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Dual Bamboo Reviews: Zombieland and Whip It

Saw a couple of movies over the weekend, and I’m going to review them in order.

Zombieland

What can I say?  Unless you’re just too squeamish for zombie movies, this one is a must-see.  Sure, it’s ripping off Shaun of the Dead, but Shaun of the Dead was hardly an original idea, either.  Comedy horror films have been with us for a long time.  The key to making a good one is not skimping on either the jokes or the action, and Zombieland has plenty of both. 

Zombie movies must make one of two choices: will the zombies win or humanity?  That is, are we facing a zombie apocalypse or can the problem be contained?  Shaun went the route of the first Night of the Living Dead, where the last scenes imply that humanity was able to rally and kill off the zombie menace. But Zombieland is sending up the apocalypse movies, such as the other Living Dead films and most notably, 28 Days Later.  Like 28 Days Later, these zombies can run and are rage-a-holics, and they are also not dead, but victims of a virus that wipes out most of humanity.  It also borrows heavily from the concept of the Zombie Survival Guide, in that the hero and narrator has a bunch of rules of survival that are pretty fucking hilarious.  (#1: Cardio.)  For zombie fans, there are some funny innovations to geek out over, such as their brilliant plan to hide out in Beverly Hills. I wish I’d thought of that and sold a screenplay.  A lot of houses in Beverly Hills are practically fortresses, and they’re well-spaced and well-stocked.  I won’t give any more away, but that’s just one example of how clever this movie is.

This movie has a little love story in it, and the narrator has Nice Guy® tendencies (that are offset by the fact that the writing is so funny that you’re too busy laughing to be annoyed), and the scenes focusing on that feel like a drag.  But that’s mostly because they rob Woody Harrelson of screen time to kill zombies.  Admit it; that’s the selling point of the movie, and it delivers on what the trailer promised.  Zombies are killed in entertaining and hilarious ways.  They don’t even try to make Harrelson’s character realistic.  He’s a lean, mean, zombie-killing machine of epic proportions.  The other characters hold their own—-it’s always a relief when zombie movies realize that female survivors would have to be as quick with a firearm as male survivors, and this movie not only has two women who can shoot zombies, but one is 12—-but Harrelson is cartoonishly awesome. 

Don’t watch if you’re easily squicked out or could never find apocalyptic scenarios funny.  The zombie grossness is all front-loaded and then it moves more into action and less into scenes of zombies yanking tendons with their teeth, but you’re still going to see some of that.  But for everyone else, this movie is a welcome, inventive comedy.

Whip It

I hesitated to see this film, because I thought that it would sanitize, in order, Austin and roller derby, but I liked the cast so much I gave it a chance.  I’m really glad I did, and am saddened to see that the reviews are middling, and in exactly the way you’d expect when the screenwriter, director, and most of the lead actors are all female—-no one wants to be seen as being easy on director Drew Barrymore because she’s a girl, so they overcompensate and hold her to a standard way higher than a male director of her talent would be held.  Indeed, I saw a lot of reviews that obsessed over Barrymore’s pedestrian directing in a way that’s unusual for reviewers to obsess over directing in genre films.  It wasn’t Oscar-winning or anything, but it wasn’t distracting, and that’s as much as I want when the script is as good as this one.  When looking at the reviews, remember that women often have to be twice as good to be taken half as seriously, and revise your expectations accordingly.  Certainly, the gender ratio in the audience showed that the coveted demographic of males 18-45 were not interested in giving this movie a chance.  Not that there were no men there, but they were no more than a quarter of the audience—-and that’s for a movie that takes place in the city I watched it in! 


In fact, as an aside, we experienced one of the more surreal moments you can during a movie.  I saw this movie at the Alamo Drafthouse Ritz, and in the movie, two characters go on a date to the Ritz, and you see them sitting in the exact same theater we were sitting in.  The audience had a moment there, and then cheered.  What else are you going to do?

