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(Devoted Catholic and heterosexual) Psycho Santa opens fire at ex in-laws’ home

I’ve been purposely avoiding cable news over the holiday, but when I signed on to put a couple of posts in the queue, I saw the horrific story about the—psycho Santa who opened fire in his in-laws’ Covina, California home, killing 8 (a ninth person is missing). I’m sure you all have seen the massive coverage of this by now.

Deranged 45-year-old Bruce Jeffrey Pardo, who was otherwise known as a “nice guy” was incensed over a divorce and job loss. In a clearly premeditated act, he goes to his in-laws’ house on Christmas eve and does this:

He showed up wearing a Santa suit and bearing what appeared to be a present. An 8-year-old girl inside the residence, perhaps having a natural reaction to the sight of Santa bearing a gift, opened the front door. That was when Pardo opened fire, shooting the girl in the face. She was, fortunately, said to be among the survivors.

Pardo then entered the home, firing his handgun all the way. And inside the “present,” police believe Pardo carried what the Times termed a “a home-made pressurized device” that the killer used “to spray some kind of flammable substance.”

So the house eventually erupted in flames. In spite of emergency services flooding the cul-de-sac where the tragedy occurred, Pardo got away. He showed up again around 3:30 Christmas morning, some 25 miles away in Sylmar. Bruce Jeffrey Pardo was dead from a bullet to the head.

Among the missing and presumed dead are Pardo’s ex-wife and her parents Joseph Ortega and Alicia Ortega.

An article also noted that Pardo was a devout Catholic, btw. I’m not sure what that has to do with anything other than to point out he seems to have forgotten about “thou shalt not kill,” or that the civil divorce (there’s no report of an annulment, so by his own faith, he was still married in the eyes of the church) somehow sent him over the edge. Or is the idea that he was a practicing member of his church cannot be reconciled with the fact that he was an amoral tinder box ready to explode?

Pardo, as in the past, had volunteered to serve as an usher at midnight mass on Christmas Eve but he never made it to Holy Redeemer Catholic Church.  Jan Detanna, head usher at Holy Redeemer said, “I’m just–this is shocking.  He was the nicest guy you can imagine.  Always a pleasure to talk to, always a big smile.”

CNN also reports that a pipebomb exploded last night in a rental car used a day earlier by Pardo.

I’m really tired of the conflation of religious faith with morality and all sorts of virtues; being a church usher has nothing to do with having morals,principles, empathy or stable mental health. Do you think religious faith would have been mentioned by the reporter if he had been Muslim, for instance, or an atheist, or a member of the FLDS, to name a few?.As one of my readers noted:

Straight Male “lifestyle”

Every time some asshat fundie starts talking about how horrible life will be if LGBT people actually achieve equality, we need to bring up sh*t like this. Every time we hear some claim about AIDS being a gay disease and showing how horrible gay men are, let’s bring up “men” like Pardo. Let’s bring up all the straight men who beat and abuse (physically or psychologically) their wives and girlfriends; then, when those women actually get the courage to leave, treat these women as property to be reclaimed or avenged or destroyed.

How many times a month do you read in your local paper about some guy who kills himself and his ex? How many such “murder/suicides” occur on an annual basis? How can anyone claim that LGBT people are a threat to civilization when the bullsh*t myth of masculinity that is spread through our society continues to create results like this? Almost all murders, rapes, robberies and physical attacks in this country are at the hands of straight men and I, for one, am sick of being told that I am somehow less than these violent felons. 
by: CPT_Doom @ Fri Dec 26, 2008 at 10:23:56 AM EST

 

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Posted by Pam Spaulding on 03:54 PM • (65) Comments

I think about this very thing, Pam, every time I pass a certain point on my commute.  There are four or five crosses there, one big, the rest small.  They are right at one of those giant steel support frameworks that support huge, over-the-freeway signs. 

A nice, moral, churchgoing man put his sons in the SUV and rammed that thing at speed, killing them all.  He had recently lost his job.  Not only was he churchgoing, but he and his family were active members.

I can’t help but think about his wife—the mother of those murdered children—and think how tortured she is going to be for the rest of her life.  Some family values, eh?

Comment #1: BetsyTX  on  12/27  at  04:50 PM

Cue some asshat going off on how vile we are to profane the memories of the dead with a cynical attempt to exploit this tragedy for political purposes in 4, 3, 2, 1…

Comment #2: smartalek  on  12/27  at  05:06 PM

This story pisses me off every damn time I read about it. I am so fucking sick of freaks who think the only way to react when their mighty manhood gets challenged in any way, is to go on a shooting rampage.

Comment #3: Scott  on  12/27  at  05:23 PM

All Papists are as mad as snakes and should be burnt at the steak for hairisy.

Comment #4: RUGGED IN MONTANA  on  12/27  at  05:30 PM

This guy fits the profile of the typical Rampage Killer—men (typically) who go on killing sprees out a wounded sense of honor or a thwarted sense of entitlement.  They are typically better educated and more economically successful than average; often, however, a setback in personal or professional life will trigger the rampage.  The motive is usually revenge against those who have “wronged” the killer, and these sprees usually end in suicide.  Often, but not always, they betray some indication of their intentions beforehand. 

