Login

Register

Member List

RSS Feed

Amanda | Contact

Auguste | Contact

Jesse | Contact

Pam | Contact

Next entry: NC: Former Raleigh mayor sues radio host over gay allegations; sends outlandish letter to media Previous entry: How mainstream are “pro-life” extremists?

CA: Lesbian couple claims discriminatory treatment at Fresno hospital

Health CareLGBT

You would think a basic right—for partners to be able to have access to one another in the hospital during a medical emergency—isn’t a problem in California, of all places, but it allegedly is in this case. (The Examiner):

[Kristin] Orbin and her partner of 3½ years, Teresa Rowe, 30, who live in Northern California,  were in Fresno for Meet in the Middle 4 Equality, an event protesting the California Supreme Court’s ruling upholding Proposition 8.

After marching 14 miles in Central Valley heat, Orbin (who is epileptic) collapsed and suffered three grand mal seizures.  A doctor at a first aid center had difficulty finding her pulse, so he called 911.

Orbin said the discrimination started as soon as the paramedics arrived.

“By that time, I was awake and aware of what was happening.  They wanted nothing to do with Teresa and she had to practically fight them to be allowed to ride in the ambulance.  Once we got to the hospital, they wheeled me into a hallway and left me, refusing to allow Teresa to be with me.”

Orbin said the paramedic told the nurse on duty that she had collapsed after marching 14 miles for civil rights, and the nurse gave her a dirty look and said “ooooh.”  She continued, “I asked if Teresa could come back with me, but the nurse told me I was in a no visitor zone. When I asked her why everyone else had visitors, she said ‘those people are different’.

Interestingly, the doctor appeared to know that this situation was wrong and attempted to rectify the problem.

“When the doctor arrived, I asked him if Teresa could join me,” Orbin said.  “He asked me why she wasn’t already with me, and I told him the nursing staff told me I was in a no visitor zone.  The doctor gave me an odd look and said, ‘I will take care of that’.  He left the room, and a few minutes later Teresa came in, but she said she was told by the front desk that she could only stay for a few minutes.”

That also was resolved when the doctor must have intervened again and Rowe was told she could stay with Orbin until discharge. Read the rest.

For me it’s disconcerting because here in NC, both Kate and I have had to make trips to the emergency room (and even required admission) and not one time was our relationship and roles even questioned by hospital personnel. For that I am thankful, because incidents like the one this California couple experienced show you that even when there may be the law on your side, there’s no guarantee that personal bigotry of “medical professionals” might stand between you and prompt, adequate health care, emergency or not.

------

Registration is now required! We're still in the process of getting it all squared away, so for the moment don't forget to Login or Register using the links in the upper left menu before starting to write your comment.

Posted by Pam Spaulding on 10:12 AM • (47) Comments

Just goes to show that just because someone is a medical ‘professional,’ it doesn’t mean s/he has compassion.

Comment #1: Kristen from MA  on  06/04  at  10:18 AM

Situations like this are why the additions to the New Hampshire law are so important. Now, gay couples aren’t able to shove their lifestyle down the throats of decent people, like that poor nurse, and force them to recognize these “families.” [/Governor Lynch]

Comment #2: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  06/04  at  10:26 AM

“those people are different’”

Yikes. Rarely does such a vague sentence have a specific, and rather upsetting, meaning.

Comment #3: Ben F.  on  06/04  at  10:40 AM

Fresno may technically be in California, but it is still a foul conservative armpit like many inland parts of the state.

Comment #4: Luke  on  06/04  at  10:40 AM

That also was resolved when the doctor must have intervened again and Rowe was told she could stay with Orbin until discharge.

Someone send a nice letter to that doctor because gods know he’s going to get a stream of hate mail. Nice to know that there are some people willing to step in and do the right thing, even when your co-workers are giving the stink eye the whole time.

Comment #5: Essie Elephant  on  06/04  at  10:48 AM

Is the point “having a right to do X” or “the best interests of the patient”.

