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Next entry: Adoption under duress: the end game of the anti-choice movement Previous entry: Glenn Beck finds a BFF in tin foil hat preacher who says health care reform = ‘black genocide’

Growing up is overrated

I’m turning 32 today—-I know, half of you are like, “God, she’s older than I thought,” and the other half are like, “Wow, just a baby,” which is why this blog’s audience is so awesome and diverse and love you guys—-but because of this, I thought this post by carr2d2 at Skepchick was appropriate:

I feel like I should be a “grown-up” now, or something, though I’m not even sure what that means, exactly. There’s this idea I had, as a kid, that at some point in my life I’d arrive at adulthood and suddenly be part of the grown-up club. It’s weird. I do pretty much all the things I imagined would make me into a grown-up, but I still don’t feel like one. I’m beginning to think that maybe what I thought defined being grown up was the shedding of uncertainty. Frankly, I’m pretty good with uncertainty. It keeps me honest, grounded, and skeptical. By that definition, I hope I never grow up.

I’m grateful to my mother, who told me often—-at least after she’d processed what had happened, etc.—-about having a minor crisis when she turned 30 and realized that she didn’t know everything.  She had two kids, a husband, a job that was turning professional and stable, a mortgage, a greenhouse, two cats and a dog.  And a cool old car.  But she didn’t know everything, and still felt like the same kid she always was.  The lesson that was imparted on me was clear: Whatever you do, be yourself.  If you try to fit someone else’s mold of what an adult is, looks like, or acts like, you’re going to find that no matter how good you play act the part, you will still feel like a kid who doesn’t know everything. 

Great advice, really, and as carr2d2 notes, giving up the illusion of adulthood gives you a certain ability to be flexible, intelligent, forward-moving, and not calcified.  Which is good for your health, you know.  A lot of the old-fashioned definitions of what made someone an adult leaned towards lowering the amount of stimulation you got in a day, both in terms of moving your body and working your mind.  Which in turn allows both those things to deteriorate faster.  Something to keep in mind.

What’s interesting to me is that this issue—-acting “adult”—-is actually yet another front in the culture war.  It’s not one that gets the same kind of attention that racial equality, feminism, gay rights, or even the fight against American imperialism gets, which makes sense of course, since those issues are more pressing.  But as some folks were noting in a recent “Mad Men” thread, the way that the counterculture movement—-and let’s face it, the Madison Avenue co-option of it worked this way as well, since there’s money in them thar youthful hills—-put its foot down on the demands of adulthood was a huge and immediate shift that was a net benefit for the country.  If you can wear jeans and a T-shirt most of the time, thank the hippies, seriously.  If you can keep your hair the way it is, instead of submit to extensive styling and processing, thank the hippies.  The 60s aesthetic of freedom and casualness was, above all other things, about claiming the right to stick with those childhood things that work, and run around barefoot if you damn well please.  It’s the reason that adults like me can play video games if we want to, acknowledge that the music made for teenagers in the 60s is pretty fucking good stuff, and wear sneakers for everyday shoes.  It’s probably even the reason that we have the cultural space to accept the bicycle as a legitimate form of transportation.

I picked up the book Hypocrite in a Pouffy White Dress at Half Price Books, because I liked the cover and it seemed funny.  But I couldn’t get past the first essay, where Susan Jane Gilman writes resentfully of being a kid of hippies, and watching the adults goof off in childish ways, as if they were impinging on her turf.  I’m sure she was trying to be self-deprecating by chronicling her resentment that way, but it was still so raw and authentic-reading on the page that I found I couldn’t continue.  I could just imagine some wingnut at Townhall grabbing her essay and opining about how it hurts The Children when adults demand the right to be playful, much less other rights like the right to our own private romantic life or (for women) the right to a job or even a career.  Trust me, I don’t usually let what the wingnuts would say hurt a reading experience, but I decided life was short and moved onto a book that didn’t bring up these unpleasant associations.  I can just imagine what some people clinging to the old ways would think just to step inside my house, where the knick-knacks are toys and lunchboxes, and the art is predominantly based around cool-looking records and advertisements for rock shows.  I don’t want any kids, but I’d hope that if I did, I wouldn’t feel any need to change a thing about this.  My happiest memories of childhood were those of my parents being goofy and childlike, or at least adolescent.  Halloween parties where their friends dressed in crazy costumes, rowdy board games, listening to rock music, that sort of thing. 


Of course, the place where the panic attack over people’s increasing freedom to be themselves and to be playful gathers the most steam is when it comes to romance, family, relationships, that sort of thing.  That’s probably because it intersects with the feminist project there the most.  One of the first things I read this morning while fixing my coffee was this post by Samhita about writing her book on dating, and how baffling other dating guides really are, when you think about it. I’ve had a long blog career of making fun of tips on how to attract “men”—-actually, a certain kind of very sexist man—-and the assumption that women are obsessed with getting married ASAP, but I have to admit, that post by Samhita was a reminder of how incredibly weird that entire world seems to me.  It doesn’t make sense to me, for instance, that a woman would want a man who she knows for a fact—-due to the way she “snagged” him by playing the hard to get submissive female (which is sort of a contradiction, but that’s for another post)—-is mired in the belief that women are inferior, that women don’t have a sexuality out of performing for men, and probably other things that are going to cause resentment, such as that women shouldn’t make more than men, women should do all the housework, women should give up their jobs or at least merely work part-time in order to take care of the kids.  Why sign up for that kind of headache and misery?  Why set out to get a man who comes with that baggage?

Well, the writer that Samhita mocks dwells not on what marriage means, but getting that princess-y wedding, and getting it before you’re past some magical date that makes you a spinster.  That seems to be the hope, that a man who buys into all these old-fashioned gender roles is therefore a man who will perform to expectations and produce an engagement ring at exactly a year into dating, and produce a wedding ring at 2 to 2 1/2 years of dating.  If that’s of paramount importance to you, then you’ll find these dating guides compelling.  And they sell a lot of copies, so apparently a lot of women are getting exactly the message that the professional anti-feminist movement is peddling, which is that you should marry young, or you’re a loser and a failure as a woman.  In fact, Samhita sardonically notes that this is exactly the underlying assumption:

I am sure the authors of all of these books would say I am kidding myself, after all, I am 31 and unmarried, but I would much rather hold out for someone that recognizes me as a fully realized human being, rather than a possession that must play inferior and passive to get someone to like me and be with me. Just saying.

The liberation to be youthful seems to have benefited men more than women.  This is hard for me to tease out, because it’s certainly not true in my social circles, where feminist ideals are the norm, but even in super-liberal Austin, you run across a lot of lopsided couples, where the man gets to be a kid and the woman feels like she has to be the grown-up.  Or that’s true at least when I’m running with the people who are into the live music scene here, anyway—-occasionally, you run across the married man whose wife is too busy doing some serious, grown-up stuff to come out to many shows, or she finds the whole thing…..sigh….childish.  Which is everyone’s right, of course, but it’s interesting that it’s so lopsided.  I can’t help but think that the lingering shame about not being a grown-up attaches itself more to women than men.  Certainly I find that no one is surprised that my boyfriend likes to play video games, but I occasionally meet a raised eyebrow when I admit that I like to play some.  Not with my friends, of course, who are largely the sort of people who see men and women as in the project of goofy playfulness together.  But there’s still a sense, when a woman plays, that there’s some work she should be doing. 

So, in my own meandering, slowly caffeinating way, I guess that’s my thoughts on this birthday: It’s a feminist act of rebellion to refuse to grow up.  I don’t mean refusing to pursue your career or have a nice house or refusing to settle down or forcing yourself to go out when you’re tired and want to stay home to watch TV.  Just to not be shamed into releasing those things that make you happy because they’re childish.  You don’t have to turn down the music, or hang up your video game controller, or stop wearing Keds with skirts, if that makes you happy.  For my birthday, I’m having a theme party, not a cocktail party or even a quiet dinner out (which is actually usually my norm).  Why not?  Be goofy; who gives a shit?  I’m not going to start getting expensive, layered haircuts with lots of highlights or stop wearing jeans every day.  You shouldn’t have to become tedious just to prove that you deserve respect.  Just because I got some fancy cookware (like I asked) for my birthday doesn’t mean I’m taking down 70s era cookbook cover I’ve got on my kitchen wall that says “Sex Pots….and Pans”.  I carefully stickered up my Rock Band guitar game controller, and I expect that my opinion on world politics is still valid.  I wear band T-shirts and vintage dresses on occasion.  I’m still a hard worker with decent professional instincts.  And why not?  Being a “grown-up”, instead of just a person who meets responsibilities but doesn’t take herself too seriously, was always overrated.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 09:51 AM • (117) Comments

Happy birthday, Amanda!  smile

Comment #1: Dana  on  09/02  at  11:35 AM

Excellent attitude for winning at the game of life, when winning isn’t defined as “acquire as much shit as possible and fuck everyone else to get there” but rather “do what makes me happy, social norms be damned!”  The world would be more pleasant if more shared this mindset.

Happy B-day.

Comment #2: DTG in STL  on  09/02  at  11:36 AM

Amanda wrote:

But she didn’t know everything, and still felt like the same kid she always was.

That must mean she stopped being a teenager, because they do know everything!

