And let me add one thing:

9/11

Take that, LIEbruls!

Poor community organizers. I’m sowwy. :(

Jim, you’re more than welcome to be an asshole - to your credit, you’re open and honest about it, unlike Malkin or Palin.

Wow, defending Malkin and Sailer.  Nice one, Jim Treacher!

What EXACTLY did Obama do as a community organizer?

What did he actually accomplish?

If there is really something impressive there, I’d like to hear
it.  This guy is at least 50/50 to be my next President.

(And the other guy is no bargain either).

Libertarian:

Yeah, what *did* Obama accomplish in his first job out of college? What did he actually accomplish? Because, you know, that’s what really matters to running this country, is what his first job out of college consisted of.

It consisted of helping folks out with church based groups, and he realized he couldn’t accomplish as much as he wanted. Who can? To look at an analogous situation, you don’t end world hunger by working at a food bank. That doesn’t mean it’s not petty as all hell to denigrate food bank workers.

Jim, you’re more than welcome to be an asshole

Whew!

Wow, defending Malkin and Sailer.

Did I? Could be. Mostly I just feel bad about making fun of all those organizers of communities. My community is totally unorganized, so I know how important it can be.

Well, Libertarian, The Great Gazoogle gives me this:

http://www.edwoj.com/Alinsky/AlinskyObamaChapter1990.htm

It is a chapter Obama wrote for a book on organizing back when he was a law student.  It might give you some insight on how the experience shaped him and his understanding of the problems of real people on the street.  I think that those are skills directly relevant to governing, especially when you are running against John “I Don’t know how many homes I own and think you need 5mil per year to be rich” McCain.

You might accuse him of “not accomplishing anything” during those years but you have to admit that the task itself is pretty massive and wonder what is even possible to expect in the way of concrete gains.  I would be willing to bet that there are quite a few people who were positively impacted by his work there.  He decided that he was gonna take himself to a community that is really desperate in a lot of ways and see what he could do to help, but it is the sort of work where the nature of it is just that gains are hard to measure.  That fact only increases my admiration for those who choose to do this type of work.

I also wonder why nobody ever asks what McCain “actually accomplished” in his military career.  How is this world better for his service, exactly?  If he hadn’t flown those planes somebody else would have and the net gain of his having been a POW seems to be mostly for his own political career.  I think the reason we don’t ask this is that our culture finds fighter pilots inherently valuable and community organizers not inherently valuable and that is pretty sad.

This world might be a better place if more people gave an honest go at improving it the way Obama did.  I reject any argument that sneers at him for giving a damn and putting his money where his mouth is about it, even if he fell short of what he would have liked to accomplish.

I get what Jim did!  “Community organizer” has the word “organizer” in it, so it’s like they’re putting bits and pieces of your community into categories or bins or folders or something! 

Things are dumb if you can make puns out of them.  Finally, that mystery of life has been solved.

LHW - food bank???

Do I earn interest on my soup?  That’s silly!

My community is totally unorganized, so I know how important it can be.

I’m wondering what you accomplished in your first job out of college.  That is if you went to college which is not a safe assumption.  If Obama helped even one unemployed steelworker find a job, he accomplished a lot more than you I’m willing to bet.

I get what Jim did!

Awesome.

I’m wondering what you accomplished in your first job out of college.

I didn’t organize any communities, that’s for sure. But I did organize the walk-in freezer.

“Things are dumb if you can make puns out of them.  Finally, that mystery of life has been solved.”

Jesse, Jim Treacher, like most Republicans, just thinks it’s beneath him to have to come over here and speak to you like you are a real person and take what you say seriously.  Same for that elitist Obama, with his “community organizing” that sounds like Marxism or something.

OTOH, if Obama had become a slumlord, or built a market where everything costs twice what it would be outside “the community”, that would be different.  Exploitation they can understand and respect…

Libertarian, Obama describes his community organizing work at length in his book “Dreams From My Father.” I don’t think he’s claiming he accomplished much, so much as he learned a lot and continues to be concerned about the plight of ordinary people.  It’s a good book.  If you’re sincerely curious about what Obama did as a community organizer, you should read it.

