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Economic indicators: Generic foods

EconomyFood

Via Stephen at Cogitamus, it appears that the economic downturn has been good for one sector of the economy—-generic brands on the grocery shelves.  (Also, Spam sales are up and Bon Appetit named peanut butter the dessert of the year.)  The shift to generic strikes me as a big one.

The number of people switching to the private-label foods packaged and sold by Kroger Co. at its stores has been increasing. The company runs 2,477 stores in 31 states. Some of its regional chains include Ralph’s, Fred Meyer and Food 4 Less…..

Based on its proprietary shopper-card data, Kroger found that 14% of its customers traded down to its corporate brand items for the quarter Nov. 8. It sells private-label goods in three separate price categories, competing for sales in everyday staples to pricier organic foods.


And that’s just last quarter.  I can only imagine what this quarter will bring.  Last time I shopped at a Kroger outlet, I found their generic stuff mostly unappealing.  We’re lucky to have HEB here in Austin.  They have two lines of generics, the HEB line and the Hill Country line, with the former being better quality and usually a little more expensive, though still less than the name brand stuff and often better quality.  Because of this, I have to wonder if they’re going to see much of a spike in their generic sales, because I’m sure people were already buying generic.  (I know I was—-even their paper products are better than the name brand stuff.)  You never know, though.  A lot of people are wed to their brand name stuff because marketers have managed to manipulate us that well, and so maybe there’s an untapped market that, strangled by high grocery prices, will move over.  I don’t know what I’m going to do, though.  I’m cheap no matter what the economic situation looks like.

Companies including Kraft Foods , H.J. Heinz and Sara Lee Corp. used the spike in agricultural grains and energy to help justify product-price increases to grocery retailers earlier this year.

Of course, the price of corn and oil has gone down, but the grocery store prices have stayed high, as far as I can tell.  For most of us, that sort of spike in prices at the store means that our bank accounts dwindle faster every month than they did before, and so I contest strongly the idea that it’s “fear” that’s causing people to tighten their purse strings.  It’s probably the word “broke” that better describes the situation, and I’m referring to people who haven’t seen any change in their employment status. 

This item was a very telling one that gets, in my mind, to why just simply preaching at people to eat at home more often to save money and for their health might be missing the point.

Grocery stores have been targeting shoppers with more ready-to-eat meals in a bid to capture business from restaurants, which face declining sales in the current economic downturn with more people eat at home.

I’ve noticed this, as well, but unfortunately, most of these ready-to-eat meals aren’t a whole lot healthier than something you’d get in a restaurant.  What this says to me, though, is that people don’t eat out so much because they want to, but because cooking and cleaning up are just time-consuming and they don’t have that kind of time.  After you have gone through a commute to and from work and worked all day, the last thing you want to do is more work.  And that’s fair. There’s something sick about the idea that your average American shouldn’t want a few hours to herself every night to pursue a hobby, watch TV, or read a book.  I think this also explains why, as people cook less on average, there’s more books and TV shows dedicated to cooking.  Because there’s a minority of people for whom cooking is the hobby they pursue to unwind.  But it’s still a lot of work.  I like cooking, and I work at home so presumably I can (and I do) multi-task by cooking and working, but even with all these advantages, I still find myself leaning heavily these days on something I can just throw together so I have some time to veg out and give the brain a rest. 

These are problems for which there’s no simple solution.  But we’re in an economic crisis, so it’s time for people to start thinking big. 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 01:17 PM • (150) Comments

*shrug* Some of the Kroger generic stuff is as good as or better than the name brand.

Comment #1: annejumps  on  12/11  at  01:25 PM

Walmart…...can’t be beat for generic. Though the local meat market has boneless boston butt pork roast for 1.09/lb.  Carnitas for a week.

Comment #2: campionrules  on  12/11  at  01:31 PM

I should say Walmart generic is cheap and decent….obviously not as good as some name brand but good in a pinch.  Our local superstore’s prices have plummeted the last two weeks.

Comment #3: campionrules  on  12/11  at  01:35 PM

I’m having Repo Man flashbacks.

Comment #4: TomHilton  on  12/11  at  01:45 PM

My family has relied on Target generics for years.  Especially with OTC meds - the Target line is often a third the price of the name brand.

Comment #5: Lee  on  12/11  at  01:47 PM

TomHilton—me too… I was going to ask if that was the beer from Repo Man.

Comment #6: Mighty Ponygirl  on  12/11  at  01:48 PM

maybe it’s just because i only ever ate home-cooked meals growing up, but i can’t for the life of me understand the mindset of not -wanting- to cook.

after a cold, dark slog on my bike home from the bakery i work at, what could possibly be more pleasant than mixing a strong drink, putting some music on, and taking an hour or two to make a really first-class dinner? if the whole thing costs more than $7 or $8 a night, i’d be stunned.

in the time it takes to watch one of those awful cooking shows on the food network, you could’ve made an entire meal.

Comment #7: ibaien  on  12/11  at  01:48 PM

Ibaien, I think it depends on what you’re used to, in terms of both quality of food and effort in making it. However, I also think that kitchen skills, or lack thereof, are one more thing that women tend to get shamed over. A man who can cook is fawned over, but cooking skills are still expected of women.

I myself have a love-hate relationship with cooking. I like the results, but I have to be in the mood to cook — I have to have the energy. You may find it relaxing; I don’t. I find it to be a production. And I cook only for myself; cooking for others requires a lot more mental energy.

Comment #8: Nobody in Particular  on  12/11  at  01:54 PM

I’m with Mighty Ponygirl on this one - I cook and I enjoy cooking.  My wife & I usually make largeish meals so that we have planned leftovers for lunches to take in to work for the next couple of days.

Comment #9: mquirk  on  12/11  at  01:59 PM

After you have gone through a commute to and from work and worked all day, the last thing you want to do is more work. 

I really do like to cook, but if I get home at 7pm and nobody else has done anything towards preparing dinner, we pretty much have to consult the freezer oracle.

Comment #10: Ms Kate  on  12/11  at  02:00 PM

Oh, and leftovers?  What are those.  We have an adolescent in the house who mops up every last grain of rice.

Comment #11: Ms Kate  on  12/11  at  02:01 PM

The other day someone (namely, Tom Tomorrow) commented on how he couldn’t seem to find any sources for the news about the rise in spam sales other than a press release from the company itself: http://thismodernworld.com/4589
Hmm, ba-dum-dum, food for thought.

Comment #12: Catbus  on  12/11  at  02:02 PM

ibaien, and then you have to do the dishes.  That alone tends to scare me off cooking.  Sometimes, I feel like I can never keep up with all the dishes.

Comment #13: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  02:03 PM

That graphic reminds me of some movie news I heard: they’re making a sequel to Repo Man. Not sure whether I want to look in the boot of that cinematic Chevy Malibu.

There’s a niche for quality store brands/generics, and the sweet spot seems to be similar to the HEB line you mention. Where the grocery chains often fail is not using their ads buys to promote that quality and turn their high quality line into a status brand.

The Trader Joe’s chain carries almost nothing but high-quality/reasonably priced store brand products, and they do an incredible business. Fairway in NYC operates on a similar basis, balancing out in-house brands with “curated” name brands.

My rule of thumb for identifying these kinds of stores: if there are a lot of healthy looking senior citizens in the regular clientelle, I’m in the right place.

Comment #14: Gracchus  on  12/11  at  02:04 PM

I will say the audience for your cooking will make or break you on whether or not you like it.  If you’re only cooking for yourself, you can experiment without foisting your disasters on someone else, you can eat what you want without having to worry about someone else’s preferences, and you can eat the same thing 500 times in a row if you want.  The more people you add to the equation, the more pickiness to work around, the more complaints about lack of variety, and the more you have to wrangle everyone to be in one place at one time.  I know by the time I was in high school, my mother just gave up on this last one and would put the food out for family members to just grab when they wanted.  But she still had to wrangle our sorry asses to do the dishes.  It’s a lot of work.

Comment #15: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  02:10 PM

I’ve always bought generics whenever possible—I usually shop at Kroger and Target.  Many are virtually indistinguishable from the name brand and cost less. 

I loved cooking until I started working full time in an office, day after day after day.  When I come home from work I’m tired and don’t feel like cooking.  And driving all over town looking for specialty ingredients is not fun either.  But being vegetarian, there aren’t many good restaurant options, and with my husband currently unemployed, eating out is out of the question for the forseeable future.  We’re eating a lot of spaghetti.

Comment #16: annec  on  12/11  at  02:10 PM

Also, meal planning, which again is simple if it’s just you, but if you have picky eaters or people who complain about variety, winging it is not an option.

Comment #17: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  02:10 PM

Amanda wrote:

I think this also explains why, as people cook less on average, there’s more books and TV shows dedicated to cooking.

Not sure that this is a justifiable conclusion.  Other than the success of Rachel Ray, most of the cooking shows are the types of things fitting in niche cable channels; as channels proliferate, there’s a demand for more and more programming of all sorts.  (There’s an entire Food Network on cable.)

If memory serves, you’re a vegetarian; I wonder if that makes your grocery shopping—at least for food—less indicative of what most people experience.

Comment #18: Dana  on  12/11  at  02:13 PM

I recall from high school economics that the economy and generic brands always have an inverse relationship.

Comment #19: rowmyboat  on  12/11  at  02:13 PM

mquirk—I think you meant to say you were with ibaien and not me—unless you REALLY felt powerfully about an old Emilio Estevez movie. Which I can certainly understand.

That said, I’m also one of those “make mass quantities of food and eat the leftovers for the rest of the week” people. And I’m a foodie.

Comment #20: Mighty Ponygirl  on  12/11  at  02:15 PM

maybe it’s just because i only ever ate home-cooked meals growing up, but i can’t for the life of me understand the mindset of not -wanting- to cook.

I enjoy cooking (and I’m pretty good at it, IMNSHO), but when I get home exhausted and hungry an hour spent cooking isn’t all that appealing to me.  I still do it a lot of the time, but sometimes we end up relying on those very kind people who (for a price) are willing to cook a bunch of food and bring it to our door. 

I’ll second Gracchus’ rec for Trader Joe’s.  Their prepared foods are a cut above most others in flavor and health value, and they are pretty reasonable.

Comment #21: TomHilton  on  12/11  at  02:18 PM

I have always purchased genereric brands with a few excptions.  I don’t know if most generic foods are inferior to name-brand because I’ve never eaten the name-brand. 

