So when do they kick out all the children of birth-control-using parents?

I’m saddened to be a catholic right now.  This diocese is just being stupid but it is in Colorado so it doesn’t surprise me a great deal.  The catholic schools around here have a large portion of black & protestant children in them to keep them open.  Under those principles they would have to reject the protestants.  I just find it kind of funny that the priest gives this statement in his blog on the matter.

It is relativism, meaning that nothing is important anymore and everyone can have their own interpretation of what is goodness and truth.  This kind of tolerance, which is a decidedly secularist invention, seeks to separate all moral discourse from public life.

Last time I checked, relativism is the stupid man’s argument against disagreement.  Regardless of the stance of homosexuality this man is arguing he is right and shouldn’t have to be tolerant of other people.  Tolerance is not just avoiding them, it’s acknowledging their right to exist and dealing with that.  By excluding this kid they’re being intolerant on the basis of parental dealings.  Course in a previous statement in the blog he states he doesn’t want to conflict the child by making it seem as if his parents were bad, which is worded in a strangely non-backhanded compliment way that makes it almost seem tolerable if not for the fact he doesn’t want to stand up and say it really is ok.

Breslin also said he “chose to protect the faith over doing what would have looked like the loving thing to do.”

It’s a good thing that the god this guy claims he worships never said anything like, “Remove the log from your eye before you worry about the splinter in your brother’s” or “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” or he would look like the most massive hypocrite in the world.

And, really, are we back to punishing children for the actions of their parents?  Really?  I guess next up is refusing to baptize the babies of unwed mothers because, hey, the mother should have kept her legs closed and held out for a ring if she was that worried about her child’s immortal soul.

Breslin also said he “chose to protect the faith over doing what would have looked like the loving thing to do.”

“looked like the loving thing to do….”

Let’s be honest, the “love” offered to LGBT people by the Roman Catholic Church is worthless.  It’s about like the “love” a wife beater offers to his spouse while he’s pummeling her, “for her own good.”

So do the children of cheating spouses get expelled? What about the children of single moms?

At least he had the moral strength to do make the hateful choice, instead of taking the easy way out and going with “what would have looked like the loving thing to do”.  The pope will be so proud.

I think it’s very big of Breslin to admit that the church is about bigotry and control, and all the ‘love’ crap is really just window dressing.  Not many people are willing to admit that sort of thing in public.

So when do we kick out the Catholic priests who’ve raped and beaten children? Oh wait..

Um, once the omnipotent, all-knowing Creator of All That Which Is has a gender, I’m not sure why one expects sanity.

Funny—my baby brother claimed that what he learned from Catholic school was that Atheists were smarter, on average, than Christians.  So atheists = okay, but “sinning” people (possibly even “sinning” Catholics) = not okay?  WTF?

“Parents living in open discord with Catholic teaching in areas of faith and morals unfortunately choose by their actions to disqualify their children from enrollment.”

At least that’s one kid who will never ever make the mistake of choosing the wrong parents again.  Sometimes even Jesus (or his holy proxies on earth) needs to practice Tough Love, and kick the child out into the cold. 

Maybe they can deny the child the Eucharist too, and formally excommunicate them too.  After all, what is the value of one child’s soul compared to the all important need to “protect the faith over doing what would have looked like the loving thing to do”?...

Heh, what is the value of one child’s soul AT ALL, once it’s passed through that dirty dirty vajayjay?

“It’s deeply troubling to see any school remove a child from their educational program simply as the means of rejecting that child’s parents.”

Where has he been? Ol’ Jehovah is big on visiting the sins of the parents on their children. Gotta keep up that whole Fear of God thing, doncha know.

No, no, you’re getting this all wrong. This child is LUCKY to be released from the hateful, mean-spirited indoctrination of a Catholic education. We should be celebrating another child freed from ignorance and cruelty.

“This child is LUCKY to be released from the hateful, mean-spirited indoctrination of a Catholic education.”

If the kid’s parents had pulled them (or avoided Catholic schooling altogether), that would be one thing.  But if they valued that education, to have the Archdiocese kick the child out after determining their parents don’t live up to the church’s “high” standards?  That sucks.

For one thing, I cannot believe this is the only child of gay parents in America attending a Catholic school.  So does that mean they should all be kicked out?

And the questions RE other parental habits/beliefs are not misplaced either.  Should some Bishop be able to toss kids from school just because he has determined their parents don’t live as he likes?...

