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Next entry: Friday Genius Ten “Laugh At Me And Pat Yourselves On The Back” Edition Previous entry: Boycott!

“Glee” takes on disordered eating

I really enjoy the hell out of the show “Glee”, mostly because I love a good burn and Sue Sylvester pops off at least 15 per episode.  A lot of the political hand-wringing over the show gets in my grill after awhile, mostly because it falls in to the “we ignore most of the media while demanding perfection from our allies” kind of thing. Posts like this one bother me, for instance, because a program that would set aside drama and humor in order to simply reaffirm how great my political views are sounds like the most boring thing ever to me.  I do admit to some fascination with the struggle some people have with the show.  To my mind, camp is clearly not for everyone, and I don’t really get why people who don’t like camp simply can’t just shrug it off and find something a little more earnest and a little less wicked, if that’s their speed.  I can’t help but wonder if they just don’t get that it’s supposed to be camp.  Maybe people will never completely accept camp on television, which is sad, because to my mind, it’s by far the campiest of media.  Yes, more than musicals.  They don’t have the Home Shopping Network or any televangelists, and so they can’t compete.

With that out of the way, I have to say that the recent episode “Home” had me worried that the show was moving towards mainstreaming its point of view and abandoning the camp.  Like the commenters at Jezebel noted, there was a whiff of after school special to the whole plot where Mercedes tries a starvation diet to lose 10 pounds in a week, passes out, comes to her senses, and sings Christina Aguilera’s “Beautiful” to the entire school.  Still, I enjoyed the episode, and want the writers to concoct a way for a piano to fall on Will’s head, so that we can just get rid of that character and have Kristin Chenoweth come in permanently as the new glee club coach.  And for all the after school specialness of the episode, I thought the huffing and puffing from Jezebel commenters about the imperfect way the show addressed eating disorders was a little unfair.

The criticisms, if I understand them, are that Mercedes didn’t develop the disorder slowly over time, that it didn’t make sense for her to go from a confident person to so insecure in an episode’s time, and that it was upsetting.  On the last point, I have to point out that they make channel changers for a reason.  On the other two, I have more thoughts.

As for Mercedes’ confidence, I don’t think that’s actually how she’s characterized.  The writers can be really inconsistent with a lot of characters—-including her—-but they’ve never dropped characterizing Mercedes as someone who has a lot of bravado to mask her inner lack of confidence.  I appreciate that, in fact, because it’s true of a lot of teenagers.  Plus, they set it up that Mercedes feels (rightly, in my opinion) that she’s being undervalued in the glee club, and that the Cheerios are her ticket to being treated like the star.  I could totally see her falling straight into Sue’s trap, especially since they created an avenue for Kurt and Mercedes to align themselves more with Sue in the last episode, when they did “Vogue” with her. 


Second of all, I don’t think they characterized Mercedes as having an eating disorder, so the criticism that this was unrealistic misses the mark.  Quin’s speech to her makes it clear that Quin sees Mercedes as someone who is setting foot on that path.  The intervention happens before the disorder really takes hold.  In fact, before Mercedes encounters pressure from other Cheerios and Kurt about starving herself, her approach is standard issue super-healthy—-low fat proteins and vegetables.  We’re meant to think she knows what she’s doing until the other kids get to work on her.  When she passes out from hunger, we’re to assume this is the first time in her life that this has happened.  It would be depressing as hell if they gave Mercedes an actual eating disorder to work out over weeks or months of the show.  I’m glad that they one-offed it, because the show’s at its best when it’s not dealing in super depressing arenas.

Here’s what I liked, and why I’m surprised not to see more enthusiasm from the feminist blogs: I liked that they came out hard against the way that fat people are encouraged to lose weight in rapid, unhealthy ways.  I’m glad that they honored the idea that a fat person’s health matters, which is a rare thing on TV and in our culture.  I’m glad they didn’t do what you see everywhere else, which is to imply that eating disorders are only bad for you if you’re skinny.  They even noted that crash dieting always leads to the person regaining all the weight they lost!

Maybe it just really jumped out at me, because we turned on the TV to watch “Glee”, and the show that happened to be on the channel when we turned it on was “The Biggest Loser”.  I have a major vendetta against that show, which I think objectifies fat people, glorifies unhealthy behavior in the name of health, encourages eating disorders, and promotes an all-or-nothing attitude that subtly discourages people who can’t just give up their lives to dedicate themselves to weight loss from making any moves in the direction of better nutrition and exercise.  Before we flipped the channel, we watched in disgust as they showed a man on the scale who seems to have lost something like 100 pounds in just a couple of months, a task that’s out of the reach of most people and for a good reason, since that requires unhealthy behavior that can kill you.  So flipping to “Glee” and seeing the message that fat people deserve to eat, that eating disorders are never cool, that one shouldn’t have to sacrifice health and self-confidence just because you’re fat?  It seemed almost radical.  It made the after school special aspects of the program seem minor in comparison, because the ideas being portrayed were so different than everything else you see on TV.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:16 AM • (70) Comments

I’ve never seen Glee, but reading this is reminding me of how much I can’t wait for Mad Men and your weekly analysis.

