You know why? Cause it’s people like you who embarrass themselves for me. You are correct that MOST modern REPRESENTATIVE Democracies are Republics, however, Democracy and Republic do mean exactly the same thing. Republic used to mean “state”, but in time came to mean “state without a king”. Now the meaning has shifted again, and some say that there must be some way to either directly or indirectly elect the representatives for it to be a true republic, but I believe this definition to be slightly too exclusive. Anyway, you should probably read the Federalist Papers and see why the Founders (or the Federalist Founders, at least) did not want a PURE democracy, but chose to go with a Constitutional Republic (ALEXANDER HAMILTON FTW!!!!!!!)

Last time I checked, my IQ was 168, but I don’t put any stock in shit like that. Intelligence cannot be measured, and wisdom most certainly can’t, and I bet half of you think that statement was redundant.

I’m not offended by anything, you have to earn my respect before you can try to offend me, but I do get annoyed when people can’t argue without using insults or throwing names around. In her state, California, she would be technically correct by saying marriage is between a man and woman, as defined by Proposition 8. (I’m not endorsing or condemning prop. 8, I’m just stating the legal fact.)

It is not bigoted to believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman. To be bigoted, one must be obstinately convinced of the superiority or correctness of one’s own opinions and prejudiced against those who hold different opinions. By this definition, half of you are bigots.

You have said there is no polite way to be a bigot. I didn’t ask that. I asked if there was a polite way to disagree with you, or if disagreeing with you qualifies a person as a bigot. You say that holding the opinion that marriage is between a man and a woman is by it’s very nature, bigoted. This only shows that you don’t know what the word ‘bigot’ means.

Yes I know how to use Google, but rarely do. I prefer to do my research in a library, but I’ve noticed more and more kids use wikipedia and google so I guess I should get with the times. Call me crazy but I have a natural suspicion of all things I read on the internet.

I guess what I’m trying to say is this:

I understand the frustration and anger when people disagree with you for stupid reasons. I do. But the way to change their mind is not scream “BIGOT!!!” every time they disagree. That’ll make them dig in their feet even harder and you lose any ground you could have gained with them. If you really want to change their minds, be polite and courteous even when they ARE being bigots and they won’t have a leg to stand on.

Thanks for your concern, DownWithBRock!  It’s sincerly appreciated.

What is that supposed to mean?

I do feel that this is a particularly sensitive moment for California in the spotlight, given that rural Iowa and Vermont have gone the full Massachusetts while Cali is lagging behind. But the Ms Californias of the state have a lot of sway, which might explain how she won her state’s pageant in the first place. The same rules that make beauty pageants in California amenable to homophobic beauty queens make it a state where anti-gay ballot initiatives can win. I think this one, we can write off as an anomaly—I’ll be fine if she stays Ms-representative-of-her-embarrassed-state-almost-USA.

Now, solving the Perez Hilton problem, I don’t know. I think his *reaction* is a much, much bigger deal, and probably a significant part of the *reason* Ms California thinks marriage should be between a man and a woman. Fighting Homophobia: U R Doing it Wrong.

Granted, Perez Hilton is a sexist jerkwad (which seems to be his vocation).  But gee, thanks for putting the blame for homophobia on us homosexuals.  It feels good.