that’s what i hope, amanda.

i like michelle obama as a style icon because it does undermine the idea that good dresser or “pretty” and smart/competent don’t go together.  i think as first lady she’ll take at least some opportunity to display her intellectual prowess.  she clearly doesn’t want to be co-president, but i don’t think she’s going to be content redecorating and reading to little kids all the time either (not that either of those things are bad, just you know, she’s not a stepford wife and probably won’t be viewed as pure ornamentation, judging by media coverage of her so far anyway).  hopefully her presence will help to move us forward in some small way.  she seems pretty kickass.

her clothing choices are also, if i may note, a big jump forward generationally.  no more of the matronly oscar de la renta, thank god!  i like how she is open about mixing designer pieces with off-the-rack mall stuff.  it is very much what today’s generation of young people do fashion-wise (to the extent they’re able to pick up a couture piece now and then in the first place, of course).  high fashion meets low is very NOW. 

for the record, i really liked her victory night dress, although it looks like i am in the minority on this.

I love that she wears accessible clothing. In a materialistic society, it is at least a step in a good direction for people to have a good example of high style on an ordinary budget.

I loved the victory night dress, not because I thought it was the most flattering thing I’ve seen on Michelle (or even close) but because it was such a bold and interesting choice.

This, of course, is coming from someone who, surrounded by preppies in high school (yes, I’m that old), frequently proclaimed that I’d rather look interesting than good, if forced to choose. I also was the queen of mixing and matching styles and rescuing treasures from second-hand stores because I had a very small budget.

To the extent that participation in fashion amounts to a competition for women who must conform to prescribed rules and spend huge amounts of money, it deserves whatever mockery it gets. But using creativity, imagination and artistry to create interesting appearance and stretch the definition of ‘stylish’ (and bash gender conformity) ROCKS!

One interesting thing for me in that Newsweek series was reading about how disciplined BHO is about food and exercise.  It seems a little extreme to me, but if it works for him…

I’m a little hostile to the automatic dismissal that fashion gets as shamefully lightweight, because it seems to me that it’s more demonizing of the feminine. 

Me too.  Of course, like Michelle Obama, I consider myself very much a girly girl.  And in the world of clothing, “pretty” is not the same as “uncomfortable” or “impractical.”  Michelle Obama has often appeared in dresses and flats, which are perfectly serviceable for most day-to-day activities. 

It’s easy to contrast the treatment of fashion with the treatment of, say, fine cooking—also expensive and unnecessary, but almost nobody assumes you’re stupid just because you’re into fancy food. 

More importantly, I think her beauty and stylishness will be a bulwark against the inevitable right wing smear campaign that will try to paint her as a scary ballbuster, as they did to Hillary Clinton, except for Michelle Obama it will be worse because the right wing smears will (as they have already) incorporated racist ideas about the Angry Black Woman.

I’m white, so I feel a bit presumptuous saying this, but I don’t think it’s stepping out on a limb too much to say that there’s a white cultural narrative that says that black women cannot be “respectable”—you know, pretty, feminine, “ladylike”, married mothers, symbols of traditional feminine domesticity, blah, blah, blah.  That’s the source of the ridiculous “babymama” statement on Fox, to give just one example. 

I don’t know whether it’s a step forward for a black woman to be able to embody that “respectability” for a nation—indeed, I am not sure I’m qualified to judge that—but my gut would say yes, even though it’s a very confining and pre-feminist model and many women of all races reject it.

(I am not saying MO necessarily WILL behave just like Laura Bush—I hope she doesn’t—but that in my mind is what the First Lady symbolizes.)

If shabbiness and poor dressing were the criteria, everyone in Seattle would be considered intellectual.

Really, fleece at a funeral?  Geeze.

Oh, and put me in the column that found the victory night dress (the red & black one, right?) totally UNflattering.  Usually I like her look, but not that night.

Frankly, it made her look pregnant.  Which would be GREAT if she was, but not so much when you’re not.  (First Baby.)

What are the odds that the First Lady is appointed to head up a task force to develop a new health care system?

political geeks are not all shabbily dressed, weirdly undersexed goobers.