Comment #1: jpellett  on  04/29  at  12:10 PM

There’s a book coming out in July from the woman who does the Mad Men Footnotes blog.  Worth checking out, if you love overanalyzing that show.

Comment #2: Amanda Marcotte  on  04/29  at  12:13 PM

One thing I liked about the show was that when Mercades abandoned her healthy lunch and walked away . . . that lunch actually looked GOOD. Healthy yes, but yummy too. The cynical part of my mind said “where the heck did she find food that looked that good in a school cafe”, though.

Healthy and yummy are not exclusive.

Comment #3: hp  on  04/29  at  12:14 PM

I was actually really nervous about this episode when I saw the previews and I am really glad with how it came out.  As a fat singer myself I LOVE seeing Mercedes on the show having such a killer voice and busting moves without much comment.  I’m so tired of half of the music industry being all about looks. 

I did like that this episode focused on someone other than Rachel for a change, I hope we get more plots focusing on the more “minor” charachters (see also minority characters.)

Comment #4: shinobi42  on  04/29  at  12:18 PM

watched it last night and was actually kind of in shock that the message about health and dieting and it being ok to be whatever size you are wasn’t tempered by some other bullshit.  especially considering how many obesity porn shows are on the air right now and how often i’ve read the phrase “childhood obesity epidemic” in the media. 

i haven’t been the biggest fan of the direction the show’s been taking since its return with more of the songs being plot points outside of glee club rehearsals/performances; it’s a little too high school musical for me, but the mercedes plot made up for it and i even kind of teared up during “beautiful.”

Comment #5: chareth cutestory  on  04/29  at  12:20 PM

There’s a TV show about the purple space-monkey that was the Wonder Twins’ sidekick?

Comment #6: norbizness  on  04/29  at  12:21 PM

I don’t watch either show, but I know that one of the trainers on biggest loser got into a bunch of hot water because she admitted she doesn’t want kids because they’d ruin her figure. OUTRAGE! How dare she be so selfish?

OK, I think the complaints that she could torpedo a new mother’s confidence at getting her figure back are pretty valid. But I really felt like it just shows the pathology in the whole system.

Comment #7: Mighty Ponygirl  on  04/29  at  12:22 PM

I liked this post (and generally like it when you do tv criticism). I agree that Glee is best when it isn’t so preachy, but I also agree that at least they were preaching a sermon we don’t normally hear on tv.
I hope they don’t lose the campiness. I thought this episode was WAY too heavy on the earnest ballads and heart-to-hearts.

Comment #8: bethany  on  04/29  at  12:30 PM

I think though, that a lot of the people who have a hate on about Glee (my husband being one of them, btw) is that it’s not just about hating the camp. I think there’s also a realization that maybe they’re not getting it. There’s camp I don’t like, but I get. I don’t like Monty Python (ducks the tomatoes) but I get Monty Python. And thus, I can understand why other people like it and I don’t hate Monty Python.

I’ve been trying to parse what they’re doing with Santana and Brittany over the past few episodes (and I really think that the big interrupt was a problem here, some of the subtle stuff from early episodes has been lost to mind). They’re playing out that college/twenty-something partying stereotype of the girls who make out with one another simply to titillate the guys, on top of two girls who have an emotional connection to one another, who are also be played as too dumb or too in denial to consider the possibility that they actually just want to be with each other. It’s depressing and hilarious all at once, and it’s all being done in the background of the major stories.

My husband said something about WTF is going on with those two? and I tried to explain the college/twenty-something stereotype to him since we’re just old enough that it wasn’t really as present back when we were in college, and he still didn’t really get it. His only response was that no cheerleaders would have risked being labeled. And he couldn’t see how by playing around that particular cultural issue would perhaps even in a hs environment today, perhaps prevent them being labeled as anything but the “fun girls.” Thus, he hates it, because it doesn’t make any sort of sense to him.

Comment #9: hp  on  04/29  at  12:30 PM

one of the trainers on biggest loser got into a bunch of hot water because she admitted she doesn’t want kids because they’d ruin her figure. OUTRAGE!

I wonder if she’s just presenting a socially more acceptable reason than “I don’t want kids.” Particularly in her social circles, it might be much more acceptable.

Comment #10: Theron  on  04/29  at  12:31 PM

I, too, enjoyed the episode. It also felt to me like an affirmation that being “overweight” doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re unhealthy. Mercedes has to be in great shape to keep up with all the dancing done on the show. Also, she is my favorite character, and I adore her singing voice ... which may have biased me towards enjoying that episode a lot more than I would’ve otherwise, heh.

