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Next entry: Mad Men Tuesday: The Great Unknown Edition Previous entry: Bamboo Review: The Social Network

Hearst didn’t have a sled called Rosebud

Movies

So, after writing a largely positive review of “The Social Network” this morning, I was quickly and forcefully made to understand that a lot of people really don’t like this movie.  Not because of the acting, script, direction, themes (except maybe some suspicion—-mostly from extra-textual sources—-that Aaron Sorkin doesn’t like the internet), or anything really in the movie, but what is outside of it.  I’ve had people point out that they have problems with other things Sorkin’s written, or aspects of his biography that make them think he’s a prick.  But the main objection to “The Social Network” has been what I jokingly said was the “nuh-uh” critique. As in “Nuh-uh, it didn’t happen that way,” or, “Nuh-uh, Harvard isn’t really like that.”  (This is often aimed at the sequence at the party inside the final club, which I’m now 100% sure was a dream sequence, what the character of Mark Zuckerberg thinks happens at those parties, not how they actually are.)  I must admit, I’m more than a little surprised to see so many people object, seemingly out of nowhere, to the concept of poetic license.  I pointed out, repeatedly, that the movie is being compared to “Citizen Kane” because it’s essentially the same story—-that of a tycoon who captures the world by excelling like a motherfucker at the dominant media of his era, but who is a tragic figure because he can’t get his personal life in order.  William Randolph Hearst wasn’t particularly happy about “Citizen Kane” when it was released, presumably for many of the same reasons that people who sympathize with Mark Zuckerberg are pissed off about this movie, and also because Hearst was a bad man and a control freak in a way I suspect Zuckerberg (the real person) is not.

But the concept of poetic license when it comes to important historical figures and their place in works of fiction or poetry is nothing new.  No one thinks that Shakespeare’s histories are exact accounts of what went down, and only fundamentalists are silly enough to think Biblical stories about the kings of Israel or the life of Jesus are to be taken as a literal accounting of fact.  Using poetic license to use real people in fiction or fictionalized histories is super common nowadays.  Off the top of my head, the TV shows and movies I can think of that have done it are “Silence of the Lambs”, “Young Guns”, “Deadwood”, “Elizabeth”, “The Tudors”, “Homicide”, “Becoming Jane Austen”, and “The Hours”.  Also, David Bowie, Brian Eno, and Hunter S. Thompson are characters on “The Venture Brothers”.  I’ll bet you could come up with a few dozen more if you put your mind to it.  Sometimes the real life people’s names are changed, and sometimes they portrayed more directly as the real historical figure, but there’s no doubt that they are nonetheless a character in a story, and this isn’t a literal account of the truth.

And frankly, I prefer it that way.  Biopics are notorious for sucking.  Even the ones that are good by biopic standards—-like the recent Johnny Cash biopic film “Walk The Line”—-aren’t really that good by storytelling standards.  This is due, in no small part, to this need for accuracy.  Oh, biopic makers will roll a few important people into one person or fudge a few details to save time, but on the whole, they try to get the trajectory of a person’s life right.  And in doing so, they end up saying nothing more than, “This person did some important stuff while living the same kind of messed up life as most anyone.”  The problem with real people is that they’re not characters in stories.  They’re changeable, arbitrary, and way too multi-faceted, particularly for movies.  Life doesn’t have themes or plots.  It’s just…..life.  Even for important people. 

The purpose of storytelling is not to reflect life exactly how it is, but to draw out the sort of themes and ideas that disorganized, messy life doesn’t provide.  That, and to entertain you, which is no small thing, either.  If a story is inspired by real world events, the needs for coherence, time, and meaning—-as well as for entertainment—-require the storytellers to fictionalize events.  “Deadwood”, I think, is a really good example of how overly literal folks let themselves get way confused.  The characters were based on real people and often had their names and shared much of their biography. But they also diverged in dramatic ways, not the least of which was how they spoke in a stream of curse words that were mostly not used back then.  This is because the creators had a larger story to tell, one that couldn’t be shaped out of strict adherence to the literal truth.  But I think they managed to convey something more meaningful than a historical re-enactment soaked in literal truth would have.  Same story with “The Social Network”—-a movie about the real events exactly how they happened would end up being a story about nothing in particular.  Maybe about how it’s good to be the lucky bastard who got there first?  Some of the suggestions I’ve seen, particularly around making a movie about the critical importance of user-friendly minimalist design, sound like the most boring things you could ever make a movie about.  My concerns that this movie was going to be that kind of movie is why I was reluctant to see it.  Only the good reviews got me out the door.

Aaron Sorkin has made the fatal mistake of giving his critics ammunition by claiming what is a demonstrably fictional film is non-fiction.  That was stupid, but it doesn’t make this not a fictional story based on real events.  Mark Zuckerberg, of course, is still alive, and this, for some reason, making this whole thing more confusing, particularly if you let “what will the stupid people make of this?” color your perceptions.  The question, then, is why not do what Orson Welles did in “Citizen Kane”, and change the name of his character along with major biographical details?


Well, there’s a couple of reasons.  The first and most obvious is what I call the “eye-rolling problem”.  There is only one Facebook—-part of the story is showing how it beat out MySpace and Friendster, so you can’t really say that there’s not.  You could try to name it “Spacebook” if you want, but that’s actually going to be annoying to the point of distraction for an audience that probably uses the actual Facebook every single day.  For such a serious film, you can’t really risk having the audience spending all their time saying, “Is that supposed to fool us?!”  In the case of “Citizen Kane”, there were literally thousands of newspapers, so fictionalizing another is not so much a big deal. 

It’s also worth noting that the context in which a movie is released has changed drastically.  You could make a movie about “Spacebook” and change the names of the players, but the audience wouldn’t be even slightly discouraged from freaking out about where the facts have diverged from the movie.  And a large part of that is people are latching onto fact-checking because they object to what they perceive are criticisms of social networking (I thought the movie itself was neutral on the matter), to portrayals of geek culture as misogynist or socially awkward, the portrayal of Harvard, or maybe to portrayals of men that aren’t jocks in a less than flattering light.  (The movie is also critical of jocks, but I haven’t seen anyone angry about that.)  Seizing onto factual inaccuracies is a way to say, “This movie’s ideas are wrong, and I can use real life to prove it.”  So you haven’t bought yourself anything, but you’ve introduced the eye-rolling problem. 

So are the ideas wrong?  That’s the real question, not whether or not someone has a “right” to use poetic license to portray real life people in ways that they objectively are not.  My feeling is that yes, I think the movie had some interesting ideas that speak to deeper truths than whether or not the real world Mark Zuckerberg totally has a girlfriend.  The movie was, as Dana Stevens noted, about homosociality and how it works in our culture, and it used elements from this real world series of events to tell that story. That masculinity is often defined in our culture through competition with other men—-a competition that often reduces women to prizes and tokens—-shouldn’t really be that controversial of a point.  A fictionalized story that explores this theme is a great idea, and I think Sorkin and Fincher did a bang-up job of it.  Sure, in the real world, men are often torn between homosocial pressures and their desires for intimacy with women in far more complex ways than you get in a 2 hour plus change film.  In real life, the ability to get inside people’s heads during dreams would probably have a lot more varied uses than corporate intrigue. In real life, true friendships are deeper and more complex than that what you get from having a wild weekend with someone you just met.  In real life, Bonnie and Clyde were wankers and cold-blooded murderers, not anti-heroes channeling inchoate disgust with the system.  In real life, there’s not much you can learn about the human condition of ordinary people by looking at organized crime that is composed of a bunch of ruthless psychopaths.

I could go on, but you get the idea.  We create fiction and art in general precisely because it’s not real life.  We use it as a lens with which to view real life and deepen our meaning of it, sure.  But that doesn’t mean we should confuse art and life.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 06:06 PM • (109) Comments

Since I was one of the chief complainers in the previous thread, I should state for the record that I thought The Social Network was a fine film. I just that it’s no less fine without insisting that it’s “absolute non-fiction”.

Which is to say that we’re probably more or less in agreement.

Comment #1: Nobody  on  10/11  at  07:40 PM

It’s been interesting to see the absolute explosion of embarrassing pieces written about this movie claiming that it doesn’t get “the real Harvard,” as if the movie’s failures to match up to their individual interpretations of their college were failures of imagination rather than conscious artistic choices in a fictional work.

Comment #2: Dan Watson  on  10/11  at  07:41 PM

The use of metaphor, exaggeration, fabrication, and other alterations to factual reality make it impossible for me to enjoy modern forms of entertainment.

That’s why I enjoy the classics like Beowulf, The Epic of Gilgamesh, The Iliad, and The Odyssey, which are completely factual presentations of real events…

Comment #3: MikeEss  on  10/11  at  07:46 PM

I think you’re right that, given the cultural moment, it would’ve been silly to make a movie featuring a character named Mark Guckerberg and his website Spacebook.  But I don’t think it’s quite as simple as all this.  For one, I don’t know that Fincher or Sorkin have claimed the movie is “the true story.”  But a lot of the press around the movie credits the Ben Mezrich book as the source material, and Mezrich (a) claims that his stuff is true, and (b) tends to be lying, by my standards, about (a).  (I don’t know anything about this particular book and its truths, but it’s pretty clear that he wrote a popular novel about MIT blackjack players, based on interviews with the real guys, and then claimed it was “true,” with divergences from the truth that I think are pretty much unacceptable in a book that purports to be nonfiction.  In movies, of course, if its not a documentary we already come to it with a presumption that stuff will be fictionalized for our benefit, one reason being that you don’t have as much time as you do in a book to deal with truthful messiness.)

I also think the cultural moment of Facebook and, somewhat more anonymously, Zuckerberg, makes it a weird target of this kind of apparent storytelling.  Given that this stuff is happening right now, and that the film is serious in tone, I don’t think it’s silly to say that an audience member should fairly expect the film to be “accurate” in some broad sense.  If it’s a cultural critique of a pervasively misogynistic subculture that isn’t, actually, pervasively misogynistic (I don’t know either way), that strikes me as a strange thing to do.  Because of the same uniqueness, it’s hard to get away from the idea that the fictional Zuckerberg is supposed to represent the real guy, whereas if I made a movie about an aging and dilapidated rock god and superficially based his circumstances on Mick Jagger, I still wouldn’t be stuck with the idea that I was making a movie about the real literal Mick Jagger, because there are lots of aging rock gods and I would be presumably dealing with stuff that’s generally applicable to any of them, whether or not the real Jagger* was an accurate model.  I can’t think of a good hypothetical parallel to the Facebook thing, but I guess I’d say it seems (if the critiques are accurate re: the movie’s inaccuracy on the attitude of Zuckerberg towards women) like Sorkin came in with a pre-loaded message he wanted to illustrate, and found this real guy a convenient frame for it.

* which, using Jagger-not-Jagger, works because he’s suitable as a kind of amorphous icon.  The historical figures on Deadwood are either totally obscure - no one ever heard of Al Swearengen or even Sheriff Bullock - or outsizedly iconic, like Wild Bill Hickock.  I’m not sure who the real characters are supposed to be in Silence of the Lambs - I know some of the FBI characters are “based” on real people, but I always take that to mean “the author used his impression of real people” as opposed to “these are biographically the same individuals as the real world people who inspired them.”  And, in the so iconic he’s obscured by all the fictional portrayals category, Ed Gein is the fountainhead for 75% of all fictional serial killers, including Buffalo Bill, but Bill isn’t Gein in remotely the way that Zuckerberg is Zuckerberg.  Zuckerberg isn’t an iconic example of any particular type, so far as I’m aware.

Comment #4: medrawt  on  10/11  at  07:51 PM

The problem here, as I stated on the other thread, that the biopic attempts to get dramatic weight from pretending it’s a real story that happened to real people rather than a fantasy that just happens to use historical figures as props. If you take poetic license to tell a story about ___, then how the screenwriter/author did so is fair game for criticism.

Even if you present the thing as “a fantasy about ___,” I think there’s more than enough fair ground to criticize poetic license when you’re talking about historical figures. Becoming Jane Austen ignores an interesting story in order to present a banal one. Amadeus perpetuates a narrative that was posthumously created by German and Austrian nationalists. Night and Day protests a bit too much that its subject is heterosexual. We can criticize the historical presentation of most westerns for dramatically short-changing women, Native Americans, and others. We can say that a musical such as West Side Story might be better staged with half the songs written in Spanish and without the use of brownface.