My husband and I rarely eat in restaurants or eat ready-made meals because he’s an excellent cook (I do okay, too) and he is really good at keeping our freezer full of pasta/rice sauces and stews we can unthaw and have dinner ready in 30 min or less.  He takes one Saturday afternoon a month and cooks 4 or 5 things that provide 1/2 the meals we eat each week and I fill in the other days with meals I know how to make.  This is something I wish I had thought to do when I was single.  I don’t think we’d have the time or energy to eat at home, and eat well if he didn’t do this.  A few weeks into our marriage, after I had ceased eating out so much, I found I craved our home cooked meals and the restaurant stuff didn’t appeal to me much.

Comment #22: Olivia  on  12/11  at  02:18 PM

I’m surprised no one’s brought up ALDI yet. I feel like I should be an employee the way I promote it (I’m not, really!). It’s almost all their own generic brands and a few closeouts of name brands.

And it’s all way cheaper than even the grocery store generics, or even Wal-Mart. Seriously. And it’s ALMOST all just as good. I can’t do the fat-free coffee creamer or the generic diet coke, because it tastes more like diet pepsi. And the beer and wine aren’t too good - the Corona knock-off is from Guatemala, which raises all sorts of red flags.

But everything else is as good or better at half the price. Seriously - go! GO NOW!!

Comment #23: George  on  12/11  at  02:19 PM

It’s interesting noting the differences between my wife and her sister when it comes to cooking.  My wife will prepare fairly functional meals, enough to feed everybody, but fairly simple, without destroying the whole kitchen; when she cooks, dinner is two or three courses at most.  When her sister cooks, it’s like she’s cooking for a dinner party: five separate foods, much more elaborately prepared, and a fridge full of leftovers, all to feed the same number of people.  The kitchen is utterly destroyed with pots, pans, extra serving dishes, you name it.

Comment #24: Dana  on  12/11  at  02:19 PM

Dana, it’s true that my problems are different than other people’s.  They’re lesser, actually.  I’ve checked out the price of meat, and I have no idea how people can afford to eat that stuff.  Vegetarians actually skate by with smaller bills.  So, my experiences are not indicative, but certainly not in the way that people like yourself who want to deny that we’re in a crisis would like to believe.  I’m hurting less than average.

Comment #25: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  02:20 PM

Dana, I make one dish at the most, and I feel my kitchen is destroyed.  How “destroyed” a kitchen seems is a lot different if you’re the one cleaning it, I’d say.

Comment #26: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  02:21 PM

Also, how big it is.  Which I’ve never had a big kitchen.  I had a house that was built in 1955, too, and so obviously the kitchen was intended and almost surely used as a kitchen to make big, multi-dish family meals in it.  I can’t even imagine how much work that must have been for the women who’d lived in it before me.  (And men—-I bought it from a gay couple.  But they seemed to be eating out types, because they improved almost everything else in the house except the kitchen.)

Comment #27: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  02:23 PM

<em>Also, meal planning, which again is simple if it’s just you, but if you have picky eaters or people who complain about variety, winging it is not an option. <em>

I know there are some things people will just never like to eat, but I wonder at what point, financially, do members of a household just need to eat what’s put on the table no matter what it is.  I know some families (moms) will cook more than one meal to appease picky kids or spouses and I can’t understand that.  We ate what my mom cooked, period.  (Excluding the presence of allergies, of course).

Comment #28: Olivia  on  12/11  at  02:24 PM

Amanda wrote:

Also, meal planning, which again is simple if it’s just you, but if you have picky eaters or people who complain about variety, winging it is not an option.

Well, if it’s just for me, it used to be two packs of Cajun Chicken flavor Ramen Noodles and a can of Mountain Dew, but for the past several months, we haven’t been able to find any; did they discontinue the flavor?  The other flavors suck.

Comment #29: Dana  on  12/11  at  02:26 PM

Olivia, it depends on how willing you are to be a hardass about it.  Nagging and busting people’s ass is work. And so it’s a trade-off—-if it takes 10 minutes more to work around pickiness or 10 minutes (or longer) to yell at someone or send them to their room for pickiness, then the former starts to look easier.  If the picky eater is an adult, you have even fewer options.

Comment #30: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  02:28 PM

Raising rabbit will become a common pastime in post-American-Dream America for meat eaters.

Comment #31: tpx  on  12/11  at  02:29 PM

Our kitchen is big, but really poorly designed.  It’s 14’ x 14’, but counter space is at a premium, with doorways restricting usable space, and an entire wall that is useless for counter space.  We’d really like to redesign the whole thing.

Comment #32: Dana  on  12/11  at  02:30 PM

I guess my family isn’t very picky because I don’t remember my mom needing to be particularly hard-assed about meals.  There was occasionaly whining from us kids, and sometimes we left part of the meal untouched, but that was it.

Comment #33: Olivia  on  12/11  at  02:32 PM

tpx wrote:

Raising rabbit will become a common pastime in post-American-Dream America for meat eaters.

Won’t work. Our younger daughter wanted a bunny for Christmas last year, and despite my reservations, she got one.  Well, she loves that turd machine, and she’d cry for weeks if we had hosenpheffer!

Comment #34: Dana  on  12/11  at  02:34 PM

Sometimes I just think about having a plate of shrimp for dinner.

But all I really wanted was a Pepsi.

Comment #35: Viceroy Matt  on  12/11  at  02:37 PM

I’d love to cook, but am only able to cook for 12. Usually, this has not been a problem: I put some of the leftovers in the freezer for later, and Ms. F. takes some of them to work with her for lunch the next day. But now that we have a baby in the house, number one, it’s hard to get the time to cook, and number two, the leftovers option is right out. Ms. F. has to use her lunch break to pump breast milk, and it’s too difficult to do this and stand in line for the employee microwave in the same very short lunch hour. So there have been a lot of sandwiches in our diet lately.

We mostly shop at Publix and at the wonderful farmers market near Atlanta. The Publix generic brands are all very good and significantly cheaper—but in the built up areas of the city, groceries are often more expensive, so it’s sort of a wash.

Comment #36: felagund  on  12/11  at  02:38 PM

@ tpx—Actually, rabbit was already a staple of MID-American-Dream America, if you believe the Gallery of Regrettable Food (the other OTHER white meat). Won’t link to lileks ‘cause he’s a douche. But there are lots of images of rabbit meat in there.

Re: dishes. This is what keeps me from cooking. I love to cook—I find it meditative, inspiring, all sorts of lovely things. And folks tell me I’m damn good at it. But I just can’t keep up with the dishes—plus my kitchen is about 5’x7’, and I have (I measured) 36 sq inches of counter space.

At times I’ve actually contemplated becoming a pro chef, because it’s the only way I can cook without being responsible for the dishes. The hours, though, are killer.

Re: vegetarianism. MUCH cheaper. I pay about $100 a month in general groceries, and that includes household booze, paper goods, and food for the critter. ‘Course that’s up from $75 this time last year.

Comment #37: Well, what?  on  12/11  at  02:40 PM

Raising rabbit will become a common pastime in post-American-Dream America for meat eaters

Pets or Meat

We’d really like to redesign the whole thing.

Didn’t you read that Mona Charen NRO column Pandagon discussed? It’s your patriotic duty to spend, spend, spend. Show us how little you fear the economic downturn by doing the full renovation.

Comment #38: Gracchus  on  12/11  at  02:43 PM

Olivia wrote:

There was occasionaly whining from us kids, and sometimes we left part of the meal untouched, but that was it.

Well, my mother understood, but my maternal grandmother didn’t: you were expected to clean your plate, and you were going to sit there until you did.  Unfortunately, my grandmother liked to serve two of God’s mistakes, peas and lima beans.  I hate peas and lime beans!

Comment #39: Dana  on  12/11  at  02:44 PM

I’ve been converted into a huge Trader Joe’s fanatic now that I live on the left coast, where there are a whole lot more of ‘em than where I grew up, as well as more than where I went to school (both places solidly on the seaboard with actual seasons). It’s gotten so customary to examine the food itself instead of the label that I feel distinct culture shock when I go into a store like Wal-Mart or Safeway. One suddenly realizes just how stifling that veneer of labels and marketing text is.

Comment #40: EK  on  12/11  at  02:46 PM

I run an exclusively organic produce department in Fayetteville, AR, and I feel for ya’ll so much.  My staff and I have this sitting-on-the-lifeboat-whilst-the-titanic-sinks feeling since we eat such great food that we write off.  We are fortunate, and I’ve done a deal or five with distributors to get great deals for our owners (we’re a Co-op) and are helping them meal-plan through the department, but you can only do so much, you know?  You can sense the stress, and guilt, even in some, for the inability to feed their families as healthy as they would like.  I’m with the movement to make Michael Pollan Sec. of Agriculture.  A pipe dream is still a dream…

Comment #41: Zach  on  12/11  at  02:46 PM

Also, meal planning, which again is simple if it’s just you, but if you have picky eaters or people who complain about variety, winging it is not an option.

This.  Definitely this.  A picky eater turns cooking into a nightmare.  Especially if the eater thinks he’s a good backseat chef, constantly criticizing how you chop vegetables or starting arguments every night about when to put the chicken in the oven.

Aargh.

I never really enjoyed cooking, though I liked having the homemade meal.  Now I hate cooking and invest heavily in cereal, fruit and Lean Pockets.

Comment #42: deep6  on  12/11  at  02:47 PM

When the children are crying because their bellies are swollen with hunger, rabbits will not seem so cute as they are savory. Water cress and okra will aslo make big a comeback in America’s diet, as will flour fried in lard.

Comment #43: tpx  on  12/11  at  02:49 PM

Gracchus: Actually, we will, but we’re doing it ourselves.  $281 was spent on Saturday for materials, for the radiator cover/small counter in one corner.  Above that will be a new cabinet.  We’ll be rebuilding the kitchen slowly. 

There’s a single, six foot tall window right in the middle of the back wall.  If I replace it with a shorter bank of two or three windows, I think we could do a much better redesign, putting the sink underneath the windows; right now, that whole wall is wasted space.  But I’d have to rip out a good section of wall to install them, and redo the exterior vynil siding once I was done; the carpentry is within my skill level, but I’ve never fooled with vynil siding—and it would be sixteen feet up in the air on the outside!