Comment #11: Samus  on  04/29  at  12:31 PM

I find myself basically fast-forwarding through some plot lines.  Kurt sets up his dad with Finn’s mom so he can be roommates with Finn was one of those story lines.  (Finn’s half of the story about accepting the fact that his dad is dead was effective, however.)  I wondered if my discomfort about it was due to residual homophobia on my part, but I think I’d have been equally put off if it was a straight boy using his parents to get close to a hot girl classmate.

I found the fake pregnancy plot from the first half of the season really off-putting, and am REALLY glad it is over.

I mostly watch for the music, however.  Has anybody told Kristin Chenoweth that she can really sing?

Comment #12: misplacedpatriot  on  04/29  at  12:33 PM

There’s a TV show about the purple space-monkey that was the Wonder Twins’ sidekick?

No, you’re thinking of Gleek Club, not Glee Club.  You should see our annual rumble with the Gazoo Appreciation Society!

Comment #13: Sour Kraut  on  04/29  at  12:38 PM

I mostly watch for the music, however.  Has anybody told Kristin Chenoweth that she can really sing?

She was the original Glinda in Wicked on Broadway wink She’s a Broadway star who has shifted her way into television.

Comment #14: hp  on  04/29  at  12:40 PM

I have quibbles with Glee that mostly involve the writing (in terms of plot and characterization), but I love this show like it was one of my kids, so I forgive all flaws. I am beyond excited to see the episode Joss Whedon directed next month.

Comment #15: maurinsky  on  04/29  at  12:46 PM

She was the original Glinda in Wicked on Broadway She’s a Broadway star who has shifted her way into television.

And I’m seeing her tomorrow on Broadway in Promises, Promises!

BTW - Amanda, did your post get cut off? It ends with ” With that out of the way, I have to say that ” and then links back to Jezebel.

Comment #16: rivki  on  04/29  at  12:47 PM

Theron—really, any “reason” for not wanting kids is as valid as another. I don’t want kids because I like having nice long uninterrupted sleeping, disposable income, and the ability to sack out playing videogames uninterrupted. I feel these are all valid reasons, and no more or less “selfish” than her reason for wanting to keep her figure, which is obviously important to her. Yeah, I’m never going to be that gung-ho about my body, but she might not care about playing Fallout 3 through again with a character specifically designed after the “People getting punched right before eating” video.

Comment #17: Mighty Ponygirl  on  04/29  at  12:52 PM

Mighty Ponygirl:

I wasn’t giving my judgement as to the validity of her reason, but speculating about how concern over public perceptions might shape how that woman chose to frame her decision publicly. It certainly wouldn’t be my place to pass judgement on something like that.

Comment #18: Theron  on  04/29  at  01:26 PM

I generally enjoy camp now and then, but can’t connect with Glee.  My daughter and her HS friends from drama, chorus, pep squad think it’s absolutely drop dead funny.

Comment #19: helen w. h.  on  04/29  at  01:32 PM

Theron—I wasn’t saying you were. I’m just pointing out that we really need to get over this idea that a woman should have to give any reason at all for not wanting kids, or that those reasons should be held up as valid/invalid on anything other than “I don’t want kids.”

Comment #20: Mighty Ponygirl  on  04/29  at  01:38 PM

The Jezebel commenters are right that eating disorders usually develop more slowly. On the other hand, it’s entirely possible for acute starvation to bring about abrupt behavioral and personality changes. Look at Ansel Keyes’ WW2-era studies of experimental starvation in healthy young men with no history of food or weight issues. Just the malnutrition was enough to trigger a lot of classic ED behavior very quickly.

Comment #21: Lindsay Beyerstein  on  04/29  at  01:39 PM

Man I can’t believe you just dissed the HSN.  I have some of the best outfits ever from there, and shopnbc’s Pamela McCoy. 

I’ll have to try and get past this and read the rest of the post. 

I dare anyone to tell me this isn’t a really cool dress!  http://fashion.hsn.com/colleen-lopez-my-favorite-things-faux-wrap-dress_p-5867630_xp.aspx?web_id=5867636

I just ordered last night.  Go ahead mock me, I don’t care.

Comment #22: JennyLI  on  04/29  at  01:45 PM

Um, I don’t see anything after “with that out of the way I have to say that…”

Is it just me?  Isn’t the rest of the post missing?

Comment #23: JennyLI  on  04/29  at  01:47 PM

Um, I don’t see anything after “with that out of the way I have to say that…”

Is it just me?  Isn’t the rest of the post missing?

There appears to be an HTML screwup that is affecting IE (8 is what I used to look) and not affecting the various Firefox flavors. I see the whole post in FF, and the part post in IE.

