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Doin’ it in hard times

A couple of items, one a little silly and one totally not.  First of all, the not-silly item: Single-minded, obsessive anti-choice nuts are trying to leverage our economic hard times in order to—-what else?—-force more women to give birth against their will.  Because what this country needs when feeding and housing people is getting iffy is more people to house and feed.  Groups are trying to pressure states into cutting off funding for Planned Parenthood, citing economic woes as a reason.  Partially, this is because anti-choicers believe, against all evidence to the contrary, that they’re performing abortions on every single woman who walks out the door.  Really, even if you slip in and out in under 5 minutes to give them a couple of bucks for a bag of condoms, the stress of the occasion probably forced one of your eggs to give up hope.  Or something like that.  They’re a bit fuzzy on biology in any sense. 

If I were to propose that the best thing to cut to save state money is a program that improves worker productivity, and saves us money by preventing STDs, unwanted pregnancy, cancer, and by catching cancers while they’re still small and much more manageable, then you’d laugh in my face.  “You’re right!  Let’s cut programs that get $5 return on every dollar we spend.  And then let’s take the money we would have spent on Planned Parenthood, wipe our asses with it, and set it on fire!”  Brilliant.  But of course, the anti-choice nuts are so singularly obsessed with punishing people, especially women, for fucking, that they never stop to realize that every person “punished” in this way adds to a social problem that costs us all.  Because you know who else pays when someone is afflicted with an unplanned pregnancy or an STD that they have to deal with?  At bare minimum, their bosses and other co-workers who have to cover for them when they miss work.  And, of course, if their problems start to get really expensive (like HIV), then the costs that get spread around get astronomical.  The fuckers aren’t the only ones punished for fucking.  We all are.  Of course, most of us are fuckers, so I suppose it’s a full circle.  But even crazy anti-choice nuts practicing non-consensual abstinence have to pay.

The argument is that Planned Parenthood has too much money to spend saving the rest of us even more money.

But the new lobbying effort, backed by conservative Christian groups such as the Family Research Council, focuses more on economic than moral concerns. The campaign paints Planned Parenthood as a wealthy organization that doesn’t need taxpayer help. Planned Parenthood reported record revenue and a $115 million budget surplus last year, and it is building a network of elegant health centers to attract middle-class clients.

Here’s another great policy idea: Let’s punish non-profits who show fiscal responsibility by slashing their funds.  If applied properly, this system could eventually mean that the only non-profits eligible for government funding are the ones who can’t do anything right, which means a few groups dedicated to wipe-then-burn uses of funding, and of course crisis pregnancy centers.  By the way, you know what budget surplus is sure to be eaten up by an economic downturn in 2009? Well, basically everyone’s.  Thank god some people save during flush times in order to have money on hand during hard times.

But what’s really going on here with this move is that the anti-choice movement is desperately clinging to one of their all-time favorite myths, which is that abortion is an “industry”, and that if it weren’t so profitable, then no woman would ever get one.  We addressed that myth in this video:


RH Reality Check: Framing Reproductive Rights from RH Reality Check on Vimeo.

Of course, the problem with this myth is that while there are regular, for profit clinics that provide abortion, Planned Parenthood is a non-profit.  Which means no profit.  Which sort of destroys the argument right there.  The entire surplus is going right back into the 2009 budget. 

Also, they’re operating under the Hyde Amendment.  They can’t spend any of their government funding on abortion.  Which I think should be a solid reminder that this really isn’t about abortion at all.  That’s just a cover story for the fact that they’re trying to shut down women’s health clinics that provide contraception.  Because they’re against that, too.  And probably STD screening and safe sex education, too.

Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine, who has said he opposes abortion but doesn’t want to ban it, has vowed to hold firm against cutting Planned Parenthood’s funds.

Which is the only logical thing to do if you really do have moral issues with abortion.  If abortion itself is the problem, Planned Parenthood is your best friend because they work harder than anyone at preventing the cause of upwards of 95% of all abortions—-unwanted pregnancy.  But if you’re bothered more by women having sex “without consequences”, then of course you want to cut off Planned Parenthood and force the abortion rate to go up to punish the fornicators.

Now for the more fun story about doin’ it in a downturn.  Judy Berman at Broadsheet had a puzzling blog post criticizing a rather silly but harmless enough blog called The Clothes That Got Me Laid.  Now, I’ve only perused a bit of the clothes blog, but I’m amused by the idea, because it captures a common enough trope in the single and randy world. I remember a friend of mine who had a pair of pants she swore up and down were her lucky pants in this department.  We discussed this phenomenon in depth, since these were attractive but not outrageous pants.  They fit well, looked good, but weren’t like skin tight or anything.  Like her other pants, basically.  Was it that she felt more confident in these pants?  If so, was it because they’d worked before?  Or was it an ineffable pants quality?  Did she make sure to wear them when she was going out on dates where she was totally game?  I like the idea of a blog dedicated to hashing this sort of thing out.

But Judy Berman is concerned about the blog. 

Now, I know this is all in good, stupid fun, so I’m not going to get all bent out of shape about it. But I do find it annoying. There’s just something pathetic about the idea that sex appeal is something you can go out and purchase, whether the cash you’re shelling out is for breast implants or a $372 pair of riding boots. (Never mind that a recession seems like a particularly inappropriate moment to push the idea that consumerism leads to fulfillment.)

At the heart of what bugs me about the Clothes That Got Me Laid is the lip service it pays to third-wave feminism. Contrary to popular stereotype, the movement isn’t just about wearing makeup and sleeping around. It’s about individuality, freedom and personal agency. Could someone remind me again what those three things have to do with decking yourself out in other people’s outfits because you don’t have the confidence to snag a bed buddy all by your cute, smart, witty self?

It’s true that you can’t buy yourself sex appeal or style.  But you nonetheless have to buy yourself clothes, and so yeah, you do have to spend money on your style.  How much, of course, varies.  And I fail to see how this blog reflects any kind of movement feminism.  It appears to be a blog about clothes.  Because one is a feminist doesn’t mean that one can’t have interests that don’t directly pertain to feminism.  I would hope no one thinks I’m trying to pass off, “Cute shoes” as a feminist statement.  (By the way, this sort of thing is exactly what made me write the chapter in my book about how there’s no good shoes for feminists, because everything you wear is Making A Statement.)  I will say that the issues around clothes and make-up are third wave feminist issues, but mostly because I think a lot of third wave types like myself tend to believe that self-decoration is a pleasure in itself, and one that has both been pushed on women until it’s a chore but also one that men have largely been deprived of.  But the act of ogling cute clothes itself is not necessarily political. 

That said, I have to say Berman’s instructions to be cute, witty, and smart without doing anything such as reading a blog about style to perhaps educate yourself on at least the cute factor is fucking intimidating.  Look, only .5% (if that) of cute, witty, and smart ladies just rolled out of bed that way and never had to strive.  What’s great about fashion blogs is that they give you an opportunity to look around, see what you like, hear what other people have to say about that, and then develop a style.  Most of us can’t just go, “Tah-dah!” and look perfect and unique without trying.  Fashion blogs democratize something that usually is supposed to defy democratization.  The vast majority of us don’t have any game or style through genetics, but what we can do is create these places where everyone can share a little of this and a little of that and everyone reading can slowly get better.  This blog is clever because it takes it to the next level—-it’s based on reader submissions and there’s even a rough measurement system of whether or not you got laid.  Okay, it’s a little silly and there’s no guarantees, but it’s still a fun way to learn, right?  Better than going through fashion magazines that just churn out the latest trends without ever seriously considering if they’re something that could work for you, the reader.

Courtney Martin’s book “Perfect Girls, Starving Daughters” talks a lot about how young women feel this relentless pressure not only to be perfect, but to appear to be perfect without effort.  That’s immediately what repulsed me about Berman’s post, because she bought right into that tendency to tell young women that there’s something wrong with you if you have to work to become what you want to be, instead of just able to be that without any effort.  Developing a style is like developing any kind of taste.  You have to work at it and experiment and, god forbid, share information with others.  Nothing comes without work. 

And I think it’s insufficient to tut-tut and suggest that trying to look good is frivolous and therefore should be beneath a young woman.  Life without frivolity is not worth living for most of us.  Going on dates, looking cute, flirting, sleeping with boys and thrilling yourself—-the problem with these things is not with them so much as they have been considered both mandatory for all women whether they like it or not and also the sole thing that women should do, instead of care about careers or politics.  But I like the idea of a world where men and women are both free to be serious minded people who also have fun looking cute and flirting and screwing around if they want to.

As for the recession era concerns, clearly the solution is for someone to start a blog called “Secondhand And Sale Clothes That Got Me Laid”.  Most of my clothes fit in that category, so I can say by default if nothing else that I think this is a rich topic for frivolous blog mining. 

 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 08:09 PM • (127) Comments

As for the “not-silly” post, I would have to say that I am not at all surprised that the “pro-life” groups would try to use ANY excuse to force women to live their lives they way THEY think is best.

As for the “silly post”, as a guy, I’m not sure I have “clothes that got me laid”. I’ve never been very flashy and am not particularly well built, so I suppose for some of my partners, my “look”, as it were, would have to play some role, no? (aside from my obviously super-winning-extra-dope presonality)

Comment #1: Mark  on  12/10  at  09:21 PM

But of course, the anti-choice nuts are so singularly obsessed with punishing people, especially women, for fucking, that they never stop to realize that every person “punished” in this way adds to a social problem that costs us all.

Eh, they probably do realize, at least some of them; they just don’t care. God Will Provide, and if he doesn’t, well, you’re just not good enough.

Comment #2: annejumps  on  12/10  at  09:29 PM

Partially, this is because anti-choicers believe, against all evidence to the contrary, that they’re performing abortions on every single woman who walks out the door.

