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Next entry: South Carolina primary Previous entry: If American History Only Applies To White People, You Get Some Interesting Results

How to do feminist fashion, now that we’ve accepted that it exists?

Fashion

Can fashion be feminist? It's a question that's gotten some traction now that Ms. has a full-length article about it in their most recent edition, excerpted here. My take on this perennial question is that it's asking the wrong question. Asking if "fashion" can be feminist is like asking if English can be feminist. Those on the "no" side could always point to the sexist history of the language that persists in certain common words, but at the end of the day, it's not like feminists in English-speaking countries are going to stop speaking English to make a point. A better answer is, "Language is dynamic and therefore neutral, and we can manipulate it for feminist ends." For instance, we can write feminist things. Or we can replace words like "chairman" with "chairperson".

Same thing with fashion. One problem is that people tend to think of fashion and think of high fashion only---or maybe high fashion mixed with a little bit of trendy but cheap fashion---which is like thinking of English and only thinking of literary fiction, with a couple well-regarded genre novels tossed in for flavor. Because of this, people mistakenly think they can opt out of fashion. They do this by saying things like, "I don't care what I wear, clothes are just for covering the body." (That clothes cover the body is true enough in cold weather, but honestly, people could just walk around naked in the hot weather if clothes had no value as a semiotic system. Their value as preserving modesty is over-rated; even cultures that don't fetishize "modesty"---including some parts of America---have clothes.) I've read enough on this subjec to know that the sociological view is that clothes' primary function is as fashion, and concerns like comfort are less important. Honestly, even modesty is a semiotic function of clothes; that you conceal your naughty bits doesn't mean that people don't know they're there. Which is why different cultures define appropriate modesty differently.

But I digress. The point is there is no opt-out clause. If you don't care and just thrown any old thing on, the message you send the world is, "I don't care and just throw any old thing on." Which is fine, but don't pretend you aren't sending a message just as surely as someone who carefully selects and color-coordinates an outfit is doing. 

Nor is fashion strictly a female thing. High fashion pays more attention to women than men, but because all people wear clothes, we all participate in the system. Personally, I find what' called "street fashion", i.e. fashion put together by ordinary people without a lot of money but who put a high value on self-expression and creativity, to be the most interesting fashion of all. It tends to be more interested in what is flattering, and more fun to look at than 90% of what fashion designers put together. If you take this view of fashion as a whole, then, I would say that of course fashion can be feminist. Even fashion that puts an emphasis on flashiness and beauty can be. Samhita and I discussed this on our recent podcast. Personally, I'm a big fan of using fashion to reclaim and subvert strict gender norms put on women. For instance, I love it when women reject the obnoxious pressure to be subtle in order to be considered "classy"; bring on the bright colors and flashy accessories. Some times we all have to be subtle for certain situations, but I love not having to be. 

While there's often a lot of discussion of these issues on an academic level, one thing I find that's often missing is direct, pragmatic discussion of how to make fashion choices that express feminist values, especially if you want to be both feminist and look good. For that, I really appreciate Greta Christina doing a once-a-week look at fashion from a pragmatic point of view. She's not doing it as an expression of feminist values, but I think that's a byproduct of the project. For instance, yesterday's post is about the difference between fashion advice geared towards concealing the supposed flaws in your body and fashion advice about putting your best foot forward. 

The distinction between the two can sometimes be hard to grasp---part of the problem is most fashion magazines conflate the two---but aside from learning that you don't have to be mangled and uncomfortable to look good, it's probably the most important aspect of doing fashion in a feminist way. One really good example is the question of high heels. A lot of short women are drawn to really high heels because they think it conceals how short they are. This is bad for two reasons. One, high heels are painful and should be used only rarely, if at all. Two, it actually looks kind of weird for short women to wear really tall heels. It's out of proportion with your body, and looks like you've been jacked up, making your legs look out of proportion. Tall women actually tend to look better in really tall heels. If you approach fashion as embracing your body instead of trying to "fix" it, it's much easier for short women to see that it's just as well to wear low or no heels. And of course, tall women are better off not trying to hide it, I think, though there's no shame in wearing a shoe that says, "I won't be leaving early tonight because my feet are killing me."

In my experience, feminists who embrace fashion tend to look awesome, because they eschew the push towards conformity and embrace their bodies as-is. Big boobs? Flaunt 'em. Fat? Sweet, you can get away with big accessories. Flat-chested? Lucky you (or me, in this case), you look great in those loud prints that others tend to overlook. It's way more fun that way. 

Style guides I've read that try to be more "embrace yourself as-is" and less "oh my god, hide your shame!" and can recommend are anything put out by the publishers of Lucky, such as The Lucky Shopping Manual: Building and Improving Your Wardrobe Piece by Piece or The Lucky Guide to Mastering Any Style: How to Wear Iconic Looks and Make Them Your Own. They're a little more conservative than I am, fashion-wise, and they do screw up on occasion, but by and large they embrace the idea of embracing your body as-is. For instance, they advise fat women to wear string bikinis instead of try to cover up, on the grounds that most bathing suits that are more modest tend to just cut you off in awkward places, whereas bikinis you tie on create a more clean line. More gleeful and provocative is The Fashion File: Advice, Tips, and Inspiration from the Costume Designer of Mad Men, which also briefly addresses men's wear, as well, and can be used for women who prefer that kind of clothing, though there may be better style guides out there for that. She also has a couple of moments of reflectively treating certain features as flaws, but she mostly stays away from that and puts the emphasis on flaunt-what-you-got positivity. I learned a lot from that book, especially in terms of not being afraid of colors or patterns. 

Other thoughts and recommendations welcome in comments!

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 12:21 PM • (78) Comments

I am by no means as innovative as other women are about clothes, and unfortunately I care excessively what others will think of me, but on occasion I like to wear clothes that are more masculine (even though they are women’s clothes), such as ties or frock coats, and while most people tend to like them, there’s always the comment “huh, isn’t that something men wear?”. That’s the extent of my innovation.

I have two pairs of high-heeled boots: one of them is really comfortable and I could wear it all they long if I wanted to (I don’t), and the other is a bit less comfortable and I barely wear it, just on special occasions with a very particular outfit. The rest of my shoes are mostly flat or with very comfortable low heels. I refuse to be in pain. Some friends of mine got me a pair of stiletto boots and, while I love the boots, sorry, I simply can’t do it.

I like fashion, and I think whether we admit it or not, clothes say a lot about the person who’s wearing them, so what we choose to wear is an excellent chance (for those who can afford it) to send our own personal message to the world.

Comment #1: Barefoot  on  01/21  at  01:56 PM

while most people tend to like them, there’s always the comment “huh, isn’t that something men wear?”

last time I was in Germany, my mom took me shopping for some comfortable summer clothes. Men’s khaki shorts tend to be far more comfortable and sturdy than women’s, so that’s what I ended up picking. And the silly person at the register actually felt it necessary to “warn” my mom that she was buying boy pants for a girl

*sigh*

Comment #2: jadehawk  on  01/21  at  02:01 PM

so what we choose to wear is an excellent chance (for those who can afford it) to send our own personal message to the world.

huh. I guess my message then is “I fucking hate shopping, and I have to dress each day before caffeination kicks in.”

Comment #3: jadehawk  on  01/21  at  02:03 PM

For instance, I love it when women reject the obnoxious pressure to be subtle in order to be considered “classy”; bring on the bright colors and flashy accessories. Some times we all have to be subtle for certain situations, but I love not having to be.