The doctor gets that, the rest need to have their medical licenses tarnished until they get it.  It wasn’t about the visitor ... it is about the patient!

Comment #6: Ms Kate  on  06/04  at  11:17 AM

even when there may be the law on your side, there’s no guarantee that personal bigotry of “medical professionals” might stand between you and prompt, adequate health care, emergency or not.

Money quote there.

They need to sue the ever-living shit out of the hospital.  It’s stupid, but forcing a corporation to pay millions is the only way to be sure that assholes are forced to behave like civilized beings.

The nurses would never have dreamed of telling a black or inter-racial couple they couldn’t be together, no matter how racist they were, b/c they know they’d be fired for it instantly.  A few multimillion dollar suits and every hospital’s HR dept will make it known that discriminating against homosexuals is not only illegal, but will result in immediate dismissal.

The assholes will still be rude, and they will still mutter under their breath, but they won’t dream of keeping families apart if they value their jobs.

It pisses me off to no end that lawsuits and corporate behavior have to be invoked like this for basic human rights to be observed, but I’m all for anything that works.

Comment #7: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  06/04  at  11:22 AM

A female friend of mine was living with her long-time boyfriend, but they saw no reason to get married. (Sharon was a 50-something attorney, Mitch was a divorced, retired man in his 60s.) Then Mitch had a health crisis and nearly died, and though Sharon had absolutely no legal right to make medical decisions while Mitch was in dire straits, the hospital staff simply assumed the gray-haired folks were a married couple and turned to Sharon. (That’s heterosexual privilege for you there.)

When they realized that Mitch’s daughters could legally bar her from his hospital room and make decisions Sharon disagreed with, they decided to get married. Being straight, of course, they had the right to enter into an “opposite marriage.” The health care issue alone is ample reason to demand same-sex marriage rights now—especially as the giant baby boomer generation ages and becomes more likely to end up needing hospital care. I foresee a lot of difficult medical situations being made more horrendous as a result of the lack of protections for same-sex couples.

Comment #8: Orange  on  06/04  at  11:50 AM

I think this transcends gay or straight marriage - the patient should have the unassailed right to have whatever visitors of whatever relationship they chose present.  The hospital may limit the number of said persons, but the patient should have the right to decide - even if they hate their family but are best friends with their neighbor.  Why does the hospital have any say?

Comment #9: Ms Kate  on  06/04  at  12:04 PM

I think this transcends gay or straight marriage - the patient should have the unassailed right to have whatever visitors of whatever relationship they chose present.  The hospital may limit the number of said persons, but the patient should have the right to decide - even if they hate their family but are best friends with their neighbor.  Why does the hospital have any say?

Yes. This.

Comment #10: Essie Elephant  on  06/04  at  12:06 PM

Ironically, this is exactly the kind of crap that started straight people along the path to accepting gay marriage.  They (and by “they” I also mean at one point “me”) hear all of this scary, scary stuff about the freaky gheyz and the bizarro things they do and then you hear a story like this.  This is the kind of thing that everyone—heck, even my mildly homophobic mom—can hear about and think, “Well, I may not like what they do in the bedroom, but that’s just wrong.”

As a side note, this is the kind of stuff that the No on 8 people should have been putting into their commercials, not that soothing “it’s okay to be a homophobe” shit they were running during the election.  Who was their consultant, Bob Shrum?

Comment #11: Mnemosyne  on  06/04  at  12:07 PM

Well, I’m glad to hear that the doctor did the right thing at least.

Comment #12: bananacat  on  06/04  at  12:15 PM

Hating humanity this morning.

Comment #13: typist  on  06/04  at  12:46 PM

Did the nurse and paramedic graduate from the same University of Hate that gave us the pharmacist who refused to fill birth control prescriptions?

Sometimes, I wonder why, in modern America, we seem to be reliving paranoid, superstitious Middle Ages Europe.

Next will be witch burning, mark my words.