So, it’s just me then?

mKxIhY gkyjkgkwfoiu, lojttfjyfypy

Did Amanda get a disemvoweler and turn it loose on Larry?

I didn’t like the black and red dress, but if anybody could wear it, it would have to be someone tall and curvy like her.

I suspect that her “creativity” and style were once heavily driven by the need to find tall clothing on a budget, and to alter dress patterns and even existing clothing to get clothes that fit.  Restrictions can sometimes push people into a highly individual style like that.

Ms Kate, I’m pretty sure it’s just a poorly-configured spambot.

I love that Michelle Obama dresses like a human being. (And dresses her girls like normal kids, too.) Mind you, I also have a crush on Jill Biden, who dresses more traditionally. The first thing I said when Michelle came out on stage on victory night was, “What the heck is she wearing?” but that dress has grown on me since then. I really like the colour, and the sash around the waist is quite interesting.

Michelle seems smart and tough, which I love about her, and purely from an aesthetic point of view I really have liked most of the things she’s worn on the campaign trail. I wish people wouldn’t obsess so much about what female public figures wear, but I also love that she seems to just wear what she likes and what SHE thinks looks good on her, and not stress about fitting some pre-made mold. (I don’t know her, of course, and maybe she does stress in private—but she didn’t suddenly change her style once Barack became famous or anything, either.) The fact that Barack has campaigned in blue jeans makes me think both of them are pretty comfortable in their bodies, which is great.

Anyway, I am really going to enjoy watching this First Family over the next few years. They are made of awesome, and for the first time ever I feel like they are people I could relate to if I actually knew them.

Ms. Obama’s statuesque physicality projects so much dynamism that she needs to be careful not to dress too powerfully.  I would suggest that she wear mid-length dresses that are cut on the bias, designs that glide over the body in such a way as to emphasize her demure femininity.  As to specific fabric choices, I’d go with a summer weight camo of the British desert pattern, as the tans and olive shades would make her brown skin glow with radiance.  Epaulettes and ALICE clips should be discreet and downsized to diffuse the military nature of the clothing.

Any of you ladies who are seeking tasteful survival garb, be sure to consult with Mr. Rugged of Montana.

Frankly, it made her look pregnant.  Which would be GREAT if she was, but not so much when you’re not.  (First Baby.)

A First Baby!! I don’t think we’ve ever had one of those, have we? I think they said the youngest kid in the White House was Amy Carter at 9.

Geez, the White House fanfic writes itself.

A First Baby!! I don’t think we’ve ever had one of those, have we? I think they said the youngest kid in the White House was Amy Carter at 9.

We haven’t had one in years, but I think Jackie Kennedy was the last First Lady to be pregnant in the White House.  (Unfortunately, the baby was born prematurely and did not survive.)  And both Caroline and John Jr. were very young—she was only about 3 and he was born in November of 1960.

ah you liberals..always seeing things in terms of race, skin color. It’s like if anybody diagrees with Michelle Obama it’s racism. Like we cannot disagree with her ‘for the first time i’m proud of my country’ or her letter in support of partial birth abortion.

there’s a certain arrogance, sense of entitlement to Michelle Obama, she is not a likable person, that’s why the campaign had to reel her in and keep her under wraps. They were afraid she might express her true feelings about America, and they didn’t want to risk it.

she is not a likable person, that’s why the campaign had to reel her in and keep her under wraps.

Do you know her personally?  I know somebody who does and he simply adores her and says nothing but positive things about working with her.

I agree the victory night dress didn’t work for me. The red and black sections looked black-widow-spider-ish for me, and it didn’t flatter her figure.

That said, Michelle Obama is a gorgeous woman and she dresses beautifully 99% of the time. She became a style icon when she showed up on The View looking so smart in that black and white dress. And the girls are stunning. It’s going to be fun to watch the First Family!

That’s true, his girls are adorable. The only thing I like about Obama, he makes cute kids.

No one is wondering if it sends the wrong message to be interested in a male politician’s interest in sports.

Um, yes we are. But probably not the punditry.

there’s a certain arrogance, sense of entitlement to Michelle Obama, she is not a likable person, that’s why the campaign had to reel her in and keep her under wraps.