(To all those Rep’s claiming that the Dem’s have failed to explain what a community organizer does, I’ll simply note that you can learn more from reading books, than from banning them.)

Jesse, Jim Treacher, like most Republicans, just thinks it’s beneath him to have to come over here and speak to you like you are a real person and take what you say seriously.

Well, I figured since you guys take yourselves so seriously, you didn’t need my help. But I’ll be glad to speak to you like a real person! How are you today? I am fine.

[Sorry for the digression.]

Jim Treacher,

You can call a woman a bad mother for not forcing her daughter to have an abortion...

No, you can call a candidate a bad politician for advocating one standard for her and her family (what happens to a pregnancy is a private decision) and another for the unwashed masses (the State gets to decide if you may be permitted to continue or terminate a pregnancy).

You can, I suppose. There goes the election!

Jimbo, against my better judgment, I went over a took a look at your blog.

Wow!  That’s the kind of stuff that needs to be preserved for future historians, so if they wonder when the American Republic started its final decline, they’ll be able to document the attitudes that caused it.

And don’t misconstrue this as indicating I think you should be shut down or something.  Heavens no!  That’s the kind of stuff every American should see so we can decide just what kind of country we want to be.

I’d suggest you should get your own radio show or something, but I don’t think there’s any room for more than the 7,467 wingnut radio shows already there…

A couple of points / questions:

1.  I thought the following TNR article on Obama’s work as a community organizer was illuminating, as to what he actually did and how (at least that particular version of) community organizing views its role:  http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=2e0a7836-b897-4155-864c-25e791ff0f50

2.  Didn’t all the negative examples of community organizers come out after the Daily Kos Jesus / Pontius Pilate comments, presumably to show that if you interpreted community organizing so broadly you’d sweep in a lot of negative and positive examples?

3.  As far as it being his first job out of college, the TNR article includes some statements where Obama is relying on his community organizing as a formative experience, so it seems fair game to ask what he did and accomplished in that role. 

4.  Is Malkin correct that Obama did work for ACORN when he was a community organizer?  I hadn’t seen that anywhere else.

5.  As for Palin’s line about mayors having actual responsibilities, wasn’t this a response to Obama’s belittling that experience compared to his experience in running his campaign?  Moreover, isn’t she correct?  Any elected politician has particular responsibilities and is accountable to the people they represent.  If they fail at those responsibilities, they get voted out.  For community organizers, they don’t really seem to have a defined role or responsibilities, nor are they really accountable if they fail.

You think we’re going into a decline? But I thought Obama was going to be the president.

Calderon: 2.  Didn’t all the negative examples of community organizers come out after the Daily Kos Jesus / Pontius Pilate comments, presumably to show that if you interpreted community organizing so broadly you’d sweep in a lot of negative and positive examples?

Er, no, they came out when the RNC made a deliberate attempt on Wednesday night to make “community organizing” a bad thing. And credit to them and their flock of talking point repeaters, they got their new framing on the agenda. But it is a bit of an overreach.

It was not enough to say that such work didn’t prepare you for anything (whether that is true or not), but of course, to snarl (Rudy) and snear (Palin) the line, get the crowd LAUGHING at the work, because of course, helping individuals is so… pointless?

Here’s a counter example: suppose Obama said “being a POW doesn’t qualify you to be president”. Maybe he has used exactly those words, I know I have. But Obama or anyone can make that point without denigrating the actual experience of being a POW.

“But I thought Obama was going to be the president.”

