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Could be the recession, or could be that everyone learned the calorie count of the Frappuccino

Economy

I never completely understood the early morning Starbucks run, myself—-it always seemed to me faster to make your own coffee at home and drink it while getting showered and dressed.  99% of my early morning coffee runs over a lifetime are due to either to the fact that I’m moving and haven’t unpacked the coffeepot yet, that I just now discovered I’m out of coffee or creamer, or that I didn’t sleep at home.  There have been a few occasions when I overslept, ran to work, unlocked the office/flicked on the computer and then got coffee from the food stand while the computer warmed up.  But even that was rare. 

But the explanation for this carnage of Starbucks closings is that people are tightening their belts, financially speaking.

I got that graphic off FiveThirtyEight, where they’re relating it to a Harris poll (PDF) about how people are trying to save money during this recession.  19% of people have started to skip the morning coffee run.  Here’s some more statistics from the poll:

I usually think of myself as frugal.  I already had reduced to a cell phone, and I already have a habit of going to the hairdresser like 4 times a year.  I was never a huge fan of buying expensive coffee drinks in the morning, like I said, and I’m a fan of generics.  I reuse water bottles.  But I’m trying to find ways to save money, too, which has largely meant not going out to shows as much.  Which makes me feel a little antisocial to friends that I do that with a lot, which sucks, but it has redirected a lot of my energies to listening to music at home, which is a plus. And to save money there, I’m trying to buy some vinyl stuff for cheap in used record stores instead of buying everything new (though that happens, too). I’ve discovered that Amazon sells a lot of music for download cheaper than iTunes. Having friends over to make cheap vodka drinks instead of meeting them in a bar has happened a few times. We’re trying to avoid going to see movies in the theater just to do it, and staying in to watch DVDs from Netflix more often. But mostly I’m trying to find cheaper ways to eat.  I’m trying to find ways to use canned tomatoes instead of fresh ones for a lot of stuff, and eating more mac and cheese.  Trying to buy the cheap vegetables and then figure out what to cook with them, instead of just making a list based around what I’m in the mood for.

I kind of like being an innovator in the “cheap bastard” department.  I sold my truck after spending $50 to fill it up and then, after alarming everyone in the area by shaking a turnip at the sky and saying, “Never again!” I have an entire cabinet to stash shampoo, conditioner, and body wash that I buy up when it’s deeply discounted so that it can last me for months.  A lot of my clothes are secondhand.  But what this means is that I can’t think of interesting new ways to avoid spending money. 

So I ask you, Pandagonians, to help me out.  Do you have ways you save money?  Just learned, always have done it, I don’t care.  The weirder, the better.  And do you think that people who are reacting to the recession by tightening their belt are being wise, or is this just a panic reaction?  Do you give a flying fuck if Starbucks closes? 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 06:00 PM • (184) Comments

I care that Starbucks closes only in as much as they employ a whole lot of my friends, this being Seattle and all.  But the in-laws got us an espresso machine for Xmas this year, and I swear that thing made back it’s cost in the first month. 

As for saving money, free ebooks from the various publishers that do that, mostly SF/F like Baen and Tor.  Plus I can read them on my phone.  Save money, a tree and not elbow your fellow commuters on the bus while turning pages.

Comment #1: GeekGirlsRule  on  07/02  at  06:47 PM

And that should be the espresso machine “saved it’s cost” in the first month, not made it back.  Obviously, I have not had enough coffee today.

Comment #2: GeekGirlsRule  on  07/02  at  06:50 PM

I’ve been going to the library.  Also bringing my lunch to work.  I buy canned soup when it’s on sale (Amy’s or Wolfgang Puck or other organic varieties that tend to be hearty and feel like a meal) I keep them at work so there is no excuse of forgetting them.  Also, I’ve cut my beer consumption a lot and am steadily making progress toward going to restaurants less.  Oh, and I cut netflix in favor of hulu (but I’m not sure how long that’s going to last).

Comment #3: jackieg  on  07/02  at  06:54 PM

Oh, and I stopped taking the bus.  $6/day on bus fare was unreasonable when it costs about $1.75 in gas to get me to and from work.  If I arrive early I can find free parking.

Comment #4: jackieg  on  07/02  at  06:55 PM

When brown bagging a lunch, not involving brown bags or plastic sandwich bags.  Everything goes in tupperware, and then the tuppers all go in my tote bag. 

Trying to read all the damn books in my house before buying any new ones.  Not that this stops me from acquiring books, cause I come home with an armful of other people’s discards like once a week.  But I spend almost no money on books. 

If you live in an apartment building, split wireless internet with your neighbor(s), rather than each getting their own internet.

Dumpster diving/trash picking.  I have only one piece of furniture that cost more than $25.  And I have nice furniture, made of actual wood and stuff.

Comment #5: rowmyboat  on  07/02  at  06:56 PM

Cargo bike instead of car!

www.xtracycle.com

Oh man I love mine.

Comment #6: Punditus Maximus  on  07/02  at  06:58 PM

If you live in a college town, graduation day is the time to get in a truck and search for furniture.  I’m sure freecycle, craigslist and the rest are good, but I rely on the left at the curb principle.

I have largely given up on soda and now brew my own tea for my caffeine fix.  I never liked coffee, which has saved me considerable money over the years.  But I was a Big Gulp addict many pounds ago.  I’m currently relapsing at work, but I’m getting better.  If I ever started brewing my own beer, I’d probably not save much money since I generally drink socially and am not much of a host.  But then again, I could probably host more if I made great beer.

I wear clothes until someone asks me to throw them out, I cut my own hair, and I already get to the library a lot since I work there.  But my next two big projects are my backyard strawbale shed, which I intend to be electricity free and allow me to hang out and do things other than waste time on the internet and watching shows on my computer, and a conversion of my beater postal jeep into a plug-in electric vehicle.  Will those save me money?  Not in the short term, but if I can simplify in my transportation and in my hanging out time, I’ll probably spend less money and read all those books and get creative again.

Comment #7: 3letterjon  on  07/02  at  07:11 PM

I went to the barber (a tiny hole in the wall good old boys place; I’m pretty sure I was the first woman to set foot in there in many a month) one last time to have all my hair buzzed off to a no.4 clip. Once I was sure I liked it, I ordered a set of clippers and I’ve already saved the amount it cost by trimming my own hair every 2 weeks in my bathroom.

Naturally, this would also save money on “styling products,” except that I haven’t used any “styling products” for over 5 years as it is, and I wash my hair with the same handmade soap I use for the rest of my body.

Comment #8: kristin  on  07/02  at  07:11 PM

I like Starbucks.  Good local coffee shops are actually MORE expensive, and I think Chicago actually has more Starbucks shops than hometown Seattle does. 

Of course, now that I tend to tow 3 kids with me, going to Starbucks is a $20+ ordeal of my vanilla latte or green tea latte, boxes of chocolate organic milk, and three of the following options: madeleines, chocolate madeleines, donuts, double chocolate brownies, mini vanilla scones, or seasonal cookies.

Even before The Great Belt Tightening, I had seriously curtailed my Starbucking.  It’s a single person/adult/Mommy and Infant type thing.

Our big savings this coming school year?  SCHOOL BUS!!!!  They go to a magnet school almost 6 miles away.  Last year, the girl went to half day preschool, so we took the boy, took the girl, picked them both up.  3 round trips daily each leg ~20 mins.

This year, she’s in full day kindergarten and eligible for the bus!  We’re gonna walk a block and a half to the neighborhood school, put them on the bus, have THE WHOLE MIDDLE DAY FREE, then pick them up and walk home.

36 miles a day.  180 miles a week.  NO LONGER GOING ON MY CAR.  That’s a bit of happiness right there.

Comment #9: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  07/02  at  07:12 PM

Starbucks doesn’t make coffee.  It makes milkshakes.  I make a better cup of coffee at home than the crap they have in their thermos.  Even their own beans taste better when I brew at home.

Comment #10: Todd  on  07/02  at  07:13 PM

I always find these discussions interesting, and love to hear other people’s survival strategies.

Here’s some things I do to make ends meet as a student:

-I make DIY laundry soap - google it - works better than most stuff you can buy.
-I do household Cleaning with mostly vinegar, baking soda or bleach.
-I bike when I can - saves me the transit fare, which adds up. I use some of the money I save doing this buying bike gear which makes biking easier, which makes me do it more.
-If you enjoy this sort of thing, you can make your own soy milk (it’s so much work it’s not really worth it, though, to me, but you may like it)
-My partner and I have started trying homebrewing - which I wouldn’t really suggest getting into because it’s cheap (although it is cheap in the long run, if you like better than bottom-of-the-barrel beer) but I suggest it because it’s fun, you learn a lot, and it’s surprisingly easy. Right now we’ve got some delicious oatmeal stout in the storage room. It definitely hasn’t stopped us buying snooty beer (if anything brewing makes you want to try a bigger variety), but you do end up with a big quantity of pretty good beer really cheap if you do everything right.
-I bring a thermos of coffee to work, since my usual “buy a coffee” time isn’t first thing, it’s late morning. A good thermos stays hot till then, and then I’m not tempted to buy fancy coffee things.
-People in my circle of friends are really into clothing swap parties, of late. I think it works better for women, usually, because dudes tend to not show up to these things and thus you don’t have much to choose from if you’re a dude who shows up to these things.
-One of my friends recently hosted a “pub night” at his house where people bought drinks and food, he played bartender, and the money went to a worthy cause. It was cool because the prices were way lower than going out, the money went somewhere cool, and AFAIK, the food paid for itself.

My one piece of advice that I have that is actually directed at you, Amanda, is to keep your eye out for free shows and festivals, since it seems like live music is a big part of your life, and I know it’s one luxury I wish I could afford more often, too. But at least in my town, there’s a couple great festivals that are free, and in the summer the city often puts on free lunchtime shows downtown, too. Definitely not all my favourite local acts play these sorts of shows, but some of them actually do, and it’s sometimes cool to see them in that kind of context rather than in a crowded bar.

Comment #11: HonestB  on  07/02  at  07:13 PM

Save money?  STOP DOING THAT UNLESS YOU HAVE TO.

Spend, splurge, indulge yourself, invest in things you believe in.  If consumer spending went up only 3-4% the recession would be declared over.

It’s hot fudge sundaes v. misery for the proletariat.  Is there a choice?

Comment #12: Magis  on  07/02  at  07:14 PM

It would be declared over, but only because it would save the portfolios of the rich.  People have a right to protect themselves.

Comment #13: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/02  at  07:20 PM

I have an entire cabinet to stash shampoo, conditioner, and body wash that I buy up when it’s deeply discounted so that it can last me for months.

Same here. I could open a small branch of Bath & Body Works in my linen cupboard.

I used to save a lot of money on drinks in art school by going out to gallery openings and etc. but those days are gone. (I wish I could have a perpetual student discount - I never got to use the student discount much when I WAS a student since I was damn poor then.) I tend to limit my drinking to at home now. Unless I’m having them bought by much more social BF but even so I usually can’t do more than one beer. (WINE on the other hand)

There’s a theatre in town (https://www.acttheatre.org/TicketsPlays/NewBasicMembership.aspx) that’s doing a subscription/membership based ticketing system so you can see different shows whenever you want, etc. bring a friend they get 1/2 price w/ you. Very interesting. I think that more theatres could do that and I would go more. I am seriously thinking about getting that.

Netflix really good way to save money and if you’re lazy/perpetually tardy like me it’s a good thing. I just found out there’s more UK television shows on Netflix now so that’s good.

Knitting is not a good way to save money - on your raw materials. That is, if you perfer a material other than acrylic or cotton.

Comment #14: Danica Lefse Queen  on  07/02  at  07:22 PM

Definitely, if you have the ability to do so, brewing your own coffee, regardless of bean price, will save bundles over regularly buying coffee out.

A 12 oz bag of french roast organic beans costs $6 at Fresh and Easy. A bag that size makes many many many cups of coffee.

We signed up for a program with our electric company. They installed a new thermostat, one they can access remotely. Whenever there is a triggering event (temps very high, dangerously high usage levels city-wide), they can take over the thermostat remotely and raise the threshold setting. I believe we get a small $ kick from them for being in the program, in addition to slightly lowered electric bills for having the thermostat moved to a much higher setting during the day (although I have been home with it at 80, which with the desert’s exceedingly low humidity is not uncomfortable).

And something that helps out monthly, although may not be an actual money saver, is that we participate in the electric company’s and the gas company’s level pay plans. They look at a year’s worth of usage and divide by 12. Keeps us from getting slammed by a high electrical bill in a super hot month, or by a high gas bill in the winter.

Comment #15: teac  on  07/02  at  07:25 PM

Do you have ways you save money?  Just learned, always have done it, I don’t care.

Nothing particularly weird—except for the indulgence of purchasing lunch most of the time, I’ve been doing most of the stuff on that list for years. Some of them are probably more difficult to cut back on if you’re a woman (hairdressing), work in traditional corporate (dry cleaning), or live in the exurbs (mass transit), but most of the others are relatively easy and pain-free.

I just recently cancelled the landline, and use a prepaid SIM card on my old mobile for personal calls (I use a long distance calling card, as well, since prepaid’s long distance rates are ridiculous). Most people have my Google Voice (formerly Grandcentral) number anyhow, so the switch was easy. I also use Skype.

I share my Internet via Wifi with a neighbour. With a good enough plan, there’s plenty of bandwidth to share each month at a fraction the price.

I also use the library a lot, but that was more of a cold-turkey reaction years ago to a book addiction that was getting out of control. I limit my purchases to the very narrow genre and topic areas that I collect, but otherwise get stuff via our excellent library system or free e-books.

My basic attitude is: save on the easy stuff and indulge in the stuff that makes you truly happy. Actually giving it some thought makes most people realise that there’s a heck of a lot in the first category, and not too much in the second.

And do you think that people who are reacting to the recession by tightening their belt are being wise, or is this just a panic reaction?

A bit of both if they just started in the last year or so.

Do you give a flying fuck if Starbucks closes?

Well, it’s really awful having to walk a whole extra two blocks to find one nowadays.

Comment #16: Gracchus.  on  07/02  at  07:26 PM

This sounds pretty obvious but staying out of stores saves me a lot of money in impulse purchases. I’ve never been one to shop for fun but a trip to Target to pick up my prescriptions always cost me extra cash because of impulse buys.  So I started getting prescriptions filled through the mail or by using the drugstore’s drive-through.  I pay for gas at the pump.  I go grocery shopping only when I absolutely need to - like every couple of weeks.  I go for a walk outside or stay in my office during lunch breaks.  I use the local library a lot and can walk there during my lunch hour.  I love to garden so nurseries and garden shops are extremely dangerous for my wallet.  My partner and I have started swapping divided plants with friends who are also gardeners.  Free plants and lots of exercise digging and planting!  We’re pretty excited about our new raspberry bushes.

Comment #17: BadKitty  on  07/02  at  07:30 PM

It would be declared over, but only because it would save the portfolios of the rich

It also protects the jobs of the people who work in Starbucks, etc., etc., etc.

If I might continue my “anti” meme….

Believe in a green world?  Buy something green!  Have you bought your curly-cue light bulbs yet?
How about a blanket for your water heater; you get the idea.

Wanna help a democrat?  Look on the Union sites and buy something made in America or Canada.  If you don’t feel secure in your job, of course you should protect yourself.  But Keynes will tell you the greatest extender of economic woes is irrational savings.  Get that sundae today!

Comment #18: Magis  on  07/02  at  07:33 PM

There’s a theatre in town (https://www.acttheatre.org/TicketsPlays/NewBasicMembership.aspx) that’s doing a subscription/membership based ticketing system so you can see different shows whenever you want, etc. bring a friend they get 1/2 price w/ you. Very interesting. I think that more theatres could do that and I would go more. I am seriously thinking about getting that.

Or for that matter, try some of the smaller theatres in town if you want live performances; a lot of them are competitive with movies…I noted that a lot of the folks who used to go to the Equity stages are now finding their theatre fixes with smaller theatres (and they’re scratching that “adventuresome” itch…)

Comment #19: gwangung  on  07/02  at  07:34 PM

I rather liked it.  Once you got downtown or wherever, treating oneself to a reward for getting there early… Certainly not a cost saver, but it usually did prevent being late to work.  I’d do things like bring packets of oatmeal to eat in the office kitchen or grab a fresh bagel (oh how I miss those fresh bagels) from the coffee shop at street level…

Comment #20: Crissa  on  07/02  at  07:37 PM

Save money?  STOP DOING THAT UNLESS YOU HAVE TO.

Have to.

Don’t want to.

We miss going out like we used to. Although we did splurge on a AAA baseball game Tuesday night. That was fun.

Comment #21: teac  on  07/02  at  07:41 PM

To feed my music habit:  emusic.com .  They’ve just raised their rates considerably, but still about half the price of Amazon or iTunes—and they’re more likely to have the moderately-obscure stuff I’m looking for.

Beverages:  teas and tisanes, mostly, instead of coffee, and brewed via the electric kettle in my office.

Comment #22: ookpik  on  07/02  at  07:42 PM

Fine, Magis, but people need to be more mindful of where they do spend money.  Minor purchases upholding crappy industries that don’t employ enough people can be a place to pinch if you’re inclined, as I am (economy scary for freelancing couple!), and you can spend money on industries that may have more a future for their employees.

Comment #23: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/02  at  07:42 PM

Cheaper ways to eat . . . . I don’t know if that’s the best idea. Cheap food might not be the most nutritious, and sacrificing nutrition to save a few bucks probably costs more in the long run. It seems like you’re saving a lot of money in other areas. Maybe you can spend more on food and still put some money in the savings account.

Comment #24: Emily  on  07/02  at  07:43 PM

Hm.

Well, for reasons that I don’t entirely attribute to the economy (though that’s in there as an indirect reason, I suppose), I’m on the rebound side of being the poorest I’ve ever been, so there have been a lot of things I’ve done…but they’re all pretty generic, like the brands I buy.

I honestly wasn’t a huge spender before things got sucky, so I wasn’t one who had to “readjust.”  There have been far fewer nights in bars, to be sure.  When I do spend money, I tend to buy the best, so there are purchases that have simply been pushed down the to-do list for a time when things are better.

Oh, and I hate to say it, but the music spending has gone WAY down, and that hurts me.  Doing a lot more of the “listen to it on YouTube and file it away in an ongoing e-mail I keep resending myself,” so that I can remember what to go looking for in a couple of months.

The upside is that my day job (that I recently went back to, after a foray into a different career for a minute, the cause of the financial ruin) is in sales, the kind where you prospect your own customers (with a really good product), and you honestly get back what you put into it.

So basically, wish me luck, I guess?

Comment #25: Evan Hurst  on  07/02  at  07:45 PM

Forget buying shampoo and conditioner on sale—it’s far cheaper to buy them from local beauty supply stores.

I buy by the gallon when they’re on sale there (there’s always a wide selection of type and scents/non-scents), so that gallon is $6, or less.