Note that criticism doesn’t mean, “this work is bad, and you should feel bad for watching it.” It means, “this is an interesting facet of the work that’s worthy of discussion.” But let’s be blunt here. With a handful of exceptions, of which The Social Network might be one, biopics are crap as fiction and crap as biography. And there’s a whopping false dichotomy at hand here between art and biography.

Comment #5: CBrachyrhynchos  on  10/11  at  07:55 PM

As the Statler Brothers once said to Sorkin, you can’t have your Kate and Edith too.

Comment #6: norbizness  on  10/11  at  07:57 PM

@3: The problem is that most of the modern biopics don’t provide clear signals that they should be taken metaphorically rather than biographically. All That Jazz uses musical inserts and dream sequences. I’m Not There uses a half-dozen different actors for the protagonists. And Shakespeare in Love uses a ridiculous metafictional rom-com premise.

Instead, what you get in most cases is extremely stodgy “dramatization of real events” cinematography and staging with a lot of off-screen gabble gabble about historical authenticity. Capote and Cadillac Records pop to mind as films that play it straight without clearly communicating that we’re getting caricatures of the historical figures involved.

Comment #7: CBrachyrhynchos  on  10/11  at  08:08 PM

I agree that you should allow for poetic license, but the deviations from reality are interesting in themselves.  The Johnny Cash of the movie “Walk The Line” didn’t get addicted to painkillers after an ostrich attack or kill a bunch of endangered condors in a forest fire.  It isn’t that there wasn’t enough time in the movie so much as it would detract from the narrative arc that the writer and director wanted to bring across.

Comment #8: lemmy caution  on  10/11  at  08:11 PM

And a question I have, is whether we’re going to be having a very different conversation if Nowhere Boy gives us hagiography of the violently homophobic and wife-abusing John Lennon?

Comment #9: CBrachyrhynchos  on  10/11  at  08:25 PM

This speaks to a larger issue, which is the functional illiteracy of the general American movie-going public. Raised on dumbed down storytelling, trivia masquerading as theme and the general lowered expectations of consumer-driven media, most people don’t know what poetic license is. They wouldn’t know pathetic fallacy if it bit them on the ass and think metaphors are a highbrow, elitist conspiracy to give dumb poeple low self esteem.

If you need a warning label to tell you a movie may not be 100% factual and the lack of one sends you into fits of moral outrage, the problem lies not with the writers or creators of that movie, but with you.

Comment #10: Keith  on  10/11  at  08:54 PM

It’s been interesting to see the absolute explosion of embarrassing pieces written about this movie claiming that it doesn’t get “the real Harvard,”

Especially since the movie shows almost exactly what Harvard is really like, even if many Harvard students are too privileged to notice.

Comment #11: BABH  on  10/11  at  08:57 PM

And for historical perspective, a lot of readers were pissed at Dumas for fudging the historical facts in The Three Musketeers. Richelieu wasn’t that big of a dick, Buckingham wasn’t that much of a dandy and while the musketeers were all based on real people, they lived across two centuries. Not only were they not best friends, they never even met.

Comment #12: Keith  on  10/11  at  08:59 PM

John Lennon was violently homophobic?  I would take that term to mean he committed acts of violence against homosexuals?  Is this correct?  And he abused his wife?  I have never heard about any of this.

Comment #13: JennyLI  on  10/11  at  08:59 PM

This is what the Wiki entry on John Lennon says about his relationship with his first wife, Cynthia:

She began to accompany him to Quarrymen gigs; later, upset to be parted from him during the Beatles’ Hamburg residencies, she travelled to Germany to be with him. Lennon, jealous by nature, eventually grew possessive and mistrustful in the relationship and often terrified her with his anger and physical violence.[99]

Sounds like abuse to me.

Comment #14: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  10/11  at  09:14 PM

Keith -

But why can’t I turn that around and say something like:

“This speaks to a larger issue, which is the functional simplicity of the general American movie-going public.  Raised on dumbed down storytelling, trivia masquerading as theme and the general lowered expectations of consumer-driven media, most people can’t handle entertainment that doesn’t track simply sketched plot arcs and highly schematized characters.”

I freely admit to being kind of a curmudgeon not just about fictionalized versions of factual events but also about adaptations from one medium to another; when the adaptor says something like “well we had to change *x* to make the story work as a movie,” my first instinct is usually to say “what do you mean ‘had’?  There was no existential requirement that this movie get made.”  In terms of the adaptation of fact to fiction - and the particular kind of fiction that a movie like this entails, which in literary terms is basically contemporaneous historical fiction (in a way that Citizen Kane, however transparent the Hearst influence, was not), I think it’s necessary to draw a distinction between the kind of changes that are literally necessary to make real events happen in two hours of screen time, the kind of changes that are practically necessary to make the inherent complexities of real life intelligible in two hours of screen time (which generally lead to composite characters and compressed timelines), and the alterations of basic fact that are “necessary” to make a story palatable to the ever-second-guessed “audience” - i.e., the sort of thing that makes me go “but there wasn’t any REASON to change that stuff!”  What I find interesting about the discussion of The Social Network is the idea that the filmmakers imposed an ideological/thematic change onto contemporary events.  (Again, this line of thought is predicated on the idea that people are being accurate when they say that Zuckerberg et al. aren’t misogynists in the way presented, that women had a bigger role in the founding and current running of Facebook than represented, etc.)  This is something that authors of historical fiction do all the time, but (a) this is a contemporary story, and (b) I still think there’s something weird about this.

Going back to Deadwood (and Hearsts), the real George Hearst wasn’t much like the one David Milch thought up, but Milch was using Hearst as an iconic figure - the avatar of unbridled capitalism - and maybe more importantly the story wasn’t really about Hearst; he was a more or less peripheral figure who eventually came into close conflict with the actual protagonists.  A movie where the main character was George Hearst that thematically focused on Oedipal lust (just to pick something unlikely), and perhaps advanced the theory that unbridled capitalism of the kind exemplified by Hearst sprang from the lifelong frustration of a romantic impulse that could never be satisfied, would be kind of an odd duck, and odder for being specifically about Hearst - a real guy with no particular documented Oedipal compulsions that I’m aware of - than a generic Hearst-like capitalist.

Comment #15: medrawt  on  10/11  at  09:23 PM

It’s a movie for god’s sake.

Even documentaries don’t tell “the complete factual truth”, because they are edited from hundreds/thousands of hours of footage down to an hour or two.  During that process all sorts of decisions are made by the filmmaker/editor, each of which can/does shade the end result, emphasizing one thing over some other thing.

If there were ten witnesses to some real-life event, and they are all asked to describe what happened, (as long as they didn’t collude to fix their story) they will all tell a different tale.

Human experiences are never objective.  They are all subjective, filtered through our biases and experiences.  Putting them in the form of a movie or TV show just makes fidelity to reality that much worse.  Duh…

Comment #16: MikeEss  on  10/11  at  09:24 PM

AnglScarlett: here‘s some info about John Lennon. There’s a quote from one of his interviews:
“I used to be cruel to my woman, and physically — any woman.  I was a hitter.  I couldn’t express myself and I hit.  I fought men and I hit women . . . I am a violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence.  I will have to be a lot older before I can face in public how I treated women as a youngster.”
I don’t know about homophobia because I’m just not a Beatles fan, and the only things I know about them are things that I see discussed (I mean, I don’t go out of my way to search info about them.)

Comment #17: colorlessblue  on  10/11  at  09:27 PM

I’m sure it was a mistake to set it based on a real person, but that wasn’t, at least, *my* complaint—-I would have had a problem with it even if it *were* based around more fictionalized characters.  This is my complaint:

It made entrepreneurial success in the tech world contingent on rather than despite misogyny, even when that’s demonstrably not true.

I mean, it makes me wonder whether they would make a movie about Google—-maybe in some fictionalized universe where it is called “Flooble” or somethng—-and neglect to cast someone as Marissa Mayer or equivalent, like “Clarissa Speyer”.  I would hardly have objected if they had merely depicted a culture with a lot of misogyny in it.  That would be true to life.  But it’s clear that the very point that Aaron Sorkin was making was that loser misogynistic cobaggery was central to how these people reach a point where they can be suing each other over billions.

Now why is this bad?  It’s bad because it’s part of a larger and longstanding cultural/media trend portraying exactly that.  And what does that mean?  We know that one of the reasons for underrepresentation of women in CS professions is, essentially, cultural overstatement of the negative aspects of CS culture.  By overstating the case, it reinforces the belief among losers that CS is a safe place for them to safely loserish, and it deters women otherwise inclined from getting to the profession in the first place.  A vicious cycle.

And lastly, it gives the rest of the culture an excuse to look away from all of this, and say that “Well, you may have gotten rich, but you’re *still* a loser nerd who can’t get laid, sucker.” 

(I did like their casting of the Winklevi though; they have movie-star looks in real life.  They could have played themselves!)

Comment #18: Mandos  on  10/11  at  09:43 PM

Re: Lennon, there’s also the song “Getting Better” with the lyric “I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her, and kept her apart from the things that she loved.”

Comment #19: Dan Watson  on  10/11  at  09:49 PM

AnglScarlett:

John Lennon was violently homophobic? I would take that term to mean he committed acts of violence against homosexuals? Is this correct? And he abused his wife? I have never heard about any of this.

The popular history of the Beatles according to conventional wisdom is largely a whitewash. Track down a copy of the Bob Spitz band-biography for a more nuanced story.

Comment #20: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  10/11  at  09:51 PM

This movie made me realize I’m a bit of a hypocrite for hating on Mel Gibson for his historical fictionalizations. To keep the status quo I’ll have to find other reasons to hate on Gibson; let’s see, googling him, and ...oh god!

Comment #21: Hari Narayan Singh Khalsa  on  10/11  at  09:55 PM

From the comments to the Geek Feminism article I posted on the previous thread:

In the beginning, Zuckerberg’s girlfriend Erica tells him (paraphrased), “You will go on in life thinking that girls are rejecting you because you are a nerd. This won’t be true. They will reject you because you are an asshole.” We know from this that Sorkin might have intended to separate being a geek from being an asshole, but then the rest of the movie seems to suggest that geeks are necessarily assholes, probably coming from Sorkin’s implicit anti-geek bias.

Exactly! See, the message in the beginning was a good one (even if we take Mark as purely fiction): His problem is that he is an asshole, not that he is a nerd.  But then the entire movie decides to tell us that he is an asshole *because* he is a nerd, and that he is successful *because* he is an asshole.  How enlightened a message about misogyny is that?

Furthermore (from the same comment):

Zuckerberg makes references to PHP, wget, emacs, and Perl scripts. He pluralizes “Winklevoss” as “Winklevi”. In my mind, I was cheering for the emacs name-drop, but then I remembered that Zuckerberg was the sexist, and I wasn’t supposed to identify with him. This happened a lot throughout the movie. There is no one else to identify with except the geeks (Zuckerberg and Sean Parker), since I really can’t identify with the wealthy jocks or the economics major who wants to put ads, which would definitely kill the whole project.

If we take the perspective that the movie is critical of Zuckerberg, then a lot of the ‘criticisms’ are reinforcing stereotypes about (male) geeks being socially inept and unsuccessful with women. I really don’t think it’s productive to dehumanize people who happen to be introverted and socially awkward, since being introverted and socially awkward has nothing to do with misogyny. Geek misogyny is not a result of women being an “advanced social skill”. I think the movie conflates the two, which helps nothing.

In this context, it’s also an excuse for the rest of the non-geek culture to sneer and absolve themselves.

Comment #22: Mandos  on  10/11  at  09:56 PM

I’m sure it was a mistake to set it based on a real person, but that wasn’t, at least, *my* complaint—-I would have had a problem with it even if it *were* based around more fictionalized characters.  This is my complaint:
It made entrepreneurial success in the tech world contingent on rather than despite misogyny, even when that’s demonstrably not true.

And you think Sorkin approves?

Hm.

Comment #23: gwangung  on  10/11  at  09:59 PM

Yeah, but does all the fiction have to be so misogynistic?  Is it too much to ask to have women exist as equals?  Especially when they do exist in real life?

