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Next entry: Why we don’t deserve nice things: Fundies and Halloween edition Previous entry: Rush LimBLARGLE FARGLE

Cain plays the “you know how women blow everything out of proportion” card

So, after a day of floundering, Herman Cain has decided to respond to the revelations about sexual harassment complaints in the past with the "hysterical bitches" card. When outright denial isn't possible and claiming that she consented and regretted is implausible, the "you know women, always overreacting to every little thing, amirite, guys?" card is coming out. It comes with an attempt to downplay what happened, usually speaking. Anyone who reads MRA stuff regularly has seen this in action, though it's often more of the "it was just a scratch, I don't know what she was complaining about" variety. (This excuse came into play in the suicide letter of the MRA who set himself on fire at a courthouse. He minimized the fact that he punched his 4-year-old daughter in the face hard enough to bust her lip, and portrayed his ex-wife as a hysteric for taking that incident seriously and divorcing him.) This is Cain's version:

"And then I did recall one mention in the formal complaint that my general counsel shared, and that was, one day I was gesturing standing near this lady that she was as tall as my wife," he said, gesturing to his own chin. "Five feet tall. Because my wife comes up to my chin, and I was gesturing to this lady, standing next to her, almost shoulder to shoulder, saying you're about the same height as my wife. That was mentioned in the allegation, to my surprise. And so that was the only thing I could recollect that was mentioned as one of the possible things."

It's possible, of course, that's all he said to her. If so, that would be really strange. Most of the time, a one-off comment about someone's height isn't so elaborate. Elaborate discussions of height come up in the context of other kinds of talk, such as if you were trying to lure an unwilling woman into a sexual conversation about how height plays into the act of sexual intercourse, such as the sort you have with your wife. Just a guess. Until we get more details, we can't really know what was going on. I mean, Cain is a strange dude. Perhaps he roams the countryside coming up with reasons to compare people's heights to his wife. Who knows?

As for the Republican base that everyone is so anxious about, I know that this won't hurt him. Nona explained the 10-step process for getting people to side with the accused, even if they think he's guilty (see: DSK, Clarence Thomas, Roman Polanski), and this process works better on Republicans than anyone. Conservatism is about siding with the powerful over the oppressed, and that means that their natural preference is to side with men over women, unless they're trying to score political points against that man. Since Cain is their guy, there's no doubt how this is going to go. Plus, his entire image is based on this goofy notion that he's some sort of rebel against the supposed liberal establishment. Since they believe women and feminists especially control everything, someone who pisses off feminists by sexually harassing colleagues until they have to leave rather than deal with him is poised to be a hero. They won't say it out loud, but the "boys will be boys" excuse is how that belief will be communicated. 

I have one major complaint about the media coverage of this. The incident that's been dug up is being called "the accusations". This may be true in a technicality sort of way, but it really conceals what's going on here. It implies, falsely, that the women are only now coming forward about something that happened years ago, which allows conservatives to apply a Clarence Thomas framework, aka claim that they're only coming forward now because they're political operatives. In fact, the original story made it clear that the women came forward at the time, long before Cain was a politician, and that they got some kind of settlement in exchange for letting the whole thing go away. Which, considering when the incidents supposedly happened, was exponentially more than most sexually harassed women could have dreamed of. Honestly, it's more than most can dream of now, no matter what legal protections are technically in place. I'm not entirely clear on if the women involved have even been spoken to by any journalists. The Politico coverage of it refers to "multiple sources", but the only ones that are named are people who worked with the women. The women, in fact, are cited as having signed a non-disclosure agreement to protect Cain from them telling people what happened. My feeling is they probably did speak to the women---they have their names---and fleshed out some details from them, but because of the NDA, they can only report what non-involved people heard about it, as well as what was in the documents detailing their departures.