Which comes out to $6 (or less) for six months to a year worth of haircare.

Beauty supply stores can also be a wonderfully inexpensive place to buy cosmetics, hair coloring, emery boards and so on and so forth.

Also: in California, the 99 Cent Only stores carry fresh produce (everything $1), whatever is oversupplied at the local wholesale market, I would imagine. (Even some organics!) This week: pints of blueberries, bags of nectarines, apples, kiwi, spinach, cabbage shredded for coleslaw, pints of organic cherry tomatoes, bags of celery, etc.

No matter the supermarket sales, the 99 Cent Only store produce is cheaper, and they have a wide range of other foodstuffs (some well-known brands, too) including brandname hotdogs, a pound of frozen ground chicken, 1/2 pound Danish butter, frozen vegetables, etc.

I now hit the 99 Cent Only store first, then maybe Trader Joe’s (although the 99 Cent produce can be fresher) or Whole Foods and, very rarely, a grocery store.

Comment #26: judybrowni  on  07/02  at  07:45 PM

I moved from Chicago to Saint Louis in the summer of 2005. I left behind a city and metro area that had multiple coffee chains (Starbucks, Caribou, Panera, Dunkin Donuts, Krispy Kreme) along with plenty of local venues (Intelligentsia, Metropolis, etc.). At the time of my arrival in STL, Dunkin Donuts had pulled out long ago, Krispy Kreme had a small presence, and only Panera—still called by its old name here—had any significant chain presence. Lots of smaller coffee shops abounded.

Around 2006 or 2007, Starbucks targeted Saint Louis as one of its major expansion areas. The chain hit STL with a vengeance, rapidly opening up venues in strip malls, in shopping malls, and in dedicated free-standing buildings (most of which had drive-thrus). When I lived in one of the central Saint Louis County suburbs, I made a search of all the SBUX available in ZIP code 63119; at the height of its expansion, I could count ten locations for Starbucks within a three-mile radius. Sure, some of the Starbucks were franchised, while others were licensed, such as the Barnes & Noble cafes. Still, if you were looking to get a venti something-or-other, you could do so from any of those outlets.

The Starbucks troubles not only came from the slowing economy and consumer belt-tightening, but in the case of Saint Louis, from illogical over-expansion. Lots of capital were sunk into the free-standing SBUX that now are closed, sitting empty, and most likely awaiting destruction. As the free-standing buildings were purpose-built, I am not sure how they can be successfully reused, or what businesses would want to take up such a repurposing task. Nothing’s impossible, of course, but unless the new business serves a similar purpose as the building’s last tenant, I don’t know how well it could really make use of its surroundings…which, ultimately, is the biggest crime of all: throwing up a building that has such a limited use.

Comment #27: stannate  on  07/02  at  07:46 PM

Amanda:

True, but we should boycott crappy industries (and reactionary ones) in good times or bad.  Freelancing is scary.  I used to work on straight commissions.  How ‘bout this for my suggestions to spend.  GIVE TO PANDAGON TODAY YOU CHEAPSKATES!  You’ve been talking about cheap entertainment.  Heck, Pandagon is ‘free’ entertainment but we all know there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.  smile

My real point is don’t quit spending just to be doing it.  The rich have their claws on the system.  Often the only way to hurt one rich person a little is to hurt ten poor people a lot.

Comment #28: Magis  on  07/02  at  07:50 PM

Cheaper food, I’d assert, can actually be better food.

Beans, lentils, barley, rice—and less bread, that’s huge right there.

I know the zombie produce at the Food 4 Less isn’t half as healthy as the stuff at Whole Foods (heard Whole Paycheck joke—didn’t like it, but worth mentioning here). Still, there are lots of healthy options there that are better than the heavy reliance on packaged, pre- or semi-prepared foodstuffs so many of us rely on.

Cheap food can mean Doritos and Stouffers and McDonalds.

Cheaper than that? Beans and rice with every meal.

Comment #29: humanadverb  on  07/02  at  07:52 PM

I work at the library, so that’s a problem that solves itself.  Unlike working at McDonald’s, which put me off of burgers for a very long time, my book addiction is by no means diminished.

My big solution:  Free software.  My home computer runs on Ubuntu Linux, with all of the included related goodies (Firefox for browsing, GIMP for graphics, VLC for video), I haven’t needed to buy new software in years but my system is still up to date and as secure as any computer can be these days.

Comment #30: damnedyankee  on  07/02  at  08:07 PM

I rarely pay full price for anything.  I buy clothes off-season for ridiculously cheap prices.  I can often find clothes up to 80% off.  I buy generic for most food, and it usually tastes as good or better than name brands.  A lot of people think that name-brands are better because you pay more for them and the company puts that money towards making a better product.  This isn’t necessarily true, because so much of their profit actually goes to advertising.  In many, many cases, the generic brand actually tastes better.  In a lot of cases, the generic brand is exactly the same as the name brand and literally made at the same plant.  In the case of dairy, I prefer generic because it’s more likely to be made locally.

I’m also extremely practical, and I save money that way.  My car has some scratches but they don’t affect the function of the car so I won’t pay to get them fixed.  I will never pay more than $30 for a purse.  I rarely pay more than $50 for shoes, and I usually pay less than $20.  The way I see it, the $150 shoes might be somewhat better than my $15 shoes, but they’re not 10 times as good.  My TV is over 10 years old but it works fine and I have no desire to buy a new high-definition TV.  I think that most retail jewelry is pretty much useless and a waste of money.  I make nearly twice as much as I spend each month, and I’d much rather save it than spend it to show off how much I make.  I spend according to what I need, and not how much I have available.

I also use credit as a last resort only.  I have a credit card and I use it to get a better credit score and to get rebates.  I have never paid a penny of interest because I pay of the balance of every month.  It’s my personal policy to save up for something before I buy it.  I will use credit only for emergencies and eventually for a mortgage.  Even in those cases, I’ll do my best to minimize it.

Comment #31: bananacat  on  07/02  at  08:13 PM

i’ve never been what one might call frugal, but i’m trying to pay more attention to where i spend money these days and have developed a laundry list of ways to both cut my spending and support more things i care about keeping in business. 

i buy the bottled frappuccinos at the grocery store.  i would prefer a latte, but these are tons cheaper and they are satisfying (and i don’t have to make my own coffee or buy an espresso machine).

i try to buy more clothing used (but thrifting takes up my limited free time, so i’m still not as good as this as i’d like to be) but the new clothing/shoes/accessories i do buy i try to buy from local boutiques, especially those that feature local designers and craftspeople.

this is kind of small, but i started only using atms from my bank to avoid atm fees.  there are chase banks all over here now and it seems silly to drop anywhere from $1.50 to $4.00 on fees for convenience when using an atm of my bank is super easy.  i either only use chase atms or get cash back at the grocery store where i won’t be charged for it.

i too bring my lunch almost every day (i allow one lunch out a week, that i pay for anyway, just for variety) and i have those reusable gladware things and just rinse them out. 

i also recently moved into an apartment that has private trash service, so there is no city recycling pickup.  this is a HUGE bummer for me, as my roommate and i always have way more recycling than we have actual trash, but there’s a recycling center close to us, so we just take it on weekends and pocket the small amount of cash from that. 

i do my own nails; i haven’t had a manicure in six months. i know this is frivolous, but i’m always tempted to get a manicure when i’m too lazy to paint my nails myself.  the result is less wasted money, i have good looking nails more often (as the polish chips faster without the topcoats they use so i have to touch up more often), and i’m getting to be quite precise.

no more bottled water.  at least, almost never! 

that’s all i can think of at the moment, other than scouring the web for free shows and events, drinking at home or happy hour instead of prime-time bar hours, downloading music/movies or renting vs going out, and reading all the books i have before i buy anymore.

Comment #32: chareth cutestory  on  07/02  at  08:13 PM

Grow your own tomatoes. Get heirloom varieties, save the seeds and grow them next year for free.

We make muffins from scratch. I know what’s going in them and can add fruit or whole grains as I like.

Check the clearance aisle and the expiring meat section of the store. I’ve gotten steaks for $2 and whole-wheat spaghetti at 59c/lb

Adjust your comfort levels. Get ceiling fans. Insulate and weather strip.

Cut out the soda and junk food. A bag of apples is $2.50. we get 2 apples each out of it. A bag of chips is $2 and it goes around once. I used to make my own chocolate syrup. Now we skip it entirely.

The Tightwad gazette http://www.tightwad.com/ gets a little radical, but Amy Dacyzyn’s books are pretty good.

Comment #33: Angelia Sparrow  on  07/02  at  08:16 PM

I think that if you have lost your job, or had your income cut for whatever reason (less work, no o/t ect) then tightneng your belt is good.  But if you have not experienced any of those things then tighenting your belt is counter-productive because when the American consumer isn’t spending then companies make less and there are more and more layoffs.  It’s a vicious cycle.

I have my own PR business and I have been doing just fine.  It’s possible I could still be hit, but until that happens (or hopefully doesn’t!) I spend accordingly. 

However one thing I will say is that if I started having my income restricted I would definitely cut out Starbucks.  In fact, it’d be the first thing to go.

Comment #34: Lady Vader  on  07/02  at  08:19 PM

Library for DVDs of recent releases
Mining programming offered ONDemand (get a bunch of extra programming free with 1 pay subscription)
Off-peak travel on public transportation - trains are 30-40% less, park&ride;at station is free
Free events in local towns - music in the park, etc
Using coupons at the grocery store
Farmers market for fresh produce

Comment #35: CParis  on  07/02  at  08:26 PM

Ditto on the homebrewing… it’s fun, and although the equipment is an upfront investment, it will pay off in the long run (assuming you drink beer much…)  Austin has a good brewing supply store, too.

Ditto also on cutting out bottled water.

As for growing your own veggies, if you do have a green thumb, grow from seed if possible.  You’ll save a great deal more money than if you grow from started seedlings.  Well established seedlings, especially if you’re going organic, can raise the cost of gardening to the point that you may not actually save anything.

Comment #36: jamie d  on  07/02  at  08:33 PM

On the plus side, it’s great to see that more people are planning to use a re-usable bottle and fill it with water from home.  We certainly need to have fewer plastic bottles going to landfills.

Comment #37: bananacat  on  07/02  at  08:34 PM

Speaking of canned tomatoes, I like to make a soup of tomatoes, black beans and celery (or whatever).  Cook the beans, saute the celery in garlic and oil, cut up the tomatoes, then pour everything (including the juice from the can) together and heat it for a bit.  I think I usually thicken it with flour.

Comment #38: Tree  on  07/02  at  08:38 PM

Soup is ridiculously easy and cheap to make.  Lentil soup is nearly impossible to mess up- with meat, without meat, doesn’t matter.  Learn to love sandwiches that you make at home.  Oh- apple tarts are dirt cheap to make, but feel expensive to eat.

Tea is cheaper than coffee if you really want to save money.  Eating breakfast for dinner will usually save money, since breakfast foods tend to be cheap.

I think the best way to save money- go on one of those self imposed buying blackouts.  A month, 6 months, a year, whatever.  Don’t buy anything new except food, and honest needs.

Stay home and read, write, draw, paint, practice a musical instrument.  Whatever, so long as you own the stuff already, and don’t spend any more to do it.

Comment #39: drachonfire  on  07/02  at  08:42 PM

That survey chart had a few surprises for me. I was shocked to see that only 11% of respondents had dumped their land-line phones. My mobile has been my only phone for years, now. I don’t see the point in paying for an extra phone line that I’d literally never use. Might as well just set some cash on fire.

In December, I quit drinking soda and eating fast food (which I define as “any place that normally or always has a drive-through window”). It had more to do with slowly coming to the conclusion that those things are both bad tasting and bad for you, but I also find that I get better bang for the buck by eating at proper restaurants and drinking juice, tea, or water. I feel a whole lot better, too, and I think I’ve even lost a bit of weight just from cutting those ridiculous amounts of fat and sugar out of my diet. I’m not a coffee drinker (and it’s easier to find the Holy Grail than a coffee shop with a worthwhile tea selection), so — for myself, anyway — I really couldn’t care less what happens to Starbucks. I don’t think I’ve even been inside one more than a half dozen times in my entire life.

Now, if my tea shop closed, I’d freak right the fuck out.

Comment #40: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  07/02  at  08:49 PM

Y’all, I think the frugality tips are great, but please let’s not turn this into one of those frugaler-than-thou discussions where the implication is that any fool could save gazillions by just getting off their asses and being as clever as we are instead of stupidly spending money on [whatever].

Starbucks et al are a nice, inexpensive outing, cheaper than lunch or dinner. “Meet me for coffee” means a couple of hours chatting with a friend out of our houses and it costs less than $5. Most coffeehouses here also have free Wi-Fi, too.

And I don’t have much success drinking coffee in the shower…..

Comment #41: mythago  on  07/02  at  08:49 PM

Ditto on eating out of a can at lunch, home brewed tea (7 cents a cup!) and the head-shaving.  Growing it long and not styling it also saves money.

Unless you sweat for a living, bathing is optional.  I haven’t bought a bar of soap in years:  I just use my shampoo runoff.  Home spa treatments are the best, try this: Coarse sea salt and coconut oil from the grocery store. Works on everything.

You only need to add soap to the washing machine or dishwasher every other load.

When I run out of my last tube of toothpaste I’m switching to baking soda. I bought dental cleaning implements at my local drug store so I need to go to the dentist only half as often. 

I see some major inflation coming down the pike by 2010, and I think everyone who has the space and the money should probably stock up on things they use or eat regularly.  I built my own pantry and now buy food by the case (buy by the case w/free shipping at Amazon, or 10% off a case of anything at Whole Foods).  Buying beans and rice in bulk.  I have plastic tubs full of them.

I saved a ton of money on car air filters by buying a case of them online from an auto parts store.  Half of retail plus the box (of 12) will probably last as long as I have my car.

Before buying something I really need, I see if Goodwill or the Salvation Army has it before visiting a store.  There’s something almost magical about those places.

I stopped buying “clothes.”  I go on pajama patrol instead: The t-shirts, sleepshirts, shorts and pants in the pj sections of stores are much cheaper than regular clothes.  I just buy dark/neutral colors.  I even wear them to the office and nobody notices.  Also, if you’re a woman shop in the boys section.

Comment #42: The Hedonistic Pleasureseeker  on  07/02  at  08:59 PM

As Danica said way upthread, knitting isn’t exactly a cheap hobby, but I have so much yarn stashed away that I can whip out a scarf or baby sweater quickly and for no cash outlay, and people are always thrilled with a handmade gift.  I sure wish I could find a group of knitters who’d like to do a yarn swap… all the fun of shopping without the pain of spending more money.

I go to the Goodwill first when I need retail therapy.  I can usually find a decorative bowl, handbag, or book for very little money that satisfies that urge to buy something, and when I’m tired of it, I donate it back.

I joined a Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) program this summer and split the cost with a friend.  It costs quite a bit up front, but the produce is all local, organic, and that-day fresh, I’m supporting a local business, and I sometimes have more than I need (which I donate to the food bank or give to other friends).  Plus, there’s usually something in that week’s haul that I’ve never tried before, so I’m trying new recipes (anyone have one for kohlrabe?).

Comment #43: NobleExperiments  on  07/02  at  09:01 PM

When I run out of my last tube of toothpaste I’m switching to baking soda

No, don’t do this.  Please.  It will cost you a fortune in dental work plus extreme discomfort.  Baking soda is too abrasive for your gums and you will wind up with serious gum retreat, which can only be corrected with a graft.  Seriously, real toothpaste isn’t all that expensive anyway.  Just use toothpaste.

Comment #44: keshmeshi  on  07/02  at  09:01 PM

And do you think that people who are reacting to the recession by tightening their belt are being wise, or is this just a panic reaction?

I think it is always wise to cut down and save regardless of how your current balance sheet is doing. I regularly revisit every recurring expense I have and ask myself, “how could I save money on this?”

One thing that consistently has a measurable effect on how much money I have in my pocket at the end of the month always comes from bringing my lunch to work.  In fact, most expenses you face during work are too much money. I have to pay for coffee at my office (50 cents a cup!), so instead I have my own coffeemaker in my office. The vending machine will rip you off, so I have a large jar of peanuts that I keep for snacks.

Recently, I’ve moved closer to my friends, which saves on gas because I’m not driving as far (or at all) back and forth to see them on the weekends. “Live where you play” (or “play where you live”) keeps your quality of life up while saving money on gas.

Also, it’s pretty impressive how large a DVD collection that the library has. This can easily replace Netflix or your local video store (depending on how well-stocked and how streamlined the reservation system is at your local library). This, however, is not something I do myself.

I’ve found another big savings by switching to shaving with a safety razor, which uses generic double-edged razor blades you can find anywhere and sell for cheap.

As far as utilities expenses, I definitely found a drop in my electricity bill when I took care to turn off the master power strip on all my electronics that went into “sleep mode” when you turned them “off.”

Comment #45: Tyro  on  07/02  at  09:04 PM

I switched to a pay-as-you-go phone three months ago.  Since I prefer email and Facebook anyway, I pay $9 a month for my phone.  I’d pay less if AT&T;would let me, but I have to refill at least once every three months.

I’ve flirted with getting rid of my internet and using the wifi at my library, which is only a half block from my apartment, but I’m unfortunately so dependent on the internet for directions, phone numbers, instructions for dealing with late night plumbing emergencies, I just can’t get rid of it.

I eat a vegan diet most days of the week, which is very cheap.  And I force myself to wait at least a month before I buy something I don’t strictly need.  It’s amazing how the desire tapers off when I’m forced to wait.

Comment #46: keshmeshi  on  07/02  at  09:05 PM

Starbucks et al are a nice, inexpensive outing, cheaper than lunch or dinner. “Meet me for coffee” means a couple of hours chatting with a friend out of our houses and it costs less than $5.

There’s a difference between “meet me for coffee” and your “daily latte from Starbucks on your way to work.” Meeting someone for coffee is cheap. Depending on a coffee shop for your daily coffee needs will drain your wallet.

Comment #47: Tyro  on  07/02  at  09:09 PM

Dumpster diving/trash picking.  I have only one piece of furniture that cost more than $25.  And I have nice furniture, made of actual wood and stuff.

That was partially how I wound up with over 20+ computers and mucho spare parts, including some nice ones like a G3 indigo Imac, a Dell Dimension 4600 from 2004, etc. 

Thanks to one friend who lives in a building where people abandon many things, we’ve come into possession of many nice books, glassware, computers and their accessories, and even a 60’s vintage electric guitar. 

The last item is now in my possession as he prefers synthesized music to what he considers “organic-sounding” instruments.

Comment #48: exholt  on  07/02  at  09:12 PM

When I got out of school I actually bought a freezer before I bought a TV, and have had one ever since. A small, energy efficient one in the 9 - 15 or so cubic foot range isn’t all that expensive - and if you think you are saving money on discounted shampoo, imagine what you can save on the meat and fish sales - my local grocery store has at least one “buy one get one free” special every week, usually several. Break things up into single use portions, label them well, and you’ll be amazed at the savings.

