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Next entry: I Am Confident In The Future Of The Economy Previous entry: Repubs give up all pretense of being sticklers for process the second they get power

First came the trains, then the death march on to the….buses

I swear to god, half my blogging (if not more) from here on out is going to have to be dedicated, once again, to examples of how Republicans claim they’re motivated by strong principles, but in fact they’re just straight up culture warriors who never take a pass at a pot shot. Here’s the latest example:

  In some post-election hardball between the Obama administration and newly-elected Republicans, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is threatening to take back stimulus funds from states if they do not follow through on proposed rail projects.

  CNN obtained copies of letters LaHood sent to incoming Republican governors in Ohio and Wisconsin who have stated their opposition to rail projects already underway in their states. In the letters, LaHood said a rail link between Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati in Ohio, and a high-speed rail connection between Chicago, Illinois, and Milwaukee, Wisconsin, are vital to economic growth in both regions.

  Lahood wrote that he respects the power of governors to make decisions for their states, but, “There seems to be some confusion about how these high-speed rail dollars can be spent.”

  To Wisconsin’s Gov.-elect Scott Walker, LaHood said that none of the funds can be used for roads or any other projects. He went on to say, “Consequently, unless you change your position, we plan to engage in an orderly transition to wind down Wisconsin’s project so that we do not waste taxpayer’s money.” That letter was delivered on Monday.

To make this very clear, the Republicans—-who generally like to carry on about how they’re just against the stimulus, full stop—-are happy to take the stimulus funds.  They want the funds they claim are evil.  They just don’t want to spend them on trains. 

David Dayen has a theory:

These Republican governors are engaged in a little game. They want to decry “wasteful spending” without reducing that spending one bit. They just want to move the high speed rail money into fixing roads and bridges. I imagine this is because that will be completed faster and with a higher profile than the longer-term HSR projects.

Maybe that’s part of it.  But I wouldn’t discount the straight up Republican hostility towards trains, especially compared to cars.  When Republicans are pandering to their base, one of their most important pitches is to imply that evil liberals are trying to make you share breathing space with undesirables.  As I noted earlier, one of the biggest selling points on creating hostility to health care reform was to provoke anxieties in the base of having to share public spaces with (fill the group that any particular wingnut hates).  The RNC’s anti-health care website had a picture on it of a multi-racial line in an E.R.  They weren’t overly subtle about this.  This is political pandering to people who go into a red-eyed rage at having to dial “1” for English.

The symbol of modern conservatism is the SUV that pulls in and out of the garage of the front yard-free McMansion placed inside a gated community, a perfect little system that allows the conservative base voter to leave their home and run errands with an absolute minimum of contact with the outside world.  Trains are basically the opposite of that—-everyone buys a ticket (which may involve pressing “1” for English), and you sit down basically wherever, and anyone can sit in your car or even your aisle.  If SUVs are the symbols of everything wrong with conservative America to liberals, then trains are definitely a symbol of everything wrong with liberal America to conservatives—-the egalitarian nature of them, the prioritizing of fuel efficiency over living like a little pretend king in a little pretend castle, the lack of airs that are associated with train travel.  Once the trains come in, it becomes easier not to own a car, and next thing you know, people are walking more, which means even more shoulder-rubbing with the hoi polloi.  It’s all very disconcerting.  No wonder Republican politicians want nothing to do with it.

Like a good little liberal, I actually really love traveling by train, and access to nearby cities with a short trip on Amtrak is one of my favorite things about living out East.  I did like driving on long distance trips when I had a car—-at least, a 3 or 4 hour one, not the 6 or 7 or 10 hour ones I often had to make—-but trains are more comfortable, plus you can plug in your laptop and watch videos if you want.  Or, gasp, read a book.  And they’re safer.  I’m sure all of this is just making the culture war aspects of it worse, but I thought I’d just say. 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 05:50 PM • (77) Comments

They just want to move the high speed rail money into fixing roads and bridges.

no. they just want to cut taxes on high earners, and use the rail money to help cover the shortfall.

Comment #1: cj  on  11/10  at  06:28 PM

They want the funds they claim are evil.  They just don’t want to spend them on trains.

Well, according to our Libertarian troll PeterZeroOne all HSR is good for is:

to get the government to create a convenient way to get from one hipster city centre to another.  After all, only one classic film-noir movie festival a month can get a bit boring.

In addition to the other horrors you mention (environmentalism! egalitarian spirit!), you can’t blame the GOP for riding the wave of bitter anti-intellectualism that powers the Know-Nothing base.

[sorry, but this post reminded me of one of the most spectacularly bone-headed comments I’ve seen on this site lately]

Comment #2: Gracchus.  on  11/10  at  06:54 PM

I think Amanda’s culture-war analysis is spot-on, particularly because there is just no other way to explain the vehement Republican opposition to high-speed rail:

Rail lines do things that GOP politicians normally like.  Rail lines create local jobs in both the short term and long term, and they enhance local economies (and are good for local businesses, esp. regional businesses - say, for example, a company operating in Milwaukee and Chicago). 

