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Next entry: The GOP Budget: Almost To The Point Where We’re Almost There Previous entry: An Announcement

Creationists degrade the level of discourse once again

EducationScience

As the prophet of a new but well-attended (in spirit, though not in body) church—-the Church of the Mouse and the Discoball—-I find the language of my fellows in other religions that have preposterous origin stories to be mystifying when it comes to an insistence that one must “teach the controversy” about that most uncontroversial of claims, that the world as we know it is very old and that life as we know it evolved painstakingly through time.  How is there a conflict?  Yes, I understand that many Christians believe an origin story about how god made man and then made woman to be his slave and made a bunch of animals to be tasty for man and that anything that’s bad that happened is woman’s fault.  But I believe something equally preposterous, that the world was coughed up in a hairball ejected from the Great Cat, as he was trying to distract the Goddess from making love to her new amour, the Roller Disco King.  My story is even less preposterous than the Christian fairy tale, because at least we know that cats do that sort of thing.  And the “blame women for everything” has the distinct stench of complete bullshit, emanating as it does from a culture that is suspicious of granting women the power that would allow them to fuck up anything, much less everything.  And yet, I’m the one who gets that whatever fool thing I believe shouldn’t be competing for classroom time with the actual scientific theories that are evidence-based. 

Of course, this is why Discoballmouseatarianism is the One True Church, because we’re the only church that will admit to you that everything we tell you about the supernatural is grade A bullshit, good for fertilizing jokes, but no way to understand the world.  Creationists, alas, are a more small-brained sort of religious believer, and they believe their own bullshit and are perfectly willing to make complete asses out of themselves denying that the sky is blue when their silly little religion tells them that it’s yellow. 


I bring this up, because as a Texan, I feel compelled to apologize for the morons who kept trying to cram “teach the controversy”-style language into the state’s school board standards.  They did, sadly, succeed in making the actual standards vague enough that determinedly stupid biology teachers could try to permanently injure their students by teaching them lies instead of science, but on the whole, the good guys won.  That said, the terminally stupid did succeed in making fools out of themselves repeatedly, first begging for language about the “strengths and weaknesses” of evolution, and when they lost that battle, thinking they could trick everyone by asking for language about the “sufficiency or insufficiency” of evolutionary theory.  At this point, I hope, everyone just felt bad for them, because they think everyone else is as easily confused by synonyms as they are. 

But I do pity them on occasion.  Creationists are, after all, victims of their false religions.  If they joined up with Discoballmouseatarianism, they wouldn’t have as many problems as they do.  It’s not just that we teach people not to believe their own bullshit.  But it’s not just that.  I suspect our non-attendance policy helps as well.  Creationists go to their churches on Sundays and often on Wednesdays to have “fellowship”, which unfortunately gives them a group of people as deluded as they themselves are to hang out with.  And this leads them to believe that their delusions can’t be that bad when they’re shared by so many people.  When you’re a dude in these churches, your belief in the Evedidit story also means that you get to gallivant around the place, spouting ignorant nonsense, and no one will call you out on it, because dudes therefore get this right not to have anyone argue with them.  Not that anyone would, of course, because everyone is there to have their delusions propped up instead of challenged. 

But on the whole, fuck those bastards.  If they had their way, they’d brainwash your kids and make them as stupid as they are, because secretly, they still have wild insecurities about being so stupid and need to swell the ranks. 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 12:08 PM • (35) Comments

From the opinion piece in the Times:They had to settle for language requiring students to “analyze, evaluate and critique” scientific explanations and examine “all sides” of the scientific evidence.

The creationist see no problem asking the students to, basically, use the scientific method to evaluate scientific explanations.

Comment #1: Danzig  on  04/01  at  12:23 PM

Well, not really.  They’re only funning.  But it is amusing that they are resorting to asking people to ask questions, something they’d never do if they had more control over the information offered.

Comment #2: Amanda Marcotte  on  04/01  at  12:32 PM

” If they had their way, they’d brainwash your kids and make them as stupid as they are, because secretly, they still have wild insecurities about being so stupid and need to swell the ranks.”

They’d pretty much have to recruit new believers.  After all, the Duggers, as hard as they might try, can’t produce enough deluded white Christians on their own to keep it all running…at least not for long…

Comment #3: MikeEss  on  04/01  at  12:33 PM

Well, not really.  They’re only funning.

You bet. It was a poor attempt at a joke.