I hate wearing dull or “subtle” colors, and I look like death warmed over in them, anyway. The most subtle I can do is black, white and gray, but that’s boring!

I wear lots of purple, red, burgundy, true blue, emerald green and even flashy bright clear turquoise. Put me in coral or gold or lime green, and people have literally asked me if I needed to go to the doctor. I look that sickly and wan in it.

So tell me what isn’t classy about any woman in a red dress in a good, tailored cut for her figure and a shade that flatters her coloring. With a gorgeous matching patterned scarf. Put a hat, gloves and pumps with it, and that screams class and elegance to me more than some boring drab color and cut that doesn’t suit her at all.

Comment #4: Aquaria  on  01/21  at  02:18 PM

Which hey, is a legitimate message. My only point was that what you wear says something about you to others; there isn’t an opt-out. What matters then is what you want to say. If, “I hate shopping” is what you want to say, that’s super legit. I would never deny that. But I do think fashion advice is really helpful for people who want to bring what they want to say in line with what they are saying with their clothes. Just like with written and spoken language, there’s an art to making yourself understood.

Comment #5: Amanda Marcotte  on  01/21  at  02:23 PM

My comment was meant for @3. @4: I agree. Red is like my favorite color. But a surprising number of people fear it. And honestly, that’s fine if attracting attention is not what you want to do. I just reject the common conflation of “blending well” with “classy”. I just don’t really like the word “classy”, honestly. I want a clean break between the notion that wealth and privilege are necessary to look good.

Comment #6: Amanda Marcotte  on  01/21  at  02:26 PM

A few years ago I received two style guides as gifts: The Pocket Stylist and Tim Gunn’s A Guide to Quality, Taste, and Style.  Here’s what each of them has to say on the subject of sleevelessness:

Pocket Stylist: “To my eye, sleeveless and cap-sleeve tops are not your friends at any size unless your arms are toned.  For the millions of us that do not have toned arms - or who hold weight in our arms - our best bet is to cover them.”

Tim Gunn: “It may seem obvious, but remember that fashionable body shapes come and go.  Look at any photo taken at a nightclub in the forties and fifties; many a flabby upper arm can be seen going to town on the dance floor, no doubt its owner feeling just fine about her appearance.  Today we gasp because we are constantly told that unless a body part is toned it should be kept, like the crazed first wife of Mr. Rochester, locked away to keep from offending the new governess.  This is not a call to reveal all potbellies or don hot pants, but it is a request to keep some perspective when evaluating your flaws.”

Guess which book I am more inclined to use?

Comment #7: burgundy  on  01/21  at  02:29 PM

“Can fashion be feminist” is the wrong question.  There can be a feminist analysis of fashion, the way women are judged on their appearance, how mainstream clothing like heels or the focus on super-skinny women damages health- but there’s no way to say that looking fashionable is a feminist value.  At best, in a hypothetical ideal universe, they’re not related.  Most of the time, it’s not possible to separate clothing advice on how to “look good” from the the very anti-feminist, mainstream view that women have a moral obligation to look decorative and sexually available to men.

I see the advice on “how to look good, but you’re doing it wrong by trying to cover up your flaws, instead you should look good by…” as one more iteration of, “you’re presenting your body wrong; and how you present your body should be important to you as a woman.”  In another version of this, I’ve heard “you should lose weight.  But not in an icky girly way of hating your fat.  For health!  Exercise and eating right are healthy!  And being healthy and (just coincidentally) mainstream attractive is feminist.”  It’s the same kind of anti-feminist statement, restated.

Comment #8: Nimravid  on  01/21  at  02:35 PM

When it comes to dissecting fashion I enjoy the blog Thread for Thought. She’s less about current trends and spends more time analyzing the messages that clothes send in relation to social history. She had a neat post about the changing role of men in the 40’s - 60’s and how their suits changed from emphasizing a broad chest to a more boyish figure.

I cannot freaking stand the “in-crowd” of high fashion but I’ll admit that the more innovative designers really do interest me (and that I spend some time occasionally doodling my own designs…and am addicted to Project Runway). Still it’s impossible not to think about fucked up gender roles with fashion, because it’s just SO in-your-face and as Amanda says, you can’t really opt out.

In movies whenever they want to convey a feminist woman who is not being made fun of by the filmmakers (at least until the “fun-feminists” went mainstream) they always just have her dress like a man. And it always looks elegant and put-together because she just always happens to be thin enough to wear untailored men’s clothes anyway. I’ve always absolutely loved androgynous clothing and looks (for both men and women): Audrey Hepburn, flappers, Marlene Dietrich….

But here I am with bazooka boobs and a pronounced lady-butt. Androgyny is not going to work for me. Yet the only clothes that seem to be designed for my body are total sex-pot ‘50s throwbacks (not my thing). I can and do work around that but my point is that fashion is NOT complete self-expression. There are several “stories,” I guess, written around different body types (and races) that simply repeat themselves and there’s little crossover. The fact that if your body looks like [x] you cannot “pull off” a certain look traps people into strict subsets of social roles.

And then there’s the other considerations like buying ethical clothes, what can you afford, what is healthy and comfortable to wear, etc. etc.

Comment #9: MoseyMcShuffleson  on  01/21  at  02:37 PM

What really turned me around on how I dress wasn’t even realizing what messages I was sending - it was realizing the difference in how I felt.  When I wear something cute and flattering that makes me happy if I look in the mirror, I feel much better than when I wear something lumpy and ill-fitting.  I dress more formally than a lot of people in my office, and I don’t always go casual for casual Friday, and that’s because I feel more energetic and confident in a nice skirt and blouse than I do in khakis and a polo shirt.

And I agree that “is fashion feminist” is probably the wrong question to ask.  It reminds me of a Charlie Glickman blog post on evaluating sex acts as empowering or not empowering.  The question is not the act (or the article of clothing) itself, but the process of getting there.  If a woman dresses a certain way because she feels she has to conform to a particular type of femininity, that’s a problem.  If a woman is using clothing to communicate an identity she embraces, then hooray!

Comment #10: burgundy  on  01/21  at  02:38 PM

I just want to know what brand those flats are in the photo! I’m reading this on my iPhone and the brand name is too blurry for me to read.

Comment #11: Raging Red  on  01/21  at  02:39 PM

@ burgundy “Today we gasp because we are constantly told that unless a body part is toned it should be kept, like the crazed first wife of Mr. Rochester, locked away to keep from offending the new governess”
Ha! I will remember this.

@Nimravid #8 I completely agree.

Comment #12: MoseyMcShuffleson  on  01/21  at  02:46 PM

I am THRILLED to be seeing fashion and beauty being looked at from a feminist perspective that’s more complex than simply going over old ground. We know plenty of problems in the fashion and beauty industries; we know the ways women have internalized them. And we also know that there are plenty of feminists who embrace both and do so in interesting, creative, straightforward ways.

I highly recommend Already Pretty, a fashion blog whose owner, Sally McGraw, is explicitly feminist. She comes from a self-acceptance perspective and it shows in her advice, all the while with the undercurrent that fashion can be a tool of self-acceptance—and that part of the idea is to be comfortable with how you present yourself so that you can share your larger gifts with the world.