Perhaps also the ethanol/corn and oil and gas lobbies also have something to do with it.

Comment #3: Luke  on  11/10  at  06:58 PM

I hate scott walker. I hate Ron Johnson.  I hate the fact that the backward ass idiots that make up most of the state of wisconsin poop their collective pants when anything innovative is brought up.

Comment #4: kitten parade  on  11/10  at  07:06 PM

I love Amtrak too.  I take the express to DC from Penn quite often for business, and nothing can beat it.  I have tried taking the Southwest shuttle out of Islip a few times, and it’s okay, but I don’t like having to get from Baltimore to DC, it’s a pain.  And for leisure I love taking day trips to Philadelphia especially when they have something interesting at the museum.  Amtrak is great.  People are eff’d in the head in this country.  I would love high-speed rail.  We are sooo behind Europe, it’s completely depressing.

Comment #5: JennyLI  on  11/10  at  07:07 PM

Please don’t forget that more rail access could drive prices down, thus creating more demand for rail travel. At the moment, I do not take high speed rail on the east coast because it costs just as much as flying. The only cheap way up and down the east coast is by bus which is totally egalitarian but not the most environmentally friendly way to go. I wish LaHood could divert the funds he would have spent in those states and use them to make it happen that much faster in places where governors have some sense.

Comment #6: serious bette  on  11/10  at  07:08 PM

Also, a friend and I were discussing the difference between living in California and the Northeast USA the other day.  His criticism of California was that the car culture there prevents a lot of the spontaneous interaction and unexpected connections among people you get in Northeastern cities in the USA (not to mention, London, Paris, Amsterdam, etc., all with excellent public transport), precisely because everyone is in their bubble and closes himself or herself off from the rest of the world. 

I cannot live in that bubble.  It’s lonely and isolating.  And it’s worth remembering that this is the vision of society conservative Republicans wish to impose on everyone everywhere in the USA, while demonizing so-called elites in the Northeast and Europe who embrace something different.  There is no compromising with such people.

Comment #7: Luke  on  11/10  at  07:08 PM

The symbol of modern conservatism is the SUV that pulls in and out of the garage of the front yard-free McMansion placed inside a gated community[.]

Right on.  Republicans really don’t believe in “a rising tide lifts all boats”.  They prefer to expend huge amounts of additional energy and resources to make sure that their boat is the only one being lifted.

Comment #8: ryang  on  11/10  at  07:12 PM

Scott walker evicerated the bus system in Milwaukee County.  If you look at the election results, Milwaukee County voted overwhelmingly for Tom Barrett, who is for the rail system.  Most people in Milwaukee county know that Scott walker is an idiot and cannot keep his promise of creating jobs for wisconsin while simultanuously scrapping a project that will be a boost to the economy and move the state away from an unsustainable way of life.

Comment #9: kitten parade  on  11/10  at  07:15 PM

Take the Acela quiet car down to DC sometime - it’s the best train experience I’ve ever had!  (I was going the opposite direction, but I’m sure the reverse holds.)

Comment #10: Mimi  on  11/10  at  07:18 PM

Repugs want to reward their bribers, that is the people who contributed to their election funds, who are often highway construction company Owners & such.  I suspect train tracks construction & planning folk have their lobbiests’ in D.C., and soon-to-be-indicted Governors weren’t on the bribery-list.  Their money went to Senators.

Comment #11: Kwillow  on  11/10  at  07:28 PM

I’ve seen those Mimi, but haven’t tried them yet - I will though.

Comment #12: JennyLI  on  11/10  at  07:43 PM

Heh. The modest efforts being made by some Dems to improve walkability and mass transit are being perceived as an evil UN plot for New World Order.

Here’s a sampling:

Posted by: wodiej
Aug 11, 06:29 AM
This is a way to get upstanding, hardworking, decent, responsible people to live in skanky neighborhoods to lift up the area because the people who live there now are lazy, irresponsible, immoral and just want a hand out. It won’t work-even upscale, snotty liberals will not live in communities like that and the gov’t cannot force anyone to live in certain places.

Posted by: Frazer
Aug 11, 06:34 AM
It’s definitely a control issue. All the socialist vote is in the cities and is susceptible to manipulation. The UN is behind all of this. They have taken bored mayors for an extra special ride and made them feel like international dignitairies. The UN has been organizing international meetings for mayors to push their green agenda, hoping to get a toehold in national governments around the world. Start with the little governments - municipalities and regional government, then when they have all those good little foot soldiers in the cities, start working on the state, and ultimately federal government. It is interesting to note, as the green market is “pre-planned”, all the government employees and politicians are rushing out to form green industries in order to be the vendor of record for government. It is truly sick and very disturbing.

Posted by: Kwan
Aug 11, 06:36 AM
The longer this community disorganizer is in office the more I’m starting to feel like an extra in the Doctor Zhivago movie. Now I’m just waiting for some flunkie from the Ministry of Living Space Allotment to show up at my door with a flea-bitten pack of street bums and tell me I have to move into one of my bedrooms and move some motley crew of winos and crack-heads into the other rooms.

