Call me crazy, but given that there is a finite amount of oil shouldn’t we be SAVING one of the last, large untapped reserves in the US for the future?  Why are they so bent on spending it NOW, NOW, NOW?  We may need it more in 50 or 100 years.  It’s not like it’s going anywhere.  Maybe in 50 years we’ll not only be able to use it more effectively using devices with higher fuel efficiency, but we might also be able to extract if more safely without harming the environment.  What’s their damn rush?  Even if they started work today it’ll be years before it hits the market so it’s NOT a short-term solution in any case.

I swear, the RW is like a spoiled child screaming by a cookie jar that they want the cookie NOW, even if it will spoil their dinner.

OK, so we have $X billion floating around for investment in things to do; let’s allocate it to activities that do nothing whatsoever to solve our longterm problems (and instead, by perpetuating the notion that the status quo is OK, ultimately make things worse). And that’s before the environmental effects, which include, remember, losing pretty much all the ports in the world.

I love how “I want my candy now and I don’t care if there isn’t any later” is considered growing up, while saving for the future is considered chldish.

Let’s not forget that the “I want my candy now” folks are the ones profiting from drilling the oil now or are friends with the rich folk who do.  Investing in new technology or saving oil for better uses than driving cars doesn’t make OilMen(tm) any richer, so shut up and grow up. 

It’s all about making the rich richer, dammit.  That’s the true American way.  We’re really just a generation away from landed gentry, and that’s the true divine right.

And, no, windmills won’t charge cars, but solar panel “trees” at parking lots might.  Well, if we can figure out how to meter the energy so people can profit it from it.

Caren, I’m not sure you’re right about that. A lot of people in the “candy now” camp are just deluded. They’ve been fed so many lies and conspiracy theories that they truly think it’s a good idea. The oil companies have been investing in solar and wind for 30 years now, and they’d make out just fine in a transition.

Wait - a WSJ editorial that has its tongue firmly up the ass of Big Oil? HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN?!?!

My brain hurts. I thought that another problem with tearing up fragile ecosystems for oil was that there wasn’t really _that much oil_ to get, at least on the “global daily usage” scale. Is that wrong now, and have I been brainwashed by the “liburels”?

Seriously, what the hell happened to American industry that we decided that ossifying and being unable to come up with a new business plan was a good way to run things?  There’s a reason that Japanese car manufacturers vaulted over the US in quality despite having a workforce about 1/5th the size of the US, and it wasn’t because of quotas or any other bullshit reason the righties give for getting lazy.

An established industry is almost incapable of thinking outside its old framework. Both it and its customers want more and better of the same, not something different. Read Christensen’s The Innovator’s Dilemma if you want some spectacular illustrations. The oil companies are acting just as anyone could have predicted they would.

My primary objection is that this is a mechanism to transfer public resources to private concerns at low cost.  It’s got the same motivations as those behind the “wise use” groups who want to open public lands or loosen environmental restrictions.  My response to such arguments is, why should I listen to the arguments of freeloaders and squatters who want to use MY land?  Yeah, I could make money if I could rent out my neighbor’s house, and I could provide some marginal overall benefit to the community through my increased income taxes, I guess, and it would provide value to the people to whom I rented the house.

But it’s MY NEIGHBOR’S HOUSE, not MY HOUSE.

“...you won’t be able to charge your car with a windmill for some time, if ever.”

Actually, this is quite possible, today.

Airplanes will never fly on woodchips, and you won’t be able to charge your car with a windmill for some time, if ever.

Can so!

Fully Electric Tesla Roadster.  Electricity-generating windmills.  Use B to charge A.

(Yes, that’s expensive, on both counts, but it is certainly doable.  And how much does an oil-drilling rig cost?)

I swear, the RW is like a spoiled child screaming by a cookie jar that they want the cookie NOW, even if it will spoil their dinner.

More than that, it’s like a spoiled child wanting to eat all the emergency supplies, or their storage for winter—-and not only their own, but everybody else’s as well.

The grown up thing is funny. Because generally everyone I know that changes political leanings later in life almost always goes leftward. Its easy to blabber on about the wonders of the free market when your parents pay for everything and you think you’re going to be the next Bill Gates. When you get out in the real world, not so much.

If we put even half the money we put into drilling for an ever shrinking supply of oil into alternative energy and hybrid cars, we’d be on our way to energy independence.

The oil-rich areas they want to leave untouched are accessible with minimal environmental disturbance, thanks to modern technology. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita flattened terminals across the Gulf of Mexico but didn’t cause a single oil spill.

A non-sequitur if I ever heard one.

Tom Tomorrow actually covered this long before the current oil price spike:

http://dir.salon.com/story/comics/tomo/2002/04/08/tomo/index.html

I love how conservatives forget about the free market policies they push when they argue about energy. Oil is a globally traded commodity, by drilling in sensitive areas and adding maybe .25% to the world oil production you are not influencing prices, you are simply providing more oil to be sold by those who get the contracts for pumping. So we open ANWR to drilling, so that Exxon can sell the oil—at market rate—to China or Japan. How does this solve anything? Conversely, increasing CAFE standards and requiring greater efficiency in buildings and appliances could easily save some 25%-30% of imported oil. But wait, that’s not the ‘Free Market’—which says we need to sacrifice our country’s entire economy for shareholders and corporate profit margins.  Arrrrrrrrrrrrrr

http://sapphireenergy.com/product

Just sayin.

Charging car with electricity:

Toyota will start selling plug-in hybrid starting next year. The first.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4227944.html

Asakura said the prototypes can operate on electric power for a range of about 7 miles and can re-charge in three to four hours using a 110-vlot outlet. Under the hood is the current Prius’s 1.5-liter inline four. The electric motor generates 50kW, which combined with the more powerful pack, allows the Prius prototype to reach 62 mph on electric-only power. Current cars can only hit about 25 mph before the gasoline engine cuts in.