Comment #3: Dana  on  09/02  at  11:37 AM

where the man gets to be a kid and the woman feels like she has to be the grown-up. 

Sounds like an Apatow film.

I think I felt like a grown up when I was 21, married, with a kid on the way and I managed to score a full-time job with bennies in a down economy. Now, almost 20 years later, I don’t feel so grown up anymore, except for the popping knees when I get up from crouching, and I feel a lot better about my life. I spend my days (when I’m not in front of a classroom talking about poetry or writing) in shorts and a t-shirt, barefoot, reading or writing or doing whatever else tickles my fancy. Screw being grown up—I’ve been there.

And a very happy birthday, Amanda. You share it with my daughter, Brittany Spears (not the singer).

Comment #4: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  09/02  at  11:42 AM

I can’t help but be reminded of this XKCD strip.

Comment #5: Ruby  on  09/02  at  11:46 AM

Happy birthday, Amanda. And I agree that there’s no reason to stop being fun just because you get older. As long as one stops vomiting on oneself when drunk, because that stops being cute after 19 or so.

Comment #6: junk science  on  09/02  at  11:47 AM

First, happy birthday!

I agree 100% with you.  I am very much still a kid, though I’m a few years older than you.  I have been playing the hell out my 360 since I bought it, and I still buy comics.  But my wife and I share the chores, to an extent—I go to work, she does not.  I cook dinner nightly, she loads the dishwasher, I unload it.  She usually does the laundry, though if she doesn’t and I need something, I’ll do it.  I ran the network through our house and installed a 24 HDTV with netflix in the bathroom so she can watch TV while in the tub, and she put the new TX license plates on the car a few nights ago.  We’ve never felt that it should require scorekeeping, and I think that very attitude keeps the scorekeeping away, if that makes any sense.

As far as growing up, in general, I have always enjoyed a rather cliche saying, “You don’t stop playing games because you grow old.  You grow old because you stop playing games”.

Comment #7: MrPendent  on  09/02  at  11:53 AM

Happy 32nd, Amanda!

Comment #8: Falconer  on  09/02  at  11:54 AM

Happy birthday!

I’m not sure there’s a transition to adulthood any more, but there probably is one to middle age: when you realize that you’re not going to be doing the things there was always going to be time to do. But even that doesn’t mean you stop having fun.

Comment #9: paul  on  09/02  at  11:55 AM

Amen, Amanda…and happy birthday.  I always appreciate your witty and spot-on analysis of current events, pop culture, and social issues.  As someone who will never truly “grow up”, your piece resonated with me and my current group of friends.  We’ve had the luxury of extending our young adulthood/life with no responsibilities through grad school and professional pursuits and as a result, have been allowed to, and demanded the time and space, to better figure out who we are, what our individual values are, and what we want out of life.  Delaying or forgoing the “settling down/settling for” stage has been a blessing!

Comment #10: Kaija  on  09/02  at  11:57 AM

Happy birthday!

I’m almost a decade older than you, and I still don’t know what I want to do when I grow up.  I do feel more grown up since having had kids, but that’s just b/c it puts me in with a different set of people and responsibilities AND puts me around some seriously YOUNG people.  But my inner view of myself?  Hasn’t changed.

According to my mom, it never does.  No matter how old you get, you’re still YOU on the inside.  So why adopt stultifying and onerous traditions just to appear “grown up” to others?

At my 5 year high school reunion, most of my friends and I had scattered across the states or Europe and none of us were even dating the people we ended up marrying.  I remember being amazed talking to aclassmate who still lived in town, was a nurse, and had had twins.

She was 10 years “older” than we were.  And we very much did not want to be her (nothing wrong with her or her choices, but at 22-23 we were having far too much fun and trouble taking care of ourselves).

Now those who stayed behind have children in high school and even college.  They’re still a decade “ahead” of me, but it’s really kind of like a video game.  They just bought the game when it first came out and have levelled up, while my friends and I are recent afficiandos and are still in the early levels of “RaisingKidz”.  Maturity-wise, it doesn’t really make a difference at all. 

Having kids doesn’t make you responsible, it just gives you responsibilities. 

And considering Lynn Jenkins’s remark the other day about a single mom needed “to grow up” and buy insurance, the entire phrase “grown up” doesn’t quite mean what it used to.  Apparently, for a lot of people it means being selfish assholes who demand to have the government endorse their personal beliefs or else.  Plus, I have mine, so fuck all y’all.

Sounds more like my toddler’s temper tantrums than mature, adult behavior.

As for you?  You believe that women are human beings.  Men, too, for that matter.  Being a woman, it’s a bit easier for you to figure out, but you fight for equality and human rights, despite the shit that gets thrown at you for bucking the system.  Sounds rather courageous and grown up to me.  What would giving up concerts or video games add to that?

Have a very happy, goofy birthday.

Comment #11: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  09/02  at  12:03 PM

Happy birthday!

Comment #12: preying mantis  on  09/02  at  12:04 PM

I meant it’s a bit easier for you to figure out women are human beings being both female and human.  Doesn’t quite seem to read that way now.

Comment #13: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  09/02  at  12:05 PM

Happy Birthday!

I remember having the opposite feeling. As a teen, I couldn’t wait until my chronology caught up to how grown up I felt. I remember the sensation of toe-curling delight when 18 and then college graduation rolled around, when I knew, knew that my life was finally my own to make of it whatever I would.

I’ve never longed for youth back. I was happy to be rid of it. The real fun started when I became a grownup. And it keeps getting better and funner, despite increasingly creaky knees.

Comment #14: benvolio  on  09/02  at  12:08 PM

Lisa: Bart, my birthday’s in two days. I’m going to be eight years old. It’s a big number, almost double digits.

Bart: Well, enjoy it while you can.  Everything changes when you hit the big 1-0. Your legs start to go, candy doesn’t taste as good any more…

Lisa: Bart, will you please let me pour my little heart out?

Bart: Sorry, this old-timer does ramble on sometimes, don’t he.

Comment #15: norbizness  on  09/02  at  12:13 PM

Happy B’Day, Amanda!

Hope you have enough fun for all the readers! smile

Comment #16: Andy, Oligarch of Okonomiyaki  on  09/02  at  12:14 PM

at some point in my life I’d arrive at adulthood and suddenly be part of the grown-up club. It’s weird. I do pretty much all the things I imagined would make me into a grown-up, but I still don’t feel like one. I’m beginning to think that maybe what I thought defined being grown up was the shedding of uncertainty.

Indeed. I’m 36, and there has long been the growing realization that I have aged (sadly), but not “grown up”. At least, not by my parent’s (or their generation’s) standards. I have what I should probably think of as a “career” at this point, a house with my girlfriend, a car, cats, dogs, bills, etc.: all the trappings of adulthood. And yet it has become increasingly clear that “growing up” means “conforming”.

According to my parents, despite having been together for 18 years, my girlfriend and I are just “playing house” because we haven’t “started acting like grown ups and gotten married”. My girlfriend’s mother badgers her about being “a selfish, self-centered child” because she hasn’t done the grown-up thing and had children of her own. I have also learned that “no one will ever take me seriously” because I have a mohawk (in high school and college, it was because I had long hair). Even voting Democratic is for naive, idealistic youth. Real adults vote Republican.

There was always a cult of certainty to adults when I was little. They at least wanted me to believe that they had all the answers and that everything would be fine if we just did things their way. It never was, of course, but they seemed to interpret that to mean we just weren’t trying hard enough (another Republican/Christian belief). I gave up on all that as soon as I could move away from home, but it’s surprising to find that somewhere in the back of my mind,  I half expected there to be a moment or event where I went “Aha! I’m an adult now. Now I know.”

Comment #17: Egnu Cledge  on  09/02  at  12:19 PM

I personally don’t define adulthood by what a person likes to do with their spare time or what clothes they like to wear.  To me, being an adult means knowing how to take care of yourself and any people you’ve committed to caring for (children, partners, elderly relatives).  It also means abandoning the petty and judgmental attitude that characterizes the teen years, especially the pecking order in high school.  Whenever I hear of people going to shows when their spouse is at home taking care of a sick child or whenever I see adults containing themselves to insular groups and very obviously judging, shunning, and shitting on anyone who doesn’t fit into that group*, I conclude that they haven’t grown up.

*And I’d say this applies more to fundamentalist Christians than hipsters.

Comment #18: keshmeshi  on  09/02  at  12:21 PM

I’m beginning to think that maybe what I thought defined being grown up was the shedding of uncertainty.

If there’s one thing that defines adulthood for me, it’s learning to live with uncertainty.

Happy birthday!

Comment #19: Dunc  on  09/02  at  12:27 PM

I collect children’s tv shows from the past three decades, fully half of which are just as good as I remembered them.  Being a grown up doesn’t hold a candle to Fraggle Rock.

Happy Birthday!

Comment #20: Godless Heathen  on  09/02  at  12:31 PM

Happy birthday.

I think part of that whole “grown-up” thing is pressure/jealousy from the adults who have kids. Seriously. I have little time for fun stuff of my own anymore. With two kids and my wife’s ambitions, we don’t get to play very often.