I belong to a Feminist Fashion Bloggers ring—it never really took off the way we’d hoped, but not because there aren’t plenty of feminist fashion bloggers (more that we were all busy doing feminist fashion blogging that we didn’t have time to dedicate to blogging about being feminist fashion bloggers). I write The Beheld, a beauty site that’s feminist, though I’m much more of the critical/analytical end than the beauty tips end. My reason for starting is pretty much what’s identified in this post: There is no opt-out clause of beauty any more than there is for fashion. There’s opt-out of makeup, sure, but the way we style our hair—or even the choice to abstain from makeup—are encoded with all sorts of feminist and sociological meanings. So instead of brushing those aside as frivolous, let’s look at them. That’s the only way we can broaden the narrative.

Comment #13: Autumn  on  01/21  at  03:24 PM

I like watching “What Not to Wear” because you can see them break down the notions that people get tied into.  I am always amazed at how everyone always looks better, no matter their body type, in a nice dress and high heels, even people that never wore either before.  There’s just no fighting it, gotta rock the high heels, not every day maybe but you got to be able to pull those out.

Comment #14: ewellone  on  01/21  at  03:32 PM

As long as I don’t have to see advertising for feminist high heels and wonder bras I’m all for it.

Comment #15: Baruk  on  01/21  at  03:38 PM

I get hung-up on terminology. I prefer “style” to fashion. Fashionas an institution IS inherently tied to high fashion and elitism, because making it a trend-related art form with set rules as opposed to individual expression inherently begets a strict social hierarchy. And to be honest “embrace yourself as is” still involves those rules, since it’s precriptive about what clothes you should wear to “enhance” rather than “downplay”. I feel iffy about any prescriptive rules governing human appearance. But I’ll use “fashion” for the purposes of this post.

Honestly, I think once you accept that you have to participate in institutions like fashion to live in the world (like many other things that are riddled with patriarchy but impossible to forgo), you might as well wear anything you want, because if we’re only talking about the cultural messages outfits send, the value difference between hyperfeminities and what normally is seen as hip feminist fashion is negligible and complicated (i.e.: lots of the things that come under fire get that because of the critic’s classist/racist/slut-shaming biases, and as you pointed out, not doing certain things doesn’t make someone’s outfit immune from being interpreted in a sexist manner by chodes).

The only values I feel comfortable applying to fashion are related to materials used (sustainable, vegan if that’s part of your value system), who makes the clothes (not slave labour, not people being sexually harassed by Dov Charney), and damage to the environment (shipping, etc.). Cultural messages sent by clothing are too fraught a batteground. There is also the matter of tees with offensive slogans and the like, but they’re an exception, because most clothes don’t give such a blunt message (i.e.: a Nickelback shirt makes it reasonably clear someone has poor taste, which is blunt- other types of clothing that don’t have words on them send social messages that might not be as accurate).

That said, I buy a lot of high fashion label clothes and pay attention to the prescriptive rules I was just deriding. I don’t think of this as a feminist action, particularly as I might have transitioned or still be wearing nothing but sweatpants if I hadn’t been told to my face by bullies in high school that they hated me because I wasn’t hip or girly enough (and was rewarded when I started wearing makeup by facing less bullying and street harassment, which cemented my impression that I would be in danger if I didn’t wear makeup and nice clothes all the time). Now it feels like my gender presentation reflects who I am, but that’s not necessarily a happy feeling, because what I mean by that is that part of who I am is a person who gets used to doing what other people demand over time. I “enjoy” putting on makeup these days rather than seeing it as a chore, but it’s still a very bittersweet kind of enjoyment. I guess my own experience with what feels like being “forced” into fashion and then developing stockholm syndrome for it has given me a sour standpoint on the whole thing.

Sorry for the tl;dr and tangent, but I guess it’s sort of an emotional subject for me.

Comment #16: Treefinger  on  01/21  at  03:40 PM

I don’t want to flaunt my 32HH boobs, because that gets me attention I don’t want, but I will say that I looked and felt a lot better when I stopped wearing stupid “minimizer” bras and started wearing better bras that actually fit me. (Which, for some reason, are exclusively English. I have no idea why American companies find it impossible to make bras with cup sizes bigger than DDD. It makes no sense.)

Comment #17: Amphigorey  on  01/21  at  03:44 PM

Eh.  I can’t opt out of fashion as a concept, but my style will never be fashionable.  And that’s okay, because it’s more fun to do what I want than try to figure out what others want to look at.  Flouting fashion norms is something I’ve been doing all my life, although when I was younger it was by being dowdy and frumpy.  Liking myself more has gotten me out of that stage and into clothes I actually enjoy wearing, but whatever you call my style, it’s not stylish.  And again, that’s okay, b/c I like it.  I’m pretty sure the message I’m sending is, “Offbeat and okay with that.”

Comment #18: bomberE  on  01/21  at  04:22 PM

Treefinger, I’m sorry.  That sounds like a rotten experience.

Comment #19: bomberE  on  01/21  at  04:23 PM

Treefinger @ 16:  I had a very different experience regarding makeup and clothes.  My mom and sisters are all very tomboyish and in the rural area where I grew up, girls and women were expected to not be overtly masculine, but wearing makeup and dressing up were sen as frivolous and unnecessary.  However, I’ve always been *very* feminine and I love makeup and dresses heels and all that.  And while I was never actively bullied for it, I did get a lot of harassment and teasing for it and I got a reputation for being “prissy.”  Still do, sometimes, when I go home for a visit.  And what all that has done for me is that, while I love dressy and sparky clothes, I wish I had the confidence to really wear some more daring/bold stuff than what I actually do.  I actually feel a little bit defiant, even now that I’m 35, when I put on a dress or makeup just for hanging about the house on a weekend just because that’s what I feel like wearing.

Guess it just goes to show that no matter what we do, we’re totally doing it wrong.

Comment #20: ks  on  01/21  at  04:25 PM

Nim, I honestly don’t think it’s as black-and-white as that. Frankly, shaming women who want to be attractive and therefore attract normal human things like sexual interest, flirting, and positive attention shades rapidly from “feminist desire for women to be more than sex objects” into “slut-shaming”. I reject the notion that there’s no nuance. Like language, fashion is complicated and can convey nuance. A lot of women are remarkably good at dressing in a way that says, “I am attractive but not an object.”

I don’t disagree that some outfits just scream “object with no subjectivity worth respecting”. The most obvious is anything where the clothes are just making you miserable, such as women who wear teeny dresses in cold weather and look about to die. Putting out a coat won’t make you hideous, ladies. Any man who thinks so doesn’t respect you.

Comment #21: Amanda Marcotte  on  01/21  at  04:56 PM

I’m wary of tying all clothing choices to self-expression. A MacDonalds work uniform is probably the clearest example of clothing that really has nothing to do with the image a person wishes to project. Maybe though I’m just bitter because I know that if I didn’t have to worry about money and getting a job I would look much different than I do now (I would favour stuff like facial piercings, purple hair, doc martens…which I guess says something about my age).

Comment #22: JilliefromChile  on  01/21  at  05:00 PM

To be clear, I’m in no way suggesting that being attractive should be anyone’s priority. If it’s not, that’s not a problem, and I don’t see why it should be. Go with your muse. I’m just saying that I think, being attractive while also being considered a full, well-rounded person is a common desire, shared by men and women alike, and probably would be without a patriarchy. What patriarchy collapsing would mainly do is increase options, where women who liked clothes that are considered “men’s” clothes would have more choices, and vice versa. But please, seriously, I don’t care if people have no desire to send the “I want to look attractive” or whatever message. I’m just noting that there isn’t an opt-out clause. Empowering yourself starts with knowing what you want to say. I see some people who deliberately set out to look ugly, and frankly, I support that, too. Especially if they accomplish their goals.

