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Next entry: Palin inspires musical mockery Previous entry: Even when they’re winning, they’re losing

Gah, part two

Here’s the first part of the post.  I thought I had saved it without publishing, but I guess not, and there’s already a bunch of comments, so I’ll just finish it here. 

So, I was saying I doubt that many wingnuts realize how far out of their grasp total victory is, even though many of them seem to subconsciously get it, which is why fantasies about the end of the world where Jesus comes and makes everyone dead because they weren’t obedient are so popular.  Outside of that, there’s a tendency to act as if it won’t be that hard to start getting the edge in the culture war.  Now that abortion has been legal for more than two generations, I get the impression it’s a lot easier for anti-choicers, for instance, to convince themselves that re-banning abortion will return some idealized patriarchy that was already on its way out centuries before Roe v. Wade


But believe you and me, wingnuts feel their losing status in the culture wars even if they’re winning electorally.  Why do you think they invented virginity pledges and purity balls?  It’s because the kids in their churches have rejected their values, and they’re trying to repackage them to make them more attractive.  They’re so far behind where they want to be that they’re embracing Sarah Palin, a woman who outranks her husband and whose kids have been openly flouting “traditional” values, because they’re that desperate for an inroads.  Every day that modernism exists, they lose a little more ground.  There’s no one alive now that even remembers the idealized Victorian era where imperialism went unquestioned, Christianity was so standard it was practically the law of the land, there was no such word as “racism”, sex was dirty, and women’s rights were a joke. 

None of this is to say that we couldn’t face massive rollbacks of rights.  But that’s what they’ll be—-rollbacks of rights, not a total turning back of the clock.  Fundamentalism exists as a backlash to modernism, and so the hate for modernism extends all the way to self-hate because fundamentalism is dependent on modernism.  I’m not trying to be dismissive of the fact that we have a real struggle going on.  Just pointing out that if the wingnuts are angry all the time, it’s because they’re fighting to win over everyone’s hearts and souls, and that will always be a losing battle. 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 07:53 PM • (33) Comments

The wingnuts I grew up around and as a part of never expected to convert everyone. It was always a matter of waiting for Jesus to come back and wipe out the wicked, and let me tell you, that makes for a pretty pathological childhood. I mean, I was the only member of my church in my grade most of my time in school, which meant that I played with my friends in school with the impression from very young that any day, the world was going to come to an end and they’d be toast while I’d get to live forever in paradise. No wonder I’ve had problems with long-term friendships.

Comment #1: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  10/21  at  08:43 PM

If we can get Obama in power for eight years, Roe V. Wade will never be overturned with the number of Justices he will get to appoint. Not for 35 years, anyway, at the least.

Comment #2: Ben D.  on  10/21  at  08:45 PM

I am convinced that one of the worst things to happen to America was the Hollywood Production Code of the 30s-60s.  Not that it caused direct harm, but because it created a vision of a false America that people seem to believe that we can go back to, that people believe existed.  That it fell during the late 60s was a very bad coincidence.  It magnified the social changes that happened and made the old Hollywood movies seem even more like the truth of a lost past.

This is why people believe there were no abortions before Roe v. Wade - they were banished from popular culture.  Why people think black people didn’t mind slavery.  It’s not that they are stupid, but film has a way of burning into the imagination.  It’s how we feel the past - even those of us who know it wasn’t true.

Note:  I do know that there have been really bad actual bad things that happened in America, but I think the huge false memory of Hollywood is one of the real reasons we cannot move beyond it.

Comment #3: Defeat Seeking Loner  on  10/21  at  09:01 PM

Touching on what you said in the first part, about how they won’t be happy even when they get a theocracy—

It’s not only because the persecution complex is so much a part of the fundamentalist psyche right now, or because they can’t rest with political power and have to control people’s minds.

If they get what they want now (abortion ban, prayer in schools, what have you), it won’t end there. If they kill off or drive out the left, the right will split. We’ve seen this happen. And I don’t doubt that Sarah Palin, however antifeminist we think her (and however antifeminist she is), would be first against the wall for the crowd that doesn’t think women should work outside the home. (Cf. Lafayette, Trotsky.)