But we still make time… we’ll let the house be a mess for a while so we can go play D&D;with our friends or have a night of board games or Rock Band. I can understand how other parents might not make that time for themselves to play in order to be perfect parents or something. And that could, in turn, lead to some jealousy of those who are the same age (such as yourself… my birthday is back in February, though) who don’t have children and thus <b>do</i> have time for more fun stuff. I mean, if I want to go to a concert, it takes a lot more planning and money, which I have little of.

I don’t usually feel jealous, so it’s largely supposition on my part. But that might be at least part of what causes this stuff.

Comment #21: Matthew, Patron Saint of Affogato  on  09/02  at  12:31 PM

First, happy birthday!

I haven’t read the essay you’re talking about, but this baffled me: “But I couldn’t get past the first essay, where Susan Jane Gilman writes resentfully of being a kid of hippies, and watching the adults goof off in childish ways, as if they were impinging on her turf. “

I think you may be projecting some of your resentment about messages to Grow Up and Act Your Age onto Gilman here. Adults can certainly be playful, but when you have kids, you know, you’re also supposed to be the adult, for fuck’s sake. Not your kids’ friend, not somebody who absolutely fails to model maturity because, dude, whoa, that’s totally harshing my mellow to pay the bills and shit, you know?

Comment #22: mythago  on  09/02  at  12:33 PM

I personally don’t define adulthood by what a person likes to do with their spare time or what clothes they like to wear.  To me, being an adult means knowing how to take care of yourself and any people you’ve committed to caring for (children, partners, elderly relatives).  It also means abandoning the petty and judgmental attitude that characterizes the teen years, especially the pecking order in high school.  Whenever I hear of people going to shows when their spouse is at home taking care of a sick child or whenever I see adults containing themselves to insular groups and very obviously judging, shunning, and shitting on anyone who doesn’t fit into that group*, I conclude that they haven’t grown up.

I couldn’t agree more with this (positive) definition of growing up. Which isn’t to say it’s the only definition, but it’s certainly the one I strive for - growing up means acting in a sensible, respectful way towards other people, meeting your obligations to people you care about, and having an open mind. It doesn’t involve adopting a bunch of values that your parents happened to embrace (indeed, if anyone were to adopt all of the parents’ values unquestioningly, I’d think that was pretty childish). It certainly doesn’t mean I can’t play starcraft or go out to shows till 3 am occasionally.

Comment #23: HonestB  on  09/02  at  12:43 PM

Happy Birthday Amanda, and congratulations on another year of really fine, detailed, thought provoking posts.  I’m heading into a big birthday—49—and it makes me reflect a bit on where I was in my twenties. I don’t think the grownup/not grownup distinction was clear to me in the way you phrase it. But I do think that I thought that there was something, a fixed point, up ahead, that would answer some of my questions: who will I marry, when will I have children, will I get a really good book out of my dissertation, will I get tenure. After all those things I thought I’d know “how the story comes out.” And to a certain extent, time being what it is, I do feel more settled because I now know the answer to a few of those questions: this guy, this marriage, this life, these children—not that book, not tenure, not that job.  The limitless possibilities of our youth—shall I be a tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor? narrow down to a more predictable set of actualities. And that is, for better or worse, adulthood. But it doesn’t have to go hand in hand with seriousness and lack of fun. Goddesses and demons willing.

aimai

Comment #24: aimai  on  09/02  at  12:46 PM

A show tune for your birthday, from the Musical Peter Pan( I had a small role opposite Mother Avenger a full decade before you were born, Amanda grin

PETER PAN:
Are you ready for today’s lesson?

ALL:
Yes, Peter!

PETER PAN:
Listen to your teacher. Repeat after me:
I won’t grow up,
(I won’t grow up)
I don’t want to go to school.
(I don’t want to go to school)
Just to learn to be a parrot,
(Just to learn to be a parrot)
And recite a silly rule.
(And recite a silly rule)
If growing up means
It would be beneath my dignity to climb a tree,
I’ll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up
Not me!
Not I,
Not me!
Not me!
I won’t grow up,
(I won’t grow up)
I don’t want to wear a tie.
(I don’t want to wear a tie)
And a serious [removed]And a serious expression)
In the middle of July.
(In the middle of July)
And if it means I must prepare
To shoulder burdens with a worried air,

I’ll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up
Not me,
Not I,
Not me!
So there!
Never gonna be a man,
I won’t!
Like to see somebody try
And make me.
Anyone who wants to try
And make me turn into a man,
Catch me if you can.
I won’t grow up.
Not a penny will I pinch.
I will never grow a mustache,
Or a fraction of an inch.
‘Cause growing up is awfuller
Than all the awful things that ever were.
I’ll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up,
No sir,
Not I,
Not me,
So there!

I won’t grow up!
(I won’t grow up)
I will never even try
(I will never even try)
I will do what Peter tells me
(I will do what Peter tells me)
And I’ll never ask him why
(And I’ll never ask him why)

We won’t grow up!
(We won’t grow up)
We will never grow a day
(We will never grow a day)
And if someone tries to make it
(And if someone tries to make it)
We will simply run away
(We will simply run away)

I won’t grow up!
(I won’t grow up)
No, I promise that I won’t
(No, I promise that I won’t)
I will stay a boy forever
(I will stay a boy forever)
And be banished if I don’t!
(And be banished if I don’t)

And Never Land will always be
The home of beauty and joy
And neverty
I’ll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up
Not me!
Not me!
Not me!
Not me!
No sir!
Not me!

Comment #25: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  09/02  at  12:49 PM

Happy birthday Amanda!  smile

Having a 17-year-old makes you aware of the dichotomy between your own youth and actually being young, though.  I’m just sayin.  It’s a very strange sensation sometimes. smile

Comment #26: Lisa KS  on  09/02  at  12:50 PM

My Dad taught me that being an adult meant accepting responsibility and considering other people as well as yourself.  At age 50 it still seems like a pretty good standard.

Comment #27: Woodrowfan  on  09/02  at  12:55 PM

And Happy Birthday!!! (and yes, age 32 does seem kinda young now to me!)

Comment #28: Woodrowfan  on  09/02  at  12:55 PM

Am I really the only one who feels like an adult?  I’ve felt it for a very long time, and to me it’s about being responsible enough to take care of myself and any dependents.  It’s not just about having a job, but also being responsible enough to make sure that money goes to the right places on time (paying bills, etc.).  It’s not just about money, but making sure my cat always has food, water, and a clean litter box.  It’s about not forgetting those things and letting them slip, knowing that someone else will just take care of it before the cat dies.  It’s about making sure I have clean laundry, and getting up on time for work without someone else around to make sure I’m up on time.  It’s about having the ability to make important decisions, and the responsibility to make the right choice most of the time.  I’ve felt this way since I was a teenager, but I really started to feel like an adult when other people started taking my opinion seriously.  My opinions hadn’t changed, but my age had and suddenly people cared about what I had to say.  This happened when I was 20.  I also feel like an adult when I have pizza for breakfast or cake for dinner, but I also feel like an adult because I do those things so rarely.  I still play with Legos, but now it’s “art” rather than play.  Sometimes I even color in my old coloring books, but because of my age, it might be considered fashion design.  I display many of my childhood toys, but now it’s collecting rather than playing.  The same hobbies are called different things depend on the age of the person who does them, so that can’t be a good definition of adulthood.  I think being grown-up is about being responsible enough to take care of yourself and any dependents, and that includes not having dependents if you know you can’t care for them.

Comment #29: bananacat  on  09/02  at  12:56 PM

I’m with keshmeshi and Honestb.  I’ve been around adult children before, and it can really suck to be around them (heavily narcissic).  It also sucks when you realize you have some their characteristics.

Not growing up, explicitly excluding the adoption of conformist signals, generally means that you have to have serious privilege to have much of a long-term future.  Conflating adulthood with the cult of the tie really undermines the strong sense of identity needed for the ability to act in the world.

le sigh, I’m only a couple of weeks younger than Amanda…

Comment #30: shah8  on  09/02  at  01:01 PM

Happy birthday, Amanda!

My friend turns 32 tomorrow, and in honor of the occasion, he and I and five of our friends are playing hooky and driving to Six Flags. Last year, for my 31st, I had a party at a bowling alley.

Each of us are fairly “adult” in responsibility terms— he’s head of production at a small publisher, I’m one step from partner at my consulting company—but still fairly childish in terms of what our passions are. We enjoy rollercoasters, cartoons, video games (increasingly, the Lego franchise) and pub trivia. We don’t golf, we don’t play tennis at the club, and though each of us is in long term relationships, neither really plans to have kids.

It’s ok - man or woman - to embrace the inner child. Adulthood is nothing more than having the means to do what you want, and the responsibility of the outcome of those decisions. Being an adult means that yes, you can have cake for dinner if you want, though it’s your fault when the crazy dreams come as a result. smile

Comment #31: Manhattan Transplant  on  09/02  at  01:04 PM

Happy birthday, Amanda, from one big kid to another. Here’s an appropriate Sinatra standard. If only those Greatests, Silents and, yes, the Boomers had actually paid attention to Carolyn Leigh’s lyrics:

Fairy tales can come true, it can happen to you
If you’re young at heart
For its hard, you will find, to be narrow of mind
If you’re young at heart

You can go to extremes with impossible schemes
You can laugh when your dreams fall apart at the seams
And life gets more exciting with each passing day
And love is either in your heart or on its way

Dont you know that its worth every treasure on earth
To be young at heart
For as rich as you are its much better by far
To be young at heart

And if you should survive to 105
Look at all youll derive out of being alive
Then here is the best part
You have a head start
If you are among the very young at heart

And if you should survive to 105
Look at all you’ll derive out of being alive
Then here is the best part
You have a head start
If you are among the very young at heart

Comment #32: Gracchus.  on  09/02  at  01:07 PM

Happy birthday!!!