Comment #13: AJB  on  11/10  at  07:46 PM

In fact if you value your sanity, don’t search Google Blog Search for “livable communities act.”

Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

Comment #14: AJB  on  11/10  at  07:47 PM

Conservative paranoia about trains is something that I’ve never really understood. Strike that, I know that they want to keep out those they consider undesirable from their neighborhood as Amanda said. But that doesn’t explain half of it, simple nimbyism could keep the stations away from their community if they so want. What I find confusing is the total conservative opposition to all forms of transit. They worship the car like its Jesus.

Comment #15: Lee  on  11/10  at  07:50 PM

I don’t understand how people could not want high speed rail, especially between Milwaukee and Chicago. Driving in Chicago is an experience that will make you want to nuke the city to the bedrock.

Comment #16: Entomologista  on  11/10  at  07:55 PM

Not that anyone here needs convincing of Amanda’s argument re: sharing space with the little peoples, but #13 makes it airtight.

Comment #17: bomberE  on  11/10  at  08:48 PM

I used to love driving—but Chicago driving sucks big time.  There’s no way to avoid traffic and construction, which makes more traffic!

My husband occasionally takes the train to Milwaukee in order to catch a plane to O’Hare (a 20 min drive from our house)).  Airfare from Milwaukee can be hundreds less, even though he ends up on the same flight he would have been on if he’d stayed home for 4 hours and gone straight to O’Hare.

Highspeed rail would rock.

Comment #18: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  11/10  at  08:50 PM

Seriously, WHERE in the bloody hell does all of this UN paranoia come from?  The UN doesn’t have the power to do much.  The UN is basically the equivalent of the central bureaucracy- they can determine international copyright law, aviation code, and some shipping code, but have no enforcement capabilities..  NONE.

Comment #19: Antigone  on  11/10  at  08:51 PM

Trains Rule! Amtrack station one mile from my house takes me right to the ball park in San Diego for a great day of baseball and then dinner at one of their many fantastic restaraunts. Then it gets me home safe and sound at the end of the night, even if I’ve been drinking.

Comment #20: Mark  on  11/10  at  08:53 PM

I wish someone’d fork out for either more car trains or someone putting regional trains together with ZipCars or similar self-serve car rental schemes.

‘Cause the worst thing about trains (and airplanes to a lesser extent) is how to get that last 90 miles to whereever I’m actually going.

Comment #21: Crissa  on  11/10  at  08:55 PM

I remember someone telling me, a lifelong Bay Area resident, that the trouble with BART is that it allows criminals to commute from Oakland to upscale communities in Contra Costa in order steal from the rich white people there. 

Having never personally witnessed anyone transporting stolen goods on the BART train, I was somewhat skeptical.

Comment #22: Captain Bathrobe  on  11/10  at  08:56 PM

Alas, a train to my mother’s house costs two to four times more, and takes twelve to twenty four hours instead of four for air travel.  (counting security)  It takes me ten hours to drive the same, assuming clear roads, and twenty four gallons of gas.

Comment #23: Crissa  on  11/10  at  09:00 PM

I live in Dayton, Ohio. Our state was going to receive $400 million dollars for light rail from Dayton to Columbus to Cleveland, which would cover a SW to NE swath across the state, creating jobs, contributing to the preservation of the environment, and opening up corridors all across the area. One local suburb was positioned to be a hub, receiving a sizable amount of money that would have made a huge difference in their economy.

So what happened? The nimrods elected Kasich as governor. They got rid of Strickland, who was promoting the plan, and they voted in a corporate Wall Street shill who said in his campaign that he would shut it down. He ran on that. And they elected him. He said his first action as Governor would be to cancel all of the studies and contracts.

yay, Ohio. From Blue to Red in two years. Good bye to $400 million. sigh.

Comment #24: DonnaH  on  11/10  at  09:13 PM

Amtrak is a much more pleasant way to travel than conservatives or even some liberals (who have Euroenvy) give it credit for.

Comment #25: Ben D.  on  11/10  at  09:15 PM

I live in Dayton, Ohio. Our state was going to receive $400 million dollars for light rail from Dayton to Columbus to Cleveland, which would cover a SW to NE swath across the state, creating jobs, contributing to the preservation of the environment, and opening up corridors all across the area. One local suburb was positioned to be a hub, receiving a sizable amount of money that would have made a huge difference in their economy.

I completely support the rail project, but I live in Toledo, and quite frankly, I was a little upset that the proposed rail project wasn’t going to be going through my general area.  You’d think we’d be a natural location.  Detroit and Windsor are right there, so you could hook up to the VIA rail system in Canada and get to Toronto, Montreal, etc. pretty easily.  You could also switch over to Amtrak here and go to Chicago and various other western locations.  And so on.  But then, I think every major city should be connected to a high speed rail line—it would certainly make it easier to get to where you need to go.\

And I definitely agree about Kasich.  Man is a complete tool.

Comment #26: ks  on  11/10  at  09:56 PM

Teabagger logic… Tea Party conservatism has to be one of the most self-destructive political philosophies I’ve ever heard of. The question is, how do you prove it to them within their thought framework?