Still, it always amazes me that the creationists have so little faith in their faith, in their churches, and in themselves. If it really is the devil’s lies(science,homosexuality,etc) that sway people, it seems they are more confident in the devil’s power than they are of their god’s power. That always sticks with me.

Comment #4: Danzig  on  04/01  at  12:55 PM

because we’re the only church that will admit to you that everything we tell you about the supernatural is grade A bullshit

The Bokonists have held to this practice for years.

Comment #5: acallidryas  on  04/01  at  01:02 PM

Am I being paranoid when I figure the point of “teaching the controversy” is to muddy the waters about what evolutionary systems can actually accomplish?

A lot of right-wing and even neo-liberal bs, ranging from pseudo-evo-pseudo-psych to free market extremism, is based on the idea that what evolves under selective pressure is necessarily teh awesome and the way things should be.

Judging by what little I know of learning psychology, if you teach students “some people say evolution explains living organisms” and “living organisms are so perfect, the FSM must have created them out of whole cloth”, the take home message of “teaching the controversy” will be “wow! evolution produces results that are so good it looks as if the FSM created them”.  Someone with that confidence in the outcomes of evolutionary processes—that evolution makes right—is going to fall for the conflation between evolutionary thinking and ethics, e.g. Social Darwinism.

Am I being to paranoid in wondering if that is the real reason why, maybe not the religious folks themselves, but the people paying the bills for the right (the people cutting the checks for wingnut welfare) the insistence on teaching the controversy?  The real reason is to get people to swallow Social Darwinism as a legitimate ethical system?

Comment #6: DAS  on  04/01  at  01:03 PM

Fair point, acall, but they are a fictional church, so they really take it a step further, I’d say.

Comment #7: Amanda Marcotte  on  04/01  at  01:08 PM

DAS, it’s actually pretty inflammatory, because what they’re doing is giving fundamentalist teachers a license to teach their beliefs in the class under the guise of “teaching the controversy”.  School board standards are insidious that way.

Comment #8: Amanda Marcotte  on  04/01  at  01:09 PM

My high school biology teacher really went out of his way to ‘teach the controversy.’  He even brought in a guest speaker to explain clearly what both sides were saying - even telling us that some people believed that evolution was tied to abortion, infanticide, genocide, and pretty much every other major fear.

That speaker’s name was Eugenie Scott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenie_Scott).  Guess how the anti-science view was presented?

If only there were a million of her…

Comment #9: Billingham  on  04/01  at  01:15 PM

Fred Clark at Slacktivist did several posts recently about how enraging it is to him that “fundamentalists” are basically re-writing the Bible to claim it includes things it clearly does not (like creationism):

Why I’m Peeved

Previous posts:
‘Dismaying’
Well Put

Comment #10: Mnemosyne  on  04/01  at  01:25 PM

wait ... the sky is BLUE?? When did this happen? Why was I not given advance notice? How can a person make a full and detailed study of the Great Ball with this sort of frippery going on?

Comment #11: firefall  on  04/01  at  01:26 PM

I believe we should teach the controversy.

For instance, Why did GOD never earn his PHD?

Comment #12: cynickal  on  04/01  at  01:27 PM

You know with all the religious craziness that my catholic schooling exposed me to it really insulated me from this anti-evolution hooey and for that I am a little grateful. 

The optimist in me hopes that the vast majority of biology teachers understand evolution well enough to not be creationists.  One does need a degree in biology to be a teacher.

Comment #13: semi_factual  on  04/01  at  01:31 PM

Maybe we should teach the controversy, Scott’s Evolution vs. Creationism, an Introduction, could be the textbook.  I wish I’d gone to Mikey’s school.

Comment #14: G Porgey  on  04/01  at  02:01 PM

“I wish I’d gone to Mikey’s school”

I wish I knew who she was then.  I was a freshman, so I guess this was 1998 or so.  So no skeptical internet to tell me I had an evolution celebrity coming in.

Comment #15: Billingham  on  04/01  at  02:20 PM

I just wish I knew why christians in the past oh say 40 years have gotten SO insecure that people aren’t going to their churches in larger numbers have felt the need to betray their own teachings and cram it down the throats of the unwilling.
I thought that the bible (from what I remember for it - I stopped going to church when I was 14 and sick and tired of being dragged from one pentecostal shithole ((seriously- how many dirty storefronts are there?)) to another)  taught that you should worship in “secret”, spread the word to those who WANT TO HEAR IT, etc.
But maybe I’m just being deluded.