It probably has a lot to do with Planned Parenthood’s penchant for trying to help girls obtain abortions illegally, as well.

BTW, why are you guys avoiding Blagojevich? If he were Republican, you’d be all over that.

Comment #3: Sharon  on  12/10  at  09:34 PM

The price of your freedom is my freedom. It doesn’t get much more simple than that and still they don’t understand.

Comment #4: Akheloios  on  12/10  at  09:35 PM

This post is particularly funny to me because on two different threads on two different blogs that I’m following right now, obnoxious types are going on and on about how irresponsible it is to have kids when your economic situation isn’t good - and extending that to things like people who got laid off in the middle of their pregnancies and didn’t have enough money saved up to pay COBRA. So if bad economic times like this are a terrible time to have a kid and a great time to cut funding to Planned Parenthood ... I think you can see where you’re going.

Comment #5: chingona  on  12/10  at  09:35 PM

God, someone in Sharon’s life please tell her that regurgitating right wing talking points is not a legitimate substitute for doing the hard work of learning to think.

Sharon, the choice of what to blog about for those of us who do actually know how to think usually involves knowing if we have anything useful to say.  And I’ve got nothing besides, “He fucked up.  What a moron.”  Now, I know this is hard for you to understand, since I doubt you’ve said a useful thing in your life.  But for those of us who are capable of it, it is important not to be spouting off for no reason whatsoever.  But I do understand that if you were restricted to the rule where speaking meant saying something worth hearing, you’d never utter another word in your life.

Comment #6: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/10  at  09:36 PM

If Amanda had someone in her life, she should have them tell her that writing bullshit press releases for Planned Parenthood is no substitute for actually doing something worthwhile with her life. But then, I guess she wouldn’t be able to see PP as a victim rather than perpetrators of criminal activity.

Started that Blagojevich post yet?

Comment #7: Sharon  on  12/10  at  09:40 PM

Ooh, touchy, touchy AM. Somehow, I think if it were, say, Larry Craig or Mark Foley, you’d have found something useless to say. Of course, since you dare not use the same level of bile on Blago as you would on a Republican, I guess that’s why you think blathering about poor ol’ Planned Parenthood is “something useful to say.” Do you get paid by the post for these press releases?

Comment #8: Sharon  on  12/10  at  09:43 PM

Illegally giving teenage girls abortions? God forbid. Next they’ll start illegally helping old ladies cross the street and illegally rescuing starving kittens from rain gutters.

Comment #9: junk science  on  12/10  at  09:44 PM

I have nothing useful to say about it, like I said.  I had something useful to say about Eliot Spitzer.  I know this is asking two things that are very hard for you—-having empathy for another human being, and having a modicum of discernment—-but please try.  I know for someone like you who has never had a useful or intelligent thought in her life, the idea of only writing when you have something of value to say is shocking.  I mean, held to that rule, you’d be utterly mute and have no use for a keyboard. But for those of us who can think, it becomes very, very important not to simply fill the world with hateful, foolish nonsense.  Please try to understand what it must be like for those of us whose brains can handle not just rational but also original thought.  Being a talking point spouting moron like yourself fills us with great pain.

Comment #10: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/10  at  09:44 PM

Of course, since you dare not use the same level of bile on Blago as you would on a Republican, I guess that’s why you think blathering about poor ol’ Planned Parenthood is “something useful to say.”

“You’re not saying what I want to hear! Stop right now and tell me what I want to hear!!! Or you’re dishonest!!!!”

Comment #11: atheist  on  12/10  at  09:51 PM

Illegally giving teenage girls abortions? God forbid. Next they’ll start illegally helping old ladies cross the street and illegally rescuing starving kittens from rain gutters.

It’s shocking, I know, that Planned Parenthood employees would support statutory rape and breaking the law about reporting child sexual abuse, particularly since you’d never hear about it at this site.

I know this is asking two things that are very hard for you—-having empathy for another human being, and having a modicum of discernment—-but please try.

Now I should have empathy for a unprincipled hack who somehow, doesn’t have “anything to say” about the biggest story out there, but who thinks nobody will notice or call her on it? Look, dear, I know you’re jealous of the better educated among us, but crying and whining because I mentioned that you aren’t discussing the actual news of the day is quite unbecoming, even for you. As for “talking point spouting morons,” I believe both your post and your responses to my comments are much more illustrative of talking point-spouting morons than anything I said.

Comment #12: Sharon  on  12/10  at  09:54 PM

“You’re not saying what I want to hear! Stop right now and tell me what I want to hear!!! Or you’re dishonest!!!!”

No, actually, it’s more like “You’re a ginormous hypocrite for blathering endlessly about scandals as long as the scandals aren’t among Democrats!”

Frankly, I was curious to watch Amanda try to defend Blago. Seems I remember a few months ago being threatened with violence on this site because I mentioned the “Chicago machine.” Seems like I should have gone regional.

Comment #13: Sharon  on  12/10  at  09:56 PM

amanda… why are you feeding the troll?  she’s already tried to derail the thread multiple times with the blagojevich question, and you’ve already responded.  she’s just being repetitive now.

just sayin’, is all.

Comment #14: jamie d  on  12/10  at  09:57 PM

Amanda, You’d better write about what Sharone tells you to or you’re going to stop getting those paychecks.

What’s that? She doesn’t pay you to write this blog? It’s your blog and can write about whatever you want?

This country is going straight down the tubes.  ;->

Comment #15: Mark  on  12/10  at  09:58 PM

It seems to be a weekly occurrence here, some one shows up demanding a post about a topic of interest to them.  Maybe you need to have a link to Blogger.com for them.

Comment #16: Fatman  on  12/10  at  09:59 PM

seriously, sharon… quit threadjacking.  what do planned parenthood and reproductive rights have to do with the the corruption investigation of the governor of illinois?

Comment #17: jamie d  on  12/10  at  10:00 PM

It probably has a lot to do with Planned Parenthood’s penchant for trying to help girls obtain abortions illegally, as well.

Sharon on 12/10 at 07:34 PM

Planned Parenthood tries to help girls obtain abortions illegally?  That sounds like a criminal act that would have caused some serious legal problems, and lots of media attention, especially from the religiously insane Reich wing anti-choice types.

I’m sure you have some sort of proof for this sort of allegation, right?  I mean, it’s not like it was in the Clinton Chronicles, or anything like that, and that makes it true as far you’re concerned?  It’s not written in the Bible or anything like that, is it?  With blog posts that start out with truthiness like Michelle Malkin has a great column today on the Democrat Culture of Corruption, I can tell that you might be leaning in a certain direction with regards to reality-based evidence.

Maybe this illegal girl abortion thing came to you in church, when you prayed to your Invisible Sky Fairy for guidance and strength?

Started that Blagojevich post yet?

Sharon on 12/10 at 07:40 PM

You’ve started to determine the content of someone else’s blog for them?  As well as mischaracterize Amanda as a Planned Parenthood flack?  I noticed you haven’t mentioned Caribou Barbie’s stylistic extravaganza (that cost as much Republican’t campaign funds as the clothes they bought for the entire Palin family, don’cha know) on your pages.  What’s up with that?

Smarter foul mouthed religiously insane Reich wing Republican’t she-wolves, please…

Comment #18: (: Tom :)  on  12/10  at  10:01 PM

It’s shocking, I know, that Planned Parenthood employees would support statutory rape and breaking the law about reporting child sexual abuse, particularly since you’d never hear about it at this site.

God, isn’t it? And on top of that, not forcing girls who have been raped and abused to give birth to their rapists’ babies after everything else they’ve been through? Are these people human?

Comment #19: junk science  on  12/10  at  10:02 PM

Seriously Sharon, is your big gotcha that Amanda is not neutral in the left/right balance of this country?  This is a feminist blog, of course it leans left.  Those on the right want to restrict women’s freedom, why would you expect a feminist to be a water carrier for right wing causes.  Breaking news, Pope Catholic!

You can also note that when a Democratic pol does something douchy to women, Amanda is likely to have a post about it. 

Sorry for sprinkling more troll chow

Comment #20: Fatman  on  12/10  at  10:06 PM

Now, I know this is all in good, stupid fun, so I’m not going to get all bent out of shape about it. But I do find it annoying. There’s just something pathetic about the idea that sex appeal is something you can go out and purchase, whether the cash you’re shelling out is for breast implants or a $372 pair of riding boots. (Never mind that a recession seems like a particularly inappropriate moment to push the idea that consumerism leads to fulfillment.)

It almost seems as if Judy Berman is, in fact, bent out of shape about “The Clothes that Got Me Laid”.

Comment #21: atheist  on  12/10  at  10:07 PM

[sigh] You don’t have the right or any qualifications whatsoever to dictate to Amanda Marcotte what her agenda should be.  When she feels qualified to write whatever she wants she will then do so, be fucking glad she serves, the internet wasn’t always around.

Sharon, you’re messing the wrong person.  Believe it.

Comment #22: paradox  on  12/10  at  10:09 PM

I’m wondering: if times were great, and Planned Parenhood had a big deficit, would the right wing say it was OK for them to get government funding, or would they argue that rich donors should make up the difference, because obviously PP just hadn’t convinced enough people to give them money?

Comment #23: paul  on  12/10  at  10:20 PM

Paul, obviously they’d use whatever bullshit tactic seemed likely to chip away at the group.

Comment #24: atheist  on  12/10  at  10:25 PM

To be honest, while the planned parenthood portion of the post is obviously more serious, it so much more “ho-hum” that I almost didn’t stick around for the fun stuff.  I mean really… we’re surprised that the right is using disingenuous arguments to try and strip reproductive freedom from women?