Comment #27: BrianX  on  11/10  at  10:02 PM

There is a second level of this bullshit - in MA we have local aid that the state pays out to cities and towns, who then whine bitch and moan that there are strings attached and they can’t just spend it on a new bridge they neglected to maintain instead of the school budget.

Too fucking bad.

These guys are worse than spoiled children who don’t understand that if Mom and Dad give you money for clothes and you buy toys, you lose your allowance and don’t get new clothes.

Comment #28: Ms Kate  on  11/10  at  10:21 PM

The teabaggers are a direct result of the Ultimate Soviet Plan: spending on military meant underspending on social welfare and education for so long, we have a very large and very stupid and stunted underclass.

The communists won - the teabaggery is proof!

Comment #29: Ms Kate  on  11/10  at  10:22 PM

Ms Kate:

The phrase that goes through my head is “shovel-ready”. The new guy in Wisconsin has obviously never dealt with a Federal grant before—the Feds are remarkably anal about how their money is spent, and pulling a switcheroo from an approved project to something that may as well be general fund is a spectacularly good way to piss off the people who write the checks.

Comment #30: BrianX  on  11/10  at  10:42 PM

KS @ #26 - Hail, fellow Glass Citizen!  I’m over by what’s left of Northtowne Mall.  Where are you?

Toledo is actually part of the Chicago Hub Network, and would have been in the corridor connecting Cleveland to Chicago.  If the dumbfuck hicks - who sit around and bellyache all day that they’re not rich yet, and why the hell should they care about anyone else - hadn’t elected that mess we’ve got heading into the Governor’s office.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/rpd/passenger/648.shtml

I go to Chicago on the regular via Amtrak, and while I do love it, I’d love it even more if I got there in 2 hours instead of 4.

Comment #31: MaggieB  on  11/10  at  10:43 PM

These guys are just fscking stupid. And couldn’t care less about their constituents. Because that money doesn’t go to the same state to use for something else. In fact, as New Jersey is finding out, any money spent already gets clawed back, plus interest. So protecting taxpayers from cost overruns is about to cost the taxpayers of the Garden State a cool $300 mil.

Comment #32: paul  on  11/10  at  11:10 PM

As a New Jersey resident, I’m really annoyed that our Republican governor decided to kill the extra railway tunnel under the Hudson for New Jersey Transit. That tunnel would have relieved some of the commuter rail traffic from the existing Amtrak tunnel, and maybe made traffic on both lines somewhat faster. Instead, the state will be forfeiting its federal funds (the second time that’s happened under Christie) and the jobs the tunnel would have created. It’s really a shame since rail is the best way for traveling into New York City from this state.

Captain Bathrobe (#22): I’ve heard the same claim given as an excuse for opposing expansion of rail service into additional suburban areas. Sometimes I’ve heard it from (otherwise liberal) people that I wouldn’t expect to oppose rail service.

Comment #33: John B.  on  11/10  at  11:12 PM

Hail Maggie B.  I’m in west Toledo near campus.

Comment #34: ks  on  11/10  at  11:23 PM

Amanda, I have such complicated feelings about painting Republicans as being to a one McMansion-living SUV-drivers. I know that it’s borne out in statistics - rich people in red states are much more likely to vote Republican than poor people. But I have seen people in these very comments blithely collapse that idea into the idea that people living in rural and/or conservative areas are McMansion-living tax evaders, while in fact the red states contain some of the most brutal poverty in the US. The intellectual laziness of other people is not, of course, your problem, and I appreciate that we’re contesting the Republicans’ attempts to paint themselves as proletarian.

That said: the South used to have a thriving rail system, at least as far south as North Carolina. We still have most of the infrastructure, and while cars certainly are popular, we were a bus culture until the 1970s; bus routes were major determiners of development. I have certain unlovely suspicions about why intertown buses stopped being something middle-class white people used round about 1972. It’s very frustrating today - to get roughly three hour’s drive from my college to my family’s house, I used to spend eight hours total on buses, and the last half of the route was essentially hitchhiking on a medical shuttle that kept a couple of seats open for students.

Comment #35: purpleshoes  on  11/10  at  11:44 PM

while in fact the red states contain some of the most brutal poverty in the US.

One of my favorite statistics is that more white men voted for Barack Obama in West Virginia than in some states he won outright like Virginia, North Carolina, and Ohio.

Comment #36: Ben D.  on  11/11  at  12:18 AM

@KS - I lived on that campus for 3 years.  It’s changed a lot since then!

Comment #37: MaggieB  on  11/11  at  12:20 AM

Or more accurately, a greater proportion of white men in West Virginia voted for Obama than the proportion of white men that voted for him the aforementioned states.

Comment #38: Ben D.  on  11/11  at  12:27 AM

@#35

Its important to note that people living in red states != Republican voters. Even a super red state would be like 30-40% dem voters and poor people are less likely to vote than rich ones. Furthermore, a lot of the crippling red-state poverty comes from areas with oppressed minority populations, like black people in the South or Native Americans in the West—these groups are also overwhelmingly democratic.