Comment #44: Dana  on  12/11  at  02:51 PM

And not only have I never worked with vinyl siding, I never learned to spell it, either!  smile

Comment #45: Dana  on  12/11  at  02:55 PM

Store brands have really come a long way.  G. cringed at the idea of buying the store brand peanut butter because he remembers his mom coming home with the nasty generic version in the 1970s/1980s, but it was sufficiently cheaper that he gave it a try and, fortunately for everyone, it was much better these days.

I’ve noticed that store brand frozen dinners have started appearing:  Target and Vons (Safeway) have them.  Of course, I’m still pissed off at Safeway about the grocery strike so I won’t shop there anymore, but they look pretty good when my co-workers bring them in.

I like to cook when I’m in the mood, but I’m a very messy cook and it gets tedious having to clean marinara off of the ceiling.  (No, I don’t know how it got up there.  G. already asked.)  So we end up eating a lot of Lean Cuisines.

Comment #46: Mnemosyne  on  12/11  at  02:57 PM

Water cress and okra will aslo make big a comeback ...

We eat okra regularly in a Nigerian dish with goat meat (cheaper than beef).  Actually, Nigerian meals (my husband is from there) are generally cheap and filling as they are served with rice or pounded yam - yam flour that is cooked to a doughy consistancy used to scoop up the main dish.  A small serving fills you up for hours.

Comment #47: Olivia  on  12/11  at  02:58 PM

I think we could do a much better redesign, putting the sink underneath the windows; right now, that whole wall is wasted space.

In the meantime, you could get some kind of modular countertop space going there. Build yourself an island-on-wheels, store wine glasses (or bottles) underneath, top with a butcher block. (At night I dream of giant kitchens.) That way, it expands your prep space—not as well as relocating the sink, but a start—but can be easily dismantled if you’re ever in a position to redo the wall.

Comment #48: Well, what?  on  12/11  at  02:59 PM

Actually, we will, but we’re doing it ourselves.  $281 was spent on Saturday for materials, for the radiator cover/small counter in one corner.  Above that will be a new cabinet.  We’ll be rebuilding the kitchen slowly.

The construction industry may frown on your counter-productive (heh) do-it-yourself attitude, but your bravery is surely appreciated by your free market comrades at the National Review!

It sounds like eliminating the full windows would make sense. Maybe do the demolition and carpentry yourself, and hire a company to re-do the siding? I hear it’s a competitive business so you’d probably get a good price—especially as things get more desperate post-Xmas.

Comment #49: Gracchus  on  12/11  at  03:00 PM

I’m surprised no one’s brought up ALDI yet. I feel like I should be an employee the way I promote it (I’m not, really!). It’s almost all their own generic brands and a few closeouts of name brands.

ALDI is pretty cool.  But it’s hard to shop there when you’ve got a couple kids in tow; especially bagging.  Maybe when the 2 year old is no longer a 2 year old. . .

They also have great deals on beer, wine and bubbly.

Comment #50: Stephen Suh  on  12/11  at  03:12 PM

It helps that most generic foods are no longer white with black labels, though I remember seeing those when I was a kid. Store brands are much less conspicuous and don’t have the stigma attached; you’re not poor, just “thrifty.” I still refuse to buy generic soda, because it’s nasty, but anything else is fair game, why not?

I wish my husband or I were organized enough to cook up food once a week. We just discovered he’s gluten-allergic; combine that with my semi-vegetarianism and our son’s aversion to meat, and it’s just kind of complicated.

Comment #51: emjaybee  on  12/11  at  03:13 PM

Didn’t you read that Mona Charen NRO column Pandagon discussed? It’s your patriotic duty to spend, spend, spend. Show us how little you fear the economic downturn by doing the full renovation.

Then, when you go broke, prepare to be tsked at by the same people who encouraged you to spend no matter what, this time for not exercising more personal responsibility!

Comment #52: annejumps  on  12/11  at  03:14 PM

Also, meal planning, which again is simple if it’s just you, but if you have picky eaters or people who complain about variety, winging it is not an option.

If the chef is a picky eater, it’s no easier to plan solo. I’ve had many meals scotched because I don’t have the appropriate shape of pasta handy.

Comment #53: Scott de B.  on  12/11  at  03:15 PM

Stop and Shop introduced a new valu-brand early this year, so they get points for being in front. But, as reported elsewhere, they are also aware and acting on the fact that the biggest increase in supermarket spending is for hot-to-go food.

And, to make those of us in certain age and geographic ranges cringe: Sun Glory.

Comment #54: ThresherK  on  12/11  at  03:15 PM

I’ve been doing the shopping and cooking at our house for years.  I can say with 100% certainty that name brands are for suckers.

Comment #55: bikelib  on  12/11  at  03:23 PM

Oh man, I LOVE HEB. Love love <3 love. Whenever I travel to visit out of state, and I walk into one of their shitty grocery stores…ohhh my god. Yuck.

I also buy generic even in sunny times, so we’ve got that in common too, Amanda.

Comment #56: MH  on  12/11  at  03:23 PM

Suckers and snobs.

Comment #57: bikelib  on  12/11  at  03:24 PM

When we do cook, we usually spend a Sunday afternoon cooking up a few dishes (usually Indian food, as the bf is both Indian and a fabulous cook) and putting them up in Tupperware in the fridge. Then all we have to do when we get home from work is make rice, heat up some of the food, and bingo, we have dinner.

What I really wish I had, though, is a side-by-side fridge & freezer. One of the worst things about apartment living is the stacked fridge, which means less room in the fridge itself and practically no room at all in the freezer. I try to buy things like chicken when it’s on sale and freeze it, but I can’t store very much in there.

Comment #58: Lisa  on  12/11  at  03:27 PM

Always do your own cooking when you can, and you can even after a grueling 12-hour day, and you don’t need a microwave, a gas range, or a massive set of expensive pots. Easy ways to do it on a busy schedule:

Pre-prepare: Make a big bunch of pasta sauce, soup, stew, on Sunday afternoon, divide into portions, and freeze for deployment on those nights when serious food prep just won’t happen.

Know how to make rice and couscous: Simple, cheap starchy bed for your pre-prepped frozen stuff, or for sauteed meat and veg. Can’t have pasta every night. It’s easy. Rice takes 20 min. in a saucepan with lid; couscous with same equipment about 6 min. (substitute chicken stock for water for great justice).

Frozen vegetables are easily steamed in a few minutes; get one those little steamer platforms for your saucepan.

In SC we’ve learned to love okra, which steams nicely and can beef up some sauteed ground turkey to dump on a bed of rice or pasta. (Okra breaded and fried is a favorite, but like most classic southern food, it’ll kill you. For special occasions.)

Comment #59: wapsie  on  12/11  at  03:29 PM

We both love to cook, but some afternoons there just isn’t enough energy to have food on the table by the time the 4-year-old needs it. So there’s stuff in the freezer, and every now and again there’s rotisserie chicken from the grocery store or takeout (or even—gasp—frozen) pizza.

What comes to mind in the “thinking big” department is the section in the local time bank’s listings for home-cooked meals. Both requests by people who can’t cook any more for time or other reasons and offers by people willing to serve the food up. People who are un- or underemployed could stretch their dollars and make life more enjoyable for themselves and for all the people who are stretched past the limit for time or energy. And cooking for larger groups is almost always cheaper and more efficient. And you could build up a sense of community among folks who otherwise might not think they had time for it.

Comment #60: paul  on  12/11  at  03:41 PM

The other day someone (namely, Tom Tomorrow) commented on how he couldn’t seem to find any sources for the news about the rise in spam sales other than a press release from the company itself.

The New York Times had an article on this that, interestingly enough, Hormel refused to comment on. They got most of their info from union floor workers who found themselves pulling double shifts to keep up with demand.

As for the quality of private label (not the same as “generis”) foods vs. brands, the private-label people figured out long ago that they could make their products just as good as branded ones and still have a price advantage, since they’re not paying for a lot of marketing. Migration to private label has been a long-term trend that the current economic situation is accelerating.

Comment #61: Bitter Scribe  on  12/11  at  03:46 PM

Um, that was supposed to be “not the same as generic, of course.

Also, if you live alone, rotisserie chickens are great. They usually cost only about a buck more than raw ones. You can munch on them for that night’s dinner, then cut up the leftovers and use them for soup, stew, whatever. Enough meat for three dinners. The only drawback is, you have to be willing to eat the minute you get back from the store.

Comment #62: Bitter Scribe  on  12/11  at  03:49 PM

We got in on the community garden. I project a rise in pressure canner sales over the next few years.

Comment #63: Mighty Ponygirl  on  12/11  at  03:53 PM

ibaien: while I am glad that you cannot understand how people could not want to cook, you may want to try at least a little to realize that a) not everyone finds standing in the kitchen for another 1-2 hours after standing on their job all day relaxing; b) that not everyone particularly likes cooking, even if they grew up accustomed to home-cooked food; c) that a 2-year old really precludes standing in the kitchen for 1-2 hours (either he is constantly getting into things he should not be because he wants “to help” or he is hungry and has to whine until the food is ready), or d) because the same person cooking also has to deal with the dishes that spouse apparently cannot see.

Unless it’s in a crock pot, I will not cook any meal that takes longer than an hour (and then, it’s either chicken or meat loaf because they don’t require constant attention).  And while I would love to prepare/freeze the ingredients for meals ahead of time (once-a-month cooking is my dream), I have neither the time nor the freezer space on the weekends, which is when I have to do my academic work.

If you are on the left coast, I highly recommend Fresh & Easy.  I cut my weekly grocery bills in half just by shopping there and primarily buying their store brand (hormone free eggs and milk are 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of name brands and Vons Organics brand).  My caution: avoid their ground turkey (it’s just foul, no pun intended) and their sandwich breads (really dry). True, having to bag myself with a toddler is a PIA but we’ve learned how to get him to help. 

In addition, I no longer buy most household items at the grocery store because they are cheaper at Target.  I’m finding that in tough economic times, you really do have to spread your shopping across several stores to save the most money. Of course, you also have to weigh the savings against the cost of gas, but I’m lucky that I have three Targets, a Trader Joe’s and 2 Fresh & Easys within 10 miles of my house.

Finally: Right on, Amanda, about meal-planning for families with kids versus meal-planning for individuals or just adults (which is still frustrating, but he can fend for himself if he wants to be picky).  Food is one of those things that is both necessary and profoundly social,  which means one can invest a lot emotionally/physically in mealtime and it becomes less worthwhile if those you prepare meals for are unappreciative or difficult about eating.  Between pickiness, personal taste, and allergies meal-planning in my house is a chore and we end up eating basically the same things all the time. At least once a week I find myself unwilling to make dinner, even if I have food in the refrigerator.  Luckily, the spouse has stepped up to split the cooking since the kidlet joined us.