Comment #25: jamie d  on  12/10  at  10:25 PM

I wish I had so many helpful people hanging around me telling me what and how to write. I guess we can’t all be so lucky.

Comment #26: junk science  on  12/10  at  10:30 PM

We can’t all have spastic blowhards for commenters, more’s the pity.

Comment #27: atheist  on  12/10  at  10:38 PM

But of course, the anti-choice nuts are so singularly obsessed with punishing people, especially women, for fucking, that they never stop to realize that every person “punished” in this way adds to a social problem that costs us all.

Which is, of course, why their other crusade is to end taxation.  That way, they can force other people to have children they don’t want AND not have to pay for it!  It’s a win-win!

I mean, look at Sharon.  She thinks that 12-year-old rape victims should be forced to give birth, and she thinks that’s the moral position.

Comment #28: Mnemosyne  on  12/10  at  10:40 PM

Sharon is obviously an accessory after the fact if she indeed knows of PP procuring abortions that are illegal, unless she’s gone to the appropriate authorities where said illegal activity is taking place before coming here to demand that Amanda blog because, I don’t know why.

Seems I remember a few months ago being threatened with violence on this site because I mentioned the “Chicago machine.”

Amen, Sharon!  We conservatives are always told they’ll “put a cap in your ass” if we dare to open our mouths and tell the truth on their precious DEMONcrap only site!  More than once Amanda has told me that she’d dismember me up like a plane-shot moose just because I advocate the usage of Saran Wrap™ instead of condoms ...because she must get some sort of feminutzy kickback on every prophylactic sold in the USA of America.

Comment #30: Rugged in Montana  on  12/10  at  10:56 PM

Wonder if Sharon trolls right wing blogs insisting that they should be more sympathetic to Democrats and lefties. I’m guessing she doesn’t. And if she really believed Planned Parenthood were doing something illegal, she’d be doing more than making accusations with no evidence on pro-choice blogs.

Just be honest, Sharon. You oppose abortion (and, I guess, contraception, STI treatment and pap smears). The ‘PP is committing crimes!!!’ stuff is just an excuse to whine about them. Anti-choice wingnuts have a gift for hypocrisy and bullshit, though. I guess honesty would be an unrealistic expectation.

Comment #31: stealthy cat  on  12/10  at  11:09 PM

Let’s talk about the issue and what to do to stop the evil, anti-american right-wing assholes from taking the rights of the rest of us away instead of wasting another minute talking to or about “Sharon” (who needs to fix the hate in their heart before she dares point a contemptuous finger at another person about anything).  Hypocrisy, thy name is modern Christianity…Jesus would bitch-slap these stupid fuckers.

Anyway…what is Planned Parenthood planning to do about these typically repulsive right-wing tactics?  I suggest everyone donate if they can and write to their congress-critters if they live in areas where PP funding has been cut, to start.

Comment #32: Sheesh  on  12/10  at  11:12 PM

seriously, sharon… quit threadjacking.  what do planned parenthood and reproductive rights have to do with the the corruption investigation of the governor of illinois?

Well, I assume you actually read what I originally wrote, which did address the Planned Parenthood post. I asked the question about Blago because it seemed that the Pandagon writers were studiously avoiding discussing malfeasance from Democrats. This is not, btw, typical of the liberal blogs I’ve read over the last couple of days. Most have been honest enough to address the issue, sometimes with a “We don’t need this crap. Lock him up” attitude. But Amanda just sorta yawns at it. I can’t even imagine the spittle-flecked post she would have written had this been a Republican selling a Senate seat.

No, for the people who think I’m, somehow, dictating what Amanda should write about, that’s just idiotic. I actually enjoy the fact that Amanda doesn’t address the pressing news of the day when it is about Democrats. It means she’ll be incredibly quiet for a couple of years.

And I know exactly what this site is about, guys. I’ve read it, commented about it and commented on it for a couple of years. Amanda usually throws some really lame insults like “talking point moron” and then goes and hides again, readying her next post on how dishonest crisis pregnancy centers are.

Comment #33: Sharon  on  12/10  at  11:19 PM

Here is a post I wrote regarding the Planned Parenthood nurse who suggested that a patient (who said she was 13 and had sex with a 31-year-old man) cross state lines to obtain an abortion without notifying her parents. If you don’t want to read my post, here is the story I linked to, detailing the event.

Adults having sex with minors is child sexual abuse and is a felony. Not reporting a felony is also against the law. And trying to help a child obtain an abortion without parental notification is also a criminal offense. Regardless of whether you think abortion should be available to minors without parental consent, you should be appalled that a Planned Parenthood employee didn’t think child sexual abuse needed to be reported.

Comment #34: Sharon  on  12/10  at  11:24 PM

Well, I assume you actually read what I originally wrote, which did address the Planned Parenthood post.

Yes, where you stated that you think 12-year-old rape victims should be forced to give birth rather than be allowed to get an abortion.  I guess nice girls wouldn’t have let themselves be molested, so it’s only dirty, dirty sluts who end up getting pregnant and deserve to be punished by being forced to have a child they can’t possibly care for, right?

Comment #35: Mnemosyne  on  12/10  at  11:26 PM

Wonder if Sharon trolls right wing blogs insisting that they should be more sympathetic to Democrats and lefties. I’m guessing she doesn’t.

I didn’t say anything about what Amanda should write. I just asked why she hadn’t written anything. It’s very odd when a blog that typically posts about politics is amazingly silent on the biggest story of the week.

Just be honest, Sharon. You oppose abortion (and, I guess, contraception, STI treatment and pap smears). The ‘PP is committing crimes!!!’ stuff is just an excuse to whine about them. Anti-choice wingnuts have a gift for hypocrisy and bullshit, though. I guess honesty would be an unrealistic expectation.

Well, I’m pro-life, but I have nothing against contraception, pap smears and treatment for diseases. Pointing out a glaring problem with Planned Parenthood—that its employees willingly break the law—is neither hypocritical nor bullshit. And it is the truth.

Comment #36: Sharon  on  12/10  at  11:27 PM

Yes, where you stated that you think 12-year-old rape victims should be forced to give birth rather than be allowed to get an abortion.

Where did I say that? What I said was “It probably has a lot to do with Planned Parenthood’s penchant for trying to help girls obtain abortions illegally, as well.” I said nothing at all about whether a girl should have an abortion or give birth. I just pointed out that Planned Parenthood had tried to help girls obtain abortions illegally. In this case, it was a supposed 13-year-old who had had sex with a 31-year-old. Am I to assume you approve of that?

Comment #37: Sharon  on  12/10  at  11:30 PM

Again with the strange morality from Sharon:  it’s perfectly legitimate for an adult to dress up as a 13-year-old and trap a nurse into giving bad advice on tape, because it will prevent all of those real 13-year-olds in that situation from getting abortions.  After all, there’s no one better suited to raise a child than a 13-year-old girl, so preventing them from getting abortions—or even from getting pregnant—is immoral in itself.

Comment #38: Mnemosyne  on  12/10  at  11:30 PM

Where did I say that? What I said was “It probably has a lot to do with Planned Parenthood’s penchant for trying to help girls obtain abortions illegally, as well.”

You also complained about parental consent laws.  So your argument is that a pregnant 13-year-old is always going to be in a completely functional household where her parents can consent to her abortion, so therefore there will never be a need for them to seek one out without their parents’ consent?

I mean, it’s not like any girl has ever been beaten by her parents for turning up pregnant.  It’s not like girls are ever raped by their father or stepfather, who would then be the person who would need to give consent to the abortion.  And 13-year-olds are completely conversant with the legal system, so it’s quick and easy for them to get the judicial bypass they might need if, by some strange confluence of events, they don’t actually come from a functional home.

Wow, you sure solved that problem, Sharon.  I want you in charge of all public policy from now on with your clear-eyed and realistic view of teen pregnancy.

Comment #39: Mnemosyne  on  12/10  at  11:34 PM

that its employees willingly break the law

Employees?  Plural?

Also, considering that the employee in question was suspended without pay pending investigation, why is this supposed to reflect badly on the organization as a whole?

Comment #40: Seraph  on  12/10  at  11:36 PM

In this case, it was a supposed 13-year-old who had had sex with a 31-year-old. Am I to assume you approve of that?

Yes, by saying that a 13-year-old is neither physically nor mentally capable of raising a child, clearly that also means I want to do away with all age of consent and statutory rape laws.  Gosh, you sure caught me there.

Of course, we’re not talking about an actual 13-year-old here, are we?  We’re talking about an adult running a con.  If you’re asking me if I disapprove of activists dressing up as underage girls and lying about being pregnant by older men to try and get Planned Parenthood clinics shut down under false pretenses, then, yes, I do disapprove of that.

Comment #41: Mnemosyne  on  12/10  at  11:38 PM

BTW, why are you guys avoiding Blagojevich? If he were Republican, you’d be all over that.

+

Started that Blagojevich post yet?

...Only 2 hours later…

No, for the people who think I’m, somehow, dictating what Amanda should write about, that’s just idiotic.

How soon we forget

Comment #42: atheist  on  12/10  at  11:39 PM

Well, to be fair, atheist, Sharon isn’t dictating what Amanda should write about, exactly. She’s just cutely and cleverly pointing out what Amanda isn’t writing about in order to wound her. Dictating is for people who don’t have Sharon’s wit and subtlety.

Comment #43: junk science  on  12/10  at  11:43 PM

“Just be honest, Sharon. You oppose abortion (and, I guess, contraception, STI treatment and pap smears). The ‘PP is committing crimes!!!’ stuff is just an excuse to whine about them.”

Sharon’s just upset because PP involves itself with people’s dirty parts.  After all, they wouldn’t be called dirty parts if they weren’t dirty, amirite? 