From these reports, we get a very different picture than what Cain's saying. It seems mostly that the women claimed that he came onto them in lewd and aggressive ways while they were on the road, perhaps figuring he could use away-from-the-wife-time to get some strange, but going about it in a way that was more alienating that seductive. If the allegations are true, then I'm really not surprised at all. He comes across as a creepy dude, and I have no trouble picturing him thinking he could harass someone into bed. This is a surprisingly common belief amongst creepy dudes, and probably it works occasionally, if the women they target start to believe the safest way out of the situation is to give him some sex so he'll quit bothering you. 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 08:40 AM • (65) Comments

for the Republican base that everyone is so anxious about, I know that this won’t hurt him.

Bingo.  I’m surprised his defense wasn’t “That is what women deserve.”

Comment #1: James  on  11/01  at  09:43 AM

Yeah, this happens all the time….other guy’s wives always seem to be just as tall as my nipples.

Comment #2: Radicalhw  on  11/01  at  09:44 AM

I just happen to have an advance copy of Cain’s new ad:

Smoking Man:  [takes long drag on cigarette] “Bitches are crazy.”

Fin

Comment #3: Goat  on  11/01  at  09:45 AM

  Is this really surprising? This card always gets played.

Comment #4: Lee  on  11/01  at  09:53 AM

It’s not surprising. I’m unclear why you think I thought it was, Lee. After all, right in the post, I explained how this is the most popular card after straight denials and claims that it was consenting.

Comment #5: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/01  at  09:57 AM

  Amanda, I got home very late last night from a very hard day at work so I’m not really reading at full level today. I kind of just glanced everything. Reading compression failure at my part. Sorry.

Comment #6: Lee  on  11/01  at  10:20 AM

I have one major complaint about the media coverage of this. The incident that’s been dug up is being called “the accusations”. This may be true in a technicality sort of way, but it really conceals what’s going on here.

I would imagine it has something to do with lawyers, Amanda.  You note this is “technically” true; call it anything other than an “accusation” in opublic, and Cain’s lawyers might own your ass.

Comment #7: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  11/01  at  11:04 AM

Plus, his entire image is based on this goofy notion that he’s some sort of rebel against the supposed liberal establishment.

Which image is why the “cigarette smoking” ad makes sense (e.g. it makes sense given the reactionary response to Michelle Obama wanting kids to eat vegetables): “wow! that Herman Cain has the guts to show someone smoking in an ad? I now want to vote for him, after all, he really can stick it to the liberal PC police!  He’s gonna dismantle that liberal nanny state that tells us we shouldn’t do things that are bad for us.  It’s my body, I can do what I want!  So, I’ll vote for Cain who thinks the same way”.

Comment #8: DAS  on  11/01  at  11:07 AM

“I was gesturing to this lady, standing next to her, almost shoulder to shoulder, saying you’re about the same height as my wife.”

If Cain can’t see why this would make someone at minimum deeply uncomfortable, he’s stupid.  But of course he knows why it would; that’s why he did it.

Comment #9: dopus dei  on  11/01  at  11:10 AM

I heard him speaking last night on News Hour and the interviewer said that the settlement was somewhere in the five figures.  I’m sure trade organizations make a habit of settling *completely ungrounded* complaints against their employees for $10,000+.  WTF.

Comment #10: hideandseek  on  11/01  at  11:13 AM

One thing I haven’t heard mentioned yet is the race of the victims. (Maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall it being mentioned.) While it’s true that the general conservative tendency in these cases is to side with the man over the woman unless the man is Bill Clinton, the image of Herman Cain harassing a white woman would twinge the reptilian centers of the Teabagger brain in a way that would not be true if the women were non-white. It’s the same centers that see the world collapsing when the man behind the desk in the Oval Office has darker skin than the 43 other men who sat behind the same desk.

Comment #11: jeevmon  on  11/01  at  11:23 AM

This has all been a big misunderstanding.  Cain was simply regaling some folks with his exploits in the Wife Carrying World Championship and needed a suitably sized woman so he could demonstrate his technique.

Comment #12: Goat  on  11/01  at  11:28 AM

Regardless of how this plays out, somehow it will all turn out to have been the fault of Bill Clinton / Barack Obama / Liberals / Hippies / FemiNazis / Crazy Bitches / Not-Posting-the-Ten-Commandments-in-Schoolrooms / Gay People / Islam / The-Liberal-Media.