Notta worry, Larry…...maybe she’ll have the “First Abortion” just to make the entire first four years of the administration exciting for you.

I have to say I like women who are comfortable going without makeup anyway…

Well. I’m a male who tries really hard to avoid the demonizing of the female, and yet I still hate the culture of fashion.  I also utterly loathe the culture of sports.  I don’t give a flying fuck about what team did better than their opposing team at putting some goddamn ball somewhere, and have a very hard time not hating people, mostly male, who do.  I follow many progressive blogs and am continually caught up short when, I dunno, the Sadlynaughts or the Poor Man suddenly reveal that this stuff matters to them.  I immediately think, wait, I thought you people were bright!  What THE FUCK are you doing giving this bullshit a moment’s thought?

I’m also 6’6,” which as you may be able to imagine attracts a lot of comments from strangers about how much I must be into basketball.  I won’t bore you with the many ways I try to demoralize people, mostly male, who approach me out of nowhere with their certainty that I share their warped values about these weird claques of developmentally stunted freaks who convince themselves and otherwise bright people that something hinges on their ability to put some goddamned ball in an area defended by other morons. That sizeable percentages of the population seem to give a fair amount of thought to this shit just convinces me that there is something very wrong with the human species, mostly though alas not exclusively the male part.  I DO think it sends the wrong message to be interested in a male politician’s interest in sports, though I have no illusions about this fuckwittery ending anytime soon.  It is often remarked upon that polls show atheists are the least likely subgroup ever to have one of their own elected president.  I think this is just because it’s never even occurred to pollsters to ask how you’d feel about a candidate who was admittedly uninterested in sports.

But I also hate fashion and the fashion industry.  I hate their propagandizing to the effect that there is a single female type that is attractive to men.  I think the pornography industry is, in comparison, a model of inclusivity.  This isn’t to say I don’t think it’s nice for both women and men to make themselves look good.  I just give no quarter at all to the industry whose main objective is to convince you and me that if we’re not freaks of nature, we look like shit.

Wow, now THERE’s a guy who doesn’t watch Project Runway!  (Yay, Leanne! You deserved that win!)

++++
First Children:  “John John” Kennedy was very young when he was in the White House.  My recollection of the pix of him saluting his father’s caisson would make him four or five.  But a second wiki’ing would solve this.

In looking for my URL above, I had to surf over to Project RunGAY, and wouldn’t you know it, they had a “Page Two” article on Michelle’s victory dress.  I’m happy to say their opinion matched mine, but EVER so much catty-er!:

http://projectrungaypagetwo.blogspot.com/2008/11/michelle-make-us-your-gays.html

Agree with Forked Tongue on the whole, but I don’t look down on the athletes. Sure, they’re overpaid, but if someone gave you that kind of money to do something you liked and were good at and made you famous, you’d be a first-class idiot not to take it. Same for the owners, they’re in it to make money. It’s the fans that I can’t abide.

I’m a little hostile to the automatic dismissal that fashion gets as shamefully lightweight, because it seems to me that it’s more demonizing of the feminine.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. I think it’s unfair to the concept of fashion in general that it often gets conflated with the pop culture discourse surrounding the worst parts of the fashion industry. Both the concept of fashion and the fashion industry would be well served if a firmer distinction could be established between couture and runway fashion on the one hand, and the stylish and flattering yet quotidian clothes that regular people actually wear on the other. On the gripping hand, most people never develop a sophisticated sense of style or a real working knowledge of the ins and outs of the clothing industry. I think that to a lot of people, where their clothes come from is just as mysterious as how their processed foods and TV shows are made, or anything else that people tend take for granted and don’t really think about.

As I’ve said before, I think that the more feminism penetrates the public consciousness, we’re going to see women give up a lot of habits that are just time-consuming and/or uncomfortable, but we’ll see men pick up more.

No kidding. I’ve always wanted to be one of those guys who looked utterly fabulous every single day or who could improvise some dashing outfit out of the closet at the last second, if need be. I’m not for reasons that have more to do with a lack of money, time and effort than the fear of any kind of potential social censure, but I still secretly fantasize about being ambushed by the What Not to Wear crew. Five grand, a trip to New York, some great fashion advice, and a whole new wardrobe? Sign me up, please.