It’s hard not to see christians and their ilk as a huge hurdle for people to become educated.

It’s like Ghandi said “I like your Christ, I do not like your christians, they are so unlike your Christ”

Comment #16: Danica Lefse Queen  on  04/01  at  02:31 PM

Cynickal, one of my professors at college had that on his door (as a joke) and it’s been one of my favorites, especially #10.

When I was in junior high our science teacher stood at the front of the class and declare the big bang was bullshit because, and these are his direct words, “no such explosion could ever create 9 (at the time Pluto was still a planet) perfectly ‘round’ spheres that all rotate as needed around the sun”  (he should have said oval but none of us dared to correct him). I was sitting at the front of the class and while I was already well on my way toward falling off the religion wagon it was shocking as hell to hear from a man who was supposed to be our science teacher.

Then again, I went to a school where we had morning prayer circles around our flag pole and the religious kids would gang up on you if you ever said anything against Christianity (this happened to the poor kid who admitted he was an atheist. About six students gathered around his desk and barraged him with “you’re going to hell/let us save your soul”  rhetoric).

Comment #17: UltraMagnus  on  04/01  at  02:32 PM

I’m with Amanda’s last paragraph because at some point some of these kids are actually going to have to do some thinking that involves evolution and natural selection, and they’re going to be screwed. And I’m pretty much over wingnuts thinking that all different kinds of legislation and governance are about chances to strut their egos and enrich their cronies rather than about, say, people’s lives and livelihoods.

Comment #18: paul  on  04/01  at  02:33 PM

I read “discoballmousetarianism” as “discombobulatarianism”.

Not much relevance, except that I think the latter pretty accurately describes the creatonist approach to questioning authority.

Comment #19: BrianX  on  04/01  at  02:44 PM

Of course, this is why Discoballmouseatarianism is the One True Church, because we’re the only church that will admit to you that everything we tell you about the supernatural is grade A bullshit, good for fertilizing jokes, but no way to understand the world.

Yeah, but do you promise “Eternal Salvation or TRIPLE Your Money Back!”

Comment #20: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  04/01  at  03:07 PM

PIATOR, we have this:

“If you want pie in the sky by and by, then you don’t want Reverend Ike. But if you want pie ala-mode with ice cream on top, then listen to Reverend Ike every Sunday morning”...

Comment #21: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  04/01  at  03:50 PM

Yeah, but do you promise “Eternal Salvation or TRIPLE Your Money Back!”

‘Triple’ you say?  Where do I sign up?

Comment #22: Richard Goblin  on  04/01  at  03:56 PM

‘Triple’ you say?  Where do I sign up?

Everybody is so ignorant these days.

Now send me $25.  Or kill me.

Comment #23: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  04/01  at  05:55 PM

Everybody is so ignorant these days.  Now send me $25.  Or kill me.

Doh!  </faceplant>  I can’t believe I forgot about those guys.

Comment #24: Richard Goblin  on  04/01  at  06:29 PM

I am sorry amanda, but you are simply wrong.  Although you are correct to have a cat in your creation story,  like catholics against lutherans, worshiping your goodess simply distracts from the one true god: ceiling cat.

Comment #25: kitten parade  on  04/01  at  06:39 PM

If the choice were the Wall Street version of Social Darwinism and the Genesis fairy tale I’d have to think long and hard. There has been great deal of evil done by misinterpreting “survival of the fittest” to mandate a battle for superiority on every front. The eugenics movement was an example. And feminism certainly isn’t without worries: pseudoscientific “explanations” for the patriarchy (e.g. fringe evo-psych) don’t get us to any better place than Mosaic law with respect to the status of women.

As the master scientific theory for all biological life evolution is irrefutable. But we have to realize that some of the concerns raise by its opponents can’t just be brushed away—and in fact I think they make a good case that evolution must be taught—and taught well. It doesn’t help that there are plenty of examples of thinking that claims to have evolution at its core that is demonstrably flat-out wrong.

Comment #26: weirdnoise  on  04/01  at  06:58 PM

If they had their way, they’d brainwash your kids and make them as stupid as they are, because secretly, they still have wild insecurities about being so stupid and need to swell the ranks.

This is so, so true. My father is a reasonably intelligent man. He has a graduate degree and has been successful in business, he has a good memory, and he often brings up good points in conversational debates. He also does not believe in evolution.