My fears about Austin or roller derby being sanitized were overblown.  The screenwriter is herself a former roller derby girl, and so they take great pains to show how roller derby is situated in a larger punk rock subculture.  They might have overdone the Texas thing just a little bit—-at points, I was like, we get it this in Texas, we didn’t forget—-but I’d far rather have that than them not even trying to showcase the unique aspects of the culture here.  Anyway, it’s true that you’d see men wearing loud suits with cowboy boots and women who are fond of wearing way too much black leather—-all guzzling Lone Star—-at the roller derby.  The only detail that felt off to me was the tattoos they covered the actresses in.  Too many of them looked like they were taken off the first page in a cliches of tattooing book, but I suppose that’s the sort of detail that most people who don’t live in the most tattooed city in the country would pick up on.  A minor thing, and I admit I was won over by the way the movie was a love letter to my city.

It’s the standard issue sports film in most ways: loser team gains neophyte with natural talent, starts to win, big climax at the championship, nothing new there.  But it felt fresh, because the writing was funny, and the people—-the half-employed slackers of Austin—-are not the sort of people you see glamorized in movies, and especially not when they’re women.  It was a lot more feminist than I would have expected.  I was really startled by that.  Elements that blew my mind and made me very happy:

*Female characters talk to each other about everything that real women do.  The Hollywood convention where women spend all their time obsessing over men is not present here.  Sure, they talk about men, but the subject doesn’t get more attention than other, equally pressing issues.  They talk about work, school, their parents, their friends, their hobbies, and…..feminism.  That word isn’t used, but the idea that a young woman’s rebellion against conformity might have something to do with the stifling nature of roles for women is explicitly dealt with.

*The mother/daughter antagonism is dealt with in a humanizing way, instead of falling on the old cliche that dewy young women are heroes and older women are witches.  The mother is even allowed to have her vices and her sexuality.  And a job!  Most of Hollywood seems to forget that women have to work to eat, but every woman in this movie had a job, and most of them were boring, workaday jobs.

*The movie is about a woman finding herself through not just work, but competition.  And real competition, not cattiness—-one character actually says she wants to win in a fair fight on the rink, not by using the catty methods of sabotage and back-biting.  Women competing honorably, women exhibiting ambition, and above all, women finding themselves not through a man or a baby, but through doing what they love?  Why aren’t there more movies like this?

*Spoiler.  The girl doesn’t get the guy at the end, and that doesn’t detract from the happy ending at all.

*The best friend character is shown as someone who gets all As, strives to get into a good college, and yet, she’s not characterized as a desexualized nerd, but a self-confident, sexy young woman.

Why aren’t there more movies like this?  Well, like I said, the audience was mostly female, and we’re not a target demographic, so I guess I have my answer.  But this movie was leagues above other female-loaded comedies like Sex and the City that still fall into the cliches about how life is mostly about men, marriage, and babies.  Not that the characters in the movie don’t have men, marriage, and babies, but that’s not how they’re defined.  And it feels completely natural.  Plus, Kirsten Wiig gets to show off that she has acting chops beyond just being droll and funny, so bonus. 

Jos at Feministing also reviews it.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:49 AM • (46) Comments

I was waiting for this Whip It review. I had hoped you’d enjoy it as much as I did. But there’s another good bullet point: She has sex, which she later regrets, but she’s in no way traumatized or punished for it. I also saw it at the Alamo Ritz, and enjoyed the same surrealism.

Comment #1: Seebach  on  10/04  at  12:08 PM

Colombus does have Niceguy tendencies, but without the sense of misogynist entitlement that often accompanies them.  That made him tolerable IMO.  Plus, zombies!

Comment #2: kmeyer57  on  10/04  at  12:26 PM

Also, I just have to say I am in love with Ellen Page. This is pretty much her third obviously feminist film. And she says this in interview:

“I call myself a feminist when people ask me if I am, and of course I am ‘cause it’s about equality, so I hope everyone is. You know you’re working in a patriarchal society when the word feminist has a weird connotation. “Hippie” has a weird connotation. “Liberal” has a weird connotation.”

Comment #3: Seebach  on  10/04  at  12:38 PM

I can stand Columbus because he’s a reforming Nice Guy. I mean, one of his early lines is “Before Zombieland I used to treat people as if they were zombies. Now that they’re zombies, I kind of miss people.” He’s probably the character the target audience (young male geeks into zombie films) is supposed to identify with, so any hint of ‘grow up will you’ in the subtext of the film is fine by me, even if he needs to be some WoW shut-in before the zombapocalypse.