Comment #24: Crissa  on  10/11  at  10:00 PM

John Lennon was violently homophobic?

He beat up a club owner who suggested that Lennon had a sexual relationship with Brian Epstein. And his comments regarding Mick Jagger in interviews during the Beatles breakup are considerably less than enlightened.

He’s still something of a musical hero to me. But I take them warts and all.

Comment #25: CBrachyrhynchos  on  10/11  at  10:01 PM

And you think Sorkin approves?

Of course not: read it again.  He set up a strawman, and he used the movie to knock down that strawman, leaving the impression in the minds of the viewer that the strawman of which he, of course, disapproves is true.

I may not have been clear: Aaron Sorkin is telling us that entrepreneurial success is a positive result of misogyny.  He is saying that this is true, and then tut-tutting about it.  With a brilliant script, of course.

Comment #26: Mandos  on  10/11  at  10:02 PM

In the beginning, Zuckerberg’s girlfriend Erica tells him (paraphrased), “You will go on in life thinking that girls are rejecting you because you are a nerd. This won’t be true. They will reject you because you are an asshole.” We know from this that Sorkin might have intended to separate being a geek from being an asshole, but then the rest of the movie seems to suggest that geeks are necessarily assholes, probably coming from Sorkin’s implicit anti-geek bias.

Since I am told Sorkin has created other geek characters that have no such problem with women, I would conclude that this original poster may be going too far.

Comment #27: gwangung  on  10/11  at  10:03 PM

He set up a strawman, and he used the movie to knock down that strawman, leaving the impression in the minds of the viewer that the strawman of which he, of course, disapproves is true.

I may not have been clear: Aaron Sorkin is telling us that entrepreneurial success is a positive result of misogyny.

And you’re saying that entrepreneurial success cannot be a result of misogyny?

I’m having trouble parsing your argument here.

Comment #28: gwangung  on  10/11  at  10:05 PM

I’m not familiar with Sorkin’s work beyond the first 2-3 seasons of the West Wing.  If he created other dramas with non-loser successful geeks male and female with exceptionally realistic backgrounds the way it is in The Social Network, good on him, I guess.  I can only tell you what I saw.

Comment #29: Mandos  on  10/11  at  10:07 PM

And you’re saying that entrepreneurial success cannot be a result of misogyny?

I’m having trouble parsing your argument here.

I think you’d have a hard time making the case when you look at the history of successful tech companies that deliberately excluding and attacking women both inside the organization and out leads to massive commercial success, aside from the porn industry.  In this case, Aaron Sorkin makes it clear that he is making a General Comment On CS Nerd Culture by exposing the perfidy of Mark Zuckerberg (or Clark Whateverberg) and Sean Parker, especially when he exploits all the stereotypes.

Comment #30: Mandos  on  10/11  at  10:10 PM

  I can only tell you what I saw.

We all can only conclude, based on what we saw. But I think you do a real disservice, both to the author and to the work itself, by trying to make it say something you want it to say, as opposed to what the work itself is saying. And I see very large tendencies of that in the posts you’ve made. Perhaps you can clarify?

Comment #31: gwangung  on  10/11  at  10:14 PM

In this case, Aaron Sorkin makes it clear that he is making a General Comment On CS Nerd Culture by exposing the perfidy of Mark Zuckerberg (or Clark Whateverberg) and Sean Parker, especially when he exploits all the stereotypes.

Well, given that he has done more rounded “nerd” characters elsewhere, you’re criticism is that Sorkin HAD to include counter-examples within the same work? Because it seems clear that this was NOT a general comment, given that.

Or are you getting into Stupid Viewer territory here?

Comment #32: gwangung  on  10/11  at  10:18 PM

And, by the way…

In the beginning, Zuckerberg’s girlfriend Erica tells him (paraphrased), “You will go on in life thinking that girls are rejecting you because you are a nerd. This won’t be true. They will reject you because you are an asshole.”

...can you tell me why this isn’t a clear example of the protagonist ignoring the warnings of fate and thus proving Erica to be correct?

Comment #33: gwangung  on  10/11  at  10:21 PM

We all can only conclude, based on what we saw. But I think you do a real disservice, both to the author and to the work itself, by trying to make it say something you want it to say, as opposed to what the work itself is saying. And I see very large tendencies of that in the posts you’ve made. Perhaps you can clarify?

This is what the movie is saying: the main character’s inability to relate to women leads him to construct a popular web site out of sheer spite, and it was the inability of himself and his friends to see women as anything but playthings and trophies that eventually leads them to commercial success.  At the very end, he has learnt nothing (constantly refreshing Erica’s profile page) and *normal* women still hate him and his friends, and certainly they pity him condescendingly.

Never mind that this only bears passing relation to what has actually happened.  It bears passing relation to what happens in tech in general.  CS has far more than its share of loser men who wear their resentment of women on their sleeves.  We know this.  But building a popular web site and making billions is a massively collaborative exercise that requires people who at least pay lip service to the comfort of other people—-Facebook included.  By and large, most really *successful* people in CS believe that the absence of women is a handicap, not a driver of innovation. 

But the movie was clearly a “Zeitgeist” movie, and the Zeitgeist it presented was that the tech world is full of loser nerds who are successful because they hate women.

Comment #34: Mandos  on  10/11  at  10:25 PM

...can you tell me why this isn’t a clear example of the protagonist ignoring the warnings of fate and thus proving Erica to be correct?

At no point in the film was there ever an example of a contrasting male nerd taking a woman of any sort seriously, except for the lawyer lady who condescends to him when it’s all over.  His incapacity with women, on the other hand, was clearly connected to geek stereotypes of personality defect stemming from affinity for computers.  We have no basis in the movie to support Erica’s implication that he could be a nerd without also being an asshole, or that any of the nerd characters could be nerds without being assholes.

Comment #35: Mandos  on  10/11  at  10:29 PM

Very little effective programming actually happens among people who are constantly being jerks to each other.  There are a few small projects such as drivers for specific kinds of hardware that seem to attract monomaniacal introverts.  You cannot build a web browser that way.  Not one that people will use.  The technology in the movie was at least realistic; the people were not, fictionalized or otherwise.

Comment #36: Mandos  on  10/11  at  10:36 PM

No comment on “Social Network,” which I haven’t seen, but I’m less sanguine than Amanda about the abuse of historical truth. Her analysis of storytelling and assumption of poetic license is a good way to approach historical films, but it seems overly sophisticated, subtle, and generous compared to how I think most people approach them. I have to ask where we draw the line between poetic license and irresponsibility.

Historical movies typically sell themselves as “based on a true story.” It’s obvious they want the audience to believe the events on screen really happened, not to view the whole thing as an artistic experiment guided by ideals of poetic license that require several paragraphs to explain. It’s not surprising that viewers will thus bestow the film with some authority.

“The Deer Hunter” is not based on real-life people and events, and I don’t think the filmmakers argued it was historically accurate. Its depiction of Vietnam POWs forced to play Russian Roulette may also work as a smart, literate use of symbolism. But my brother angrily refused to believe it was just an invention of the filmmakers, once confronted by critiques of the film’s injection of this device (which wasn’t rooted in history). Fiction became fact for him.

When films go further and claim to be recounting real events, yet blatantly rewrite them, it’s an outright crime. “The Untouchables” tells its audience that Elliot Ness threw Frank Nitti off a roof to his death during Prohibition, whereas Nitti actually shot himself in 1943. Whether or not you see anything poetic about this, it’s lying to people nonetheless.

My default treatment of any historical film is to assume that none of it is necessarily true. But I don’t want to celebrate playing fast and loose with history, because misinforming people is not a good thing.

Comment #37: Panda don (from woods of Oxford)  on  10/11  at  10:45 PM

I’m all in favor of poetic license, but I also think it’s important for historians to point out the ways in which art diverges from life—just for the sake of preserving the historical record for those who care to look it up. People will tend to remember the narrative of the movie as if it were the real thing, especially if they’re told that the story is a truthy one.

Comment #38: Lindsay Beyerstein  on  10/11  at  10:48 PM

Panda don -

I don’t think you need to go to the audience reaction, which invites the kind of “hey, it’s not the artist’s responsibility if people are credulous and unsophisticated” responses seen above.  (Which I don’t entirely agree with, but Fincher’s Fight Club is a pretty good example of a movie where I’m incredulous that so many of the people who criticized it did so on the basis that whether or not Tyler Durden was meant to be heroic the “audience” would inevitably see him that way because he was played by Brad Pitt, and was charismatic and funny.)

It’s not like these stories are written by thoughtless automatons; they’re artistic creations, and the choices made are choices made by an artist, for whatever combination of expedience and potency.  I imagine a screenwriter could say that he had Ness kill Nitti because it satisfied the audience’s need to see violent recompense for the murder of Connery’s character, but why allow the artistic presumption that such a need ought to be filled?  I don’t think it takes away from The Untouchables being a satisfying movie on its own merits, but it puts the capstone on Connery’s rhetoric about “the Chicago way,” when the movie could just as easily have been about a principled man overcoming the idea that only violence could defeat violence.  (Again, they got to Capone through his accountant.)  So why make one artistic choice about the other?  I’ll admit that in the case of The Social Network a lot of my skepticism comes from my attitude towards Sorkin who IMO turned out some pretty pathetic work the last time I saw him tackle issues like nerds, the internet, and feminism.  In his defense, he was high and single handedly writing 22 hours of television a year at the time, so maybe he wasn’t in the best frame of mind.

Comment #39: medrawt  on  10/11  at  10:59 PM

Response to #6; I somehow read “Statler Brothers” as “Waldorf and Statler” and was very disappointed not to see muppets.

The only reason I don’t want to see the film is because all the characters seem like jerks in the trailers, and I don’t really want to watch jerks doing stuff.

As to Sorkin having an anti-geek bias, I’ve watched all of West Wing, I think I’ve seen all of Sports Night, and certainly all of Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip. He has written multiple nerd characters, both male and female, who are not jerks and don’t have trouble interacting with other humans beyond what’s normal.

Comment #40: BenYitzhak  on  10/11  at  11:08 PM

As to Sorkin having an anti-geek bias, I’ve watched all of West Wing, I think I’ve seen all of Sports Night, and certainly all of Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip. He has written multiple nerd characters, both male and female, who are not jerks and don’t have trouble interacting with other humans beyond what’s normal.

Well, if so, that just makes it even worse.  He could have portrayed a world in which Erica’s assertion was demonstrably true, allegedly he has done so before, but he didn’t for dramatic reasons.

Comment #41: Mandos  on  10/11  at  11:15 PM

Apparently most of Elliott Ness’s career as a crime fighter was the invention of cinematographers. Jonathan Eig’s new biography of Al Capone reveals that Ness was a complete incompetent.

Comment #42: Lindsay Beyerstein  on  10/11  at  11:22 PM

I’ll admit that I’m super fucking excited about an upcoming movie with Sacha Baron Cohen as Freddie Mercury. I’m not sure if its solely a biopic about him or Queen.

Comment #43: whiskeytangofoxtrot  on  10/11  at  11:25 PM

We already have a genre in which authors and directors can explore various literary themes within a historical setting: it’s called “historical fiction.” A roman à clef is also an acceptable framework for a fictionalization.

Call me an artistic wet blanket, but biographicals should adhere closely to what actually happened. It’s an artistic failing when a director (it seems movies are the worst about this) fudges what happened because he’s interested in exploring some kind of thematic issue he deems more worthy.

I enjoyed the movie The Departed quite a bit. And then I watched the original movie it was based on, the Hong Kong movie Infernal Affairs. It was fairly jarring to realize that Martin Scorsese was much more willing and able to adhere closely to the source text of Infernal Affairs when making The Departed than most directors are ever willing to do when it comes to history.

If Aaron Sorkin wants to make a film about how misogyny is the furnace in which successful tech companies are forged, then he should do that: there’s no reason for him to fictionalize the story of the founding of Facebook as the framework for him to make his argument.

Comment #44: Tyro  on  10/11  at  11:46 PM

Re: Lennon, there’s also the song “Getting Better” with the lyric “I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her, and kept her apart from the things that she loved.”
Comment #19: myfavoriteboxer on 10/11 at 04:49 PM

There is a certain song on Rubber Soul no one has mentioned. Perhaps for good reasons of not wanting to be triggering, so I refer to it so elliptically. But it makes the case even more starkly than Lennon’s later apologies.