Comment #24: hp  on  04/29  at  02:00 PM

Amanda, there is an extra double quote after the words the recent episode “Home” and that is what is screwing up IE.

Comment #25: hp  on  04/29  at  02:01 PM

Can people log in yet?

Comment #26: Amanda Marcotte  on  04/29  at  05:14 PM

I generally enjoy camp now and then, but can’t connect with Glee.  My daughter and her HS friends from drama, chorus, pep squad think it’s absolutely drop dead funny.

Same here. I gave it a couple of episodes based on good reviews and the presence of Jane Lynch, but it wasn’t for me. Not a bad show, but it didn’t click.

However, I liked the positive message sent by the QB character who resisted peer pressure and also by the inclusiveness of the glee club, so I recommended it to a friend and her twelve-year-old daughter. Both really enjoy it.

Comment #27: Gracchus.  on  04/29  at  05:15 PM

Guess that’s a “yes,” Amanda.

Comment #28: Gracchus.  on  04/29  at  05:16 PM

I’m for legalization. But I still enjoy watching potheads and trailer trash getting busted on COPS.

I’m surprised not to see more enthusiasm from the feminist blogs

Hater Gonna hate

Comment #29: sirkowski  on  04/29  at  05:44 PM

I still don’t get anything past “I have to say that”.

Comment #30: helen w. h.  on  04/29  at  05:46 PM

I have no idea what to do about that.  Maybe it’s a cache problem?

Comment #31: Amanda Marcotte  on  04/29  at  06:01 PM

I can’t relate to characters who care about school activities. I’ve tried, but every time school stuff motivates the plot, I think, “ditch and smoke pot.” This is something that’s wrong with me, clearly, not the show.

Sorry, just couldn’t let suggestion that camp turns me off go unanswered (yes, I know you weren’t directing it at me). I *live* for camp.

Comment #32: humanadverb  on  04/29  at  06:22 PM

The thing that annoyed me about ‘Home’ is the whole ‘my eating disorder has gone away since I got pregnant.’  Sorry, eating disorders don’t just go away because a person realizes ‘hey, I need to eat.’  People with eating disorders know they should eat.  They know that they are not being rational when it comes to food.  But they are too afraid to eat and often feel undeserving of food.  A pregnancy is not a magical fix to an eating disorder. It might help a person start to make changes, but it is not a solution or cure for disordered eating.  Presenting it as such is a bad idea.

Comment #33: JoanofArc  on  04/29  at  06:24 PM

JoanofArc, pregnancy is supposed to be a magical fix for EVERYTHING. Look at how often women crow that they never needed to smoke another cigarette or have a drink once they got pregnant. It’s just more anti-choice propaganda that there isn’t a thinking, feeling woman in the equation of a pregnancy who might have her own needs, urges, and habits, there’s just a vessel that is laser-focused on bringing the miraculous gift from God into the world.

Talk to a woman who struggled and failed to quit smoking throughout her pregnancy, or couldn’t give up that morning cup of coffee even though caffeine is supposed to be verboten about it. God forbid she order mousse or try some soft cheese.

Comment #34: Mighty Ponygirl  on  04/29  at  07:05 PM

Sorry, that should have read “look at how often women *as portrayed in the media* crow that they never needed to smoke another cigarette…”

One of the popular little narratives alongside “I think it should be legal but I would never have one” is this magical fetus power to remove all of a woman’s pre-existing habits and needs.

Comment #35: Mighty Ponygirl  on  04/29  at  07:07 PM

I really enjoy watching Glee, and I love the over-the-top-ness of it.  That being said, yeah, there are some aspects of the show that really set my teeth on edge, and the way that everyone in the show is showed to be neurotic EXCEPT the main character.  He gets to be this normal, aimiable person in the sea of crazy people, and crazy scheming women in particular.  He really feels like an author-standin so often it’s irritating.

Comment #36: Antigone  on  04/29  at  07:14 PM

Kurt sets up his dad with Finn’s mom so he can be roommates with Finn was one of those story lines.  (Finn’s half of the story about accepting the fact that his dad is dead was effective, however.) I wondered if my discomfort about it was due to residual homophobia on my part, but I think I’d have been equally put off if it was a straight boy using his parents to get close to a hot girl classmate.

I actually really liked that subplot (a bit more than the main plot, actually) because it backfires so spectacularly on Kirk when he becomes jealous of Finn developing a relationship with his dad.  He came up with a clever plan to see Finn more often that only managed to trigger some of his deepest insecurities.

So I guess I don’t mind icky premises as long as they backfire on the person who came up with them.

Comment #37: Mnemosyne  on  04/29  at  08:13 PM

Central characters usually NEED to be more bland than anybody else.  They’re the hub.