It’s funny, but I’ve never heard of an openly gay rampage killer.  I’m sure they must exist, but you’d think that the righties would make a big deal out of it if there were one.  Maybe it has something to do with openly gay men being free to shed traditional notions of masculinity.  Anyone else have any ideas?

Comment #5: Captain Bathrobe  on  12/27  at  05:34 PM

Do you think religious faith would have been mentioned by the reporter if he had been Muslim, for instance, or an atheist, or a member of the FLDS, to name a few?.

Absolutely religion would have been brought up.
If he were muslim, it would have been brought up to show how SCARY those islamo-fascists were.
If he were atheist, it would have been brough up to show how moral less people are without Daddy Sky-Fairie condeming everyone.

The reason his Catholic religion was brought up was so his church members could defend his “character.”

No reporter would go to a Wiccan circle and interviewed fellow pagans had this person been a witch.

Comment #6: cynickal  on  12/27  at  05:44 PM

Captain Bathrobe, your post ignored one significant factor; misogyny. These guys tend to be wife-beating MRA types who do any number of things for revenge. This guy was such a shitty father than when he was ‘babysitting’ his son the kid partially drowned and left him brain damaged. The father was found watching TV while his son drowned. The boy was left brain damaged and paralyzed, and despite the fact that Pardo abandoned the child, he claimed him as a dependent on his taxes for seven years.

These guys want revenge on the women who left them. They’ll kill their own kids to get back at her. One of my readers cited a horrific case where because a guy had ‘only’ beaten his wife, he was ruled by the judge—no doubt a fine, non sexist real man——as not being a danger to his daughters. Next time he got visitation he phoned the mom and killed the girls while he had her on the phone, then went out and got a big tattoo that said, “Daddy’s Angels” over pictures of the girls. The press accounts sympathetically talked about their deaths as if he had nothing to do with it.

  This was not a case about job disappointment. This was about hatred of women and resentment at their ability to get away and get justice.  Don’t pretend otherwise.

Comment #7: ginmar  on  12/27  at  05:48 PM

Reminds me of Harlan Ellison’s take on rampage/spree/serial killers:

“He’s a good Christian boy.  Goes to church every Sunday, sends half his paycheck home to his mother.  Nice and quiet.  I have no idea why he killed 147 people, cut off their privates, and sent them in a mailing tube to his Senator, but he’s a good Christian boy, he is.”

******

All snark aside, I wasn’t at all surprised to find out that there was a messy divorce involved.  This is clearly a man who saw his wife as property and couldn’t live with the idea that she wasn’t.  “If I can’t have you, no one can” is one of the most sickening phrases in the language.

Comment #8: Ellid  on  12/27  at  05:58 PM

This was not a case about job disappointment. This was about hatred of women and resentment at their ability to get away and get justice.  Don’t pretend otherwise.

All true, though unemployment or any other major problems in his life just made it more likely he’d resort to murder. Abusers are very good at convincing themselves that anything that goes wrong in their life is somehow their partner’s fault, particularly when that parter is trying to leave them.

Comment #10: Cass  on  12/27  at  06:03 PM

Religion would definitely have been brought up if he had been Muslim or atheist - but in a different way. A non-Christian religious outlook would have been presented as an implied cause or corollary to his rampage, while his Catholicism is clearly presented as a reason for confusion.

Because religious Christians are presumed safe, while atheists or religious Muslims are considered on step away from immorality or violence at any moment.

Comment #11: Lymis  on  12/27  at  06:06 PM

So you think it’s ok to paint an entire group via the depraved actions of one member?

Nobody painted any group in its entirety, they just said this:

Almost all murders, rapes, robberies and physical attacks in this country are at the hands of straight men

which is true, and it justifiably makes you wonder what’s up with the culture of such a group.

Comment #12: Cass  on  12/27  at  06:18 PM

Pam:

So you think it’s ok to paint an entire group via the depraved actions of one member?

No, moron. I’ll spoon-feed it to you. Chew slowly, okay?

Pam is not saying that all straight people are murderers, nor that they are particularly dangerous. Her point is that gay people are said to be worse people than straights, and yet here is one example among countless others of a straight person committing a horrendous crime most gay people would never consider.

It follows that there can be no implications of a person’s morality from their sexuality (or, as a side note, their religiosity), and the lazy media needs to stop relying on such implications to flesh out stories.

Comment #13: asdf  on  12/27  at  06:20 PM

Another thing to think about: imagine if he were Muslim. I be this would be getting 1,000x the coverage and all of a sudden be classified as terrorism.

Comment #14: Ben D.  on  12/27  at  06:25 PM

No, moron. I’ll spoon-feed it to you. Chew slowly, okay?

Thank you, asdf. It goes without saying that some of the asshats out only have the brain power to crap in their Pampers.

Comment #15: Pam Spaulding  on  12/27  at  06:34 PM

I’m a white male, and sometimes I cross the street to avoid white males.

Comment #16: jon  on  12/27  at  06:39 PM

To trot out one of my favorite phrases, this is why straight people shouldn’t be allowed to have children.