There is of course a bit of wish fulfillment fantasy in the character of Tallahassee for all the glibertarian geeks who wish to be survivalists in a post-apocalyptic world, but for once the bad ass character is humanized and *he fucking cries on camera* which is, sad to say, slightly subversive.

So yeah, the only faults I can find in the movies is where it doesn’t go far enough from stereotypes, but overall it’s a pretty enjoyable fare. Also, the story is a bit flip-sided compared to most zombie movies. Things start as known to be utterly hopeless but (spoilers)

the group lives on, with no casualties. Usually it’s the reverse, things start with a glimmer of hope that maybe there’s some civilization left, but then group slowly disintegrates under pressure and attrition.

Comment #4: BlackBloc  on  10/04  at  01:10 PM

Just a random thought: I’ve always wanted to know what would happen if some girls tried to set up a high school roller derby club.

Comment #5: BrianX  on  10/04  at  01:13 PM

It’d get shut down because it’s a dangerous sport. But so is football, of course but that double standard persists.

Comment #6: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/04  at  01:28 PM

Amanda:

Sadly, yes it would. But someone should try. I’d be surprised if there wasn’t demand.

Comment #7: BrianX  on  10/04  at  01:43 PM

I agree in general with point about women having to work twice as hard to get taken half as seriously, but based on your elevated opinion of Diablo Cody, one could almost believe that you give women in Hollywood too much leeway. At any rate, I thought Juno was poorly written before I knew that it was written by a woman.

Comment #8: Triplanetary  on  10/04  at  01:49 PM

Whip It is getting a very good 81% from Rottentomatoes, Zombieland an astounding 90%.  October and January used to be shit months for movies along with September and February, when Hollywood dumped their unwatchable crap, but this month there’s almost too many movies i’d like to see.

Comment #9: pablo  on  10/04  at  01:51 PM

And a job!  Most of Hollywood seems to forget that women have to work to eat, but every woman in this movie had a job, and most of them were boring, workaday jobs.

Not just women. One of my major peeves with movies is that unless the job is integral to the plot, you hardly ever see characters working, or even mention their job,  and no matter what their job they live in fabulous apartments in NYC.  I understand that’s the Hollywood fantasy, but it makes it difficult for me to sympathized with characters who seem to be on permanent vacation.

Oh, and when work is mentioned, why are so many people in movies and TV, architects?

Comment #10: pablo  on  10/04  at  02:00 PM

And another thing the movie recognized as normal and natural you don’t see much in other movies: That women over 30 do not dry up and die.  Almost all the roller derby girls in the movie, like in life, are in their late 20s through their 40s.  Juliette Lewis’s character notes that she’s 36.  They have crow’s feet and there’s no attempt to hide that.  And yet here they are being portrayed as physically capable and powerful, and also insanely sexy.  Which, of course, they are.

Comment #11: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/04  at  02:35 PM

Also, Triple: I thought the first half of Juno was corny and forced, but the second half really hit a stride, especially the way Juno gets exploited by that older man who is using her because he’s too much of a coward to either commit to his marriage or leave it.  That was insightful and touching.

I don’t know where you get the idea that I won’t criticize women.  Like most people, I’ve internalized a lot of sexism, and I know that I have to be on guard about being too harsh on women where I wouldn’t be on men.  I was reluctant to see Whip It, then wary of it, then embarrassed that I wanted to see it and then ashamed, as I watched it, of the prior three reactions that were clearly a part of ingrained sexism.  That and Drew Barrymore can’t act, so I didn’t think she could direct.

Comment #12: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/04  at  02:41 PM

Oh, and when work is mentioned, why are so many people in movies and TV, architects?

My theory?  It’s seen as an artsy-type occupation (thus indicating the character has Soul(tm) and Vision(tm)), but is technical enough so that they avoid the trap of being an Artist (thus a useless git).  Theoretically, it’s also a job that means you can work from a home office or a professional office, thus allowing whatever the plot demands in terms of whether the character is home all the time or at work.

Comment #13: KeithM  on  10/04  at  02:42 PM

That and Drew Barrymore can’t act, so I didn’t think she could direct.