Comment #23: Amanda Marcotte  on  01/21  at  05:00 PM

Mosey, if I may: I’ve seen some curvy women who have found that a three piece suit works well. Though I suppose it would probably have to be well-tailored. :(

Comment #24: Amanda Marcotte  on  01/21  at  05:02 PM

I’m not sure if “can fashion be feminist?” is the right question. Self expression is feminist, and clothes are a form of self-expression.

I want a clean break between the notion that wealth and privilege are necessary to look good.

The thing is that “look good” is as subjective as “speak well.” It’s issues of privilege and “being classy” are going to play into it. I place a priority on clothes that “fit right,” but as everyone remembers, what “fit right” in the early 90s (when we were wearing baggier clothes) is different from what “fits right” now (when the bias is towards more form-fitting styles).

Comment #25: Tyro  on  01/21  at  05:08 PM

@15: I hear you, Baruk.  A big part of my feminist values in fashion is that I stalwartly believe women can look good—-if that’s what they want—-without succumbing to high heels and push-up bras, or anything that makes you miserable. I don’t wear bras that lift anything, and only wear a cup bra on the very rare occasion I need it to fill out a vintage shirt that I couldn’t resist. If something really needs a heel, I’m a big fan of the 1.5 inch heel (though it’s hard to find!) but more things look good with flats than people realize. Boots are awesome for that, though impractical in the summer. I love make-up and tend to go with dramatic looks, but I also think feeling like you “have” to wear it is fucked up. Men don’t have to wear it, and let’s face it, it’s not because their features are somehow more pronounced than women’s.

Comment #26: Amanda Marcotte  on  01/21  at  05:10 PM

Jill, c’mon. You have to know that’s a strawman.

All good points, Tyro, but to be clear, I was saying I don’t like the word “classy” because frankly, it’s still tied in with class connotations.

Comment #27: Amanda Marcotte  on  01/21  at  05:15 PM

@ks, yeah, I know it works that way around too, which I why I don’t assume other women who dress like me started off (or continue) thinking of it as crushing drudgery. I’ve seen many of my friends whose joy in finding their style outweighed or equalled the insecurities they experienced about their weight and appearance as they were growing up, so I wouldn’t ever claim that efforts to look good can’t bring people a sense of happiness. In fact, where I live, I think (and hope) that’s pretty much the usual experience for the average cis woman.

Like many other things, everyone’s experience of style/fashion/beauty/body image and the related emotions are different and that’s why I would hesitate to offer any blanket suggestions other than the obvious ethical sourcing questions I posed above. Theoretical ideas about what a truly progressive fashion world would look like are interesting, but in the here and now my advice would just be to pursue whatever best balances your personal aesthetics, comfort (physical or mental) and outside pressures to your own satisfaction.

Also, if I sounded a little harsh on people who work out what looks good on people in my original comment, I didn’t quite mean to be. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with pointing out that neon colours clash with pale, cool-toned skin, or that bold prints look even bolder on large-breasted women. Where it gets annoying is in those pages of fashion magazines where they make fun of people for not always adhering to what looks subtle or is on-trend (Glamour magazine used to do this with regular people on the street, with their eyes blacked out, but I noticed they only use celebrities on those pages now). They should aspire to be like (non-snobby) food writers: trying to establish things that go well together, for people who want the advice, without chastizing the odd person who likes to drink red wine with white meat.

Comment #28: Treefinger  on  01/21  at  05:21 PM

A fantastic post, and one I’ll have to keep in mind for whenever my pre-teen daughter gets hit by puberty. The idea of wearing clothes one feels good in, celebrating instead of fighting my body shape, is one I took long to embrace, and I’d be glad to shorten her way.

For me a big breakthrough shoe-wise was accepting the size of my feet. At twenty, years of my mother “Can’t you take half a number lower? Those are so huge!” had left my toes crooked and full of callous tissue (I’m not, sadly, joking). Now, closer to fifty than to forty, my feet are pristine, and I can run faster and walk longer than I could a quarter century ago. I wouldn’t wear the flats you pictured because they aren’t comfortable with my shape of feet, and I never wear heels of any description; most of my shoes come from hiking supplies store, and since pregnancies have widened my feet I also buy men’s shoes occasionally. They make me feel great.

 

Comment #29: Dami  on  01/21  at  05:33 PM

My mom always guided me towards more subtle, blending-in fashion choices when I was growing up—steered me away from bright colors, bold patterns, large accessories, anything attention-grabbing. I’m sure this is because she was taught the same thing by her mom, and on back. There was a time in high school when everything I owned was black or navy blue.

I’ve been working on not being afraid to be noticed. I don’t necessarily mean dressing “sexily,” wearing something short, low-cut, or tight—which is what people always assume I mean, because they assume “sexual attention from men” is the only possible kind of attention to be had from clothing choices.

I mean wearing a bright/bold color or pattern, an unusual texture, big dangly earrings, an attention-getting red or bright pink lipstick, bright, unexpected nail polish (like green or blue), or clothing of an unusual, distinctive cut or style. Basically, something that won’t blend into the background. Something that might actually *gasp* be noticed enough to risk someone’s disapproval.

(My mom’s been doing the same thing, interestingly.)

It takes energy to do this, and I do often fall back on default, blend-in clothes. But dressing to fade into the background, for me, goes along with trying to fade into the background in all kinds of other ways—being afraid to take a risk, being afraid to speak up when I wanted something, being afraid to highlight my talents, being afraid to vocally disagree with someone and stick to my argument rather than giving in to smooth things over.

And yeah, it means that sometimes I might screw up and people will notice. I might try a shade of lipstick that doesn’t go with my skin tone, and look weird and awkward in public. But that’s not the end of the world; you just wash it off and try again. And again, it goes along with other ways of being self-confident: if I ask for something I want, someone might say no and laugh at me for even asking. But that’s not the end of the world, either.

So in that way, yeah. Fashion is feminist for me. It’s a venue for practicing self-confidence and risk-taking.

Comment #30: snowmentality  on  01/21  at  06:33 PM

Gretta Christina made another point about how dismissing fashion as frivolous is a feminist issue. It’s another way to make something feminine less than. Even if you don’t have a great interest in fashion and prefer to dress conservative, I would argue not to belittle women who had have a very loud style.

Comment #31: hlynn117  on  01/21  at  06:44 PM

@Comment #24: Amanda Marcotte

Totally.

I guess determining what “looks good” is itself a feminist mind-bender. You have to separate which kinds of approval you want and what kinds you’re getting, and then there’s daring to admit to yourself that you think certain things look good even when they’re not in fashion or mainstream.

When I started drawing portraits I had a more limited idea of what is attractive; but after spending hours staring at all types of people face-to-face while I draw them I find a lot more human faces and bodies to be attractive now. That changed fashion for me because I’m learning to recognize when I truly like a style and when I don’t, whether it’s fashionable or not. When I switch off the judgement factor (you know, when you see the way someone else is dressed and think, “they’re doing it wrong!”) I was able to appreciate what other people are going for with the way they style themselves; I would define that change as feminist. Female “self-expression” cannot co-eist with a culture where anything expression of woman-ness is game for extraordinarily harsh criticism, because what is being said will necessarily fall on deaf ears.