Comment #17: Ursula  on  12/27  at  07:10 PM

Let’s see…Beans cites one case where a teenage girl allegedly killed another girl who wouldn’t date her, and two cases of child abuse involving lesbian families.  May I politely ask just how any of these cases are comparable to a divorced man deciding that he’s going to punish his ex-wife by attacking a Christmas party, torching a house, and shooting an 8 year old child in the face?  And just how, pray tell, do these cases stack up against the thousands and thousands of cases each year where an angry man commits an act of violence against a woman who defies him?

Comment #18: Ellid  on  12/27  at  07:10 PM

The father was found watching TV while his son drowned.

Gads.  And all the news reports I’ve seen described his “ugly” divorce.  No mention of who was responsible for the divorce being so ugly, the reporters simply left it up to the reader to assume that both parties were responsible or that the bitch of an ex-wife was solely responsible.  But, in the end, it was likely the fault of the guy who let his child drown and then murdered several people, after shooting an 8-year-old girl in the face.  Christ.

 


It reminds me of a horrible column I read about John Muhammad soon after he was caught.  The writer tried to put the blame on Muhammad’s actions on the family court system since that system denied him custody and visitation of his children.  This was after the same writer describing Muhammad’s previous domestic abuse of his ex-wife and girlfriend and after mentioning that the reason Muhammad lost custody was because he kidnapped his own children.

The correct supposition is not:  decent man loses his children, ergo decent man murders a bunch of people.  The correct supposition is:  unstable man with a history of violence doesn’t get his way, ergo unstable, violent man murders a bunch of people.

Comment #19: keshmeshi  on  12/27  at  07:19 PM

Beans, all kinds of people are murderers.  Citing three stories about crimes committed by lesbians is not exactly impressive.  Nor are any of the ones you cited equivalent to mass murders such as this, which are typically committed by white males.  Considering that you can pretty much count the number of successful American female mass murderers and spree killers on one hand ... no, please, tell us again how the lesbians are all out to murder us.

Comment #20: Jennifer  on  12/27  at  07:57 PM

This was not a case about job disappointment. This was about hatred of women and resentment at their ability to get away and get justice.  Don’t pretend otherwise.

I wasn’t trying to pretend anything.  I was just making a general statement about rampage killers—not in any way defending what he did.  Actually, I think misogyny, both individual and societal, fits perfectly with the whole theory of rampage killers as enraged over denial of privilege—in this case, the privilege of controlling his wife and family. 

Also, I did not know the part about him allowing his child to drown.  Obviously, he’s a sick fuck who should have reached out for help rather than taking out his anger and frustration on innocent people.  Still, it is useful to try to understand to roots of rampage killings in order to prevent them from happening in the future.  I think that male entitlement/privilege goes a long way towards explaining why these people do what they do.  OTOH, few things in life are caused by one thing alone.

Comment #21: Captain Bathrobe  on  12/27  at  08:04 PM

“Considering that you can pretty much count the number of successful American female mass murderers and spree killers on one hand ... “

Known ones you mean. Anyone who has studied the issue including law enforcement will tell you that the number is much much higher but due to decades or rather centuries of the viewpoint that women couldn’t engage in such acts any evidence implicting a woman (even a confession, eyewitness account by a survivor) was delibertly tossed out or ignored.

Comment #22: tootiredoftheright  on  12/27  at  08:10 PM

He’s not sick. Wife beaters tend to be very calm, very logical about what they do. Wife beating works. It gets him obedience, sex, quiet, chores done, silence, and so forth. They get away with it. With these guys, their heartbeat actually drops when they’re beating the woman they blame for their problems. One guy killed his wife because she made him a casserole and he screamed, “The bitch knows I like my meat plain!” Beating women works. All they have to do is call her a nagging fishwife and everybody sides with him, poor dear.

Don’t ‘other’ these guys. They’re not sick. They’re just farther down the male behavior continuum than other guys who don’t hit, but who maybe cheer on guys who do, or make excuses for them, or who write biased newspaper stories about them, or who side with their buddies even if they know he’s an asshole. People don’t notice anything wrong with these guys because what they do to women just doesn’t matter or else it’s a private matter. A man’s home is his castle, after all.

Comment #23: ginmar  on  12/27  at  08:50 PM

One thing that bothers me about the link Pam posted:  the comments.  They swing heavily toward the “evil bitch took his money and his dog, so he had every right to go psycho.”  Someone purporting to be Pardo’s old girlfriend actually said he was a nice guy until everyone took advantage of him because he was making good money!

I’m sorry, but no one, NO ONE, deserves the treatment that Pardo meted out to his former wife and her family.  Money and possessions are not worth such carnage.

Comment #24: Ellid  on  12/27  at  09:34 PM

This is so sick and horrible. Yeah, I’m sure he was a model Catholic….except the fact that the Bible is pretty specific about KILLING PEOPLE seems to have conveniently slipped his mind. (The bit about shooting people in the face is never directly addressed in the Bible, though generally it goes without saying.)

Want to shock me? Tell me about a Quaker murder. THEN I might bat an eyelash.

Ginmar is right—these guys aren’t drooling psychopaths. They are cold, calculating monsters who look normal as can be. They are GOOD at what they do, which is maintaining a sense of entitlement and manipulating the women in their lives into believing it as well. The law can’t do much unless the women themselves persecute (which they don’t, because it was their own fault, after all). And even if they do, it doesn’t always work so well.