Re homophobia—who wrote Prick Up Your Ears? Because that movie certainly makes some strong hints as to the range of Lennon’s sexuality. Which is no contradiction with him being, or having been when young, uptight about getting a public reputation about it!

Comment #45: Mark Foxwell  on  10/11  at  11:59 PM

There’s a good half dozen books that give first hand witness to Lennon’s brutal violence towards women and those who chose to opine about his alleged relationship with Brian Epstein. Allan Williams’ “The Man Who Sold the Beatles” comes readily to mind. Lennon constantly tortured Epstein about his homosexuality, suggesting Epstein call his book about his role in the Beatles’ rise “Queer Jew”.

I always loved the Beatles, and John Lennon, warts and all, as somebody else here said. But the “brand” called John Lennon is most probably not close to the real person called John Lennon. There’s also a bunch of books by people close to their relationship who detail Lennon’s abuse of Ono when they were giving interviews talking about Lennon baking bread and being the house-husband.

Sure. Dozens of people are lying about Lennon because they’re jealous.

Comment #46: I Heart Puppies  on  10/12  at  12:19 AM

There is a certain song on Rubber Soul no one has mentioned. Perhaps for good reasons of not wanting to be triggering, so I refer to it so elliptically. But it makes the case even more starkly than Lennon’s later apologies.

At first i was like “WTF, Foxwell - Norwegian Wood?  What?”

Then I searched.  Wooooah, Nelly!.

We bow to your superior knowledge, squirmifying as it may be.

Comment #47: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  10/12  at  12:20 AM

Let this be a sermon, I mean everything I said;
Baby I’m determined, and I’d rather see you dead

You better run for your life if you can, little girl,
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man, that’s the end, little girl

Poet Emiritus of Pandagon.net

Comment #48: I Heart Puppies  on  10/12  at  12:30 AM

“And he abused his wife?  I have never heard about any of this.”

“I used to be crewel to my women
I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved
Man I was mean
But Im changing my scene
And I’m doing the best that I can”

Comment #49: jefft452  on  10/12  at  12:41 AM

Amanda, did you see the documentary “Wordplay”?  Or any documentary?  Ever?  This is the first post of yours I’ve ever read that made no sense to me.  I don’t give a shit about any biopic, but to dismiss real life and real people as incapable of being entertaining is just crazy.  I know docs are laden with falsehoods, also, but Jesus H. Christ, this is a weird fuckin’ post, to me.  No disrespect intended, but holy shit, y’know?

Comment #50: entrails  on  10/12  at  12:42 AM

Hearst never owned a sled named “Rosebud,” but according to Gore Vidal in the New York Review the word may have had significance to Hearst which Welles was aware of.  “...the significance of Rosebud, if that indeed was Hearst’s private name for Marion’s tender button, goes a long way toward explaining Hearst’s fury at Orson Welles’s Citizen Kane, whose co-author, the alcoholic wit, Herman Mankiewicz, was often in attendance at the Hearst court, whose Versailles was San Simeon, whose Marly was Santa Monica.”

Welles always gave Mankiewicz the credit for “Rosebud” in the film. 

The story of the making and release of Citizen Kane is fascinating.  There is a lot of information on Wellsnet.  http://www.wellesnet.com/?cat=21

It may be that Mark Zuckerberg will have the kind of lasting historical interest that Hearst had, but that remains to be seen.  Hearst, among other things, drummed up the fever that got us into the Spanish American war, and was blamed by Teddy Roosevelt for the assassination of President McKinley.  Facebook hasn’t managed to start any wars yet.

Bio-pics aren’t expected to be realistic.  I didn’t really like Deadwood, but not because of it’s historical inaccuracies.  The Tudors had a too think actor playing Henry VIII, which made my willing suspension of disbelief to hard to attain, although I enjoyed the plot lines.  I knew a little more about Tudor England than I do about Deadwood in 1876, so the inaccuracy jarred me more when it happened.  I knew that Hickok was killed by a shot to the back of the head while holding aces and eights, but I’d never heard any of the names of the major characters.  The Tudors had Henry’s sisters married to the wrong Kings, among other things, because they needed Charles Brandon married to Margret rather than Mary to advance the plot line.  I understood why they did it, but it was still irritating.

I know little enough abuot the life of Mark Zuckerberg that it would take a pretty jarring historical substitution to annoy me, like having Richard Nixon still president, or having Zuckerberg be one of the first men to set foot on the moon.  I know a lot more about Hearst than I did when I first read Amanda’s post this afternoon, but I don’t remember enough about Citizen Kane to compare his real life with Welles film.

Comment #51: G Porgey  on  10/12  at  12:48 AM

I have no particular dog in this fight: I’m a fan of neither Zuckerberg nor Harvard.  But waving off the movie’s inaccuracies—or, more accurately, slanders—as poetic license, or comparing it to something like Citizen Kane, is too pat.

I didn’t know anything in particular about the accuracy of the movie until after I saw it; going in, and watching it, I assumed it was a more-or-less straight biopic.  This isn’t because I’m stupid; it’s because Zuckerberg (and most of the other main characters) are real people who are very much still alive.  This means they can sue for defamation, which this movie most definitely contains, especially against Zuckerberg.  I’m frankly a little shocked that the producers green-lighted a movie that took such offensive liberties with the story of a live person who has the financial wherewithal to sue a Hollywood studio.  Since Zuckerberg seems to be taking the high road and ignoring the movie, it looks like they’ll get away with it.  But it was a hell of a risk to take.  (And no, the fact that Zuckerberg is almost certainly a “public figure” for First Amendment purposes doesn’t mean he can’t sue for defamation; it just means he’d have to prove that Sorkin and Fincher knew they were making stuff up).

I also find the idea of poetic license to be just . . . odd here.  Zuckeberg’s life just doesn’t present the kind of operatic tragedy that you see in something like Citizen Kane, or Shakespeare, because the dude is only 25 years old.  He just isn’t very interesting, and neither is his life as such; the fact that he invented Facebook is.  And it’s just strange to make a movie about how a real person invented a real internet service and then fabricate significant portions of what happened.  Especially when there is nothing—NOTHING—in the movie to suggest that events are being fabricated or exaggerated.

I get the idea of fictionalized dramatizations of real events, I do.  I enjoyed 24 Hour Party People without being misled about the fact that Tony Wilson saw a vision of himself as an angel the morning after Factory Records collapsed.  That movie was straight with its audience about the fact that not everything being portrayed was accurate.  The Social Network wasn’t.

Comment #52: vlad  on  10/12  at  12:49 AM

I could go on, but you get the idea.  We create fiction and art in general precisely because it’s not real life.  We use it as a lens with which to view real life and deepen our meaning of it, sure.  But that doesn’t mean we should confuse art and life.

But was this movie clearly presented as fiction?  Who is confusing art and life here?

I have no problem with creating a movie called “The Social Network” which explores the misogyny of a brilliant but misguided fictional young man who creates a popular Internet site to get back at his ex.  I do have a problem with creating a movie called “The Social Network” which purports to be the essentially true story of the founding of Facebook but instead is apparently used to beat the audience over the head about how bad misogyny is by “fictionalizing” events in order to emphasize their point.  That’s called “bait and switch” and is generally considered bad practice. 

Critics called the WWII biopic “Patton” a great antiwar movie because it presented war (and Patton’s glorification of it) in very stark and unflinching terms, and that indeed might be a moral one can take away from that movie; but it never used “fictionalized” events to make war seem even more wasteful and inhumane than it really is, and that moral was never the obvious focus of the story.  In contrast, the weakest sequence in the completely fictional “Avatar” is where the inevitable destruction of the primeval forest by the rapacious humans finally catches up with our hero- you can almost feel the plot-hammer being wielded to beat the message into you as you watch.

It’s just bad practice in general to “fictionalize” historical events in order to make a point.  I consider “Pirates of Silicon Valley” (billed as “the true story of the battle to create the computer age”) a weaker film than Michael Cringely’s documentary “Triumph of the Nerds” for precisely this reason.

Comment #53: liberalrob  on  10/12  at  12:55 AM

Anyone who expects truth in anything but a scholarly biography is expecting an awful lot. Biographies are stories with a purpose. How seriously do you take Suetonius who was grinding a axe for the weakened senatorial class? How accurate was Shakespeare, the noted Tudor apologist?

It sounds like Sorkin made a movie about a misogynist asshole who founded a major social website. Was Zuckerberg ever a misogynist asshole? Is he still one? Was his misogyny the impetus behind his success? Maybe it was his impotence, a result of his frigid mother? Oops, that’s for the 1950s remake. At least we’ve gotten past that brand of misogyny, for the time being at least.

I used to watch Westerns. Then there were the revisionist Westerns with smelly horses and noble savages. If I actually want to know more about life in those frontier towns, there are tons of well written books on them and lots of contemporary sources I can peruse. If I want a good story that captures a certain element of that era, I’ll read or watch one of the Great Westerns. Sure, I’ll be learning more about 1950s idealism or 1960s disillusion or 1990s exaggeration. but for entertainment purposes I’ll go for a lower truth over a higher one any day.

Comment #54: Kaleberg  on  10/12  at  01:04 AM

“I freely admit to being kind of a curmudgeon not just about fictionalized versions of factual events but also about adaptations from one medium to another;.”

Oh god yes!
Col. Dax in Cobb’s “Paths to Glory” felt bad about the oblivious injustice that was being done, but as long as he could ease his conscience by passing the buck onto his underlings he wasn’t about stop brown nosing long enough to do anything about it.  It was the major point of the book!
But in the movie Kirk Douglas is a heroic defender of truth and justice, personally acting as defense counsel at the court martial

And while we are at it, somebody tell Spielberg that it’s a story by fucking H G Wells, you don’t got to change it
If you want to tell another completly different story, don’t call it “War of the Worlds”

Comment #55: jefft452  on  10/12  at  01:06 AM

Entrails, biopics generally suck. There are a ton of terrific films that are based on real historical events/episodes from the lives of famous people (e.g., “Inherit the Wind,” about the Scopes Monkey trial, Clarence Darrow and William Jennings Bryan) but there are only a handful of first rate movies that tackle a famous person’s life in full, which to me is the distinctive attribute of a biopic. “Milk” and “Walk the Line” are the only two decent examples of biopics in recent memory, IMO.

The point is that trying to shoehorn a real life into a work of fiction is often more difficult than to make up a story for the screen. Good stories usually have beginnings, middles, and ends. They typically have a point to them. Real life isn’t always like that.

It can be especially difficult you’re committed to telling the literal truth about someone’s life. For one thing, it’s hard not to be formulaic if your genre commits you to telling the whole story of a life, as opposed to picking out one story that made that life extraordinary.

Even fascinating, famous people have a lot of banal details in their lives, just in virtue of being people. They’re born, they are children for a while, they fight with their parents, they often try to date and/or marry, they start out in their careers, their careers progress through various milestones, they may reproduce, they get old, they die. It takes a lot of creativity to make that arc feel fresh when you are bound by genre conventions to show the whole thing, especially when you can’t just invent characters or episodes to liven up the story. 

“Wordplay” is a bad counterexample because it’s a portrait of the competitive crossword subculture, not the story of any one person’s life. The director had virtually unlimited freedom about who and what to show.

Comment #56: Lindsay Beyerstein  on  10/12  at  01:17 AM

LIES! SLANDER! AND BALDERDASH! David Bowie is totally the head of a secret guild of super-villains and you are a SCOUNDREL and a FOOL to infer otherwise!

Comment #57: scrumby  on  10/12  at  01:27 AM

There’s absolutely zero indication in the work that the finals club party is a “dream sequence.” None whatsoever.

For what’s on screen to be something “subjective,” it’s no longer beaten into us with the screen going fuzzy, and harp strings in the background.

Perhaps compare the style of the way that sequence is shot to the way the rest of the movie is shot?

Comment #58: Dan Watson  on  10/12  at  02:45 AM

I was looking for a piece that spells out this disturbing truth (“Movies aren’t real”) and here it is… http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050101/EDITOR/40828002/1023

Hopefully it doesn’t ruin your life to read this…

Warning: What you are about to read may thrill you, may shock you, it may even… horrify you.

