Oh Amanda, but that would make sense. And we can’t have that.

Besides, they haven’t converted enough “souls” yet, gotta get us heathens on the straight and narrow to make sure they get their fast pass into Heaven.

Wow, I didn’t know that Victoria Jackson was mentally ill. Thanks for the tip.

These are the same people who hate the Jews for killing Christ, when the whole fucking point is that he was supposed to be sacrificed in order to give the gift of eternal life. You’d think they’d be thanking every Jew they met if logic meant anything to them! People this fucking stupid should be dumped on a desert island somewhere.

If Obama really is the Anti-Christ, then shouldn’t you want him to win?

No. Because in that worldview, what’s important is that THEY be right ... not that (their twisted view of the) Bible be right.

And I apologize for blogwhoring here when I’m a newbie, but folks concerned about such issues need to have a heads up on the next issue that will sweep the country, just in time for a politically-important election.

Well said, Argh.

Wow, I remember hearing that Victoria Jackson was Born Again and clashed with her SNL castmates over her beliefs, but I didn’t realize she was that removed from reality.

One thing I’ve learned from the brilliant ongoing evisceration of Left Behind on Slacktivist is how American Rapture believers associate the Antichrist with the promise of “peace” and, like, talking to people from other countries.  LaHaye in particular uses some obscure Biblical passage to instill distrust and fear of the UN and the whole idea of international diplomacy.  It really is quite a depressing mindset.

It’s like the general question of why Christians who think they’ve lived good lives should feel unhappy about being killed.  You can just respawn in a much better location!

I’m a church-goer but what’s sad (and scary) to me about this fundamentalist crowd is that the certainty required of fundamentalism comes from a fear-based place. And fear is the absolute opposite of faith. If you look at religion historically, fundamentalism is always accompanied by persecution and violence—and I mean that of ANY belief structure, not just Christianity.

Amanda, I DO think they believe it. But as I said before, they peddle in fear, not faith. For them, it’s a “with us or against us” equation. To want Obama to win would mean they were working on behalf of the forces of evil. And even if that brings about the resurrection, that’s still a no-no. No one wants to be Judas.

It always struck me as hypocritical that Judas has gone down in history as the biggest villain of humanity. But if Judas hadn’t betrayed Jesus, there would be no salvation. So it’s the same sort of twiested logic, right?

Anyway, I don’t think most of these folks have given it that much thought. How many of them even read the Bible? Probably a very small %.

You know, part of the problem is that most of this shit isn’t even Biblical. The whole “rapture” narrative is not in the Bible. It’s a half-baked story cobbled together from the delusions of a couple of 19th century crackpots.

There’s an excellent book debunking the whole Raputre story by Barbara Rossing called “The Rapture Exposed.” Very interesting reading.

Neil:

It’s like the general question of why Christians who think they’ve lived good lives should feel unhappy about being killed. You can just respawn in a much better location!

Neil, if you’re having problems with your Christians re-spawning, you need to kill the bosses faster. Get some better DPSers.

They don’t believe it. They wish they could, and they try as hard as they can, but most of them aren’t clinically insane, and can’t wrap their brains around a genuinely crazy idea. They are therefore unworthy of being Raptured, since they would be shocked out of their minds if it actually did happen. They would therefore prefer not to have their faith tested yet, until they feel more secure in it.

According to Tim LaHaye the Antichrist can’t come from America because he’s got to come from someplace obscure, like Romania. And that’s why Obama can’t be the Antichrist.

It was sometime in the early nineties.  I worked for a major record distribution company and that job sent me out to shows.  A lot of shows.  My girlfriend, my sister and I were out at a show at the excremental house of blues and who do we run into at the vip but victoria jackson.  jackson was, to put it mildly, shitfaced.  Hey, a lot of people were off their nut drunk in there so it wasn’t out of character.  Somehow jackson latched onto my sister and they spent the rest of the night talking with all three of us kind of watching out for her (she was that drunk).  A the end of the night, as I recall, we stufed her in cab, gave the driver some money and said, “take her home”.  For some time after that she bugged my sister to become her p.a.

Anyway, the point is, or was, I think, jackson seemed like a decent person but frankly, a little close in reality to the ditzy characters she often played.  Out by yourself and wasted enough to be falling down drunk doesn’t show good judgment.  I didn’t realize that inside the bad judgment and questionable intellect was a bigot and a complete freak.

Good thing my sister never took that job.

People believe a lot of weird shit about Obama.  I think I said this in another thread here but I had one of my clients go off on some apocalyptic scenario if he is elected.

People, in general, are fucking stupid and ruled by, well, I have no idea what most of them are ruled by but I know it’s not rational, objective thinking.

Just sayin.

Actually, the Anti-Christ is supposed to “deceive the whole world” so if you think you’ve identified the Beast ahead of time—you’re automatically wrong. So Obama’s off the hook.

Also, only 144,000 absolute saints are supposed to get a free pass from Armageddon. The rest of the “Rapture” is Christian mythology, like Wandering Jew, or the age of the Earth actually being in the Bible.