I’d like to laugh at Cain, but the whole thing reeks of both male-privilege and classic Rovian-ratfucking.  No humor to be found in any of it…

Comment #13: MikeEss  on  11/01  at  11:30 AM

I’m having a difficult time believing that GOP primary voters who cheer electrocutions of immigrants and people dying due to a lack of health insurance are swayed by the veracity of the claims. Whether they can be prevailed upon by the electability overlords remains to be seen. I personally hope they think it’s a giant liberal conspiracy and rally the fuck behind Cain as that car goes careening off the general election cliff.

Comment #14: norbizness  on  11/01  at  11:41 AM

“I was gesturing to this lady, standing next to her, almost shoulder to shoulder, saying you’re about the same height as my wife.”

If he wasn’t getting birthday-present advice, that ain’t right. Maybe even if he was ...

“I would imagine it has something to do with lawyers, Amanda.  You note this is “technically” true; call it anything other than an “accusation” in opublic, and Cain’s lawyers might own your ass.”

Or at least present enough of a nuisance that you begin to question whether it’s worth it.

“Which image is why the “cigarette smoking” ad makes sense (e.g. it makes sense given the reactionary response to Michelle Obama wanting kids to eat vegetables): “wow! that Herman Cain has the guts to show someone smoking in an ad? I now want to vote for him, after all, he really can stick it to the liberal PC police!  He’s gonna dismantle that liberal nanny state that tells us we shouldn’t do things that are bad for us.  It’s my body, I can do what I want!  So, I’ll vote for Cain who thinks the same way”.

That’s all that smoking bit ever was. I can’t believe anyone, even an MSM talking head, even managed to pretend it was ever about anything else.

Comment #15: RickMassimo  on  11/01  at  11:43 AM

I think the analysis here about Cain and what is likely to happen with his sexual harassment suit is on target. I do take some solace in the fact that he seems to have little chance of becoming the Republican candidate, and is apparently a Sarah-Palin-esque joke candidate.

Comment #16: atheist  on  11/01  at  11:56 AM

Leaving them faceless works in their favor in that they can conjure up anything in their place, or even leave it blank so that any misogynist can fill in the face of his own “oppressor.”  Yet there’s always the question of if they were White women and he really is as skeevy as his smile on that smoking man commercial would suggest.

The victims are in a double bind.  If they come forward they are breaking their agreement.  If they don’t they are cowards. 

If one or both actually come forward it is too late.  Everyone’s focused on what they imagine to have happened.  Facts won’t make a difference, we’ve seen it over and over.

I don’t think it’s beyond belief that this could have been started by his own campaign or someone on the GOP side. 

It’s easy to love a loser who offers no threat.  It will be hard to get the racist wing to vote for him.  Instead now he’s probably knocked out of the race and everyone can say they totes would have voted for him honest.  He will be raking it in as a speaker and guest for the rest of his life over this story.  Hope he’s okay with having to use the back entrance from time to time.

Now he has a perfect story.  The plucky Black businessman who bootstraps it and doesn’t resort to “the race card” and won’t play PC/AA games, taken down by the forces of feminism and political correctness.  Yet another “high tech lynching.”  See how the Liberals are more racist than the Conservatives? goes the narrative.

That there are racist and sexist liberals out there doesn’t help, of course.

Comment #17: oldfeminist  on  11/01  at  12:07 PM

I took me a couple of readings but Cain held his hand up to his chin while giving the statement. What he did to the woman in question was some sort of gesturing he won’t explain, right?

I will bet money that he did the head-pat hover. I’m five feet and it’s something people (usually men) who apparently have never seen a short person before like to do. They comment on how tiny you are while putting their hand a few centimeters above your scalp as though measuring. It’s an “I’m not touching” move that will brush enough stray hairs to make your scalp tingle and your skin crawl while still not qualifying as physical contact.

Comment #18: scrumby  on  11/01  at  12:17 PM

Yeah, this happens all the time….other guy’s wives always seem to be just as tall as my nipples.

And they always notice what a lovely necklace you’re wearing, funny enough.