No one should even touch their own dirty parts, let alone “use” them, and certainly no one should ever see or touch anyone else’s dirty parts.

When the plague of “sex” has finally been stopped, then we can work on getting everyone to church and regularly paying their tithe…

“Anti-choice wingnuts have a gift for hypocrisy and bullshit, though.”

Oh come on!  I’m sure Sharon extensively examined on her own blog each and every one of the several thousand Republican scandals that occurred just in the last few weeks alone…right Sharon?  She makes a special effort to expose the deep hypocrisy that the Republican Party has come to represent, because she is so concerned with the messages this sends to our nation’s young people.  This is also why she must have severely denounced the Cheney/Bush junta for their single minded pursuit of power in direct conflict with The Constitution and all the founding principles of this nation. 

I mean, she must have done those things.  It’s inconceivable she could be so bald-faced in her personal hypocrisy, right? 

Right Sharon? 

Sharon?...

Comment #44: MikeEss  on  12/10  at  11:49 PM

It *is* kind of funny to see the differences between the right and the left on women’s rights and contraception (the left does everything it can to ensure women have access to the care and services they need, while the right stonewalls, obfuscates and outright lies to take those rights away).  It’s very similar to how the two sides approach pretty much everything.

If I had the misfortune to be a Republican, I don’t know that I could ever show my face in public again from sheer embarrassment at all the things my party has done wrong.

Also, last time I checked, random incidents of nurses breaking the law or disobeying protocol =/ cutting all funding for and working to destroy much-needed organizations and depriving scores of women of direly needed services.  In the parlance of our times, Solutions: ur doin it rong.

Comment #45: Sheesh  on  12/10  at  11:51 PM

See, I see an interesting distinction here. 

Situation: A (real) 13-year-old girl shows up at the Planned Parenthood office, pregnant by a 31-year-old man. 

Our priority: Help the girl get an abortion, on the theory that a pregnancy will cause untold damage to her health and future.  Afterward, see what can be done about a) Getting her free of an abusive situation; b) giving her the means and education to avoid pregnancy in the future; and finally c) notify the authorities so the man in question can be apprehended and charged.  Do our best to maintain the girl’s confidentiality while doing so.  Our focus: the girl.

Sharon’s priority: Notify the girl’s parents that she’s pregnant and wants an abortion; notify the Authorities about the rape.  Sharon’s focus: parental and public authority.  Girl?  What girl?

The fact that all of this would girls might not go to PP (or, indeed, anyone) if they couldn’t do it without telling the entire county about what happened to them might be Sharon’s main goal, or just a happy side-effect.

Comment #46: Seraph  on  12/10  at  11:57 PM

“In this case, it was a supposed 13-year-old who had had sex with a 31-year-old. Am I to assume you approve of that?”

Oh, that’s bad alright. Assuming (as the clinic nurse likely did*) that the situation was true instead of a sting, the only thing worse than a 13-year-old who had had sex with a 31-year-old man would be a 13-year-old having the baby because she was frightened and didn’t think she had options. Or maybe going to one of those “Pregnancy Crisis Centers”* and being tricked into carrying the fetus until it was too late to have any choice but to carry a baby to term.

Are you a fan of actual 13-year-old girls getting pregnant and feeling they have no choice except to give birth? Don’t bother answering, since with the “no choice” part I answered my own question.

* because what kind of psychopath would perpetrate such a fraud? (this footnote is a two-fer, since you anti-choicers are so into con games)

Blagojevich? The slimeball should rot in jail. It’s such a cut and dried case I don’t know what more has to be said. What conservatives tend to avoid discussing (because it would contradict their core thesis that all Democrats are evil) is the part where Obama told Blago, his NHL coach haircut and his sleazy plan to take a two mile hike on Navy Pier. You think that tower of integrity, George W Bush, would have done the same in a similar situation with a corrupt GOP governor?

Comment #47: Factcheck  on  12/10  at  11:58 PM

Funny how the right-wing is all about penalizing places for getting donations when they’re not their favorite church.

Comment #48: Crissa  on  12/11  at  12:00 AM

The fact that <strike>all of this would</strike> girls might not go to PP

Undeleted first draft.  Sorry about that.

Comment #49: Seraph  on  12/11  at  12:00 AM

You think that tower of integrity, George W Bush, would have done the same in a similar situation with a corrupt GOP governor?

More to the point, Bush is basically the same as Blagojevich, except that almost no-one in the government is brave enough to challenge Bush.

Comment #50: atheist  on  12/11  at  12:05 AM

Really, even if you slip in and out in under 5 minutes to give them a couple of bucks for a bag of condoms, the stress of the occasion probably forced one of your eggs to give up hope.

Who says you’re a bad writer?  ; )

Comment #51: Notorious P.A.T.  on  12/11  at  12:07 AM

But the new lobbying effort, backed by conservative Christian groups such as the Family Research Council, focuses more on economic than moral concerns.

If they’re so worried about our economic woes, maybe they will volunteer to give up their church’s tax-exempt status.  hahaha!  good one.

Comment #52: Notorious P.A.T.  on  12/11  at  12:08 AM

Shithead Sharon, go back to your troll-hole with the rest of the rejects.  I’m sure Dumbass Dana needs his fix of you kissing his ass.

/r/ SRB Sharon.

Comment #53: Blue Field Damian  on  12/11  at  12:12 AM

“considering that the employee in question was suspended without pay pending investigation, why is this supposed to reflect badly on the organization as a whole?”

Wait, you mean Planned Parenthood as an organization didn’t condone the nurse’s erroneous actions, and in fact penalized her for them? (this also implies that the nurse in question did not run or set policy for Planned Parenthood)

But Sharon said “I just pointed out that Planned Parenthood had tried to help girls obtain abortions illegally” and “It probably has a lot to do with Planned Parenthood’s penchant for trying to help girls obtain abortions illegally” 

I guess once your side starts lying to nurses trying to do a difficult job and lying to scared kids who come to your phoney pregnancy crisis center, lies like this just come easily.

Sharon, from your lies and support of liars I have no choice except to conclude that you’re a habitual liar. It also looks like you use those lies mainly to try to control other people’s lives and boost your own ego. Besides your politics, you have a lot more in common with Blago than you might think.

Comment #54: Factcheck  on  12/11  at  12:16 AM

By the way, Shittalk Sharon, if you’ve got so much of a need for a Blago story, I’ve got one at my site.  Go ahead and pull your bullshit on my turf, I dare you.

Comment #55: Blue Field Damian  on  12/11  at  12:21 AM

“More to the point, Bush is basically the same as Blagojevich, except that almost no-one in the government is brave enough to challenge Bush.”

I’ve heard lots of people suggest the Fitz be put in charge of any investigations of Bush admin wrongdoing. It looks like he has a bipartisan approach to rooting out scumbags who abuse the public trust.

Comment #56: Factcheck  on  12/11  at  12:22 AM

Wonder if Sharon trolls right wing blogs insisting that they should be more sympathetic to Democrats and lefties.

There’s no need for that since the Democrats have had ironclad control over our country’s government and mainstream media and business community for the past 8 years.

Comment #57: Notorious P.A.T.  on  12/11  at  12:28 AM

I for one would really appreciate it if the right-wing trolls could properly identify rape.  A 13 year-old girl does not “have sex with” a 31 year-old man.  A 13 year-old girl cannot consent.  The proper wording is “a 31 year-old man RAPED a 13 year-old girl.”  Period, end of story. But, using the correct descriptor might make it look like the girl was the *victim* or something, and not a dirty, dirty slut who deserves to be punished for having sex. 

The fact that these people claim moral high ground is disgusting.

Comment #58: Emma  on  12/11  at  12:32 AM

“Sharon” (ugh, and obviously a stupid man) keeps harping on points that have no credibility, ergo “Sharon (a stupid man) is a harpie.  Someone else named “Sharon” broke the law once, therefore, harpie “Sharon” is likewise incriminated in the crime of the other “Sharon” - this is the illogic promoted by “Sharon” (a stupid harpie man) when she/it talks about illegal abortion and statutory rape.  What a bunch of buzzwords to throw around when you have no actual substance to present or an actual leg to stand on.

Amanda said it all - “Sharon” (an unthinking, unoriginal, illogical stupid harpie man) is lame and doesn’t deserve the attention she/it got here.  But such sport can be irresistible.

Comment #59: News Nag  on  12/11  at  12:34 AM

Oh, I didn’t realize that the PP incident was entrapment.  My point still stands.

Comment #60: Emma  on  12/11  at  12:36 AM

Again with the strange morality from Sharon:  it’s perfectly legitimate for an adult to dress up as a 13-year-old and trap a nurse into giving bad advice on tape, because it will prevent all of those real 13-year-olds in that situation from getting abortions.  After all, there’s no one better suited to raise a child than a 13-year-old girl, so preventing them from getting abortions—or even from getting pregnant—is immoral in itself.

If Planned Parenthood weren’t advocating the breaking of the law for teenagers to obtain abortions, it really wouldn’t have mattered had the adult actually been a 13-year-old. Your logic is that because the “victim” wasn’t actually 13, it was permissible for the nurse to break the law. That’s pretty strange, to me.

This isn’t really about whether someone “tricked” the nurse; it’s clear from the video that the girl explained she’d “had sex” with a 31-year-old and the nurse said she “didn’t want to hear that.” In other words, she wasn’t interested in reporting this abuse (and that’s what sex with a child is). She was only interested in getting the 13-year-old an abortion…without her parents’ knowledge.

You guys really get caught up in finding excuses here. The facts are that the Planned Parenthood nurse broke the law and committed a felony. I find it very strange that you are much more concerned with defending PP (and insulting me) than you are concerned that PP personnel break the law.