Ditto Ben Affleck.

Comment #14: pablo  on  10/04  at  03:10 PM

Heh, I really just glimpsed at the scores on Metacritic, but reading the pull out sentences, I see at least one reviewer that hated it explicitly states that he doesn’t enjoy watching women be powerful

Comment #15: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/04  at  03:19 PM

The moment we heard Zoe Bell was in Whip It, the husband and I decided we will be seeing this.  Plus, for some reason I’ve always had a soft spot for Drew Barrymore (if not her actual films), and the story is interesting, the fact that she’s directing is intriguing, and we’re massive fans of the original Rollerball, so…it’s a popcorny must-see.

Comment #16: Ranylt  on  10/04  at  04:58 PM

I’m seeing both of these movies this week, to recover from writing a brief and taking a final for a short course in law school.  I saw The Invention of Lying this weekend, and liked it a lot.  I hope we get to hear the pandagonian bloggers’ thoughts on that one too.

It’s shockingly irreligious.

Comment #17: Ferox  on  10/04  at  05:01 PM

That and Drew Barrymore can’t act, so I didn’t think she could direct.

Indeed, though her character mostly just beats people up, so the fact that she doesn’t act well didn’t ruin the movie.

I really liked this movie and will be recommending it far and wide.  Very smart, plus lots of fun action sequences.  Plus Ellen Page, who is so unbelievably awesome.

Also, not only did the movie show 30-something women who actually looked like normal people in their thirties, they also had a fair number of the roller girls who were not rail thin or “athletic” body type.  Some were definitely “stout” or “chubby” or whatever word you might use, which I imagine might be an advantage in knocking people over.

Comment #18: LauraB  on  10/04  at  06:26 PM

I saw The Invention of Lying this weekend, and liked it a lot.

I thought the trailers for that were *awful.* The line “the world is going to end unless we have sex right now!” skeeved me the fuck out—did they actually end up having sex? ‘Cause I pretty much decided that if he actually went through with it then I’m never watching, but if he didn’t then I’ll give it a chance.

Comment #19: Bagelsan  on  10/04  at  07:09 PM

Yeah, LauraB, a good roller derby team has a diversity of body types.  Small, fast women make good jammers, and tall or stout women make good blockers.

Comment #20: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/04  at  07:13 PM

I thought the trailers for that were *awful.* The line “the world is going to end unless we have sex right now!” skeeved me the fuck out—did they actually end up having sex? ‘Cause I pretty much decided that if he actually went through with it then I’m never watching, but if he didn’t then I’ll give it a chance.

He doesn’t have sex with her.  He realizes pretty much immediately he’s done something wrong, and escapes, afterward calling it the worst experience of his life and resolving to be more careful about lying.

The trailers actually almost entirely sidestep the main plot of the movie, which is about religion.

The romantic plot of the movie is… hrm.  Rob Lowe plays an attractive asshole, whom the girl likes, and Ricky Gervais is the nice friend she’s not physically attracted to.  But I didn’t get any of the big Nice Guy flags going up, despite all that.  The protagonist never acts like he’s entitled, he just thinks Rob Lowe’s an asshole.  Pretty much everyone in the world the movie’s set in is completely shallow, because without fiction, there’s no depth to people’s understanding of each other.  Everything’s right there on the surface.

I liked the movie, and I thought it had good stuff to say about lying, relationships, and religion.  But the audience reaction was definitely mixed.

Comment #21: Ferox  on  10/04  at  07:32 PM

I treated myself to Zombieland and Whip It in the same day and enjoyed both of them (though I will say I thought the ending of Zombieland was kinda a let down, then again, I don’t like it when characters do stupid things they should know not to do, but overall it was awesome).

When watching Whip It, I kept having this nagging feeling that I couldn’t put my finger on till half way through and then I realized what had been bothering me was that most of the people in the film were normal looking. And I felt bad about that but then realized I had been watching so many movies and TV shows were everyone is always the standard of beauty that I’m not used to seeing just normal people. After that, I gained a greater appreciation for Barrymore and the producers for even getting something like that sold to a studio without having to compromise (if they didn’t). Good on her.