Hell, you’re right Jimbo.  After all, Obama only faces 40-years of Republican misgovernance.  Why shouldn’t he be able to clean up all the mess and set America right in a few months.  God knows McCain could, right?…

I think it likely that Obama will be the next President.  I also find it unlikely that he or anyone will be able to undo the damage wrought by Republicanism in 4 or 8 years.  It will take decades to fix the mess Republicans have created, and there’s no way we’ll have that chance.  The damage is too severe, and there are too many people with a serious investment in making sure America remains damaged who will put up too much of a fight to fix everything that needs fixing.

“You think we’re going into a decline? But I thought Obama was going to be the president”

The fact that there is any doubt that he is going to be president given everything that has has been done by republicans in the last 8 years is the strongest evidence I can think of for a declining America.  There is something seriously wrong with a huge block of the public if they want even more years of this and/or are too racist to see who the better option is.  Decline indeed.

Republicans prove that they don’t want government programs helping the poor and the unemployed trying to get back on their feet, and they don’t individuals taking the initiative to get people together to help the poor and unemployed get back on their feet. They just hate the poor and unemployed and don’t like the idea of helping them, period.

The funny thing about Obama is that, in many ways, he did exactly what the Republicans claim they think people should do. Instead of falling all over themselves to praise Obama, they’re lashing out at him like crazed animals. art of the reason, no doubt, is because he basically shows that following up on all the things about taking individual initiative and getting involved in people helping people within your community naturally makes you a Democrat.

Republicans don’t like people who do stuff like Obama has done, and that goes to show why these Republicans, when you get right down to it, aren’t good people.

Republicans prove that they don’t want government programs helping the poor and the unemployed trying to get back on their feet, and they don’t individuals taking the initiative to get people together to help the poor and unemployed get back on their feet. They just hate the poor and unemployed and don’t like the idea of helping them, period.

Completely.

A couple years ago, when Condi spoke at commencement at Boston College, there was a group of faculty and students organizing around the event, handing our fliers and the like. I was doing it, and some punk, with his wealthy parents, said to me, “Get a job.” My reply: “I have two.”

“Oooh, you’re a worker” his dripping response. 

There is a very real contempt for folks, be they poor or black or gay or urban. 

Krugman hit it yesterday when he wrote about the McCain/Palin campaign as still playing on those anti-urban resentments, and the Daily Show hit it last night with their look at “small town” Republicans.

Modern conservatism--Bush, Rove, Reagan, Limbaugh, Coulter, Palin--is built on nothing but contempt.

Wow, defending Malkin and Sailer.  Nice one, Jim Treacher!

For his encore, he’s going to defend the KKK by trying to argue that it’s the only acceptable form of community organizing.

“Republicans don’t like people who do stuff like Obama has done, and that goes to show why these Republicans, when you get right down to it, aren’t good people.”

“Modern conservatism--Bush, Rove, Reagan, Limbaugh, Coulter, Palin--is built on nothing but contempt.”

Exactly.  This is why driftglass used to say, “You can be a good American or a good Republican, but you can’t be both...”

If you’re sincerely curious about what Obama did as a community organizer, you should read it.

He’s not.  He wants to rationalize his continuing support of Republicans while making laughable and increasingly incoherent claims to support “liberty”.

Well, wrong again Amanda.

I’m looking to see what he’s accomplished that tells me he can do this job.

The community organizing thing is always brought up as part of his resume.
I didn’t bring it up, his supporters always do.

Last weekend, I was thinking about my life accomplishments (I admit it,
I’m 55, ie. older than him, but then I’m not saying I’m qualified to be President) compared to
his.  From what I can see, if he and I sat down and compared our
accomplishments, I might come out ahead !!!

That’s kinda scary.

I’ve actually done a few things, some I’ve mentioned here.
What’s he actually done ???

From what I can see, if he and I sat down and compared our
accomplishments, I might come out ahead !!!

Really?

You started as a community organizer fresh out of college, and then decide to change course and attend Harvard Law?  You were the president of the Harvard Law Review?  You were in your state’s senate for 7 years, and then got over 70% of the vote to represent your state of 12 million people in the US Senate?