On the topic of Michelle Obama’s dress, it didn’t even occur to me to think much about it one way or the other until I saw this post, because I’m more interested in the person in the dress than in the dress itself. But now that I have thought about it, I’m disappointed that much of the criticism aimed at her has bought into the fashion industry’s alleged assertion that all women are required to be size 0 and have no waist whatsoever. Like Verena von Pfetten over at HuffPo, I think much of the criticism is a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that Obama doesn’t wear the same old boring-ass solid-color power suits or pantsuits that every First Lady since the ‘50s has worn as a veritable uniform. Not boring != not flattering.

I liked the structure of the dress, as well as the combined structure of the dress and the cardigan. I liked the criss-cross waistband, and I really don’t understand how anyone could possibly get “ZOMG SPIDER WEB HOOKER!!!” out of that. I liked the color-play with the girls’ dresses (who both looked cute as all get-out). I liked the combination of demure cut and bold colors, which are a marked contrast from the blocky cuts and soft pastels that Laura Bush and Hillary Clinton spent most of their time wearing (and don’t get me started on Barbara Bush). I liked that the color-gradient made her look tall and statuesque without being imposing or mannish. All in all, I thought it was a great dress.

Dan, I hardly think Jackie Kennedy could be accused of “the same old boring-ass solid-color power suits or pantsuits that every First Lady since the ‘50s has worn as a veritable uniform.”

Hey, YOU said the 50’s, not me.

(It just occurred to me: we now have a First Lady we won’t cringe about when she stands next to Carla Bruni.)

We mourn that women feel they have to dress up all the time

No, what I mourn is knowing what regardless of how Michelle Obama would *like* to wear her hair, or how she would like to style her daughters’ hair, being a professional and a political wife, she more or less HAS to process it straight.

I know Pam’s blogged about the politics of hair before, and as “auntie” to a pair of mixed-race girls, I’m very aware right now of the pressure to have straight, glossy hair.

That said, I admire her taste and style. The victory night dress is growing on me - it really needed a curvy figure like hers. I certainly couldn’t pull it off.

Well damn me to hell, ‘cause I agree.

I hate the frequent conflation of “stylish” with “dumbass.” There are multiple reasons why someone may or may not be into fashion.

As someone who has to spend a lot of time in very male-dominated, even conservative environments, I’ve noticed that my style gets more feminine and more defined as time goes on. There’s a real sense of wanting to look *very* different from the men. In a room full of dark suits, I find myself wearing a bright pink oxford and a tailored skirt. I’ve even changed my perfume to something with a hint of rose in it, and I think it smells great, whereas before rose was something that didn’t go with me at all.

Not all women are into this, but I think for some of us, visually defining ourselves as feminine, wearing bright colours, taking chances, can be helpful in navigating a traditionally male space (such as politics or business or whatever). Not necessarily in how others relate to us, but in how we relate to ourselves.

And while I’m at it, I hope to live to see the day when more men wear eyeliner.

i don’t care about navigating male space…male space? wtf is that?  a men’s restroom?  ‘cos otherwise it’s my space, too.  i’m human first.  i can go an entire year without putting on make up.  i just don’t care.  why shouldn’t i have the same freedom of doing the bare basics to get ready that men have?  and yes, it took me years to shed the insecurity of not being “female” enough.  but, i did, for the most part - i still have my days.  i’d suggest to all women trying the same - try being a human being first.  that’s it.  be a person.  white male IS NOT THE DEFAULT PERSON, regardless of the eternity of literature, movies, media, etc. that’s made it seem so. 
i know it won’t happen in my lifetime, i know it won’t - but, god, what i wouldn’t give to see women just be people.  “f” the clothes, “f” the shoes, “f” the makeup, “f” the cup size, “f” the waist size, “f” the removing hair from our bodies that grows there naturally, etc. etc. etc. etc.
*sigh* i suppose this comment is futile, anyway.  i’ve noticed the ipod generation isn’t much better with their gender roles than my generation x was/is.