Comment #32: MoseyMcShuffleson  on  01/21  at  09:02 PM

A few years ago I received two style guides as gifts: The Pocket Stylist and Tim Gunn’s A Guide to Quality, Taste, and Style.

I really enjoy Tim Gunn’s short lived style show because of the calm approach and greater perspective he brought to the entire process. He seemed to understand that, bad or good, an individual’s wardrobe is personal and not something to be completely trashed. I liked his list of ten essentials which is mostly stuff that is always in fashion in some variation (white shirt, dress pants, black dress.) I like it even more now that I know the men’s version is nearly the same stuff just with suits and blazers instead of dresses and skirts. The list fully covered my mother’s one rule about what to have in your closet: always have something you can wear to a funeral.


Mosey at #9: If you really like the look and can afford it, go ahead and invest in getting a men’s suit and shirts tailored for you. A lot of people seem to forget that some men carry weight on their chest and thighs too and if a garment is sculpted with that in mind, you don’t ruin the lines.

Comment #33: scrumby  on  01/21  at  09:05 PM

I really like the fact that for men, there is a trivial default of khakis and a decent button-down shirt that matches your clothing.  I wish there were a similar uniform available for women.  I suppose the same one works.

Comment #34: Punditus Maximus  on  01/21  at  09:33 PM

I know high heels make some women look good, but I see those things and just think, “footbinding.”

Comment #35: Punditus Maximus  on  01/21  at  09:35 PM

Which hey, is a legitimate message. My only point was that what you wear says something about you to others; there isn’t an opt-out. What matters then is what you want to say.

it doesn’t matter what anyone “wants” to say with their clothing. Because unless you’re conforming to the very narrow socially prescribed meanings for clothing, your clothes are “speaking in tongues” rather than speaking a language. They become a rorschach test making people “hear” whatever it is that their own biases, preferences, and acculturations are making them hear, not what you want to say.
To use myself as an example, while I might want to say “I don’t care and I’m uncaffeinated”, people will hear whatever they want to hear; they might hear that I’m poor; or that I’m a slob; or even that I’m a butch dyke, or a hipster, or a refugee from Seattle (and some actual refugees from seattle might actually think I’m being fashionable). None of which are what I’d “want to say” with my clothing, some of which not even being true, but that’s what people will interpret my clothing as, anyway. And if I decided to dress differently or with more care, people would “hear” different things, but still not what I’d “want” them to hear unless I started conforming to socially prescriptive fashions.

The same goes for such value-judgments as looking “good” or “ugly”. Things that you hear as “ugly” will be heard by someone else as “beautiful”, and who knows what the person being read thus actually meant to say.

IOW, I evidently can’t opt out of being judged by other people based on my clothing; but neither can I control how they will judge me if I don’t conform to the narrowminded social language of clothing that prescribes meanings such as “professional”, “classy”, “slutty”, etc. So, ultimately, the only think that can matter is how one reads one’s own style, and for that fashion-advice is hardly necessary.

Comment #36: jadehawk  on  01/21  at  09:43 PM

A friend of a friend of mine posted a picture on Facebook of New England Patriots-themed fetish heels. My friend’s response was immediate “must have” and all I could think is “Wow. Mixed message design much?”

Comment #37: BrianX  on  01/21  at  09:49 PM

I love haute couture from a design perspective, but I’ve been a 501’s-and-a t-shirt kind of guy since, well, forever.  Growing up in Los Angeles, I didn’t/don’t have to bother with winter clothes and while it does get cold here, especially at night, a jacket will take care of that, no need for layers.  I go to the opera and symphony a lot and luckily, a nice clean pair of 501’s, some nice shoes and a button-down long-sleeved shirt is acceptable here as well.  Guys who dress up for the opera in tuxes look out of place; that’s for Vienna or Paris.

I used to work for a bank and I hated having to wear a tie and jacket.  What a useless accessory a tie is!  Luckily, I’ve worked in the office of a construction company for the last 7 years, so it’s back to 501’s and Polo type shirts.  Unfortunately, buying shirts that fit correctly is a trial as scrumby notes:

A lot of people seem to forget that some men carry weight on their chest and thighs too and if a garment is sculpted with that in mind, you don’t ruin the lines.

I have a size 18 neck and am barrel-chested, it can be hard to find shirts that fit that don’t look like tents being draped over my upper body.  I mostly have to shop at Big and Tall-type stores to find them.

Comment #38: Henry Holland  on  01/21  at  09:51 PM

Okay, am I the only one who wants to know what brand of shoes those are in the picture?
I do love me a saucy little flat.

Comment #39: hbsweet, empress of ice cream  on  01/21  at  10:14 PM

Jadehawk@36, your thoughts here really resonate with me - and not only, I think, because I am one such Seattle refugee who would probably think you were fashionable!

Comment #40: ben_a  on  01/21  at  11:30 PM

re: “chairman” with “chairperson”.

Reminded me, I don’t remember who said it but they said Bill F’Buckley objected to Chairwoman but not Charwoman.

Comment #41: msobel  on  01/21  at  11:55 PM

Best blogger on this topic, hands down:  Mimi & Minh-Ha at Threadbared
About http://threadbared.blogspot.com/2009/11/more-about-us.html

Comment #42: slg  on  01/21  at  11:57 PM

Doh.  They moved:
http://iheartthreadbared.wordpress.com/

Comment #43: slg  on  01/21  at  11:58 PM

Something you might not have thought about, Amanda: I’m a short woman, and, while I don’t love higher heels, when I wear them I’m not trying to conceal my height or “fix” my body.  I’m not ashamed to be short—it’s just that I fucking love being able to look at more people straight-on rather than gazing up at most of the world. Being looked down at all the time has a subtle effect on how heard; I feel like a chihuahua yapping at Great Danes. I feel disconnected socially sometimes. I’m also seen as more childlike, less serious. in spite of my age; people still think of me as “cute” because of my size and there are times when I just don’t want to deal with that.

Comment #44: jenofiniquity  on  01/22  at  12:45 AM

The message I generally send is “I have non-standard body shapes so I’m stuck wearing these leftovers”.

It is so incredibly frustrating to find any bra at all over cup size DDD, and even harder to find one that is both comfortable and gives a stylish shape.  It’s also surprisingly hard to find fashionable shoes in wide width.  It really cuts down the selection by at least 75%, and many stores don’t carry any wide width shoes.

There are a lot more online options for buying large cup bras and wide-width shoes, but these are two things that you really need to try on first, and especially so when your breasts or feet are bigger.  So I have to either risk it and hope I order one that fits, or wear something that only sort of fits, or order 10 different things in different sizes and styles, only to return at least nine of them.

Comment #45: bananacat  on  01/22  at  02:00 AM

I think that the style and make of shoe matters more than heel height.  When chunky stacked heels were in, I wore them all the time and they were plenty comfortable.  Before my feet became wide-width, I also found tons of comfortable high heels from Steve Madden.  I remember wearing them to class my freshman year of college because my cheap-ass Sketchers sneakers were far less comfortable than the high heels.  And flats aren’t automatically comfortable because they often have no arch support.  I never look at a woman and judge her comfort level by the shoes she is wearing.