Another thing we used to do was hold “ingredient parties” where all the guests brought stuff to be put on pizzas or into stir-fries or on the grill.

Comment #49: Lymis  on  07/02  at  09:23 PM

Magis is right to a certain extent- greatly slashing our consumption can and will keep the economy in the dull drums. But economics is more about keeping the economy rolling, especially for consumers. Yes, spend a little more, but also re-evaluate your savings. Take an economics class yourself, or better yet, educate yourself on economics ( My personal favorite is “Shock Doctrine and the Rise of Disaster Capitalism), and above all DO NOT support companies that have no corporate conscience, and don’t let the cult of Milton Friedman and Ronald Reagan tell you what to think.
  I couldn’t get a job this summer (I live in Las Vegas and am a college student). I don’t buy many books, and this year I plan on much more food pinching from the cafeteria at school- and as for text books I buy used on Amazon. My entertainment? I knit and read Pandagon.

Comment #50: lemur  on  07/02  at  09:26 PM

I know a few folks who buy their coffee green and roast it at home.  Reportedly, it saves a bit of money, and if you get good at it, you can always have coffee perfectly roasted and *very* fresh.

Comment #51: jamie d  on  07/02  at  09:28 PM

I haven’t really tightened my belt beyond the mild-to-moderate tight-fistedness with which I was raised.  I’ve been avoiding temptation by falling back in love with the local library system, infuriating as their imprecise shelving methods and adherence to the Dewey Decimal System may be.  With movie ticket prices skyrocketing, we’re waiting until most everything is at the dollar theater before going.

I’ve also taken up gardening, which is kind of hit-or-miss with the money-savings.  But it’s relatively inexpensive as hobbies go, and a lot of productive plants are pretty enough to serve as a substitute for ornamentals, so that’s two birds with one stone.

“And I don’t have much success drinking coffee in the shower…..”

Straws help.

Comment #52: preying mantis  on  07/02  at  09:34 PM

Maybe not for everyone, but rolling our own sushi (instead of eating out) has resulted in a substantial savings and is really fun.

Concerned about the raw fish supply? Just use smoked or high-end canned, or better yet, use tofu and eggs with veggies. Relatively inexpensive, fun meal for a group. Very healthy.

I would like to co-own a used car with another person in our neighborhood who primarily drives their work car or bicycles, but have not yet found the right situation.

These small items save my family a lot, but need to be purchased and installed, so YMMV

-programmable thermostats save us huge. We do not use any A/C
- ditto hot water heater timer, temperature mixing valve ( a valve that dilutes the hot water with cold to a preset temp)
- .5 GPM aerators on the bathroom faucets, and 1.5 GPM flow shower heads. (Standard for both sinks and showers is 2-2.5 GPM).
-we use a push type lawnmower until we can change the lawn into something better.

Comment #53: staydaddy  on  07/02  at  09:52 PM

hedonistic, i am amazed by your frugality.  shampoo runoff?  baking soda toothpaste (which, as was mentioned, is actually bad for you but still)? laundry detergent every other load?  i live like paris hilton compared to you.  ok, i live like paris hilton compared to a lot of people but man, that makes me feel like a spendthrift.  that said, your degree of frugality would make me completely insane.  i recently ran out of body wash and i bought something from rite aid instead of the philosophy stuff i usually buy at sephora.  i try to febreeze my suits a lot so i don’t have to dry clean as often.  i buy generic contact solution.  if i lived like you i could probably have bought a house by now.  as it is, i struggle these days (new job, lucky to get it, but had to start out at 2/3 of previous salary, eek!).  maybe i am just defective?

Comment #54: chareth cutestory  on  07/02  at  09:57 PM

We have one car.

Yes, that isn’t “car free”, but with four people in the household, it is “car lite”.  We log 8-10K miles a year on it average, even including a couple of very long road trips.

Around here that means saving big bucks on taxes, insurance, etc.

Our neighbors have been dropping cars left and right, as they take notice that we have two adults and only one car and get along just fine.  Several of our friends have decided that they can manage, even with kids.  When their cars have died, they have simply not replaced them as an experiment, and come out way ahead.

Comment #55: Ms Kate  on  07/02  at  09:58 PM

oh yeah, and clothes from the pajama section?  that only works if your workplace dress code is…lax.  a professional wardrobe is pricey!

Comment #56: chareth cutestory  on  07/02  at  10:00 PM

In my area (boston area) there are gigantic differences between the cost of groceries at one of the larger and gigantasauraus chain stores and the smaller regional chain stores.  I will actually drive ten miles each way to get to a big honking market basket store where I can blow $300 on a couple weeks worth of groceries.  The difference in the price of a couple of staple items like cereal and milk more than pays for the gas to get to the burbs.  There is a smaller, crowded market basket closer in, but it is complicated to get there and usually too crowded to even get in the door if the fire marshal’s folks are counting heads.

We also go to a local greengrocer for produce and the local butcher/market for meats, as well as costco.

Comment #57: Ms Kate  on  07/02  at  10:03 PM

Laundry detergent every other load?  YUCKKK!

My and my husband’s sweaty bike clothing plus stinky hormonal boy teenager stinky stinky clothing ... I dont’ even let my husband wash things on cold or it all still reeks of BO!

Comment #58: Ms Kate  on  07/02  at  10:05 PM

I’m happy to see so many people using re-usable plastic bottles rather than buying bottled water but I want to throw in a reminder not to re-use the plastic bottles that soda or water come in.  They degrade quickly and emit toxins into the water.  Use glass or stainless steel.

sorry to de-rail.  carry on.

Comment #59: BadKitty  on  07/02  at  10:06 PM

I use shaving soap and a brush to lather up in the morning, rather than the canned shaving foam.  A large cake of shaving soap lasts nearly a year.

Comment #60: Ol_Froth  on  07/02  at  10:28 PM

Let’s see:

Making lots of Mario Batali’s red sauce.

Buying wine at Trader Joe’s instead of going to the bar.

Checking out movies from the university media center.

Oh, it’s nearly gazpacho season.  So there’s another way.

Comment #61: Linnaeus  on  07/02  at  10:28 PM

I wash my hair with the same handmade soap I use for the rest of my body.

FWIW, Einstein was reported to have used the same soap for shaving as he did for washing, I have followed his example as I’ve only found one ‘shaving cream’ that was better for me and my skin than the softsoap that I currently use, and it was pretty expensive and therefore hard to justify for the family budget.

If you use one of those sterilizer products at work, or if you’re a clean freak, a small ‘travel size’ empty shampoo, lotion, etc. bottle full of rubbing alcohol is an excellent hand sanitizer, deodorizer, cleaner, etc.

Starbucks doesn’t make coffee.  It makes milkshakes.

As Bill Maher put it:

“Call things what they are. If your morning coffee contains crushed ice, whipped cream, and caramel, it’s a milkshake. “

Here in CA, we have the Smart and Final chain, and if you’re in the club(which costs zip to join) then you can get discounts on certain sale items, and one can check the flyer online to see if there’s anything worth trundling down there to get.

<u>As for growing your own veggies, if you do have a green thumb, grow from seed if possible.</u>

If you want something that goes good as a stir-fry or side dish with something else, grow snow peas.  You can start them as soon the temp in your part of the world is reasonable, and you enrich your soil to boot:

As with all legumes, snow peas host beneficial bacteria, rhizobia, that fixes nitrogen in the soil — this is called a mutualistic relationship — and are therefore a useful companion plant, especially useful to grow intercropped with green, leafy vegetables that benefit from high nitrogen content in their soil.

The green shoots can also be cut and served as a vegetable as is done in Chinese cooking, especially stir-fried with garlic or shellfish such as crab.

One can also trade the pea pods for prepared dishes in Chinese restaurants if you have say a few pounds for trade and gain the confidence of the owner/cook.

Growing tips here.
I would only add that you should grow them as soon as temps go down below 70 degrees F, as we will this year.

There are sauce pouches and powdered mixes that enable you to whip up things like Mongolian Beef, Kung Pao Chicken, etc, for stir-fry, they can be found in most Asian markets that are a lot cheaper than eating out, I would just increase the meat/meat substitute and veggies quantities given to cut down on their sweetness.  Plum, hosin, oyster, and other sauces can also give you the dining pleasure of an emperor on a coolie’s budget. grin

Library sales are a good place to pick up interesting books, FWIW, at a very cheap price, I got a 13.00 paperback(“When we wore an onion on our belt, you could get a thick paperback for a dollar!”) for a very reasonable price at the last one.

 

Starbucks et al are a nice, inexpensive outing, cheaper than lunch or dinner. “Meet me for coffee” means a couple of hours chatting with a friend out of our houses and it costs less than $5. Most coffeehouses here also have free Wi-Fi, too.

Yes, but for folks whose habits are to go to the drive-thru(which my stepmom thinks is the height of Civilization) or in and out, it makes sense to switch to home-brew.  If you get some other benefit besides the drink itself, your marginal costs aren’t the same as in the scenarios I’ve outlined.

And I don’t have much success drinking coffee in the shower….

If we can drink beer from a hat, I’m sure someone’s working on that very problem right now wink.

Comment #62: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  07/02  at  10:29 PM

Cars are a huge expense. My sister moved to a town where she could walk or ride her bike everywhere. (Caution, doesn’t work everywhere: in some parts of the south, motorists will throw things at cyclists.) Even if you own a car, try to live within walking distance of everything you need often, to save gas and wear and tear.

My sister was the frugal queen. She was both a buyer and seller to the trendy resale shops. She rolled up her change and took it to the bank. She always paid her credit card bill on time.

Have people over to play board games after dinner. Make popcorn on the stove. Serve fancy iced tea.

Kids pregame before going out to a bar or club. Get your buzz on at a low price, then buzz maintenance costs less.

Don’t deny yourself all treats. If Starbucks is your thing, go there once a week. Brownbag your lunch four days but go out on Thursdays.

Get DVDs from the library, not netflix.

There’s usually one cheap grocery nearby. In California it’s Smart and Final. In the Midwest it’s Aldi’s. Try their house brands.

Compare what’s on sale at your local chain groceries. We get all the fliers delivered, or you can go on line.

I miss the cheap F&M;Distributors in the Midwest for all of the “drugstore” things at savage discounts.

Don’t stock up on things you won’t use. I still have oil filters for cars I sold long ago. On the other hand, as long as you continue to eat, you’re likely to need toilet paper.

In fact, don’t load up on things you won’t use in a year.

Costco has good prices on a few things, such as synthetic motor oil and car batteries. Don’t join, but try to mooch once a year from a sympathetic friend.

Go shopping without money or credit cards. Take notes of things you think you want or need.  Then think long and hard before you buy something.

Comment #63: Hector B.  on  07/02  at  10:32 PM

Men’s casual clothing (certain items). Cheaper. Prefer straight cut. Better pockets.
Iced tea made the old-fashioned way. No plastic bottles - use steel thermos.
Public library (duh).
Weights and simple aerobic equipment at home. No gym fee.
Reuse plastic bags as liners for trash cans.
I have been doing this for the 30 years that I have lived on my own.

Working longer hours. Too damn busy to spend money at mall.

Comment #64: NancyP  on  07/02  at  10:40 PM

Do you have ways you save money?
My wife and I shop for cheaper foods (Trader Joes instead of Whole Foods) we are dining out much, much less and we’re saving money to pare down our debt. We have given up on television in the house—no cable or DirecTv and that saved money. We’re both teachers, I very nearly got laid off so we’re spending much less. We’ve changed our spending habits from being relatively unconcerned about where the money goes to being very concerned. Oh, and the kid’s basketball camp? Not happening. He and I are playing one-on-one.

And do you think that people who are reacting to the recession by tightening their belt are being wise, or is this just a panic reaction?
We live in California so there’s reason to panic. What is happening is not seen as a bad thing by Repugs; it’s their wet dream. And they get to carry it out because of our blitheringly stupid 2/3 majority requirement to pass a tax. Combine that with a Governator who is out of office in a year-and-a-half and could give two shits about his legacy, well… we’re panicked.

Do you give a flying fuck if Starbucks closes?
Your fucking right I do! My students tell me that it’s a terrific place to work—comparatively good pay, good benefits… so they tell me.

Comment #65: SufferingBruin  on  07/02  at  10:42 PM

Oh yes, and I will spend plenty when I think it is warranted. I buy Birkenstocks, pricey, but they last, and they are way cheaper than the podiatrist. I buy the best-fitting bras I can find in my odd size, but wait until they are on sale. I spend on classic dressy clothing - just try to get it on sale. Eyeglasses - I get these in good-quality frames from a good-quality non-chain optometrist.

I still pay for most FTF purchases by cash.
I wear shorts and sports bras at home in summer heat, and use fans a lot. Air conditioning is for temperatures above 88 or so.

Comment #66: NancyP  on  07/02  at  10:45 PM

That was partially how I wound up with over 20+ computers and mucho spare parts, including some nice ones like a G3 indigo Imac, a Dell Dimension 4600 from 2004, etc.

On the other hand, if you have fewer possessions, you will need less space, allowing you to save rent by moving to a smaller apartment.

Comment #67: Tyro  on  07/02  at  10:47 PM

The hubbs and I have gotten our food expenses down to just under $100 per month for the both of us. And we live in San Francisco where food is notoriously expensive. We don’t eat processed foods anymore. In fact, we stopped buying canned goods completely.

-The items that we do need to buy large quantities of - dried beans, brown rice, and wheat flour - are bought in bulk. (I don’t mean Costco but by bringing big canisters down to the co-op and filling them up.) Dried beans are MAGIC on food savings.
-We buy the rest of our food from the Farmer’s Market, which shows up twice a week just two blocks from home. Dude, 1lb of tomatoes for 95¢? 1lb of mushrooms for $2? 1lb carrots for 60¢? Too awesome.
-We buy all our clothes that we can (because they don’t carry underwear and socks) at thrift stores and all our household goods via Craigslist and eBay.
-The local library has been a big help, but for those ultra-new books we have to wait until our desperate local retailer has another sale. (Sometimes we do break down and go to Borders; they *are* having a 50% off sale tomorrow.) All my textbooks come from Half.com.
-I’m a big fan of peppermint tea; I only recently found out that I can buy plain ol’ dried peppermint leaves and steep them instead. 79¢/lb instead of $4.99/box (which has 3oz of leaves in it if we’re lucky). I’m sure there are lots of other herbal teas for which the same can be done.

Things I could probably do but won’t:
-Stop getting my eyebrows threaded and pluck them at home. (Done before, but with disastrous results.)
-Get a prepaid cell phone when my current contract expires. (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus8-2009mar08,0,4417313.column)
-Not getting my hair done as often. (I can’t let it get to my shoulders - it bothers me!)
-Laying off the video games.

Comment #68: Tesla Dethray  on  07/02  at  10:54 PM

I buy Birkenstocks, pricey, but they last, and they are way cheaper than the podiatrist.

Mileages vary here. Walking on cork footbed Birks in the concrete jungle tortured my knees. But the plastic pair I bought at a sports outlet warehouse are kind to my knees.

Comment #69: Hector B.  on  07/02  at  10:55 PM

Oh, if you live in San Francisco and have some friends who cook, go to SF Herb. (herbspicetea.com) The prices are ridiculously cheap, but the minimum quantity is a pound. So four people who want four ounces each are all set.

Comment #70: Hector B.  on  07/02  at  10:58 PM

Been grossly underemployed for a year and a half, and was denied unemployment, so basically living off savings and cashing baby bonds (thanks, Mom!). Thank god I never owned a car or mortgage, and don’t have kids, and I dislike coffee. But dumped magazine subscriptions and book purchases (biggest vices), buy in bulk when things are on sale, pick up sweaters for $3 in thrift shops, etc. But one idea I haven’t seen in the comments is to try to limit your purchases, restaurant outings and entertainment (and even volunteer work) to locally-run businesses,  companies and flea markets in your neighborhood. They are really struggling the most, they keep our communities vibrant, diverse, and sustainable, and deserve our patronage, even if it is as meager as mine is these days.

Comment #71: Kathy  on  07/02  at  11:06 PM

Y’all, I think the frugality tips are great, but please let’s not turn this into one of those frugaler-than-thou discussions where the implication is that any fool could save gazillions by just getting off their asses and being as clever as we are instead of stupidly spending money on [whatever].

I didn’t get that impression.  I think that maybe in flusher times, people can be that way, but the tone I’m getting from this and other discussions I’ve seen since the crash is that people are really trying to help a neighbor out.

Comment #72: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/02  at  11:13 PM

Well, rather than spend $4 a day at Starbucks, I bought a Rancilio Silvia espresso machine. It’s $600, but it makes *much* better espresso. Of course, I could only buy Miss Silvia because I had a good grinder, like the Baratza Maestro ($200), and then, I either had to make frequent runs for premium coffee or I had to spring for the $150 Nesco coffee roaster (I now think I made a mistake and should have bought the Hearthware i-roast-2 - closer to $200) so I could have freshly roasted coffee and… uh.

Yeah.

Though you might note that if I was willing to spend $4 a day at Starbucks (I’m not), that’d *almost* pay for my toys in a year.

And you can get a good Gaggia espresso machine for about $2-300. At that point, you’d have paid for all of your toys in a year. And you’d have learned a fun hobby.

I’m also saving money by continuing to drive my ‘97 Saturn (soon to be 13 years old), which shows you where *my* priorities lie. (It still runs reliably, and the air conditioning works, and it’s still solidly over 30mpg. Saturn was built to compete with Toyota and Honda, and at least the early models did it right!)

Comment #73: LongHairedWeirdo  on  07/02  at  11:14 PM

Starbucks et al are a nice, inexpensive outing, cheaper than lunch or dinner.

Agreed, I should have mentioned this.  I’m actually a big fan of coffee houses, and go to them alot.  But usually only in the afternoons, and usually for social reasons or work-related reasons requiring wifi.  I just don’t get the early morning coffee run at all.  I’ll go to the coffee house by my house if I wake up craving their breakfast tacos, and when they try to sell me coffee, I feel bad saying no, but I hit the “brew” button on my pot before I ran over, so that it would be ready when I got back.

And I don’t have much success drinking coffee in the shower…..

The holy grail is a shower with a “dry” spot in it so you can bring your mug in.  This is addict behavior, I realize, but I don’t care—-when I had to get up at 6AM to blog and get ready to go to work, I would set mine on the toilet, which I could reach from my shower, a benefit of a tiny bathroom.  Now I can get up a little later, so I just drink and read the news.  I think part of my problem is I’m working within 5-6 minutes of getting up, so coffee must happen pretty much immediately.