Comment #19: Triplanetary  on  11/01  at  12:44 PM

Dying to see Whoopi saying it wasn’t harassment-harassment.

Comment #20: Baruk  on  11/01  at  12:57 PM

I’m actually starting to feel a little more hopeful about the possibility of Obama getting re-elected.

Mitt Romney is going to be the GOP nominee. The base will still hate him for his Mormonism, but he’s the only one left without any huge glaring negatives - he wins the nomination by attrition. Perry, Cain, and Bachmann are all now has beens (and let’s not kid ourselves, neither Cain nor Bachmann ever had a legit chance of getting nominated), and Gingrich, Paul, Huntsman, Johnson, and Roemer are all never weres.

Comment #21: DTGslu2K  on  11/01  at  01:03 PM

Dying to see Whoopi saying it wasn’t harassment-harassment.

Well I hardly think she feels the need to defend Cain the way she felt the need to defend Polanski. She was horrifically wrong to defend Polanksi, don’t get me wrong, but it wasn’t born of some instinct to defend all men against rape/harassment charges, because Whoopi Goldberg isn’t that kind of person and she’s taken plenty of strong feminist positions in the past. Her defense of Polanski was dismaying for me.

Comment #22: Triplanetary  on  11/01  at  01:11 PM

Atheist #16:

Glad I’m not the only one who sees Cain as this year’s answer to Sarah Palin.

Comment #23: BrianX  on  11/01  at  01:19 PM

I’m thinking there had to be a little more to warrant a 5-figure settlement.  At my workplace, a mildly-creepy guy picked out the most vulnerable woman to be creepy to, rather than the assertive ones who would tell him to get his damned hands off them pronto.  He’d do ambiguous things that had her second-guessing herself as to why she felt creeped out, until I saw her flinch when he touched her.  She didn’t want to complain, didn’t want to cause trouble, didn’t want him to know who complained, wasn’t sure he even meant anything by it,  but as her supervisor I couldn’t ignore it.  I told HR, who called him in and told him to knock it off, and he couldn’t figure out who’d complained.  That made me think he’d been creepy to several people.  But he did knock it off, and that was the end of the story.  That’s what happens when it’s something that could be an innocent misunderstanding.  So something that rises to the level of someone complaining and holding out for a large settlement?  There must have been something bigger there.  And if there were two women, there are more out there that didn’t want to complain.

Comment #24: gretchen  on  11/01  at  01:28 PM

I agree, gretchen.  That’s what is most telling.  That even then there was a rush to hush it up completely, to the point the board can deny ever hearing of it, it included a NDA, it was $10K or more at a time when sexual harassment was as likely to get the woman fired if there wasn’t some real substance to her complaint, usually with a lot more than her say-so.

Comment #25: helen w. h.  on  11/01  at  01:54 PM

Cain never had a chance in hell - but this I think will stick. We’re hearing about how this reflects on his amateurish campaign because a real player would’ve gamed this out and had a press release ready the second it became public - so in this way it becomes a critique of his unpreparedness.

Now I think he’s toast in the same way Gary Hart was toast. And Elliot Spitzer. And Wiener. Really, the only white man to have survived the scarlet letter brigade is Clinton (During the ‘92 campaign - the impeachment outcome was kind of a Phyrric victory for Bill).  Clarence Thomas wouldn’t have been able to ‘play the race card’ if he were white.

That’s why it’s so funny that it’s like Limbaugh just opened the playbook and ran the same offense from 20 years ago. Limbaugh ‘playing the race card.’

I’m trying to think of a scenario where a woman could get the scarlet letter and I can only think of Nicki Haley from 2010 and it just didn’t stick.

Comment #26: KingElvis  on  11/01  at  02:08 PM

I wonder what the next version of Cain’s ever-evolving story will be.  Not to call him a flip-flopper, but if you consider his inability to stick to any one story on this issue, as well as his pro-life (sorta, kinda) stance, he begins to seem more and more like jello.

Additionally, two women?  Two settlements?  I doubt that all he did was mention a woman was as tall as his wife by gesturing at his chin level, even though that’s a pretty weird statement. 