Comment #64: history_mom  on  12/11  at  04:15 PM

I buy a lot of packaged foods that most people don’t think of as “prepared foods.”  I’m talking about stuff like frozen concentrate orange juice.  Vegetables that have been cut up and maybe parboiled (but not cooked in a sauce) and then frozen in plastic bags.  Rolled oats.  Soymilk.  Slivered almonds.  Canned tomatoes.  My great grandparents lived on an isolated farm, and had to process everything themselves from ground (or tree or animal) to table.  I’m really glad I don’t.  With my various joint problems, I’d probably starve. 

Now that I’m out of work, I’ve been paying a lot more attention to generic foods.  A pound of really good frozen cauliflower costs $2 from Trader Joe’s.  Or I can get the Green Giant stuff from Stop & Shop for $1.50.  The Stop & Shop store brand might be on sale for $1.10.  It’s the same cauliflower as the Green Giant stuff, but the bag is flimsier, so I’m taking a chance the bag will break open on the way home.  And I can either transfer it to a sturdy freezer bag when I put it in my home freezer (which is not exactly free), or take the chance that it will break in storage and make the freezer smell of cauliflower.  BJ’s store brand is sometimes as cheap as $1/lb, but only if you buy a lot of it at a time.  And they don’t always have cauliflower at all.  It might not be worth driving out there.  And a lot of the time, BJ’s food packaging smells of mildew.  (Your nose, or your local BJs, may vary.)  I haven’t figured out how to get the mildew smell out of things without damaging the food. 

When I was working a contract job, my time was nominally worth $25/hour before taxes.  When I’m not working, it’s worth less.  But it’s not entirely worthless.  Running around for an hour to save $0.50 just does not seem like a good idea.

Comment #65: Adrian  on  12/11  at  04:17 PM

I live for the day when “Substitute chicken stock for water for great justice!” appears in a fortune cookie.

Comment #66: Viceroy Matt  on  12/11  at  04:17 PM

Home-made “convenience” stuff in the freezer / fridge goes a long way to quicker home meals on the weekdays; still need some time to prepare it, though. As with dishes, which we all hate, I’ve conscripted the entire family (ok, that’s me and two other people) to pitch in. (If you want eat, you help in the kitchen.)

I’ll also plug for ALDI, and Trader Joe’s; as for generics, Kroger is good for some products, but not for other’s - I despise their cheeses - but we have Publix down here, whose generics, especially for dairy, are at least as good as name brands. Not yet mentioned: Big Lots, which tends to have food items that may be closeouts, and therefore less-popular/weird flavors, or off-brands, or may be close to expiry; but it bears looking into - have you tried to buy rice lately? Also their pasta is pretty darn cheap.

Comment #67: madinscriber  on  12/11  at  04:18 PM

Re pickiness: If you don’t like it, let me know, and I likely won’t make it again. But it’s what’s for dinner, so unless you want a pbj, you’re eating it. Mostly, i don’t have that issue, though.

I love my crock pot. And one-dish casseroles. Multi-course meals are reserved for holidays.

Comment #68: madinscriber  on  12/11  at  04:22 PM

In order to keep my Statham-like body in peak physical condition, I eat a very strict diet of homemade pemmican, Civil Defense Saltines and Brandy Alexanders.  This not only gives me the energy to be a full-time floss farmer/cow rancher but also to keep up a regularly scheduled patrolling of my property boundaries with a fully erect M1A1 Battle Rifle™, doing my part for the security of The Fatherland.

Comment #69: Rugged in Montana  on  12/11  at  04:27 PM

I buy cans that say “FOOD”.

Comment #70: uncle noel  on  12/11  at  04:30 PM

I fail to see why eating rabbit bends people so much.  I’m not a meat-eater, but when I did eat meat, I liked rabbit just fine. 

It’s pigs that should bother people.  Pigs are a lot smarter and more sensitive than rabbits.  Eating a pig is much closer to eating a beloved pet than eating a rabbit.  But the pork lobby just has more money, I guess.

Comment #71: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  04:41 PM

Dana, if you dislike peas and lima beans, there just might be a sliver of hope for you yet…

Comment #72: MikeEss  on  12/11  at  04:42 PM

I like to cook, and I’m decent (not great) at it, but I like to cook when I can share.  I live alone, and when I get home at night it seems like such a chore to make a meal just for myself.  I end up with a lot of one-dish meals, or thrown together random bits.  Dinner might end up being something like a yogurt cup, left over pasta with veggies, and a cream cheese bagel or similar random combinations.  I do like to bake, however, since baking is for sharing by its very nature.  Nobody looks at me funny if I bring in a tray of cookies to work, or show up at a gathering of friends with something baked to share.  That may not be the case if I show up with a baked chicken or a plate of sauted squash and onions.

Comment #73: libdevil  on  12/11  at  04:43 PM

Oh gawd, people and their special tastes and “food allergies” and preparing separate special meals for their children over 3. No wonder people hate to cook. They’re screwed before they even touch a pan.

I’m glad my mom gave me one choice growing up: Eat what’s for dinner, or don’t eat. No one was “intolerant” or “allergic” to anything. I seem to have to inherited my mother’s bad stomach for milk, which is apparently common among post-pubescent Southern Italians. Which doesn’t prevent either of us from wolfing down lasagna and cannoli.

Dinnertime was never the emotional minefield it seems to have become for so many families.

(And I though I’ll probably get flamed crispy for it, I’ll say it anyway: I think most “food allergies” are psychosomatic. That’s polite-speak for saying they’re a crock conceived by nervous white people—often in childhood—on account of emotional insecurity and issues of control.)

Comment #74: wapsie  on  12/11  at  04:47 PM

I’m going to ignore the predictable, trite bullshit popping up in places in this thread to stump for ALDI as well - I spent many an hour of my childhood there.  We weren’t exactly poor, but we shopped there, and we ate well.  I’ve tried to get the others to start going there, but they won’t.  It’s just as well, anyhow - we shop at Wal-Mart or Meijer and do well enough.

Comment #75: Blue Field Damian  on  12/11  at  04:49 PM

ibaien, and then you have to do the dishes.  That alone tends to scare me off cooking.  Sometimes, I feel like I can never keep up with all the dishes.

Someday I will have a dishwasher.  Someday!!!

Comment #76: keshmeshi  on  12/11  at  04:50 PM

Peas and lima beans are fine food.  If I was living with someone who didn’t like peas especially, they would have to fend for themselves 3/4 of the time.  Bags of frozen peas are a major staple of my diet.  They go in everything.  I could live for months just making risotto with tomato/chipotle flavoring and peas.

Comment #77: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  04:55 PM

A lot of people are wed to their brand name stuff because marketers have managed to manipulate us that well, and so maybe there’s an untapped market that, strangled by high grocery prices, will move over.


Amanda, I have a friend/co-worker who took a class on marketing, and the data is that the middle-class buys based on brand/prestige/etc., while the upper-class buys based on value.

Also, god didn’t make them.  Human beings developed the vast majority of foods we eat through the trial and error process known as domestication.  Giving credit up to an imaginary being is depriving the people who did the hard work their due credit. 

Which is another level of stupid with the Kirk Cameron video where creationism is justified by showing off how perfect the banana is.  It took thousands of years of cultivation to produce bananas as we know them.  In fact, most domestic foods and animals are a good example of how evolution works.  By applying selective pressure on these species, we pretty rapidly were able to dramatically change their qualities.

Comment #79: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  05:00 PM

Vegetarians actually skate by with smaller bills.  So, my experiences are not indicative, but certainly not in the way that people like yourself who want to deny that we’re in a crisis would like to believe.  I’m hurting less than average.

Amanda Marcotte on 12/11 at 12:20 PM

Possibly, especially if you’re not careful about GMO’s and organic and local sourcing.  And where you live - no green in the midwest in December.

But if you buy organic vegetarian, I’d also like to point out that that $ advantage is thanks to us carnivores.  If it weren’t for the cheap fertilizer byproduct of us meat eaters, then you either wouldn’t have orgsnic, or you’d be paying $10 pound for that broccoli.  So, if you’re eating veggie for ethical reasons, you still are participating in the meat industry.  As our meat farmers or some middle man wises up and begins to sell that black gold, you’ll see veggie prices increase to reflect the real costs.

Comment #80: phylosopher  on  12/11  at  05:02 PM

waspie: I’m with out on the “emotional minefield” dinner is for some families I’ve seen.  I’m not quite with you on the allergies, but I do often wonder why allergies, food or otherwise, seem so much more common now than they did when I was a kid 20 years ago. 

I moved from another state 3 years ago and since being in the new town I have met more people allergice to foods and pets then I did in my prior 25+ years of life.  My house is literally unwelcome for many new friends because of my cats. :(

Comment #81: Olivia  on  12/11  at  05:04 PM

Dana, even though you are doing this DIY and slowly, I highly recommend the IKEA kitchen planner, which you can download from their web site.  You don’t have to buy their cabinets, just pick a line and use the standard-size stuff to rearrange everything.  They also have standard sizes of stoves, fridges, sinks, etc. for the job, too.

It really helps to visualize the space.  My son downloaded the room planner and he redesigned his bedroom.  It made it possible for him to see what items fit where, and what things were not going to work.

Comment #82: Ms Kate  on  12/11  at  05:04 PM

Wapsie, you should see that episode of “Freaks and Geeks” where they decide that the kid with a peanut allergy is just nervous and put his allergy to the test. 

But no matter.  That *your* mother was willing to put the time and effort into nagging, guilt-tripping, and punishing doesn’t mean that everyone has that amount of energy.  The trade-off between nagging and doing extra work is something the vast majority of women have to negotiate every day.  Some have different shake-outs than your mother.  And some of them have picky eaters who are adults who can’t simply be punished.  And while it’s theoretically great for the adult man in the house who doesn’t like lima beans to go out and get himself a hamburger while everyone else eats the lima beans, it’s also a disappointment to the person who did all the cooking.

Comment #83: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  05:05 PM

I’m with the movement to make Michael Pollan Sec. of Agriculture.  A pipe dream is still a dream…

Zach on 12/11 at 12:46 PM

Possibility, but then we’d have to consider Joel Salatin
iIf he wasn’t such a male chauvinist asshole. Compromise on Barbara Kingsolver?