I’m impressed—you must have held at least three elected offices and run the Yale Law Journal if you have more accomplishments than Obama.  Which ones were those, again?

Well, he knows how to read, which is apparently more than you can do.

Libertarian,

Congratulations on being elected to the Senate and made the Presidential nominee of one of the major parties.  I mean, congratulations on at least that.  What state do you represent?

“Congratulations on being elected to the Senate and made the Presidential nominee of one of the major parties.  I mean, congratulations on at least that.”

Well, Libertarian would have got the nom if they were looking at talent and experience.  But because of quotas they gave to the black guy instead. 

Damn affirmative action!  It’s so unfair…

Wow, Jim is cream-cheese weak.  Jim, if you’re going to come trolling, at least try to get off a good shot or two.  Jesse can show you how.  God, even Anne Coulter can show you how.

This crap drives me up a freaking wall. 

People go “but what has he DONNNNE?!!!” and then stick their fingers in their ears while you tell them the answer or where to find it and come back a few minutes later with another round of “tell me WHAT he has DONE!!!?!!1!” as if they are alzheimer’s patients and can’t remember what you said 5 minutes ago.

Or maybe Libertarian and others are not actually interested in knowing the actual answer, otherwise they would do something to find out other than trolling liberal blogs demanding that we somehow upload this information directly into his brain without him listening to us or reading the stuff we tell him to read.

It is like an infant who is amazed by peek-a-boo because they think that if they can’t see you you really don’t exist.

As long as I refuse to learn anything about Obama’s accomplishments then I can will into existence a world in which he does not have any!

I also wonder why nobody ever asks what McCain “actually accomplished” in his military career.  ...

GumbyAnne on 09/06 at 05:35 AM

You mean besides wrecking 3 or 4 expensive airplanes and failing to accomplish however many missions he had left when he was shot down out of the last one?

I don’t know whether it is, in the long historical perspective, an accomplishment or the opposite of one, but the average fighter-bomber pilot in Vietnam wrecked zero planes (in careers that typically went on decades after that war) and completed 100 missions each.

Getting shot down in combat may or may not be a reflection on one’s worthiness as a military pilot; the enemy is after all doing their level best to bring them down.

Cracking up one plane in training may be the result of a tragic set of circumstances some or all of which were out of the pilot’s control; it is a truism among pilots and crash investigators that crashes rarely have just one cause. But despite the hellicious complications of military combat planes in particular, I think it is a rare cadet who loses one.

So I have to wonder how one who had crashed not just one but two or three was even allowed into combat as a pilot in the first place.

Oh yeah...his dad was an admiral…

And here again with 10 seconds on google I found a detailed blog post outlining a bunch of Obama’s legislative accomplishments with tons of links to other sources about the same:

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/02/obama-actually.html

You could have done this yourself.  If you can find your way to pandagon you can find a way to any search engine.  Anyone who says that they don’t know what Obama has done certainly does not know this stuff because they DO NOT CARE TO FIND OUT.  And anyone who says he does not have any accomplishments is LYING because it is a clearly demonstrable fact that he does.

Now don’t show your ignorant face around here again until you have made an honest goddamn attempt at educationg yourself about Obama’d not-at-all-mysterious record of THINGS that he has DONE. 

I got you started now GO READ.

What did John McCain do for 10 years after graduating from the Naval Academy? He graduated in 1954, but we don’t hear about him again until he’s flying jets over Vietnam in 1965.
I know he crashed a few planes because he wasn’t qualified to be a pilot in the first place.

“Oooh, you’re a worker” his dripping response.

Then you punched him in the face? Because that’s how you deal with bullies.

Biden’s already identified that kind of condescension over the past week. There was an interesting line about how Appalling and company are like the kids at school who’d say ‘nice shoes, are they your brother’s?’ I’m glad he did that. Because Biden has made the blue-collar connection between work and dignity, and how those who laugh at it are fucking scum.