Comment #14: speedbudget  on  06/04  at  12:53 PM

I think Caren nailed it.

Many people in business and service sectors still feel secure in the idea that if they act in a heterocentric or outright homophobic way, whether it’s telling a joke or treating people differently, that they will have support or reinforcement from the people around them. Disabusing people of this notion is vital.

Comment #15: HooksInMyHead  on  06/04  at  01:06 PM

I’m kind of impressed—the culture of most hospitals is that the doctors are deities; the culture of hate must have been overwhelming for this to take place.

Yeah, the hospital needs to be sued a lot.

Comment #16: Punditus Maximus  on  06/04  at  02:24 PM

I live in Texas.  It’s big-city Dallas Texas, but it’s still Texas.  When I get sick or the wife gets sick (which happens with distressing frequency) we go to Baylor, which is associated with the Southern Baptist Church.  We’ve never had a problem with either of us getting into the other’s room whether it’s in Emergency or an actual hospital room.  Every time we go we dig out the marriage license just in case but no one has ever asked if we had any right to be there.

The point being: What the fuck was wrong with those folks up in Fresno?

Comment #17: kaninchen  on  06/04  at  02:26 PM

Someone send a nice letter to that doctor because gods know he’s going to get a stream of hate mail. Nice to know that there are some people willing to step in and do the right thing, even when your co-workers are giving the stink eye the whole time.

While it would behoove doctors to care what the nursing staff thinks (not in this case of course), common knowledge indicates that they usually don’t.  I’m sure the doctor will be fine.

Comment #18: keshmeshi  on  06/04  at  02:49 PM

Next will be witch burning, mark my words.

Something that us Wiccans are pretty concerned about, actually.

Comment #19: Essie Elephant  on  06/04  at  02:54 PM

As long as you weigh more than a duck you should be fine smile

Comment #20: HooksInMyHead  on  06/04  at  02:59 PM

Something that us Wiccans are pretty concerned about, actually.

Yeah.  It’s kind of a tossup as to whether they go after you first or come after the atheists.  Either way since we’re not Christian we have no moral sensibilities whatsoever.  Which means we’re evil, since their view of the human condition states that we’re all damned but for the grace of Christ.

Comment #21: kaninchen  on  06/04  at  03:12 PM

HooksInMyHead, it’s a fair cop.

It’s kind of a tossup as to whether they go after you first or come after the atheists.

Yeah, seems to depend on the denomination. Some of them see Wiccans as Satanic demon-worshippers who must be destroyed, whereas the non-demon-possessed atheists just need to be convinced to convert like everyone else.

The flip side are the others who see atheists as horribly threatening creatures who don’t believe in ANY god, whereas the spiritually-attuned Wiccans just need to be converted like everyone else.

I do get testy with the Internet Atheists (TM) who insist that Wiccans as a monolithic are “their enemies” because, well, hell, whether we burn first or second to the atheists doesn’t much matter and we’re generally attuned to recognize that and fight for religious freedom for EVERYONE. Besides, I’ve yet to meet a Wiccan who tried to ‘convert’ anyone, since they’re usually sick of the same happening to them.

But, no, seriously, there are some concerns. Mostly healthy paranoia, but Handmaid’s Tale seems more likely some days.

Comment #22: Essie Elephant  on  06/04  at  04:40 PM

<em>What the fuck was wrong with those folks up in Fresno?</i>

Like Luke said above, the whole Central Valley of California is wingnut central. Seriously. It’s 100 miles from San Francisco geographically, but closer to rural Georgia politically.

Comment #23: jonas  on  06/04  at  04:48 PM

D’oh! Sorry about the screwup on the markup tags.

Comment #24: jonas  on  06/04  at  04:49 PM

I do get testy with the Internet Atheists (TM) who insist that Wiccans as a monolithic are “their enemies” because, well, hell, whether we burn first or second to the atheists doesn’t much matter and we’re generally attuned to recognize that and fight for religious freedom for EVERYONE. Besides, I’ve yet to meet a Wiccan who tried to ‘convert’ anyone, since they’re usually sick of the same happening to them.