Comment #4: Rebecca  on  10/21  at  09:13 PM

Incertus, that sounds much like my upbringing as a Jehovah’s Witness.  It helped create a very strange outlook on the world.

Comment #5: Church Secretary  on  10/21  at  10:10 PM

Bingo, Church Secretary. I feel like I’ve been in recovery for fourteen years now. At least I’ve gotten a career as a poet out of it.

Comment #6: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  10/21  at  10:23 PM

I am convinced that one of the worst things to happen to America was the Hollywood Production Code of the 30s-60s.  Not that it caused direct harm, but because it created a vision of a false America that people seem to believe that we can go back to, that people believe existed.

Word.  Anecdotal evidence:  I know a very religious Catholic woman who loves those old movies on AMC.  And, yes, she really does think that abortions did not exist before Roe v. Wade.

Comment #7: Cat Ion  on  10/21  at  10:37 PM

I’d never thought about that, but it’s true. My (50-something) racist asshat roommate loves those old movies too. He’s also incapable of referring to Sarah Palin’s daughter without prefixing it with “slut”, but at the same time he hate hate hates “Barry”.

Comment #8: banisteriopsis  on  10/21  at  10:49 PM

DSL, that’s interesting. Also helps to explain why the Repubs are so infatuated with the Reagan/John Wayne hero movie thing.

Comment #9: annejumps  on  10/21  at  10:53 PM

I played with my friends in school with the impression from very young that any day, the world was going to come to an end and they’d be toast while I’d get to live forever in paradise.

Literal prayer from my childhood when the family of a friend of mine was vacationing in Florida during a hurricane: “Dear God, I know Meryl is Jewish, but please deliver her and her family from danger. Thank you, amen.”

I’m sure a lot of Christians actually do learn acceptance and respect as children, but I’m also sure a lot of them don’t. And I have to say, I think I became a lot emotionally healthier in that area after I stopped believing in Christianity. I no longer console myself when someone disagrees with me by reminding myself that they’ll go to hell. Instead, I actually have to acknowledge what they’re talking about, and that they might have a point.

Comment #10: Lauren O  on  10/21  at  10:57 PM

A cultivated inferiority complex is a powerful thing in the hands of those who step ahead.

Like vicious dogs who look for rarely given approval from their masters, and ill-tempered such that they interfere with anyone(s) who looks to be bootstrapping themselves up. 

Anti-emulsifiers…

Comment #11: shah8  on  10/21  at  11:15 PM

I always hear people say that christianity makes their life better but I don’t see how. Most christians seem pretty misreable and the ones that aren’t misreable are hypocrits.

Comment #12: karl  on  10/21  at  11:20 PM

This eternal martyrdom is part and parcel of the fundie worldview, and it is why Palin went along with the feckless SNL appearance; she “went into the lions’ den” and emerged with her head held high and her faith intact.  What was a humiliation to people of normal dignity was a crucial station of Palin’s journey to her constituency.

Comment #13: Olgierd  on  10/21  at  11:34 PM

Hey hey hey, who’s trying to imply that a love of TCM goes along with right-wing asshattery?

The problem isn’t that they’re watching the movies—the problem is they don’t know what they’re watching.  A book like The Dame in the Kimono would clear that up right quick.

Don’t blame TCM for their idiocy—they do their best to set up and explain the movies in the 30 seconds they’re allotted at the beginning and the end.  Heck, I have two boxed sets of pre-Code movies that I wouldn’t have at all if not for TCM releasing them.

Comment #14: Mnemosyne  on  10/21  at  11:36 PM

There’s no one alive now that even remembers the idealized Victorian era where imperialism went unquestioned, Christianity was so standard it was practically the law of the land, there was no such word as “racism”, sex was dirty, and women’s rights were a joke.

But Ray Davies is still alive, and we can still listen to the Kinks singing about it.