Comment #74: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/02  at  11:16 PM

kathy, i did mention that actually (well, in the context of apparel), but i’m also trying to eat at my favorite local restaurants (not like i’d usually pick a chain, but still) and buy music at the local record stores, same with books, etc because i want them to stick around.  i’ve seen too many places i enjoy close up shop recently and i want to do my part.

Comment #75: chareth cutestory  on  07/02  at  11:17 PM

In the past I’ve grown my own mint for tea; now I pick it and other herbs from local landscaping. I’m also about to start saving the bottom few inches of my green onions and planting them in pots; I have a friend who did this successfully and she hasn’t had to buy any since. I hang up my clothes to dry in my room. My commute is currently by light rail, which is (barely) within walking distance, but I’ve found that, if I take the local bus to the light rail and buy a transfer to light rail I don’t have to walk and the bus ticket plus transfer is actually cheaper than the light rail ticket alone. In general if you use mass transit a lot it’s worth checking for deals like this.

Comment #76: c.e.d.  on  07/02  at  11:21 PM

There is a starbucks in the lobby of my building.  There is a starbucks 1.5 blocks to the west.  There is a starbucks 2 blocks to the south.  There is a starbucks two blocks to the east.  Between Faneuil Hall and my Financial District job, I pass two additional starbucks, plus another lobby Starbucks just up the street.

Something has to give.

Comment #77: Ms Kate  on  07/02  at  11:22 PM

One thing about Netflix: the cost is more than worth it if you have an Xbox or watch the DVDs as they come.  We often go through 3-4 discs a week from Netflix.  If you haven’t set up your Xbox to stream Netflix, it’s something to consider, if you already have a subscription, because it’s free.

Comment #78: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/02  at  11:23 PM

Meat is more expensive than vegetables, both at the checkout counter and for the earth.  Not to mention possibly for your health.  So consider reducing the amount of meat in your diet.

If there’s a farmer’s market available, check it out.  Not everything is going to be cheap but the in-season food probably will be, and will taste better.  Combine this with growing your own food—you can buy seedlings there much cheaper as well, if you’re not confident about growing from seed, and get some very interesting varieties.

Make a list of what you need while you’re at home looking at what you already have.  This goes for CLOTHING too.  It’s too easy to go clothes shopping and buy what you see and go home without the turtleneck you thought you were shopping for.

If you make a run shopping to multiple stores for the same kind of item, for example clothing, go to the cheapest stores first, then to the more expensive ones, so that the only things you buy at a high price are ones you couldn’t get elsewhere. 

BUY A NEWSPAPER on the weekend for the coupons and the sale listings and plan your purchases before going shopping.  You can get rainchecks for items they run out of.  Don’t buy stuff you wouldn’t buy otherwise, though.

Yard sales—they can be great or disappointing.  Some people have a “yard sale” every weekend and only have crap.  Estate sales can net interesting things that will satisfy a “unique stuff” jones at low prices, and if you don’t buy, it’s cheap entertainment.  But there is the gasoline factor nowadays.  Driving costs are not just the gas, there’s also repairs, insurance, and eventual replacement cost.  Today I figure it costs 50 cents a mile.

For things you buy often, it’s reasonable to take note that flour is cheaper at store A and cooking oil is cheaper at store B.  I go shopping every week but rotate the stores I visit depending on what I need and what’s on sale where.  Again, with gas, an extra trip to get an item for only a little less will cost you more.

When you’re in the store supposedly everything is marked with a unit price (per ounce, per liter, per unit) to help you decide what package has the best price, but sometimes two items aren’t measured the same for some reason, or if you’re comparing two kinds of item (e.g. concentrated versus regular strength laundry detergent) they don’t list the cost per load but per ounce.  Have a calculator handy for this if you’re not really good with math and conversions.

With laundry, I start with half the amount recommended at first with the water, and then add little by little while the load starts to agitate if no suds develop.  Add only to the point where a little bit of thin foam and a couple of bubbles float on the surface.  More than that is a waste, and if you have sensitive skin, it can actually make the clothes chemically uncomfortable to wear.

Prepare a bunch of food at one time, freeze and eat again later.  You can buy bigger amounts of the ingredients, and maybe save money there; you will have more nights when you don’t have to prepare, just microwave, so you won’t be tempted to eat out just because you’re too tired to cook; and a fuller freezer is more efficient. 

I make enough salads for several days and put them in reusable containers.  Then I just grab and go in the morning. 

I wash and reuse plastic silverware that I use at work.  I get the tougher kind that is solid rather than with the little “ribs” which are impossible to clean properly.

Turn off the lights when you’re not using them.  Unless you’re flicking them on and off constantly or they’re ancient, even fluorescent lights don’t take all that much power when starting up.

Use regular towels instead of paper towels for “clean” jobs.  If you do use a paper towel to dry your clean hands, it can be left to dry and reused for a “dirty” job.  Medium-dirty paper towels (used to drain fruit for example) can be used for more-dirty jobs (picking up spills).  I have a hierarchy of cleanliness that would confound Saint Augustine or Kate Gosselin, so this hint may not be useful for anyone but me and my late father.

Have a game night in instead of going out.

Become best friends with band members so you can get on the guest list.  Later you can write a tell-all book and make millions.

Comment #79: oldfeminist  on  07/02  at  11:26 PM

This sounds pretty obvious but staying out of stores saves me a lot of money in impulse purchases.

Don’t get on Lands End e-mail list, then. I was doing so well, then Lands End started sending deals right to my inbox. And FREE SHIPPING coupons like three times a week. *blushes*

Everything on that list, we already do. I’ve always drunk the office coffee. And while the husband does eat the various Trader Joe’s lunches, $1.99-$3.99/day is still cheaper than what you’re going to get anywhere else.

I have a garden this year that I’m planting in “shifts” and crowded plantings over sheet compost . . . I’ve already managed to slash my produce purchasing in half, and once veggies besides salad food matures, I can stop buying everything but onions and garlic probably through October (I’ve never successfully grown those; I think that in my area I need to do a fall planting/over-winter for those).  I’ll re-sheet compost the garden with yard waste over the winter for next year.

As I mentioned in another post, we’re also trying to do bulk (organic/grass-fed) beef via buying a cow. Found my other quarter-cow possibility today . . . nothing like your neighbor across the street saying that they just got their deep freeze fixed and they’re looking into bulk purchasing.

We’re camping for vacation, but would have been doing that anyhow. We carpool (two adults, one kid) but have been doing that for almost six years anyhow. Even when I worked 25 miles beyond my husband: his company was on my way. He worked 4x10, I worked 5x8.

We canceled cable.

Comment #80: hp  on  07/02  at  11:27 PM

Oh yeah: the husband and boy-child get their hair cut via clippers. The boy-child has never been to a hair cutting place, the husband hasn’t in three years.

One day, when I was drunk, I took a pair of scissors to my hair. After the great number of complements I got on my very fashionable hairstyle, I realized that cutting your own hair is mainly easy, as long as you’re willing to keep it about shoulder length and have someone to even out the back for you (you can flip it over the top of your head and mainly get it evened out, but it’s best to have someone eye it afterward and get any stray strains). I haven’t been to a stylist in 4 years.

Comment #81: hp  on  07/02  at  11:31 PM

“(Caution, doesn’t work everywhere: in some parts of the south, motorists will throw things at cyclists.) “

I dislike the South as much as anyone, but this behavior towards cyclists is not solely found there.  Long Island has got to be one of the least bike-friendly places.  I go for 2 hour rides nearly daily, and I can tell you some stories.  It’s as if Long Islanders are openly hostile to cyclists.  I used to ponder why this would be and finally came to the conclusion it’s for the same reason that some people hate gays.  It’s because theyr’e miserable people who hate themselves and have to project that out onto somebody.  If there aren’t any homos around why not throw a bottle at a cyclist?

That doesn’t even get into the fucking pervs I have run into.  I’m 40 years old and go cycling with no makeup (just sunscreen) and wearing a helmet and pads.  Whose fucking idea of a sex symbol is that?  Well, some of the sex offenders around here, that’s who.

Comment #82: Lady Vader  on  07/02  at  11:35 PM

“If you haven’t set up your Xbox to stream Netflix, it’s something to consider, if you already have a subscription, because it’s free.”

I was able to reduce my subscription with this set-up.  The only thing I miss is the subtitling option.  You can also use the Xbox to watch downloaded content on your tv.  With the wide availability of network programming for free online, we’ll probably be able to ditch our satellite subscription soon.

Comment #83: preying mantis  on  07/02  at  11:36 PM

Obviously some on this thread are really hurting.  And when I said that you shouldn’t stop spending I didn’t mean people in that situation.  I meant the kind of people who are often profiled in the latest NY Times “oh look we found people who are suffering” story about 7 figure couples who have stopped their consumption because it’s become conspicious and in this economic atmosphere they fear they will look tacky.  It’s as if frugal became the new black.

And that’s going to perpetuate the cycle.  It’s a bad thing.

Comment #84: Lady Vader  on  07/02  at  11:39 PM

I meant the kind of people who are often profiled in the latest NY Times “oh look we found people who are suffering” story about 7 figure couples who have stopped their consumption because it’s become conspicious and in this economic atmosphere they fear they will look tacky.

I have that problem, because we both are fully employed for the first time in many years - just as the economy tanked!  I have gotten totally sniped at and guilt tripped - and I fire back with UNLESS YOU HAVE PICKED BERRIES TO BUY YOUR FAMILY GROCERIES I DON’T FUCKING WANT TO HEAR IT!  I have been poor or on a very tight budget much of my life, thankyouverymuch.  I refuse to give a shit if my having money now bothers anybody.

Not like I’m not a total tightass about spending it, all the same. I have had to decondition myself to being overly cheap for no good reason or end, just as others have come to me for advice or taken on our way of having a single car.  We also have exploding grocery bills with one in growth spurt and the other ramping up, and buying a new wardrobe for the teen every four months when he goes into Hulk mode.

We have a lot of backlog of projects to do to the house though, so we are pumping money into the local economy and keeping some of our friends employed.  It is also massively cheaper to travel to Europe, so the family is tagging along when I go to a conference later this summer.  We have been able to do a lot of last minute things that we could not do a few years back, like attend a world cup game or book lodging in Ireland with little lead time and at a steep infill discount. 

I tend to look at it as an opportunity to get things done quickly and cheaply and thus help ensure our future financial picture.  I don’t give a shit if it is conspicuous - I spent a lot of time being a tightwad when others were showing off overpriced tacky crap right and left.

Comment #85: Ms Kate  on  07/02  at  11:49 PM

I grow my own herbs, and my family has started a garden with various vegetables; we also have a handful of apple trees we planted maybe a decade or so ago. Also, you’d be surprised at all the possible ways to sexy up box mac ‘n cheese; I add a little garlic (or garlic chives, if they’re available) and some fresh ground black pepper. Which reminds me, buying a bulk bottle of pepper corns w/a built in grinder has saved me a decent amount over the pre-ground stuff, and it tastes better. I also recommend getting a reusable metal bottle or one of those specially designed plastic ones; the ones that are used for bottled water should not be reused, as bacteria will grow embedded in the plastic, no matter what you do.

oh, and for music and movies, I just use Limewire or bittorrent ; ).

Comment #86: The Gray Train  on  07/02  at  11:55 PM

I think part of my problem is I’m working within 5-6 minutes of getting up, so coffee must happen pretty much immediately.

Christ, I can’t even TALK within 5-6 minutes of getting up.  My hat is off to you.

Comment #87: nico  on  07/02  at  11:58 PM

“That survey chart had a few surprises for me. I was shocked to see that only 11% of respondents had dumped their land-line phones. My mobile has been my only phone for years, now. I don’t see the point in paying for an extra phone line that I’d literally never use. Might as well just set some cash on fire”

Well Dan, the problem is that we get blackmailed into having a landline.  Have to, or the price for DSL is the same as if we just got DSL.  Thanks, sbc.
If anyone knows how to get around this - and we’re in a weird sorta still boonies, so we can’t get cable.

Comment #88: phylosopher  on  07/03  at  12:04 AM

This goes for CLOTHING too.

This reminded me: buying things on clearance can be a false economy if they don’t go with the things you already have. So if you’re trying to buy something to go with an outfit, wear that outfit when you go shopping.

Something I just remembered: To beat the heat, I mix a little fruit syrup with cold water from the refrigerator. A liter of Slovenian fruit syrup is only $4 at the Middle Eastern store, and should last you all summer. Or you could invest in an ice shaver, freeze your own blocks of ice, and make your own snow cones.

Comment #89: Hector B.  on  07/03  at  12:11 AM

I browse online and pretend I’m actually going to buy stuff, but I found that if I look at it for about 10 minutes, I lose interest (because I think of many good reasons not to buy it). This works better for me than actual “window shopping,” particularly with pressure-heavy sales staff.

Comment #90: Froggy  on  07/03  at  12:18 AM

Dear Noble Experiments:

I have a knitting and crocheting friend who reuses yarn by buying old sweaters (esp cotton) unraveling and then using.  She’s gotten some really fine yarns this way and it fills the goodwill shopping fix.

As for the kohlrabi and other recipes, I like www.epicurious.com Recipes from Gourmet, Bon Appetit without the subscription and wasted paper.  Well organized, too.

Comment #91: phylosopher  on  07/03  at  12:20 AM

On the other hand, if you have fewer possessions, you will need less space, allowing you to save rent by moving to a smaller apartment.

Tyro,

If you’ve been used to living in extremely tight spaces for most of you life, it isn’t much of an issue finding a way to store all of that stuff….even in a room measuring 6’ x 5’ that I had when I roomed with others after college.  Most college classmates and roommates were horrified to find how I was happy as a clam in a space they’d consider extremely cramped because of the enormous quantities of computers and books I stored within it. 

Imagine how many computers and other stuff I can store in a decent sized bedroom in many 1-3 bedroom apartments in NYC or Boston….

Comment #92: exholt  on  07/03  at  12:23 AM

I might be the only person on here with this issue, so I don’t know if this helps, but I have celiac disease and a bunch of other food intolerances, so buying cheap food is rough. I pretty much only eat what I can get in the produce department, plus rice, beans, lentils, quinoa, and sometimes shrimp. It’s healthy, but it’s really far from cheap. However! It’s a lot cheaper than buying prepared gluten-free food, like specially-made cookies, and it’s healthier, too. My mom got me a bread maker that has a special gluten-free cycle, and that has saved me SO much money. If I had bought it myself (not possible, never even have $1000 in the bank account at once) it would have paid for itself by now. Store-bought gluten-free bread is disgusting and expensive, but I can make my own, and I know I’m not putting anything in it that will bother me, so it’s a win. I’d recommend a bread maker even if you don’t have celiac, actually. It tastes better and has no preservatives. Also, a lot of food (gluten-free or not) can be bought on Amazon’s Subscribe and Save, which has free shipping for orders over $25. A lot of people I know have had success with this. I haven’t done it, because there’s not much I can eat that can be had from Amazon, but that’s something to think about, too.

oldfeminist: I do the same thing with paper towels. My partner thought I was nuts at first, but we go through them so much more slowly. I’ll also re-use foil and wax paper if they’re not dirty. I try to use foil as little as possible because it’s terrible for the environment, but sometimes it can’t be avoided.

Comment #93: F. McGee  on  07/03  at  12:24 AM

“Meat is more expensive than vegetables, both at the checkout counter and for the earth.  Not to mention possibly for your health.  So consider reducing the amount of meat in your diet. “

Depends on the meat and the way it was raised.  CAFO cornfed horrid.  Marginal land grassfed - just fine all round.

Comment #94: phylosopher  on  07/03  at  12:25 AM

A tip on resale shops: If you walk in looking like a million bucks, they pay a lot more.  I will wear my most outrageous hipster duds while selling clothes at Buffalo Exchange.  If I can get the woman buying clothes to say, “OMG, where did you get that coat/skirt/shoes?” then I see a lot more money/credit for my trade.  I wear my knee highs and my vinyl coat, if cold.  Leather pants, microminis, whatever.  Just look like you roll out of bed looking like a rock star.

Comment #95: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/03  at  12:31 AM

I recently moved to an apartment from a group house (the group house was way cheaper, $480 for all food, utilities, and rent). Now I prowl freecycle daily for good deals on couches, chairs, etc. for furnishing my place.  Also, i pretty much never buy clothing new (with the exception of underwear, for obvi reasons), and buy pretty monochromatic stuff so that it’s interchangeable.  I get a lot of free clothing from people, somehow….
I hand-make gifts.  I walk everywhere rather than taking the bus, biking, or driving.
My biggest expense has always been eating out. I’ve tried weaning myself of this habit, to no avail. As a freelancer, I need an excuse to get out of the house, plus I hate hand-washing all my dishes, and i’m never inspired to cook for just myself or my partner.  So instead, I’ve adhered to the 3$ per meal eaten out rule; if I eat something out, it has to be 3$ or less.  (corollary is the restaurant can’t have a mascot—this is an indirect attempt to weed out fast food options). Its economical, keeps me from overeating when I’m out, and encourages me (because there’s so little under 3 bucks) to eat in.  Also, like others said, I never buy books or movies, but check them out from the library.
Other things that are ostensibly cheaper, like growing my own spices/food, biking, sewing/knitting, DIY projects, I found to be more expensive due to startup costs and my tendency to do things only twice before losing interest.  I read somewhere that “you know you’re on the right track when the solution to one problem simultaneously solves another.” I try not to use any “cheap” solutions that aren’t either also adding pleasure or convenience.

Comment #96: t-ster  on  07/03  at  12:32 AM

I’ve been doing my own hair with clippers ever since the lady at Supercuts sneezed and wiped her hand on my head.  (Note: it’s *entirely possible*, maybe even likely, that she sneezed somewhere other than into the hand that she then wiped on my head.  I had my glasses off, so I couldn’t tell you.  I was still grossed out.) 

Instead of buying canned dogfood, when the dogs get bored with kibble I make my own with beef heart, brown rice, and carrots.  (Beef heart costs $1.09 where I shop—cheaper than any other meat, with no waste.  If there isn’t any sitting out, I ask the guy.)  Similarly, when I want to give my dogs something to keep them busy for a while, instead of giving them rawhide or a rawhide substitute, I fill the cavity in a real bone with generic peanut butter.  (You can get sterilized bones at the pet store or raw ones at the grocery store.  I got the sterilized kind because my dogs are allowed on the furniture and it’s less icky that way.  They aren’t totally cheap, but last forever.) 

Check if there is a grocery outlet in your area.  There are two in mine: the skeevy non-chain one sometimes has good deals, but it’s a mess, and many of the products have damaged packaging or are out of date, so you really have to examine anything before you buy it.  Amelia’s is a chain, but it looks pretty much like a regular grocery store (except that the selection is weird), and doesn’t sell out-of-date goods.  Their prices are as good or better than the skeevy one.  (The skeevy one is closer, or I’d never bother with it.)