Comment #61: Sharon  on  12/11  at  12:59 AM

Atheist,
I asked why Amanda hadn’t blogged about Blagojevich. That’s not dictating what she writes. Her response—insulting and childish—spawned my insulting and taunting her. I’m sorry you just don’t seem able to follow that.

Comment #62: Sharon  on  12/11  at  01:02 AM

Sharon’s just upset because PP involves itself with people’s dirty parts.

Nah, I’m more concerned that PP thinks laws are for somebody else to follow.

I’m sure Sharon extensively examined on her own blog each and every one of the several thousand Republican scandals that occurred just in the last few weeks alone…right Sharon?

Which scandals in the last few weeks are you referring to? I tend to cover a lot of “scandals,” but I don’t spend a lot of time writing about how Democrats shouldn’t be allowed to govern because of the actions of various politicians. I do point out the hypocrisy of those who do,though.

Sharon’s priority: Notify the girl’s parents that she’s pregnant and wants an abortion; notify the Authorities about the rape.  Sharon’s focus: parental and public authority.  Girl?  What girl?

No, actually, my priority would be to inform the authorities about the rape of the child, then finding out about the child’s relationship with the parents. But PP has no right under the laws of Indiana to help pregnant girls circumvent the law. Believe it or not, there are more parents interested in helping their children than harming them. I know this goes against the values typically on display here; after all, 13-year-olds are well-known for their terrific decision-making skills.

This idea that getting a child an abortion, particularly without informing her parents, is pretty amazing, really. Considering that a 13-year-old isn’t allowed to get a tattoo or get her ears pierced without parental consent, it seems reasonable that parents should at least be informed that their daughter is having an abortion.

Comment #63: Sharon  on  12/11  at  01:11 AM

Nah, I’m more concerned that PP thinks laws are for somebody else to follow.

You mean the PP that suspended the nurse without pay, pending investigation?  That PP?

Comment #64: Seraph  on  12/11  at  01:18 AM

Believe it or not, there are more parents interested in helping their children than harming them.

True.  And the children of such parents generally go to them when they have a problem this big.  Those who don’t, generally have a very good reason not to.

Comment #65: Seraph  on  12/11  at  01:23 AM

Sharon continues to lie and hate.

/r/ SRB.

Comment #66: Blue Field Damian  on  12/11  at  01:32 AM

<blockquote>This idea that getting a child an abortion, particularly without informing her parents, is pretty amazing, really. Considering that a 13-year-old isn’t allowed to get a tattoo or get her ears pierced without parental consent, it seems reasonable that parents should at least be informed that their daughter is having an abortion.

You, or another anti-choicer, always brings this up whenever parental notification laws are discussed.  Others have, and will, point out why an abortion is fundamentally different than a tattoo or a piercing. 

Here’s my question, though.  Please answer honestly and directly if you can, without engaging in the usual dance of wordplay and “gotcha”:

The fact that you ask this question indicates to me that your priorities are, in order: 1) Preventing the girl from getting an abortion and 2) maintaining parental authority.  Let’s look at the latter, seeing as there’s no common ground to be had between us on the former.

As you’ve pointed out, more parents are interested in helping their children than harming them.  But what about the rest?  What about the girls who will be beaten and/or thrown out by their parents if they’re found out to be pregnant, girls who’ve seen that very thing happen to their sisters?  Girls who are pregnant by their uncles, stepfathers, or even their fathers? 

You say this:

my priority would be to inform the authorities about the rape of the child, then finding out about the child’s relationship with the parents

, but by informing the Authorities, you have informed the parents.  What then?  You never move past that step.

Comment #67: Seraph  on  12/11  at  01:39 AM

Another question:

Since you obviously consider PP to be unacceptable, where - if anywhere - would you have such girls go? 

You know why Crisis Pregnancy Centers are unacceptable.

Comment #68: Seraph  on  12/11  at  01:48 AM

You mean the PP that suspended the nurse without pay, pending investigation?  That PP?

I mean the PP that hires people who break the law. The only reason PP did anything at all was that this became a media event. Well, and event everywhere but at Pandagon, since it made PP look bad.

True.  And the children of such parents generally go to them when they have a problem this big.  Those who don’t, generally have a very good reason not to.

Do you have statistics to back up this claim? I sort of doubt that almost any 13-year-old would want to tell her parents she was pregnant, particularly by a 31-year-old man. Children don’t tend to make very good decisions. This idea that, somehow, the reason children want to have abortions without their parents’ knowledge is because there’s something wrong with the parents is unfair and disgusting and made by people who never thought there was an abortion that shouldn’t happen.

Sharon continues to lie and hate.

More idiocy on display.

The fact that you ask this question indicates to me that your priorities are, in order: 1) Preventing the girl from getting an abortion and 2) maintaining parental authority.

Actually, I think the burden should be on the people who insist that parents shouldn’t be informed to prove that enough parents are incestuous to justify not informing any parents about their children’s medical procedures.

Here’s the thing, Seraph. Virtually every parental notification law has a judicial bypass to deal with the whole incest/evil parent situation. But this person determined that following the law, which is designed to protect minors, wasn’t an option. Not only that, but she recommended that the child have the abuser take her across state lines to get an abortion. This is what you want to defend?

You know why Crisis Pregnancy Centers are unacceptable.

Oh, I think the reasons YOU think crisis pregnancy centers are unacceptable are unacceptable themselves.

Comment #69: Sharon  on  12/11  at  02:00 AM

“You know why Crisis Pregnancy Centers are unacceptable.”

No she doesn’t. Our Sharon’s a big believer in lies and con games in the name of Jesus, so a fake version of a Planned Parenthood clinic is aces with her.

By the way, did you hear about Sharon’s anti-choice movement, Seraph? I mean the anti-choice movement that has members who break the law (like Eric Rudolph). The only reason anti-choice movement did anything to distance themselves from Rudolph was that his bombing spree became a media event. Well, an event everywhere on anti-choice blogs, since it made the anti-choice movement look bad.

Comment #70: Factcheck  on  12/11  at  02:12 AM

Sharon, be quiet.  Adults are talking.

Comment #71: Blue Field Damian  on  12/11  at  02:17 AM

Damian,

She won’t listen unless you use her wifely name from her dream world, the Republic of the Gilead. Since I don’t know her husband’s name, I’ll have to use that of her soulmate in lies and call her “Ofblago” smile

Comment #72: Factcheck  on  12/11  at  02:23 AM

I can’t imagine much more of an impossible situation to be caught in as a nurse. You have someone who you desperately don’t want to walk out of the clinic and have a baby alone and scared, but now they’re telling you a crime has occurred. I don’t find it really unethical for PP nurses to approach teenager clients before they state their age to say “If you are under-18 you need to have parental consent to get an abortion if that is what you want. If you tell me that you are under 14, I need to report to CPS if you have sex. If you tell me that your partner is older than 18, I need to report this to start an investigation. A police investigation may result, and I can talk to you more about what that could mean. If you’re in a situation like that, I want to help YOU but will need to cooperate with law enforcement.” Because you don’t want a teenager to walk out of a clinic, abortion or prental care, because they don’t want their boyfriend to go to jail or their parents to beat the snot out of them for sleeping around. If the safest thing for THAT PATIENT is to get them an abortion now, I support that.

Right-wingers have this bizarre love/hate fantasy about child protective services and law enforcement. When it comes to raising their kids right, CPS is the evil enemy who wants to take their children away for not being liberal enough. When it comes to other people’s children, especially teenagers who have sex, law enforcement and CPS are magical fairies who will whisk children away into loving situations and nothing bad will happen at all! They shut their hands over their ears and say “LA LA LA!” when reality doesn’t follow that way, when abuse or bad home situations get worse because of police/CPS involvement.
Besides which, marriage is legal at 14 in most states, what if the parents turned around and said “Okay, soon as you turn 14, you’re marrying him.” Who would really be the ones pushing them into the arms of older men, then?
Does anyone really think that the “13”-year-old in the video would be better off having the baby?

Basically, this project is trying multiple ways and means to make abortion harder to obtain for all women, instead of actually supporting women to avoid unwanted pregnancy in the first place.

Comment #73: Tenya  on  12/11  at  02:25 AM

Factcheck, you just made me laugh, and that dispelled all my anger.

Comment #74: Blue Field Damian  on  12/11  at  02:36 AM

I mean the PP that hires people who break the law.

Ah.  So any organization becomes illegitimate as soon as any of its employees break the law, regardless of that organization’s response to that lawbreaking.  Got it.

Here’s the thing, Seraph. Virtually every parental notification law has a judicial bypass to deal with the whole incest/evil parent situation.

True.  If a 13-year-old, without assistance from her parents, can arrange for a court appearance, file any necessary documents correctly, and convince a judge, all without her parents finding out, she can have her abortion.  Unless she’s too far along in her pregnancy by that point.

I asked you not to be disingenuous.

But this person determined that following the law, which is designed to protect minors, wasn’t an option.

Is it designed to protect children?  Or is it designed to put every possible barrier in the path of girls seeking an abortion, under the excuse of protecting children?

Or are the “children” you refer to the fetuses, and not the young girls at all?

Not only that, but she recommended that the child have the abuser take her across state lines to get an abortion. This is what you want to defend?

Except for the “have the abuser take her” part (if that’s actually in there - I’m working a night shift right now and can’t watch the video)?  Sure. 

But then, I’m not a Planned Parenthood representative.  They’re obeying the law, even if it’s a horrible one.

Oh, I think the reasons YOU think crisis pregnancy centers are unacceptable are unacceptable themselves.

So you think lying to women in a vulnerable position is okay, as long as it prevents abortions.  Gotcha.