And yes, I was surprised to see the mom character actually doing her job, and wearing her “dowdy” Postal uniform. Working in TV, as writers we’re constantly told to not make anyone, especially woman, look “bad” at their job, whether it’s through fashion or the physical act of doing their job. And we’re also noted to death on not making mother characters “bad” mothers. They ALWAYS have to be perfect. It’s so goddamn frustrating.

Though, when I was watching this I flashed back to Bend It Like Beckham, where the mother character was always the stern traditionalist and the father was the one who wanted his daughter to fulfill her dreams. It made me wonder why, in sports movies like this, it seems to always be the mom character who wants their daughter to tow the line and the father who wants them to spread their wings. Is it that women know how hard it can be when you step outside the norm?

Either way, both movies were super fun and I’m looking forward to seeing Paranormal Activity tonight as well. Gotta get in as many movies as I can before we go back into the trenches.

Comment #22: UltraMagnus  on  10/04  at  08:01 PM

And thank Yahoo, for spinning Zombieland’s surprise success as “Whip It crashes and burns.” Wonderful.  Let’s just stop the pretending and sign over the next generation of girls to Hannah Montana already.

Comment #23: Seebach  on  10/04  at  08:03 PM

Just a random thought: I’ve always wanted to know what would happen if some girls tried to set up a high school roller derby club.

Probably the same thing that happened when we tried to get our ice hockey team affiliated with our high school. Cheer leading is considered a sport, therefore the number of sports for boys and girls was equal and they couldn’t add another sport for girls. Or something. It was probably some bullshit they told us because they didn’t want to pay for it.

Anyway, I absolutely loved Zombieland. It was so incredibly refreshing to have a zombie movie that wasn’t survival horror. The world doesn’t need another George Romero zombie morality movie.

Comment #24: Entomologista  on  10/04  at  08:04 PM

I didn’t see the ending of Zombieland as a stupid mistake so much as a giving up and trying to let the little girl have a trip to the amusement park (and a chance to be a kid one last time) before the inevitable happened.

Comment #25: Scott1960  on  10/04  at  08:23 PM

I think it’s sad that there’s so few non-romance movies where women are central to the story that I pretty much love any movie that is, but it’s true.  What if women being complex, interesting characters with their own hopes and goals besides finding a man or being a sidekick was normal?  Then maybe Whip It wouldn’t be so special.  And maybe it’s not that great of a film all in all; the sports movie storyline is a bit predictable.  But I can’t help loving it because of its totally (sadly) unique characterizations of women.  And yeah I thought it was really awesome that they made it a point to show the mother working and in her work uniform.

Comment #26: rebelliousjezebel  on  10/04  at  09:53 PM

I must see Whip It now!  Why oh why did I buy new pants?! *sad eyes* I gotta wait for the DVD.

Comment #27: Godless Heathen  on  10/04  at  10:42 PM

ok, i hate the fact that i am doing this.

there is a mis-characterization of Drew Barrymore, here.

it is not that she is incapable of acting - watch, say, Doppleganger, a shitty little movie where she was note-perfect.
it is that she was raked over the coals for acting, for trying to be “better than she was”, she was punished for every role that was “unconventional”, and gave up - realized that the only way to “win” was to play the same character over and over (smart, slightly ditzy,slightly crazy, so sweet viewers might develope diabeties, but able to be somewhat pointed in defense of those she loves, without ever crossing the line to “bitchy”) so that viewers just know her - and start working in areas behind the camera. she’s been producing for how long now? and, from what i hear, is pretty damned good at it.

it’s actually really damned sad, how she was attacked for years and years. people look at Drew Barrymore and see a “recovered child star”, and that’s about it - she became famous as a child, was in several movies as a child, hit “sexy”, and was villified. for years she was villified (sure, she was a drug addict. of a sort. that is actually the worst that can be said of her, which in Hollywood is deserving of Sainthood). and everytime she was in a film that didn’t fulfill certain stereotypes, she was directly and personally attacked. everytime she showed she could act, she was told she was a horrible selfish self-centered human being for *daring* to outshine fellow cast members.


but i do grant that, anymore, she DOES not act smile

Comment #28: denelian  on  10/04  at  11:05 PM

He doesn’t have sex with her.  He realizes pretty much immediately he’s done something wrong, and escapes, afterward calling it the worst experience of his life and resolving to be more careful about lying.