Here it is: Movies are not “real.” They’re movies—images on a screen orchestrated to express ideas and emotions. They are not “reality” (even documentaries are carefully constructed fictions); they are representations, myths, metaphors. Don’t even try to take them literally. They are not made to be viewed that way, and to do so may be hazardous to your mental health.

It’s silly how many moviegoers and critics insist upon making an artificial distinction between what is “real” and what is “unreal” in a movie – often at the expense of what the film itself is actually about. It’s as if, to them, the predominant idea behind any given picture boils down to nothing more than: Did It Really Happen Or Was It All In His/Her Head? Well, look at it this way: If it’s on the screen, it’s there for a reason – to convey something about character, story, theme. And that is all that matters.

Comment #59: Dan Watson  on  10/12  at  02:50 AM

For those of you interested in a more factual representation of the beginnings of Facebook, this piece in The New York Review of Books is a good one:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/feb/25/in-the-world-of-facebook/?pagination=false

Comment #60: NY Expat  on  10/12  at  03:52 AM

If you’re going to attempt to directly portray events that occurred and the exact people they happened to to tell a story with a social moral, you better get the factual points that demonstrate the moral right according to best understanding of facts, or else you are just using history as a crutch to tell a fictional tale with an ideological point, and no one ought to have license to do that on purpose.  If it didn’t really happen that way, then you don’t get to knowingly saying it while saying you’re telling a story based on events.  That’s not poetic license, that’s just making shit up and using “history” to pilfer credibility for it.  If you want to make shit up, go ahead make shit up.  Just call it make believe.  If you’re trying to make a point of some kind about events that occurred in real life (and if you don’t think Sorkin is, all I can say is, WTF), then you gotta make sure the shit that happened that you think you have a point to make about actually went down the way you show it to - or else just invent a new set of facts and say that’s what you did.  And you don’t get to use people’s names and make it clear you’re talking about an very real individual, and then just say they did shit they didn’t do, without their permission.  At least not if you want to avoid getting sued.  Will each of you who feel otherwise concede that anyone can make a movie about you, using your name and the best likeness they can concoct, discuss things in your personal life and what you spend your time working on, and do all of that using whatever “poetic license” the auteur sees fit to make a social critique that cast you in a very negative light - whether saying the project is fiction, or denying it (I can’t figure out which is more f’d up, though it’s more than just an inconvenience to Marcotte’s argument that Sorkin has taken the tack he has on that)?  Yes?  Bullshit.  It’s one thing to do this with a composer who’s been dead for two hundred years, or to make a film that changes all manner of names and facts and in fact creates an entirely unrecognizable fictional world in which to string up a major figure of an era by implication.  It’s another to say that Mark Zuckerberg, a real 30-year-old who exists today, did this or that when you either know he didn’t, or have no reason to believe he did, just in order to make a point about, well, anything.  That’s not to say this movie can’t be made because it won’t get everything exactly tight.  But there’s a very clear line between being hemmed in by the limits of the historical record and of representational truth on the one hand, and, while clearly representing the real actions of real people alive today, saying, ‘you know what, I want to make this point, and this is a movie not reality, so I am going to employ poetic license here and add in some stuff I think will make my point better.’  The former is understood; the latter just pollutes the public intellectual and artistic commons.  I don’t know if The Social Network crossed that line, but I do knoe that this post clear defends doing so if the “ideas” one can promote by doing so are good ones.  I wonder if Amanda would similarly defend the practice if she felt the ideas in question were not so good, or if the person whose story was being told (fictionally?) was a friend.

Comment #61: MDrew  on  10/12  at  07:26 AM

Also - to address the title of this post - yes, exactly - Hearst didn’t have a sled named Rosebud.  “Hearst” wasn’t in the movie, and that’s the point.  Kane isn’t even a particular good direct representation of Hearst, even leaving the name change aside.  There is no attempt to portray real events in the life of William Randolph Hearnt in Citizen Kane.  This is not to say the film wasn’t aimed at the figure of Hearst, but the name change is a clear nod to the need to respect the historical record if you are going to treat it explicitly.  I’m confused as to just where Amanda is confused here.  This is not about being unable to get every detail right, or about dramatizing the specifics of events that cannot be known directly.  This is about (the idea of) intentionally changing the details of a real (living, no less) person’s real story in order to further an authorial agenda separate from the telling of the story as it occurred to the best of one’s ability - while continuing to maintain one is telling that real person’s real story (even if rightly telling it doesn’t make the person look very good).  I don’t understand where the confusion about the problem with doing that comes from.  I’ll tell you who isn’t confused about that, and who didn’t commit any “error” when insisting this is not a fictionalized account: Aaron Sorkin - because he knows his publicity for the movies can’t be, “Yeah, my thing is I go around making movies using the names and events in the lives of actual living people but here’s the thing: add in all kinds of shit I make up that makes them look bad but advances social criticisms I want to make, so yeah, go see The Social Network at a theater near you, and by the way I’m always accepting story ideas from people’s lives!”

Comment #62: MDrew  on  10/12  at  07:54 AM

The nineteenth century dislike of realism is the rage of Caliban seeing his own face in a glass.

The nineteenth century dislike of romanticism is the rage of Caliban not seeing his own face in a glass.

The moral life of man forms part of the subject-matter of the artist, but the morality of art consists in the perfect use of an imperfect medium.

Oscar Wilde

Comment #63: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  10/12  at  09:10 AM

@60: Certainly, but he’s specifically talking about the blurring of reality Eyes Wide Shut and Fight Club.

Comment #64: CBrachyrhynchos  on  10/12  at  10:23 AM

Interesting comments.  But i have no desire to see the movie, and I can honestly say this discussion has not imbued me with one.

I want Mad Men Tuesday to start!

Comment #65: JennyLI  on  10/12  at  10:27 AM

Writers appropriate biography and historical drama as a way to create short-cuts for character, setting, and conflict development. There’s nothing particularly wrong with that, but it’s the kind of writerly magic that criticism should address.

Comment #66: CBrachyrhynchos  on  10/12  at  10:29 AM

“Especially since the movie shows almost exactly what Harvard is really like, even if many Harvard students are too privileged to notice.”

Really? From the trailers it just looks like Paper Chase 2.0; a lazy-trope-Harvard, not any actual elite campus of the last decade. Are you a student or recent graduate of the place? Can you actually shed better light than the Harvard alum reviewers, or is this just knee-jerk snark about privilege (which always satisfying and fun, of course, but not really enlightening)?

Comment #67: wapsie  on  10/12  at  10:54 AM

And count me in with the people who have less-than-zero interest in seeing a movie about the dicks who made FB.

Comment #68: wapsie  on  10/12  at  10:56 AM

I’m not sure I’d even call a film like “The Social Network” a biopic in the classic sense. It feels more like a movie based on a true story, which obviously opens up a lot more possibilities with the narrative. Its just a piece of a life and not one anyone really knows. The “oh, hey, its that moment” moments were about Facebook. Sean Parker is not recognized for being Sean Parker, but for being the embodiment of Napster. In so far as it follows biopic conventions, its about a website. Which is actually really interesting.

“Based on a True Story” movies also have an expectation of fudging the facts, but I do agree that this doesn’t make them immune from criticism on that level. Sometimes, facts are changed not to streamline a story but to create one. When facts are functionally changed to fit a moral, I think a complaint is more justified. Its a hard thing to judge, though. Its easy for me to cringe when facts are changed to serve a message I don’t like, but I’ve also been upset by movies that have manipulated reality in support of things I agree with. If there is too much of a stench of trying to gain credibility by the story being true, the veracity I think becomes more important.

I don’t think that applies to “The Social Network”. Indeed, I think Amanda is too hard on Sorkin for his claims about it being non-fiction because I think that misses another issue being explored in the film. The movie is very explicitly about how mutable the truth can be. How it isn’t necessarily one thing. Its a tough thing to explore without going full on Rashomon and presenting different truths on screen. There is a tendency to trust what we see as the “real” truth and characters denying it should be suspect but I think the movie wants us to not trust what we see. The Finals Club fantasy at the start would certainly suggest that interpretation. There are many competing view points about what happened. The movie certainly lays out the means to feel both sympathy and antipathy towards all of the main actors. It probably veers a little too far into making a hero out of Severin, but not without also clearly establishing his approach as wrong. Zuckerberg was right to resist his ideas. Severin’s anger towards Parker is clearly not fair. It just strikes me as odd to complain about a movie’s veracity when the movie is so open about exploring how the truth differs from person to person. The whole point of the film is that there isn’t ONE TRUTH about the founding of Facebook or anything else.

That said, I always follow-up on true story movies by exploring the background and I feel they got the essence pretty good. If anything, they were too kind to Zuckerberg. Making the girl he was bitter towards be an ex is a lot more charitable than the notion that he was dating his future wife at the time but was still so furious with some other woman that he created a misogynistic website. And the fact that it had guys, too, doesn’t really change that. You can be equal opportunity about something like that in our culture. Everything is much too unequal to start with. The fact that he was that bitter and was seeing someone is not an easy story to tell and I don’t think it really impacted the point of the story. The only other thing that seemed more challenging is the friendship between Zuckerberg and Severin as in real life there seems to be little ambiguity about Zuckerberg blatantly using him from the get go and having absolutely no respect for him. But I think the movie does suggest some of that while being upfront about telling us things from Severin’s point of view where he clearly didn’t know the obnoxious things Zuckerberg was saying behind his back. The truth is, when I learned some of the real details, my opinion of Zuckerberg went down considerably but I get the feeling the “its not true” crowd thinks it was actually too hard on him. The level of disdain he felt towards the one person to step up and invest in his idea and in him is frankly disturbing. The movie was perhaps too easy on him.

Comment #69: BStu  on  10/12  at  11:46 AM

Aaron Sorkin has made the fatal mistake of giving his critics ammunition by claiming what is a demonstrably fictional film is non-fiction.

Well, that’s the problem right there.  That’s not a side point, that’s the whole point.  It’s not being a Stupid Film Goer to go into a film that purports to be nonfictional and then watch it and receive as if it resembles truth.  No one expects exact factual adherence to every little detail, but it’s not unreasonable to expect thematic and contextual accuracy generally.  That doesn’t seem to be the case here.

Comment #70: Katherine  on  10/12  at  12:10 PM

Dittoing Amanda’s post and myfavoriteboxer’s Ebert link.

Is this really controversial?  I wouldn’t have thought so before the thread below on The Social Network. 

In my experience, ninety-five percent of the time, when we’re talking about narrative feature—as opposed to documentary—“It’s not factually accurate” isn’t a criticism; it’s a non-sequitur.  It’s a way to avoid talking about the content of the film.

We don’t even have to go back to Citizen Kane to see how disingenuous these sorts of attacks on The Social Network are.  Were the same people lining up to lob Factual Accuracy grenades at Coco Chanel & Igor Stravinksy, The Baader-Meinhof Complex, Bright Star, Hunger, Public Enemies, Everlasting Moments, Che, Valkyrie, Frost/Nixon, Milk, Changeling, W., Mongol, The Counterfeiters, Into the Wild, The Diving Bell and the Butterfly, Persepolis, or the Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford?

Comment #71: Caustic Ignostic  on  10/12  at  01:08 PM

I guess it’s a continuum: in the Criterion Collection of Che, the audio commentary is provided by the historical consultant. Basically, everything in the movie is an accurate portrayal of events, but he was unhappy that certain material didn’t make it in the movie; e.g. events that transformed the doctor into the person who would unhesitatingly order executions.

Then you have something like Hoosiers. The framework is there, but facts are so much omitted as completely mutated or, in some cases, reversed, in service of some point. For instance, the high school in Hoosiers were not underdogs, they generally blew out teams, they didn’t play an all-black high school in the finals, and the coach had already been there a few years and was half the age of Gene Hackman (in his late 20s).

If Che is a 1 and Hoosiers is a 10, where does the Social Network lie? For the record, Citizen Kane isn’t on this continuum.

Comment #72: norbizness  on  10/12  at  01:40 PM

Dittoing Amanda’s post and myfavoriteboxer’s Ebert link.