And yeah, TDS’s horse’s-mouth look at small town values—no gays, no darkies, no poor people—was pretty damn telling.

“Community organizer” is comedy gold!  Let’s see how many other professions can be similarly amusing!

“Civil engineer”?  What, you’re nice to people while you’re driving the train?

“Hedge fund manager”?  What’s the deal with that?  I clip my shrubbery too, but you don’t see me braggin’ about that!

From what I can see, if he and I sat down and compared our accomplishments, I might come out ahead !!!

Have you ever noticed that the stereotypical profile of a libertarian is a person of mediocre (or, at best, slightly above average) intellect and accomplishment who is convinced of his personal superiority?

Yes, Tyro, I have in fact noticed that.

You could have done this yourself.  If you can find your way to pandagon you can find a way to any search engine.  Anyone who says that they don’t know what Obama has done certainly does not know this stuff because they DO NOT CARE TO FIND OUT.  And anyone who says he does not have any accomplishments is LYING because it is a clearly demonstrable fact that he does.

Your utterly logical and reasonable discourse is falling on deaf ears.  You are completly and absolutely right.  HOWEVER, dicklicks like Jim Treacher have no interest in doing nothing else but sticking their fingers in their ears, shutting their eyes, and screaming MCCAIN . . . OIL . . . SARAH . . . DEMOCRATS STOPPED THE DRILLING . . . OBAMA HUSSIEN . . . ahhhhhhhhh . . . NO LIBERALS . . . ahhhhhhhhh!!

<lockquote>What deserves ridicule is the notion that Barack Obama’s brief stint as a South Side rabble-rouser for tax-subsidized, partisan non-profits qualifies as executive experience you can believe in</blockquote>

weren’t Jesus and his disciples referred to as “rabble-rousers”?  also wasn’t Jesus pushing a socialist agenda as well?  Are they implying they have an inexperienced and unqualified G-d?

carp!  that’s what happens when you hit blaspheme instead of preview

Executive experience you can believe in.
Sleep in a bed with sheets.
Amend amend amend amend…

This is great.  Jesse’s argument is that Republicans are trying to belittle community organizers and make people think it’s stupid to join local volunteer groups, and Jim’s idea of a brilliant rebuttal is to...belittle community organizers and say it’s stupid to join local volunteer groups.  Good work there, Jim.

Jesse’s point is an important one, and it goes way beyond the Obama campaign.  The right has worked very hard to push the idea that there’s something either sinister or stupid about working people organizing for a greater cause.  It’s very important for them to push this idea, because grassroots organization is among the best weapons the have-nots have against the haves.  They want us apathetic.  We outnumber them.

So what did Sen. Obama do as a community organizer?

According to the Nation:
-He worked for an umbrella organization comprised of Catholic and Protestant Churches.
-His task was to serve laid-off ironworkers in the south side of Chicago, particularly in black neighborhoods.
-After a community member came to him with information that a project manager at a housing project was having asbestos removed from his office, he organized a bussing protest to downtown, that eventually succeeded in getting the apartments at the project tested and getting the asbestos removed.
-A minister involved in the organization credited Obama with helping to close the gap between Protestant and Catholic churches in the group.
-Barack Obama moved on from community organizing because he felt that he could do more good as a politician.
-As a politician, he focused on working with community groups.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070416/moberg

According to the US News and World Report,
-He focused on getting job training and other programs to support poor and working-class people.  (Now remember, this was private Christian charity being run by a consortium of Churches, something the Republicans are supposedly all about.)
-He learned the importance of going into problem-solving situations with open ears--learning about what people really needed instead of giving them what you thought they needed.  (As anyone else who has done charity work can tell you, sometimes we try really hard to ‘help’ people, giving them what we think they need, but because we do not listen first, we end up not helping or harming.  For examples of harm, google what happened when we introduced iron supplements or formula to Africa.)
-The article also mentions the asbestos situation, but notes that it was never completely solved.  Again, this is used to explain why he chose to move beyond community organizing, because he felt he could do more good elsewhere.