Oh, and hell yes, people believe shit like this.  And wilder stuff.  Don’t kid yourself.

Beale has it right.

If they believe Obama is the Anti-Christ, then voting for the Man of Sin would be a sin itself, because it means they have declared themselves in the Anti-Christ’s camp. That alone would be enough to get them left when the Rapture hits.

Joseph DeLa Rinah once felt sorry for the Devil and gave him a pinch of tobacco. He ended up in Hell for it. Imagine how much more dire the consequences of a whole VOTE.

Also, just to put a finer point on it: anyone who believes crazy-assed e-mails easily debunked on Snopes has more issues than just their religion.

The answer is that christian doctrine states that there are many antichrists before the big bad mutha of em all.

Alan

Southern Beale, my favorite part of the email debunking is where it points out that the Bible could not possibly mention Islam.

Southern Beale, my favorite part of the email debunking is where it points out that the Bible could not possibly mention Islam.

Considering Muhammed lived in the 7th century, of course not.

Of course a book of prophesy about the future could have correctly predicted that Islam would spring up as a religion a few hundred years after the book was written.  I suppose it didn’t in this case, but if you believe in things like true prophesies, then you wouldn’t have a problem believing that Revelation referred to Islam hundreds of years before the religion was founded.

Especially since, if you believe in Revelation, you probably don’t know anything at all about Islam (except of course, that they all want to kill us for our freedom).

These are the same people who hate the Jews for killing Christ, when the whole fucking point is that he was supposed to be sacrificed in order to give the gift of eternal life. You’d think they’d be thanking every Jew they met if logic meant anything to them! People this fucking stupid should be dumped on a desert island somewhere.

Aargh, as a Jew, I’ve always wondered this one myself.  What if the people had said, “Release Jesus!”  Then what?  How does atonement take place?  Didn’t God send his only begotten Son, etc. etc?  If you want to blame anyone, blame God—he’s the one who came up with the blood-atonement scheme in the first place.

One of my wife’s uncles is a really, really smart and prominent Catholic theologian, and, within that genre, not a right-winger.  I’ve always meant to ask him about this if I get a chance, but I have to admit it’s a little intimidating to be like the only Jew at a family gathering with 100 Catholics (that’s not an exaggeration, there really are that many in the family) asking that question.

Sounds to me like the fundys are truly unhinged. How else could they confuse Obama with the real antichrist: Dick Cheney?

Anyway, I don’t think most of these folks have given it that much thought. How many of them even read the Bible? Probably a very small %.

IIRC, Victoria Jackson appeared on a Bill Mahrer show with Michael Schermer and was unaware that the Bible had been written by actual people and not put directly onto parchment by God Himself, which gives you a hint of the kind of fine theological education you get at a Bible college.

OK, I’m just impressed to know that Snopes has started an entire subcategory devoted to debunking Obama whisper campaigns.  I don’t know whether that’s a good thing or not, but it’s certainly impressive.

you probably don’t know anything at all about Islam (except of course, that they all want to kill us for our freedom)

Well, yes, Peep.  I mean, that is a direct quote from Revelation.  In fact, I believe the verse the email refers to is this:

“And lo, the antichrist shall be a member of ye tribe of peoples that want to kill us for our freedom.  So let it be written, so let it be done!  And then, the angels came unto him and said, ‘Hark!  His years shall number two score and seven in the year of his rise, and he shall speak with the gilded tongue of an Illinois state senator.  He is change you can believe in.  His fist meets with the fist of his bride, justice carved in ebony, with ten horns and nine tails.’  Yeah, though I walk through the mountains of Colorado, he is LORD.” 

Wow, for the first time, when I hit blaspheme it will really mean something!

Yeah. The anti-Christ is part of their invisible buddy’s master plan so you’d think they’d be on board.

Hey xians! When the rapture comes, can I have your stuff?

According to Tim LaHaye the Antichrist can’t come from America because he’s got to come from someplace obscure, like Romania. And that’s why Obama can’t be the Antichrist.

Well, don’t forget—Obama was born in Hawaii, Kenya, and Indonesia.  He was from everywhere.

I remember hearing that Victoria Jackson was Born Again and clashed with her SNL castmates over her beliefs

THe clash was probably more over the fact that she became less funny when she became a Xtian fantasist.

And after reading that nutty screed, they’re probably thinking the same thing I am: that poor, poor woman ...

The answer is that christian doctrine states that there are many antichrists before the big bad mutha of em all.

So Obama is one of them. He’s a vital part of the process and should therefore be ushered into office.

when the Rapture comes, there’ll be more room for the rest of us.

Wow. I had no idea. Was she always a neo-John Bircher, or did she acquire teh crayzee more recently?

I know my stance might keep me from LA jobs, since (almost) the whole town is liberal…

That’s rich. Because we all know that Clint Eastwood, John Malkovitch, Bruce Willis and Ahnold have/had such a hard time finding work.

Ms. Jackson fails to understand one thing. Studio execs are out to make money, preferably lots of it. They couldn’t give a rat’s round how “out there” an actor’s beliefs are (Heeellllooooo Scientology!), as long as s/he puts butts in seats.