Comment #75: Seraph  on  12/11  at  02:37 AM

Tenya said it all.

Comment #76: Seraph  on  12/11  at  02:48 AM

Can we arrest/fine parents who penalize their child for making a choice?

Why should the parents get to choose, anyhow?

Comment #77: Crissa  on  12/11  at  02:53 AM

Actually, I think the burden should be on the people who insist that parents shouldn’t be informed to prove that enough parents are incestuous to justify not informing any parents about their children’s medical procedures.

Why?

No, really, why?

Scenario 1, no parental consent law: X number of teens consult their parents and choose to abort or not to abort. Y number of teens do not consult their parents, for whatever reason, and choose to abort. Casualties: 0.
Scenario 2, parental consent law: X + Y teens consult their parents. It’s likely that X will suffer no ill consequences, since they obviously have a good enough relationship to go to their parents without a law making them do so. It’s Y teens that’s the problem. Because Y teens know their parents better than the state knows their parents, they’re afraid to go, but if they want to abort, they have to either consult their parents, who may beat them or throw them out, or self-abort. Casualties: Y.

You can’t have a negative number of people, thus Y > 0 and Scenario A is better than Scenario B, to any feeling person. Reducing the number of people hurt should always take precedence over maintaining parental authority over children.

How many children are you willing to risk hurting in order to preserve your idealized view of the family where parents always protect their offspring? Ten? Twenty?

Comment #78: Rebecca  on  12/11  at  03:03 AM

(tl;dr: no, the burden is on you to prove that the “benefits” of a parental consent law are worth a single casualty.)

Comment #79: Rebecca  on  12/11  at  03:04 AM

You mean the PP that suspended the nurse without pay, pending investigation?  That PP?

I mean the PP that hires people who break the law.

Are you trying to imply that PP knew in advance that this particular employee would break the law in precisely this way, and hired her anyways? Because that’s the only way this little accusation of yours makes any sense at all.

The only reason PP did anything at all was that this became a media event.

You’d think that if they only suspended her in response to bad publicity, rather than out of a face-value conviction that her actions were unacceptable and not at all condoned by their organization, it wouldn’t have been prominently mentioned in the very first sentence of the article you’re basing your entire fantasy-land scenario on.

I really can’t imagine what it’s like to live your entire life assuming that everyone is as cynical, unethical and self-serving as you yourself are. No wonder you’ve had to build yourself such an impenetrable shell of shameless lying, ideological aggressiveness and comically false bravado. You’d think that just by accident you could have come up with a less socially backwards way of keeping at bay your despair and shame at being such an obvious waste of carbon, but I guess we all know you don’t have the self-awareness for it.

Comment #80: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  12/11  at  04:00 AM

I really can’t imagine what it’s like to live your entire life assuming that everyone is as cynical, unethical and self-serving as you yourself are.
It’s on the test to become a certified wingnut.

Apparently, “Sharon” {wink wink} believes that PP has a crystal ball that will tell them all future acts of their employees, like being suckered into an entrapment scenario.

(WHICH, I hope, is going into the PP employee orientation: “There will be assholes who will try to entrap you….”)
+++++++++++++
But what about the rest?
I noticed our troll-du-jour ignored this part of Seraph’s question.  ‘Cuz that’s just how they roll in Wingnuttia.

Comment #81: Eric, Rejector of Memez  on  12/11  at  04:25 AM

obviously i missed something massive regarding how the law works re: doctor/patient confidentiality. am i to understand that were i thirteen and raped any medical professional i sought help from would be obligated to inform the police, even against my wishes? that is seriously fucked up. does the same apply when an adult is raped? is it a state by state thing? i’m a childhood incest survivor and in no way want to enable pedophiles and rapists, but i also really hate the idea of further removing agency from a rape survivor no matter how old.

Comment #82: jessilikewhoa  on  12/11  at  05:06 AM

“It probably has a lot to do with Planned Parenthood’s penchant for trying to help girls obtain abortions illegally, as well.

BTW, why are you guys avoiding Blagojevich? If he were Republican, you’d be all over that.”

Sharon, fuck off.  On many levels.  I know it was way upthread and I’m sure many of y’all have already dealt with her fuckwittery.  But still.  Fuck off, Sharon.

Comment #83: Donna  on  12/11  at  05:19 AM

“Seriously Sharon, is your big gotcha that Amanda is not neutral in the left/right balance of this country?  This is a feminist blog, of course it leans left.  Those on the right want to restrict women’s freedom, why would you expect a feminist to be a water carrier for right wing causes.  Breaking news, Pope Catholic!

You can also note that when a Democratic pol does something douchy to women, Amanda is likely to have a post about it.  “

Exactly.  She had plenty to say about Spitzer, as I recall.

Comment #84: Donna  on  12/11  at  05:29 AM

As for Blagojevich, Sharon, as you’ve acknowledged there has been plenty of commentary about him from the lefty blogosphere.  When can we count on reciprocation from the RW blogs about Delay, Libby, Abramoff, Vitter, Craig, Cunningham, Ney, Foley, Renzi, Hastert, etc, etc, etc? 

IOKIYAR, or what?

Comment #85: Donna  on  12/11  at  06:05 AM

Atheist,
I asked why Amanda hadn’t blogged about Blagojevich. That’s not dictating what she writes. Her response—insulting and childish—spawned my insulting and taunting her.

Sharon must be crazy if she/he/it does not realize how rude it is to go on someone else’s blog, and demand that they write about what you want them to write about. Thankfully, I think Sharon does realize how rude this is, but is simply a habitual liar. I think Sharon’s aim, in coming on the blog, was simply to suck a little life energy out of the conversation. If so, Sharon has succeeded in that, as well as to threadjack.

Comment #86: atheist  on  12/11  at  07:38 AM

It almost seems as if Judy Berman is, in fact, bent out of shape about “The Clothes that Got Me Laid”.

Maybe Judy Berman doesn’t have clothes that would get her laid and is jealous.

Comment #87: Lindsay  on  12/11  at  10:19 AM

I think jessi made the point that needed to be made way upstream.  As far as I know, doctor/patient confidentiality is what should hold here.  If I go to the doctor and inform her that I was raped, she will ASK me if I want to report it to the authorities.  I would imagine that underage girls have the same right to decide what they want to do, given that the next step in proving rape is a rape kit, which is like being raped a second time.

So shut up, Sharon.  I know this is a crazy concept, but try to hold on to it:  Girls and women are people, too.

Comment #88: speedbudget  on  12/11  at  10:50 AM

It almost seems as if Judy Berman is, in fact, bent out of shape about “The Clothes that Got Me Laid”.

There’s the clothes that women’s fashion magazines tell you that you need to wear in order to get laid, and then there’s the clothes that the rest of us wear to get laid.  And I think Judy’s confusing the two.  Actually perusing the blog helps in determining that, in that some of the pictures posted are not the actual dress/jeans/whatever that the person wore, but an example of it.

But honestly, if a person can count on the label stuff to always fit them well and look good on their body, then they’re worth the expense.  I’ll spend a little more money on something if it looks good than on a cheap knockoff that doesn’t fit properly.  Likewise, if there’s a cheaper option that I like that looks good, I’ll take that too. 

I mean, there’s really nothing wrong with having a style, even if it’s not what the fashion magazines say is “in” this season.  And in just reading what clothes got people laid, it varies.  You see that there’s no set thing that gets people laid, other than the wearers liked their outfits.  Also, there’s a wide range of experiences of getting laid.  It almost sounds as if she disapproves of people getting laid and sharing their experience.  I don’t think you have to give up style to be a feminist, unless your definition of feminist is “always looking as ugly as possible, preferably in ill-fitting clothes”, which pretty much sums up the definition of feminism that right-wingers use.

Comment #89: DUHMonster  on  12/11  at  10:53 AM

No she doesn’t. Our Sharon’s a big believer in lies and con games in the name of Jesus, so a fake version of a Planned Parenthood clinic is aces with her.

Wow, lots of projection in that statement. You’re ok with an organization that lies to its patients and breaks the law but, somehow, because I think child sexual abuse is a big problem, *I’m* the one that believes in “lies and con games.” How far up your ass do you have to stick your head to believe that?

Right-wingers have this bizarre love/hate fantasy about child protective services and law enforcement. When it comes to raising their kids right, CPS is the evil enemy who wants to take their children away for not being liberal enough. When it comes to other people’s children, especially teenagers who have sex, law enforcement and CPS are magical fairies who will whisk children away into loving situations and nothing bad will happen at all! They shut their hands over their ears and say “LA LA LA!” when reality doesn’t follow that way, when abuse or bad home situations get worse because of police/CPS involvement.

Actually, it sounds like you have a love-hate relationship with CPS (as do most people, really). You like CPS when they take children out of the homes of people you consider unfit to parent, but it’s wrong to intervene when a 31-year-old is having sex with a 7th grader. Because, gosh, she might not get her abortion, and that really is the most important thing evah.

CPS isn’t always the white knight riding in to the rescue. They’re normal people who sometimes make mistakes. But the laws are in place to protect children. The problem here is that for you people, abortion is the ultimate good and nothing else is as important. So, if a 7th grader has sex with an adult man, that’s not too good, but it’s ok to lie to the authorities (or try to circumvent the authorities) to make sure the 7th grader can get an abortion. You’re even good with the rapist taking the 7th grader across state lines to get the abortion, just as long as she gets it. That’s an incredible morality.

Besides which, marriage is legal at 14 in most states, what if the parents turned around and said “Okay, soon as you turn 14, you’re marrying him.” Who would really be the ones pushing them into the arms of older men, then?
Does anyone really think that the “13”-year-old in the video would be better off having the baby?