I don’t know, libertarian, if you’ve ever been involved in trying to help the poor, or charity, or whatever you might call it.  From my own (although limited, I am still young) experience, I have learned a great deal about problems that other people face in this country that I was insulated from due to my fortunate birth, good health, and the health and education of my parents.

I really see no value in mocking those who wish to serve and work with those less fortunate in our society.  In the context of his run for presidency, I think it probably did give him a few tools which allows him to see the world in a more nuanced fashion.  Not a tie-breaker, not the end-all be-all, but something that indicates that he chose to step outside of his own experiences and learn from what others were going through, and to try to give them what they need.

For his encore, he’s going to defend the KKK by trying to argue that it’s the only acceptable form of community organizing.

I don’t really like their racism and hatred, but the outfits are pretty cool!

and yet that rethuglican mouthpiece Michelle Malkin tells us:

Let me clarify something. Nobody is mocking community organizers in church basements and community centers across the country working to improve their neighbors’ lives. What deserves ridicule is the notion that Obama’s brief stint as a South Side rabble-rouser for tax-subsidized, partisan nonprofits qualifies as executive experience you can believe in.

What deserves derision is “community organizing” that relies on a community of homeless people and ex-cons to organize for the purpose of registering dead people to vote, shaking down corporations and using the race card as a bludgeon.

Community organizers in church basements and community centers only count a legitimate when run by the conservative christian movement (and, I can only surmise, include proselytizing)

She’s also lying--he worked for a church-run group.

Could we skip the pit-bull or only-chosen-for-being-a-woman memes, please?

They’re probably true, but they only make you look like a dickwad, Jesse.

Crissa, in her speech she called herself a pitbull with lipstick.  That’s why it is funny.

Could we skip the pit-bull ...

1. If someone is a self-described pit bull, then referring to it is fair.

2. I am in favor of anything that causes photos of gorgeous pit bulls like this one to be posted on Pandagon.

Yes, lets look at Obama’s recent experience as a Senator, not his “first job out of College”.

But, to be fair, we have to completely ignore Palin’s current job as Governor, and instead call her a Mayor over and over again.

Because acknowledging a woman’s qualifications would be racist… or something.

I’ll have to get with Obama and see why he keeps doing that.

But at least we know how he’s doing running for the VP slot against Palin… he’s not looking too bad for a VP candidate, and I think his experience will be fine, once he gains some real-world executive experience as VP…

Oh, he’s running for President?  Has anyone told him that?

Crissa, if Obama referred to himself as a rhinoceros with a jump shot, it would be hard to object to a picture of an ungulate with a photoshopped Pete Maravich jersey being used in reference to his candidacy.

Granted, it would be quite possibly the lowest point in the history of organized democracy, but still.  Rhino Kobe!

So, did Amanda get the official Obama blogger job? Oh, right.....

Community organizers in church basements and community centers only count a legitimate when run by the conservative christian movement (and, I can only surmise, include proselytizing).

Given that Obama was working for church groups, I’m starting to suspect that community organizing is only legitimate when Obama is not part of it.

But, to be fair, we have to completely ignore Palin’s current job as Governor, and instead call her a Mayor over and over again.

Tell you what—we’ll be happy to talk about Gov. Palin’s 18 months leading her state as long as you finally admit that Obama has been a US Senator for the past 4 years.  Insisting that we talk about Palin’s 18 months as governor while you ignore Obama’s 4 years as a Senator is a little one-sided, don’t you think?

as if they are alzheimer’s patients and can’t remember what you said 5 minutes ago.
--

Okay...what did Obama accomplish as a community organizer again?
I notice the new meme is that it’s only “his first job right out of college”....so I guess you might have figured out that he didn’t actually accomplish anything. He did discover that the steel workers had been grossly overpaid for what they did and they had no skills other than pushing a button and striking...so even a messiah can’t do much with that.
But, I am curious....what has he done?