I’m right behind you…will be turning 30 in April.  I agree with your sentiments about growing up, wholeheartedly.

And I think, actually, that more people have those sentiments than they ever let or/are allowed to let on.

My mom told me a story about something my grandmother said before she died at age 96.  Apparently they were talking about again, and my grandmother said that the thing that pissed her off the most about aging was that the person inside hadn’t aged, and was still a little girl in many ways.  I think we all imagine that being “grown up” is going to entail some sort of magic transformation where we’ll all of a sudden “feel grown-up.”  Definitely not in my case.  And apparently not in yours either.

Oh and fancy cookware isn’t grown-up.  I have a fancy cutlery set and a fancy cookware set and I’m a 29 year old single gay guy, I really don’t cook much, but whatever.  I just like nice shit.

(And I sell it…but still.  It wouldn’t be stocking my personal kitchen if I didn’t see the value having it for myself.)

Comment #33: Evan Hurst  on  09/02  at  01:10 PM

I kinda want to talk about Peter Pan, actually.  The original children’s book, as that book had some interesting thoughts about adulthood.

Comment #34: shah8  on  09/02  at  01:10 PM

Happy Birthday Amanda! I’m right behind you (kinda) as I’m turning 28 toward the end of this month. Much like carr2d2 I don’t feel like an “adult” and really have no idea what that means. Often times I will try to “act” more adult and then I feel like a fraud and I’m miserable, or else my guard comes down eventually anyway and I’m me. So now I try to take myself as I am and just enjoy life.

Here’s to many more birthdays!

Comment #35: UltraMagnus  on  09/02  at  01:10 PM

Happy Birthday, Amanda! And congratulations for figuring out how to live your life your way. It’s actually a huge achievement and one that takes many people a lot longer to learn, if they learn it at all.

Comment #36: Phoebe Fay  on  09/02  at  01:11 PM

Happy birthday Amanda! This was an excellent post - ever since I was very young, I’ve always been the serious, mature one. I’d get impatient when my friends acted silly, I was extremely academic and prioritized studying over having fun (not saying that I wish I’d flunked my classes, but having realized how little one’s GPA means in the workforce I wish I’d actually enjoyed college more), and I’ve gotten frustrated when my fiance acts immature (especially because he’s 7 years older than me and I feel like, well, why can’t he just freaking grow up?!?)  But…you make a great point about not having to sacrifice youthfulness to some stupid ideas of what it means to be an adult.  It’s possible to balance a career and responsibility with playing video games and staying up all night.  It can be a fine line to walk, between having fun and being totally irresponsible and stupid, but it’s worth it.  And yes, I’m tired of being the responsible, fun-hating woman!

Comment #37: susanstohelit  on  09/02  at  01:15 PM

Happy Birthday, Amanda, and many more! Yes, I remember the good old days of 32. smile

Comment #38: Pam Spaulding  on  09/02  at  01:17 PM

I am 64 and long ago I realized I would never qualify as a grown up. As a young adult librarian, I realized I am permanently arrested at 15. Helping take care of my two year old grandson, I suspect 2 year olds might be my true peers.

Comment #39: redstockinggrandma  on  09/02  at  01:19 PM

Agreed about the not-growing-up business. And happy birthday!

Comment #40: inkybrain  on  09/02  at  01:20 PM

Great post, even better timing.  Happy Birthday. |=)

Comment #41: bomberE  on  09/02  at  01:23 PM

Happy birthday! (You are within about seven months of how old I thought you were, in fact) Now I bring nitpicking:

My problem with accounts of hippie parenting weren’t so much with the co-option of childish things for adults, but the fact that they were the first generation in a while to try to completely implode the boundary between adult things and childish things and I’ve run into lots of cases of children in the 60s counterculture who were treated as adults with regards to sex, drugs, and being expected to feed themselves, where said children did not actually have the power or wherewithal to resist, decline, or cook. I think progressives have become more capable, in the years that followed, of mixing a belief in flexibility and casualness with values of protecting personal autonomy; ideally, progressive values mix freedom with respect for the vulnerable, and that project is ongoing. I think Gen X’ers, for all that everyone loves to call them self-centered, have played a huge roll in restoring the value of playfulness to its rightful status as something belonging to humans of any age.

Comment #42: purpleshoes  on  09/02  at  01:25 PM

Hope you have a wonderful birthday!

I’ve never been able to understand how being a grown-up is anything more than the ability to be responsible for yourself and anyone you are “supposed” to be responsible for (family members). This notion that grown-ups are not allowed to pursue things that they find pleasurable even if they aren’t dropping the ball on their responsibility to do so is nonsense based in the puritanical belief that anything pleasurable is sinful.

And I think a big component of this wrong-headed notion about being a “grown-up” once you crest 30 is this idea that a real grown-up (esp a grown-up sporting a vagina) has to have children, otherwise, you’re not REALLY a grown-up. That uncrossing your legs and pushing out a miniature version of yourself is some ultimate sign of maturity, which is nonsense.

I work between 42-45 hours a week minimum, and I often put in time during the weekend off the books because I find my career to be rewarding and I’m doing pretty much exactly what I want to do (well, ok, I have pipe dreams about being a famous author or starting a game studio, but it’s not like I feel I’m wasting my life in some wage slave job because I’m not those things). I’ve got a mortgage and a car payment, I’ve paid off my college loans and am probably the only person in history to pause midway through a tough section of Fallout 3 so that she can go bake (from scratch) what turned out to be an awesome lattice-topped pie. But one of the most mature, responsible things I’ve done is square with the fact that I’m not parent material (not because I’m irresponsible or immature, but because I don’t want them) and take steps to guarantee that I won’t, in a moment of hormones and weakness, make a bad decision that will negatively affect me as well as another human being who had no say in the matter.

Yes, I like videogames. Anyone who looks at all I’ve accomplished in my life and decides I’m “immature” because I don’t have kids and pre-ordered Majesty 2 can kiss my ass.

Comment #43: Mighty Ponygirl  on  09/02  at  01:27 PM

A very Happy 32nd Birthday to you, Amanda!

Comment #44: atheist  on  09/02  at  01:31 PM

My mom told me a story about something my grandmother said before she died at age 96.  Apparently they were talking about again, and my grandmother said that the thing that pissed her off the most about aging was that the person inside hadn’t aged, and was still a little girl in many ways.

My Mom relates an almost identical story from her grandmother (who lived to be 104!). They were sitting in her living room and my great grandmother went to get up. After finally achieving verticality she turned to my Mom and said, “It’s funny. Every time I go to stand up, I leap out of this chair. Then I turn around and discover that there’s still this </i>old</i> person sitting there.”

Comment #45: Egnu Cledge  on  09/02  at  01:35 PM

“The distinction between children and adults, while probably useful for some purposes, is at bottom a specious one, I feel. There are only individual egos, crazy for love.”

-Niccolo Machiavelli

Comment #46: atheist  on  09/02  at  01:35 PM

Agreeing with keshmeshi 100%. 
It isn’t the fun stuff that makes you not an adult or grown up, it’s the not being responsible for yourself or any commitments you’ve made.  It strikes me as grown up to decide to wait to have children if you don’t want to have that commitment asopposed to going ahead and having them without being sure you will be able to meet it (very childish, IMO).  And yeah, going out for fun while leaving the spouse/someone else behind to be responsibilities in ones place is what would make someone selfish and childish, not the fun activity itself.

Happy birthday.  I hope you never grow up to your definition of grown up!  What a bore that would be.

Comment #47: helen w. h.  on  09/02  at  01:38 PM

As for Gilman’s piece, children are not stupid. They instinctively know when an adult has crossed the line between necessary parenthood and self-indulgent “friendship”. When my nieces were little and misbehaved, then tried to weasel out of the consequences, my sister would say to them, “I am NOT your friend I am your parent and things will be done the way I say they’re done!” When it was time, there was also a lot of fun activities, trips, stuff. My sister is not a conformist, she is a parent—this is after all, the woman on got up on a client’s desk and spoofed a sales song to get his business—she killed! (Yes, she had been a high school cheerleader.)

Now that my nieces are fifteen and twelve, they ADORE their mother. They still like to spend as much time with her as they can, even the fifteen YO with the driver’s permit.

Keeping your word and your commitments are what make the modern adult. The old-fashioned rites of passage that indicated who became an adult(usually only male)now exist only in the fantasies of our fundie friends and barely anywhere else in Western culture. Thank goodness.

Comment #48: LCforevah  on  09/02  at  01:38 PM

Happy birthday, Amanda!

Yeah, I’m going to continue to wear mismatched converse and jeans everywhere and ride my bicycle around and learn how to skateboard and boogie board and do belly flops and go on roller coasters and shit.