What a sick son of a bacchae. I hope he enjoys prison.*

*By enjoy, I of course mean ‘enjoy being ass-raped every hour on the hour.*

Comment #25: Chai Latte  on  12/27  at  09:44 PM

Unfortunately, the coward committed suicide after becoming burned in the fire that he set in the home.  So he won’t be in prison.

Comment #26: Blitzgal  on  12/27  at  09:55 PM

I cringed when I saw the guy lived in Montrose, which is a northern suburb of my city.

And I love how bean thinks that one person killing their significant other is exactly the same thing as opening fire at a family party while dressed as Santa Claus on Christmas Eve and burning the place down as the survivors try to flee.  Yeah, that’s exactly the same thing.

From the accounts I’ve read, he had his whole escape planned—they found him with $15,000 in cash strapped to his body.  If his incendiary device hadn’t malfunctioned and burned him, he probably would have gotten onto that plane and vanished instead of shooting himself in the head.

Comment #27: Mnemosyne  on  12/27  at  10:01 PM

Adding to all of the above, the asshole booby trapped his rental car with an incendiary device to injure responders. This is something you see in people who really want high body counts. Also, the fixation with fire is significant. I actually saw some asshole admiring the devices he came up with.

  It’s interesting he had that amount of cash on him. He owed his ex $10,000 in the divorce settlement. They’d been separated two years. I wonder what he did during that two years.

Comment #28: ginmar  on  12/27  at  10:10 PM

This story was covered at Get Religion: Here.  I commented that it was likely that there was a relationship between this guy being a devout Catholic and his view of women.  Please check their response to my comments.

Comment #29: Karen  on  12/27  at  10:40 PM

Of course no one has yet mentioned how this dickwaddbag falsified his job application to claim educational attainment that he lacked ... he claimed that he had a master’s degree when he never even completed a Bachelor’s!

Comment #30: Ms Kate  on  12/27  at  10:57 PM

Religion would definitely have been brought up if he had been Muslim or atheist - but in a different way. A non-Christian religious outlook would have been presented as an implied cause or corollary to his rampage, while his Catholicism is clearly presented as a reason for confusion.

Quoting Lymis for truth.

Comment #31: Rebecca  on  12/28  at  12:46 AM

“I actually saw some asshole admiring the devices he came up with. “

To be honest most people wouldn’t have been able to come up with those devices as well as how to use them without being trained/educated, or being fairly clever with a lot of time on their hands. So yeah it is to be admired like it or not. The police if they have any sense will be investigating how he got those devices or made them. There may be another arrest or two in the future.

“Also, the fixation with fire is significant”

May have to do with his religious views.

Comment #32: tootiredoftheright  on  12/28  at  01:00 AM

I wish he hadn’t had the guts to turn the gun on himself. I wish he’d lived with those burns until they got infected, then turned gangrenous, until he finally died in a cloud of pain and septic shock.

Comment #33: Samantha Vimes  on  12/28  at  01:06 AM

This story is close to home for me, literally. I grew up there and had many friends who attended Holy Redeemer.  Every time I read a story like this it’s just a reminder that there is still so much work to be done dismantling the male entitlement that leads to these kinds of murder sprees. 

And to those asshats who want to blame Pardo’s victim, his ex-wife, for being a gold-digger: they really need to check their facts.  In the most recent divorce settlement she received the $10,000 and the dog while he got the house.  I’ll bet he fought her tooth and nail on everything for no other reason than to exert control.  They probably would still be in court if he had not lost his job in July (and therefore lost access to the income to keep fighting in court).

Comment #34: history_mom  on  12/28  at  01:30 AM

I would caution placing too much stock in his Catholicism. It’s relevant, yes, but only as one of several enabling factors. It’s obvious we’re talking about a deeply screwed up, highly misogynist control freak, and while conservative Christianity in general tends to egg on people like that, who’s to say that there wouldn’t have been another factor allowing him to rationalize his killing spree? (Keep in mind the phrase “thwarted entitlement”.)

That there was prior violence and abuse in this guy’s history though—that doesn’t surprise me in the least.

Captain Bathrobe:

Andrew Cunanan. There’s probably been others, but he springs most obviously to mind. (And thanks for reminding me of the above phrase; it doesn’t just apply to Randroids.)

Comment #35: Brian X  on  12/28  at  05:46 AM

Talk about a War on Christmas!

Comment #36: UglyFace  on  12/28  at  06:17 AM

Power and Control…

This guy was a devout schmuck.
Showing up doesn’t mean you listen or take any messages to heart.

He didn’t even get the traditional role of “male protector” right. He let one kid drown, then pretended he wasn’t his, until, of course, tax time. Thought he had control/dominion over his wife because she didn’t make as much money as him…surprise! Then takes the coward’s way out by upping and quitting his job (why else no severance OR unemployment???) to get out of paying her money he could have paid if he had , oh no, budgeted his money. THEN, he shoots a kid in the face, because his ex-wife shouldn’t be happy with $10k, a ring, and a dog. no shocker there, denying support of his own child because the kid was “damaged.” And then, surprise, surprise, running.