Then there are some uncomfortable things that aren’t even about looking fashionable or looking attractive, but simply looking acceptable.  I wish I could go out in public without a bra, but with natural breasts that range from F to I cup, there is no way I can manage that.  I would probably get reprimanded at any job, and I don’t even want to think about what would happen in other public places.  And this really is a feminist issue because sometimes I really do feel like my life is limited because of this.  All bras are incredibly uncomfortable for me and I don’t even have the option to shop around until I find a good one.  So I often stay home just so I don’t have to wear a bra.  And I don’t even care about looking great; I just want to go out in public without getting rude remarks and stares.

Comment #46: bananacat  on  01/22  at  02:09 AM

Bananacat, I wear a size 12 shoe so I know how you feel. I just have to go to stores and try to cram my foot into the largest thing they have. No possible fashion statements for me unless I am wearing something unisex like converse.

Comment #47: alysia  on  01/22  at  02:42 AM

I do believe that you can be feminist and stylish.  I dress for comfort, but the stuff I wear gets lots of compliments.  Lots of knit shift dresses and leggings with boots.  Really easy, nothing confining or tight, and unless I go for the 3” heels, I’m totally comfortable.  (Those heels get a little achy after a few hours, but they aren’t so bad.  Most of my shoes are 2” or lower.)

The only problem with my fashion outlook is that even though I don’t spend a whole lot of time coming up with outfits, I guess I look very “put together,” and as a result people assume I’m stupid.  Either guys or those kinds of girls who want to “other” girls who have any kind of feminine qualities (“I’m not one of THOSE kinds of girls.”)  As far as feminist issues in America, I wish that fashion would become something that men and women can embrace without being perceived as dumb or gay or whatever else; that it could just be self-expression.  In my own family I have a brother who dresses like a slob because to NOT dress like a slob would be too “feminine” in his eyes.  He associates dressing nice with femininity and therefore ickiness.  And that’s something I would really like to see changed.  I work in retail and see it all over the place—wives and girlfriends picking out outfits for their husbands/boyfriends because the guys can’t be bothered to care all that much about what they put on their body.  That’s a GIRL thing. 


(Okay, and it would also be nice for us sales associates if we didn’t have to be the “experts” and these ADULT MEN who come in without ladies in tow could dress their damn selves.  It isn’t all, but I’ve had very few male customers who could make a decision without a woman’s input.  By contrast I’ve had very few female customers ask a male’s opinion, and most of the men in those cases just sort of grunt and nod, as if anything she puts on is fine as long as he can JUST ... LEAVE ... NOW.)

Comment #48: BonAppetit  on  01/22  at  05:59 AM

I’ve had very few male customers who could make a decision without a woman’s input.  By contrast I’ve had very few female customers ask a male’s opinion, and most of the men in those cases just sort of grunt and nod, as if anything she puts on is fine

That’s funny when you think about the fact that 1) women’s opinions don’t matter, and men aren’t obligated to care what women think of their looks, and 2) women are dressing and existing in public primarily for men’s benefit. I guess that kind of thinking only works in theory, not when you actually have to risk 1) going out of the house looking like a douchebag or 2) showing interest in something your girlfriend is doing.

Comment #49: junk science  on  01/22  at  11:21 AM

I am known and beloved among my extended family for my willingness to have opinions on women’s clothing and for my willingness to try to dress myself adequately.

Comment #50: Punditus Maximus  on  01/22  at  12:47 PM

“It isn’t all, but I’ve had very few male customers who could make a decision without a woman’s input.  By contrast I’ve had very few female customers ask a male’s opinion, and most of the men in those cases just sort of grunt and nod, as if anything she puts on is fine as long as he can JUST ... LEAVE ... NOW.

I’d be curious to know where you work and the age of the men who patronize your store. From what I’ve seen, younger men are much, much more fashion-conscious and able to put together their own look than they were even 10-15 years ago. I see lots of guys out shopping who are very much into the experience. And one thing I see commonly now that I never saw when I was younger is two or more straight guys out shopping together. By the same token, I seem to see far fewer impatient dicks slogging along after their women with scowls on their faces. I know they still exist, but even though I shop quite a bit I thankfully don’t come across too many.

Comment #51: jjcomet  on  01/22  at  01:09 PM

A lot of short women are drawn to really high heels because they think it conceals how short they are. This is bad for two reasons. One, high heels are painful and should be used only rarely, if at all. Two, it actually looks kind of weird for short women to wear really tall heels. It’s out of proportion with your body, and looks like you’ve been jacked up, making your legs look out of proportion. Tall women actually tend to look better in really tall heels. If you approach fashion as embracing your body instead of trying to “fix” it, it’s much easier for short women to see that it’s just as well to wear low or no heels.

You’re assuming that they’re doing this thinking they’re fooling people. 

And you’re also assuming being “jacked up” looks bad.  Why?  What looks bad to you looks fine or even good to someone else.  As a child of the seventies, I actually like the jacked-up, little(-ish) person with big tall Frankenstein shoes look, just like some folks prefer the monster truck look to the lowrider.

In short, not everyone has to dress to emphasize the body parts you think are their best ones or be “proportionate” the way you want them to be.

I am exactly average height.  I have mentioned here before that I and other friends at work wear heels because it makes it a lot harder for men to literally look over our heads and ignore us.  If you don’t have to face a bunch of pricks in suits towering over you condescendingly then that’s not a problem you deal with.

Also, contrast and bright colors versus “subtle”—if you ever had your colors “done” (Summer Winter Autumn Spring), or read any of the books or million articles about it in women’s magazines, it’s basically assigning you a season on the basis of two factors:  are you pinky or peachy, and are you low-contrast or high-contrast.  I have pale skin and blonde hair so I was constantly put in the low-contrast group which is wrong wrong wrong for me because my eyes are almost black.

So again, you’re high contrast and that’s great—but if someone else is low-contrast, the bright and contrasty stuff will overwhelm and erase their natural shadings, while the “subtle” color palette will bring them out.

It’s not all black and white anyway (ha), there are obviously going to be gradations across each scale, not all colors work for everyone, your mileage may vary, etc.  The books took what should be a very individualized process and hacked it into four simplistic cookie-cutter molds.

Comment #52: oldfeminist  on  01/22  at  02:26 PM

I go with fashion when I like it and avoid it when I don’t. I won’t wear a heel higher than 2” even though I’m short and I like tunic length tops so for the few years when short tops were in fashion I bought very little. I like jewel-tone clothes and avoid pastels so if that’s all that’s offered - fuggedaboutit. I hate being expected to get rid of my old wardrobe to purchase a new one when fashion dictates a new trend.

One day I hope to be as awesome as the women in Advanced Style (http://advancedstyle.blogspot.com/)

Comment #53: Shakatany  on  01/22  at  03:50 PM

I’ve had very few male customers who could make a decision without a woman’s input.

This is a fairly standard dynamic in relationships. Having a good eye for fashion is a skill, and like all skills, they require practice and development. In many cases, the woman has spend more time developing those skills and prefers to use them to give input on the clothes her boyfriend/husband is buying.

Is it a feminist issue to insist that men develop their own fashion sense so that women to not get burdened with yet another form of uncompensated labor, or is it one of those things in a relationship where this is just considered a standard division of labor sort of issue?