Comment #15: Pesto  on  10/21  at  11:39 PM

TCM showed Dr. Strangelove this weekend and my wife, daughter, and I watched it.  My daughter had never seen it before, so it was extra fun.

And Dr. Strangelove is incredibly subversive.  It’s not all pablum…

AMC is pretty hit-and-miss, but they have good stuff sometimes too.

TV is only a wasteland if you just watch any crap that happens to come on.  If you look around, and are prepared to turn it off if there’s nothing but crap on, TV can be interesting and educational. 

If you just watch Wheel of Fortune and the network news, forget it…

Comment #16: MikeEss  on  10/21  at  11:58 PM

If you like Dr Strangelove be sure to get the 40th anniversary DVD. It’s got an interview with the guy who did the opening credits that makes it worthwhile. He did it all in grease pencil and glass and meant for it to be a rough draft, but Kubrick loved it as it was and it made the final cut in spite of its typos. I don’t know whether they have “fuckbugs” in California, but when I first saw the movie as a teen I thought of them during the credits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bug

These bugs arrive in massive plagues a few times a year. I don’t get so far out of the city that I have my whole windshield blacked out by these critters. Hurricane Ike must have agreed with them as I saw tons of them last week. It’s rare to see thses critters in October. It could be global warming. The once rare white wing dove is everywhere now and dove hunters confirm my observation they were once uncommon. The “no hope” crying Inca dove is now uncommon, though it once encouraged countless Houstonians to suicide. The fulvus tree-duck is is mightier in numbers than ever before, but fewer geese winter here. The Great Lakes cormorants that used to go to Mexico now prefer our bayous. Things are changing.

Sometimes watching a pre-Hayes Code or early Code film can be quite a shock. Top Hat and the The Black Cat couldn’t have been made five years later.

Comment #17: Bacopa  on  10/22  at  04:29 AM

I call it the Authority Trap—when your supposed power is so great, the smallest act of defiance (or even less-than-eager compliance) challenges your world view as profoundly as outright rebellion would.

Comment #18: heresiarch  on  10/22  at  06:11 AM

The tricky thing is that in order to reestablish your dominance, you have to further demonstrate your power, which provides your victim with yet another opportunity to subvert you, compelling an even more dramatic act of control, inviting yet another subversion, etc.

I think it’s the dynamic that drives a lot of domestic abuse situations—if the spiral continues long enough, only violence and death can satisfy the need for dominance.

Comment #19: heresiarch  on  10/22  at  06:14 AM

“I call it the Authority Trap—when your supposed power is so great, the smallest act of defiance (or even less-than-eager compliance) challenges your world view as profoundly as outright rebellion would.”

Agreed, but would add that this only kicks in big time when the Authority really doesn’t buy it’s own story completely. It’s the difference between “Because I said so” in the “I have a perfectly good and solid reason here, but don’t have time to go into it” sense and in the “I have no rational basis for this but refuse to allow you to discover that” sense.

Comment #20: Lymis  on  10/22  at  09:05 AM

I can relate, Incertus.  As a child, I went to bed every night wondering whether Jesus would come back whilst I slept.  And I felt nervous whenever I hung out with irreligious friends because I thought my guilt by association would make something terrible happen.  Thank dog I snapped out of that after 22 years of paranoia and shame.

Comment #21: SarahMC  on  10/22  at  09:20 AM

Had a religious girlfreind. She was a Seventh-Day Adventist, and tried to hew to their rules while at the same time having fun in the city—an impossible scenario. (Seventh Day Adventists aren’t supposed to drink wine, dance, eat meat, or listen to secular music.) Part of what made things especially hard was that this woman loved to dance, go to theatre, etc. She also had a very strange, ultra-paranoid view of almost everyone else. It caused her to have black, bleak moods. She would explain that she was afraid that all the other people would turn on her and the other Seventh-Day Adventists when the end times came. This was no joke.

Eventually she renounced Seventh-Day Adventism and became an Evangelical Christian. This seemed to help considerably, though it also divided her from her family. She seemed much, much happier and at ease as an Evangelical than she ever was as a Seventh Day. Though of course now she felt called upon to evangelize to her family.