YES.  This is the important distinction.  A person’s personal beliefs are personal and not any of my business.  It’s when they try to convince me to convert to their beliefs (usually out of the misapprehension that I simply haven’t been exposed to the Word of [Their] God which is not true; I have read it and rejected it thanks) or to otherwise interfere with my life and my ability to enjoy the rights and responsibilities of being an American citizen that we have problems.  Faith isn’t the enemy.  Evangelism is the enemy, no matter what flavor it comes in.

Comment #25: kaninchen  on  06/04  at  04:59 PM

But can we send you out to evangelize the Evangelists to stop evangelizing to us? Because I would LOVE that. smile

I’m trying to figure out why Pagan/Wiccan communities are so strong against evangelism. My first thought was because we’re mostly converts from other things, we’re small and marginalized, and we’re sick of people trying to convert US. But you could say the same thing about scientologists, I think, and they tend to be heavy on the evangelism. So, really, I don’t know why we’ve got this mind-your-own-business culture. Maybe because we tend to be solitaries, anyway, without a group community to emphasize the need (and affects) of more members? Definitely, if you’re going to have a building and tithe and things, members affect the bottom line. Hmmm.

That wouldn’t, however, explain the odd streak of evangelism I’ve started to notice popping up in some atheist circles lately. Although, most of the evangelists conveniently have books for sale at your local store, so maybe there is a profit motive there. Not sure.

Comment #26: Essie Elephant  on  06/04  at  05:20 PM

Essie, part of it at least is that the initiatory pagan traditions I’m aware of (Wicca included) specifically proscribe attempting to convert others. The point is not to spread the faith, the point is to engage in practice. People have to come looking for us.

Stuff like the incident described in this post is why I’m in favor of gay marriage, and think that “grants all rights but called something else” is an insufficient solution. If it’s the same as marriage, then call it marriage, and thereby work for social acceptance along with legal rights.

Comment #27: rimrunner  on  06/04  at  06:11 PM

Essie - my favorite hobby is evangelizing the people who knock on my door Saturdays. Much fun to be had, and once word gets around the number of interrupted Saturdays drops precipitously.

So far the score is me:3 proselytes: 0 - and the Jehovah’s Witnesses apparently still won’t go by our old house in TN. Neighbors we kept in touch with have seen them crossing the street to avoid darkening the doorstep.

Comment #28: Tapetum  on  06/04  at  06:16 PM

Essie—-the empathy for the forcefully-converted is a big chunk of the deal with it, not just because of the annoying evangelists of today but because many of the religious traditions we draw from—-the pre-Christian faiths of Europe for example—-were almost completely wiped out by forceful conversion to a Christianity that tolerated no rivals.

The other big reason is that many of of the evangelical faiths’ drive for converts is based on the belief that anyone not converted will suffer some form of eternal damnation for it, or, lacking that, are otherwise wrong and misguided followers of an empty illusion that cannot provide fulfillment.  And we don’t believe that; we don’t believe anyone not Pagan is automatically hellbound, or deluded; we do not claim favored-by-God status among the world’s faiths—-to be Pagan/Wiccan is only better than to be Christian or whatnot if one is more fulfilled by Paganism than by one’s previous belief system.  We are one option among many in a beautiful, diverse world; our faith is not for everybody and does not have to be for everybody.  Many roads lead to God, and many footpaths and rivers and self-made trails besides.

Comment #29: Kyra  on  06/04  at  06:35 PM

Incidental tidbit: Gerald Gardner, founder of the Gardnerian Tradition, was heavily influenced by Freemasonry, and it is one of their policies that one must ask to join, rather than be asked or invited.  This may or may not have been the motivation for that custom in Wicca, but it does make sense: it means the group is composed entirely of people who are interested enough to seek it out on their own.