Comment #84: phylosopher  on  12/11  at  05:06 PM

It’s pigs that should bother people.  Pigs are a lot smarter and more sensitive than rabbits.  Eating a pig is much closer to eating a beloved pet than eating a rabbit.  But the pork lobby just has more money, I guess.

No, pigs are just especially delicious.  And they don’t look soft and furry; how many people have ever owned a rabbit anyway?  They look cuddly, and that’s all that matters.

I have to cook for a 2 and a 6 year old, both of whom are picky about different things at different times.  Sometimes it’s hard to gin up enthusiasm for making a meal that will just result in another fight to get the munchkins to eat.

Comment #85: Stephen Suh  on  12/11  at  05:06 PM

I don’t know. Rabbits have always been soft and furry, and yet people used to eat a lot more of them than they do now.  I’m about 99% sure it’s because there aren’t giant factory rabbit farms with big advertising budgets.  Because rabbit tastes just fine.

Comment #86: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  05:10 PM

And I though I’ll probably get flamed crispy for it, I’ll say it anyway: I think most “food allergies” are psychosomatic.

I’ve had this same suspicion for years. I know they are real for some people, but come on.

Comment #87: spence-bob  on  12/11  at  05:18 PM

No, pigs are just especially delicious.  And they don’t look soft and furry;

You’ve never owned a pig, I see.  No, they’re not soft or furry, but they are decent pets if you can handle them.  Smart, too.  And this from a man who’s owned or lived with those who own dogs, cats, fish, lizards, a pig, and rabbits.  I know my shit when it comes to animals - literally, in many cases.

Comment #88: Blue Field Damian  on  12/11  at  05:19 PM

ok, wapsie, i’ll flame you but crispy… smile…

i’ll concede the point that allergies are increasingly common; while there are many possibilities floated for the “why”, from pollution to psychosomatic, i’m definitely in the some-sort-of-physiological-cause camp, owing mostly to the fact that even if i don’t know that an allergen is present, i’ll get a reaction.

granted, many allergies occur only in childhood, and are outgrown by the onset of puberty; i suppose that could be due to childhood anxieties, though why my body saw fit to deprive me of strawberries for a couple of years is beyond me…

while cases of celiac are on the rise, this is most likely to detection rather than incidence. this may account for at least part of the increase in other allergies, as well.

and, as a celiac, i can say with some authority that by cooking flexible meals, and also not being too picky, one can feed everyone without going out of one’s way. for example, i’ll make a pasta and a sauce, and if i’ve not got any GF pasta (which does take one extra pot), i’ll eat it with baked potato, or something. also, we eat a lot of rice-based or potato-based ethnic foods, which everyone enjoys.

Comment #89: madinscriber  on  12/11  at  05:20 PM

And while it’s theoretically great for the adult man in the house who doesn’t like lima beans to go out and get himself a hamburger while everyone else eats the lima beans, it’s also a disappointment to the person who did all the cooking.

Because it’s always the adult male who’s the picky eater, right?

Let me introduce you to my sister-in-law ...

Comment #90: spence-bob  on  12/11  at  05:20 PM

Wapsie, Olivia, Amanda and anyone else.  I’m also in the food industry - local, natural - and one of the things we’ve been finding in our research is that the food itself is different from X eons ago.

Some examples (some with hard science, some still in testing)

Milk - the contention is that pasteruized milk has the good as well as any bad microbes killed, as well as the enzymes destroyed.  Pasteurization laws cover up a host of bad handling practices and were instituted at a time when many farms homes, no tto mention barns didn’t have runnign water - today, heck most garden sheds have runnign water.  If you can find frewsh, raw milk - do try it.  In my personal experience, it cured stomach ulcers.

Meat - growing it - if you’ve read Pollan, you know what grainfed means - higher Omega 6’s, and more fat.  Grassfed is healthier.
Handling - @ 40 years ago most butchers/stores stopped dry-aging and started wet aging - tasteless meat that shrinks to nothing when cooking.  Find a good, real butcher - where the animal walks in the back door. 
And for pork, a farmer who raises it outside - not in a CAFO.

Oh, and for the person with joint problems, look up “rachtopomine hydrochloride” from other than a manufacturer’s site.  Some interesting theories about that stuff.

And a Swedish study just pointed out the difference between e coli levels in CAFO’s and pastured beef. 

Another study is being done on (organic) vegetable uptake of antibiotics from manure treated soils.

I’m always reminded of the Brady Bunch episode - wher Jan is allergic not to the dog , but to the flea powder on the dog.

Comment #91: phylosopher  on  12/11  at  05:27 PM

I’ve noticed “Corn Pockets” and “Rice Pockets” on the cereal shelves for quite a while (and my area is not particularly depressed). Cereal is easily the most expensive processed food item my family buys.

Comment #92: sara  on  12/11  at  05:48 PM

I suppose all of the people who have died from anaphylactic reactions to various foods will be happy to hear that those were psychosomatic. Oh, wait, they’re dead. I think I’ll keep that epi-pen in my bag after all, thanks.

Comment #93: one jewish dyke  on  12/11  at  05:53 PM

I do the cooking every night, but often it’s stir-fry, or grilled, which are rapid. Slow haute French cooking (which I have never attempted, except for a tarte Tatin that was supposed to caramelize on its own and which took forever) was invented in the late 1600’s and 1700’s to ratchet up the level of elite preparation now that the East India Company had brought spices within the reach of common people.

Comment #94: sara  on  12/11  at  05:55 PM

Slow haute French cooking

Hey, Communist, stop using the fancy French words and spell “hot” the American way, ok?

Comment #95: Rugged in Montana  on  12/11  at  06:11 PM

I’ve tried the generic beer.  It tastes like beer soda, not that much worse than the average American beer.  I eat generic cereals all the time though.  I’m especially fond of the generic cocoa krispies, but so far I haven’t found a good generic fruit loop.  One of the local grocery stores has two pound bags of frozen vegetables pretty cheap, peas, brussel sprouts, corn, lima beans etc.  They’re much cheaper than buying the little boxes of Green Giant. 

Grocery prices haven’t come down in Georgia even though the gas did, but I notice that diesel is higher than gasoline, locally it’s about a dollar a gallon higher. 

Food intolerance, like lactose intolerance isn’t the same as an allergy.  There are skin tests for allergies, so if you think your child is faking a food allergy you should have them tested before you force them to eat anything.  Food allergies can kill people.  Making a child eat something that they may be allergic too is an unnecessarily dangerous way to exert authority. 

As for why food allergies may be more common, try http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/health/353327_nohle03.html  It’s pretty much all conjecture, but there’s no reason to believe kids are faking food allergies unless you have them checked out and know for sure.

Some things are okay, generic wise and some aren’t.  I buy almost all store brands, except for peanut butter and milk.  You can eat cheaper by buying in bulk, but a lot of people don’t have the money to do that, or the place to store it if they did.  If you have friends who’re willing though you can buy big containers of staples and split them.

On the other hand, I like cooking too, and have enough time.  People who don’t have enough time to cook are pretty much stuck with convenience foods which are both more expensive and less tasty than cooking from scratch.

Comment #96: G Porgy  on  12/11  at  06:16 PM

Wapsie, I get that we don’t know why allergies are more common now, and that there is a possibility that some are psychosomatic. But it’s cruel and dismissive to tell people who suffer from allergies that, especially kids. Even if it is psychosomatic, the physical symptoms are real, and they won’t go away if you tell people it’s silly. And even if it is psychosomatic for some people, it isn’t for everyone.

I will never, ever forget my (admittedly and asshole) biological father telling my grandmother to ignore me while I wheezed and gasped and sucked down my inhaler because it was all in my head. That was almost thirty years ago, and I’m still pretty sure it’s child abuse.

My father-in-law wears wool around me even though he’s been told dozens of times that if I breathe in a wool fiber my throat will close. A friend’s mom once snuck pineapple juice into my smoothie because she didn’t believe I could really be allergic - boy did she feel bad when I had to be hospitalized.

It’s so easy for people to be judgmental about ailments that they don’t have, and it’s especially easy when it’s someone you perceive as inferior. For you, it’s kids, but for too large a part of the medical establishment, it’s women in general. This is a really, really dangerous attitude.

Comment #97: Av0gadro  on  12/11  at  06:24 PM

Porgy, get with the program. It’s Froot Loops. You’re making the marketing people at Kellogg’s feel bad.

Comment #98: Bitter Scribe  on  12/11  at  06:34 PM

(And I though I’ll probably get flamed crispy for it, I’ll say it anyway: I think most “food allergies” are psychosomatic. That’s polite-speak for saying they’re a crock conceived by nervous white people—often in childhood—on account of emotional insecurity and issues of control.)

Got any evidence of that or is your “gut” now considered fact? 

Because I somehow don’t think that infants are really capable of psychosomatic responses to breastmilk or formula.  It’s funny how many parents discover a sensitivity or allergy to dairy/soy during the early months of breastfeeding, when their child cries in pain at the intense gas build-up or vomits from acid reflux that is caused by allergenic foods.  I also find it extremely unlikely that a PARENT’S concern about food allergies will manifest in a hive-like rash when they introduce their infant to certain foods.  And you know what, my son’s eczema which is flared up by too much fruit consumption is not psychosomatic. Nor is the immediate vomiting he gets from marinara sauce (even though he loves spaghetti).

Maybe you should read some of the studies on allergies and the suspected causes (environmental pollution, genetics, over-sterilization of living environs, etc.) before spouting off and accusing (white) parents of manufacturing problems with which to control their children.

But, you know, let’s not let actual evidence and science determine reality.

Comment #99: history_mom  on  12/11  at  06:42 PM

wapsie, i’ll be less polite. fuck off. when people are dying from allergies, i don’t think your little pet theory counts for much of anything.

Comment #100: chibi  on  12/11  at  06:50 PM

I’ve been eating lots of homemade pizza. Probably the costliest part about it is infrastructure, because I use a Kitchenaid to knead the dough, a pizza stone in the oven, and two pizza peels, purchased in better times.

(And we got a smoking deal on that KitchenAid.)

Staple ingredients include salt, honey, yeast and olive oil, all of which I have in my kitchen. Only the yeast tends to go really dodgy.

Flour has gotten a lot more expensive, but it’s still cheap when compared to either frozen pizza or delivery. However, the cheese is even more expensive—maybe the costliest ingredient. I’m looking into alternative pizzas to avoid the cheese. 

A jar of sauce from Trader Joe’s costs just under $2 and will sauce three mediums. I have enough canned tomatoes that I’m going to try making my own sauce pretty soon.