Comment #54: Tyro  on  01/22  at  04:23 PM

I’m certainly not going to go all “zomg high heels are totes feminist!11!”, but I do think that even the heels vs flats issue is more nuanced. Shoe comfort isn’t determined solely by heel height; I have high arches so finding a pair of comfortable flats that don’t need inserts is a pain the ass. When I find a pair, it’s like they holy grail and I wear them until they fall apart. Some heels on the other hand, particularly platform pumps with more cushioning and no straps that cut into my feet, and a chunkier, more substantial heel than a tiny stiletto, are far more comfortable than some flats. 

Also, while the adage that “women look more attractive to men in heels” is clearly still relevant, there’s so much variation here as to require a lot of qualification to that statement. I’m a tall woman, so I guess part of the statement I’m making with some gigantic heels is that I acknowledge that I will be taller than many men and that I am finally, after many years of being self-conscious, completely fine with that. If you are a guy who wants to date me, you should also be fine with that.  And obviously YMMV, but guys often don’t think big clunky boots or wedges are attractive at all. I have never been able to understand why (maybe because the foot is made to look larger and somehow less “feminine”?), but this has been my experience. So in that respect, wearing a pair of four-inch wedge ankle booties may also send the message that I am dressing for myself, for other people who enjoy fashion as art and expression, but not to make sexyface with my feet. Sorry if that’s a bit of a ramble, I just think that these days the heels issue is more complex in terms of both comfort and statement-making, even if the whole reason that women are ever expected to wear heels and men aren’t is rooted in good ol’ woman-as-decorative-object sexism.

Comment #55: chareth cutestory  on  01/22  at  05:00 PM

@54: I consider the ability to decide what pieces of clothing you should buy for yourself to be pretty basic.

Everyone should know how to take care of their business in general when it comes to little, day to day things, including some housekeeping. To plunger out the sink, to change a lightbulb, to sew a button… doesn’t matter which sex you are.

Comment #56: Baruk  on  01/22  at  05:06 PM

I consider the ability to decide what pieces of clothing you should buy for yourself to be pretty basic.

“Basic” for men tends to mean a polo or oxford shirt and pleated khaki pants. But some people, usually the female partner, have higher standards. Some people are more fashion forward, and some people stick to what they felt they looked good in 20 years ago. This isn’t an unusual dynamic.

Comment #57: Tyro  on  01/22  at  05:14 PM

shaming women who want to be attractive and therefore attract normal human things like sexual interest, flirting, and positive attention shades rapidly from “feminist desire for women to be more than sex objects” into “slut-shaming”

I don’t mean that women who want to look attractive are anti-feminist or sluts.  I mean that being fashionable would have nothing to do with feminism in the best case (if we lived in a perfect, non-sexist world, people wanting to dress well would be gender neutral and still have nothing to do with women’s rights) and in the worst case, fashion is enforced adherence to cultural norms that are sometimes even physically damaging.  Most fashion is anti-feminist, because it starts from the assumption that women in particular have a responsibility to look decorative and goes from there.  All of our clothing choices work within a misogynistic culture and none of the messages that it’s currently possible to pick and still be “fashionable” or mainstream attractive are feminist ones.  They’re all damage control.  The woman freezing her ass off in a tiny outfit without a coat made choices that are logical for her situation.  The demands of a sexist society aren’t her fault.

A prescriptive message that women should dress a certain way, no matter what that way is, is anti-feminist though.  Even if it’s the prescription “emphasize your positives and don’t try to hide flaws, you’ll just look dumb trying to cover things up.”  It’s enforcement of the idea that women are required to be concerned about the way they look, the message they send, whether they’re dressed well or not, in a way that men are not required to at anywhere near the same level.  Yes, even the message that women are required to be conscious of the message they are sending (to a level that men are not) is anti-feminist: this means that women are supposed to be very aware of themselves as decorative, as perceived objects, as symbolic items that have a meaning that can be read rather than as human beings.  Sending the message “conform to the idea that women need to be fashion conscious, but try to do it in a less emotionally or physically harmful way” is still a way of enforcing current sexism but trying to do a small shift to mitigate the damage.

Comment #58: Nimravid  on  01/22  at  09:14 PM

Haven’t read all comments yet but bananacat at #46 have you looked at Duo shoes and boots? (www.duoboots.com) They have wide width shoes and boots (also wide and narrow calf) ranging from flats to high heels. I find their designs attractive but YMMV. They are UK based but ship everywhere. I have only bought boots from them but they’ve all been great quality.

Comment #59: JC  on  01/22  at  09:54 PM

A prescriptive message that women should dress a certain way, no matter what that way is, is anti-feminist though.  Even if it’s the prescription “emphasize your positives and don’t try to hide flaws, you’ll just look dumb trying to cover things up.”

The second part, okay, but I really don’t see “emphasize your positives” to be anti-feminist.  It can be, if you define “positives” as, “attributes the patriarchy approves of and wants to see,”  but “positives” can (and should) be about “things YOU like.”  An athlete who likes her broad shoulders and dresses to show them off is totally different from the same woman dressing to minimize them, even though both ways a “positive” is being emphasized.  The problem is that everyone who hears it thinks of “positives” in the former sense.  It totally screws with you and lots of women (and other genders) take literally decades before they’re able to dress according to the second meaning.

Comment #60: bomberE  on  01/23  at  12:05 AM

@bomberE But “hide your effed up shoulders” AND “flaunt your shoulders if you like them,” BOTH stem from the assumption that how a woman dresses herself is of the utmost importance. Neither prescriptive leaves much room for not giving a crap about fashion, for those women who would rather use their valuable mental real estate for something else entirely. I don’t think that “emphasizing your positives” is anti-feminist either, in itself. The problem, as I see it, is that it is a band-aid on a gaping wound.

To put it another way, if one randomly read in a publication, “men should emphasize their positives,” chances are any given reader might assume the sentence refers to any number of situations, from job interviews to dating to fashion to public speaking. If that same reader read “women should emphasize their positives,” chances are that reader would assume the sentence was about dressing fashionably because women are assumed to express themselves always and only through their appearance. The framework in which appearance is THE mode of self-actualization for women is B.S., so working within that framework, even with a feminist attitude, is still problematic in my mind. But as Amanda pionted out, you cannot opt out. So in practice, yeah, “emphasize the positives” may be the best we can do.

Comment #61: MoseyMcShuffleson  on  01/23  at  12:38 AM

I really agree that the “modesty” thing is annoying. My fiance tends to dress in really subtle faint colors and honestly those choices don’t always work for her because her body’s color scheme is, itself faint and subtle. I try to suggest she dress in bold reds, greens & patterns. I respect that she doesn’t always agree, though.

One fashion choice I’ve been embracing lately is really dark colors. I’m not sure why but I think I look much better in them. Maybe because my hair & eyes are kinda dark?

Comment #62: atheist  on  01/23  at  05:48 AM

Dudes have all kinds of anxiety about height.  Heels pump up the sexy, yes, but they also take you from intimidating to more intimidating, from impressive to more impressive.  It might not matter in some things but in a corporate setting it is a weapon you have to use unless you want to operate with a disadvantage.  Like most weapons it requires some dedication and quite a bit of expense but is it worth it?  Yes, it is because the advantage is there, its no small thing, and it something men can’t do thou they would if they could.

Comment #63: ewellone  on  01/23  at  11:03 AM

I love Greta Christina’s fashion posts, and I’d be interested to see you do more, too. For most of my life I loathed fashion because of the associated nonsense (no, ewellone at #14, I do not remotely “gotta” have high heels. They hurt me and make me bleed). Reading anything about fashion that doesn’t have HATE YOURSELF MORE writ large between the lines is wonderfully refreshing, and makes me think I might want to learn a bit about how to speak a bit more of that language after all.