If he truly can’t recall the 90s better than this, his memory may be too lacking for the presidency.

Comment #27: blondie  on  11/01  at  02:35 PM

KingElvis: Senator Vitter of Louisiana whethered his sex scandal rather well regardless of what you think of him as a politician. I think Matt Yglesias is right when he noted that the key to maintaining a political career after a sex scandal is simply not to resign. Thats basically what Clinton and Vitter did. The others resigned and lost their political careers.

Comment #28: Lee  on  11/01  at  02:41 PM

I’m trying to think of a scenario where a woman could get the scarlet letter and I can only think of Nicki Haley from 2010 and it just didn’t stick.

I’ve been waiting for this day too. A watershed moment.

Palin came close. Joe McGuiness accused her of adultery but then she decided not to run.  Complete coincidence of course. But the day a female politician can repeatedly cheat on her husband and yet have her base back her like Clinton’s did will be a great day for Feminism.

We are not free until we are all equally free to be scumbags.

Comment #29: Manju  on  11/01  at  02:58 PM

Not true, Piator. You could call the story the “revelations”, “documents dug up”, “incidents from the past”, or “testimony from witnesses”. By the way, in the United States, the burden of proof on a libel or slander case is on the accuser. So if you say something like, “Two women left the association to avoid Cain’s harassment,” Cain will LOSE that case if it turns out that the story is true. Which would make suing a potentially more awkward situation.

Comment #30: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/01  at  03:07 PM

Me, too, norbizness. Though it will be depressing to see this idiot still pull down 40% of the vote.

Comment #31: Amanda Marcotte  on  11/01  at  03:11 PM

Total speculation about the nature of the height thing: as a petite woman, when I’ve had some creepy dude comment about height and fucking, its usually in relation to the idea that he’d like to fuck you against a wall (because smallishness would make that easier) OR its the notion that you wouldn’t have to get on your knees to give him oral sex (just thought of another, creepy comments about how you must have been a gymnist in your youth). 10 to 1, the scenerio involved one of those concepts. Thankfully, I’ve never had to deal with a boss/supervisor/professor/etc. making just such a suggestion to me, but these types of comments to the petite in particular (who have received many many messages growing up about how cute it is to be spunky, but really you are totally still weak, or have been raised with learned helplessness, because you can’t reach high stuff), definitely reinforces the gender dynamics as well as physical limitations you have in this world by being both female and smaller than average. Sexual harassment, as studies have show, have been used against women perceived to be stepping beyond gender normative behavior (women with leadership qualities, “spunky” outspoken women, etc). Sexual harassment isn’t about sexual desire that’s gotten “out of hand” (although I’m sure that many men who harass their colleagues would like to see some “action”), but its primarily about power in the workplace.

Comment #32: Thealogian  on  11/01  at  04:02 PM

Goat @ #3:  Seeing “Smoking Man” capitalized, I can’t help but picture William B. Davis from X Files doing the ad.  It would also subtley imply the “vast conspiracy” message Cain is trying to project.

The Truth is Out There, all right.

Comment #33: Secret Agent Norman  on  11/01  at  04:12 PM

  Thealogian, those are extremely creepy comments. Although, I’m beggining to realize that a lot of comments intended to be flirty can come out as creepy regardless of who utters them. Its probably not a good idea to mention any sex acts in any initial flirtation.

Comment #34: Lee  on  11/01  at  04:27 PM

The GOP must really hate Mitt, because this was their chance to dump Cain.  If this doesn’t end Cain, what will?  And now Digby linked to a story about Mitt’s kid involved in a ponzi scheme.  Writing on the wall?

Comment #35: kma815  on  11/01  at  04:34 PM

#28 Lee

Good point. I think Wiener might have weathered his storm, but Pelosi was actually the driving force behind his ouster, not the Repubs.

Comment #36: KingElvis  on  11/01  at  04:56 PM

There has to be more to the story than Cain has admitted to. Let’s unpack this a little.