Comment #97: A.  on  07/03  at  12:36 AM

I’ll second that breadmaker idea, McGee.  MY eight y o is now our baker.  We just put theingredients in in teh order it says, set a timer and wake up to fresh bread.  If you buy flour and yeast in bulk (like 25# of floor - store it in two airtight popcorn drums, and a block of yeast - the individual packets are crazy expensive) we can make artisan bread for@ 25 cents per loaf, about 50 cents if we use a specialty flour or some seeds or nuts.

Our other big cost saver is one I thought of as a luxury when buying, and one no one is thinking of in July, but the four season down comforter from IKEA has saved us a bunch in heat costs.  It has a summer quilt and a fall/spring quilt that you velcro together to make a winter quilt, stuck inside a flannel duvet.  We turn our heat down to 45-50 degrees at night and it’s still a bit warm. We’re hoping to swing a wood stove for this winter so we can cut the heating almost to zip.

Comment #98: phylosopher  on  07/03  at  12:38 AM

phylosopher:  “Depends on the meat and the way it was raised.  CAFO cornfed horrid.  Marginal land grassfed - just fine all round.”

Marginal land grassfed cows don’t fart and burp?  Interesting.

That being said, I’m not a “no meat ever” kind of purist.  I’d agree that replacing huge wads of cheap ground beef in one’s diet with a reasonable amount of responsibly-grown beef is a good goal.

Comment #99: oldfeminist  on  07/03  at  12:45 AM

Ironically, I’ve been planning to do the XBox/Netflix thing for about a year, but haven’t gotten an XBox yet because I need to pay down some credit card debt.*  Comme ci, comme ca

However, now that it looks like Netflix will be cutting deals with HBO and Showtime, once I get it done we’ll probably be saving a nice chunk of change.

I make the Starbucks thing a treat, rather than a regular occurence (also, I usually drink Diet Coke, which we get for free at work, instead of coffee so that when I drink coffee the 3x caffiene levels have an effect), but I have been eschewing my past favorite, Iced Mocha, for a regular Iced Coffee.  It’s about $2 less.

Re spending and the recession:  Say what you will about GWB telling people to go shopping after 9/11, at least it made macroeconomic sense.  It’s weird really:  He internalized Keynes without realizing it, but couldn’t bring himself to admit that the government was the best facilitator of spending, or that the poor would be the best people to spend on (since they’re least likely to save), so instead he rips apart the idea that conservatives believe in personal freedom, and that “the people” know best how to spend their money, by using the bully pulpit to cajole them into spending again.

OK, I guess by “weird” I mean “utterly predictable”.

* The debt was for a good reason, but wasn’t medical bills or any other desperate scenario.

Comment #100: NY Expat  on  07/03  at  12:53 AM

Ack! Data irritation! 56% chose “Not Applicable” on the coffee options.

If you subtract that from 100 to get a new denominator, you get a new percentage: 43% of respondents who buy morning coffee have stopped the practice.

THAT IS HUGE FOR STARBUCKS, who is probably feeling it even worse, since it is a high-end coffee joint. Depending on how folks who skip frappachinos (sp?) for a $1.20 large at the old skool donut shop answered the question, and Starbucks exposure could be even bigger. Damn.

I know that wasn’t really the point of your post, Amanda, so no anger aimed your way. But—stunning.

Comment #101: humanadverb  on  07/03  at  12:54 AM

I haven’t really made changes. But I have certain habits that save $: Never use conditioner or shaving cream (regular bar soap works fine for shaving legs, armpits, & bikini line) and never use makeup. Never drink coffee or tea or pop (I guess I’m just lucky I never got addicted). Shopping for clothes and shoes is such a hassle (salesmen have laughed in my face when I’ve asked if they carry a women’s size 12 shoe) so I’m not tempted to waste a lot of money there.

Re: disconnecting land lines to save money, lots of people who live in apartment buildings like mine are required to have a land line connected to the front door buzzer system, so don’t be too startled that people are keeping them.

Comment #102: JessSnark  on  07/03  at  12:54 AM

I still spend too much on food.  I hope to spend some time analyzing my recent grocery bills to see where I can cut back.  But I do cook almost every meal myself.  Being vegetarian probably saves me some money but I have been eating this way so long that I don’t notice.  Having celiac disease makes shopping more expensive because I can’t buy from bulk bins due to the cross-contamination risk.  I also buy very little that is processed, but the minimally processed peanut butter is more expensive.

I don’t drink coffee but I brew my own tea.  I re-use tea bags but have always done that.  I also re-use loose tea.  I also bring my Klean Kanteen with me around town.  I never had a land line in this apartment and don’t own a car.  I am trying to find bus routes to take to and from work since the rush-hour metro rate sucks and the service has been terrible lately.  I love the library, so that is where I have been getting books for years.  I have been washing my hair with just water and the occasional baking soda and vinegar.  I’m using up some old honey as a face wash.  I use baking soda and vinegar as my main cleansers around the house - safer for the cats and bunnies and cheaper.

One friend and I made a pact to do free exploring in the city.  DC is easy for that since there is so much outdoor to see like monuments, buildings, etc. plus the free museums, but we are also just exploring new neighborhoods and finding tiny green pockets.  It is helping me to remember why I love living here and will hopefully keep me from regretting not taking advantage of what the city has to offer when I move someday.

I am trying to keep from using the A/C as long as possible which is a lot easier in a basement apartment.  I also have my electronics plugged into surge protectors that I switch off whenever possible, and my electric bill has gone down a noticeable amount. 

When I am spending money, I try to put it towards small and local businesses.  I’m sure they are all struggling, so if I must spend, then I want to feel like my dollars have the best chance of going directly to an individual. 

I usually visit my parents a few times a year, but I’m cutting back to just the winter holidays.  They understand because they are hurting just as much.

I hate buying clothes, so I’m happy to wear what I currently own until everything is tattered and then mend it whenever possible.  I’m also hanging whatever I can to dry to make it last longer and save the energy that I would use to run the dryer. 

And in full disclosure, my income is fine.  I was unemployed for 2 months this year for the first time EVER, and it scared the crap out of me.  I want make sure I have enough of a savings buffer to keep me afloat if I lose this job too, and I am trying to get rid of all of my remaining debt asap.  I don’t make any kind big money, and I know plenty of people who are much worse off than me.

Comment #103: Erica  on  07/03  at  12:57 AM

Also—I do all this crap because I don’t make enough money to even cover the lifestyle I currently have, and don’t want to get used to living off my partner’s income.  But if you have the money, spend it on the things you enjoy! I definitely miss buying books on impulse, or going into a non-Value Village clothing store and seeing something cute but impractical and buying it. Cheapness is not a moral value per se (although not being a greedy monkey/industrialist/banker is, I guess).

Comment #104: t-ster  on  07/03  at  01:02 AM

In contrast to you Amanda, I go to Starbucks more than ever.  They have this banana chocolate smoothie that you can get with a shot of espresso.  It’s like breakfast in a cup for me.  True, it’s cheaper to make my own at home, and sometimes I do.  But when I have to get ready in a hurry to catch the LIRR to Penn Station, I don’t always have time to make one, so I hit the Starbucks on 7th and 49th in Manhattan on my way from the subway station to the office.  A lot of the crew there in the morning recognizes me as a regular and know that I like my Vivanno with soy milk and a shot of espresso.

And if you’re looking for a “weird” way to save money, and water, try urinating in the bath tub.  The amount of water used when flushing a toilet is incredibly wasteful when you consider that there are so many people in the world without regular access to clean drinking water.  If you can take a whiz while showering, you are taking care of two tasks at once for the same amount of water.

Comment #105: Tommykey  on  07/03  at  01:08 AM

My wife and I are serious bibliophiles, yet the only books I buy nowadays are those I specifically need for my psychotherapy practice.  The library is a wonderful place.  It’s free, and you can get almost any book, and quite a few videos, through inter-library loan.  We go every weekend with our three-year-old, who often becomes upset when he can’t bring half the library home with him.  Seriously, I don’t know what we’d do without it.

Comment #106: Captain Bathrobe  on  07/03  at  01:12 AM

Coffee grounds can extend the life of cat litter—it deodorizes and then after drying, becomes absorbent itself.
Get a device that recharges standard alkaline batteries. You can use most batteries for a number of recharges, although they may have to go into lover demand devices, like electric toothbrush instead of digital cameras.
If you want to be more social with your friends for less, why not host music teas in the afternoon? For the cost of making a few baked goods and beverages, you can listen and discuss your newest IMS discoveries, and then if they can afford to go to shows, there’s still time later in the day.
Don’t use paper towels for cleaning. Rags are good for most jobs and better for the environment, plus then you know what to do with worn out towels and t-shirts.

Comment #107: Samantha Vimes  on  07/03  at  01:27 AM

If you have a washing machine at home, it’s easy to set up a clothesline or drying rack and save money by not using the dryer.  The majority of clothing does fine without the bounce + softness that a dryer adds.  Things like towels might want five minutes of tumbling.  I noticed a drop in my electric bill when I yanked the cord on the dryer.

Once a year, in midsummer, I go into my stash of old tea bags, which I assume many people have in their cupboards, and brew up a big kettle of water to make iced tea using my largest mixing bowl.  A one-gallon milk jug or something similar can hold it in the fridge.  Spent teabags go in my compost pile.  I recommend extra strength, long brewing times, and tea-miscegenation.

Comment #108: Unree  on  07/03  at  03:18 AM

Yeah, clothes line. The neighbours may think you’re common, but it’s just that Americans are weird about hanging out clothes to dry—it’s not as if they’re dirty. Keeps your clothes looking newer longer, too.

We cancelled cable, but that was more a social thing—we realised there was nothing much we wanted to watch, and the time was better spent doing productive stuff.

Brownbag lunch, ethnic grocery, closeouts, etc. Mainly because they usually have interesting stuff which livens up meals.

Comment #109: pseudonymous in nc  on  07/03  at  03:31 AM

oldfeminist:  Cows fed corn do burp and fart more.  They have more bacteria.  Ones in cafos have even more.  Cows that don’t have to graze fart more, too, than ones cafo-fed.  Ones fed corn are also then responsible for the pollution put into the environment to grow the corn!

So, yeah, it’s a sliding scale of huge impacts.

Comment #110: Crissa  on  07/03  at  03:31 AM

I don’t really know about those people who are on the train in the morning with their pint of branded coffee; I guess it’s nice to have something hot/cold to sip, depending on the time of year, as you’re mentally gearing up for the day. In any case I think the early morning coffee run is about more than just a caffeine delivery system. I only have about a 10 minute walk to work, and no coffee outlets en route, but I do get a cup from the concession in the building shortly after I come in. It’s a kind of pre-work break for me, and since I’m useless at mornings I really miss it if something happens to disrupt my routine… That £10 per week would be very low on my list of expenses to cut out if the need arose.

Anyway, I believe in economising on the big things - then you don’t have to sweat the small things so much. It’s takes almost as much mental effort to figure out a way to save £100 on your rent or £1 on your supermarket bill - so in terms of ROI clipping coupons is not a good way to save money.

Most of the money saving things I do are also environment-savers, and I’ve generally been doing them for so many years that I don’t even think about them anymore:

- I don’t drive or own any type of vehicle.
- I live in a small, affordable apartment.
- I rent, so most repairs don’t hit my budget, except if I actually broke something.
- I switch off everything, and I mean everything (but the fridge), no matter the time of year, whenever I leave the flat and before I go to bed.
- I use light saving bulbs, rechargeable batteries and energy efficient appliances. Needless to say, no clothes drier or dishwasher.
- I don’t use anything disposable (paper towels, bin liners, food containers), so everything in my kitchen and bathroom is reusable and therefore economical. I reuse things like carrier bags for bin liners, jam jars for food storage etc.
- I try to be very strict with myself about food wasteage. Buying food, no matter how cheaply, to then chuck it in the bin when the sell-by date expires is both uneconomical and environmentally irresponsible. Also, I ignore sell-by dates.

However, probably the single biggest saving I’ve made is where I chose to live. Because I don’t drive, and the British public transport system is a pleasant but ephemeral ficiton, I had to find a place close to where I work. For many people that would mean trying to live in the middle of a city where it’s actually more expensive, but for me it worked out as having to live in a pretty undesirable town. Most of my upper middle class colleagues commute from all kinds of pretty little villages in the surrounding countryside, and think I’m slightly suspect for living here… But my rent and zero expenses on commuting are sure worth it.

Living in a small, non-affluent place also has all sorts of incidental economies attached, because the retail options tend to be on the cheap end of the spectrum, local businesses price services to fit local incomes, etc. It does mean fewer cool gigs, nice restaurants and trendy shows to go to… Or spend money on - depending how you look at it!

I also do things like practice sensible credit card use (only one, for limited use, paid off promptly), look for bargains, shop at discounts outlets and in the sales, etc. I think that’s just down to my “never be a sucker, always get a good deal” native culture though. What I do like to do, and people may find this useful, is to have a piggy bank for special expenses that I know I can’t rationally justify.

I have an old soup can that I put change in; but not just any change, only £2 coins. They are rare enough that you only get one as change a couple of times a week, so it’s not like you’re getting rid of all your money every day and have to hit the cash machine more often (which would make it a false economy); but high value enough that they quickly add up to a pretty significant sum! I recently bought a Bose iPod dock with the contents, after less than a year of saving up (which sounds like a long time, but is way shorter than “never”, which is when I’d have been able to square such a luxury with myself).

I realise that this advice is of somewhat limited use to Americans… How prevalent are $2 bills? Are they so rare that it would make the scheme meaningless?

Comment #111: MarinaS  on  07/03  at  07:49 AM

Well, I’m a generally a two-beers-a-night guy, so home (or rather craft) brewing has saved me a fortune. I can get my ingredients quite cheaply from a local supplier, and I reckon each batch (approx 6 US gallons) saves me at least 40GBP. At two pints a night, that quickly adds up - I recouped all of my investment on equipment in a few batches. Plus it’s fun and interesting, and getting involved with my local craft brewers group has been a great boost to my social life (not to mention my social capital) too. And if it should come to TEOTWAWKI, I reckon a guy who knows how to brew great beer is likely to fair quite well… wink

My allotment is now starting to yield quite nicely too… In a month’s time, I’m going to have more tomatoes than I know what to do with.

Comment #112: Dunc  on  07/03  at  09:00 AM

That being said, I’m not a “no meat ever” kind of purist.  I’d agree that replacing huge wads of cheap ground beef in one’s diet with a reasonable amount of responsibly-grown beef is a good goal.
oldfeminist on 07/02 at 11:45 PM

Of course, but the boon is that they also naturally fertilize that ground.  Unless youuwant petrochemicals on your broccoli, you must have an organic delivery system, i.e. cattle (or other ruminant, hog, chicken).  And with grassfed, you have a reasonable limit to how many per acre.

Comment #113: phylosopher  on  07/03  at  09:28 AM

“How prevalent are $2 bills? Are they so rare that it would make the scheme meaningless?”

Rather rare.  I only know one establishment that ever has them in the register, and they do it on purpose to be goofy.  Your scheme would be meaningless, as you say.

Comment #114: rowmyboat  on  07/03  at  09:39 AM

Books: I love audiobooks, and get mine for free at the library and at LibriVox.
Coffee: when in Italy, I just buy espresso at the bar (it’s usually one Euro or less). There is AFAIK no Starbucks in Italy. Elsewhere, I use my faithful Bialetti moka, small and cheap. And I bring along my favorite espresso cups.
I pay all my credit card debt monthly.

Comment #115: damigiana  on  07/03  at  10:01 AM

And if you’re looking for a “weird” way to save money, and water, try urinating in the bath tub.  The amount of water used when flushing a toilet is incredibly wasteful when you consider that there are so many people in the world without regular access to clean drinking water.  If you can take a whiz while showering, you are taking care of two tasks at once for the same amount of water.

Having only ever paid a water bill once in my life, I’m going out on a bit of a limb here, but does this really affect the size of your water bill? Even if it does, wouldn’t you save even more water by turning off the shower mid-way through to lather up with soap and then turning it back on to rinse? This strikes me as a scheme that would save so little money that greater savings could simply be found elsewhere with less effort.

Comment #116: Tyro  on  07/03  at  10:42 AM

i’ve been hosting what i call ‘recession potluck’ dinners. have friends over, everybody makes something. we’ve also done it with picnics in the park when the weather in austin isn’t insanely hot. i also keep the a/c set at about 85, down to 82 when i go to bed, and turn it off completely and close the blinds (which are dark enough to block the sun) during the workday. so far it’s worked well and my electric bill is about half what it was last summer. when it’s as hot outside as it is in austin, 85 inside is still significantly cooler.

Comment #117: JulieSunday  on  07/03  at  10:55 AM

I like the occasional Starbucks coffee or chai tea with banana walnut loaf for the odd afternoon break, but when I was working I bought my morning office coffee from a street cart.  Starbucks was always too expensive to be a regular thing. But I wouldn’t want them to close completely because of the odd afternoon break thing.

I found a local movie theater that has a $5 matinee (at 3:30 pm yet) so I may go there more often.

Comment #118: PurpleGirl  on  07/03  at  11:22 AM

I remember in grad school when all my furniture was salvaged from undergraduate dumping every June, and all my electronics and clothing came from Goodwill, and Donutland would give you a big plastic pot of watery but supercaffeinated coffee and two donuts for $1.25 and they didn’t mind if you parked your ass there for the next 4 hours.

Since 1993, CF lightbulbs only. Cuts energy bills by at least 1/3 I still have some working from the late 90s. They’ve paid for themselves many times over.

Acclimated to A/C setting no lower than 76 F, and normally 78 F. Adjust A/C to 80 F during the day (I’d turn it off during the day, but that would actually be less efficient, and we’d get mold).

Coffee at a coffee bar by myself only once every couple of weeks as a Special Treat.

Free software! Haven’t had the chance to do a wholesale switch to Linux but nearly every application I use in Windows is open-source. (Plug: Majorgeeks.com. A cornucopia of useful geek-tested and -reviewed apps there.)

No processed or pre-prepared foods. Good fresh vegetables cost more, but cooking your own meat and grating your own cheese costs much less.

Buying a few expensive items of clothing that will last instead of lots of cheap rags that won’t. Generally avoiding the false economy of buying major items cheap.

Comment #119: wapsie  on  07/03  at  11:56 AM

Oh, and I hate to say it, but the music spending has gone WAY down, and that hurts me.  Doing a lot more of the “listen to it on YouTube and file it away in an ongoing e-mail I keep resending myself,” so that I can remember what to go looking for in a couple of months.

On the off chance you’re still reading this, an easier way (assuming you have the disk storage) is to use Firefox + Video DownloadHelper to pull the Flash video from YouTube to your machine. You can then watch it with the VLC player.

If you don’t want or have room the video, you can use something like FLV Extract to rip the audio from the resulting file into MP3 format. I doubt that the audio quality is close to what you’d get on iTunes or Amazon, but it’ll hold you until you can buy the track.