No bible stories I ever heard had even the devil killing kids.

Comment #37: gaia  on  12/28  at  06:52 AM

Gaia, I’m not sure if you were being sarcastic, but seriously have you read the old testament?

2 Kings 2:23-24, God sends bears to kill 42 children because they made fun of some old patriarch’s baldness.  God’s big on killing kids for not showing ‘proper respect’.

Not to mention the whole flood story, how many kids died in that one for having parents who didn’t do what God wanted?

Jeremiah 15:7 God threatens to kill all the children if the Israelites don’t do what he wants.

Jeremiah 18:21 God orders Jeremiah to wage war against their enemies and kill the children by starvation.

Seriously, that took about five minutes.  The old testament sort of just goes on like that.

Comment #38: Arianna  on  12/28  at  11:09 AM

Anyway, as a former Catholic I know Catholics don’t really send a lot of time scouring the bible like some other denominations do and at least where I was from we spent more time on the new testament, but you can sort of see the kind of thinking this reinforces: God is above man, but man is above woman as God is above man, therefore if God can kill people (even children!) on a whim, then it must be OK for a man to kill whose who are supposedly subject to him.

Not necessarily his thought process at the time, but that sort of thing sits at the back of the mind as a sort of silent reassurance.

Comment #39: Arianna  on  12/28  at  11:15 AM

Her point is that gay people are said to be worse people than straights

Thay are….

The American Journal of Public Health has published a detailed study of battering victimization in the male homosexual community (December 2002, Vol. 92, No. 12). The probability-based sampling of “men who have sex with men” (MSM) focused on four geographical areas (San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York) and resulted in 2,881 completed telephone interviews.

Based on these responses, this first-of-its-kind study determined that the rate of battering victimization among gay men in the target group (men over 18 who had engaged in homosexual activity since age 14, or who identified as gay, homosexual, or bisexual) is “substantially higher than among heterosexual men” and also possibly higher than the rate for heterosexual women, according to the study.

The researchers report a high rate of battering within the context of intimate homosexual partnerships, with 39% of those studied reporting at least one type of battering by a partner over the last five years.

In contrast, only about 7.7% of heterosexual men of all ages report physical or sexual partner abuse during their entire lifetimes. (Lifetime rates of abuse are generally higher than those within a five-year period.)

Figures were also compared with studies on heterosexual women who had been victims of violence within marriage or while cohabiting with men, also within five-year periods. Victimization for homosexual men (22%) was also substantially higher than for heterosexual women (11.6%).

The study, conducted by researchers with the Center for AIDS Prevention Studies (University of California, San Francisco), Whitman-Walker Clinic (Washington, D.C.) and Prevention Research Center, School of Social Work (University of Washington, Seattle), examines three specific types of gay male-to-gay male assault: psychological/symbolic battering (verbal threats, ridicule in front of others, forced substance abuse, destruction of property, stalking), physical battery, and sexual battery (forced sexual activity).

Demographic information collected included each respondent’s age, educational level, race/ethnicity, employment status, income, sexual self-description (gay, homosexual, bisexual, etc.), HIV status, and city of residence.

The research interviews covered the most recent five years of the respondents’ lives, revealing that, within that time frame, 34% of the urban males interviewed had been victims of psychological/symbolic abuse, 22% had been physically victimized, and 5.1% had experienced sexual abuse. Overall, 39.2% reported one or other type of battering, of which 18.2% reported being victimized by more than one type of battering over the five-year period.

In terms of personal statistics concerning the victims, it was found that homosexual males age 40 or younger were much more likely to be the victim of abuse by a same-sex partner than those age 60 or over. Those with graduate and professional degrees were also less likely to be the target of such violence than men with a college degree or lower.

Men infected with the AIDS virus were more at risk for psychological and physical abuse than their HIV-negative peers. HIV-infected men were also more likely to be victimized in a sexual manner.

According to the study, none of the battering outcomes appeared associated with racial or ethnic identity, income level, self-described sexual orientation, or the city of residence.

The study states that the most significant factor in male same-sex partner violence is age: a 3.8% rate for 18-29 year olds, 3.9% among those between the ages of 30 and 39, and 2.7% in the 40-49-age bracket. Men under the age of 40 were found to be six times more likely to report abuse than those 60 or older, with subjects between 40 and 50 being four times as likely.

The conclusion arrived at by the researchers, based upon these figures, is that the rate of abuse between urban homosexual men in intimate relationships “is a very serious public health problem.”

The complete study may be found at
http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/full/92/12/1964

Comment #40: Michael Mcgreevy  on  12/28  at  11:19 AM

McGreevy, you moron, they’re men. Being gay does not mean that a guy has not been infected by male privilege. Those are cultural values you’re talking about, and it’s your culture.

  Significantly, you care only about men as victims—-of women, no less.

Twit. Why don’t you go back to whatever MRA board you usually slime at?

Comment #41: ginmar  on  12/28  at  11:33 AM

I should just add… not all gays batter. However the rate IS much higher among gay than heterosexuals.  I am not saying that all gay people are batters, nor that they are all dangerous.