Eberts link has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.

In my experience, ninety-five percent of the time, when we’re talking about narrative feature—as opposed to documentary—“It’s not factually accurate” isn’t a criticism; it’s a non-sequitur.  It’s a way to avoid talking about the content of the film.

On the contrary, sometimes historical revisionism and the attempts at hagiography are key problems behind the content of a film. And really, this is an absurd, know-nothing counter to criticism. If the screenwriter and director are bending the facts (as much as we can know them) in order to make a point, then there’s no problem in looking at how it’s done and whether it actually works.

Comment #73: CBrachyrhynchos  on  10/12  at  01:45 PM

If the screenwriter and director are bending the facts (as much as we can know them) in order to make a point, then there’s no problem in looking at how it’s done and whether it actually works.

No doubt.  But—again, in my experience—the extent of the Factual Accuracy criticism is often limited to grunting about the existence of factual inaccuracies, without any attempt to understand why the filmmakers may have changed the facts, or whether those changes are wise or desirable or artistically interesting.  To be fair, I think the thread on The Social Network is below is generally a tier above this kind of crude criticism.  Many of the commenters who voiced their displeasure at the film’s liberties at least tried to explain why those liberties amounted to a net negative in their view.  This is a welcome exception to the typical discussion about “Based on True Events” films (an exception I would ascribe to the general high caliber of Pandagon commenters).  I don’t think there’s anything wrong with interrogating the motives of artists who elide, emphasize, and make up whole cloth in order to rehabilitate / slander the image of a historical / public figure.  On the other hand, when a filmmaker makes a narrative feature instead of documentary, I think they’re signaling right out of the gate that accuracy isn’t vital to what they’re trying to say. The selection of media / form / genre says a lot about an artist’s objective.  On the other other hand, even propaganda can be artful and interesting (although it usually isn’t).

“JFK” is a terrible offender on the Factual Accuracy front, but I’m disappointed about how many people let its horrendous problems as a objective historical document (which it doesn’t purport to be) get in the way of one of a great work of cinema, the best representation of conspiratorial thinking in American politics, and some of the finest editing in the history of film.

Comment #74: Caustic Ignostic  on  10/12  at  02:04 PM

“Especially since the movie shows almost exactly what Harvard is really like, even if many Harvard students are too privileged to notice.”

Really? From the trailers it just looks like Paper Chase 2.0; a lazy-trope-Harvard, not any actual elite campus of the last decade. Are you a student or recent graduate of the place? Can you actually shed better light than the Harvard alum reviewers, or is this just knee-jerk snark about privilege (which always satisfying and fun, of course, but not really enlightening)?

I’m a Yalie, but I have family, friends, and colleagues from Harvard, and the cultural differences are negligible.  The self-conscious purpose of elite universities is to train the Future Leaders of America.  Student clubs and organizations are an integral part of that purpose.  They are institutionalized developers and filters of character and ability.  Some students and alumni may not get it, some may choose not to play, and some may find creative alternative ways to play it, but the game is world domination, and the Ivies are good at it.
A little artistic license goes a long way to revealing the deeper truth.  We may not wear the tweed jackets on the outside anymore, but we still internalize that ethos.  Any Harvard alum who says otherwise either doesn’t get it, or lacks self-awareness due to privilege, or is lying to seem more folksy.

Comment #75: BABH  on  10/12  at  02:13 PM

norbizness:

I like the analogy of a Kinsey-style scale for Factual Accuracy. smile

I couldn’t say where The Social Network falls on your continuum, since I don’t know much about Zuckerberg’s life or the the historical details of the founding of Facebook.  However, I also won’t be basing my understanding on either on The Social Network, which is a good (possibly great) film, but not an encyclopedia entry.

I wouldn’t say Che is even a 1.  A lot is elided in the film.  Even at four plus hours, it’s not a definitive biopic of the man by any stretch.  How could it be?  As Amanda points out, life is messy and contradictory and random; it’s not a pre-packaged narrative and it doesn’t have a trajectory.  I think of Che as Soderbergh’s thesis on the fickle nature of political revolution, about how slight variations in circumstances can lead to vastly different results.  Far from a hagiography, I think the film ends up largely ambivalent about the man and—if anything—advocates a small “c” conservative suspicion about the supposed inevitable character of Marxist revolution.

Comment #76: Caustic Ignostic  on  10/12  at  02:17 PM

Dittoing Amanda’s post and myfavoriteboxer’s Ebert link.

Is this really controversial?  I wouldn’t have thought so before the thread below on The Social Network.

I read the post as saying: “Normally poetic license is totally OK in modern cinema, but the The Social Network used its poetic license to expose one rich Nice Guy(tm) as an asshole, so every other person on the Internet who came out of the woodwork to denounce it for its historical inaccuracy must be a Nice Guy(tm) himself or sympathizer, which just proves that the movie was spot on.”

And the next post will be:  “See? Several hundred posts, so it really was about Nice Guys(tm) all along!”

(The irony to me being that the idea that “All men who create stuff do it either to acquire or out of spite for not getting Teh Pussy” isn’t exactly high-brow stuff.  It’s a key piece of dialogue from _The Tao of Steve_.)

Comment #77: boring old dude  on  10/12  at  02:32 PM

Now for me, JFK has problems because the inaccuracy gets in the way of its political advocacy that we should care about discovering the truth behind the assassination.

I don’t see a hard line between fiction and documentary here. In many cases I think directors and writers use historical accuracy to give their less historical claims a bit more authority and meat. James Cameron and Ridley Scott do this on film and Erik Larson does it with novelized history (Devil in the White City would make a brilliant miniseries in the right hands). I don’t see this as inherently a bad thing, but it is something worth noticing.

But a central problem here is that a lot of people don’t notice and fiction often becomes accepted as history as a result: Cleopatra, Eliot Ness, Jesse James, Antonio Salieri, Harry Houdini, and Christopher Columbus come to mind as examples here.

Comment #78: CBrachyrhynchos  on  10/12  at  02:42 PM

Caustic, you sound like someone who is really into “film” and enjoys the opportunity to talk about the cinematic virtues of whatever movie is under consideration. My advice would be to leave it in your film class: the editing and directorial talent on display in The Social Network is the non-sequitur here.

Biopics should be accurate.

I have started to conclude that film is an inherently limiting medium, so maybe I’m expecting too much, but in that case it’s fair to say that The Social Network probably shouldn’t have been made at all. If Sorkin had an overwhelming need to talk about the role of misogyny in entrepreneurship, maybe he should have tried not to use real live persons in a biopic about something that actually happened to explore his artist axes to grind.

Comment #79: Tyro  on  10/12  at  02:48 PM

OK, dumb hypothetical:

Someone wants to make a movie about the career so far of one Ezra Klein; let’s say Ezra is chosen specifically because he wound up being employed by the Washington Post and nobody wants to make a movie about Ross Douthat.  Let’s also say that the filmmaker also wants to present and comment on the underrepresentation of women among the big deal liberal political bloggers.  Finally, let’s stipulate for this hypothetical that “real world” Ezra is a good guy, feminist, upstanding of character and conviction.  (For my purpose, it doesn’t matter if the actual real Ezra is a condescending sexist pig.)

In order to achieve the filmmaker’s intentions re: the relative absence or exclusion of women from the ranks of big deal liberal political bloggers, several factual compromises are made.  For example, although the film covers Ezra’s time at Pandagon, Amanda Marcotte is written out of the script.  Ezra’s various female colleagues at TAP are condensed into a single character, who is marginalized and not taken very seriously.  The only female character blogger with significant screentime is Megan McArdle, who is, in the film, subjected not to the kind of derision she actually deserves, but to lots of condescending sexist sniggering on the part of Ezra and the film’s condensed Matt Yglesias/Julian Sanchez hybrid.  We could have a scene where the aforementioned marginalized TAP co-blogger asks Ezra why all the ones who made it to the “big time” were guys and he sneers “because you never had anything interesting to say.”

So, granting my hypothetical stipulation that all of the above is a really unfair portrait of the “real” Ezra, wouldn’t the artistic choice to present the story in this fashion merit some discussion?

Comment #80: medrawt  on  10/12  at  02:50 PM

My purpose in posting the link from Ebert’s site (the piece was written by an editor/blogger for his site named Jim Emerson, not by Roger Ebert himself) was in the discussion about the “final club party/girls on the ‘Fuck Truck’” and whether it is a dream sequence.

The text of the film indicates that that sequence is something other than objective. It’s made a big deal throughout that Zuckerberg can’t get past the bike room in one of those clubs. Look at the stylized way it’s shot, for instance.

BUT… if you make your analysis little more than “Was it real or not?” then you’re not going very far.

(Incidentally, it’s been nice to see folks react to an article about how you shouldn’t take things so literally… by taking the article itself too literally. It only talks about Fight Club and Eyes Wide Shut, so it therefore has no relevance to our discussion, which isn’t about either of those movies. Uh, huh.)

Comment #81: Dan Watson  on  10/12  at  03:06 PM

Historical events even at their most exciting tend to make for some fairly poor drama. Things take too long to happen or too many important people are involved. To make things better for drama, certain sacrifices must be made. The time period covered is usually condensed, differenet people are turned into composite characters to reduce the number of people that needed to be cast. Plus, romance and sex often get added where there is none because a lot of the audience expects it. Also, people tend find conflict very entertaining and more conflict and confrontation will be put in if it feels it makes for a better story. Thats why Mozart’s real life friendship with Solinari, whom he put in charge of his kid’s musical education, was made into a conflict by Alexander Pushkin within a few years of Mozart’s death and latter soldified in the movie Amadeus.*

  *Personally, I love Amadeus but would have liked a movie about a friendship more. We don’t have enough movies about friendships. Lots of movies about enemies, lovers, and family but comparitively few on friendships.

Comment #82: Lee  on  10/12  at  03:28 PM

“although the film covers Ezra’s time at Pandagon, Amanda Marcotte is written out of the script. “

This wouldn’t be difficult, since Amanda joined some time after Ezra had left.

Comment #83: Dan  on  10/12  at  04:08 PM

It only talks about Fight Club and Eyes Wide Shut, so it therefore has no relevance to our discussion, which isn’t about either of those movies. Uh, huh.

It doesn’t because Ebert is specifically addressing unrealistic subjective states as presented in film narrative and not problems adapting biographical and historical facts to drama. Two entirely different strategies. The two can occasionally appear in the same film, but often they don’t.

Comment #84: CBrachyrhynchos  on  10/12  at  04:11 PM

I’m reminded of something I read on a writer’s blog (George RR Martin IIRC) condemning Spartacus: Blood and Sand for not being as historically accurate as HBO’s Rome. It was odd because, for all of its myriad faults, S:BnS adhered strictly to the known historic facts of the incident in question while Rome was, as far as history goes, an unmitigated disaster. What he was really complaining about was that S:BnS sucked while Rome was a damn well made TV show.

It wasn’t accuracy that was the problem, it was veracity; Rome may have been wrong, but it felt right (much like the cursing in Deadwood). The representation of the material culture was depicted with a great eye, the characters were well developed even when they were gross amalgamations and tons of mundane, boring fluff was mercilessly cut out and simplified for the expedience of the story and the viewer’s understanding of the basic events and cultural touchstones of the era. S:BnS, on the other hand, hung a crap story on the bare branches of the historical record and tried to punch it up with cheap SFX, inanely anachronistic characters, buckets of gore and a hefty dose of TnA.

Comment #85: Sarcastro  on  10/12  at  04:21 PM

Dan -

Oh my!  I somehow inverted the timeline of when Ezra and Jesse left Pandagon.  It’s been a while, after all.  It’s really disconcerting to realize how long I’ve been reading some of these bloggers.

My hypothetical remains endlessly flexible, though!  We could imagine a movie where “for narrative convenience” Amanda and Ezra *had* been cobloggers, and artistic hay was made out of their differing career paths as bloggers, even though the structural premise - that at one point they’d been coequal contributors to the same site - would be false.  After all, any one fact or “fact” being compromised is inconsequential.

Comment #86: medrawt  on  10/12  at  04:28 PM

My advice would be to leave it in your film class: the editing and directorial talent on display in The Social Network is the non-sequitur here.