The nice thing about the mixer is the ability to let it knead while I do other things. Dough can be prepared in advance and put in the refrigerator. I just found out that using less yeast and having a slower fermentation/rise makes for better flavor, but it also saves yeast!

Comment #101: El Mocho  on  12/11  at  06:57 PM

I seem to have to inherited my mother’s bad stomach for milk, which is apparently common among post-pubescent Southern Italians. Which doesn’t prevent either of us from wolfing down lasagna and cannoli.

It’s not a “bad stomach.”  It’s lactose intolerance.  You must not have it very bad if you still eat cheese all of the time—I usually end up spending on hour or so on the toilet.  At one point, G. demanded that I choose between him and diary.

Weird how you yourself have a genetic food intolerance but insist that everyone else must be faking it.

Comment #102: Mnemosyne  on  12/11  at  06:58 PM

El Mocho, you can freeze yeast. I keep it up to two years in the freezer without any problem, and have kept one especially cheap bulk bag four years. It’s important (unsurprisingly) to keep moisture out, but just bring it back to room temp before activating it and it should work fine.

Comment #103: Av0gadro  on  12/11  at  07:02 PM

By applying selective pressure on these species, we pretty rapidly were able to dramatically change their qualities.

I like the way GB Shaw put it in Back To Methuselah:

But pigeon fanciers, dog fanciers, gardeners, stock breeders, or stud grooms, can understand Circumstantial Selection, because it is their business to produce transformation by imposing on flowers and animals a Selection From Without. All that Darwin had to say to them was that the mere chapter of accidents is always doing
on a huge scale what they themselves are doing on a very small scale. There is hardly a laborer attached to an English country house who has not taken a litter of kittens or puppies to the bucket, and drowned all of them except the one he thinks the most promising. Such a man has nothing to learn about the survival of the fittest except that it acts in more ways than he has yet noticed; for he knows quite well, as you will find if you are not too proud to talk to him, that this sort of selection occurs naturally (in Darwin’s sense) too: that, for instance, a hard winter will kill off a weakly child as the bucket kills off a weakly puppy. Then there is the farm laborer. Shakespear’s Touchstone, a court-bred fool, was shocked to find in the shepherd a natural philosopher, and opined that he would be damned for the part he took in the sexual selection of sheep. As to the production of new species by the selection of variations, that is no news to your gardener. Now if you are familiar with these three processes: the survival of the fittest, sexual selection, and variation leading to new kinds, there is nothing to puzzle you in Darwinism.

I second Aldi (who by the way, owns Trader Joe’s, and not in the YER PWNED!!!11! way) as well. Fairly reasonable quality (except their sausage links - ecch), and comparably inexpensive. The only problem though is their insistence on using only one checkout line with 10 people in line.

Comment #105: Dr. Squid  on  12/11  at  07:19 PM

I’m one half of a couple of busy students, and buying a friend’s Crock-pot off of them for cheap was the best thing that’s even happened to us cooking-wise. Throw everything in the pot before class in the morning, and by late afternoon everything is cooked and ready to eat. i think new ones come in at around fifty dollars, but it is so worth it.

Comment #106: kater  on  12/11  at  07:23 PM

It’s not a “bad stomach.” It’s lactose intolerance.  You must not have it very bad if you still eat cheese all of the time—I usually end up spending on hour or so on the toilet.  At one point, G. demanded that I choose between him and diary.

Lactase tablets.  Take when eating the cheese, ice cream, or other dairy product.  Problems all gone!

Comment #107: Dirty Davey  on  12/11  at  07:57 PM

Weird how you yourself have a genetic food intolerance but insist that everyone else must be faking it.

also not understanding the difference between “faking” and “psychosomatic.”

I have a friend who claims to be allergic to uncooked vegetables. categorically. doesn’t matter what. which means he subsists on meat and potatoes since he doesn’t much care for them after cooking either. Which when doing food prep is infuriating, but otherwise isn’t a problem. I am convinced it’s psychosomatic, because I cannot imagine any substance present in ALL uncooked vegetables which he could be allergic to. but that doesn’t change that he has a reaction.

I’ve had some success with a weekly “real food night” wherein a handful of single comrades gather at ones house. one does food prep and hosts, but doesn’t pay a dime for the meal. everyone else chips in. it can get a bit expensive, considering how much has to be purchased almost entirely and we don’t use much on hand already. my last hosting was 3 dishes (roast greenbeans and onion, cucumber salad, red potatoes), a brisket roast and orange chocolate muffin dessert. which came to about 30 dollars. not much in the way of leftovers, but for 5 people, that’s 6 dollars a head. you can’t get that much or that good at a restaurant for that. and it forced people to try new things (one had never had cucumber.)

I present it as a collective improvement project. We eat well one night a week, so if we subsist on freezer fare other days, it’s less horrific. We take turns, so we all get practice cooking new things, and by extension, have to try new things. This is very much a YMMV deal, though.

Comment #108: karpad  on  12/11  at  08:04 PM

I’m especially fond of the generic cocoa krispies, but so far I haven’t found a good generic fruit loop.

Are you including Malt-O-Meal as “generic?”  Only ‘cause their cereals are all 100% awesome.

At one point, G. demanded that I choose between him and diary.

That’s not fair at all.  I hope G. has seen the error of his ways.

Comment #109: Stephen Suh  on  12/11  at  08:08 PM

I have a couple dishes I make in bulk and freeze portions for later.

My favorites are a beef and winter vegetable stew, and an Italian Sausage Stew—so good, when I’m not eating one in the winter, I’m eating the other.

I can’t do grains or beans (too many carbs), but he vegetables are mutable in each of these recipes. I buy what’s available or what’s cheap, but all versions of the below have been delicious.

SWEET ITALIAN SAUSAGE STEW

1 (or 2) pounds of Italian Sweet Sausage (I prefer chicken to pork, but in either the seasoning includes fennel which will flavor the whole stew)

(For more protein, you can add any other meat currently on sale, providing it isn’t pre-seasoned. Hamburger, chicken, whatever.)

1-2 large packages of frozen green beans, or cans. (Or fresh, in season.)

You can also add other green vegetables which are on hand, or are on sale—green squash or celery, chopped, peas (high in carbs, so you maight want to limit)—except asparagus, which is too strongly flavored, and I’m not sure about broccoli, but you can try it.)

1-2 large cans of chopped tomatoes

(ADD, if they’re reasonably priced: 1 or more red, yellow, orange or green peppers.)

1 or more cloves of garlic, sliced or chopped (as much as you like!)

1 - 2 onions, chopped

two pinches black pepper

Oil

Brown the sausages (and any other meat) in oil, then remove meat and sautee onion and garlic until soft.

Add green vegetables, tomatoes and the meat, with two pinches black pepper, and water to just under the top line of ingredients (vegetables will also add liquid.)

Bring to boil, briefly, and simmer for 45 minutes to an hour. 

BEEF AND WINTER VEGETABLE STEW

1-2 pounds cubed stew beef (I buy beef cuts when cheap, freeze, cut into cubes when needed.)
1-2 each turnips, parnsips and/or rutabagas, cut into cubes
celery, sliced or diced
1-2 onions
1-2 clove garlic
1-2 pinches of pepper
oil

Brown stew beef in oil, remove and sautee garlic and onions until soft. Add beef, vegetables, pepper, and water to just under the line of ingredients.

Bring to a boil, briefly, and then simmer for 45 minutes to one hour.

Comment #110: judy brown  on  12/11  at  08:38 PM

As for food allergies being bunk—I wish!

Milk products, grains, sugar, coffee, sodas, soy, alchohol—anything fermented—in quantity and I get sick.

After a couple years of dragging myself to doctor after doctor, I now know if I consume only meat, fish, chicken, vegetables and fruit, and drink water—I’m healthy. Only string and green beans, and I hafta go easy on the nuts.

Fall off the wagon too much and I get sick as a dog in various ways. I’m not going to bore you with the symptoms, but they’re all too real and physical.

Comment #111: judy brown  on  12/11  at  08:47 PM

That’s not fair at all.  I hope G. has seen the error of his ways.

Fortunately, it turned out that the combination of staying hydrated and eating yogurt with live and active cultures helped immensely.  Plus the fact that I switched to low-fat dairy-based junk food.  Dairy, G. and I all live together happily now.  grin

Davey, lactase tablets never did a damn thing for me, unfortunately.  And Lactaid milk is the WORST crap on the face of the earth.  It makes me sicker than regular milk.  Organic Valley Lactose-Free 1%—that’s the good stuff.

Comment #112: Mnemosyne  on  12/11  at  08:49 PM

By the buy, when I can’t afford organic at Whole Foods, I buy my fruits and veggies at the 99 cent store, which in California gets everything from the same local downtown wholesale market—or at least, carries the same brands as Whole Foods and the other supermarkets, including some organics.

Comment #113: judy brown  on  12/11  at  08:52 PM

I am convinced it’s psychosomatic, because I cannot imagine any substance present in ALL uncooked vegetables which he could be allergic to. but that doesn’t change that he has a reaction.

For some reason, raw regular carrot sticks give me a stomachache, but I don’t have the same problem with raw baby carrots.  And if I remember right, they just whittle the baby carrots down from the big guys, so what’s up with that?

It is actually pretty common for people to have trouble with raw veggies, though.  We’re natural omnivores, not herbivores, so we can’t tolerate huge amounts of uncooked plant matter.

(Touchy vegans, note the qualifier “uncooked” and remember that raw food advocates are just barely this side of breathatarians.)

Comment #114: Mnemosyne  on  12/11  at  08:54 PM

Ooooh, parsnips!

Comment #115: lonespark  on  12/11  at  09:04 PM

My physical anthropology class (lo those many years ago!) talked about the fact that *most* adult humans cannot tolerate large quantities of straight milk.  The enzyme that breaks down the unaltered lactose essentially stops being produced around age 10.  That’s why we tend to think of milk as a kid’s drink - adults have it in cereal or coffee, but not by the glassful.

This is different from actual lactose intolerance, where people have trouble digesting any dairy in quantity.  Most adults can eat cultured milk products (cheese, yogurt, etc.) without a second thought.  It’s the straight milk that causes problems.  My professor hated those “got milk” ads aimed at adults.  smile

The discussion was in the context of nomadic herding tribes in Africa, where the vast majority of their diet comes directly from the cattle.  They mix the milk with other, very-unappetizing-to-our-Western-sensiblilty things to make it digestible in quantity.