First, it’s true that different people have different ideas of boundaries. Mine repeatedly got me in trouble. I remember once, while a co-worker was out, I happened to step into his cubicle to look at something hanging on the partition. He saw me, rushed over, and chastised me for invading his space without asking permission. Another time, I commented to a cubicle neighbor who was noticeably dressed up one day that she “looked nice.” That earned me a trip to HR, because I had made her feel uncomfortable. These people’s boundaries were more tightly drawn than mine.

But these transgressions, however boorish, did not lead to five-figure payouts.

And comparing someone to one’s wife underlines that one has a wife, and presumably is not on the prowl. Similarly, if during a conversation a woman mentions she has a boyfriend, that presumably is to set or correct an expectation on the part of the guy she’s talking to.

Comment #37: Hector B.  on  11/01  at  05:00 PM

There has to be more to the story than Cain has admitted to. Let’s unpack this a little.

First, it’s true that different people have different ideas of boundaries. Mine repeatedly got me in trouble. I remember once, while a co-worker was out, I happened to step into his cubicle to look at something hanging on the partition. He saw me, rushed over, and chastised me for invading his space without asking permission. Another time, I commented to a cubicle neighbor who was noticeably dressed up that day that she “looked nice.” That earned me a trip to HR, because I had made her feel uncomfortable. These people’s boundaries were more tightly drawn than mine.

But these transgressions, however boorish, did not lead to five-figure payouts.

And comparing someone to one’s wife underlines that one has a wife, and presumably is not on the prowl. Similarly, if during a conversation a woman mentions she has a boyfriend, that presumably is to set or correct an expectation on the part of the guy she’s talking to.

Comment #38: Hector B.  on  11/01  at  05:01 PM

@Comment #32: Thealogian on 11/01 at 04:02 PM

Sexual harassment isn’t about sexual desire that’s gotten “out of hand” (although I’m sure that many men who harass their colleagues would like to see some “action”), but its primarily about power in the workplace.

Both/and. For some people, there’s no separation between sex and power relations.

Comment #39: atheist  on  11/01  at  05:12 PM

And comes the news that Cain raised $250,000 yesterday.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-presidential-primary/190963-cain-raised-250000-on-monday-amid-sexual-harassment-claims

Sexual harassment is popular with the GOP.

Comment #40: James  on  11/01  at  05:21 PM

Which image is why the “cigarette smoking” ad makes sense (e.g. it makes sense given the reactionary response to Michelle Obama wanting kids to eat vegetables): “wow! that Herman Cain has the guts to show someone smoking in an ad? I now want to vote for him, after all, he really can stick it to the liberal PC police!  He’s gonna dismantle that liberal nanny state that tells us we shouldn’t do things that are bad for us.  It’s my body, I can do what I want!  So, I’ll vote for Cain who thinks the same way”.

Honestly, someone should make a parody of this with a grown man throwing his broccoli in the trash and eating ice cream for dinner, dubbed over with a toddler’s voice yelling “No, Mommy!  You can’t tell me what to do anymore!”  At least half of conservatives wouldn’t even realize it’s a parody.

(Incidentally, I do like to eat ice cream for dinner occasionally, but it’s not some act of rebellion or defiance.)

Comment #41: bananacat  on  11/01  at  07:20 PM

“I was gesturing to this lady, standing next to her, almost shoulder to shoulder, saying you’re about the same height as my wife.”

Perhaps followed up with, “But your tits are much bigger. She doesn’t have a nice ass like yours, either.”

Comment #42: Liz212  on  11/01  at  08:48 PM

One thing I haven’t heard mentioned yet is the race of the victims. (Maybe I missed it, but I don’t recall it being mentioned.) While it’s true that the general conservative tendency in these cases is to side with the man over the woman unless the man is Bill Clinton, the image of Herman Cain harassing a white woman would twinge the reptilian centers of the Teabagger brain in a way that would not be true if the women were non-white. It’s the same centers that see the world collapsing when the man behind the desk in the Oval Office has darker skin than the 43 other men who sat behind the same desk.

Actually, racial equality crusader was on Fox today saying that people are attacking Cain because he’s a successful black conservative.  “Our blacks are better than theirs!  Yes she really said that and then went on to characterize the accusers as uptight white women from Schenectady.