On the hair straightening topic, it’s not just women of color, I’ve noticed.

On the rare occasion when I watch Dr. Phil (I know! but occasionally there is a good train wreck) I’ve noticed that the women in their premade videos have wonderfully curly hair (I might be biased.  My hair is curly) but once they get on stage, their hair is flattened right out.

It’s not just Dr. Phil.  I have noticed this phenomena on practically every television show.  Now, being a curly-haired girl, I know the guilty pleasure you get out of having the stylist blow your hair straight so you don’t have to wash and style it for a day or two.  But I can’t imagine that every time a woman goes on TV and has a chance to have a stylist do her hair, all of said women choose to have it blown straight.  I would take the opportunity to have someone style me curly so I could maybe get some new ideas. 

Is it just me?  Really.  I don’t think it’s just a race thing here.  For some reason, curly hair is taboo.  Or something.

Over one Newsweek, before the election, Tim Gunn did a slideshow-and-audio-track of an examination of what the presidential candidates, their veeps-to-be, and wives wore.  The man used the word “semoitics” twice, for those of you who think that fashion can’t be analyzed metatextually like books and tv shows.

It’s quite fabulous, IMO, though he might have cut Palin a little slack by choosing a different outfit.  Though, given the t-shirts she took to wearing after the clothes fiasco became known, probably not.  The Tim is not fond of the t-shirt in most places.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/166200  Beware; the audio will start immediately, and there is no accompanying text.  My apologies, hearing-impaired Pandagonians!

Don’t worry, Dana.  With all the spam bots around, no one will notice.

‘i don’t care about navigating male space…male space? wtf is that?  a men’s restroom?”

Well, I live in the Middle East and travel regularly home to Ukraine, and you can bet your behind that there are spaces here that are traditionally defined as male. I’ve been to conferences with no female speakers and hardly any female attendees, where I have found myself the only woman in the room (and getting hit on on top of that), I regularly attend meetings where I am the only woman (and people notice that shit, it’s not something they’ll just gloss over), and whether I like it or not, my gender is up for discussion virtually everywhere I go, professionally and socially. Sometimes it’s easy, sometimes it can be a pain.

There are many places in the States where it’s the same. Many careers that still take you into a “boys’ club.” Many social situations too.

So perhaps while you can afford not to care, I don’t have that luxury. I am treated differently from the get-go, and make do with that.

“i can go an entire year without putting on make up.”

I think if you want to, you should be able to go the rest of your life without wearing make-up, if you so choose. I support you in your decision.

But I personally really like make-up. I think it’s hot. I wish more men wore it. Notice I’m not trying to define your experience with it as anything I personally should have any say-so over. I’m not giving YOU, or any other woman or man advice. It’s none of my business, what are people are into or are not into.

It doesn’t mean I view myself as less than human either.

Speedbudget, no, it’s not entirely a racial thing. White girls with curly hair (like me) are encouraged to straighten it, too. It’s extremely hard to find a hairdresser who knows how to cut and style curly hair - in my lifetime, most of the people who have ever cut my hair have done so as if they expect me to wear it straight instead of paying attention to how my curls fall when they snip.

However, consider this: where does our curly hair come from? Curly hair, as a genetic trait, tends to come from genetic populations which are or have been considered “inferior” at some point in history. Straight hair is very “anglo-saxon”, and it’s entirely possible that our cultural antipathy to curly hair has evolved out of racism against groups that are NOW considered “white”, but for whom this has not been true for all of our country’s history.

Michelle Obama, she is not a likable person, that’s why the campaign had to reel her in and keep her under wraps.

Being on The View is being kept under wraps? Um, no.

Now, Cindy McCain, I don’t recall seeing her around much. Most of the photo ops I saw her in, she looked stiff and unnatural.

In a room full of dark suits, I find myself wearing a bright pink oxford and a tailored skirt.

I think this shows how far we’ve come both politically and sartorially, and how much things have changed.