Comment #49: Jenny Dreadful  on  09/02  at  01:46 PM

I’m 32 as well, a professional, married, 2 cats, a car payment, etc. and I have never, ever felt like a grown up. Don’t care to either. My wife and I play video games and go to movies. We go to concerts, travel, I write books, she’s a photographer and we’re happy as could be.

On the flip side, I’ve seen people who buy into the straight and narrow grown up path. Women with frosted hair and a pound of “professional” style make up. Frat boy looking dude’s wearing pink polo shirts. They look like they’re in their 40’s but are really mid 20’s and miserable as hell. Like they’re lost and confused, beaten down by kids they don’t want, a career they don’t want and all to fulfill some weird image of adulthood that was fed to them by their equally disenchanted parents. Mostly, they’re republicans. Weird what slavish adherence to tradition does to a person.

Comment #50: Keith  on  09/02  at  01:51 PM

Adult = fulfilling your responsibilities to others who depend on you or to whom you have committed.
That’s it.
Everything else is negotiable.

Comment #51: seeker6079  on  09/02  at  01:53 PM

This is a wonderful attitude to have.  Since having my daughter a few months ago I get asked occasionaly “What is it like to be a mother?”, and it’s hard to answer.  It’s awesome, fun, I love her…but I still feel so much like myself before I was a mother.  I have the house, the husband, the job and now a baby, but I feel much the same as I did when I was 17.  I just do different things now.

I also appreciate this post because I sometimes find myself comtemplating silly things like whether it’s appropriate for a 31 year old to wear blue nail polish.  The answer is yes, of course.  I like blue nail polish and will continue to wear it even when I’m 81.

Comment #52: Olivia  on  09/02  at  01:54 PM

I think that being financially destitute for much of my life to date has given me the sensation of always being excluded from true adulthood. Not much to pat yourself on the back about when you’re riding your bicycle from dumpster to dumpster at 1:00 AM on a Tuesday or paying for a tall can with nickels. Even in those desperate times, though, I still tried to find a way to have fun and find joy in things, even simple things like riding to the park and feeding the ducks or borrowing a DVD or making ginger beer from scratch.

Comment #53: Jenny Dreadful  on  09/02  at  01:54 PM

HAPPY MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY! W00T!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40K2S0-5Xo0

Comment #54: PhysioProf  on  09/02  at  01:57 PM

I remember reading—I think on this very blog, but I could be wrong about that—a person who exclaimed: “I thought by now [whatever age that was] that I would have my shit together. I don’t even know where my shit IS!”

A pretty good definition of the dichotomy of adulthood expectations as I have ever heard.

Happy Birthday, Amanda

Comment #55: Vir Modestus  on  09/02  at  01:58 PM

Whenever I hear of people going to shows when their spouse is at home taking care of a sick child

Well, obviously, that’s fucked up, but I meant more the general going to shows and wishing that your spouse would come with, but alas, she’s too busy being grown up.  For what, I’m not blaming women.  Obviously, we’re shamed in ways men aren’t if we act entitled to pleasure.  Women aren’t supposed to feel and want, they’re supposed to give and conform.

Comment #56: Amanda Marcotte  on  09/02  at  02:00 PM

Hippy Yardbath, Manada!

Speaking as a 45 year-old I still feel like a kid. I still work as a toymaker, for Christ’s sake! You youngsters are far more grown up than I am!

Comment #57: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood  on  09/02  at  02:00 PM

Samhita’s piece is good. One thing I am really confused about from the nasty “we girls” shit she quoted that maybe one of “you girls” can help me out with: “whether or not our initials mesh nicely.”

What the fuck does that even mean?

Comment #58: PhysioProf  on  09/02  at  02:02 PM

Adults can certainly be playful, but when you have kids, you know, you’re also supposed to be the adult, for fuck’s sake. Not your kids’ friend, not somebody who absolutely fails to model maturity because, dude, whoa, that’s totally harshing my mellow to pay the bills and shit, you know?

She resented them for packing into a car like a bunch of clowns and filming themselves popping out of it while doing the watusi.  I fail to see how this conflicts with taking care of children, and am sad whenever I see that attitude pop up.  Even as a kid, I found adults who insisted on being prim and proper adults utterly tiresome.  Adults were much easier to get along with when they let their hair down a little.  Which, since my parents came of age in the 70s, was a lot of the time.

Comment #59: Amanda Marcotte  on  09/02  at  02:06 PM

Physio,

Does it mean “mesh” as in caligraphically? Like, can the “girl” make a nicely intertwined thorny-heart-luuuuuv design out of it?

Or maybe just “mesh” as in “not clash.” For example, if Felicity Upshur fell in love with Charlie Kimball, she’d be stuck writing “FU + CK” on her Pee Chee folder.

Comment #60: Auguste  on  09/02  at  02:13 PM

Or if Alice Niedermayer fell in love with Andy Lewis, she’d have to write “AN + AL.”

Comment #61: Auguste  on  09/02  at  02:14 PM

Happy Birthday,

I can attest, being almost twice your age, that it is possible to never grow up.  Doan hafta, doan wanna, ain’t gonna.  It’s your birthday but ‘tis you that give us the gift every day of your fine writing.  Whether I agree with your points or not; you’re writing is always cogent, sane and thought provoking.  I hope you get something you really, really, really want to day.

Comment #62: Magis  on  09/02  at  02:14 PM

Francis Imrie and Stephen Thorne.

Comment #63: Auguste  on  09/02  at  02:15 PM

Worst of all, though, is when Francis and Stephen struck up a polyamorous relationship with Uma Lee-Atkinson.

Comment #64: Auguste  on  09/02  at  02:16 PM

William Ayers + Nedra Kaplan 2GETHER 4EVER!

Comment #65: PhysioProf  on  09/02  at  02:18 PM

Happy Birthday Amanda!  For 32, you have accomplished a lot.  I love this site with your extremely insightful posts.  The commenters are first rate.

I’m 54, but feel about 42. I guess that doesn’t change.  We always feel younger than we really are.  Best wishes for a successful and happy year.

Comment #66: jackspratt  on  09/02  at  02:32 PM

“As for Gilman’s piece, children are not stupid. They instinctively know when an adult has crossed the line between necessary parenthood and self-indulgent “friendship”.”

Children aren’t stupid, no, but they tend toward being self-centered.  And they’re just as capable of unfairly and/or selfishly resenting parents who don’t conform to their own ideas of what a parent should be as they are of knowing when an adult is being a parent or being a jerk.

Comment #67: preying mantis  on  09/02  at  02:35 PM

I guess my opinion of adults hasn’t changed from that I had as a kid because, like insightful commenters point out, you’re basically the same person.  Though you do change.  I don’t tack shit up on the walls with thumbtacks and I actually keep my place clean.

Comment #68: Amanda Marcotte  on  09/02  at  02:43 PM

Happy Birthday, Amanda; for the record, my thought on learning you’re 32 is, “gosh; she’s just shy of a month older than me!”  Mine’s the 26th.

I’ve been fighting on this front since I was a kid; when I hit adolescence, I was told I was supposed to give up toys and cartoons: I did neither.  When I got to high school, I was supposed to give up video games and comic books.  Of the four, only the toys aren’t represented in my bedroom and living room, and that’s really only because I actually don’t find the epic tales of drama, romance and local government (I had a really good reaction to my first Civics class) fun anymore.  I’m not sure why that happened, but I still appreciate the impulse to do it, so when I gave my G.I. Joes, Masters of the Universe and PVC figurines to my mom for her garage sale, I kept a few out as keepsakes.  The rest are prominently featured among my possessions; one could not possibly walk into my apartment and mistake me for someone who hasn’t retained the pastimes of his childhood (for the most part).  If they take issue with it, they know where the door is.

Comment #69: nekouken  on  09/02  at  02:46 PM

This link seems appropriate.  I don’t wear microminis, but I was unaware that showing knees at my advanced age was wrong.

It’s funny how conservatives both are panicked about teenagers having sex but then want everyone to grow up and act like a fuddy-duddy.  I’m a fan of offending myself by listening to Laura Sessions Stepp’s podcast, and every week, it’s the same story.  Basically, that it’s horrible that kids in college don’t date like people in their late 20s on.  (You know, dinner dates, etc.)  Fucking let them be kids.  Jesus H. Christ.  Sessions Stepp would be mortified to see some of the stuff Marc and I did when we were first dating.  Sitting on the floor of my apartment, playing games?! We should be dressing up and talking about polite topics over dinner.

Comment #70: Amanda Marcotte  on  09/02  at  02:49 PM

Just another chapter in the conservatives’ aeons-long, tragically tense relationship with society, humanity and reality.

Comment #71: atheist  on  09/02  at  02:54 PM

I have been thinking about this video:

http://www.vbs.tv/watch/epicly-later-d/alex-olson

It is about a skateboarder, Alex Olson.  At about 7:20 into the video you meet his dad Steve Olson who was a professional skateboarder in the 1970s.  It is funny to see them interact because the dad is almost hypomanic and that causes the son to become cautious, withdrawn, irritable yet protective when he is with him.  Some people just have a personality conflict with their parents.  People hate on hippies way too much though.