I’m relieved; that was kinda a deal-breaker for me. Maybe I’ll go watch now, ‘cause the premise is pretty intriguing (and it’s got stuff about religion, you say? Sign me up!)

There’s no way I can go watch Zombieland, sadly. I’d be cracking up during the movie but then I’d spend the night with every light in the house on and a bat clutched to my chest, staring at my locked bedroom door. :p

Comment #29: Bagelsan  on  10/04  at  11:39 PM

sure, she was a drug addict. of a sort. that is actually the worst that can be said of her, which in Hollywood is deserving of Sainthood

I’m pretty sure the worst thing that can be said of her is that she was briefly married to Tom Green.

and everytime she was in a film that didn’t fulfill certain stereotypes, she was directly and personally attacked. everytime she showed she could act, she was told she was a horrible selfish self-centered human being for *daring* to outshine fellow cast members.

Do you have examples of this?  I’m not doubting you, but I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Comment #30: jlk7e  on  10/05  at  02:33 AM

I loved it.  I mean, it’s not like the best movie ever, obviously, but I’ve seen plenty of “acclaimed” movies in the past couple years that weren’t as good. 

Oh, and when work is mentioned, why are so many people in movies and TV, architects?

My theory is that this is because so many Hollywood writers and producers are themselves children of Hollywood writers and producers, and don’t know the first fucking thing about the work that most of America does everyday. Well, maybe not exactly. But spend enough time on imdb and you’ll soon learn that a disproportionate amount of people who work in film and television grew up in white-collar professional families with sort of connection to the industry. And almost always in New York or LA. Not that I’m hating on these people, and of course, there are exceptions.

Comment #31: Hippie Killer  on  10/05  at  02:56 AM

jlk7e:
i will do what i can, but she’s a year older than i am, so i am sure i missed stuff.

she was the “sweet child actress” for ET, and the Firestarter.
and then (to my knowledge) didn’t do much until Poison Ivy, when she was about 16.
in Poison Ivy, she’s playing a character that is *messed up* in certain specific ways - she equates sex with love, and self-worth with ego - she becomes friends with another girl (the younger daughter from Roseanne), and then spends over an hour self-destructing in every way while somehow getting all the blame dumped on her new “friend” - she tattoos the friend (for which the girl’s father grounds her), takes her dog away, steals her “boyfriend interest”, seduces the friend’s dad - and she has at least 5 different, distinct “personalities”, that only the friend sees more than one of. it’s actually fairly breath-taking work in an incredibly anti-feminist piece of shit.

and of *course* everyone talked about how she was a slut and worse, and her taking this role just *proved* it, because everyone knows child actresses only know how to sell their bodies, and as they develope they will start to do this literally…

then she was in “Doppleganger” - playing the part of a woman who is being haunted and hunted by a creater that looks just like her (a doppleganger, in fact. who’d'a thunk it?). *EVERYONE* in the film assumes that she’s just crazy. it’s actually a bit of a shock to *see* the creature at the end. she wandered through the set, looking lost and forlorn - her eyes were always almost empty, with just a bare spark of terror left - it was incredibly nuanced, especially for a fairly-low-budget horror movie.

and of *course* she was an even worse slut, and a party girl, and she had sex with a man! no wait, she *didn’t* have sex with that man, how DARE she be a tease like that! only talentless-slut-wanna-be actress act in horror movies! and did you see how her bare back was shown? this just goes to prove that a child actress burns out with puberty, and forever after isn’t even worth seeing naked!

she got married, in a desperate bid to make people shut up. and got divorced for the same reason.