Yeah. This Jesus guy “ate and drank with outcasts and sinners.” This is right there, featured very prominently in the Gospels. I heard it most Sundays at Anglican Church in Canada, and I’m sure the Roman Catholic church is aware of it being in their own bible as a fairly oft-quoted and important little bit of information.

While I find it completely ridiculous that it should be this way, sadly in many ways LGBTs are outcasts in our society. So for a church that recites this statement of belief every single Sunday to deny anybody seems very very strange to me. Especially to deny a child because the child’s parents belong to a marginalized group. The marginalized members of society are exactly the people that Jesus told his followers to care for. What is wrong with these people?

Whoops. In my second paragraph, I was thinking the phrase was part of the creed (which it isn’t) because I heard it so much. It’s not necessarily every Sunday, but it’s a pretty famous quote.

You have an authoritarian organization in which people are free to join, or not join.  If they join, they accept the authority of the organization, and shouldn’t complain when that authority bites them in the ass.  This has always irked me about Catholics.  If you don’t agree with god’s personal representative on earth, become a Protestant.  That was kinda the damn point, after all.

Heh, what is the value of one child’s soul AT ALL, once it’s passed through that dirty dirty vajayjay?

Nothing.  That’s the whole point of the “getting saved” thing.

It’s like vaginas are the Gateway of Sin.  The pwecious baybeez are all innocent and pure and perfect as long as they haven’t passed through one yet, but after they have, they need that cold ritual bath to make sure they don’t end up in Limbo.

Allienne,

As a matter of theology, Catholics are allowed to dissent from *anything*—their conscience is the last arbiter, although dissension should be taken seriously.  In that regard, Catholicism is less doctrinaire than many protestant organizations.  Not that you’d know it from the way this pope talks about dissent.

Sorry, Ismone, but they are not allowed to dissent on some things and remain Catholics in good standing.  Besides being denied communion, some forms of dissent are heresy.  As an American, you are free to believe, for example, that the church ought to allow women to be ordained as priests.  Under church law, however, if you are aware that the church considers this point to be infallibly defined under the magisterium, then you should be denied communion.  Denying divine revelation, on the other hand, is heresy in the catholic church, and grounds for excommunication.

If you don’t like the rules, don’t join the club.

@Allienne Goddard, it’s not that the archdiocese refused Communion to the girl or her parents. They refused to let her go to their school - a school which probably educates non-Catholic kids as well as Catholic kids whose parents don’t conform to (some of) the Church’s standards.

Don’t join the club… Or be born into it?  What, Allienne?

This isn’t about joining the club, it’s about paying money to some people in the club to educate your kid when you think other local educational options aren’t right for the kid.

Next: catholic social services announces that they will not allow divorced people in their soup kitchens.

I believe the relevant quote is

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.’”

If you don’t like the rules, don’t join the club.
Comment #22: Allienne Goddard on 03/08 at 11:05 PM

Then the club needs to enforce the fucking rules fairly.  Take parents married for ten years and only 1 kid - get a signed affidavit from the doc that they are infertile because otherwise they are likely living in disaccord (sic) with the church (using bc).  Or, how about an affidavit that the child was conceived via natural means, because the pope is squeamish about petri dishes. 

I am soooo thrilled to be a recovering catholic who doesn’t have to associate with the majority fuckwits of the RCC like Alliene on anything like a regular basis anymore.

I am not now, nor have I ever been, Catholic; in fact, I’m an atheist.  I just don’t understand why people are willing to be a part of an organization if they don’t agree with the aims, dogma, and structure of that organization.  Those who have pointed out that the child didn’t have a choice are perfectly correct, but is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.  I intended this to apply to the Catholics mentioned in this post, not the parents or child.  I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear.  My first reply was simply to respond to Ismone’s assertion that Catholics are free to dissent on any issue they wish.  This is simply not the case under church law. 

In any case, I am not trying to derail the thread, and regret that my comment appears to be doing so.  I will read replies, but not comment further on this point.

Hey, they were going to toss my nephew out of a Catholic school because my husband wasn’t going to confession for living in sin with me (our legal but non-Catholic wedding wasn’t a marriage at all to them). In the end, he had to be removed as the nephew’s godfather in order for the boy not to be expelled.

If the DH ever wants to attend church again, he’s going to look for an acceptably liberal Episcopallian Church. The personal affront to us isn’t even the main reason, but it couldn’t help them.

Don’t join the club… Or be born into it?

This is exactly the sort of thing Dawkins has been on about the last couple years. Kids can’t help it their parents belong to hate-based fairy-tale believing cults. They shouldn’t be forced into it either. Once they’re adult, they can choose to join such clubs, but they shouldn’t be forced into them as children.