Whenever I hear of people going to shows when their spouse is at home taking care of a sick child ...

It can vary, but unless the kid is repeatedly vomiting and there is a lot of clean up and laundry to do or the kid is so sick that you may need a parent to take the kid to the hospital, one parent can take care of a sick kid.  Sick kids are pretty subdued.

Comment #72: lemmy caution  on  09/02  at  02:55 PM

Happy Birthday, Amanda!

When my grandmother was on her deathbed, at 72 years old, she turned to my mother and said, “I still feel seventeen inside.” She was a creative and youthful spirit, a painter. She never stopped finding new joy in the world and trying new things with a child’s fearlessness. In her late sixties she even started writing novels! I’d be lucky to live as well as she did.

Comment #73: other_orange  on  09/02  at  02:57 PM

Amanda,

Thank you for writing this as I am around the same as you and I have lately been feeling conflicted over picking up a hobby I’ve always wanted to learn, but was unable to learn due to my family’s financial situation when I was in high school/college….learning the electric guitar.* 

For some weird reason, I’ve grew up with the notion that learning the electric guitar/anything associated with modern music was something more appropriate to well-off young adolescents aspiring to be rockstars. 

As irrational as this notion is, been struggling to fight it, especially considering I was lucky enough to gained a vintage ‘60s era electric guitar (Kay solidbody) free from a friend who found it abandoned in his apartment lobby along with a free solid-state amp from a acquaintance of another friend who plays in a rock band.  Still feel quite self-conscious about it whenever I try to practice…especially considering I never played a musical instrument in my life. 

*Out of curiosity, do you/anyone here play?

ever since I was very young, I’ve always been the serious, mature one. I’d get impatient when my friends acted silly, I was extremely academic and prioritized studying over having fun (not saying that I wish I’d flunked my classes, but having realized how little one’s GPA means in the workforce I wish I’d actually enjoyed college more), and I’ve gotten frustrated when my fiance acts immature (especially because he’s 7 years older than me and I feel like, well, why can’t he just freaking grow up?!?)

susanstohelit,

Though I didn’t feel this way from the time I was very young, I felt the same way the moment I started college as a 17 year old and was appalled at the extent of immaturity and its manifestation in social interaction between classmates in and out of class….and the vast majority back then tended to be one or more years older than I was.  This feeling was magnified when I visited more mainstream colleges friends attended during breaks and found that undergrads who were hitting 20-22 apparently felt it was ok to come to class blisteringly drunk or scream loudly at their parents over the phone demanding they send more money after they spent their entire semester’s budget less than 2 months into the semester. rolleyes

Comment #74: exholt  on  09/02  at  03:04 PM

Hippo birdy 2 ewe!  Of course, you are still 4 years younger than my son, but you are still doing fine.

Comment #75: DrDick  on  09/02  at  03:13 PM

I didn’t find Gilman’s essay painful to read at all. I thought she did a great job of looking at her hippie childhood through the revisionist lens of adulthood. It sounds like her parents did a fine job of making sure she had food, a roof over her head etc and that Gilman can see that as well. I think that in hindsight, she realizes that they were nuts, just like most of us do when becoming adults and looking back at what was considered “normal” in our innocent little minds. But anyway, Happy Birthday!

Comment #76: Chryslin  on  09/02  at  03:17 PM

If there’s one thing that defines adulthood for me, it’s learning to live with uncertainty.

This.

When you’re a kid, you have rather set routines (school, etc.) with set expectations (elementary, middle, high school) and grown ups that set the rules and enforce them.  There’s a certain stability in that.

When you leave home, you start to realize that there are no set routines (your first job will most likely not be one where you stay for 25-50 years) there are no set expectations (no frosh/soph/jr/sr rankings that progress even if you only do average work) and outside of some wide legal restricitions (don’t murder people) there are few hard rules for how to live your life.  You are in charge of yourself, and that’s scary and exciting.

It’s why children really prefer to have limits and rules—>it means someone else is in charge and you can relax.

The lack of rules is what gets people fussing about women not getting married young and having babies—>that was the expectation…but it’s not really required.  In general, we see most young married people end up divorced, so they end up miserable first and they suck it up at first by saying they did the right thing.

You see it in the theocrats—>they aren’t responsible for anything, they just do what their God/Authority figure standing in for him tells them.  No worries b/c you still have no responsibilities.  You will be Raptured b/c you accept Jesus as your Savior, even though you do absolutely nothing that Jesus asked of his followers.

Anyone who bucks those traditions is subject to ire and ridicule b/c those traditions generally don’t make people happy.  They do them because they were expected to do them and because they were told to do them.  Since they were told, and it’s the RIGHT thing to do, everyone should have to share in the misery.  You’ll be rewarded in the afterlife.

People doing the “wrong” thing and being happy?  Just shows them that they could have been happier had they taken control of and responsibility for their lives. 

Freedom is scary.  Real grown ups deal with it.  Pretend grown ups look for authority figures and tradition to give them mindless and responsibility-free structure while all the while attacking anyone who wasn’t frightened into mindless obedience.

Comment #77: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  09/02  at  03:18 PM

I don’t play guitar, but exholt, Marc just recently picked up the drums, and he’s doing really well.  I know a lot of people who only picked up an instrument in their mid-20s to 30s and have a lot of fun.  It’s certainly nothing to be intimidated by, unless you want to be a career musician, in what case, you might be behind the curve.  wink  But then again, so are most people.  Some people learn a bunch of instruments young and hit a wall in terms of talent. 

But seriously?  One of my allies in the world of refusing to grow up just went on tour with his band for the first time at 32.  We’ve been friends since we were 18, and I’d say he only really took playing the guitar seriously a few years ago.  Before then, it was mostly fucking around.

Comment #78: Amanda Marcotte  on  09/02  at  03:21 PM

Happy birthday Amanda!

This post reminds me of the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on ‘em. Give me five bees for a quarter, you’d say.

Now where were we? Oh yeah: the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones…

Comment #79: cynickal  on  09/02  at  03:21 PM

Agree agree agree about being yourself = being adult. You know what? The day we’re supposed to be too old for unseemly silly giggly slapstick is the day you may as well pull the plug on me.  If I didn’t have moments of pure giddy at the supposedly genteel age of 39, I wouldn’t feel human.  Can you imagine a household with a physicist and a literature scholar that allowed for no silly dances and outrageous facial expressions and heehaw laughter and mockery and song?  That would be a household where two thirtysomethings take themselves way too seriously (we call those people “lemon-mouths” or “dial-tones”).  You can be mature in your decisions, gracious in your interactions, and still retain that light of overt inanity when the maggot bites (where appropriate, of course).  Adulthood shouldn’t stifle our native animation (and personally—I know I don’t speak for all—I have a harder time relating to people who don’t have animated personalities, not-that-there’s-anything-wrong-with-that, and I’m sure my animated personality is hard to take for some, in turn). Don’t let yourself grow ALL the way up if it goes against your nature. Adulthood has a suffocating performative aspect like anything else, and you nailed it by citing its “culture war”, one-hat bugs (not features, dammit!)

Happy b-day, AM, many more.

Comment #80: Ranylt  on  09/02  at  03:24 PM

Also, being in a band is not an either/or proposition.  I think when you’re young, it’s easy to believe rock star or broke, but most people I know play for a little extra income here and there—-and mostly for fun—-but have jobs, sometimes even super grown-up professional jobs.

Comment #81: Amanda Marcotte  on  09/02  at  03:25 PM

Also, being in a band is not an either/or proposition.  I think when you’re young, it’s easy to believe rock star or broke, but most people I know play for a little extra income here and there—-and mostly for fun—-but have jobs, sometimes even super grown-up professional jobs.

One concern I have is how harshly would this be looked upon by academic advisers in graduate programs, especially after hearing many horror stories of highly productive and high achieving grad students in a variety of fields being kicked out of their programs because their hobbies happen to be ones their advisers disapproved of as what happened to a college classmate’s friend. 

Out of curiosity, what kinds of music does Marc and your friends play?

Comment #82: exholt  on  09/02  at  03:40 PM

Happy Birthday, Amanda Marcotte!  Your writing has made my life better.  The world makes more sense to me, and I am more able to live consistently with my own ideals, because of you.  Thank you.

Comment #83: Punditus Maximus  on  09/02  at  03:57 PM

Also, being in a band is not an either/or proposition.  I think when you’re young, it’s easy to believe rock star or broke, but most people I know play for a little extra income here and there—-and mostly for fun—-but have jobs, sometimes even super grown-up professional jobs.

A friend of mine from my San Francisco day was a terrific guitarist who played in pickup bands and sang with his wife. He also ran the shipping department at the brewery where I was lucky enough to have a job, and the bumper sticker on his ratted out Datsun (yeah it was that old) said “Real Musicians Have Jobs.”

Comment #84: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  09/02  at  03:58 PM

Well, I’m 27 and have certainly failed at growing up… haven’t had a job since 2006, and haven’t looked for one either. Terrified of working. Would kill myself before I sit in another cubicle. Still live with, and off of, my parents.

Comment #85: Doug S.  on  09/02  at  03:59 PM

Your writing has made my life better.  The world makes more sense to me, and I am more able to live consistently with my own ideals, because of you.