Comment #30: Kyra  on  06/04  at  06:42 PM

“Essie - my favorite hobby is evangelizing the people who knock on my door Saturdays. Much fun to be had, and once word gets around the number of interrupted Saturdays drops precipitously.”

  I start with “I am comfortable with my spiritual beliefs and I don’t wish to discuss them further” and begin to close the door.

  If thaat doesn’t work I politely (but firmly) restate the above and again move to close the door.

  If that still doesn’t work I let them know I am an atheist, pro-choice and queer AND I still don’t wish to discuss my spiritual beliefs so please leave because I would rather not shut the door in their face(s).

  If that doesn’t work I take my top off (before people get on me about this, it only got to this stage once, I was wearing a sports bra and they were both adults).

  I rarely get bothered anymore.

Comment #31: HooksInMyHead  on  06/04  at  07:10 PM

But can we send you out to evangelize the Evangelists to stop evangelizing to us? Because I would LOVE that.

Oh please no.  I’m really not good with words when I have to use my voice.  They’d say something horrid, I’d get all dysphasic and upset and it would be an awful mess.

Comment #32: kaninchen  on  06/04  at  07:27 PM

D’oh! Sorry about the screwup on the markup tags.

Dammit, Jonas, you’re supposed to apply the HTML laws, not use pathy!

You’re not Hispanic, are you?

Comment #33: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  06/04  at  07:45 PM

*EM*pathy that is.  I wasn’t aware this system also recognised square brackets.

Another joke ruined by the HTML gods.

Comment #34: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  06/04  at  07:49 PM

</i>

Hello.

Comment #35: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  06/04  at  08:03 PM

HookIsInMyHead - sounds like it would work nicely. As it happens, I love discussing theology and religion, but don’t wish to press myself on people who are uncomfortable with that kind of discussion. However, if someone is presenting themselves at the door asking to discuss their religion with me, I consider it an open invitation to actually discuss.

It’s amazing how little most proselytes like this.

For those that are willing to talk, as noted, I have a much better conversion record than they do. The JW’s stopped coming by because I converted a couple to agnosticism and they didn’t want to risk any more door-knockers on someone so depraved she could cost them faithful members.

Comment #36: Tapetum  on  06/04  at  08:20 PM

the whole Central Valley of California is wingnut central

And guess where the non-Hispanic whites who run things came from, or where their forebearers came from?

Arkansas, Texas, (like Father Avenger) Oklahoma, etc.

We have a lot of churches, and the town I grew up in and currently live in passed a resolution supporting Prop 8.

The only town in the entire state, we’ve managed to outnut every town west of the Sierras, not an easy feat.

Comment #37: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  06/04  at  09:26 PM

Goodbye?

Comment #38: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  06/04  at  09:42 PM

If the hospital administration is smart, they will offer to donate a million dollars to the lambda legal defense fund and post signs about nondiscrimination in every room. But yeah, that whole area is wacko. It’s where, years, ago, I saw my first “Oliver North for President” tee shirt.

Not entirely unconnected, it’s also part of Foreclosure Central.

Comment #39: paul  on  06/04  at  10:53 PM

You probably never noticed this, but Fresno is Wingnut Central:

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794

Comment #40: Hector B.  on  06/05  at  12:43 AM

Fresno, Clovis and Bakersfield are probably the most despised towns/cities in California. Fresno in particular is known for corruption of levels rarely heard of outside of ancient Rome, as well as rampaging bigotry. I am not in the least surprised by this incident. And I *was* surprised there was enough bigotry in the state overall for Prop H8 to pass.

As for the Wiccan non-evangelizing thing, I understand that most forms of Wicca, like most neo-pagans, don’t see their religion as the “one true path”, instead believing that there are many paths (to truth/enlightenment/spiritual fulfillment) and that every person should go with what works for them. Pressure to choose a specific path isn’t respectful to the other person; the correct thing is to give them accurate information if they ask, or are misinformed, and let them decide if they want to know more.