Comment #42: Michael Mcgreevy  on  12/28  at  11:42 AM

mcgreevey, you need to learn to read AJPH ... or stop quoting things you know not the least fuck about.  That isn’t hardly a representative sample of homosexuals, and you should know that if you were not so stupid.  I also have access to the archives and the original article?  Distortion much there? You are cherry picking and throwing out stats, but you have no comparison group of straight males so very carefully selected to base your claim of “worse"on.  I’m sure Ginmar’s got the “other side” of that worse down hard and pat.

Nobody here denies that intimate partner violence knows no sexual preference boundaries.  However, straight males prevail in the sheer body count and aggregate damage statistics hands down - or is that fists clenched - and no amount of distortion on your part of a scholarly article that is but a longitudinal study of a very selected population will change that.  Got?

Comment #43: Ms Kate  on  12/28  at  11:43 AM

Same-Sex Violence

Domestic violence occurs within same-sex relationships as it does in heterosexual relationships. The acronym LGBT is often used and stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender.

11% of lesbians reported violence by their female partner and 15% of gay men who had lived with a male partner reported being victimized by a male partner.

Patricia Tjaden, Symposium on Integrating Responses to Domestic Violence: Extent and Nature of Intimate Partner Violence as measured by the National Violence Against Women Survey, 47 Loy. L. Rev. 41, 54 (2003).
Of the LGBT victims who sought services from the New York City Gay and Lesbian Anti-Violence Project, 36% of clients in 2003 and 38% of clients in 2004 filed police reports regarding intimate partner violence.

Diane Dolan-Soto & Sara Kaplan, New York Lesbian, Gay, Transgender and Bisexual Domestic Violence Report, at 6 (2005), available at http://www.avp.org/publications/reports/2005nycdvrpt.pdf.
Eighty-eight percent of victims in 2003 and 91 percent of victims in 2004 reported experiencing prior incidents of abuse, with the majority (45 percent and 47 percent, respectively) reporting having experienced more than 10 prior incidents.

Diane Dolan-Soto & Sara Kaplan, New York Lesbian, Gay, Transgender and Bisexual Domestic Violence Report, at 5 (2005), available at http://www.avp.org/publications/reports/2005nycdvrpt.pdf.
One survey found that same-sex cohabitants reported significantly more intimate partner violence than did opposite-sex cohabitants. Among women, 39.2% of the same-sex cohabitants and 21.7 of the opposite- sex cohabitants reported being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by a marital/cohabiting partner at some time in their lifetime.

Patricia Tjaden & Nancy Thoennes, U.S. Dep’t of Just., NCJ 181867, Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence: Findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey, at 30 (2000), available at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/181867.htm
15.4% of same-sex cohabiting men reported being raped, physically assaulted and/or stalked by a male partner, but 10.8% reported such violence by a female partner.

Patricia Tjaden & Nancy Thoennes, U.S. Dep’t of Just., NCJ 181867, Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence: Findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey, at 30 (2000), available at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/181867.htm

According to the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs:

6,523 incidence of lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender violence were recorded in eleven distinct cities and regions across the USA and Toronto, Ontario. 44% of the victims were men and 36% were women. This represented a 13% increase over the 5718 cases reported in 2002 by the same agencies and includes six reported deaths in the context of actual or suspected LGBT violence. Arizona reported one death and New York City reported five deaths.
4,964 or about 79% of the new incidents were reported in Los Angeles. The number of LGBT incidents in other cities and states include Boston (290), New York City (501), San Francisco (388), Colorado (139) , Chicago (65), Columbus, Ohio (46) , Pennsylvania (19) , Burlington, Vermont (21), Tuscon (64).
5,374 (82%) of the victims of domestic violence reported to the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs identified themselves as gay; 575 (9%) were cases in which the victim declined to specify a sexual orientation or it was not recorded; 263 (4%) identified as bisexual; and 44 (0.6 %) were not sure or questioned their sexual orientation.
Of the 42% incidence of domestic violence where race was recorded, 1,211 or 44% were white, 684 or 25% were Latino, 413 or 15% were of African descent, 153 or 5% were Asian/Pacific Islander, 125 or 4% were multicultural; just under 36 or 0.01% were indigenous/first people and about 0.01 were Arab/Middle Easterners, Jewish and others.

Nat’l Advoc. for Local Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Communities, Nat’l Coal. of Anti-Violence Programs, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Domestic Violence: 2003 Supplement - An Update from the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs (2004), at 3-8, 10, available at http://www.avp.org/publications/reports/reports.htm

Comment #44: Michael Mcgreevy  on  12/28  at  12:15 PM

I’m sure he was a model Catholic….except the fact that the Bible is pretty specific about KILLING PEOPLE

Well, and Catholics can’t get divorced.  Guess he decided mass murder and eternal damnation was preferable to being denied Communion for the rest of his life.

Comment #45: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  12/28  at  12:36 PM

Wait, what?

The researchers report a high rate of battering within the context of intimate homosexual partnerships, with 39% of those studied reporting at least one type of battering by a partner over the last five years.

In contrast, only about 7.7% of heterosexual men of all ages report physical or sexual partner abuse during their entire lifetimes. (Lifetime rates of abuse are generally higher than those within a five-year period.)