then she did “Scream”, then “EverAfter”, and found that playing a ditzy blonde who isn’t *stupid* but isn’t genius, who is sweet and light and never says a bad thing, was the way to go to get people to stop looking at her all the time (ok, i grant she wasn’t actually blonde in EverAfter - but she sure as fuck acted so most of the time!)
and actually, her performance in EverAfter was still a pretty damned good performance. i wasn’t even uncomfortable watching it (i look almost exactly like Drew Barrymore in that specific movie, except my hair is longer, and my chin is a bit smaller. i always have trouble watching her, because it’s like watching *me* do something stupid and moronic. not as a child - we look nothing at all alike until 16 or so, and no longer look exactly alike, because i have 4 feet of hair that is dark auburn and breasts. but we still look like sisters. and it still creeps me out. this is why i originally said “i hate to do this, but” because one of my favorite guilty-pleasures is “hating Drew Barrymore”. especially in “50 First Dates”, and the going-under-cover-in-a-highschool movie… no, really. i love to hate Drew Barrymore. because, i don’t know, because she caved and became the Sugar Queen, i think. not “hate” as in want to hurt, “hate” as in “want her to stop! be mean to someone who is mean to you! defend yourself aggressively! you stand up for women, stand up for yourself!” i have a bad habit of appologizing for everything. her’s is worse)

i am sure there’s a *LOT* of stuff i don’t know, because i didn’t notice, because i was too busy to care as a teenager.

but - i agree - Tom Green is the *real* worst. i just treat that like i treat the idea of Voltron with “cars” - like a bad idea that is so bad it could never happen smile

Comment #32: denelian  on  10/05  at  05:25 AM

Hmm - Denelian, let me recommend “Empire of Illusion” by Chris Hedges to you. I’m halfway through it, it’s about (so far) celebrity culture, and I think you’d find it interesting, possibly useful.

Comment #33: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  10/05  at  08:54 AM

wrong, because having sex with someone against their will is a worse moral transgression than stealing a sum of $800.  I thought that was obvious.

Comment #34: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/05  at  10:44 AM

He tells some self-serving lies out of desperation (and later tells lies to help others, that involve taking from a third party).  The money he takes from the bank isn’t brought up again, and there’s no real moral approbation attached to the act.

I do think taking $800 from a bank is a much less severe crime than rape by deceit, so I didn’t have a problem with it.  Given our relative sentencing for grand larceny versus sexual assault, though, I may be in the stark minority there.

Comment #35: Ferox  on  10/05  at  12:25 PM

To follow up, since the “we have to have sex or the world will end” moment is played up in the trailer as funny, and doesn’t match how it plays out in the movie very well:

It becomes immediately apparent that the woman believes, earnestly and truly, that she and everyone she loves will die unless she has sex with the main character.  He stops thinking it’s a cute trick (which he did before) and immediately tries to talk her out of it, which is pointless because she thinks the world is going to end.  She has no capacity for doubt.  So he has to tell another ridiculous lie and hoof it.

He starts telling lies that help people after that point.  The big lie he thinks is going to help someone is religious in nature, and gets the main plot of the movie rolling.

The women we see the most of are the love interest (Jennifer Garner), a fairly mean-spirited secretary (Tina Fey), and the main character’s mother.  The mother actually never says anything mean to anyone, that I can recall, which is strange (for the movie - pretty much everyone says mean stuff otherwise).  Tina Fey just gets the chance to say really mean things about Ricky Gervais with a deadpan delivery, which I appreciated personally.

Jennifer Garner’s cahracter is a little weirder.  Spoilers continue here, not that this reply hasn’t been full of them already.  She’s really worried about finding what she repeatedly refers to as a “good genetic match.”  She explicitly refers to her “biological clock” ticking away, and dismisses Gervais as a romantic interest because his genes will be for ugly fat kids.  And obviously the movie is on the side of Gervais’ character, so there’s just a whole mess of Nice Guy evo psych shit there.

But I think the movie navigates it without buying into either of those tropes of patriarchy.  People are evidently in love with each other without worrying about “genetic matches,” and Gervais’ character never acts entitled or resentful toward Garner’s.  It’s not perfect, from a feminist standpoint, by any means.  But I think the main story, about deception (and self-deception), and how both those things are necessary to some extent, is a really good one.  And the romance subplot doesn’t distract from it too strongly, and is in itself pleasant enough.

I liked the movie a lot, and I think it’s especially good considering it’s Gervais’ first feature film for both writing and directing.  I just wanted to explain some of the stickier points for interested readers.