Comment #41: Samantha Vimes  on  06/05  at  01:16 AM

Tapetum,  with all sincerity I regret that I do not have the patience for engaging the people who come to my door to proselytize. I do not mind discussing sprituality or religion with friends or in some other situations. I recognize it is a selfish excuse but I am just greedy about my time at home and a pretty private person. I don’t even like it when people I know drop by unannounced! I am glad to know that there are people who take the time to engage door to door religious folk, the ones that are open-minded need more exposure to different opinions.

Comment #42: HooksInMyHead  on  06/05  at  12:30 PM

I think maybe this is just me being willing to be a total jerk, but I would have said, “You realize what’s happening in Fresno today, right?  You realize that she and I are a committed same-sex couple, right?  And you’re denying me the right to be with her during a medical emergency?  That’s fine, because I’m about to get on the phone and get every single news station in the area over here to cover the fact that you’re discriminating against us.  Can I get your name please?” And then I would have done it.  There was not a news channel in Fresno that day that wouldn’t have jumped all over that story.

As far as the proselytizers go, I find that handing them a copy of this (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/5599/religion/hpq/index.html) tends to make them go away right quick.

Comment #43: tiggrrl  on  06/05  at  03:21 PM

Fresno, Clovis and Bakersfield are probably the most despised towns/cities in California. Fresno in particular is known for corruption of levels rarely heard of outside of ancient Rome, as well as rampaging bigotry. I am not in the least surprised by this incident.

SV - Not going to include Merced?  That place gave me nightmares, though they did have a nice museum and small zoo.

Comment #44: helen w. h.  on  06/05  at  10:15 PM

Merced is having it’s own problems with the housing bubble:

ELLIE WOOTEN, the likable mayor of this likable Central Valley city, is on her way to the office when her cellphone rings. A constituent wants her mortgage payments reduced, and is hoping that the mayor has some clout with her lender.

Although Merced has one of the highest foreclosure rates in the country, this borrower isn’t in such dire straits. She’s not even behind on her mortgage. But her oldest daughter is turning 18, which means an end to $500 a month in child support. She just wants a better deal.

The mayor hangs up and shrugs: “It’s a surprise her daughter is turning 18? You’d think she could have planned ahead.”

But hardly anyone in Merced planned very far ahead.

Not the city, which enthusiastically approved the creation of dozens of new neighborhoods without pausing to wonder if it could absorb the growth.

Certainly not the developers. They built 4,397 new homes in those neighborhoods, some costing half a million dollars, without asking who in a city of only 80,000 could afford to buy them all.

Obviously not the speculators turned landlords, who thought that they could get San Francisco rents in a working-class agricultural city ranked by the American Lung Association as having some of the worst air in the nation.

And, sadly, not the local folk who moved up and took on more debt than they could afford. They believed — because who was telling them differently? — that the good times would be endless.

OTOT, we do have some great views, living by the foothills of the Southern Sierra Nevada does have some advantages.

Comment #45: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  06/05  at  10:53 PM

Cisco certification 642-446 exam contains various important topics. Cisco certification MB2-631 exam is also known as Cisco MB2-632 Certified Network Associate certification Exam.

Comment #46: Jhonson  on  06/11  at  04:53 AM

the intratubes ate my comment! i will explain, no i will sum up:

my cousin and his boyfriend live in Stockton, near Fresno; that is where they were “mugged” (attacked in a hate crime) and that is where Will was hospitalized. my super-hero-Nurse-Practicioner-mother called the Hospital Administrator and got things fixed with extensive quoting of law. Will and boyfriend are out of hospital, as ok as one can be at this point.
thank you INTPagan, Essie and everyone (i can’t remember who all it was) for kind words.

that entire area is a fucking BLIGHT on California.

Comment #47: denelian  on  06/11  at  06:19 AM
Page 1 of 1 pages
Commenting is not available in this channel entry.