It also drives me nuts how people assume that all red-staters are Republicans.

Comment #39: alysia  on  11/11  at  12:37 AM

Furthermore, a lot of the crippling red-state poverty comes from areas with oppressed minority populations

And Appalachia.

Comment #40: Ben D.  on  11/11  at  12:49 AM

Thanks for writing about this.  I live in Madison and this insane train politics thing is just killing us here.  We need this kind of new infrastructure here to develop new economic options and not be dependent on the traditional ups and downs of our stagnating industrial base.  Instead, our new idiot-kid-brother Guv-elect wants to sink these funds into same-old same-old road repairs, and indeed it looks like he’d prefer to turn the funds back to allowing the project to go ahead.  This is an excruciating moment for our state.  I feel like this issue as much as any other demonstrated the narrowness of the view that drove Tea-Party-inspired turnout here last Tuesday.  I am convinced that a narrow slice of our electorate moved to radically transform our state’s politics last week, and that evdn tonight this devastating infrastructure clusterfuck and the loss of Sen. Feingold are driving mainstream Wisconsin voters to reconsider what happened last Tuesday and begin to commit to reverse it in two short years.

Comment #41: MDrew  on  11/11  at  01:28 AM

If anyone’s been reading Balloon Juice over the past few days, you’ll have caught the “principled conservative/libertarian arguments” that a town instituting curbside recycling is tyranny.  It really is all about pissing off liberals.

Comment #42: themann1086  on  11/11  at  01:57 AM

Repugs want to reward their bribers, that is the people who contributed to their election funds, who are often highway construction company Owners & such.
Comment #11: Kwillow

Oil companies. The less we drive and the more fuel-efficient our transportation becomes, the less money they make. I don’t know why they don’t just develop a biofuel substitute for gasoline already. Or build charging stations for electric and hybrid cars and charge by the watt or something. It’s not like they don’t have the funds or technology, and it would save them a fortune in lobbying money.

I remember a lot of people being turned off of Amtrack by a series of accidents around the late-80s and 90s. It hurt their brand image pretty severely. I suppose the accidents happened because we didn’t put enough resources into maintaining the infrastructure?

Comment #43: snobographer  on  11/11  at  02:06 AM

MDrew:

How exactly does one reach the “rednecks surfing on snowmobiles” vote, anyway?

I know someone who’s a Wisconsin teabagger and I kind of wonder what her take on this might be—as far as I can tell, her conservatism comes from pure cynicism. The thing that gets me is how I can’t tell if the people who are against this sort of thing are aware of the disconnect, and where they expect the jobs to come from if they kill the project. Yeah, them potholes aren’t gonna patch themselves, but that’s life in the North for you—it should already be figured into any state budget that’s likely to deal with snow. Now bridge work, that’s something important, but shouldn’t someone be asking the anti-train crowd why they didn’t apply for that in the first place if they thought it would create jobs?

Like I said, it’s the politics of personal self-destruction. Their platform is incoherent, but they believe so strongly in it that there’s no arguing. This isn’t even their usual free-ride bullshit—this is just eating a bullet (train).

Comment #44: BrianX  on  11/11  at  02:08 AM

Atlanta, where I used to live, had a serious consensus against anything that would run on a track.  My liberal neighborhood association in a nice intown neighborhood told me its #1 agenda was resisting light rail.  So sad.  One of the most smoggy and polluted cities in the U.S., with enough population density to support urban trains, and the locals are trapped in their cars thinking they’re free ... yet unable to move.

Comment #45: Unree  on  11/11  at  02:14 AM

35: purpleshoes - I’m in San Francisco. I went to see An Inconvenient Truth in the theater when it came out. When I left, I saw this older kind of well-off looking granola type couple that I recognized from having seen in the theater. They were pulling a mid-sized SUV out of the parking garage. Like a Land rover or something. And it was just the two of them. Liberals don’t always connect their principles to their actions either.
I’ve seen bonafide hippies littering in the park too.

Comment #46: snobographer  on  11/11  at  02:21 AM

@snobographer

From Wikipedia’s article on Amtrak:

During the Reagan administration, appropriations were halved. By 1986, federal support fell to a decade low of $601 million, almost none of which were capital appropriations.

It seems like either lack of funding or lack of government oversight (or both) led to the accidents.  I can see Reagan being to blame for both, frankly.

Comment #47: Atheist, A Feminist  on  11/11  at  02:29 AM

I wonder how averse to rail travel people are going to be after they experience the ‘enhanced pat down’ that’s going into effect in airports. In Iraq, you only have to do this because people wear loose dishdashahs and abbayahs and there’s a genuine risk of suicide bombers.  Given all the bullshit with air travel, the choice between having nude photographs taken of one or being groped by some thug in a polyester uniform may finally make people take the train.

Comment #48: ginmar  on  11/11  at  02:35 AM

Well, according to our Libertarian troll PeterZeroOne all HSR is good for is:

  to get the government to create a convenient way to get from one hipster city centre to another.  After all, only one classic film-noir movie festival a month can get a bit boring.