Comment #43: DonnaDiva  on  11/01  at  08:54 PM

Racial equality crusader Ann Coulter, I mean.  I must have some deep seated revulsion at typing her name.

Comment #44: DonnaDiva  on  11/01  at  08:55 PM

As long as all this stuff is under NDA, let’s remember that this was *one* of the acts complained about, and that Cain’s staff had 10 days to figure out what act(s) to admit to. So if standing right next to a woman and leaning over to measure her height is the least troublesome behavior…

Comment #45: paul  on  11/01  at  09:02 PM

Cain’s using the “bitches be crazy” defense.  Not surprised.

Comment #46: Lexi  on  11/01  at  09:31 PM

He’s admitting to something lesser in the hopes of throwing people off the scent of the big secret.  There’s more to this story, a lot more.  He’s trying to claim it was so minor that he can’t remember it,  but it’s revoltingly easy to get fired just for filing a harassment claim. It’s your word against his….and Cain was a big cheese.

Comment #47: ginmar  on  11/02  at  02:35 AM

And comes the news that Cain raised $250,000 yesterday…Sexual harassment is popular with the GOP.

So James…either Clinton had difficulty raising campaign funds after Paula Jones filed her sexual harassment suit against him…or sexual harassment was popular with Democrats.

Which one is it?

Comment #48: Manju  on  11/02  at  03:46 AM

Manju, perhaps the fundraisers in 1992 had no precognition to know that Jones would file her lawsuit in 1994.

Comment #49: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  11/02  at  09:21 AM

Hector@ 37:

Another time, I commented to a cubicle neighbor who was noticeably dressed up that day that she “looked nice.” That earned me a trip to HR, because I had made her feel uncomfortable. These people’s boundaries were more tightly drawn than mine.

No. First of all, given how women are graded on their appearance in a way men aren’t, a “compliment” on a man’s appearance and a woman’s appearance are frequently two different things.  Gender matters in interpreting a remark.  Recently, I came across this feministe post, The Politics of Hello, which is an excellent illustration of how this works. 
Second, you’re asking us to view your comment to this woman in isolation, and ignore the fact that you almost surely have a history of interactions with this woman, being cubicle neighbours and all. For a woman to complain to HR about being told she looks nice? I’d put money on a history of remarks to her that were just this side of plausible deniability for being innocent. So saying that her boundaries are “more tightly drawn” than yours is playing the “you know how women blow everything out of proportion” card. That you can think of yourself as more laidback and easygoing or whatever than these other people is more likely the result of not having people treat you like you’re treating them.  More tightly drawn boundaries, my ass.

And comparing someone to one’s wife underlines that one has a wife, and presumably is not on the prowl. Similarly, if during a conversation a woman mentions she has a boyfriend, that presumably is to set or correct an expectation on the part of the guy she’s talking to.

You’re interpreting the wife comment as a defensive move against a come-on?  That *she* was hitting on *him* and that was his way of saying to her, “I’m married, you know”?  Seriously?  LOL, that’s really reaching.  Comparing someone to one’s wife in the way he did underlines that one has a wife, that he’s presumably fucking, and that as he’s talking to this woman, he’s making that mental connection. He’s thinking fuckhole, not colleaugue. 

Comment #50: rain  on  11/02  at  10:03 AM

I heard on my local news program today that the settlement was $35,000, about a year’s pay.  So obviously this was MUCH more than just comparing heights.

Comment #51: speedbudget  on  11/02  at  11:24 AM

Manju, perhaps the fundraisers in 1992 had no precognition to know that Jones would file her lawsuit in 1994.

This could only be relevant in DAfCM’s alternate history land, where Clinton was flipping burgers for a living from 1996-2000. 

 

Comment #52: Manju  on  11/02  at  04:58 PM

This could only be relevant in DAfCM’s alternate history land, where Clinton was flipping burgers for a living from 1996-2000.

Or one in which Clinton had settled a suit against him by Paula Jones in 1991 or even earlier, as is alleged to be the case with Cain and several, not just one woman.