Because before 60’s/70’s feminism, a pink button-down shirt and a tailored skirt would NOT have been seen as a “feminine” look.  To pass as female, you needed a dress, heels, hose, gloves, and hat, with the proper foundation garments underneath.  A blouse and skirt might have been OK, if not especially femme, but the blouse needed to have a shmoopy baby femininity to it (peter pan collar, puffed sleeves, ruffles and/or bows in evidence) and the skirt should ideally be full.  And god forbid it be “tailored” or menswear-inspired!

Oh, and to weigh in on the dress, I like the dress itself, and think it looks great on Obama, but don’t think it was the right choice for that particular event.  It seems like it’s much better seen up close, to get the idea of the red detailing and the wrapped waist—in footage from the acceptance speech, it was hard to gauge.  Though I loved the whole idea of what she was going for, or really of what she and the girls together were going for.  I kind of wondered if the dress wasn’t chosen because it met various criteria (black and red to go with the girls, classic sheath shape with a nipped in waist and pencil skirt, designer rather than off the rack and needs to be a young hip well-known designer who is still very classy…) rather than because it was The Perfect Thing To Wear.  It would have been a knockout in a more intimate setting, though.

Can I just say I am on pins and needles wondering what she’ll wear to the inauguration?

Geepers, the spambots are totally out of control today ... and they have DANA now too!

Yikes, seems the economy in the toilet means more spam-at-home schemes ...

I find the whole hair-straightening thing for white people to be hilarious.  In the Midwest in the 70s and 80s, the pressure to get a perm was huge (I have a picture of my husband’s family where they all have perms!).  And, despite my dad’s Jew-fro, I got my mom’s superstraight Anglo hair and was thus sentenced to the curling iron to be even vaguely acceptable. 

I suppose I should feel all fashionable now, but I’m a geekish slob and going gray.  I still do a double-take, though, when someone says “Oh, your hair is so *straight*” as a compliment rather than an insult!

“victory dress didn’t really work as well as most of her clothes”

wtf? dresses don’t “work”.

And while I’m at it, I hope to live to see the day when more men wear eyeliner.

What Natalia said.

HyperIon, come back when you’ve mastered vernacular English.  >|^P

I wear mascara and a Ghillie suit.

Ewan McGregor rocks that eyeliner. Eddie Izzard too (and heels, and lots of other things). Et cetera. :D

My spam filter hurts.

While I realize that Michelle Obama is much more than merely a fashion plate -
Think of all the kids out there who can watch her, take their fashion cues from her -
and NOT have to try and deform themselves into a mold they can never fit!

Fashion is a loaded word, with connotations of exclusionary haute couture, or arbitary rules a la Glamour’s Do’s and Don’ts. I think adornment is a better term. It has an anthropological cachet, and includes body mods.

Dana, when we think men in eye-liner, it’s more Johnny Depp than Michael Jackson. Hey, I put on eye-liner every day without blinding myself, and I’m a complete spaz!

So… is anyone still reading this thread?

Like it or not, presence—the ability to command respectful attention—is an important quality for anyone in the public eye, especially presidents and their spouses. This is why I got exasperated with all those online quizzes that kept telling me Dennis Kucinich was my ideal candidate. You need presence, gravitas, to be president, and Kucinich ain’t got it.

Michelle Obama is an extremely attractive woman who dresses well. That contributes strongly to her presence (although by no means accounting for all of it).  So much the better. If some people get obsessed by her appearance or refuse to consider her on any other terms, that’s on them, not Mrs. Obama.

Wow, the spambots are like mosquitoes tonight…

damn straight, Amanda.  Since when is looking good in the right dress NOT just another facet of the completeness of a “multifaceted woman like Michelle Obama”?  Its just there, not to be an exclusive focus nor to be suppressed from awareness or report.

I liked the dress and have been surprised at all the negative reaction. I thought it was both dignified and celebratory—something appropriate for a once-in-a-lifetime event.  (And don’t forget that they were in mourning for the President-elect’s grandmother.)  And I thought it was cute that it was red, rather than blue. And the family looked great together.

(prescript: I didn’t read all the comments so if I’m repeating, sorry)

I agree that the focus on fashion reduces a woman to decoration, but it should be noted that it’s still a bit progressive to put forth a black woman as fashionable, as someone a little white girl might want to grow up to be/look/dress like.

So there’s your silver lining.