I suppose we should thank D!ckOughtOne for reminding us that the culture war is often really a war *on* culture, waged by wingnuts who are intellectually bankrupt by choice and embrace resentment of anyone with an inner life that involves more than Ayn Rand novels or idly tweaking a stock portfolio.  I mean, why would anyone do something that doesn’t involve making money, counting
money, or reading about how great it is to have money and lord it over others?

Seriously, WHERE in the bloody hell does all of this UN paranoia come from?  The UN doesn’t have the power to do much.  The UN is basically the equivalent of the central bureaucracy- they can determine international copyright law, aviation code, and some shipping code, but have no enforcement capabilities..  NONE.

Antigone, there’s a lot to unpack here, but (long story short) it’s basically a melange of John Bircher paranoia mixed with Krazy Kristian(tm) fantasies about UN takeovers and end-times dictatorships.  Check out Slacktivist’s blogged dissection of the Left Behind series for a thorough explanation.

Comment #49: Sour Kraut  on  11/11  at  02:58 AM

snobographer:

I like to think of them as the “Bottled Water and a Prius” crowd.

Comment #50: BrianX  on  11/11  at  03:23 AM

@47: Atheist, A Feminist - Ah! That Reagan asshole. That’s pretty much what I suspected.

@50: BrianX - Cases and cases of Pellegrino still. When we’re lucky enough to live in a city that still has decent tap water.

Comment #51: snobographer  on  11/11  at  03:59 AM

Cases and cases of Pellegrino still. When we’re lucky enough to live in a city that still has decent tap water.

Depends on your neighborhood. I’m not drinking my old ass Tenderloin apartment tap water for anything. And no, filtering it doesn’t help. It still tastes awful.

Also, I would point out Pellegrino is mineral water, not plain water. If my taps put out Pellegrino, that would be sort of awesome.

Comment #52: Alison  on  11/11  at  04:20 AM

@Alison

If your taps ever do start, please let us know as I will start looking into moving.

Comment #53: Atheist, A Feminist  on  11/11  at  04:39 AM

@52 - That sucks. My crappy SOMA building has okay water when they don’t shut it off every six weeks or so to repair something. But the wasps who shop at the Whole Foods down the block do buy a lot of Pellegrino.

Comment #54: snobographer  on  11/11  at  05:37 AM

@52 - You should try the tap water in rural Nebraska. Now THAT stuff is nasty.

Comment #55: snobographer  on  11/11  at  05:39 AM

BrianX-

I may be dreaming, but it’s my belief that for every snowmobile-riding redneck up North who turned out to vote for Walker & Johnson last Tuesday in a horrible economy, there is another who didn’t, but who will be inclined to turn out to in a couple years amidst an improving economy to register discontent with turning down $810M and being without the voice that Russ provided them with in the halls of Washington.  But I’ll freely admit I’m inclined to put a not-necessarily-earned trust in the basic sensibility of my fellow citizens when not faced with extreme economic duress, and I wouldn’t suggest you’d be wrong to maintain skepticism.

Comment #56: MDrew  on  11/11  at  07:31 AM

snobographer at 45: This might fall under the problems of determining what it means to be liberal. Green politics and policies is part of liberalism but I wouldn’t necessarily put people who give them low to no priority into the conservative camp. Most people aren’t so doctrinaire as to attempt to encompass the entire program of whatever ideology into their lives with anything approaching consistency. Look at all the sex scandals conservatives get themselves into as evidence.

Comment #57: Lee  on  11/11  at  09:38 AM

When I lived in Osaka, got spoiled with amazing commuter rail transit. When I moved back to Vancouver, moved right next to a light rail transit station. The real estate agent talked about the 650ft. rule. Apparently that’s the accepted wisdom on “how far a crackhead will walk.” Never saw any. Though it was Vancouver, so plenty of people smoking pot. That had nothing to do with transit though, just a fact of life living in that city.

Now I live in Okinawa, and need to own a car. In Japan, land of the amazing transit network… except for Okinawa. There is only one element of living in this prefecture I don’t like, and it’s the complete lack of transit options. There are expensive and unreliable buses, and one monorail line that doesn’t go anywhere near my home, which is walking distance from my wife’s school.

Having experienced good, bad, and mediocre transit systems, I can’t understand anybody having any objection to increasing transit effectiveness. These people are mad.

Comment #58: Matthew, Patron Saint of Affogato  on  11/11  at  11:09 AM

Maggie B, I didn’t know you could go from Toledo directly to Chicago, rather than through Detroit first. That’s a little odd of Amtrak, but good. Michigan doesn’t have the worst service, but you can’t go between Detroit, Lansing (third largest city) and Grand Rapids (the second largest city). Good for getting to and from Chicago, especially if you live along the line that runs from Detroit to Ann Arbor to Jackson to Kalamazoo, not so much for getting around the state. And the fact that you have to go to Chicago to go any point east as well as west sucks.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am/Layout&p=1237405732511&cid=1237437856440

Personally, I love the train. My wife and I took it from Kalamazoo to Dallas (it goes Chicago, Springfield, St. Louis, Little Rock, Dallas) last year for the hell of it. Much longer, but much more pleasant than driving or flying. Also more expensive, but it made it seem more like a real vacation than a quick trip to be in some friends’ wedding in the ass-end of suburban Dallas-Fort Worth. We left Kalamazoo on one day and got to Dallas early afternoon the next.