If you have a washing machine at home, it’s easy to set up a clothesline or drying rack and save money by not using the dryer.

I’ll second that—8 hours on the rack is usually all it takes. Not using the dryer also makes your clothes last longer (that lint in the trap is your clothing dying the death of a thousand tumbles).

Comment #120: Gracchus.  on  07/03  at  12:19 PM

I may be the last person to have discovered Powell’s Books, but it’s been a huge plus.  They buy used books online and pay for the shipping!  And they offer free shipping to you on orders over $50, even if you use store credit for the whole thing!  I have a box coming my way with 14 new-to-me books for a total cost of $4.25.

Comment #121: Leely  on  07/03  at  12:23 PM

“Cows that don’t have to graze fart more, too, than ones cafo-fed.”

Crissa, I’ don’t think this makes sense.  Typo?  Cows that don’t have to graze are CAFO-fed.

Comment #122: phylosopher  on  07/03  at  12:57 PM

I self-trim my hair using the “straight across” directions from this website: http://community.livejournal.com/feyeselftrim/  It saves quite a bit of money, versus paying for a 2-minute haircut at the increased “long hair” prices.  (The site also has instructions for a “U” shaped and “V” shaped trim.) 

I also do conditioner-only hair washing (the emulsifiers in the conditioner work fine to disolve oil from hair) using the 99-cent bottles of Suave, and it gives me better results than more expensive shampoo/conditioner products. 

My landlady has metal awnings over all the windows.  This does a good job of keeping the house cooler from sunlight coming through the windows in the summer, and also allows the windows to be kept open when it rains without letting rain in, which has a wonderful cooling effect. 

And reusable menstural products - I have a Mooncup, and some cloth pads, and haven’t paid for any products in over 5 years.  Much more comfortable, too.

Comment #123: Ursula L  on  07/03  at  12:58 PM

Instead of buying new books, DVDs or CDs, use swaptree.com, paperbackswap.com, dvdswap.com—I’ve had good experiences with all three.  Plus you get rid of crap you don’t want.  All you pay is postage.

If you live in an apartment, growing your own food can be difficult, but herbs on a windowsill are hard to kill, assuming you keep watering them. 

I keep snacks in my desk drawer at work—fruit leather, granola bars, nuts, etc—so I’m not tempted to go buy overpriced pastries at the coffee shop when the 3:30 hungry meanies hit.  During the summer I also buy cheap popsicles and toss them in the freezer, which helps with the ice cream cravings and by the way buys you a lot of goodwill with your coworkers, just sayin’.

For those trying to figure out how to drink coffee in the shower—all you need is a travel mug and one of those shower racks that hangs off of the showerhead.  Your travel mug will fit in the top section, and it’s a dry spot, so no watered down coffee.

Amazon grocery can be a good deal for things that you eat regularly—there is a discount if you have them send you the item automatically on a set schedule, as well.

Comment #124: LauraB  on  07/03  at  12:59 PM

I eat cheaper food. Not cheaper brands, just more potatos and veggies, less meat and cheese. Mix my own fruit yoghurt instead of buying it ready-made. Buy less sweets, instead make cookies that keep for a few weeks in bulk. Drink water from the tab. Eat carrots and apples instead of potato crisps. Check the calorie content of food. Something that is only half a meal should not cost twice as much as a full one.

Do not eat in the company cafeteria but bring sandwiches. Going out to eat is a luxury, it should never be part of a routine. This includes buying stuff from a food stand. Yes, even sandwiches.

Consider every purchase carefully and get what I know I’ll need and what I know will last. When it comes to clothes, buy only what goes well with what I already have. Change clothes as soon as I come home and put the work clothes up for airing. Keep all my gear in good condition, clean it regulary, store it well, use large enough bags when I have to carry something, repair those tiny hole in a sweater before it becomes a large hole. Do not buy cheap crap. Do not buy items above [some limit] on impulse. I put those items on a list and allocate money to them on christmas and on my birthday.

Run the washing machine only when it’s full. Pull on a sweater instead of switching on the heating. If I do switch on the heating in the living room, I close the door.

Learn what stuff your friends have that you can borrow. Tell them what stuff you have that they can borrow.

Never buy in bulk. Buy only what you need. Throw away every advertisement paper or coupon without looking at it—those only make you feel like you can afford something expensive because it is less expensive than it was. If “saving” starts with “buy”, do the math. Twice. And then again under less optimistic assumptions. What I spent on the kitchen herb pot on the balcony could have bought two years worth of kitchen herbs. I have the pot because I like it, not to save money.

Buy used books and music. Sell books and music you are tired of. Bicycle. When I have to drive the car long-distance, I’ll get paying passengers.

I don’t own a dryer. I don’t get my hair done. I dislike flatscreen TVs. I don’t use a cell phone.

Comment #125: inge  on  07/03  at  01:13 PM

The only place I’ve ever known to have $2 bills is Monticello, Thomas Jefferson’s home, where they give all of your change in $2 bills because that’s the bill with Jefferson’s picture on it.

Comment #126: Mimi  on  07/03  at  01:19 PM

As for money saving ideas, one I’ve long practiced, but which may not be suitable for everyone is eating two meals a day and if going out to eat to see if ordering the largest portion of a given menu item provides the best bang for the buck as I’ve often been able to stretch the leftovers to 2-4 meals on subsequent days. 

Another is to regularly watch sidewalks during weekly trash pickups to see if there are any abandoned computers or anything else I could use.  Through this, one of my main hobbies not only ends up effectively costing me nothing, it also enables me to maintain my IT skills.  Also, the free section of craigslist can sometimes offer up very nice items for zip as I’ve gotten plenty of CDs, books, computers, etc off of it.  If I want to buy CDs, I only buy mainstream record label CDs from used CD places unless I am buying from an independent artist in which case I’d buy it new or at a live show. 

I also pay attention to supermarket sales and clip coupons religiously….though I’ve picked that up from watching my parents having to do so to stretch their meager dollars growing up. 

As for books or DVDs, I frequently use my local library system which not only has a large selection of books ranging from popular novels to graduate-level monographs, but also a large selection of international books in several languages and a DVD selection of not only mainstream movies, but also movies from all over the world, especially from India, China, and South Korea.  In addition, I also use the library’s music CD collection to try out different genres before deciding to buy or not.

I don’t drink coffee regularly though I will treat even a cup of homebrewed coffee as a special treat once in a blue moon.

Comment #127: exholt  on  07/03  at  01:20 PM

Yeah, we dumped our cars.  Keith and I have motorcycles, The Girl has a scooter.  We literally get change from the couch for gas money and our insurance is <$500/year.  We have CFB in all our sockets.  We keep our thermostat at 80 in the summer and 72 in the winter.  We have done alot of the things already mentions above: coffee at home, brown bag lunch (leftovers from dinner the night before work nicely and don’t require special food be bought for “lunch stuff”), Netflix, MP3s instead of CDs, no landline replaced with cell phones, wear our clothes until they might get us arrested for indecent exposure, get furniture second hand, skipped vacation, etc.

We go to the farmer’s market for produce.  I’ve learned that buying produce from the grocery store or on the cheap or eating crap food is actually more expensive in the long run.  It isn’t as filling nor nutritious and so you end up eating more of it and the health issues later…yeah, not so hot. 

I’m also a student in college and I found that a) a Kindle can save money on textbooks, the e-version is usually cheaper than the paperback (but, of course, you can’t sell it back but what do you get but pennies on the dollar anyway) and b.  Chegg.com will allow you to rent textbooks for a fraction of the cost of even buying them used. 

I find the “spend, spend, spend us out of this recession, lest the economy never recover” contingent amusing.  The fact that we have a consumer culture/economy in this country is how we ended up in this mess to begin with.  We can thank the wonderful 1950s and their economic philosophies for that.  Thrift was once considered a GOOD thing, a sign of a responsible adult, not so very long ago.  Now, you’re almost accused of being unpatriotic if you don’t spend yourself into a hole.  That simply is not sustainable.  Therefore, the economy of this nation must be rebuilt from the ground up.  What we have just does not work.  We need to become a saving nation, a manufacturing nation, a green nation, a nation of innovation and technological advances—and not so much a nation of consumers.

Comment #128: ChristinaM33  on  07/03  at  01:27 PM

I’ve been trying to save money by cancelling my satellite radio subscription for the past two months. It’s a neat service, and I’ve already paid for the radio, but the monthly subscription cost is just one of the corners I have to trim as my major client has cut back a lot.

I called last month and said that just because work was so slow, not because the service wasn’t good for me, I needed to cancel. The rep said they could give me a month free. I said OK.

I called this week and tried to cancel again. They offered me two more free months. I told them that I had already had one, and they still offered me two more. I took the offer.

Any predictions on when they start paying me to stay?

Comment #129: Comrade Mary  on  07/03  at  01:36 PM

We seem to have a lot of tea drinkers here—seriously, buy your tea loose, in bulk.  At my local coffee/tea shop, a pound of tea (half a lifetime’s worth, practically) will run me $12-15.  If you don’t have a good tea shop near you, try adagio.com.

Comment #130: LauraB  on  07/03  at  01:58 PM

Two more tips: Get a slow cooker—they’re cheap even brand new, and really cheap at a garage sale. Saute meat in the morning, throw in water/broth and vegetables, spices, etc. and come home to dinner already prepared.

We’re lucky enough to have decent (i.e. not Tyson’s) supermarket chicken where we live. If you have a knife, you can make a number of high value products from a cheap whole body fryer. Buy three or four, cut them up, throw the trimmings and giblets into your slow cooker, and make broth overnight. Boneless skinless breasts are maybe $2.50 a pound? Not when you start with 89 cent a pound whole body fryers. Throw the wings into a ziplock, put the legs in another one. One breast = dinner for four, especially if you stir fry it. Skim the fat off the stock, and use it for sauteing the chicken. Make pate from the chicken livers. Freeze the broth, filling up an ice cube tray with some of it for when you need just a little broth for cooking.

Comment #131: Hector B.  on  07/03  at  02:16 PM

Unfortunately, library is not a possibility for me. The opening times are so that my chances to get there twice in four weeks are close to nil. After late fees amounted to twice what the library pass cost, I gave it up.

Regarding bicycling, it is not worth it to save petrol, for me. If the bicycle lasts ten years, it will not have saved its cost in petrol, especially not considering what it costs to insure the bicycle against theft. But if not taking the car for short drives makes it last two years longer than it would have otherwise, the bicycle will have returned its cost. If I didn’t own a car at all, that would save the big bucks.

I don’t do DIY projects like home brewing, kitchen gardening or learning to repair my car, because it would mean I’d have to rent a much bigger place—to recover that cost with DIY projects would not only mean making a business out of it, it would mean making a sucessful business out of it. Other stuff, like knitting, would have a rotten ROI: I’d make more an hour waiting tables than I’d save knitting sweaters.

When it comes to shows I stick to the fringe. If a show cost more than 20 Euros, it’s not avantgarde enough *g*. Best is festivals and free stuff.

One of the biggest money savers: Not being in debt.

Regarding Starbucks: That is really bad coffee.

On spending money to help the economy: Spend it where it matters. Buy locally, buy “green” stuff, support local businesses and independent stores, find out which companies pay living wages and spend your money there. No one gains if more money is spent on cheap trash from China. And only the credit industry gains if people spend over their income.

All in all, I saved money most effectively when I made a budget at the beginning of the year and stuck with it. Otherwise I feel that I cannot afford something I need to have to keep my gear in order, or I feel that I can afford some impulse buy because being too cheap to replace a ripped T-Shirt makes me feel all virtouos.

hedonistic: A large bar of soap costs 49 cent over here and will last one person for a month or three. For me that’s below the level where saving is useful.

Comment #132: inge  on  07/03  at  02:20 PM

Paul Krugman is predicting deflation, so stop saving and start spending, because the value of your savings will go down.

Comment #133: pablo  on  07/03  at  02:35 PM

Uh, pablo, I believe the advice you’re giving is appropriate for inflationary times:

Deflation is generally regarded negatively, as it causes a transfer of wealth from borrowers and holders of illiquid assets, to the benefit of savers and of holders of liquid assets and currency.

Comment #134: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  07/03  at  02:55 PM

Inge, the sweater/knitting thing isn’t a “so you can give up your day job” suggestion.  It’s more like a while I’m watching TV or (for those with small children, while I’m at home, park, wherever keeping an eye on the kiddies; also great if you have a job that requires being there but no other input, like caretaker or security guard.)

Comment #135: phylosopher  on  07/03  at  03:46 PM

Hmm… I may have confused deflation with devaluation.

Comment #136: pablo  on  07/03  at  04:04 PM

In my area (boston area) there are gigantic differences between the cost of groceries at one of the larger and gigantasauraus chain stores and the smaller regional chain stores.  I will actually drive ten miles each way to get to a big honking market basket store where I can blow $300 on a couple weeks worth of groceries.  The difference in the price of a couple of staple items like cereal and milk more than pays for the gas to get to the burbs.  There is a smaller, crowded market basket closer in, but it is complicated to get there and usually too crowded to even get in the door if the fire marshal’s folks are counting heads.

Ms. Kate, my daughter often shops at one of the Market Basket here in Haverhill (we have 3, plus 2 in Lawrence and 1 in Methuen) the weekends she drives up from Watertown to visit.  The one in S Lawrence is right off 495 as is the West Gate one in Haverhill.  If you google locations, you can probably find one near someplace you go regularly that isn’t so crowded and out of the way as the one you described.

There is a great Korean store of of 213 on 28 one town over, so we do that instead of going into China town for our odd indulgences - black rice, kimchee, buckwheat noodles (reg & organic, domestic & imported).

Make your own soup and freeze it.  Buy dry goods (rice, beans, etc) in bulk.  Grow easy but high value produce (I hate paying what the stores charge for zucchini and snow peas, for example).

Comment #137: helen w. h.  on  07/03  at  04:27 PM

the sweater/knitting thing isn’t a “so you can give up your day job” suggestion.  It’s more like a while I’m watching TV

Yes. And although you might just flat dislike knitting, or sewing, or gardening, you can’t honestly dislike everything so find the productive thing you like to do and then you have a hobby AND you can probably trade with someone who likes to knit or sew and hates do do what you do.

(You may think that’s farfetched, but it’s come in unbelievably handy for me: I’ve scored gifts for the family at the holidays, soap and other handmade personal care items, teas, knit items and jewelry, not to mention fresh eggs, live chickens and a rabbit, trading the things I sew.)

Plus, not everything is about ROI. Even a free show costs money if you look at it that way: you could be waiting tables instead with that time! Nah. Hobbies are therapy and good for us.

Also, if you get a cheap bike, so you don’t have to sweat it getting stolen, you don’t have to insure it against theft. I’ve never insured a bike or known anyone who insured theirs. Granted, I live in an area where cheap, used bikes are easy to find and often practically given away, and not everyone can find them that easily.

Comment #138: kristin  on  07/03  at  05:04 PM

Throw away every advertisement paper or coupon without looking at it

I shudder to think at how our grocery bill would skyrocket if I did this. Our menu each pay period is composed mostly of the loss-leaders from the grocery circulars. Most of the time I can use coupons to pay even less for something that’s already on sale—for example, nectarines are on sale for 99 cents a lb and with the coupon I can get them for only 79 cents.

And yup, sometimes the ads allow us to afford something expensive because it’s less expensive. This pay period we’ll be having large shrimp because a 2-lb bag is $10 instead of $16.

I guess the moral really is to be aware of how much things cost and what really is a good deal. You won’t catch me buying something we don’t usually use just because there’s a 20 cent coupon for it. But I need the ads to tell me that the staple item we *do* use is on sale 5 for a dollar.

Comment #139: kristin  on  07/03  at  05:09 PM

Glad to see I’m not the only one to enjoy home roasting green beans. I’ve ground and brewed my coffee at home for decades; contrasted with the price by the cup at Starbucks or Peet’s, 3 pounds of beans (which can cost $45) can keep us two coffee drinkers in java for a month. Then our friend told us she roasted green beans at home in a stovetop popcorn popper, and I was hooked. I thought I knew a lot about coffee until I started roasting it. Google home coffee roasting and check out how many varieties of green coffee beans I can buy nearby in Oakland for $5 a pound, which keep fresh for a year, unlike roasted beans which can be kept fresh for only a week to 10 days. It’ll be months before I need to buy any more coffee beans, plus I’m enjoying varieties I wouldn’t know where to find anywhere else, roasting as I go on an inexpensive FreshRoast. I can almost justify the price AT&T;is charging for the data line on the new iphone. Also, rather than drive the daily 80 mile commute to SFSU and back, paying for parking and bridge tolls and gas, I’m buying ferry and Muni passes, saving money and obtaining sanity and reading time on my commute.

Comment #140: Skip_Intro  on  07/03  at  06:03 PM

“Yes. And although you might just flat dislike knitting, or sewing, or gardening, you can’t honestly dislike everything so find the productive thing you like to do and then you have a hobby AND you can probably trade with someone who likes to knit or sew and hates do do what you do.

(You may think that’s farfetched, but it’s come in unbelievably handy for me: I’ve scored gifts for the family at the holidays, soap and other handmade personal care items, teas, knit items and jewelry, not to mention fresh eggs, live chickens and a rabbit, trading the things I sew.) “

Cool idea, Kristin.  I hadn’t thought of it as barter items.  I usually do it because if I’m wathcin gTV/movie I tend to snakc and that leads to .... this way, the hands are busy, so….cheap diet plan.

Hmmm…. the stores around here usualy only do “name brand” coupons.  Coupons for fruit or milk?... I wish.  And I also have to watch tht 5 for a dollar - yeah, if I’m in a hurry, the brain says five in cart, even if I only need one.

Comment #141: phylosopher  on  07/03  at  06:09 PM

Kate upthread:  The reason you can get away with soap every other washload is that (believe it or not this is what I’ve read multiple places)  washing machines and dishwashers still keep lots of soapy water inside them even after a load is finished. Rinse cycle leftovers. That’s why it’s so hard to move a washing machine - it’s heavy from all that still-kinda-soapy water.

Comment #142: The Hedonistic Pleasureseeker  on  07/03  at  07:13 PM

Chareth, about the pajama patrol:  I work in an office with a “business casual” dress code and so long as I stick with dark colors and/or mix with something tailored (such as a business jacket over a pajama t-shirt) nobody knows, bwahahahah . . . That and really GOOD shoes.

The other day I wore a plain cotton knee-length sleeveless nightgown ($14, Target)  I had a wrap dress (EBay) over it, and the nightgown worked as an underdress, which I needed for modesty.

Goodwill sells business suits for about $25, by the way, I should know wink  Anything that doesn’t fit goes to the tailor and it’s still cheaper than retail.

DSw clearance rack for shoes.