So they asked gay men if they’d ever been the victim of abuse by a partner, and then they asked heterosexual men if they themselves had ever abused a partner, and the fact that fewer straight men admit to abusing a partner than gay men admit to having been the victims of abuse proves that gay men are abused more?

I would say that Michael is the stupidest person on this thread for not understanding why it makes no sense to compare self-reports from victims of one group and self-reports from abusers of another to come up with an abuse rate, but at this point I think we can safely say that Michael’s not (just) stupid, he’s a bald-faced liar.

Here’s a clue, Michael:  you basically looked at reports from African-Americans about how many racist incidents they experienced, compared them to reports by white Americans about how many times they’ve done something racist to a black person, and reported back that racist incidents are rare because very few white people say they’ve done something racist.

Comment #46: Mnemosyne  on  12/28  at  12:51 PM

Or is Michael’s statistic saying that since most gay men are abused by men, and most violence between straight couples is women being abused by men, clearly gay men are more abusive?

Yeah.  Still makes no sense whatsoever, unless you’re also trying to argue that apples and oranges are exactly the same thing, because they’re both fruits.

And I also love how one-on-one partner violence by gay men is exactly as bad as a straight man going to his ex-wife’s house while they’re having a Christmas party, shooting everyone in sight, and burning the house to the ground, killing 9 people.  Because apparently being gay is automatically so much more morally wrong that a straight man killing 9 family members is no big deal when you look at how many gay men are abused by a partner.

Comment #47: Mnemosyne  on  12/28  at  12:57 PM

Mnem, it just shows that this post hit a nerve.

Comment #48: annejumps  on  12/28  at  12:58 PM

Wasn’t there just a post on how doing actual live-human instead of computerized interviews resulted in women reporting of a much higher rate of domestic battery and sexual assault?

Comment #49: preying mantis  on  12/28  at  01:37 PM

I hereby submit that Michael Mcgreevy’s recent “statistics” posts have demonstrated that he violates the stick rule, and thus he should be banned.  On top of being either a sick fuck to seriously post something like that, or a troll doing it for the lulz.

I shake my head every time I hear a story like this, and it seems to me that either there’s an uptick in entitled, unstable bastards who apparently think that it’s okay to murder their ex-wives/girlfriends and then off themselves, or else it’s just getting reported more.  More reports of (usually) straight, white men who think that taking out a bunch of other people in malls or workplaces before committing suicide is nifty.

I get the underlying issues that Pam and others have described, but is there another factor that’s driving up the number of incidences?  Or is it as simple as these sick fucks hearing about something like this on the news, then figuring that it’s a good idea and imitate it?

Comment #50: Karinna A.  on  12/28  at  01:41 PM

Again, McGreevance, you don’t know shit about research designs, bias, confounding, sample size, etc.  There are huge differences between highly selected groups and general experience of the entire community.

If you surveyed persons who had a history of incarceration for violent offenses, and found that they had high rates of intimate partner mayhem, would you generalize that to the entire population?  No?

so why are you taking a VERY SMALL and STATISTICALLY NON-REPRESENTATIVE sample of the gay community and doing the same?

Because you don’t know what you are doing other than cutting and pasting, that’s why.

Comment #51: Ms Kate  on  12/28  at  01:46 PM

My God, how could we have missed this! It is a scandal! Who would believe that people who use Domestic Services and Anti-Violence project services have a higher incidence of violence in their lives?

Whodathunkit?

Moron.

Comment #52: Lymis  on  12/28  at  02:29 PM

“I get the underlying issues that Pam and others have described, but is there another factor that’s driving up the number of incidences?  Or is it as simple as these sick fucks hearing about something like this on the news, then figuring that it’s a good idea and imitate it?”

The economy.  Job-loss and/or severe financial problems are frequent triggers for men who murder their families or go on family-oriented spree-killings.  A huge percentage of the population is experiencing unemployment, foreclosure, etc., so we’re seeing a cluster of these sorts of crimes.  The crumbling economy is also placing significant stress on affected marriages and the fueling divorce rate, so we’re also seeing a cluster of the sort of murders associated with women leaving abusive partners.  Oh, and losing their job and what access they had to healthcare can result in otherwise stable and functional mentally ill people losing access to their medication, or to medication that works without crippling side-effects.

Comment #53: preying mantis  on  12/28  at  02:34 PM

“I get the underlying issues that Pam and others have described, but is there another factor that’s driving up the number of incidences? “

Yes sin

Comment #54: Michael Mcgreevy  on  12/28  at  03:26 PM

There’s no such thing as “sin,” you semi-literate nescient.

Comment #55: Nobody in Particular  on  12/28  at  03:53 PM

What is your point? Are you a total idiot? The man was clearly a psycho, and here you are debating his religiosity and his heterosexuality. As if these factors have anything to do with what drove the stupid bastard to his demented end. Did you happen to know that Jeffrey Dahlmer was gay?? And so is Michael Jackson, but that does onot explain his fucked-up-ness.

Comment #56: Elfina's Brother  on  12/28  at  06:40 PM

My heart aches for the victims of these horrible crimes, especially that little girl who has to recover from the trauma of being shot in the face by a man she thought to welcome into her home.  May the dead rest in peace.  May the living find healing. 