As far as I can tell, there are two reasons for this. One is that he prides himself on his intelligence and hates that there are people out there who (think they) are smarter than he is. You should hear him pronounce the word “scientist.” He absolutely spits it. His attitude is purely, “They think they’re so smart!” In fact, he often says basically those same words.

The other, less relevant reason is just that he’s scared and insecure and needs a religion to cling to, and it helps him cling to his religion when he denies evolution, even though it would be perfectly easy to believe that God caused evolution or helped it along or whatever without changing his core beliefs.

Comment #27: Lauren O  on  04/01  at  07:23 PM

The optimist in me hopes that the vast majority of biology teachers understand evolution well enough to not be creationists.  One does need a degree in biology to be a teacher.

I had an excellent biology teacher in high school happened to be a creationist fundie.  She just never let her religion impact her teaching.  The only reason I know about it at all is because I remained friends with another teacher from the school as an adult, who marvelled at her ability to keep the two parts of her life completely separate.  So it is possible to teach biology and evolution well even if you don’t “believe” in it.

Comment #28: Leely  on  04/01  at  07:32 PM

You should hear him pronounce the word “scientist.” He absolutely spits it. His attitude is purely, “They think they’re so smart!” In fact, he often says basically those same words.

Your dad is free to go live in a cave and stop using the products of science. Why would he want to use things that are produced by people who are obviously so stupid and evil?

Comment #29: Entomologista  on  04/01  at  08:07 PM

Timely piece. This coming saturday I’m taking the kids to the Creationism Museum in Kentucky (where else?). We’ve been looking forward to it for a long time. We tried to go several years ago, but it didn’t work out well.  Better luck this time, eh. I’ve always thought it important that the kids learn the true nature of religion and, as you imply, Creationism is a great place to start. I’m really looking forward to the gift shop.

Comment #30: chuckling  on  04/01  at  08:34 PM

Your dad is free to go live in a cave and stop using the products of science. Why would he want to use things that are produced by people who are obviously so stupid and evil?

Well, some science is okay. For example, he studied engineering in school and was literally a rocket scientist for a while. However, he has expressed a preference for anything that is natural, because it’s stupid to think we can do anything better than how God created it. I was like, “All right, no more painkillers for you. Let’s just get some willow bark and you can chew on that.” The topic of circumcision somehow came up a few minutes later, and I asked him why he’d had my brother circumcised if he preferred natural things; he said circumcision counted as natural because God commanded it in the Bible.

I swear to you, the man was literally a rocket scientist! He just can’t bear to know there’s someone out there smarter than he is, so he pretends all kinds of stuff is true despite evidence to the contrary. He insists he knows more than me about feminism (and he sums up feminism like this: “It blames too much on men”).

Okay, I am getting a little carried away. I think I need to go sit away from the computer for a while.

Comment #31: Lauren O  on  04/02  at  12:06 AM

Don’t think I didn’t notice that blatant slam against the FSM, Amanda.  You frakking Disco Ball people are all alike.  Bastards.

Comment #32: Johnny Pez  on  04/02  at  07:49 AM

I work in the educational publishing field and this decision is big news. TX’s selections really do decide what the rest of the county will use for textbooks. You have to admire their strategy, ignorant assholes that they are. If decent people can gain a majority on the Board and railroad through some good selections, you’ll see change surprisingly fast. It’s an insane way to choose educational materials, but we can make it work in our favor just like the Don McLeroy’s have.

Comment #33: Elizabot  on  04/02  at  08:42 AM

i was literally 17 years old before i realized that some people actually DON’T believe in evolution. i still have a hard time wrapping my mind around that fact, which is probably due in part to the fact that i was giving my parents’ friends lectures on how birds evolved from dinosaurs when i was 6.

i really, really want to visit that creationist museum though. a few friends of mine went for opening day, and posted all their pics on facebook. it’s ridiculous how much money they put into the displays (at least as much as our real natural history museum up in cincinnati put into theirs). i’m pretty sure there was at least one with a woman in buckskins nursing an infant about 7 feet away from a passing velociraptor. take lots of pictures while you’re there.

Comment #34: akzidenzgrotesk  on  04/02  at  04:48 PM

Let’s not use the expression “believe in evolution”, please. There is no need to “believe” in evolution as there is no need to “believe” in those things backed up by evidence. Sorry to be a stickler, but science is a language built on precise terminology.

Comment #35: Dan2108  on  04/03  at  10:41 AM
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