I always love when abortion supporters bring out the most bizarre hypotheticals to excuse the inexcusable. Well, what if the parents did? That would be horrible, wouldn’t it? But the facts of the story didn’t include these fantasies. In fact, there’s no reason to assume the parents aren’t normal, caring, loving people who would be most concerned about what was best for their daughter. I undrestand why you have to paint the parents as evil people; it justifies breaking the law and lying to the authorities and parents. But if you honestly think letting a rapist take your kid across statelines to get an abortion is ok, then I honestly hope you get the chance to prove it. I’m sure far more parents—normal parents, not monsters—think they should be involved in the decisions their 7th graders make. Because teenagers are notorious for making bad choices and parents are actually responsible for what happens to their children. Believe it or not, if a doctor botched the girl’s abortion, her parents, those same evil people we shouldn’t inform, would have to sign consent forms for her treatment.

I absolutely love the arguments presented everytime someone points out a situation where abortion isn’t the answer. 13-year-olds having abortions isn’t a good option just because you think abortion should be available up until a child walks. No, having children at 13 isn’t a good choice either, but guess what? There aren’t any ideal circumstances when you talk about pregnant 7th graders. And it isn’t the responsibility of PP (or any of you, either) to determine when someone else’s child should be making life-altering decisions without parental support.

Comment #90: Sharon  on  12/11  at  11:18 AM

I mean, there’s really nothing wrong with having a style, even if it’s not what the fashion magazines say is “in” this season.  And in just reading what clothes got people laid, it varies.  You see that there’s no set thing that gets people laid, other than the wearers liked their outfits.

I agree. There’s a kind of perverse thrill that many people seem to take in dissing fashion and style as too shallow. Well, of course they’re shallow, that’s what they are supposed to be!

It seems like a kind of puritanism, an extremism meant to hide weakness. People sometimes act ultra-serious to defend their own unserious points of view.

Comment #91: atheist  on  12/11  at  11:32 AM

Also, this is just much too extreme:

There’s just something pathetic about the idea that sex appeal is something you can go out and purchase, whether the cash you’re shelling out is for breast implants or a $372 pair of riding boots.

Hell yes, you can purchase sex appeal. In the form of stylish clothes. Also, if you want good, sexy-looking clothes, then that’s just like getting breast implants? What the hell?

There is a kind of courage in admitting honestly that, “yes, I want to look good” in a society where people want you to look good, but are too afraid to admit it. Especially when there’s assholes constantly waiting to pounce on you for such an admission.

Comment #92: atheist  on  12/11  at  11:42 AM

Okay it’s sometimes fun for me to burn trolls, but I’m banning Sharon for threadjacking.  No doubt after the people who tell her what to think tell her to think this means I can’t handle the truth, she’ll blog that.

Comment #93: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  11:49 AM

The fact that all of this would girls might not go to PP (or, indeed, anyone) if they couldn’t do it without telling the entire county about what happened to them might be Sharon’s main goal, or just a happy side-effect.

The fact that said girls will try to self-abort with coat hangers, hemorrhage and die is a happy side effect.  If they didn’t want to die alone and in pain at 13, they shouldn’t have been so damn rapeable.  Only by killing a few can we convince the rest to wear nothing but overcoats around their fathers, who, being men, can’t be expected to control themselves or not be sick perverts.

Comment #94: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  12:01 PM

Also, what our now-banned troll neglected to note is that anti-choice groups run these stings non-stop, and almost never get any employee to break the rules.  Of course they do.  It’s an opportunity for the sexually repressed middle aged men who run these groups to get 18-year-old girls to practice over and over their stories about having hot, steamy sex with someone older, someone like themselves.  Because there ain’t no pervert like a right wing pervert.

Comment #95: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  12:07 PM

“Wow, lots of projection in that statement. You’re ok with an organization that lies to its patients and breaks the law but, somehow, because I think child sexual abuse is a big problem, *I’m* the one that believes in “lies and con games.” How far up your ass do you have to stick your head to believe that? “

I see Sharon has been banned, but this gets a response:

No, Sharon, you’re the one who believes in lies and con games by setting up phony organizations that promise to deliver a service and then don’t follow through. That’s almost the base definition of a confidence game, and that’s what your “Pregnancy Crisis Centers” are all about.

I’m not ok with an organization that lies to its patients, and it looks like that PP nurse was telling some hard truths to what she was led to believe was a “13-year-old girl” (another one of your frauds, BTW) in what was deliberately presented as an impossible situation.

Also, if PP “breaks the law” on the basis of one nurse’s error, by the same token we can accuse you of being just as bad as Eric Rudolph because you’re both zealots in the anti-choice movement. I don’t because, psychopathic and hate filled as you present yourself here, you’re too frightened to address even basic arguments head on when they inevitably lead to the internal contradictions that come with being a religious fanatic.

Getting back on topic, I think the adult version of outfits these gals wear is Sharon’s idea of the type of “clothes that get her laid.”

Comment #96: Factcheck  on  12/11  at  12:46 PM

This whole scenario could be considered birth-control.  Who would want this?

absolutely love the arguments presented everytime someone points out a situation where abortion isn’t the answer.

It may not be the answer but should be an answer.  That’s all I ask.

And it isn’t the responsibility of PP (or any of you, either) to determine when someone else’s child should be making life-altering decisions without parental support.

Assuming the child actually has functional parental support and nothing ugly would happen to the child upon initiating parental involvement, Sharon would have a more reasonable point. Is Sharon assuming that all 13-year-olds have a warm, loving, supportive and healthy relationship with their parents? Family isn’t always 1950s sitcom T.V.  I don’t have a MS in social work, but if a pregnant 13-year-old showed up in a PP clinic that might be a good indicator that not all is well in the household. If the parents aren’t being parents, then someone has to step up. I’m just sayin’.

Comment #97: Tim  on  12/11  at  01:13 PM

I don’t know that I would have banned the user known as Sharon.  Many of these uterus thieves really get off playing the victim.  Banning is a form of vindication.

Comment #98: Tim  on  12/11  at  01:22 PM

Is Sharon assuming that all 13-year-olds have a warm, loving, supportive and healthy relationship with their parents?

The parents are almost beside the point. Anti-choice people like Sharon think that the only reason 13-year-old girls get pregnant is because they’re wanton sluts who tempted boys and men into fulfilling their dirty, dirty desires. The only way to deal with them is to beat the succubus out of them in some biblically approved manner.

The ones who come from warm, loving, supportive homes are “obviously” rebellious ingrates, and the ones who come from abusive homes are “obviously” born bad. The object of the excercise: always blame the girl, never blame the parents or other authority figures (except for liberals who would spare the rob), and never blame the poor male who can’t control his impulses [Lonely Planet YouTube video—funny but NSFW].

Comment #99: Gracchus  on  12/11  at  02:26 PM

The other interesting thing is the notion that if you tell the parents, that results in the kid not getting the abortion. If I had a daughter who was 16 or 17 and got pregnant, I would be a lot more comfortable with her entertaining the full range of options. If I had a daughter who was 13 and got pregnant, I would be very, very concerned about her carrying to term. And I suspect parental notification laws in general probably lead to more pressure to abort than pressure not to. I’m sure it varies from family to family, but I’ve heard more than one father claim he’d drag his daughter to the abortion clinic as quick as he could if he found out his teenage daughter was pregnant.

Comment #100: chingona  on  12/11  at  02:53 PM

I don’t know that I would have banned the user known as Sharon.  Many of these uterus thieves really get off playing the victim.  Banning is a form of vindication.

Sharon can feel as vindicated and victimized as Sharon wants to feel. Sharon can no longer comment here and that makes me feel fine.

Comment #101: atheist  on  12/11  at  03:04 PM

I remember a friend of mine who had a pair of pants she swore up and down were her lucky pants in this department. ... They fit well, looked good, but weren’t like skin tight or anything.  Like her other pants, basically.

Wait, there are people out there who have more than one pair of jeans that they wear to social occasions? The decadence!

Comment #102: Rebecca C.  on  12/11  at  03:28 PM

Could someone remind me again what those three things have to do with decking yourself out in other people’s outfits because you don’t have the confidence to snag a bed buddy all by your cute, smart, witty self?

Now this really confuses me. Are you supposed to sew your own clothes so you don’t have to wear “other people’s outfits,” or are you supposed to go out naked all the time? Because it’s really cold out right now. Should I just be dressing as ugly as possible so I can make sure it’s absolutely nothing but my personality that catches people’s notice?

Comment #103: junk science  on  12/11  at  04:08 PM

Tim, I can’t really care how she feels.  It’s less important than not letting her take over my blog like she wants to take over my body.  I thought people could have a fun discussion about getting laid and clothes, and that was basically tanked by someone provoked no doubt by hysterical envy of those less repressed.

Comment #104: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  04:27 PM

Tim, there are rules in place here, and Sharon continually violates them.  Concern-troll for him all you’d like; nobody gives a damn.  If people want to disrupt threads by telling out-and-out lies and trying to push misogynistic, hatefull bullshit, they’ll lose their ability to comment.  “Sharon” found that out.  Now he can go run off and kiss Dumbass Dana’s ass some more and talk about how mean and evil us LEEBROOLZ are.

Comment #105: Blue Field Damian  on  12/11  at  04:46 PM

On topic, I liked the clothes blog. I’ve been married a while, and more relevant to this discussion, have a young kid in the house who has stopped taking his afternoon nap, so the clothes that get me laid usually are my pajamas. Boring, I know. But I think the site is pretty fun, and it approaches fashion in a way that is a lot more appealing to me than most coverage in magazines.

If you go over there now, she has a pretty good response up to Salon.