Comment #143: The Hedonistic Pleasureseeker  on  07/03  at  07:35 PM

The baseball game is on broadcast TV, which reminds me how prohibitively priced major league sports are. However, people who live in large urban areas usually have the opportunity to watch college sports, where everything, including concessions and parking, usually costs a fraction of the major league price. Less popular sports, which unfortunately includes things such as women’s basketball and volleyball, are cheaper still.

During the summers, check out your local minor league baseball team.

College performances are economical for theater, music, and dance fans as well. And, unlike professional theater which is trending to one-person shows, college theaters have no problem employing as many performers as necessary.

Comment #144: Hector B.  on  07/04  at  12:36 AM

I compost my grass cutting and leaves, as well as table scraps such as banana peels, apples etc.  Consequently, I use fewer garbage bags.

Comment #145: Tommykey  on  07/04  at  02:38 AM

Mrs Pico wouldn’t let me get rid of the land-line telephone, even though everyone in the family has a cell, but I did switch to Vonage, which saves some money.

I get my morning coffee at the local convenience store rather than Dunkin’ Donuts on the way to work; a few cents cheaper.  I (usually) get breakfast from the diner near work, but lunch now consists of a tube of saltines.  I save the plastic grocery bags for use as lunch bags.

This being a day in which I’ll lawn the mow—a Picoism, not a typo—reminds me that we bought a Homelite cordless electric lawnmower last year.  It probably requires as much in electricity as gasoline would cost, but the maintenance on an electric mower is much lower.  It’s somewhat quieter, and I don’t have to keep a gasoline can under the house.

One big item is that I change the oil and do the routine maintenance on our vehicles myself.  It’s not difficult work, and saves a bunch of money at someplace like Jiffy Lube.  Keeping on top of that stuff means slightly better fuel efficiency and, it seems to me, much lower vehicle repair bills.

Comment #146: Dana  on  07/04  at  12:06 PM

A couple of things I either have done or will do:

1. My bestest pal gave me a Mr. Bento two years ago for my birthday. I cannot recommend this thing highly enough; it’s awesome for packing food, tea, whatever into the office. However, they’re kinda spendy—if you have access to a good Asian kitchen supply store or dollar store, check out their other bento-box-like stuff. You can get perfectly good lunchboxes with compartments, et al, for hella cheap.

2. I’m about to sell my car. I bought a bike and figured out public transportation options. I’m a little sad by this, because I love my scrappy banged-up Honda, but I’m hoping that the extra exercise incorporated into my daily life leads to physical badassery.

3. Upon e-mailing my landlord to say I was moving out after my year lease was up, they counter-offered by reducing my rent $100/mo to get me to sign another year lease. I didn’t do it, because my future housemate made a counteroffer as well, but it’s absolutely worth a shot if you have a similar situation.

Comment #147: YooHooligan  on  07/04  at  01:16 PM

I didn’t get that impression.

I was being sorta pre-emptive because I’ve seen way too many discussions go that down that road.  (Especially when some of the folks offering tips assume everyone is a young, healthy, single, hip urbanista like themselves with oodles of free time and a slacker-level income.)

Comment #148: mythago  on  07/04  at  03:33 PM

phylosopher: the sweater/knitting thing isn’t a “so you can give up your day job” suggestion.

Yes, exactly. If you are doing it anyway, it will (maybe, depending on how much you pay for yarn and how good you are at knitting) save you money. If not—if knitting takes time away from things you’d rather do, or if you are just plain bad at it—attempting it will waste money, as you will have bought a bucket full of yarn in your optimism that will never become anything useful. Also, if your clothing cost is 90% work clothing, and you cannot knit well enough to show up in the office with home-made stuff, the saving potential is low.

DIY projects IMO need to be stuff you enjoy doing and have some skill in, or they won’t save a penny. Knitting, at least, won’t have you renting space or get a larger place, and what you need for it is relatively inexpensive, so finding out the hard way that it’s a bad idea will set you back maybe a hundred bucks. Finding out that vegetable farming isn’t for you after you had signed a two-year lease for a patch of land and bought tools and seedlings is much worse.

An enthusiasm for DIY is probably the second-largest money waster I have seen among my short-on-money friends. The largest is having expensive boyfriends.

Comment #149: inge  on  07/04  at  04:18 PM

kristin: I can do cooking, singing, teaching, organising and low-level computer admin. I have, in more optimistic times, wasted about a thousand Marks that I could not afford and countless hours that I could have spend doing something less annoying like cleaning the fridge or doing my tax paperwork on attempts to sew, metalwork, garden [*], or knit, and what I have to show for my efforts is wasted money, time, material, shelf space and nerves, and a peak in chocolate consumption.

Successful saving requires playing to one’s strengths, not deluding oneself about one’s weaknesses. And that’s the point of my advice,  If “saving” starts with “buy”, do the math. Twice. And then again under less optimistic assumptions.

[*] I used to live in that bigger place I have mentioned, the one that I could not afford.

Comment #150: inge  on  07/04  at  04:42 PM

kristin: Also, if you get a cheap bike, so you don’t have to sweat it getting stolen, you don’t have to insure it against theft. I’ve never insured a bike or known anyone who insured theirs. Granted, I live in an area where cheap, used bikes are easy to find and often practically given away, and not everyone can find them that easily.

I feel a little wary about buying a cheap used bike in a city where one in four bikes gets stolen. I have had three bikes stolen so far—one was inexpensive, the other two were old, so, no great loss—but I’ll rather keep the new one insured for its first four or five years.

I shudder to think at how our grocery bill would skyrocket if I did this. Our menu each pay period is composed mostly of the loss-leaders from the grocery circulars.

It probably depends on what you are used to. If your struggle is to put food on the table, finding out where in town rice and beans are cheapest is a good thing. If you are only trying to get out of debt, the idea of making an oven roast instead of lentil soup because meat is at 5 Euros instead of 15 and you hadn’t had any for a month now will set you back.

Comment #151: inge  on  07/04  at  04:53 PM

For those of you who don’t care about Starbucks closing. You don’t care about people losing their jobs? Nice real nice.

Comment #152: Malletgirl02  on  07/04  at  06:56 PM

inge wrote:

DIY projects IMO need to be stuff you enjoy doing and have some skill in, or they won’t save a penny.

But you’ll never develop any skills in something if you never attempt it.

Comment #153: Dana  on  07/04  at  06:56 PM

An enthusiasm for DIY is probably the second-largest money waster I have seen among my short-on-money friends. ... It probably depends on what you are used to. If your struggle is to put food on the table, finding out where in town rice and beans are cheapest is a good thing. If you are only trying to get out of debt, the idea of making an oven roast instead of lentil soup because meat is at 5 Euros instead of 15 and you hadn’t had any for a month now will set you back.

I’m curious, where does enjoyment come on your list of priorities? A hobby someone really enjoys, for example, even if they’re not very good at it (or they’re spending money in pursuit of the skills to become good at it) is certainly almost always more than just a waste of money.

And food is more than fuel for most people. If it’s a struggle to put food on the table and buying the pot roast on sale means not enough beans and rice to last the month, of course it would be a mistake. But if you’re trying to get out of debt or save a down payment on a house, surely the time to have meat would be the time when it’s a third of the usual cost? (Assuming your family loves to eat meat and isn’t aiming to change over to a completely vegetarian diet.)

I guess it also depends on what the sales are on where you are, as phylosopher says she doesn’t ever see sales for vegetables or other simple staples. Around here it’s easy to have our fruit, vegetable, meat and to some degree dairy dictated by what’s on sale in the circulars. Other staples go on sale a couple times a year so we stock up on those then.

I guess most of the time it would be cheaper to never deviate from rice, beans and the vegetables that are always dirt cheap like cabbage, onion and carrots, but what kind of a dietary existence would that be?

Comment #154: kristin  on  07/04  at  09:11 PM

Amen about bartering and trading with those who have skills that I don’t (or don’t want to do).  I moved back home to the South for a couple of years, and learned the best way to fend of all of the “what do you mean, you’re not going to put in a garden!?!?” comments was by offering to trade hand-knit socks and hats for their extra produce.  Worked like a charm.

phylosopher, I’ve gotten some great wool from sweaters at thrift stores, but not so much luck with cotton.  Perhaps it’s ‘cause I live in the Great Pacific NorthWet (no, not a typo) and wool’s more common. (and thanks for the recipe link)

Oh, and I love to hand quilt but piecing the tops leave me cold, so I trade with a friend; she pieces, I quilt, and then we argue over who gets the final product.  :-D

Comment #155: NobleExperiments  on  07/04  at  11:23 PM

Hmm. I can’t wear wool - allergies - but I imagine it can be a bit more difficult to unravel with the pile and all?  Strange, cotton yarn is usually much more expensive here in the Midwest than the synthetic “wools” I usually opt for.  And I’m just learning to knit, but have been crocheting for decades, so that may make a difference.  I have Grandma Phylosopher’s vintage patterns - those folks crocheted dresses!! out of triple strand bedspread cotton!!  And made boys and women’s dress jackets out of Dad’s old one.

Comment #156: phylosopher  on  07/05  at  01:52 AM

I was being sorta pre-emptive because I’ve seen way too many discussions go that down that road.  (Especially when some of the folks offering tips assume everyone is a young, healthy, single, hip urbanista like themselves with oodles of free time and a slacker-level income.)

So nice you’re continuing your habit of being the police of all the internets.

Especially nice here on this particular post where Amanda specifically asked for the suggestions given. This discussion had little if any of the tone you eschew. There absolutely was no need for your to stick in your contemptuous nose.

Having seen you do this on other blogs to other people, I strenuously suggest you devote much more time to your lawyering career and cease and desist bossing around and condescending to anonymous people on the internet.

Seek help, would you, for your control freak impulses.

Jerk.

Comment #157: teac  on  07/05  at  02:36 AM

I have to disagree on the homebrewing.  I don’t save any money with it, although I love it and it’s a blast.

Ingredients of my last batch were at $60.  That works out to a little over $1/bottle.  Cheaper than drinking at a bar, but just breaking even to on-sale good beers and a lot more expensive than PBR.  Not to mention the fact that I’m more likely to share/give away homebrew because I’m proud of it, so I spend $60 and end up only getting to 24 bottles to myself.  (Also there is the rare batch that turns out tasting like shit and is dumped out.  That is an expensive mistake)

Comment #158: jackieg  on  07/05  at  04:45 AM

Hobbies are ruinously expensive, but good for mental health. I spend scads on paint, canvas, brushes, etc. Yes, I can give friends paintings of their kids or dogs or both, but it’s not exactly a savings.

Most people have said everything I’d say except:

1) Pay attention to the big stuff and the big cash leaks, especially: getting a roommate will save more than peeing in the shower or not using soap. I grew up with a Dad who saved plastic bags and string ad nauseum, but forgot to pay credit cards. Cheap often wastes more money than just not buying stuff and being aware of spending.

2) Budget. I’m a major fan of Gail Vaz-Oxlade, who does a show called “Till Debt Do us Part” on Slice, a Canadian cable channel. She’s a big woman with a Jamacian accent, lively and earthy, prone to telling people that they’re being Dumb Bunnies when they buy flat-screens on 30% credit cards. She’s got a bunch of budgeting tools on her website. There’s lots of others, but I like hers. It’s amazing how simple it is to cut expenses when they’re broken down (and when the budget actually fits your needs).

3) Professional clothing: Goodwill, Value Village and consignment can really help here, provided you enjoy thrifting and know good labels. The problem is that it’s easy to buy stuff that isn’t perfect because it’s cheap. But when I was a sessional I had innumerable suits, almost all from Holts, that came from Goodwill.  I have a TT job now, and make about four times what I did then, and everything I own is from H & M. smile

Comment #159: jrochest  on  07/05  at  05:21 AM

Ironically, I’ve been planning to do the XBox/Netflix thing for about a year, but haven’t gotten an XBox yet because I need to pay down some credit card debt.* Comme ci, comme ca

  You don’t need an xbox.  you can stream netflix on your computer too.  I do this quite a bit, and I’m sure there has got to be a cable out there to connect most newish computers to most newish TVs so you’re not trying to get the whole family around a laptop screen.

Comment #160: jackieg  on  07/05  at  05:39 AM

Dana: But you’ll never develop any skills in something if you never attempt it.

There are better and worse moments to develop skills. Shelling out several hundred or thousand bucks when you are in a tight spot financially in the hope that the skills will develop as needed to the degree that you’ll get your initial cost back does not strike me as the thrifty thing to do. 

Kristin: I’m curious, where does enjoyment come on your list of priorities?

There are few things that eat up any shred of happiness the way money troubles do. Everything enjoyable that I know I cannot afford requires complicated mental constructs of denial and doublethink, which in turn take immense mental energy to uphold, and will break down at the least opportune moment.

It’s these constructs that shop fliers offering stuff one cannot afford for prices one still cannot afford feed into. The “oh, come on, it’s cheap, let’s have it, just this once” keeps one in the habit of impulse buying “just this once”. And these “just this once” things. like lattes, or sandwiches from the deli not only accumulate badly in money spent, but when it comes to stuff to carry home, it accumulates in your place, too, and fills it with cheap crap while keeping you from buying something that might actually be durable or useful.

I found it far more efficient and generally more enjoyable to budget and stick to it. If I find, at the end of the month, that I have something left on the budget, then I’ll gladly blow it on lattes or roast beef or Belgian chocolates. (Yepp. I have no self-discipline. I try to work around that.)

A hobby someone really enjoys, for example, even if they’re not very good at it (or they’re spending money in pursuit of the skills to become good at it) is certainly almost always more than just a waste of money.

One of the first things I’d do, before anything I mentioned on my list (well, except budgeting), is to quit expensive hobbies or to find a way of making them less expensive. When I have money to spare on singing, I take lessons and sing in a choir, when I have less than that, I quit the lessons, still less and I sing in an ensemble that meets in someone’s living room and arranges pieces by ear.

And, again, when you are strapped for cash this it IME not the time to take up an expensive hobby, and telling yourself that it will save you money is one of those intentions the road to hell is paved with. Which is why I will strongly suggest to everyone considering doing so that they do the math first. If you feel you absolutely have to take up an expensive hobby when you are broke because nothing else will make you happy, then its worth trying to find a way to do it, but don’t assume that it will pay for itself until it has.

Comment #161: inge  on  07/05  at  02:10 PM

One of the nice things about expensive hobbies is that often people who started those expensive hobbies, but stopped, are willing to get rid of hobby-related items for free or cheap. If I wanted to take up playing the clarinet I’d hit Craiglist, not the local music store.

cheap often wastes more money than just not buying stuff

Cheap also wastes more money than a slightly more expensive, but thoughtful, purchase. I know, I know, people use that as an excuse to say ‘why not get the best, it’ll last longer’, and if you’re poor you don’ t have a choice, but I really do know people who would rather buy a cheap $5 item that will break in a few months and need to be replaced than a similar $10 item that will last for years.

Comment #162: mythago  on  07/05  at  02:29 PM

One of the nice things about expensive hobbies is that often people who started those expensive hobbies, but stopped, are willing to get rid of hobby-related items for free or cheap. If I wanted to take up playing the clarinet I’d hit Craiglist, not the local music store.

Yep, that’s how I got so many nice discarded computers and now a musical instrument.  With the former, the hobby has more than paid for itself whereas the latter has made picking up what would be an expensive hobby far less expensive than it would otherwise be. 

One main reason why I haven’t picked up learning a musical instrument was due to the high expense of just the instrument and then the need for lessons or extreme self-disciplined dedication needed to become decent at it unless one is musically gifted to begin with. 

Seen too many rich kids in my general area buy and then attempt to sell off expensive instruments ranging from several hundred to several thousand dollars after finding they can’t hack putting much serious time and effort after a few weeks…or even days.  To me, that high initial cost is way too high considering there is little guarantee I’ll gain enough proficiency to make it worthwhile. 

As for craigslist…I’ve never had any luck finding free musical instruments….they are usually gone by the time I happen by the ads.

Comment #163: exholt  on  07/05  at  03:59 PM

exholt, definitely not arguing that one should take up an expensive hobby under the assumption that the cost will solve itself (“Think of how much we’ll save on beer after I’ve sunk hundreds of dollars into the basic equipment!”) or that one should blithely assume everything needed will fall like manna from heaven; just noting that while I agree with inge on this, it’s often (as you note) quite possible to take up an ‘expensive’ hobby inexpensively.

Comment #164: mythago  on  07/05  at  06:42 PM

And, again, when you are strapped for cash this it IME not the time to take up an expensive hobby, and telling yourself that it will save you money is one of those intentions the road to hell is paved with. Which is why I will strongly suggest to everyone considering doing so that they do the math first. If you feel you absolutely have to take up an expensive hobby when you are broke because nothing else will make you happy, then its worth trying to find a way to do it, but don’t assume that it will pay for itself until it has.
inge on 07/05 at 01:10 PM

Inge:

what world do you live in where hobby must = expensive?  For one thing, hobbies can serve multiple purposes - as I pointed out to kristin earlier, crocheting is also my diet plan.  IN addition, it can serve to teach kids a la Waldorf method things like counting and fine motor skills, and if the result isn’t perfect, show me a Grandma who will complain that her grandkid-made potholders aren’t square.  The investment is minimal or zip (Under $5, or nothing if you use recycled materials). 

you’re also conflating two very separate terms here - a hobby isn’t meant as a diy or a money maker.  It can become that, at which point it’s a part time job, or a business, or a chore of necessity.  Until then, it’s a hobby, something you do for your own enjoyment in your leisure.  As for the argument that leisure should be spent pursuing money making activities - even the poorest require some balance and downtime in their lives.  Think whittling, music and singing, social quilting, etc.

Comment #165: phylosopher  on  07/05  at  09:22 PM

Several people I know pursue expensive hobbies quite cheaply by taking adult education or community college courses. The late-in-life pianist takes group lessons at the community center—she’s gotten quite good without ever owning a piano. The craft potter owns neither a wheel nor a kiln—the community college does. And the exquisite woodwork (dressers, entertainment center, inlaid chest) a third turns out was done without purchasing a single power tool. Tuition was less than $50 a semester, and the only other cost is matierials.

If you must buy equipment, I agree the castoffs of the bored or outgrown are good. Top stuff lasts forever. The price performance curve of just about everthing is like an upside down hockey stick: small increases in price buy much better equipment until you reach a “knee,” after which you must spend a fortune for even minor improvements in performance.

Comment #166: Hector B.  on  07/05  at  10:13 PM

How prevalent are $2 bills? Are they so rare that it would make the scheme meaningless?

$2 bills are not rare at all.  You should be able to get them at any bank if you just ask for them.  They’re still printed regularly and they’re not worth any more than $2.  I know this because my father, a CEO, once gave all his employees Christmas bonuses in $2 bills.  We had a bunch leftover and we used them for a few months.  My dad used to get a kick out of spending them and seeing a confused cashier; I guess he never matured past 10 years old.  Anyway, my point is that they are not rare at all and you can easily get them at a bank just by asking for them.