Just judging books by their covers, maybe Republicans are right to hate trains, I don’t think they’d have come close to winning an election on the train we took (at least if everyone voted). There was a pretty big contingent of young people, including both stereotypical college students and poor-looking young people with a big, racially-mixed bunch of kids. It was also blacker than the country as a whole. There were several old farm couples who we picked up in the tiny towns in central Illinois, too. But actual rural farmers are much less conservative (economically, at least) than people who like to pretend to be them for electoral purposes, at least in my experience. One of the old farmers was regaling everyone he met about the time they went to Europe and rode the bullet train from Paris.

“I wonder how averse to rail travel people are going to be after they experience the ‘enhanced pat down’ that’s going into effect in airports. In Iraq, you only have to do this because people wear loose dishdashahs and abbayahs and there’s a genuine risk of suicide bombers.  Given all the bullshit with air travel, the choice between having nude photographs taken of one or being groped by some thug in a polyester uniform may finally make people take the train.”

Well, someone’s probably going to bomb an American train at some point and then we’ll have to have insane security theater at the train station too. Which would probably kill Amtrak dead, once and for all. (Boehner doesn’t read Pandagon, does he? I may have said to much)

Comment #59: witless chum  on  11/11  at  12:07 PM

I wonder how averse to rail travel people are going to be after they experience the ‘enhanced pat down’ that’s going into effect in airports.

The more intrusive pat down will ensure that I will never, ever fly again - not that I did a lot of flying to begin with, as I hate flying.  I saw a demonstration on the news, and good gravy, it made me so uncomfortable to watch it, even though they were using a dummy to demonstrate.  Just the thought of someone putting their hands near my breasts makes me shudder - I’ve been groped enough that that would honestly cause me to freak the fuck out.  So if it’s not possible to drive there, I’m taking the train.  It would be nice if we did have a high speed rail system to make travel better.

Comment #60: SporkeyO  on  11/11  at  12:15 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_streetcar_scandal

This is tangentially related to the current HSR discussion, but very relevant to how we now travel in the United States, so I thought I would throw a link up for anybody who is interested.  In the 40’s, a number of automobile manufacturers conspired to crush rail-based transit.  They were fantastically successful.  It’s the kind of thing that I would initially suspect of being a paranoid conspiracy theory, but it’s pretty well-documented. 

I don’t know if this is common knowledge, but I had never heard of it before a few months ago.  It really shocked me, although it shouldn’t have.

Comment #61: mamram  on  11/11  at  12:55 PM

I think conservatives are against trains and other public transportation because they can longer say openly that they want to make minorities sit in the back of the car.  The way they responded to civil rights was to just avoid any situation at all where they would have to encounter minorities.  I’m pretty sure they’re still riled up about desegregation but they can’t openly admit that (yet).

Comment #62: bananacat  on  11/11  at  12:59 PM

I live in Ohio, and I think the concern is that no one will use this rail system. Which is accurate—when I was in college at Ohio University, everyone just HAD to have their own car. My parents refused to let me take one until I was a senior, and trying to find rides home to Cleveland for breaks was nearly impossible—even if the person I asked to ride with practically lived down the street. Everyone else without a car had the same experience. People want to get in their cars and go where they want to go on their own schedule, and to hell with everyone else. Carpooling is too much work for them, and they’ll be damned if they can’t jump in a car and zip off whenever they feel like it.

Of course, it made the traffic jams a living nightmare when everyone went home for winter break. The road leading into and out of OU is two-lane, and we’d sometimes sit there for hours because of all the cars.

That said, I would absolutely love it if they did put this rail system in. I live in Cleveland now, but I have to travel 2 1/2 hours to Columbus every week. I absolutely hate the drive and dread doing it. (It’s probably the most boring, un-scenic drive in the US, as everyone in Ohio knows.) If I could jump on a train and read for 2 1/2 hours, I would be a very happy woman—and save a lot of money on gas.

Comment #63: Ashley Herzog  on  11/11  at  01:32 PM

I’d say the hostility to public transport is more an expression of self-centeredness, rather than hostility to sharing with “undesirables.” At least that’s how it definitely felt to me when I was in college without a car and no one was willing to carpool. (During those traffic jams, I’d look into the cars. I’d say 90% had no passengers.)

Comment #64: Ashley Herzog  on  11/11  at  01:36 PM

Odd, when I was in college drivers were usually happy to take—and often sought—passengers to split the gas bill with.

Comment #65: mamram  on  11/11  at  01:41 PM

Maybe it’s just the particular school I went to, but everyone without a car had trouble finding rides.