Keep trying, Manju, you’ll get it right in 20 years or so

Comment #53: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  11/02  at  07:28 PM

Manju, Clinton raised money in 1996 DESPITE Paula Jones, not because of her. Cain saw a spike in contributions BECAUSE he was accused of sexual assault and contributors want to stick it to the politically correct police.

Comment #54: alysia  on  11/02  at  08:06 PM

Manju, Clinton raised money in 1996 DESPITE Paula Jones, not because of her.

alysia…How do you know that?

Comment #55: Manju  on  11/03  at  02:31 AM

Or one in which Clinton had settled a suit against him by Paula Jones in 1991 or even earlier,

Clinton settled in ’98. And I don’t why settling makes a difference since Cain settled his, as even you oddly point out (“as is alleged to be the case with Cain”).

Cain and several, not just one woman.

Clinton also had Kathleen Willey and Juanita Broaddrick.

Comment #56: Manju  on  11/03  at  02:41 AM

Clinton settled in ’98. And I don’t why settling makes a difference since Cain settled his, as even you oddly point out (“as is alleged to be the case with Cain”).

Cain is fundraising after denying, then admitting that there was a settlement, which wasn’t the case with Clinton.

Keep it up, Manju, you’ll get it right in 20 years or so.

Comment #57: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  11/03  at  09:38 AM

I almost forgot, Manju, we have an eyewitness account that isn’t from one of Cains’ accusers, unlike the allegations of the women you mentioned in the case of Clinton:

Interviewed today on KTOK’s Mullins in the Morning, [Chris] Wilson, of Wilson-Perkins-Allen Opinion Research headquartered in Washington, D.C. explained he was a witness to the incident. “I was the pollster at the National Restaurant Association when Herman Cain was head of it and I was around a couple of times when this happened and anyone who was involved with the NRA at the time, knew that this was gonna come up.”

Wilson described the woman as a low level staffer who was maybe two years out of college. “This occurred at a restaurant in Crystal City (Virginia) and everybody was aware of it,” he continued. “It was only a matter of time because so many people were aware of what took place, so many people were aware of her situation, the fact she left—everybody knew with the campaign that this would eventually come up.”

Comment #58: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  11/03  at  09:52 AM

Manju, read the first sentence http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-faith/post/what-herman-cains-fundraising-bonanza-says-to-women-about-sexual-harassment/2011/11/02/gIQAAOw7fM_blog.html

The spike is a direct result of the allegations because standing up to the PC police is a conservative issue.

Comment #59: alysia  on  11/03  at  05:18 PM

It’s adorable how Manju wants to re-fight the 1990s.

Comment #60: atheist  on  11/03  at  10:19 PM

The spike is a direct result of the allegations because standing up to the PC police is a conservative issue.

Ok. That doesn’t contradict anything I said. And it doesn’t help you establish how you know that “Clinton raised money in 1996 DESPITE Paula Jones, not because of her.”

After all, standing up to the VRWC was a liberal issue. My own recollection is that liberals rallied around Clinton but thats just my memory so i didn’t assert it to be true. I could be mistaken due to observer bias.

But you asserted something. So how do you know?

Comment #61: Manju  on  11/04  at  06:01 AM

And it doesn’t help you establish how you know that “Clinton raised money in 1996 DESPITE Paula Jones, not because of her.”

Because it’s a matter of history, Manju.  Use Google to falsify her observation, if you can.

Comment #62: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  11/04  at  07:29 AM

I mean, think of the lifelong advantages of having your birthday fall on the best holiday of the year

It’s not as cool as you think. Nobody cares about your birthday and candy gets old by the time you’re 10.

Happy Birthday to me. (sigh)

Comment #63: The Sasquatch  on  11/04  at  12:28 PM

Because it’s a matter of history, Manju.

Argument by assertion.

Use Google to falsify her observation, if you can

Reversal of burden of proof.

Comment #64: Manju  on  11/04  at  05:18 PM

Nope, you brought up the topic of Clinton, Manju,.

If you can demonstrate that you know something about the subject, do so.

Otherwise, you continue to embarrass yourself, not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Comment #65: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  11/04  at  07:43 PM
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