Comment #38: Eric_RoM  on  04/29  at  08:22 PM

MP,

She can not want kids for any reason she wants. It’s an obnoxious comment for what it says about other women’s bodies. My body is not “ruined,” thank you very much.

Comment #39: chingona  on  04/29  at  08:28 PM

Right on about the Biggest Loser.  I have actually found Jamie Oliver’s Food Revolution more gratifying as he is focusing on healthy eating and changing the structures of how food comes to us over the narcissistic and unhealthy approach of the Biggest Loser.

Comment #40: dave  on  04/29  at  09:01 PM

chingona—Her decision to keep her body from being mucked around with by a pregnancy is valid. It might be that women in her family don’t handle pregnancy and the recovery well, and she knows this.

A LOT of women come out of pregnancy incredibly unhappy with how their body has altered as a result of the hormones and extra weight. If her physical form is that important to her I don’t see any reason she shouldn’t be honest about her reasons not to have kids.

Comment #41: Mighty Ponygirl  on  04/29  at  09:55 PM

Well, this is interesting. First, she does want kids. She plans to adopt. Second, her actual words were “I can’t handle doing that to my body.” I actually see a pretty big difference between that formulation, which is only about herself, and saying “I don’t want to ruin my body.” Interesting that “ruin” is the word everyone ran with.

Comment #42: chingona  on  04/29  at  10:17 PM

And just to reiterate, though I said it in my first comment as well, she can have any reason she wants. I never said her reason wasn’t valid.

Comment #43: chingona  on  04/29  at  10:23 PM

...have Kristin Chenoweth come in permanently as the new glee club coach.

You want more overly long ballads?  I want more cutting humor.

Now, if Sue took over the glee club I’d be in heaven.  20+ minutes of Jane Lynch every week?  Yes please!

Comment #44: Andy  on  04/29  at  11:16 PM

Of course it’s a myth that getting pregnant automatically shakes you out of an eating disorder or addiction.

On the other hand, a lot of people who get over addictions do so because they’ve reached some sort of breaking point. The big myth is that the only sufficiently powerful impasse is a state of utter wretchedness known as Hitting Bottom. For some people, that’s the impetus they need. For others, it’s something more positive. One long-recovered addict I know got sober because she knew she’d gotten a full scholarship to grad school that she expected to lose if she kept using. Another friend decided to get sober and stop starving herself because she decided she really wanted to be a mom upon finding herself unexpectedly pregnant—prison and other “hitting bottom” type stuff hadn’t been enough to shake her out of her addiction, but the prospect of something transformatively positive motivated her to reshape her life. There’s a lot of research to back up the idea that recovery isn’t necessarily catalyzed by abject misery.

So, I can’t get too worked up by depictions of pregnant women who tackle their addictions and compulsions because they choose to carry unexpected pregnancies to term. If the show makes it seem like the disorder magically melts away, that’s dishonest. But if the pregnancy is seen as the proximate motivation for seriously going into recovery, that’s within the realm of the realistic.

Comment #45: Lindsay Beyerstein  on  04/30  at  01:30 AM

I have quibbles with Glee that mostly involve the writing (in terms of plot and characterization), but I love this show like it was one of my kids, so I forgive all flaws. I am beyond excited to see the episode Joss Whedon directed next month.

Welp, most likeable character’s gonna die.

Comment #46: Dan  on  04/30  at  03:46 AM

He gets to be this normal, aimiable person in the sea of crazy people, and crazy scheming women in particular.  He really feels like an author-standin so often it’s irritating.

Are you talking about Will here? I think part of the point of the past few episodes was to see that he is as messed up in his own particular brand of crazy as the rest. His neuroses are mores subtle than those of the others he interacts with, and I have to wonder if they’re going for the “subtle yet more destructive” aspect.  At least if your crazy is at the surface, you’ve accepted it as part of you. But Will has this nice-guy surface that he believes to be the truth of him, and we’ve at least seen a few times that he’s heavily suppressing some major rage under that facade.

Comment #47: hp  on  04/30  at  10:57 AM

On a different computer from a different location, still nothing past “I have to say that”.

Comment #48: helen w. h.  on  04/30  at  11:00 AM

everyone in the show is showed to be neurotic EXCEPT the main character.  He gets to be this normal, aimiable person in the sea of crazy people, and crazy scheming women in particular.

I have heard this complaint, but assuming the main character is Will, I’m not totally sure he does get to be normal or amiable. I feel like he’s also a screwed up schemer. Think about him planting pot in Finn’s locker to force him into Glee club! He’s so obsessed with his own glory days (as his wife rightly points out) that he’ll stop at nothing to make it successful. I think his plotlines are often paralleled with Finn’s in such a way as to emphasize that they’re at about the same maturity level.