Comment #22: atheist  on  10/22  at  09:44 AM

I always hear people say that christianity makes their life better but I don’t see how. Most christians seem pretty misreable and the ones that aren’t misreable are hypocrits.

Oh, we’re everywhere.  But when you’re mostly live-and-let-live, follow that whole pray-alone-your-connection-to-God-is-a-private-matter, there’s no reason to discuss it in public.

I think there’s a lot of good, a lot for me to think about and learn and wrestle with in Christianity (as well as a lot of other religions), but I don’t want to push it on anyone else, that’s not what it’s for.

Comment #23: twig  on  10/22  at  10:32 AM

Oh, we’re everywhere.  But when you’re mostly live-and-let-live, follow that whole pray-alone-your-connection-to-God-is-a-private-matter, there’s no reason to discuss it in public.

It is when people say that there are no well-adjusted Christians that I feel called by a sense of duty to say that, in fact, I know well-adjusted Christians. Not all Christians are fundamentalists or even conservatives.

I think that I had an unusually easy break from religion. Many others did not.

Comment #24: The Liberalist  on  10/22  at  10:49 AM

Sorry. ‘twas me.

Comment #25: atheist  on  10/22  at  10:51 AM

“Eventually she renounced Seventh-Day Adventism and became an Evangelical Christian. This seemed to help considerably, though it also divided her from her family. She seemed much, much happier and at ease as an Evangelical than she ever was as a Seventh Day. Though of course now she felt called upon to evangelize to her family.”

...which is kind of interesting because Seventh-Day Adventists ARE Evangelical Christians.  Apparently they weren’t evangelical enough for her…

Comment #26: MikeEss  on  10/22  at  11:13 AM

I’m confused about the no dancing or drinking wine. 

Wedding at Cana?  Jesus’ first miracle?  Water into wine?  ????

Comment #27: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  10/22  at  11:26 AM

“I’m confused about the no dancing or drinking wine.”

Just like many other (typically) conservative religious groups, when you’ve already decided something is wrong ahead of time, you find ways to justify your belief rather than looking at what is really there and basing your beliefs on what you find.

Shorter: Jesus told me it was wrong!...

Comment #28: MikeEss  on  10/22  at  11:32 AM

Speaking of evangelical christians, the woman in the video’s evidence that Obama wasn’t a christian is his mother’s atheism and his father’s muslim faith.  So, he chose of his own free will to become a Christian instead of remaining (presumably) an atheist.  Yet this person and others doubt his faith more than those who were brought up in faith and have the potential to alienate family by choosing a different faith or none. 

If he had chosen their sect of Christianity and their political views, he’d be put on a pedestal glorifying the transformative power of Jesus.

Comment #29: Ron O.  on  10/22  at  11:41 AM

Water into wine—my Pentecostal relatives insist Jesus turned the water into grape juice.

No, not kidding.  Brother Don told them so, and (I guess) Jesus told him so.

Comment #30: delagar  on  10/22  at  02:04 PM

H. L. Mencken had a section in The American Mercury  called “American”, which was perhaps a cultural forerunner of The News of the Weird, having various oddities listed by state every month.

One such clipping was from a Southern state(this was during Prohibition, mind you) where a Christian ‘leader’ was quoted as saying that when the Bible spoke favorably of wine, it was talking about unfermented grape juice, unfavorable mentions were those only involving the fermented stuff.

Comment #31: The Dark Avenger and Guardian of 10 Gold Chow Mein  on  10/22  at  06:28 PM

No secular music?

My high school band teacher was a Seventh Day Adventist, and he didn’t have any trouble selecting and conducting secular music! Including selections from The Planets Suite, which smacks a bit of astrology and paganism.

Comment #32: Samantha Vimes  on  10/23  at  03:25 AM

Right, because at weddings, everyone usually serves the good grape juice until their friends are completely toasted, then pulls out the cheap stuff.

Bah.

Comment #33: Lymis  on  10/23  at  10:47 AM
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