Comment #106: chingona  on  12/11  at  04:54 PM

I thought people could have a fun discussion about getting laid and clothes

Ok, bringing it back on track, I guess I have a few “lucky” pieces of clothing that flatter me and might have contributed to my getting laid. But I’m a guy, dress in mostly classic stuff, so it’s not a big production.

I do get the sense that what catches a woman’s eye about a man’s physical appearance involves a more subtle calculation than vice-versa.

Comment #107: Gracchus  on  12/11  at  05:09 PM

Could someone remind me again what those three things have to do with decking yourself out in other people’s outfits because you don’t have the confidence to snag a bed buddy all by your cute, smart, witty self?

See, this makes no sense to me.  One way to highlight your “cute, smart, witty self” is with your choice of attire.  How we dress telegraphs a lot about our personality to others and I have yet to meet more than a handful of people who do not select their clothing according to their own sartorial/personality preferences.  My friends exhibit a range of fashion options: hipster, vintage, cosmopolitan/European, ethnic, punk, trendy, out-of date, etc.  I find that how someone dresses can tell me something about that person that I find appealing and want to find out more about them as a person.  I reject the notion that women aren’t as visual as men and that responding to visual stimuli is inherently bad for either sex. Berman seems to think that being a third wave feminist means denial that visual stimuli is an important component of initial attraction and that we all respond to different things.

I think it’s important for people to know how to dress in ways that both flatter their shape (because often it’s the most comfortable way to dress) and fit their personality and “frivolous” fashion blogs help people to see how that’s done and the range of options.  There is nothing less appealing on first glance than somebody who is clearly uncomfortable in their clothes, no matter what the reason.

Comment #108: history_mom  on  12/11  at  05:41 PM

And it isn’t the responsibility of PP (or any of you, either) to determine when someone else’s child should be making life-altering decisions without parental support.

No, it isn’t PP’s responsibility to decide whether or not the girl should have an abortion without parental “support.”

But it isn’t the parents’ responsibility either.

It’s the girl’s.

Comment #109: Rebecca  on  12/11  at  05:52 PM

Also, what our now-banned troll neglected to note is that anti-choice groups run these stings non-stop, and almost never get any employee to break the rules.  Of course they do.  It’s an opportunity for the sexually repressed middle aged men who run these groups to get 18-year-old girls to practice over and over their stories about having hot, steamy sex with someone older, someone like themselves.  Because there ain’t no pervert like a right wing pervert.

Word.  I have yet to meet a male anti-choice leader who did not skeeve me right the fuck out.

Comment #110: Donna  on  12/11  at  06:40 PM

hmmm…. I’ve never been to planned parenthood, so I’ll just say I had a nice pair of pale washed out jeans that rode kinda low, with a big belt buckle and a white t-shirt. that was the only thing I actually recall wearing pre- laying.


Sharon would have liked to contribute to this discussion, but there is something about a drawer after drawer full of sweatshirts with puffy appliques of kittens on them (though tis the holidays, so we’ve moved into the christmas thematic sweatshirt drawer) that does not lend itself to attracting amorous young men.  However, the one with the silver angles on it does make a an absolutely Fah-bulous combination with the oatmeal-colored Knit Snowman Cardigan, all of which is based around the linchpin of Sharons wardrobe: the ankle-length denim skirt.

//Pro-tip for Sharon: Truckers arn’t picky.

Comment #111: Indy  on  12/11  at  07:17 PM

I find it instructive that a college student with limited resources could so easily find an abortion provider willing to encourage a thirteen year old victim of statutory rape to conceal the crime and seek an illegal abortion in another state.  Imagine what CBS could do.  There could be a story like that every week.

Comment #112: Bismarck  on  12/11  at  07:25 PM

I find it instructive that a college student with limited resources could so easily find an abortion provider willing to encourage a thirteen year old victim of statutory rape to conceal the crime and seek an illegal abortion in another state.  Imagine what CBS could do.  There could be a story like that every week.

Yep, just an average college student with limited resources who happens to be “president of a university pro-life group.”

This same Xtian fantasist con artist also confirms Amanda’s contention that frauds like this are “only part of an ongoing project with many examples of such conducts.” You’d think that a flood of similar videotapes would make the news, but strangely (in the midst of a supposed “infant killing rampage”) only the one is offered. What was that Amanda said?

what our now-banned troll neglected to note is that anti-choice groups run these stings non-stop, and almost never get any employee to break the rules.

If these stings are so successful, why do you think there isn’t a story every week—even in the Moonie Times?

And finally, the actual “abortion provider”—Planned Parenthood of Indiana—had this to say about their employee’s actions:

“We are deeply concerned about the content of the video the apparent actions of the employee would be in violation of our strict policies and procedures,”

Yeah, that really sounds like an out-of-control criminal organisation, hell-bent on breaking the law and flaunting the fact.

Bismark, at least try reading the original article and the comments before you try pulling this tiresome BS. Or are you as addicted to lies as Sharon and the anti-choice movement in general?

Comment #113: Gracchus  on  12/11  at  08:01 PM

Amanda:

Okay it’s sometimes fun for me to burn trolls, but I’m banning Sharon for threadjacking.  No doubt after the people who tell her what to think tell her to think this means I can’t handle the truth, she’ll blog that.

Actually, I think we should all go over to his/her blog and berate him/her about why he/she isn’t writing post after post about how hard it is to find the perfect pair of “fuck me” pants.

Comment #114: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  12/11  at  08:55 PM

Cannot… resist… swatting… troll…

This idea that getting a child an abortion, particularly without informing her parents, is pretty amazing, really. Considering that a 13-year-old isn’t allowed to get a tattoo or get her ears pierced without parental consent, it seems reasonable that parents should at least be informed that their daughter is having an abortion.

The idea that a child having an abortion is more significant than carrying to term is mind-boggling. It’s not OK for a 13-year old to have surgery, but it’s OK for her to become a parent?

/headdesk

Comment #115: Dolbia  on  12/11  at  11:06 PM

there is something about a drawer after drawer full of sweatshirts with puffy appliques of kittens on them

Finally, a kindred soul on this DEMONcrap hell-hole of a website!

Comment #116: Rugged in Montana  on  12/11  at  11:10 PM

Getting laid: my black shirt with the white buttons.  Personally, I think black buttons would be ‘way cooler, but I’m not going to mess with a winning formula.

(And the idea you can’t buy appeal is laughable: of COURSE you can.)

Comment #117: Eric, Rejector of Memez  on  12/12  at  12:49 AM

Even though Sharon’s been banned, I want to respond to something she said about some scenarios in which ‘abortion isn’t the best solution’ - who the fuck is anyone to make that judgment other than the pregnant girl/woman? I can’t work out if anti-choicers genuinely believe that pro-choicers think abortions are so awesome that everyone should have at least one, or if they’re deliberately misrepresenting us. Do they really not get that we believe the important thing is that female persons have the right to make that decision for themselves? Or is it that because they want to tell everyone what to do, then pro-choicers must want to do the same?

And this judicial bypass stuff—how is it not cruel to make a kid navigate the judicial system in order to prove that it would be dangerous for her to tell her parents she’s pregnant? I guess anti-choicers get a kick out of inflicting cruelty on evil whores who get themselves knocked up, since they deserve what they get. Parents own their daughters’ bodies, the government owns all womens’ bodies, and the most important thing is 1) that women are punished for having sex or being raped; and 2) foetuses (in that order).

Comment #118: stealthy cat  on  12/12  at  03:34 AM

I guess anti-choicers get a kick out of inflicting cruelty on evil whores who get themselves knocked up, since they deserve what they get.

This is NOT news.

Comment #119: Eric, Rejector of Memez  on  12/12  at  04:24 PM

Planned Parenthood has again been exposed as a sleazy organization; Sharon pointed it out with clarity and been banished for doing so.  Pandagon is the lesser for it.

Comment #120: Bismarck  on  12/12  at  04:36 PM

Planned Parenthood has again been exposed as a sleazy organization

Threadjacking isn’t sleazy?

Oh, that’s right!

How do you “thread-jack” unless the other commenters are interested in continuing the discussion?  Heck, I’d say that most threads on this fine site wind up going off on tangents at some angle.  As your favorite evil right-wing (or is that reich-wing; I never can remember) troll, I ask you to rescind the ban on Sharon.

Comment #122: Dana  on  12/13  at  01:39 AM

Dana, Sharon is a hateful, misogynistic, lying piece of shit.  “She” is also one of your followers.  You ought to thank us - Sharon being banned means more ass-kissing for you.

Comment #123: Blue Field Damian  on  12/13  at  06:28 AM

Get a life, Dana. Why do you and your friends want to hang out at liberal blogs so badly? We don’t go over to your ratholes and class up your conversations. I get that we’re a lot more interesting than your buddies, but it’s not our fault you hang out with a lame crowd. Fuck off and go be a loser somewhere else.

Comment #124: junk science  on  12/13  at  11:06 AM

Junk Science asked:

Why do you and your friends want to hang out at liberal blogs so badly?

Because of the polite conversation, perhaps?  smile

No, y’all are fun—and funny—to read, and it always pays to know what the opposition is thinking and doing.

Comment #125: Dana  on  12/13  at  11:18 AM

Dana, anyone who comments here is like a guest in a house.

To allow Sharon back would be like allowing an insulting, ignorant, accusative, demanding guest who tells you how one should run ones’ house inside.

Whatever your motives in commenting here, they apparently aren’t the same as Sharons’.

We certainly are fun and funny, and clearly provide you with a lot of entertainment. It’s too bad you never feel the inclination to return the favor. If nothing else, you could leave and stop stinking up the place, but I guess asking simple politeness from a Republican is like asking the dog to stop pissing on the couch.

Comment #127: junk science  on  12/13  at  06:31 PM
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