He’s attractive and gets a lot of screen time, but he’s also selfish and self-centered. Think of the cringe-inducing scene where he raps “Gold Digger” and dances around with the kids; he wants to be idolized. As soon as he has Acafellas, he quits Glee and blows Rachel off; when Acafellas falls apart, he’s right back in the practice room. He keeps forcing a disco medley onto the kids and they end up defying him to do “Push It.” He brings in an alcoholic dropout ringer to make the club succeed and STILL doesn’t want to get rid of her, even after she’s started sleeping with the football team and giving Kurt wine, because she can help the team win.

I do think that he’s often set up to be the “likable guy,” but I also think the show subverts that fairly often. He’s selfish and arrogant and self-obsessed and clinging to his past and directionless in the future. He’s finally found something inspiring to do—coach Glee—but often lets his own insecurities, obsessions, and ego get in the way.

The plotline where he flirts with Emma while still unhappily married to Teri and then IMMEDIATELY tries to hook up with Emma and then IMMEDIATELY makes out with Vocal Adrenaline’s coach, shares a bed with Teri, etc. I think characterizes him too as flighty, hormonal, insecure, horny, and kind of an ass.

One of my favorite things about Glee is that Shue pretty consistently messes up, then occasionally redeems himself, but continues to ack self-knowledge. I’m not sure he’s the “main” character any more than Rachel or Finn—he gets a lot of screen time and development, but so do they. And despite her neuroses about cleanliness, Emma’s the only character who seems to be able to get Will to act mature or rational (getting rid of April, postponing their relationship until he’s actually divorced).

ANYWAY. Tl;dr. But I think most of the characters, including Will, are pretty rounded (via their own special flavors of crazy).

Comment #49: peggy  on  04/30  at  11:18 AM

ah, I see hp beat me to it—in a much more concise manner, to boot. smile

Comment #50: peggy  on  04/30  at  11:18 AM

Somehow, my message from yesterday on what’s wrong in the HTML of the post got disappeared.

title=” the recent episode “Home” “

In the link to the jezebel.com story is hosing up Internet Explorer. You can’t legally nest double quotes like that in HTML.  Firefox is being smart enough to cope, IE isn’t.

Easiest solution is to change to:

title=” the recent episode Home ”

Amanda, if you’re using some sort of HTML composer that hides the underlying structure from you, just take out any quotes around the word Home near that link and see if it solves the problem.  I’m still seeing it after clearing my local cache multiples times, so the mis-placed quotes are still present in the text.

Comment #51: hp  on  04/30  at  11:22 AM

Hah, only more concise because I started getting off into the weeds on examples. There are too many examples—the more you start thinking about it, the more you start to realize how much stuff seems to be getting loaded in just under the surface.

But talking about the Finn/Will parallel . . . it was pretty obvious in the beginning that Finn/Quinn was supposed to be Will/Terri redux.  Then Finn and Quinn both got hit in the head with reality, which only just happened to Will/Terri (Terri at the beginning of the season, Will with the reveal about the fake pregnancy). And that’s kind of sad—not only were Will and Terri both arrested in development as people back about age 15, their relationship was probably the primary cause of that arrested development.

Although, here is the primary point on which some of this all falls apart on me. How exactly was Will, whose primary activity was apparently Glee Club, a Mr. Popularity equal to Finn back in high school? If their Glee Club was more on the social level of Vocal Adrenaline back then, what exactly happened in the meantime?

Comment #52: hp  on  04/30  at  11:35 AM

It’s an IE issue?  Oh thank god, hp.  I was like, “Okay, well I give up because I don’t see it.”  Obviously, I’m using Firefox.  Should be fixed.

Comment #53: Amanda Marcotte  on  04/30  at  11:39 AM

hp, I think it’s pretty realistic to say that the glee club was on top of things in the early 90s when they were winning, and then it fell apart.  A lot of schools have these ebbs and flows in extracurricular activities, depending on how talented the kids are. Like my high school’s speech team wasn’t so great before my sophomore year, and then all of a sudden, it took off.

Comment #54: Amanda Marcotte  on  04/30  at  11:40 AM

I definitely agree that the team’s talent & success level will affect their popularity. It seemed like the old club was basically defunct (thus Will’s new club, “New Directions”?) with the death of the former coach—Sandy Ryerson seemed to have his focus elsewhere—and the Cheerios’ insane ongoing success probably helped glee club’s star fall.

Although I will say that the football team’s portrayed as not very good but Finn’s still popular. Maybe just Quinn playing into the stereotype of head-cheerleader-dates-QB?

Then again, he also plays basketball (and possibly a spring sport too? Baseball maybe?) so maybe that’s how he got so popular.

Comment #55: peggy  on  04/30  at  11:56 AM

I’m glad I wasn’t seeing things re: the parallels between Will/ Finn and the Will/Terri relationship with Finn/Quinn.