Not at all.  Understanding how a film functions (or fails) in a formal sense often directly informs how it functions (or fails) as emotionally compelling drama, as a political or social message, or as a broader and less purposeful exploration of theme.

The credit sequence of The Social Network is a great example of this.  (Again, I have to recommend Jim Emerson’s dissection of the film here.)  The character of Erica is supposedly a fiction, so by definition Mark’s walk from The Thirsty Scholar to Kirkland Hall is a kind of fiction.  However, the way that walk is presented conveys a lot about what’s going on in Mark’s mind and what Fincher’s approach to the story of Facebook will be: the typically Fincher-esque dim, greasy-brown-green color of the photography, which makes a Harvard campus that is otherwise alive with activity seem ominous; similarly, the way that the oppressive, ambient scoring overwhelms the sound of the scene (note the violin player that Mark ignores, just as he ignores everyone); Eisenberg’s performance (head down, rushed, preoccupied); the laughably inappropriate dress for the snowbound Massachusetts autumn, emphasizing Mark’s social and mental isolation; the deep focus that contrasts with the shallow depth of field that dominates the interiors scenes (where most of the film’s “action” takes place).  None of this is incidental to the film’s themes; it’s essential.

Biopics should be accurate.

They can’t, by definition.  All art is representational.  Every biopic, even the most banal History Channel documentary requires one to leave out things and emphasize others.  What’s the alternative?  Film a person’s life as it happens non-stop for their entire lives?  That’s not a film, that’s the plot of The Truman Show.  And, after all that, you still wouldn’t be capturing that’s person’s life “accurately,” just the events as the camera saw them.

If Sorkin had an overwhelming need to talk about the role of misogyny in entrepreneurship, maybe he should have tried not to use real live persons in a biopic about something that actually happened to explore his artist axes to grind.

Extend this line of thinking to its logical conclusion, and you end up having to choose between two and only two alternatives: 1) Bland entertainments about 100% fictional people and places, entertainments that never have anything interesting to say and exist only to be flitting, ninety-minute nuggets of escapist melodrama; or 2) Serious works of political, social, and cultural commentary, which are as perfectly reflective of reality as possible and never revise anything for the sake of drama, coherence, continuity, simplicity, or running time.  I’d rather not live in a world where those are our only choices.  I think it’s valuable that the makers of entertaining, crowd-pleasing films (your David Finchers, your Kathryn Bigelows, your Danny Boyles, to name just some recently lauded directors) are interested in engaging with many aspects of the human experience (including political, social, and cultural issues) within the context of their films.  It makes their films more interesting to engage with and discuss and re-visit, and it’s what distinguishes a film-maker from any random hack with a camcorder.

Comment #87: Caustic Ignostic  on  10/12  at  04:36 PM

CBrachyrhynchos:

To throw out another perplexing film, what about I’m Not There?  Haynes is clearly making a statement(s) about art, celebrity, self-promotion, and mythmaking, but I can’t see how the film can even exist without Bob Dylan at the center of it.  Does Haynes get a pass on the film’s inaccuracies because Dylan himself is so conscious of these issues?  Or because the film is obviously “arty” that no one could take it seriously as the Truth (as they might The Social Network)?  Or does Haynes *not* get a pass?

Comment #88: Caustic Ignostic  on  10/12  at  04:52 PM

Extend this line of thinking to its logical conclusion, and you end up having to choose between two and only two alternatives

No—that’s really a total straw man of what I said, which was that if Sorkin had some artistic ax to grind about misogyny and entrepreneurship, he should have made that film rather than appropriating and fictionalizing Facebook under the guise of a “true story” biopic.

“All depictions are representational and thus fiction” is the sort of thing that “blows your mind” when you’re 18 but besides the point when we are talking about the fictionalization of what purports to be a true story.

Comment #89: Tyro  on  10/12  at  04:59 PM

Lindsay:

  There’s no difference between a director having an entire subculture to work with to tell a good, fudge-free story and a director having an individual’s entire life to work with.  My point in using Wordplay was that it took a completely uninteresting pastime (to me) and made a very entertaining (to me) movie.  A director could do the same with any person who’s had an interesting, active life.  Audiences like identifying with people in movies.

The larger argument about whether or not a movie should or shouldn’t use non-facts to tell the story is pointless.  If you’re using an actor to tell a story, you’ve already crossed the truth line anyway.

Comment #90: entrails  on  10/12  at  05:00 PM

Caustic Ignostic -

Who, in particular, is asking you to extend the line of thinking to its purportedly logical conclusion, and advocating that those should be your only choices?  Whether or not you agree, look at how the people on the other side of the argument from you have generally made the effort to distinguish Citizen Kane - which, let’s just take for granted, is among many other things a kind of hit piece on W.R. Hearst - from a movie like The Social NetworkKane speaks to many things of both contemporary and timeless importance, and Hearst was personally affronted by it, and yet: the movie isn’t about him.  Even if its about him (in the sense that Fight Club is about masculine anxiety in modern consumer society), it’s not about him (in the sense that Fight Club is about a nameless narrator played by Edward Norton).  Charles Foster Kane has a different name, different biography, and different career trajectory than Hearst.  Personally, I don’t really care that the film’s Zuckerberg is supposedly different in character than the real Zuckerberg - I take that as something of a given, and I also happen to have separate reasons for disliking Zuckerberg from afar, so I’m biased against him.  But art involves an artistic dialogue, and part of the artistic dialogue here involves interrogating the purpose and result of the artist’s choices.  For the purposes of this argument, at least, some people seem to be presenting a weirdly flat perpsective, as though artistic choices simply Are, and the rest of us are trying to legislate them out of existence because its unfair or something.  There’s no choice made in altering whatever we collectively agree to think is close enough to “the truth” about Zuckerberg (or Hearst, or Patton, or Ness) that couldn’t have been a different choice.

And I think it’s worth considering the difference between molding the messiness of real life into a fictional narrative and grafting morally problematic personality traits/beliefs onto a real person or group of people who, by the testimony of folks who seem like they know what they’re talking about, don’t actually have those traits.  I don’t expect Walk the Line to give me a perfectly truthful tale of the courtship of Johnny Cash and June Carter, but I would be surprised if, to demonstrate how the music industry was very racist, the movie portrayed Cash as virulently racist.  (Again, I don’t know the contents of Cash’s heart, or in this case even the nature of his conduct.  I’m presuming for hypothetical convenience that Cash was more or less on the right side of the racial conflicts of his era.)

Comment #91: medrawt  on  10/12  at  05:15 PM

No—that’s really a total straw man of what I said, which was that if Sorkin had some artistic ax to grind about misogyny and entrepreneurship, he should have made that film rather than appropriating and fictionalizing Facebook under the guise of a “true story” biopic.

If it’s mere inaccuracy that is the problem, it’s not clear to me what makes this calculus applicable to The Social Network and not to other films about real people, places, and events.  Perhaps I’m failing to understand your specific objections to the film.  Generally speaking, however, I’m not keen to declare that “This artist should have made a film that I imagine instead of the film that they actually made,” if only because it distracts from text.  I would prefer to discuss the film that actually exists.  If that film is a failure and poorly made and repugnant in its politics, then fine, let’s discuss why that is.  But it’s not particularly informative to speculate about the better, completely different film that *could& have been made.

“All depictions are representational and thus fiction” is the sort of thing that “blows your mind” when you’re 18 but besides the point when we are talking about the fictionalization of what purports to be a true story. </I>

I guess we’ll just have to differ there.  I don’t regard “All Depictions Are Representational” as a sophomoric or irrelevant to the discussion at all.

Comment #92: Caustic Ignostic  on  10/12  at  05:24 PM

I would be surprised if, to demonstrate how the music industry was very racist, the movie portrayed Cash as virulently racist. 

Or, similarly, if the director wanted to make the movie a “racial redemption” story by introducing a fictional black character that Cash always blamed for his brother’s death and ends with him and June Carter going on to use their music to advance the civil rights movement. You might figure that this is both an inappropriate fictionalization and that other lives could more accurately be used for this kind of thematic vehicle—or none at all, maybe: that’s what historical fiction is for.

What we really want out of any biopic is a better understanding of the subjects that are being portrayed in the film. If what we get out of The Social Network is “it was all about the misogyny of the startup company that created one of the most widely used applications in the world” when that isn’t actually true, then maybe Sorkin should actually find some better material and not try to make “true story” films—I don’t care how good the editing was.

Comment #93: Tyro  on  10/12  at  05:30 PM

I enjoyed the movie The Departed quite a bit. And then I watched the original movie it was based on, the Hong Kong movie Infernal Affairs. It was fairly jarring to realize that Martin Scorsese was much more willing and able to adhere closely to the source text of Infernal Affairs when making The Departed than most directors are ever willing to do when it comes to history.

That’s an unfair comparison: Infernal Affairs is already a movie, so adapting it into another movie is rather trivial.  Beginning, middle, end, climax, introduction of characters, whatever: it’s all neatly arranged in convenient form.  Real life events, even some of the most dramatic, very rarely (if ever) can be so neatly arranged.

To use the ready example since we’re talking Scorsese, Tommy DeSimone (Tomme DeVito in Goodfellas) wasn’t just killed for murdering Billy Batts without permission.  It was because Hank Hill’s wife (according to Hill) was having an affair with Paul Vario (Paul Cicero in the movie), and when Hill was sentenced to prison time, DeSimone attempted to rape Karen Hill.  In retaliation, Vario informed the Gambinos that DeSimone had killed Billy Batts, and thus the setup and execution.

The movie simplifies this considerably by eliminating the entirely personal motive Vario had for setting DeSimone up.  It would have only added more baggage to the movie: the affair, rape and revenge killing would have complicated the relationship between Vario, DeSimone and Hill which wouldn’t work for the nice, tight story the movie was.  In the end, the events play out the same: DeSimone/DeVito is killed, Vario/Cicero sees Hill as a liability, and Hill turns on Vario/Cicero.  While knowing the persona motivations that shaded those decisions is useful in real life (did Vario decide to do in Hill just for business reasons or because of the affair?  did Hill turn on Vario because it was the only way he’d get Witness Protection, or was there revenge for Vario having the affair with Karen?) in this particular movie version of the story they aren’t necessary.

Comment #94: KeithM  on  10/12  at  05:44 PM

medrawt:

I think Amanda already articulated why creating a thinly-veiled version of The Social Network’s characters, places, and events (Mike Tuckerstein, creator of the social networking site VizText) would have been folly, for both artistic and commercial reasons that did not apply when Citizen Kane was made.

As I think I made clear, I’m not hostile to engaging with the liberties taken in a Based on True Events film, and why those liberties were taken, and whether they achieve an objective or help/hinder the film.  But I think that, generally speaking, such discussions end up being circular, with naysayers retreating to “This film is Inaccurate and therefore Bad.”  I haven’t seen as much of that here, and for that I’m appreciative.

Comment #95: Caustic Ignostic  on  10/12  at  05:47 PM

What we really want out of any biopic is a better understanding of the subjects that are being portrayed in the film. If what we get out of The Social Network is “it was all about the misogyny of the startup company that created one of the most widely used applications in the world” when that isn’t actually true, then maybe Sorkin should actually find some better material and not try to make “true story” films—I don’t care how good the editing was.

This, I think, is where we’re coming at the discussion with very different expectations.  I absolutely would not see a biopic to attain a better understanding of the subject.  I would pick up a well-researched work of biographical non-fiction.

Similarly, if all someone gets out of The Social Network is “it was all about the misogyny of the startup company that created one of the most widely used applications in the world,” then they saw a very different film from the one I saw.  Never mind that it’s not an accurate reading on its face; there’s a lot more going on in the film.  Which is, incidentally, why things like editing matter, just as much (if not more) than a screenplay or what the screenwriter says in an interview.  When we’re talking about talented film-makers, every element and choice—performance, editing, shots, lighting, music, wardrobe, sound, etc, etc, etc—contributes in some way to the story that they’re trying to tell.  They add density, texture, and complexity to the film, above and beyond what is merely being said by the characters at any given moment.  Without an understanding of, appreciation for, and literacy in reading those elements, we might as well just watch a Power Point presentation laying out a bunch of dry facts (or someone’s opinions).  And who wants to do that?