Our drive in the prototype PHEV was brief, only four laps of a small course setup inside the test facility. But it was impressive. The hybrid system has an “EV” mode and a more conventional “hybrid” mode. In EV mode the vehicle can run on electric power longer and with a more aggressive throttle input than in the hybrid mode. With an eye on the energy flow meter (basically a reprogrammed and updated version of what’s in the Prius now) we were able to accelerate up to approximately 50 mph and keep the car in electric mode all the way around the track. Like many owners do in the current Prius, we found ourselves playing the efficiency game of trying to keep the car in electric mode as long as possible. After two back-to-back laps, the monitor said we still had around 6 kilometers of battery life remaining. The most impressive part of the system was that it can take 1/4 to 1/2 throttle without engaging the gasoline engine. And that means for short 3 to 4 mile commutes, one could conceivably get to work and return home solely on electric power. The hybrid mode works much like the current car, engaging the internal combustion engine much sooner. This mode, it is presumed will be most applicable to long trips, when charging the battery isn’t an option.

The next generation Prius, due around calendar year 2009, will almost certainly use a plug-in system. The car may launch as a normal hybrid and later, once the lithium ion battery technology is ready, switch to plug-in capability. Or, it may be a plug-in from the beginning using a large NiMh pack and switch to lithium ion later. We think the latter may be true because we’ve heard rumors that the vehicle architecture is being designed for both battery types.

What good does it do the environment if you plug in your hybrid to a coal or oil fired power plant, though?

I asked a question at a dinner the other night: “What is the Energy Policy of the United States?”.
No one had a clue what is was, or where to find out. These were educated people, mostly PhD level in fields like marine biology, genetics, mathematics, and computer science. What does a randomly selected high school graduate working at Home Depot as a clerk think it is?
There appears to be a terrible lack of leadership in our government, in our corporations, in our educational system, and elsewhere with respect to such an important topic. The default position is the current expression of global capitalism, and that doesn’t fill me with much joy! Our government appears to hope that some great discovery will appear just in time to allow us to pursue the same course. The question is will the lights go out befor the climate change gets us, or the other way around? Looking for some hopeful sign…

http://sapphireenergy.com/product

Just sayin.

That. Is. So. Fucking. Awesome.  I think I just died and went to heaven.

A lot of people in the “candy now” camp are just deluded. They’ve been fed so many lies and conspiracy theories that they truly think it’s a good idea.

paul - Plus, they figure that, since this is the way it’s always been during their lifetimes, it’s just unfair to make them change.

And they claim to be the mature ones? “Mature,” my ass—it’s part of that ubiquitous phenomenon among the Right: growing old without growing up.

These people have no concept of responsibility beyond the word itself—a primo example being the WSJ‘s support of this administration’s energy policy, which over the last 7.4 years has consisted completely, utterly and entirely of “Hey, let’s make the existing energy companies really, really rich!!”

Gods-dammit, why are we still looking to burn petroleum as fuel???  Don’t these idiots realize that we need this stuff to make plastic with?!?!?!  I, for one, am very fond of my plastic glasses…and toys…and car parts…and medical supplies…and packaging…and so on and so forth.

With a limited supply and no real way to make plastics without oil, how come it doesn’t make sense to STOP BURNING THE SHIT UP ALREADY and find a renewable resource for fuel, so we can keep our lovely modern plastics going for many years?  Recycling plastic only goes so far, before some new stuff needs to be added to keep it going. 

Bast, frustrated

Kyra @ 3:55 - It is! Did you click through to the green crude stuff? Seriously, this just makes me so happy. I sent them a mail yesterday asking them when they anticipated bringing product to market.

http://www.greencrudeproduction.com/news.html

I know it’s real, but I truly do not understand the “memory hole” effect.

When I read that excerpt, my immediate reaction was “No! I’m sure I heard about leaks from the Gulf oil rigs.” (and even if not, the Alaska and California oil rig leaks show that technology & maintenance aren’t that good).
I also turned away from the TV news in the run up to the invasion of Iraq. They would unabashedly declare things to be true that conflicted and contradicted stories from a week before. My paper was running some articles from Knight-Ridder, the only news source questioning the White House’s take on things, so I still read the paper.

Why are people so malleable in the brain that they can be told 2 + 2 = 5 and a majority will adjust their bookkeeping accordingly instead of denying it?

Meh. Don’t mean to derail this. I’m just so sick of writers, pundits, etc, changing the facts after events and getting people to accept it. Hell, the hack should be fired for such a false statement.

What good does it do the environment if you plug in your hybrid to a coal or oil fired power plant, though?

Ultimately, some—electricity is far more efficient to generate than automotive locomotion—partially due to scale, partially due to other technical efficiencies. Additionally, electricity generation can be supplemented on the grid by individuals with solar, wind, geo-thermal, etc. This means that the grid can become a deployment system for a variety of alternative generating methods.

Kyra @ 3:55 - It is! Did you click through to the green crude stuff?

This stuff?

“Algae are non-food/feed sources, so there is no inherent conflict of using food crop plants for fuel rather than for food,” say Hu and Sommerfeld. “Also, algae can be grown on land that is unsuitable for agriculture and can use saline or brackish water, making the algae feedstock production system complementary, rather than competitive, to existing agriculture.”

Very complimentary, seeing as there’s those river deltas made all brackish and fucked-up by most of the river being diverted off for agriculture and human consumption before it gets to the ocean.  There, and deserts, and building rooftops in cities perhaps—-this is viable solar power, here.