The reason I say that Will gets to be the “normal” one is because he seems to be the one that the writer is going “Here!  Feel sympathy for this person” without actually saying that.  It’s “he’s getting jerked around to work more hours by his lazy, harpy, materialistic wife!”  “He’s such a good person, he isn’t strictly cheating with his wife, even though he’s stressed and there’s this hot girl that wants him”.  I mean, when Ken calls him on flirting with his wife he says “I never encouraged Emma.  But I guess I never discouraged her either”.  It’s all on Emma, that what she’s doing is wrong, when he did in fact encourage her, but they act like we’re just supposed to forget all of that. 

And then there’s the “Poor Will, look at how he’s being jerked around by Principle Figgins and Sue.  They’re being so over-the-top unreasonable, and all he’s done is some unethical things to get the group in the first place, shouldn’t he get a cookie?”  Even when he goes to play rock star for a while, it seemed like that the show portrayed that as okay because the group was “abandoning him” for a choreographer.  It never shows Sue as being reasonable.  She’s super unreasonable she’s veering into super-villian status.  And that’s funny.  She gets to be a character every once in awhile, but she is, for the most part, able to play stock. 

The characters all play stock to a certain degree, and they like to have fun with that (and I really appreciate it).  But, what I like is “Look, here’s the stock character!” in really obvious ways, then go around subverting it in much more subtle ones.  Like Racheal is “Look, here’s the ambitious bitchy one!” but then, slowly, you get that she’s also the one who has the most self-knowledge of the group, she’s focused, and a lot more insecure than people seem to think.  I don’t see the signs making Will the “Nice Guy”.  He’s the “regular guy that just has all these crazy people around him”.

Comment #56: Antigone  on  04/30  at  12:03 PM

Antigone: I’ve always had the feeling that there are moments when we the viewers (having seen everything that’s going on and Will’s behavior) are supposed to be mentally uttering “oh, bullshit” at Will. But that’s always a hard setup to pull off well.

Comment #57: hp  on  04/30  at  12:35 PM

Although, I will say I do not like where they’ve gone with the new blackmail material Sue has on Figgins. Before, the Sue-Figgins sideshow (and blackmail) was as ridiculous as the situations they were setting up for Will, and there was always the impression that if Will was willing to step up and mount an actual, logical challenge to Sue, things could change. The fact that he always just threw up his hands in the face of the ridiculous was one of his flaws.

What Sue has now on Figgins isn’t something that’s going to fall flat if released, it’s real career-destroying blackmail in education. Even if we know that she drugged him and then apparently undressed him and laid next to him fully clothed until she could take the picture.

Comment #58: hp  on  04/30  at  12:45 PM

Yeah, I don’t think Will is actually supposed to be the perfect protagonist that a lot of people seem to think.  Really, he is the worst of them all.  He’s that teacher who seemed cool when you were in high school, but you later realize was just a pathetic 30 year old dude who desperately needed the approval of teenagers to feel good about himself.  He’s a bit of a bigot (only ever gives the leads to Rachel and Finn because he thinks the club won’t win with Mercedes, Kurt, Tina, or Artie at the helm) and when called on it he clumsily over-corrects (“Maybe one of these days you’ll find a way to create teaching moments without ruining my life”) while STILL missing the point (holding a sing-off and then forgetting all about it, instead of making sure to choose songs for all members of the club).  This is a guy who is so completely self-absorbed that he had no idea his wife wasn’t pregnant, and had the nerve to FLIP THE FUCK out at her when he was the one who was emotionally cheating the entire time.  I don’t think these flaws are accidental, and I don’t think viewers are supposed to overlook them; Glee is an unusually self-aware show.  People who criticize the show because the only sane, relatable character is the adult white male are actually missing the point: he is the most flawed character of all. 

So basically: Love Glee, hate Will Schuster.

Comment #59: mamram  on  04/30  at  01:27 PM

She [Kristin] was the original Glinda in Wicked on Broadway wink She’s a Broadway star who has shifted her way into television.

I was excited to see Idina Menzel (Kristin’s co-star and Tony winner in Wicked) as the rival group’s director.  No singing from her then but I’m sure they’ll get around to it.  I have high hopes for a duet between Kristin and Idina.

Without the camp the would be another, lamer version of High School Musical, and would have died a quick death.  Plus, Jane Lynch’s talents would have been wasted.

Comment #60: MiddleageLiberal  on  04/30  at  01:40 PM

As a huge Glee fan, I’m happy to see this post.

The Feministing post was curious because it seemed to be blaming the show for a lot of stuff that comes from characters who are clearly portrayed as people you’re not supposed to like.  Like, saying the show is anti-Semitic because the antagonists bullied Rachel for being Jewish. 