The same at my high school. I went to high school in Texas in a very affluent district. I carpooled with two neighbors, but very few people did. No, they got their very own parking space. Instead of telling kids to carpool or take the bus, they went and built a huge new parking lot when space ran out. The traffic was horrendous—school let out at 2:25 and I usually got to my house (which was 3 miles away) at 3:15. If they were smart, they wouldn’t have built an extra HUGE parking lot. They’d give out parking passes to carpoolers, and tell the others “sorry, you’ll have to organize a carpool or take the bus.” It’s self-centeredness, plain and simple.

Comment #66: Ashley Herzog  on  11/11  at  01:47 PM

“Maybe it’s just the particular school I went to, but everyone without a car had trouble finding rides.”

Not my experience going to Michigan State, but that’s probably a lot because it’s two times the size. Even though I grew up nine hours away in the Upper Peninsula, I never had trouble finding rides home with people I went to high school with who either went to MSU or another school in lower Michigan.

Plus, there was a pretty well-used board at the Union seeking and offering rides.

Comment #67: witless chum  on  11/11  at  04:00 PM

It also drives me nuts how people assume that all red-staters are Republicans.

And it shows that you’re dumb and or strangely bothered.  Of course not all who live there are, but a notable majority seem to be, or don’t care.  It’s not like back when you could organize enough people to change a district or two… Because that’s already been done.

Comment #68: Crissa  on  11/11  at  05:50 PM

Crissa—WTF? I can’t tell if you are calling red-staters dumb and strangely bothered or me dumb and strangely bothered, but if its the latter, my point was that most poor people even in red states are democrats or non-voters, so to assume that because republicans seem to be old rich suv drivers doesn’t mean that everyone in mississippi is an old rich SUV driver—just the rich people there are more likely to be greedy and poor people are less likely to vote. And the difference between a red state and blue state is only a thin sliver of voters. In ‘08 4 in 10 people from crimson red Utah voted Obama, while 6 in 10 voters chose Obama in uber-liberal Massachussettes. The problem isnt that we have states were 100% of the people are crazy assholes, its just a 20% sliver of the electorate that seperates the most liberal from the most conservative states and that 20% causes the vulnerable populations who are not Republicans a lot of pain.

Comment #69: alysia  on  11/11  at  07:39 PM

We haven’t just fallen behind Europe.  We’ve fallen behind China.  I was there a few weeks ago, and the country is now crisscrossed with true, grade-separated HSR.  The trains (well, the high-speed G trains anyway) go 360 kph!

Comment #70: Trystero  on  11/11  at  09:31 PM

Read a book on the train? Are you mad?  I laugh at the cars on I-5, and then take a nap.

Since Trystero is using that commie metric system (really, dude, you’re not converting any R’s using ‘kph’) I’ll perform a public service and tell all that that is 223.69362912 MILES per hour, according to the handy online metric converter.

Internet Spelling Initiative:  it’s ‘sep-A-rate’, you idiots.

Comment #71: Eric_RoM  on  11/11  at  10:19 PM

One thing is that intercity rail lines don’t work unless their is a good local public transportation system or the areas around the stations are very walkable.

Comment #72: Lee  on  11/11  at  11:13 PM

As an aside: I had to go to Chicago once to help out a friend’s dad at a convention. (Loved the city, btw; but for the weather, I could easily want to live there.) I wonder how many people, in my situation, would have done like I did and taken public transportation from the airport to the convention center without even thinking of taking a taxi…

Comment #73: BrianX  on  11/12  at  04:22 AM

Lee:

Well, there’s your other problem. When it comes to local transit, people are far more blatant about their dislike of “riff-raff”. I don’t like places with poor public transportation (I live on Cape Cod and all the driving around has made me even more of a lardass than I used to be), but there’s no shortage of people who probably consider that a selling point.

Comment #74: BrianX  on  11/12  at  04:52 AM

@Brianx

When it comes to local transit, people are far more blatant about their dislike of “riff-raff”.

Well, they do have a point there.  I mean, I absolutely loathe sharing public anything with everyman dudes who spread their legs into your seat, and have no problem making comments about the quantity and quality of your sex life if you don’t respond to them, and tell you that they are sure The Brothers Karamazov that you are reading is an excellent book, but have you ever tried John Grisham?, and ... oh, wait, I think that they might have a different picture of undesirables than I do.

Comment #75: Atheist, A Feminist  on  11/12  at  07:50 AM

I remember my trip to Vegas for a friend’s wedding. When we tried to get on the bus after a murder mystery dinner, one of the actors told us he couldn’t let us do that, and gave us a ride. Every time we tried to take the bus, people stopped us and warned us that buses were “for weirdos.”

Little did they know I just would have been another weirdo on the bus. Having taken the bus most of my life, I found this very strange.

Comment #76: Matthew, Patron Saint of Affogato  on  11/12  at  09:41 AM

@57: Lee - I didn’t put them in the conservative camp. And the couple obviously had some regard for environmentalism if they drove to a theater and paid for a movie ticket plus parking (which is especially expensive in San Francisco) to see An Inconvenient Truth. I certainly wouldn’t put the pot-smoking drum-circle hippies in the park in the conservative camp either. My point was, as I stated, people’s actions don’t always match up to their values.

Comment #77: snobographer  on  11/13  at  03:55 AM
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