Comment #116: Lee  on  12/11  at  10:11 PM

Phylosopher:

There’s been a fair amount of work done showing that the regulations for food handling are pretty much designed so that the big factory operations where nobody cares and some employees may be actively committing sabotage will still be safe. (In my neck of the wood artisan cheesemakers complain about this in particular—if you’re not clean, the cheese simply won’t come out, but the regs prescribe pasteurization for young cheeses anyway, plus a lot of other annoyances.)

The problem is that once you let the tiny well-run operations do things differently, you end up letting the tiny badly-run operations do it to, and then the big badly-run operations are close behind. Perhaps if we had a food inspection regime that was not entirely captured by the big producers, but I’m not holding my breath.

Comment #117: paul  on  12/11  at  10:24 PM

“Psychosomatic” is not the same as “a crock.”

You piece of shit.

Comment #118: Auguste  on  12/11  at  10:33 PM

I am convinced it’s psychosomatic, because I cannot imagine any substance present in ALL uncooked vegetables which he could be allergic to.

It actually may be, of course, that part of that piece of shit’s point has some basis in truth, I think. I’ve known someone who has in the past had exactly the same complaint (allergic to all uncooked vegetables) but fortunately liked the cooked kind. Fortunately, except it led hir to take too many chances and occasionally eat undercooked ones, which caused a reaction.

Which is fucking weird, right? If you think you’re eating cooked vegetables which don’t cause an allergic reaction, why would undercooking one cause a problem? Maybe Dr. Wapsie can enlighten us.

Comment #119: Auguste  on  12/11  at  10:37 PM

Ok, a couple things:

I went to Aldi’s just now, after hearing you’all hype it - all I can think is that different stores must stock different items.  Tried to buy juice - all they had was fruit cocktail type stuff.  And the cereal was all sugar shit- no whole grain anything that wasn’t frosted.  Ended up with two boxes of pasta - regular, again, no whole grain options and a pack of chiclet type gum - which was absolutely tasteless - not only me, but the boys who love any kind of gum, said.  But they did find the quarter in the cart fascinating - as well as the entire side of the kristmas kitsch aisle.

@mnemo:  could it be something like the nitrites-trates in the soil - and eating only the inner layer gets rid of those? 

@ Lee - most of those cultures get their milk from goats and sheep - different size fat molecules, too, not to mention that as a rule, no one feeds them corn, which our dairy cattle receive in abundance.  It could actually be a corn allergy/sensitivity.

I’ve developed a sulfite sensitivity - added sulfites in wine make me feel liek I’ve had a bottle after 1/2 glass - organic wine, no added sulfites, no problem - and yeah I’ve done the blind taste test with a friend who has the same problem.

Comment #120: phylosopher  on  12/11  at  10:42 PM

Mnem, not really, according to Snopes.com. baby carrots were bred to be sweeter better looking.

There’s one food allergy I know of that actually develops in people due to overexposure. It’s the latex allergy.  If you’re allergic to latex, you are allergic to bananas and I think avocados.  I suspect that food allergies are on the rise because your average person is exposed to a lot more chemicals like latex that can cause food allergies in the long haul.

I would point out different people have different levels of pain tolerance, too.  What registers as mild indigestion to one person can be searing cramping pain to another.

I was allergic to Nutrasweet as a kid.  I’m fine with it now.  Severe asthmatics are restricted from dairy products, red meat and citrus.  These aren’t allergens per se, but they can make the symptoms of the disease worse.  Certainly when I was in the hospital having a psychosomatic asthma attack that the doctor said could have killed me due to the fact that my 9-year-old brain was all superhero powerful, they didn’t let me have any damn milk or orange juice.

Comment #122: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/11  at  10:50 PM

And I though I’ll probably get flamed crispy for it, I’ll say it anyway: I think most “food allergies” are psychosomatic.

I always felt the same way about “cell phones”. I mean, no one I knew had them when I was growing up. Now everyone claims to have them.

Comment #123: Oneiros Dreaming  on  12/11  at  10:52 PM

Amanda wrote:

I fail to see why eating rabbit bends people so much.  I’m not a meat-eater, but when I did eat meat, I liked rabbit just fine. 

It’s pigs that should bother people.  Pigs are a lot smarter and more sensitive than rabbits.  Eating a pig is much closer to eating a beloved pet than eating a rabbit.  But the pork lobby just has more money, I guess.

It’s because we’re used to eating pork, I’d say.

Back when the girls were in elementary school—and before—Elaine brought home some duck from the store.  Well, there were ducks around the neighborhood, so the meal wasn’t duck, but “quack chicken.”  Well, that meant that other foods became moo chicken and oink chicken and swim chicken.

Then a friend gave me some deer steaks.  I was going to use Babmi chicken, but Elaine said no, so it became forest chicken.

Comment #124: Dana  on  12/11  at  10:58 PM

Amanda wrote:

Peas and lima beans are fine food.  If I was living with someone who didn’t like peas especially, they would have to fend for themselves 3/4 of the time.  Bags of frozen peas are a major staple of my diet.  They go in everything.  I could live for months just making risotto with tomato/chipotle flavoring and peas.

Well, that explains why Amanda and I are not an item!  smile

I can tolerate snow peas, raw or sear fried in a thin layer of oil, but the processed canned peas are absolutely revolting.

Comment #125: Dana  on  12/11  at  11:02 PM

Food intolerance, like lactose intolerance isn’t the same as an allergy.  There are skin tests for allergies, so if you think your child is faking a food allergy you should have them tested before you force them to eat anything.  Food allergies can kill people.  Making a child eat something that they may be allergic too is an unnecessarily dangerous way to exert authority.

How are you defining allergy?  An allergy is simply hypersensitivity, reaction to which can cause mild symptoms (stomach upset or runny nose for example), to moderate symptoms (vomiting, hives), to severe (anaphylaxis, death). The main difference between a food intolerance and a food allergy, is that one is purely digestive (rather than immune) in origin and children tend to outgrow it. I am assuming that this was the distinction you were going for?

In any case, in terms of symptoms experienced they are virtually identical to the sufferer and still require special diets for as long as those symptoms persist.  Testing to make sure it’s an allergy simply tells parents whether or not it’s worthwhile to try and re-introduce a particular food.

Comment #126: history_mom  on  12/11  at  11:03 PM

Ms Kate: Thanks for the IKEA kitchen planner idea; I hadn’t heard of it before.

Comment #127: Dana  on  12/11  at  11:05 PM

There’s one food allergy I know of that actually develops in people due to overexposure. It’s the latex allergy.  If you’re allergic to latex, you are allergic to bananas and I think avocados.  I suspect that food allergies are on the rise because your average person is exposed to a lot more chemicals like latex that can cause food allergies in the long haul.

Latex allergy is also related potato/tomato allergy.  Some studies from the 1990s on latex allergies, which occur from prolonged and frequent exposure, found a high correlation to potato allergy, as they are cross allergens (which is why those with food allergies tend to have issues with multiple foods). Potatoes are so ubiquitous in our diet that doctors used to think it was one of the least allergenic foods out there; turns out, this is not the case. Many people are allergic to potato juice and it results in watery, itchy eyes, mild skin rash from contact with raw potatoes, stomach bloating, headaches, and fatigue.  I always told people that potatoes did weird things to me and until I finally researched it I had no idea it was an allergy.  It was very disappointing, seeing as I ate them about four times per week and love them. I still get DOCTORS skeptical, even though by cutting them mostly out of my diet I rarely have those symptoms anymore.

But I guess it’s just psychosomatic—I WANTED to be allergic to potatoes because I apparently have a thing for denying myself foods I love.

Comment #128: history_mom  on  12/11  at  11:16 PM

While this is mostly a post about putting up the Christmas tree, I included a picture of the younger Miss Pico’s bunny; now you’ll know why it could never become dinner!

Comment #129: Dana  on  12/11  at  11:43 PM

Our 4-foot plastic Christmas tree is permanently bent because our 8-pound kitten (now a 14-pound cat, and still growing) decided that he needed to run full-tilt into it as often as possible.  Apparently the game was for us to put the tree back up again so he could get a really good running start at it.

I think we’re going to sandbag it this year and see if that helps.  And no glass ornaments this time.

Comment #130: Mnemosyne  on  12/12  at  12:13 AM

...processed canned peas are absolutely revolting.

I’d say the same for almost all canned vegetables. I make an exception for mushrooms (which aren’t even vegetables, strictly speaking), because the fresh ones have a shelf life of about 15 minutes. Otherwise, strictly frozen or fresh.

Comment #131: Bitter Scribe  on  12/12  at  12:49 AM

My two cents on food allergies: A study recently published in a German medical journal found that only about half of adults who claimed them actually had them. (The criterion was the presence or absence of an antibody generated by the allergies.)

Comment #132: Bitter Scribe  on  12/12  at  12:53 AM

@dana—my cat is already a permanent resident in the xmas tree. It’s only been up about an hour…Any thoughts on extraction?

Comment #133: Well, what?  on  12/12  at  01:32 AM

...processed canned peas are absolutely revolting.

Except for LeSeur Early June Peas, bless their shriveled, Army green little hearts. Loves them!

Comment #134: hamletta  on  12/12  at  01:50 AM

my cat is already a permanent resident in the xmas tree. It’s only been up about an hour…Any thoughts on extraction?

Most felines are afraid of the sound of gunfire, so I suggest you fire a short barreled .357 Magnum in it’s direction from about 6 feet away.  This may leave it shaken for a short while (4-6 weeks) but as cats are wild animals, it will soon recover, though with some loss of hearing.

Comment #135: Rugged in Montana  on  12/12  at  02:32 AM

Except for LeSeur Early June Peas, bless their shriveled, Army green little hearts. Loves them!

We know a remote farm in Lincolnshire, where Mrs. Buckley lives. Every July, peas grow there.

Comment #136: karpad  on  12/12  at  02:56 AM

Well, what? asked:

my cat is already a permanent resident in the xmas tree. It’s only been up about an hour…Any thoughts on extraction?

If he’s a permanent resident, it shouldn’t be a problem.  The real problem arises when he is a chronic visitor and leaver!

It’s now morning, and, at least when I left for work, the tree was still standing, though there were two or three ornaments on the floor.

Comment #137: Dana  on  12/12  at  08:26 AM

We know a remote farm in Lincolnshire, where Mrs. Buckley lives. Every July, peas grow there.

Hmmmph, you and your “friend” always going on about how this. “Every July, peas grow there”—is that even proper English?