It reminds me of a discussion I got in recently about the scene in Ep. 14 where Sue roofied Principal Figgins (I’m hesitant to say “raped” because I think the show implied there was no rape, she just took a picture that suggested it).  The person I was arguing with was saying it promotes/makes light of rape, and I think that’s ignoring the fact that Sue is the show’s biggest antagonist, and so you can’t really look at anything she does as something the show is PROMOTING per se. 

And I may get raked over the coals for this, but: I don’t think the joke was making light of rape at all.  I think, on the contrary, it works because rape IS an awful, awful thing, and the fact that Sue would stoop that low to blackmail Figgins just shows the ridiculous extent of her amorality and selfishness.  That’s not to say that the scene wasn’t problematic and potentially triggering, but I don’t know if I agree that it’s rape-apologist as the person I was discussing this with seemed to think it was.

(Also, Amanda, I’d be really interested to hear what you think about that scene.)

Comment #61: Erda  on  04/30  at  02:09 PM

“The Feministing post was curious because it seemed to be blaming the show for a lot of stuff that comes from characters who are clearly portrayed as people you’re not supposed to like.  Like, saying the show is anti-Semitic because the antagonists bullied Rachel for being Jewish.”

That Feministing post was bizarre in general.  The entire thing seemed to be full of confusion over the distinction between a character’s behavior and an author’s/writer’s endorsement of that behavior.

Comment #62: mamram  on  04/30  at  02:54 PM

I wished they hadn’t made a rape joke.  I think they thought it was okay because it was a woman on a man—-or because sex didn’t really take place—-but I thought it was ill-advised.  In general, the vast majority of rape references on TV—-I’d say upwards of 90%—-reinforce myths about rape.  If that number was reversed, I wouldn’t have minded it.  But it’s not funny when most of the audience doesn’t take rape very seriously.  It has no fissure, no disconnect.

Comment #63: Amanda Marcotte  on  04/30  at  03:55 PM

“So, I can’t get too worked up by depictions of pregnant women who tackle their addictions and compulsions because they choose to carry unexpected pregnancies to term. If the show makes it seem like the disorder magically melts away, that’s dishonest. But if the pregnancy is seen as the proximate motivation for seriously going into recovery, that’s within the realm of the realistic. “

Not really. I’m betting that most pregant alcoholics don’t quit just because the pregnancy fairy paid a visit.

We know that it doesn’t happen that way for a large number of women in the US. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome occurs at a rate of around 2 babies per live birth in the US. It doesn’t occur in women who drink less than 8-9 drinks per week, and is unlikely to occur in women who drink up to 14 drinks a week.  A pregnant woman who is drinking more than 14 drinks a week has some kind of problem. If we assume that most of them aren’t trying to wreck their babies, then they’re engaged in a destructive behavior that they can’t stop on their own.

Comment #64: Dawn  on  04/30  at  04:09 PM

Glee actually approaches Battlestar Galactica levels of not being able to figure out how aware the writers are of what an asshole they’re making their male lead out to be.

Comment #65: Dan  on  04/30  at  05:14 PM

2 babies per 100 live births.  Some estimates are as low as 0.2.

Comment #66: keshmeshi  on  04/30  at  06:11 PM

I’m one of the aforementioned people who don’t watch Glee because it’s too camp for me, but also because I can’t stop thinking of the Mr G segments of Summer Heights High, particularly the musical at the end. Anyone who’s seen it will know what I mean.

Comment #67: Stubborn Kind of Fellow  on  04/30  at  06:31 PM

Amanda - Yeah, I’d have to agree that something that like only works if the audience is enlightened.  The problem is, we have an audience who are used to rape being common joke fodder.  I don’t think Glee approached it in the way that a lot of shows do, where the victim is blamed or it’s implied to be not that horrible.  The problem is that a lot of people are not going to make that distinction.  They could have chosen a better way for Sue to blackmail Principal Figgins.

Comment #68: Erda  on  05/01  at  03:34 AM

I’m sticking with Glee - for now - because of the Camp, but various things are really bothering me.  E.g. Teri - a horrible stereotype given absolutely no redeeming features (ditto her sister).  The other named characters are at least given a semblance of depth/explanation for fuck-ups (eg Puck), but not her.

Also, the writing is very uneven.  I got the feeling they were trying to go for Lost-level multi-stranded stories, but just couldn’t pull it off.  For a while, every week seemed to concentrate on one aspect of a on-going plot, to the detriment of the others, which the previous week had been All Important.  It got to the point where I couldn’t make head nor tail of the timeline.

Anyhow, still watching, because it seems to have upticked with the Madonna epsiode.

Comment #69: Katherine  on  05/01  at  06:24 AM

“No, you’re thinking of Gleek Club, not Glee Club.”

The first rule of Gleek Clug is you do not talk about Gleek Club. The second rule of Gleek Club is you have to assume the form of water or the shape of an animal.

Comment #70: Prodigal  on  05/02  at  03:08 PM
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