Comment #167: bananacat  on  07/05  at  10:31 PM

Several people I know pursue expensive hobbies quite cheaply by taking adult education or community college courses. The late-in-life pianist takes group lessons at the community center—she’s gotten quite good without ever owning a piano.

Either she’s naturally musically gifted who has never had a chance to demonstrate it or she probably spent several hours practicing each day for 6+ days a week. 

At my undergrad, the piano majors at the conservatory tended to put in at least 8 hours of piano practice per day 6+ days a week on top of classes, classwork for non-piano courses, extracurriculars, having a life, and sleep. 

Tuition was less than $50 a semester, and the only other cost is matierials.

I’d like to know which community colleges you’re talking about and where….don’t know any community colleges in my area which charge such low tuition per course.

Comment #168: exholt  on  07/05  at  11:25 PM

i wish i could live without AC - but if the temp gpes above 75, i get sick - above 72 and i am really uncomfortable. this is just me bitching, really - i have advice for lowering costs when it comes to AC
:( other than not using it, which isn’t possible for me

re: urination, though…
toilets are dreadfully expensive in many ways. and i grew up in Northr CA where we had our water rationed MOST OF THE TIME so that rich people in SoCal living in the desert could have lawns.

it sounds gross, but isn’t really - if once can urinate in the shower, right by the drain, and use a cup of water to was it down, it saves *GALLONS* of water. sure, we don’t actually pay what water is worth in most places in the US, but still - conserving water is good, and it does save *some* money. most one bedroom apts (in Ohio, it may be different other places) either charge you directly for water or have an average tacked onto the bill, and it tends to be about $30 a month around here (much more in CA!). not using the toilet for urination (but please do rinse it down the drain with a cup of water) may save a single person $10 a month - but that’s two-and-a-half frappacino’s, if i have the price right (i DO NOT drink coffee OR tea - i have been in exactly ONE Starucks ever in my life, and it was the first one i ever saw and i thought it would be a sci-fo store, based on the name. man, was i ever disappointed. this was well over a decade ago, back when they were first expanding)

i just want to tell everyone: good luck. we all need it

Comment #169: denelian  on  07/06  at  05:33 AM

also; Exholt:

i taught myself piano for *years*. my mom bought a piano and all these books for my middle little sister to learn piano (which i am still bitter about for various reasons) when i was 12 or 13. since i already knew how to read music, it wasn’t totally hard - there were difficulties, mostly along the lines of making my hands work seperately instead of together like they do on all the other instruments i was playing that the time (even the violin is easier than piano, when it comes to the hand issue…)
by the time i had a job at 16 and was able to pay for lessons, the teacher put me in the “graduate” class (she had 5 levels before graduate; beginner, novice, practised, advanced, master, and the graduate) granted that was 2 hours of practice 4 days a week that i did on my own, and granted i already had all the music theory down. but the woman he is speaking of might be like i was - already knew how to read music, knew the theory, knew an instrument (or 7) and was just picking up another. in that scenario, i can see one becoming pretty good in just a semester working 6-10 hours a week. if you already have a musical background, i think piano is the easiest to pick up, but YMMV

Comment #170: denelian  on  07/06  at  05:51 AM

phylosopher: what world do you live in where hobby must = expensive? 

Let’s see, what hobbies have I argued against taking up with an intent to save money if you have none?

“I don’t do DIY projects like home brewing, kitchen gardening or learning to repair my car, because it would mean I’d have to rent a much bigger place”

Home brewing. If you live in a nice inexpensive one-bedroom flat, you have to get a bigger place, unless you want to brew in the shower. That makes it expensive. Needs big glassware or barrels which makes it expensive. Might need a car to move said gear which makes it expensive. Needs, as jackieg says above, about $60 of raw materials to turn out 60 bottles of beer, unless the batch fails and the money is lost. That is not cheap beer.

Kitchen gardening. Needs a garden, which you do not get for free. Needs tools, which cost money. Needs a place to store the tools. Seedlings. Fertilizer. Drives to your garden and back. Means of preservation, because in a temperate climate, there will be more than you can eat in summer and none in winter. Again, storage space. Under optimum condition (SAHM in an old farmhouse), those might be cheap vegetables. Your average middle-class city-dwelling full-time working latte-drinker will not have optimal conditions. Those are not cheap vegetables.

Learning to repair my car. Needs a garage where I can work, which needs to be rented, which is not cheap. Needs tools, which need to be bought, which is not cheap. Tools need to be stored, so a tiny garage won’t do. Community college offers courses during work hours for under 100 Euros, which is reasonably cheap. If I could get there during work hours.

“Other stuff, like knitting, would have a rotten ROI: I’d make more an hour waiting tables than I’d save knitting sweaters.”

An Irish sweater costs 50 Euros and lasts five years. Knitting it would take me about 50 hours plus cost for yarn. There are savings possible, but they are marginal.

“DIY projects IMO need to be stuff you enjoy doing and have some skill in, or they won’t save a penny. ”

Let me see an argument for renting a larger place, renting garden space, renting a garage, spending money on tools and raw materials when you’re broke while praying that a skill you never had before might materialise out of the blue so you can do something you do not enjoy to save money. I fail to grasp it.

Or it *is* a matter of where you live: Most US SCAdians I met owned immense places, gigantic cars, and owned loads of stuff to play with or “save money with because DIY is cheaper”. So it might be that space, cars and gear is nearly free in the US. In that case, make that argument.

But make one.

Comment #171: inge  on  07/06  at  07:57 AM

phylosopher, again: you’re also conflating two very separate terms here - a hobby isn’t meant as a diy or a money maker.

This thread is about saving money. My argument is, “spending money on DIY projects when you lack interest, skill and resources won’t save money.” With regard to hobbies, it is, “quit expensive hobbies, or make them less expensive”.

It seems you have a problem with any or both of those, but I cannot figure out what it might be. So your hobbies are not expensive. Which proves, eh, what exactly?

Comment #172: inge  on  07/06  at  08:10 AM

I haven’t seen this yet.  The house I live in has an attic exhaust fan.  It cools really well and cuts down on AC use.

Comment #173: Susa  on  07/06  at  11:43 AM

i taught myself piano for *years*. my mom bought a piano and all these books for my middle little sister to learn piano (which i am still bitter about for various reasons) when i was 12 or 13. since i already knew how to read music, it wasn’t totally hard - there were difficulties, mostly along the lines of making my hands work seperately instead of together like they do on all the other instruments i was playing that the time (even the violin is easier than piano, when it comes to the hand issue…)
by the time i had a job at 16 and was able to pay for lessons, the teacher put me in the “graduate” class (she had 5 levels before graduate; beginner, novice, practised, advanced, master, and the graduate) granted that was 2 hours of practice 4 days a week that i did on my own, and granted i already had all the music theory down. but the woman he is speaking of might be like i was - already knew how to read music, knew the theory, knew an instrument (or 7) and was just picking up another. in that scenario, i can see one becoming pretty good in just a semester working 6-10 hours a week. if you already have a musical background, i think piano is the easiest to pick up, but YMMV

Denelian,

IME, you are far more similar to those who are musically gifted, had a strong interest, and had the extreme self-discipline and drive to learn it to the point you got placed by your music teacher in the “graduate” level classes.  You’ve also had the benefit of learning musical theory at a young age, something few get until they are in their late teens or their early 20s at the earliest.  Heck, considering how quickly you picked up the piano considering the amount of practice you mentioned you had, you’d most likely fit right in with the conservatory piano majors at my undergrad who are musically gifted students from all over the world who successfully competed in fiercely competitive auditions for admission. 

However, most people who didn’t have the benefit of learning music theory early or are not naturally musically talented have to put more time and effort in to gain the level of proficiency that you or the conservatory classmates at my undergrad could achieve with practical ease. 

Heck, many who practiced for months or even years still cannot play well enough to even prevent family members or friends from cringing as those rich kids in my area and many of my older cousins who had socio-economic privileges to have musical instruments, lessons galore, and some exposure to musical theory have demonstrated.

Comment #174: exholt  on  07/06  at  01:44 PM

Inge:

again, think outside the box.

Take gardening for whch I can give a real life example. Spouse and I have the land in a periurban setting.  Two young kids - what we sometimes don’t have is the time. 

Add: two wonderful nearby suburban apartment dwelling friends without kids.  They help us garden.  Their investment: gardening gloves and tools.  Bought once - last for at worst 3 years.  All veggies that we grow that they want. 

Add: older reitred couple.  Trying to clean out smallish house, hate to see stuff go to waste.  Passed canning stuff to us.  They get some “specialty” canned products from us yearly. I also gladly accept help if she gets the bug to can.  She’s older, so she wouldn’t be able to harvest or carry heavy canning kettles, but she’s the best cherry pitter and bean snapper I know. 

Add: veggie farmer met at farmer’s market: gave us the best advice on frezzing corn and tomatoes.  ALso willing to supply us with larger amounts or if garden has crop failure in one area, or we can’t grow X because of soil type.

Add: Heart of city dweliing professional couple with two large dogs, no kids.  We exchange houses with them for at least a week each summer.  We get our city fix, and they garden and care for our animals and the dogs run.  Cost: uhm the less than a tank of gas to get to each other’s places, which we’d do anyway. 

I have another friend who has organized weekend canning and poker parties - this really makes the work fly and keeps costs minimal - we share lots of tools because no one can use them all the time.

YOu can even rent city or church kitchens for these at a minimal charge and we share know how too.

Comment #175: phylosopher  on  07/06  at  02:07 PM

At my undergrad, the piano majors

Whoa. We’re talking hobbies here, not careers. Hobbies are something that you do with your free time to help you forget the aggravation from things you have to do to earn money.

Home brewing. If you live in a nice inexpensive one-bedroom flat, you have to get a bigger place, unless you want to brew in the shower.

I brewed in a nice inexpensive one-bedroom flat for years. Assuming you own a stockpot of some kind—a pasta pot, for example—you can get started for $110, and buy additional supply kits for $30, at www.williamsbrewing.com . Or you can get the “complete brewery” with brewpot and cooling coil for $210. One kit makes two cases of beer, or $0.60 each. While deposit beer bottles are a thing of the past, flip-top bottles like Grolsch work great. While I wouldn’t brew in the summer, ales are happy to ferment and age below 70F. A five gallon pail sits happily in a corner of your kitchen.

Another way to get started in cheap hobbies is to have friends and family. When I needed to replace a carburetor, I went to a friend’s father’s house. Over the years he had accumulated all the tools necessary. He was happy to see them being put to use. When my grandparents sold their house, they grew their plants and vegetables at my uncle’s house. He was happy to let them have the space, and the garden was decorative as well.

Comment #176: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  02:34 PM

what world do you live in where hobby must = expensive?

What post were you reading where inge said “All hobbies are expensive”? inge’s comment was that one should not take up expensive hobbies, not that one should refrain from taking up any hobbies - and that one shouldn’t justify those expensive hobbies by saying ‘oh, they will pay for themselves’, i.e. after hundreds of dollars of investment in equipment you’ll save $5 on beer.

“Thinking outside the box” is a pretty clueless comment; you have land and have been fortunate enough to be given free equipment and labor. This may shock you, but not everybody owns land or lives in a community where other people just happen to have usable, free canning equipment to hand out.

One of my hobbies is rebuilding old computers. This is very inexpensive for me only because I live somewhere that I know a lot of nerds, and they are happy to hand off their still-useful-but-old computer equipment off to me. Should I go around sneering at people who live in East Luddite, Iowa and don’t have access to free computer equipment that they’re not “thinking outside the box” if they can’t do what I do?

Comment #177: mythago  on  07/06  at  02:54 PM

inge’s comment was that one should not take up expensive hobbies, not that one should refrain from taking up any hobbies

Inge also advised against knitting, because of the time it would take to produce a sweater, as well as the cost of yarn.

Comment #178: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  03:08 PM

Whoa. We’re talking hobbies here, not careers. Hobbies are something that you do with your free time to help you forget the aggravation from things you have to do to earn money.

Hector B.,

You mean aspired to careers as even considering that the piano majors at my undergrad whose program is ranked in the top 10 in the US…..several of them along with visiting alums have estimated that only about 10% of their graduates are able to make musical performance into a viable long-term career. 

Most of those who aren’t extremely well-off from family end up having to move into completely unrelated and career paths to make a living.  This was probably one reason why most of the conservatory students at my undergrad tended to, with few exceptions, come from upper/upper-middle class backgrounds. 

In most lower-middle/working class families IME, most parents aren’t going to be inclined to allow their kids to spend 4 years, even on a full scholarship, studying something which requires expensive equipment along with long hours/day of study and practice with little to no obvious viable career path upon graduation.

Comment #179: exholt  on  07/06  at  04:20 PM

It’s intersting that internet discussions about money always end up with “I can do, so you can, too”, and make “know what works for you and what doesn’t” into a completely out-there idea bordering on offensive.

So, some of you like knitting and would do it no matter what. Maybe some of you like cooked lungs in vinegar. (My aunt does. It’s a cheap dish, no arguing about it.) Doesn’t mean everyone likes knitting, or cooked lungs in vinegar. My aunt might respond, were I to complain about monetary problems in putting a decent lunch on the table, that I just make cooked lungs in vinegar. Which isn’t much help. (I still love her. I only avoid her cooking.)

pylosopher has an utterly amazing and enviable infrastructure of friends and neighbors, and access to cheap land[*] and communal kitchens. Does not mean everyone has it. I can put meat on the table by playing cards. Does not mean that everyone can.

Were I to suggest playing cards as an universally useful way to supplement one’s income, I’d get funny looks, and I could answer that it works just fine for me, and also that playing cards is a hobby and remarking that it might not be the best thing to do in financial straits shows an unreasonable aversion to the concept of hobbies.

Well, I don’t suggest it. Until you are good at it. And you know that you are good at it when you look at your own performance without optimism or vanity and add up the numbers. If you are not good at it, I’d suggest that you limit your losses to what you can afford. However offensive that suggestion might be.


[*]—I put in a few minutes of web research: While renting an allotment can be dirt cheap, they are hard to get. You pay a two-figure sum for a year on the waiting list, and people are offering four figure sums for the rights to an allotment, with no takers. If I inherited one I might take up gardening just to not let something that valuable go to waste.

Comment #180: inge  on  07/06  at  07:12 PM

I’d like to know which community colleges you’re talking about and where….don’t know any community colleges in my area which charge such low tuition per course.

These folks might:

Academic Year Annual Tuition
Tuition is in three convenient installments. Students usually sign up in May or June for the following academic year to get the best time-slot selection, but you can sign up at any time during the year if there are openings. Recitals and parties are built into our tuition for convenience; our program works out to be roughly $37 for 30 minutes, $53 for 45 minutes, and $70 for 60 minute lessons. See below for details. There are no registration fees and no recital fees.

From what I can tell, it’s about 100$/month for a 30 minute lesson per week with the ontime payments, which is what I would recommend for the beginner.

The idea isn’t to perform good enough to get to Carnegie Hall, just so that you can play a few things well.

In my case, I read music and took lessons when I was 14, I took more lessons at 17 when I decided I wanted to do more, and by the age of 20 I was playing Rachmaninoff and Debussy.

Of course, I also cheated by independently deciding to learn to use my left hand more then the usual right-handed, I think that helped, and I never practiced much more than 1 hour a day.

If you were exposed to classical music at an early age as I was(my father never heard any Beethoven until he took a college music appreciation class, I can’t remember when I didn’t know the Symphonies, but that’s a matter for another time) that helps.

Also, talking about careers isn’t a reason not to learn to play, look up the derivation of amateur, for starters(something that one does for the LOVE of the activity) it’s not because you’re going to be the next Lang Lang or anything like that.

Also, it’s a good way to get members of the opposite(or same, if you’re that way) sex interested in you, at least I found that true in college.

I even organized a small piano recital because of a mucky-muck in the music department who refused to let me play a small Scott Joplin waltz at the monthly student recital, a snare drum soloist was able to play a piece called “Green Machine”, found a suitable campus venue, got the piano tuned, did my own publicity, etc.

My parents discouraged me from pursing it as a goal by telling me of a music major who was reduced to playing in a Shakey’s pizza parlor, but thought it was a worthwhile endeavor, as a hobby.

Comment #181: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  07/06  at  08:45 PM

exholt
my point wasn’t how lucky (or gifted… a gift i can’t access anymore, except for singing) my point was that the woman being discussed (who brought her up? this thread is looooooooong, guys!), if she had any training in music - say she played flute in her high school marching band - wouldn’t find learning to play piano all that different from what she already knew how to do (even if rustily). she would already know how to read music (at least treble clef, and from there the bass clef is pretty easy…) and that is probably the hardest part of learning to play anything aside from maybe embechiour (whch i am not spelling correctly - how you hold your mouth fr different instruments).
and also, what *I* considered the acceptable level is not at all the same as a person who is learning for fun would consider an acceptable level. if she was able to play a few songs she really liked, then that would qualify as “she became pretty good” - especially when there are a large number of “easy” arrangements (i recently found sheet music for “Moonlight Sonota” in C. not Bb, or Aa, or any of the normal arrangements - it was in C, with almost NO occidentals - the EASIEST VERSION EVER recommended for 2nd year piano students!)

somethings are easier for others, and if one has a musical bent, learning an instrument (as long as one has *ACCESS* to an instrument) isn’t generally that hard. it’s only when you want to be a professional at it that it becomes Nintendo Hard…

Comment #182: denelian  on  07/06  at  10:12 PM

I think we’re suffering from some translation issues here - Inge, you’re a city dweller in Europe, right?  I imagine that makes a difference compared to our spaciousness in the states.  ANd your comment about “not taking up an expensive hobby, I read as advice to not taking up any hobby because they (implying/inferring ALL) are inherently expensive.

AS for my “network,”  and the reason I brought it up, is that I often saw myself in that “I don’t have a support group so I can’t do X”  box.  (No sibs, parents deceased, spouses family not very familial, etc.)  But it took one mentor saying “it’s better to have a family you make rather than one you’re stuck with.”  So, instead of envying those with large and involved family connections, I began being more open and organizational about “alternative” kin.  It didn’t happen overnight, and there were some experiments with “bad fits.” So, it was intended as an example, not a blueprint.  And many times, just having the cahones/chutzpah to ask someone if they would be interested in X, and the willingness to try it for a season.  I’m working up to hopefully doing a European house exchange for a summer.  This idea seems very foreign as in uncomfortable to most Americans I mention it to.  We seem to have an aversion to sharing - think about how the average American seems to want their own pool, backyard playset, lawn mower, etc.  And in my area, we even reject mass transit for the “private” auto.     

AS for the land issue - yep, lucky.  However, I have worked with programs and people who are very urban who don’t have land by luck - and it has been interesting to see how it can (almost always) be worked out.  Again, please reference that link I posted about Flint.  In rustbelt areas of the states, many cities are literally giving away land to avoid blighted vacant lots.

Comment #183: phylosopher  on  07/07  at  02:06 AM
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