Comment #96: Caustic Ignostic  on  10/12  at  05:59 PM

And count me in with the people who have less-than-zero interest in seeing a movie about the dicks who made FB.

Double that to how apparently, to make it interesting, they made them even more assholes than they were.

Comment #97: Crissa  on  10/12  at  06:10 PM

Caustic Ignostic -

As I think I said upthread, I agree that the specifics of Facebook are so unique that you couldn’t make a movie about it and not have it be understood to, you know, be about it.  What I’m questioning is, if Sorkin (and just as I said that I personally am biased against Zuckerberg, I’m not the world’s biggest Sorkin fan; come to think of it, there’s something that bugs me about Jesse Eisenberg) basically decided to import thematic material foreign to the story he was telling, I think that’s an artistically questionable choice, and I’ll admit to some fuzzy thinking around the notion that it’s specifically questionable to me because Zuckerberg is a guy who’s still alive and doing stuff.

There is an issue here, I think, about different perceptions of fiction vs. nonfiction in film and text.  There’s a specific technique (or set of techniques) about how film is presented that mark out a movie which is claiming to really be “nonfiction” - a documentary.  Everything else is “fiction” no matter how closely it hews to reality, because it’s using actors, and documentaries don’t use actors, they use real people.  (Well, lots do reenactments of some sort, but I’m trying to radically oversimplify here.)  In prose, it’s accepted that nonfiction works can take all sorts of forms, including ones that more or less mimic the presentation of the novel.  There, it’s the ‘fiction” or “nonfiction” tag that tells the reader how to understand the work in front of her.  Maybe the real thing about prose is that real people and fictive characters are equal on the page, whereas Eisenberg is easily distinguishable from Zuckerberg in a way that confuses when he’s playing Zuckerberg vs. playing the kid in The Squid and the Whale.  Or, better: Richard Nixon is a character in both the recent Frost/Nixon film and that movie with Kirsten Dunst and Michelle Williams, but we as audience members understand that while both Nixon’s aren’t really the real Nixon, the Frost/Nixon Nixon is purporting to be more truthful to the real Nixon than the other fictional Nixon.  In these terms, it’s problematic if Sorkin is saying that his Zuckerberg is supposed to be seen like the Frost/Nixon Nixon, if he’s really being deployed more like the Dunst/Williams Nixon.

Comment #98: medrawt  on  10/12  at  06:31 PM

@89: Well, as I’ve said multiple times on both threads, there’s nothing inherently wrong with using historical or biographical facts as a short-cut to develop character, setting, or conflict. So I’m not sure why you’re asking me whether a movie should “get a pass.” Having said that, I’m Not There makes its agenda of exploring the mythology and folklore of Dylan clear from the start. Marie Antoinette works in a similar way by having 80s rock blend with period dance music and breaking the fourth wall to address the popular “let them eat cake” myth.  But these are exceptional cases. I’ll also put De-lovely up there, in spite of my dislike how it’s all about Linda Lee Porter in the end.

My antipathy for the biopic and the historical drama comes from the way they tend to combine bad biography and bad drama. Add to that an “inspired by true events” flag and a ham-fisted “lesson” and they’re distinctly not my thing. Hairspray and Cadillac Records both have something to say about the birth of rock and roll. Hairspray says it better with comic stereotypes than Cadillac Records does by shoehorning half of its characters into tragic stereotypes.

But by all means, I’m Not There is a great work for undermining its own authority in wrestling with multiple perspectives, outright falsehood, and a mercurial subject, although I have trouble getting into it because I’m not a Dylan fan. Across the Universe strikes me as a brilliant work for many of the same reasons. The problems of authenticity and truth in narrative certainly have abundant antecedents in film. <i>Citizen Kane<i> is one of them because most of the action comes to us via a series of unreliable narrators.

Comment #99: CBrachyrhynchos  on  10/12  at  06:36 PM

Someone wants to make a movie about the career so far of one Ezra Klein; let’s say Ezra is chosen specifically because he wound up being employed by the Washington Post and nobody wants to make a movie about Ross Douthat.

Hmm - does anyone have David Lynch’s phone number?...

Comment #100: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  10/12  at  07:03 PM

Caustic Ignostic: I guess I’m not seeing the so-called hard line between fiction and non-fiction here. Most biopics and historical dramas do take themselves seriously as presenting a historical narrative as popular entertainment, and the lines between the two are not always clear. Meanwhile, “non-fiction” certainly can be entertaining and/or have an axe to grind. The Right Stuff and Devil in the White City both have historical narratives, and both stake out narrative positions where we just don’t know what really happened. This isn’t a flaw as much as a necessity of making sense of events.

Comment #101: CBrachyrhynchos  on  10/12  at  07:25 PM

Caustic Ignostic:

Similarly, if all someone gets out of The Social Network is “it was all about the misogyny of the startup company that created one of the most widely used applications in the world,” then they saw a very different film from the one I saw.  Never mind that it’s not an accurate reading on its face; there’s a lot more going on in the film

I’m curious now; what *is* the reading that us film illiterates (being the bulk of the public) were supposed to have gotten out of the film?

Comment #102: Mandos  on  10/12  at  09:17 PM

See, the reading *I* got, as I explained way up there, was precisely about misogyny and homosociality among the new technoelite who rule us.  Fine; lets allow that accuracy is besides the point.  Let’s pretend that Mark Zuckerberg is a fictional canvas on which Sorkin wanted to tell a tale, never mind that it could not be told without making use of the real context of our world. 

Then what Sorkin did was make a beautiful movie about a world that is not ours, with a message that does not apply to our world, because he didn’t even quite capture the subculture that he wanted to capture.  The genre of this movie, I’m afraid to say, is “geeksploitation.”

Comment #103: Mandos  on  10/12  at  09:20 PM

I second MDrew @62 and 63.  There are moral (and legal!) rules that govern casting a living, identifiable person in a bad light, and this movie pretty plainly violates them.  Citizen Kane, which is held up as an analogue, does not violate these rules, because it explicitly uses plenty of bracketing devices to divorce the story from the facts of Hearst’s life.  This isn’t just because it picks a fictional name for the title character, but also, as CBrachyrhynchos @100 points out, the story is explicitly presented as the recollections of various unreliable narrators.

Some folks in this thread seem to want to present The Social Network as if it also makes use of the latter, but no, it just ain’t so.  The flashbacks are not presented as the unreliable narration of some identifiable character.  You can only see them that way if you want to rationalize the liberties the movie takes in its depiction of the very real Mr. Zuckerberg.  If anything, what the flashbacks tend to do fairly consistently is to discredit Mark and support Eduardo.  Are we supposed to conclude then that the flashbacks are predominantly from Eduardo’s recollection?  Well, the movie isn’t framed in a way to tell us that; and the characterization of Mark on deposition day, which is definitely not presented the narration of any character in the movie, is also discreditable.  The flashbacks consistently discredit Mark because they’re true and Mark really is the most discreditable character in the movie.  To conclude this isn’t to fail to appreciate some subtlety of the film; it’s simply to refuse to invent a rationalization that makes it look better than it is.

Comment #104: sacundim  on  10/12  at  10:05 PM

I absolutely would not see a biopic to attain a better understanding of the subject.

I think that you and filmmakers come at this from a perspective quite different than that of the general moviegoing audience. I don’t think anyone came out of JFK, for example, impressed with the degree to which film editing had taken a leap forward,  nor did they come into the film interested in seeing how Oliver Stone would make deft use of a camera, or even what place the movie would take in cinematic history. Rather, they were interested in having a better understanding of the JFK assassination or at least of the conspiracy theories of the time.

You may object that the audience should be attuned to the “language of film[makers]”, but since film is a mass medium, its purpose is actually supposed to be tuned towards the audience, so films are naturally going to be judged by those standards.

Comment #105: Tyro  on  10/12  at  10:10 PM

Just re: sacundlm @105, I’m not actually accusing the film of crossing the line.  the fact is, I haven’t seen it.  What I’m addressing is Amanda’s argument in the post, which just doesn’t fly, especially the comparison to CK.  She seems to be claiing that the only reason Welles made the changes to the context he did was because for some reason he could do it without running into the eye-rolling problem, whereas Sorkin and Fincher plainly had not other choice.  But of course they did have the choice - it’s just that the cache of the film is precisely that it’s dealing with real people who did real things in our real world that we’re all dealing with.  Welles, on the other hand, clearly wanted to make his statement about a Hearst-like figure, but clearly also wanted as much artistic space to do that within as possible, so he created an entirely new mythical world, and allegorical figure with which to do it.  INdeed, as much as Amanda can say, “What is it people don’t get about poetic license and the fact that no film based on real events can ever be the reality,” and then cite Citizen Kane, one could just as much say, “What it it you don’t get about allegory<i> that you think <i>Citizen Kane is just an example of a true story in which a few facts have been changed?”

Again, acknowledging that I haven’t seen the film, it seems to me that there is legitimately a lot of room in which to faithfully tell the sotry, beause the historical record is indeed quite fragmented and contested.  And I don’t begrudge Sorkin either a) making the movie, or b) having to interpolate a lot of the events because of conflicting claims.  From what I understand (much from this audio http://www.onpointradio.org/2010/09/social-network-sorkin-facebook), Sorkin made the decision to present the story in an indeterminate, perspective-dependent way, and I think that is probably an pretty good choice both artistically and historically given the state of the record, but again I have not seen the film.  What in my view wouldn’t be responsible would have been for Sorkin to approach this problem of the uncertainty of the events by filling in details for which he had no basis in the record just in order to help to make a stronger critical or polemical point about his subject (who is a real person).  And, again *I do not know if he did this*.  I’m responding to Marcotte’s explicit defense of doing that in the context of this exact film.

Comment #106: MDrew  on  10/12  at  11:12 PM

I also wanted to agree with most of the comments of medrawt above, but only to suggest that there needn’t be an admission of fuzzy thinking about the issue of this person still being alive and doing stuff.  That’s definitely one of a few factors about the context of this story that make inserting details in a film of it to further an ideological agenda clearly not defensible.  Another would be the clear pretense to verisimilitude in the movie, even if the historical record is indeterminate.  This is not I’m Not Here which was clearly a nonrealist artistic riff on various versions of the public image of Bob Dylan.  Another factor is the recency of these events, and the fact at this movie is part of the very first wave of public accounts about this story.  It’s damn near a piece of interpretive journalism as much as a fictional work.  This sets it apart from a movie like JFK which clearly was a very late entrant in the lore of a particular story in which an entire industry of speculation had arisen.  The last factor that heightens the level of fealty we should expect from this movies is the relative obscurity and insignificant power (during the time of the story) of this person and this story.  Facebook has 500 million users, of which I am one and have been for years, but until a month ago, I didn’t know who this guy was.  I knew Facebook was started at an eastern college, but I didn’t know anything about this person or the stry of Facebook’s creation.  Contrast this to George W. Bush.  Oliver Stone made a movie, that, like this one perhaps, I think made some pretty major leaps in furtherance of an agenda, and I did find those somewhat irresponsible, even while I found the movie quite compelling.  But the social station, political power,  and public profile of the subject make a difference in how much liberty a fimmaker should take with the facts as best he understands them.  Harvard undergrads certainly aren’t down and out, but they remain private citizens and for the most part anonymous and obcscure.  If a named account of their lives is going to be made into a film, they ought not to have their dirty laundry made falsely dirtier just to serve the writer’s/director’s ideological purposes.  Political figures, presidents in particular, have no such presumption of .  I still don’t condone making outright false representations of things in their lives, but certainly these are the most public of public figures, and to some extent they have no choice but that their public image belongs to the public, for the public to do what they want with.  After all, they offered it up to the public, in polished form, to advance their career; surely it follows that we can do what we want with it.  I don’t think the same follows for just any individual someone should take it to their head to make a film about, even a billionaire.

Comment #107: MDrew  on  10/12  at  11:12 PM

MDrew @107: yeah, I definitely made it sound like you said the movie crossed the line.  Ooops.  So, to clarify, I saw the movie, and I think it crossed the line you drew.

Comment #108: sacundim  on  10/13  at  07:53 PM

@Chet

The fact that your imagination clearly never works when you are awake explains a lot about why you insist on posting here.

Comment #109: Atheist, A Feminist  on  10/13  at  08:07 PM
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