Comment #36: Ferox  on  10/05  at  12:40 PM

The terrible attendance at the WNBA finals this year, where even free tickets were going unclaimed, demonstrates the problems professional women athletes have when playing sports developed by and for men. Woman have spontaneously developed few sports, but the ones they were involved in, tennis and ice skating, for example, are popular. It is doubtful roller derby will become a durable women’s sport, because it is doubtful women will become its dominate fan base.

Comment #37: mnsr  on  10/05  at  02:17 PM

Colombus does have Niceguy tendencies, but without the sense of misogynist entitlement that often accompanies them.

I thought that it was inherent in the definition of being a NiceGuy(TM) that there was misogynist entitlement . . . ?

Comment #38: Forrester  on  10/05  at  02:23 PM

Now repeat after me…deception is not coercion.

How about I don’t?  Like it or not, the purpose of deception is coercion.  That’s the point of lying—-you want someone to make a different choice than they would if they had the truth.  It’s actually part of rape laws in many states.  If you misrepresent your identity to someone in order to get them to have sex with you, you can be charged with rape. 

That’s why abstinence-only is, if you think about it, a passive kind of sexual coercion.  It’s about lying to kids to trick them into either abstaining when they wouldn’t otherwise (unlikely) or get pregnant against their will (more likely).  That’s coercion.

Comment #39: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/05  at  02:38 PM

I saw this movie at the Alamo Drafthouse Ritz, and in the movie, two characters go on a date to the Ritz, and you see them sitting in the exact same theater we were sitting in.  The audience had a moment there, and then cheered.  What else are you going to do?

I’m wondering if there will be a moment like that in the new Coen brothers movie RE: Minnesota.
There were a lot of them in Fargo that’s for sure.

Comment #40: Danica Lefse Queen  on  10/05  at  02:52 PM

I’ll try to see “Whip It”.

Juno was mildly amusing.  However, I got very annoyed that the Mom never mentioned “What about Birth Control?” when Juno tolder her the news.  Big Missed Opportunity.

Comment #41: lc224  on  10/05  at  03:07 PM

uh, I’m with chet.

“I’m your doctor, so you have to trust me: I need to engage in a lengthy pelvic exam in order to determine if you have potentially fatal cancer,” when there’s no medical reason for the exam, is sexual assault.  Laws have been written in a number of states specifically to include that sort of assault.  In some states, the sort of lie I told above isn’t a legally punishable offense, and if you think that’s a good thing, we just don’t have any common ground.

The laws are carefully written (or at least, the attempt is to write them carefully, usually working off of the model penal code), so that it’s rapists being punished.

But that you would even compare lying to coerce someone into sex (pretending to be a cop, lying about medical facts) to claiming to be 29, something women are “prone” to lie about, is a definite wtf-inducing statement.

Comment #42: Ferox  on  10/05  at  04:29 PM

@49: So you’re incapable of reading for comprehension as well. What a surprise! Ferox’s example was of an actual doctor committing sexual assault.

And hey! Guess what! If you’re lying to fool someone into thinking that there is going to be a grievous consequence to saying no, that is coercion.

Comment #43: SuzanneM  on  10/05  at  06:03 PM

But it felt fresh, because the writing was funny, and the people—-the half-employed slackers of Austin—-are not the sort of people you see glamorized in movies, and especially not when they’re women.

To be fair, wasn’t there a movie about slackers in austin… called slacker?

Comment #44: cedarcrane  on  10/05  at  10:05 PM

Actually, to nitpick, he stole only $300, if I recall. His account showed a $500 balance. Rape via deception is worse than stealing $300 from a bank.

Comment #45: Seebach  on  10/05  at  10:07 PM

Best kick ass angry zombie movie ever was Night of the Comet.  Very camp though.

wsott - I’m with the others; you are an ethical moron (one who is moronic about ethics) and really messed up with that statement about lies.  And no, I have never lied about my age nor about my weight on purpose, though I have had to answer that I didn’t know and guess if someone really needed to know. 

You are however correct, IMO, that the woman you discribed is a cheater, not a rapist, but that is because she is not lying to coerce someone to permit a sexual act.  It also makes her a creep and a loser, IMO, and that is as someone who thinks open marriages are just fine when everyone agrees to them.

Comment #46: helen w. h.  on  10/08  at  07:36 PM
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