I couldn’t agree more with this. If it weren’t for Amanda Marcotte and Richard Dawkins, I wouldn’t know my own mind nearly as well as I do now.

Comment #86: junk science  on  09/02  at  03:59 PM

Many returns Amanda.

If you want music that plumbs these questions, that’s Milo Auckerman’s stomping grounds;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFjnKo0BPqM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOn3hLK-wGY

Comment #87: Sarcastro  on  09/02  at  04:08 PM

I’m not so thankful for all those plump 40-something guys in ball caps and t-shirts out there, or the ponytails on men over 50 (especially if they’re balding).

Both look wrong. And undignified somehow. I like the idea of being grown-up, actually, and wearing grown-up clothes, if we could have that without the 50s-style repression.

But then again I’d be fine with everyone wearing plastic bags if they wanted to, if I could just guarantee that every adult everywhere would be courteous and considerate. But all we seem to have lately is slovenly, childish behavior to match the slovenly, childish clothing.

(32 is still just within the pale of passing for young and hip. From what I can tell, 36 is about where passing for young and hip is over for good. It’ll be interesting to see how Amanda handles hitting that wall of undeniable senectitude.)

Comment #88: wapsie  on  09/02  at  04:16 PM

I’m 36, and there has long been the growing realization that I have aged (sadly), but not “grown up”. At least, not by my parent’s (or their generation’s) standards. I have what I should probably think of as a “career” at this point, a house with my girlfriend, a car, cats, dogs, bills, etc.: all the trappings of adulthood. And yet it has become increasingly clear that “growing up” means “conforming”.

Somewhat the same here.  I’m 38, have a well-paying career, my condo, my vehicles (well, actually my wife owns the truck, I’d be happy just tooling around on my ATV or on foot in the winter). In my spare time I fight fires and run around in an ambulance.

And I read comic books (no, I don’t “collect” them, I buy them to read), I love cartoons (a whole section of my DVD/Blu-Ray library consists of them), I bought the 360 when Halo 3 came out, and I’m thinking about a PS3, I’ve got my Guitar Hero Les Paul axe, and one of my prime requirements when I upgrade my desktop is how well it will play the games I want.

And my wife?  A year older, her own career (two of them in fact, one part time), thinking about teaching figure skating this winter…and half of the cartoon disks are hers (I have to check when I run across one when I’m traveling to make sure she hasn’t pre-ordered).  I’ve got a living room full of superheroine Barbies from her collection, with more socked away in the closet until I put in more shelves.  My argument for buying the Playstation is that she bought a Wii so we might as well have the full set.  And on her last trip out she came back with colouring books and coloured pencils for her own use.

I know a lot of people consider us immature, that we have to have a kid (we decided not to have children), that we have to do things like…well, whatever it is “adults” are supposed to do in their leisure time.  Watch the news and read a newspaper, I suppose, with the girls getting together for a Tupperwear party and the guys going to a bar for the Sunday afternoon football game.

Comment #89: KeithM  on  09/02  at  04:42 PM

Happy birthday, Amanda!

When I turned 30, I remember thinking, “My mother was an adult at 30, but I don’t feel any different than I did at 20.”  Then I realized that, as a 30-year-old stay-at-home mom with five kids, she was just tired, which will drive the fun right out of you. 

Suppose that’s part of what the 60’s were all about?  “Dear God, don’t let me be like my parents”?

Now that I’m on the other side of the marriage-and-raising-kids thing (at 49), I’m more playful now that when I was younger and trying to hard to be a “grown-up”.  That’s the one thing I’d do over again if I could - and my advice all of you young’uns:  play always, no matter your age.  Besides the joy you give to yourself, you’ll be a good example for the next generation.

Comment #90: NobleExperiments  on  09/02  at  04:58 PM

Happy Birthday! I have more fun at 38 than I ever had as a serious, repressed, freaked-out 18 year old. Teenagers have less fun because they worry so much about what people think. I wish I could keep my riper brain and put it in a younger bod, but hey, I would hate to be that confused and ignorant again even if I looked better.

Although I no longer am keen on his dogmas, C.S. Lewis once made a good distinction between “childish” and “childlike.” Childish is helpless, irresponsible, naive. Childlike is having joy the way a child does. Probably just semantics, but useful nonetheless.

Comment #91: emjaybee  on  09/02  at  05:14 PM

Happy birthday!

I’m surprised you had that reaction to Hypocrite in a Pouffy White Dress. I love that book, and I didn’t read the first essay as resentful. I think it was more that she realized as an adult what a weird, atypical experience the hippie camp was for a little kid to have. And if you read the rest of the book, which goes chronologically, it’s clear that she did have two very devoted, competent parents whom she’s very fond of. They may have ben a bit odd, but they took good care of her.

Comment #92: Ktkid  on  09/02  at  05:22 PM

Growing up is overrated

Absolutely.

Comment #93: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  09/02  at  05:25 PM

Interesting, preying mantis @ #70, one niece is very obviously self-centered, but the other is almost always outside of herself paying attention to others. Yet, the supposedly self-centered one can roll with the punches—as when she couldn’t get the cake she wanted for her graduation party, and took half a second to choose another instead of throwing a tantrum. The more artistic, intuitive one can also be downright obstinate when she feels her opinion is the right one.

I guess what was and is really important is that their mom laid down firm ground rules and let them be themselves from there.

Caren @ #80, this. Freedom is scary, and it takes sometimes a long time to deal. For some never. I’d like to think that my family is handling it better now than when we were part of a rigid,  RC latin american culture.

Comment #94: LCforevah  on  09/02  at  05:51 PM

Happy Birthday!
This means I’m 2 years more clueless about “adulthood” than you are though. wink

Thanks for this post. It’s amazing how so many people are in the same boat and we all think that everyone else has more of a clue than we do.

Comment #95: Danica Lefse Queen  on  09/02  at  05:53 PM

shah8

I find it interesting that when PP was adapted for the stage, the tradition began of having a woman play the title character began then as well.

Comment #96: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  09/02  at  06:22 PM

I like the comment above, I forget whose, who compared reaching adulthood with a narrowing of choices.  Myself, I think of life as almost a cone, with at the beginning, a limitless universe of possibilities.  As your decisions get made and time slips by, the possibilities for what lie ahead start to dwindle, probably exponentially, until the only choice you are still able to make is, well, death.

Happy Birthday Amanda!  tongue wink

Comment #97: Gavel Down  on  09/02  at  06:23 PM

I am 64 and long ago I realized I would never qualify as a grown up. As a young adult librarian, I realized I am permanently arrested at 15.

Heh.  Was sitting at busstop, reading graphic novel.  Someone looked at me and said “a comic book?”  I looked back at him and, in the most supercilious tone I could muster, sneered “I’m a librarian.”  he slunk away.

Comment #98: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  09/02  at  06:40 PM

I’m 23.  I like where I am now: no kids, no mortgage, no marriage, no car payments.  If growing up means going after those things, then I’m perfectly fine with remaining a kid indefinitely. 

One point of contention: “be yourself” as advice is kind of silly when you think about it.  It’s not possible for someone not to be themselves.  If someone attempts to pull off an attitude or look or live life in a way that they’re not comfortable with, that doesn’t mean they’re not being themselves, it just means that contained as a part of their self is the urge to be a poseur or conform.  Whatever people do, that’s who they are, in my view.

Comment #99: Tim P.  on  09/02  at  07:38 PM

It’s possible to screw up a creative career (intellectual, as in academic, or artistic) because you become so frantic about getting ahead that your anxiety stultifies your ability to create or even work. Or you have a nervous breakdoown because you’re not a success.

The people in careers where being an “adult” (in the conventional sense) matters are in non-creative, authoritarian fields (banking, law, bureaucracy, military, etc.)

Amanda, IIRC you mentioned at one time that you worked as a bank teller. How did that go? Are you well out of it?

Comment #100: sara  on  09/02  at  08:53 PM

The thing about being annoyed at hippie parents struck a little bit of a chord with me, since I’ve been thinking about what being the oldest child has meant for me, growing up. 

Oldest children tend to take on a lot of responsibility for themselves, and I think it may be that first-time parents don’t really know how to treat kids like kids, so oldest children grow up feeling like they’re part of the adult world.  I have two younger sisters, and they seemed to be a lot more into being kids than I ever was.  The thing that’s been blowing my mind is that both of my sisters got engaged over the summer, and they’re going to be getting married a little older than I did - there’s a 2.5 year space between each of us, and I’ve already been married for five years.  It doesn’t seem to make sense in the dynamic where I am the old one.  We Andersons are apparently the marryin’ kind. 

Sorry to totally diverge from the topic, but I’ve been obsessing over the weirdness of aging lately.  Over the last few birthdays, I’ve noticed myself thinking, “Weird, I’ve never been this old before - Oh, DUH.”  Happy birthday, though!

Comment #101: saraeanderson  on  09/02  at  08:56 PM

Very late to the bday party, but:  happy birthday, Amanda!

Comment #102: Michael Bérubé  on  09/02  at  09:22 PM

I know a lot of people consider us immature, that we have to have a kid (we decided not to have children), that we have to do things like…well, whatever it is “adults” are supposed to do in their leisure time.  Watch the news and read a newspaper, I suppose, with the girls getting together for a Tupperwear party and the guys going to a bar for the Sunday afternoon football game.