I’ve had enough. It’s not worth it, it’s just not worth it. I’m through with this thread.

Comment #138: Gracchus  on  12/12  at  11:26 AM

The problem is that once you let the tiny well-run operations do things differently, you end up letting the tiny badly-run operations do it to, and then the big badly-run operations are close behind. Perhaps if we had a food inspection regime that was not entirely captured by the big producers, but I’m not holding my breath.

paul on 12/11 at 08:24 PM

Don’t hold your breath Paul, you can’t eat that way;-) We get around it with co-ops find or start one in your neighborhood.  It’s one of the things that’s actually easier in the Midwest becasue most of us are within co-op striking distance of an Amish farm.

And there are organizaitons working on it - seek to buy from (support) and help these folks out.
Check out SARE.org and www.localharvest.org.

Comment #139: phylosopher  on  12/12  at  11:52 AM

Mnem, not really, according to Snopes.com. baby carrots were bred to be sweeter better looking.

The Dark Avenger and Guardian of 10 Gold Chow Mein on 12/11 at 08:47 PM

Whoa, there Avenger,  you’ve printed only part of the story, the full snopes story confirms the scraping and the chlorination.  Yes, baby cuts are usually made from full sizers even if those full sizers are sweeter, oranger varieties.

Comment #140: phylosopher  on  12/12  at  11:57 AM

I like to cook and I’m very organized at it, doing half of the dishes while cooking is still in progress and keeping the kitchen in good shape. However, I often come home at 11pm or later, with blood sugar too low to handle a kitchen knife safely, so it’s ramen noodles, sandwiches, or a salad. I have experimented some with frozen dinners, but found only one brand where I wouldn’t, taste-wise, prefer ramen noodles, and that one is rather expensive… For lunch I could go to the company cafeteria, which is very good but, unless you take the deep-fried, quite expensive at 7 Euro a meal.

Well, what: At times I’ve actually contemplated becoming a pro chef, because it’s the only way I can cook without being responsible for the dishes.

When I lived with roommates, the rule was, “those who cook don’t have to do the dishes”. While that does not encourage careful use of resources, it worked OK.

Picky eaters: We usually had a large pot of rice/noodles/potatos. Everyone who did not care about whatever else was on the table stuck to that pot. (A brother’s friend alway had pasta with plum jam. No accounting for taste.)


annejumps: Then, when you go broke, prepare to be tsked at by the same people who encouraged you to spend

I can’t quite change the suspicion that there is method to this kínd of madness. Spend spend spend, and when shit happens you are on your own, should have saved? That is just using and discarding people. And making them desperate enough to volunteer as some evil overlord’s minions or redshirts.


madinscriber: Home-made “convenience” stuff in the freezer / fridge goes a long way to quicker home meals on the weekdays; still need some time to prepare it, though.

Also needs a big freezer. Which needs a kitchen large enough to put it in. And should not be too ancient or the utility bills will let you know…


Waspie: And I though I’ll probably get flamed crispy for it, I’ll say it anyway: I think most “food allergies” are psychosomatic.

The common thing about food allergies and intolerances is that people do not know they have them until they are tested for it. You don’t eat something, are sick and say “Well, I guess I’m allergic to that”. You might eat something, drop to the floor in seizures, and have the hospital tell you “We guess you are allergic to it”. Or you feel rotten half of the time and on some totally unrelated visit the doctor tests for gluten intolerance, and no more bread or pasta for you. I’d say that theory fails a blind test.
(Not saying that people might not claim allergies as to avoid being impolite or too direct. “Coconut makes me barf” or “I’m a recovering alcoholic” might not be the thing to tell at a dinner party. “I’m allergic” is safer.)

I still don’t know whether I have a true intolerance to artificial sweetners, of if I just hate the taste and the aftertaste. I just avoid that stuff.

Amanda: That *your* mother was willing to put the time and effort into nagging, guilt-tripping, and punishing doesn’t mean that everyone has that amount of energy.

Heh. Back in the day everyone had that amount of energy. I doubt there’s a person over 40 who does not have horror stories to tell about things they were forced to eat as a kid.

Comment #141: inge  on  12/12  at  12:51 PM

Also needs a big freezer. Which needs a kitchen large enough to put it in. And should not be too ancient or the utility bills will let you know…

Not necessarily; I prepare Stuff once or twice a month, like stock cubes, diced herbs, chicken portions, pre-made doughs. Granted, there’s not much else in my freezer, and it’s pretty packed. I’ll second whoever said that buying in bulk doesn’t work for everyone, because we do have limited space; but both sets of parents have access to Sam’s/Costco type clubs, and we split purchases with them.

And frozen juices rock. Especially as healthy ingredients in various recipes (try making cranberry sauce with apple juice concentrate instead of water; very little extra sugar needed!).

Heh. Back in the day everyone had that amount of energy. I doubt there’s a person over 40 who does not have horror stories to tell about things they were forced to eat as a kid.

I was an extraordinarily picky eater as a child; I was also obstinate and contrary. My response to the “there are kids starving in Africa” line was always “so send it to them”. It was a battle my parents actually lost, until I decided of my own accord that food was a good idea.

Comment #142: madinscriber  on  12/12  at  01:15 PM

Beans and rice.  I cook a big pot of beans and rice every weekend and put them in the fridge. Beans and rice go into soups, stews, salads, and enchiladas.  If you don’t season them when you cook them, you can add seasoning at the serving point: garlic, onion, tabasco, whatever.  And when you reheat them, you can put in any veggie you prefer.  Saves a lot of time and trouble, having beans and rice ready to go in the fridge.  I use brown rice, too, and rice ‘n beans make a complete protein.  A small piece of leftover cooked meat can go in it as well. Shred some beef or chicken, and it’ll stretch one piece fo as may people as you have rice and beans for!

Also: interesting that this isn’t addressed as a feminist issue. How many women will actually cook a meal and set a table for themselves?  But women will do it if there is a partner or children involved.  Yes, some men cook. My husband, for one. But food preparation tends to take place if other people are involved.  When I realized I was falling into the trap of not preparing food for myself when I’m alone,that’s when I started with the beans and rice thing.

Comment #143: Ivyfree  on  12/12  at  02:08 PM

madinscriber: I was an extraordinarily picky eater as a child; I was also obstinate and contrary.

Good for you. I always had a dislike of people yelling at me or mocking me in front of a crowd. (I still didn’t eat that spoiled meat, though.)

Comment #144: inge  on  12/12  at  02:16 PM

Allergies can crop up out of nowhere.

Case in point:  In the Central Valley, it isn’t unusual to find pomegranate trees growing unattended, but bearing fruit where there has been no rain in months.

When I was a lad, Professor Avenger, seeing such a tree, and knowing that I liked them, decided to pick a few fruits for me.

He got scratched while doing so, and as a result had a near-anaphylactic reaction.

His and my conclusion is that everybody is allergic to something, it’s just that some folks are lucky and aren’t allergic to something that is common to their environment.

“For some reason, raw regular carrot sticks give me a stomachache, but I don’t have the same problem with raw baby carrots.  And if I remember right, they just whittle the baby carrots down from the big guys, so what’s up with that? “

Scientifically speaking, the tips of the carrots are what are sold as “baby” carrots.  Since carrots grow from the tip down into the soil, the tips have the newest growth and thus the least amount of cellulose, as opposed to the base of the carrot.  Thus, there is less cellulose (or “fiber”, as your gramma might have put it) to irritate your bowel.

The worst abdominal pain I ever had came from having a granola bar and an apple for lunch.  Sounds pretty harmless, doesn’t it?  Gave me gas like you wouldn’t believe - when it finally moved thru, it sounded like a bomb in the *public restroom* I was in!  Thank God I was alone in there, because the maniacal laughter that followed would surely have gotten me committed. smile  (Hey, cessation of pain following a fart that sounds like a sonic boom equals laughing helplessly at the sheer idiocy of it all.)

Comment #146: Mhorag  on  12/12  at  02:49 PM

@dana—my cat is already a permanent resident in the xmas tree. It’s only been up about an hour…Any thoughts on extraction?

Have you tried the magical power of canned cat food?  G. opened a can of soup the other night and it took an hour to convince the kitties that it was not, in fact, dinnertime for them.

Just remember that the best behavior you can hope for from a cat is that they won’t do the thing you don’t want them to do while you’re actually in the room.  Once you leave, that tree is fair game.

Comment #147: Mnemosyne  on  12/12  at  06:25 PM

Scientifically speaking, the tips of the carrots are what are sold as “baby” carrots.  Since carrots grow from the tip down into the soil, the tips have the newest growth and thus the least amount of cellulose, as opposed to the base of the carrot.  Thus, there is less cellulose (or “fiber”, as your gramma might have put it) to irritate your bowel.

That would make sense since I definitely have cranky bowels.  I was once on a really high-fiber diet and G. had to ask me to stop.  My gas woke him up in the middle of the night.  Not the sound—the smell made him think the house was burning down.

I’ve built up my fiber tolerance pretty well, but there’s just something about that carrot cellulose that messes with me every time.

Comment #148: Mnemosyne  on  12/12  at  06:27 PM

Another suggestion, for those of you who can afford the one-time investment:  a stand-alone freezer. I got a half-size one for <$200 bucks a few years ago (it may have been closer to $100; don’t remember), because it was just me & the ex (before he was an ex), and I still love it—great for wads of stock, or frozen veggies on sale (I prefer frozen because then I avoid science projects in the veggie drawer), or portioned-out stews, etc.

Comment #149: Narya  on  12/12  at  06:59 PM

Bitter Scribe:
the problem with that study (and other, similar, studies) is that it is only looking for that particular
reaction: antibodies. but there are lots of other negative reactions that everyone - including doctors who should know better - CALL allergies. lactose intolerance is one, many sufferers used to say they were allergic to milk. or, a better one, i have Acute Intermediate Porphyria, and cannot eat many things because of it (fish, tomatoes, marjam and thyme, etc, etc). yet it always is relayed (by doctors and nurses TO doctors and nurses) that i am ALLERGIC to those items (along with others that i am ACTUALLY allergic to).
“allergic” anymore really means “cannot tolerate”
thats part of why Waspie, above, was so irritating… conflating a couple of different causes for similar
effects, and then stating that only a few of those causes were “real”. yes, its a short handed lazy
descriptor, but so is “the flu” or “a cold”.

Comment #150: denelian  on  12/12  at  08:32 PM
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