My first reply was simply to respond to Ismone’s assertion that Catholics are free to dissent on any issue they wish.  This is simply not the case under church law.

But it is.

Yes, they can do mean things to you for dissenting.  But even excommunication over dissent doesn’t necessarily mean you are going to hell.  In fact, the hierarchy will tell you that excommunication is for the excommunicant’s benefit.  If you are clear in your conscience, God will know.  And that’s Catholic DOGMA, as little as the red beanie crowd likes it. 

JP2’s little temper tantrum over women priests didn’t stop or solve that problem.  It’s not remotely settled, which is part of the reason American nuns are under 2 Inquisitions at the moment.

This Jesus guy?  Said however you treat the least of my brethren is how you treat me.  He said that those who claim they love god, but don’t live it, will get their much-surprised asses rejected from heaven.  Told a bunch of parables about ditching the “good” son or “good” lambs who behave properly in order to go after the wayward son/lamb.  Kicking a kid out of school in order to make a point about hating their lesbian parents?  Pretty much the opposite of the Gospels, but right on track with B16’s wishes for authoritarian control.

I am so, SO glad my baby’s godparents are my brother and his husband. This fact makes me smile with delight every time I read about anti-gay BS from Church officials. Too bad, Benedect, Father Breslin, and all your prejudiced pals, my congregation let it happen and you’ll never undo it.

Others have already mentioned the issues of birth-control-using parents, parents who have been divorced, and single parents who are still allowed to send their kids to school there.  What about all the parents who had premarital sex too?  The only difference is that the vast majority of people have had premarital sex* and used birth control, and very large numbers have been divorced.  If they excluded all of those people, then the school would lose all of its money.  Homosexual parents who are seeking Catholic school for their children are still a small percentage of their client base, so it’s easy for the church to take out their hatred and frustration on them while still rolling in plenty of money.

*I’ve always wondered: does it count as premarital sex if you never intend to get married?

I am so, SO glad my baby’s godparents are my brother and his husband. This fact makes me smile with delight every time I read about anti-gay BS from Church officials. Too bad, Benedect, Father Breslin, and all your prejudiced pals, my congregation let it happen and you’ll never undo it.

Nice. Beats my son’s godparents. They’re just into BDSM, which I found out when attending a party at their place and found their dungeon when looking for the desserts. Which is where the desserts were, along with several people using said dungeon.

It’s not just parents who do things the church disapproves of, in theory it should be any parent who is not a practicing roman catholic. Acknowledging the “bishop of rome” as the supreme head of the christian church and god’s representative on earth is pretty much part of doctrine too. So a nice presbyterian couple should have their kid bumped too. Ain’t. Gonna. Happen.

I don’t get why the Catholic Church is so much more against gay parents than they are against divorced parents, parents who use birth control, etc etc. I think a religion has a right to kick out people who don’t follow their religion, but if they’re going to do it they should do it equally—if your parents committing a mortal sin means you can’t go to catholic school, the enrollment should be a lot smaller. After all, crazy abitrary rules are a big part of religion, but when you have the rules all written down like the catholics do, you should enforce them evenly.

However, I can’t imagine why gay parents would want their kid going to Catholic school and getting brainwashed into thinking their parents are evil and going to hell. It seems like a really tough position to put a little kid in. “We’re going out of our way to send you to this school because we want you to learn from the teachers, but don’t believe them when they earnestly tell you that god says your parents are especially bad sinners who are going to die and be tortured for eternity.” Can’t you see that kid going through some really painful phase where they try to reject their parents, or try to convince them to become straight? If they don’t go through that phase, how could they not hate the school? I could sort of see the logic behind allowing a high schooler to go to Catholic school for the academics (if they are better than the public school) because that kid is old enough to understand the distinctions involved. But a preschooler isn’t going to understand why their teachers are saying their parents are going to hell, and it just seems like a cruel situation to put them in.

So basically, I don’t approve of either side.

@#27: “I am not now, nor have I ever been, Catholic; in fact, I’m an atheist.  I just don’t understand why people are willing to be a part of an organization if they don’t agree with the aims, dogma, and structure of that organization. “

*BRAINWASHING*.

I recommend the book _Leaving the Fold_ to anyone who wants to understand Christian brainwashing, at which Catholics are the experts.  The key setup of the brainwashing is to make people feel very unhappy if they leave the church—more unhappy than if they just ignore its instructions, in fact.