How on earth can you trust anybody after something like that happens to you, or to your child?  It’s hard enough to pick up the pieces and go on, if you think the danger comes from something Other, from madness or something identifiably outside your safe community that you can turn to for comfort and support.  (Even with “It turns out that this sort of person does not belong in the community.”)  But if you believe anybody inside your community can be such a terrible threat…how can you go on at at all?

I don’t know how Christians can cope with the problem of having murderers in their community.  I can tell it’s hard to point out the problem from inside the community—it must feel terribly threatening, at a time when the community is already feeling threatened.  Many of the comments above are from non-Christians with a somewhat adversarial relationship with Christianity.  (Completely understandable, considering the history.)  I am just at a loss about how to change things.

Comment #57: Adrian  on  12/28  at  06:56 PM

Adrian, what is most amazing is that the family has connected with the perps mom in grieving.  She wants to liquidate all the assets left by her son and transfer them to the children of the parents who were slaughtered.  She has also spoken with Sylvia’s son, who still welcomes her as family.

Comment #58: Ms Kate  on  12/28  at  07:10 PM

Michael,

Your “sin” post just outed you as a Concern Troll (not that it wasn’t obvious anyway).  If you honestly cared about domestic violence between gays and lesbians as a public health issue, you would advocate increased services to help victims of DV in these underserved populations.  Well, how about it?  Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?

Comment #59: Captain Bathrobe  on  12/28  at  07:23 PM

Brian X,

Thanks.  I’d forgotten that Cunanan had killed several others before offing Versace.  I suppose he qualifies as a rampage killer, though his victims were spread out over several weeks. 

Ugh.  Bad business all around.

Comment #60: Captain Bathrobe  on  12/28  at  07:28 PM

Feeding the troll, okay, but also worth mentioning is that one reason so many statistics of Bad Things seem to skew toward showing gay people in a bad light is that we have to self report. People are assumed to be straight unless they say otherwise.

So if you go to your doctor and have heart trouble, you’re a straight statistic. If you have a sexually transmitted disease, you’re a gay statistic. For that matter, if you come up healthy, you’re a straight statistic.

One of the most popular debunked anti-gay (“the gay lifestyle is unhealthy”) “studies” compared obituaries in gay publications during the AIDS crisis with obituaries in mainstream newspapers, on the utterly ignorant assumption that all gay people were reported as such in their obituary and that all dead gay people get reported in gay publications. “Oddly” enough, all the gay people were in their 30’s. Couldn’t be because any gay people survived into their 90’s but weren’t reported as such by their families. Nope. Had to be because otherwise healthy gay men just keel over at 35.

Healthy gay couples, especially when we can’t marry, simply aren’t going to show up as gay in any statistic. Gay couples or individuals using public services are only going to show up AS gay if being gay matters to the statistic, as in sexually transmitted disease or domestic violence. The gay people looking for financial advice or child care or anything else aren’t going to show in your statistics, as (duh) are all the gay people who aren’t showing up looking for aid at all!

Comment #61: Lymis  on  12/28  at  07:49 PM

“I suppose he qualifies as a rampage killer,”

Serial Killer would be the more apt term although he would be one of the shortest ones in recorded history. Rampage killers don’t tend to wind up on the FBI most wanted list for two months also spacing out each kill either by a few days or weeks or months isn’t something a rampage killer does.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/cunanan/madson_5.html

Comment #62: tootiredoftheright  on  12/28  at  10:46 PM

You know, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if it was truly an “accident” that this sicko’s son happened to wander off and end up in the pool.  I wonder if his mom hadn’t come home at that time if the father would have finished the kid off.  This guy has huge warning signs all over.  First his kid is almost killed (while on his watch) then the mom has to take him to court to get support (yeah the jerk was really broken up… about the money).  Then he claims the kid on his taxes even though he hadn’t seen him since the court case.  To top it all off, he never told his new wife he had a kid.

Comment #63: Vail  on  12/28  at  11:10 PM

What is your point? Are you a total idiot? The man was clearly a psycho, and here you are debating his religiosity and his heterosexuality. As if these factors have anything to do with what drove the stupid bastard to his demented end.

So I guess you haven’t been keeping up on the literature about serial killers and mass murderers if you think their actions are completely random and have absolutely nothing to do with larger societal forces.  You might want to do a little reading and familiarize yourself with the topic.

Comment #64: Mnemosyne  on  12/29  at  02:03 AM

I believe Cunanan was not openly gay and they think he targeted an openly gay man.

One factor I think contributes to some of these usually straight people going nuts and killing their families is that unlike gay people straight people can accidentally aquire families.
I say that not to demonize either side but I think it does change dynamics.
I know a lot of people who have found out they were unplanned and it really messed them up. A plus side to gay parents is everyone of their children knows they were wanted by the parents., while a lot of straight couples are not very happy or prepared for their “little miracles”.
I’m sure a lot of people wake up and find themselves in lives they didn’t want and don’t know what to do about it and snap. Probably not what happened here or every time, but it’s something to ponder.

Comment #65: Amanda  on  12/30  at  06:31 PM
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