And golf…don’t forget golf. From what I’ve seen, sleep is also a big leisure-time activity with the parents of young children.

Really, this “immaturity” business is a constant-upping-the-ante kind of game: not dating seriously? Immature; dating seriously but not engaged? Immature; engaged but no date set? Immature; date set but a small wedding or elopement planned? Immature; had the big wedding but don’t want kids? Immature; have kids but working in a creative profession you enjoy instead of a “serious” one? Immature; got the “serious” job but not going for the mortgaged-up-the-wazoo McMansion and 2 SUVs? Immature. Etc., etc.

The only way to “win” with these people is to demonstrate you’re as miserable, stressed, and prematurely aged as they are, because only a bitter conformist arsehole calls other adults immature for reasons other than that person actually acting like a spoiled and petulant 5-year-old. Screw that noise—I’d rather play a nice game of chess.

Comment #103: Gracchus.  on  09/02  at  09:41 PM

Not growing up, explicitly excluding the adoption of conformist signals, generally means that you have to have serious privilege to have much of a long-term future.  Conflating adulthood with the cult of the tie really undermines the strong sense of identity needed for the ability to act in the world.

The person who’s self-aware of his privilege generally also understands that explicitly rejecting the cult of the tie* is more than an act of fashion and style, and that that act doesn’t excuse him when he shirks his responsibilities to others.

* A wonderful term which I’ll be using with your permission.

Comment #104: Gracchus.  on  09/02  at  09:56 PM

Screw that noise—I’d rather play a nice game of chess.

No, let’s play Global Thermonuclear War.

Comment #105: Linnaeus  on  09/02  at  10:42 PM

I got a copy of Hypocrite in a Pouffy….  guess I ought a read it.

Happy birthday.
I just turned 60 yesterday.  I am planning to run off to a commune and save the planet as my Act II.  Its not to late for that…its not too late for a lot of healthy immaturity.

Comment #106: greensmile  on  09/02  at  11:24 PM

No, let’s play Global Thermonuclear War.

Being an adult means you get to use *real* toys.

Sorry about Pittsburgh.

Comment #107: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  09/03  at  12:08 AM

What’s interesting to me is that this issue—-acting “adult”—-is actually yet another front in the culture war.

I talked about this with some length on DailyKos, in a thread about Lynn Jenkins. I’ve always loved how the righties cast themselves as the grownups, and the liberals as the childish. “Oh, I was liberal once, just like you… before I had kids and got a job; when you become an adult, you’ll become conservative, just like me.”

Because everyone knows that being an adult is all about sucking it up, accepting that that’s the way life is, and perpetually changing ourselves, not changing the system or our society.

Comment #108: Lucy Montrose  on  09/03  at  01:00 AM

Really, this “immaturity” business is a constant-upping-the-ante kind of game:
...
The only way to “win” with these people is to demonstrate you’re as miserable, stressed, and prematurely aged as they are, because only a bitter conformist arsehole calls other adults immature for reasons other than that person actually acting like a spoiled and petulant 5-year-old.

So, so true in my experience. People who criticize the personal lifestyle choices of others are invariably upset that those others aren’t as miserable as they are.

I never had any nostalgia for childhood… the day I left home for college was like the culmination of a dream. And I like being a grownup, in the sense that having a good job means money and freedom and doing what you’ve dreamed of doing, and that’s a heckuva lot better than what they call “the best years of your life” in high school. At the same time, the last thing I was going to do was adopt the polo-shirt-and-khakis uniform of middle age once I hit my 20s. I pick and choose, basically: it makes more sense for me to rent with roommates than to buy a condo right now (I worked it out on a spreadsheet), so that’s what I’m doing for the time being. But I don’t wear sneakers unless I’m actually participating in recreational activities (the overgrown manchildren wearing sneakers and shorts look silly to me). I like computer games and comic books, but you’re not going to catch me involved in any “silly dances and outrageous facial expressions” (nor would you have when I was 15, either).

There’s another thing I like about this post: it’s a reminder that there’s no point in “waiting” until you feel grown up to go after things like marriage, children, homes, etc.: you’re never going to feel like you “know everything” and there’s no reason to feel you should, either. If you want something, go after it now and stop feeling like you have to “prepare” for it or wait until you’re ready to shed those trappings of your “youth.” You can do it now and won’t even after to bother adopting the trappings of “grownupness” that you don’t want anyway.

Comment #109: Tyro  on  09/03  at  01:17 AM

Sorry about Pittsburgh.

Thanks.  I’m still getting over that…I should be fine by October.

At the same time, the last thing I was going to do was adopt the polo-shirt-and-khakis uniform of middle age once I hit my 20s.

I actually like both polo shirts and khakis, though I don’t wear them regularly as a uniform.  One thing that’s been nice for me as a “grownup” is that I can be totally eclectic about what I wear, whereas I didn’t feel that way when I was younger - looking something other than casual was “nerdy”.  Somedays I’ll do the jeans & t-shirt thing, other days I’ll wear buttondown oxfords.  Even a jacket and tie from time to time.

Comment #110: Linnaeus  on  09/03  at  03:06 AM

Immature; got the “serious” job but not going for the mortgaged-up-the-wazoo McMansion and 2 SUVs? Immature. Etc., etc.

Yep…got accused of being a “cheapskate” for not conforming.  Everything above was par for the course for my former colleagues except that they replaced their top-of-the-line electronics, computers, furniture, and cars every 3-6 months for kicks and “to keep up with the joneses”. 

Interesting how they threw infantile temper tantrums when they felt entitled to demand a bailout from yours truly when these same spendthrifts ended up digging deep financial holes for themselves despite earning far higher incomes and coming from upper/upper-middle class backgrounds and I refused. 

I never had any nostalgia for childhood… the day I left home for college was like the culmination of a dream. And I like being a grownup,

Other than childhood cartoons and cartoonish TV shows from the 80s and the wildly idealistic feeling of great optimism of having something wonderful to look forward to, felt similarly when I started college. 

The grownup feeling wore off after a few weeks, however, when I realized my daily routine was actually far easier and less stressful than high school.  This was further reinforced when I started working professionally with the added boredom of having to listen to people discuss sports, their latest “keeping up with the jones” acquisitions, or the latest celebrity gossip(i.e. Dudes discussing how Paris Hilton was the hawts) for most of my 8+ hour workdays.  At that point, I realized that “grownups” or adults are really kids with more knowledge, experiences, weaker imaginations/creativity on average, and an arguably greater desire for escapism from what they perceived as their boring lives. 

But I don’t wear sneakers unless I’m actually participating in recreational activities (the overgrown manchildren wearing sneakers and shorts look silly to me).

Tyro,

Funny….I tend to avoid wearing anything associated with professional wear beyond business casual shirts and black/khaki pants unless I absolutely cannot avoid it for professional or social reasons. 

I’ve long felt it was a sign of submission to those of mediocre corporate minds who judge others solely/mostly on what they wear rather than their intellect, work ethic, creativity, and drive.
Although nearly everyone says I look good in formal businesswear and shoes, the feeling of having to cater to small minds in the corporate/corporate-minded world means having a strong urge to tear it off as soon as I am done with said event and arrive home in favor of a t-shirt, jeans/worn dockers/shorts, and sneakers. 

Also, sneakers tend to feel far more comfortable for my feet…..an important consideration when I see so many older co-workers and relatives having foot issues because of stuffy footwear requirements from the workplace and society at large.  rolleyes

Comment #111: exholt  on  09/03  at  04:42 AM

One weird thing. When I was in my 20s, I felt like an ‘adult’, though actually I was childish as hell.

Since I’ve entered my 30s, and gotten more political, I feel more and more like a child, a baby even. I don’t really get it, but am not bothered by it either. The more political I get, the more ‘child’-like I feel.

Comment #112: atheist  on  09/03  at  07:50 AM

Happy (belated) birthday.

I first thought of myself as a grownup the first time I dated a woman with kids.  I was 24. 

I’m 42 now with two wee ones.  Even thought that has cut down on a lot of fun and silliness outside of home.  i.e going to shows and clubs, it does lend itself to silliness at home.

Regarding dressing like an adult -  Shoes of good quality and fit feel better on my feet than most casual shoes.  I like nice clothes.  Satin lined trousers are very comfy.  It helps to have a good tailor to alter your clothes for maximum comfort.  I wore more khakis in HS than now.  I’ve never like Polos.  In HS & college, they were preppy.  Now, I just don’t think they look very good on me.

Comment #113: Ron O.  on  09/03  at  02:45 PM

I think you need to blog about the new dutch oven.

Comment #114: Hippie Killer  on  09/03  at  06:06 PM

Happy Belated Birfday.

Comment #115: Scythian8  on  09/03  at  08:56 PM

Saw this at MCA this weekend, and thought it appropos of this thread, as well as a good gift.  Happy birthday!

(copy the whole link and insert a   where the space is between “Spit” and “Rainbow”)

http://www.mcachicago.org/media_uploads/exhibitions/73ccdSchiff_Spit Rainbow.jpg

Spit Rainbow, Melanie Schiff (b. 1977)

Comment #116: NY Expat  on  09/08  at  01:31 AM
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