...Until I go to the shops and it proves ridiculously difficult to dress my extremely-average-in-almost-every-dimension body appropriately, let alone how I’d prefer. And were I a bit fatter, it would be difficult to dress <i>at all<>. Seriously, if fashion is a language, it’s one most of us are slapped across the chops if we dare try to speak, and that has to stop.

Comment #64: MissPrism  on  01/23  at  12:11 PM

An interesting datapoint on the “classy” issue is Kate bleedin’ Middleton. She dresses as if she’s her own mum because the slightest whiff of non-classiness would have the Daily Mail howling about the disgusting chav princess. She’s very lucky she’s slim and brunette or she couldn’t have stayed “classy” even with old-lady clothes.

Comment #65: MissPrism  on  01/23  at  12:14 PM

In my experience, feminists who embrace fashion tend to look awesome, because they eschew the push towards conformity and embrace their bodies as-is. Big boobs? Flaunt ‘em. Fat? Sweet, you can get away with big accessories. Flat-chested? Lucky you (or me, in this case), you look great in those loud prints that others tend to overlook. It’s way more fun that way.

Ah the body-acceptance mandate. Fuck it, I say! I am a short short tiny thin lady with bazooka tits; I’m ok with the former attributes, mostly, but hell to the no I am not cool with the tits.

I spent 20 years just trying to roll with the boobage, wear clothes made for the boobage, etc. Because I wanted to be feminist and self-accepting. But I hate those clothes! I hate how they look on me! With a nail-spitting passion. They do not tell the story I want to tell about myself with my clothes, my posture, my appearance. But, I’m broke, and cannot afford reduction surgery.

So I bought some hardcore minimizers. They are not perfect but they take me down to a size proportionate to my very short, very slender frame. They aren’t very comfortable, or very attractive in themselves. But I will wear them for the rest of my goddamn life if I have to, because for the first time in over 20 years I am happy with the way I look.

Comment #66: Well, what?  on  01/23  at  12:47 PM

ewellone @ 14.
I have to absolutely disagree with you. 
I find what not to wear to generally be a horror show.  I’ve watch full episodes all of twice.  In one, the stay at home mom was subjected to an amazing level of shaming her for “going out like that, really, in public”.  Just gross.  No let’s add this to spice things up, but everything you are doing is Wrong with a capitol W.
Those were early on, so maybe it got better; but unless they replaced the people doing the advice, and it doesn’t look like it, I can’t see how.
Also, not everyone looks better in a nice dress and heels, especially if they can’t walk in heels.  You do not look better if the nice dress isn’t the right cut or color for you, no matter how nice, nor if you can’t move without worrying if you are going to take a tumble.

Comment #67: helen w. h.  on  01/23  at  01:46 PM

it something men can’t do thou they would if they could.

Ever heard of elevator shoes?

Elevator shoes are shoes that have thickened sections of the insoles (known as lifts) under the heels to make the wearer appear taller. An elevator shoe, like the platform shoe’s heel can be made from different soles like plastic, wood, or rubber. The name suggests not only that such a shoe elevates a wearer, but has even been taken to suggest[citation needed][original research?] that it can elevate a wearer over some others. There are some elevator shoes that increase the height of a wearer from 2,6” to 3,2” and even up to 4”.

Unlike high-heeled shoes, the component of elevator shoes that increases the wearer’s height is inside the shoe, hiding it from observers. Shoes with thickened soles are also used in cases of orthopaedic problems, although the term elevator shoe is not usually used for these.

Comment #68: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  01/23  at  02:12 PM

As a tall woman, I embrace heels—yes, they make me even taller!  Gasp!  I like being tall!  Taller than many men, even!  Also, I have high arches and high heels are actually more comfortable than many flats. 

The point I really agreed with was that there is no opt-out clause for fashion.  To me, feminist fashion means deliberately taking control of what you wear, rather than embracing trends that may not actually suit either your body or your personality.  It also means not evaluating other people’s clothing not on whether it conforms to some social norm, supporting designers and clothing manufacturers who produce clothes for women who don’t have socially approved bodies, and pressuring the fashion industry to deal with physical expectations for models that lead to unhealthy eating habits and eating disorders.  It also includes supporting fair labor practices.

Comment #69: Kit-Kat  on  01/23  at  02:45 PM

I just want to know what brand those flats are in the photo! I’m reading this on my iPhone and the brand name is too blurry for me to read.
Comment #11: Raging Red on 01/21 at 02:39 PM

I can’t tell either, and I zoomed in as much as possible.  It’s just fuzzy.  The brand seems to have two words, first one four letters, second six letters, or thereabouts.

Comment #70: oldfeminist  on  01/23  at  04:29 PM

I would so go naked all the time in the summer if it weren’t for the sunburns I get when I’m at the nude beach.  Even with sunscreen I burn in no time flat. And don’t get me started on the sun stroke I get if my head goes uncovered in the afternoon - especially if I mistaken drink even a little bit of alcohol.

Guess clothes can still be practical when it is hot out.

FTR, I’m a comfortable fashion failure. Jeans, sweats, or khaki shorts with a t-shirt and sneakers is all you get from me over 90% of the time. Yes, even at work at my corporate job. In the summer I wear a hat or a screaming loud head scarf. And I like it this way.

Comment #71: wondering  on  01/23  at  04:49 PM

In my own family I have a brother who dresses like a slob because to NOT dress like a slob would be too “feminine” in his eyes.  He associates dressing nice with femininity and therefore ickiness.  And that’s something I would really like to see changed.

That was also the case in my old neighborhood with some older kids who preferred the scuffed up young tough look, a younger male friend from a New England suburban subculture which felt that having a room that’s too brightly decorated and meticulously organized was a sign a woman was living in a room which actually belonged to a male roommate, and at my NYC specialized high school….though that was also mixed with a certain nerd/geek-chic* where “True nerds/geek geniuses have better things to do than to care about their external appearances”(a.k.a. If you dress well, you must not be very intelligent/sentient and/or you’re too obsessed with catering to the less intelligent fashion-obsessed corporate “suits”). 

This mentality also existed at my college at the time I attended….though it wasn’t so much due to maleness so much as the idea that dressing well was a symptom one was being a “A craven conformist tool of bourgeois social norms and the capitalist driven fashion industry”. 

Unless one was a conservatory student, most students either tried to emulate neo-hippie fashions in homage to the ‘60s hippie culture they greatly admired or oftentimes dressed like slobs(More like against mainstream upper/upper-middle class corporate/elite high fashion norms).  Wearing a suit or something from Fifth Avenue tends to get the wearer scornfully mocked by the rest of us college kids. 

* Dressing as slobs and embracing pocket protectors/heavy black rimmed glasses a la “Revenge of the Nerds” was really in at my high school.

Comment #72: exholt  on  01/23  at  05:40 PM

Elevator Shoes.. I have heard of those now that you mention it, I also saw this cheesy commercial where you could order plastic inserts.. You can even “stack them” to get more height, thats got to hurt compared to an shoe that has that integrated in. 

I shouldn’t say that you “gotta” do high heels I guess, maybe I should say you “gotta consider it” but the bottom line is its got to feel good to you and empowering.

On “What Not to Wear”, yes they do shame people that is true and some people have balked but for the most part people really do seem transformed and happier on the other side.  But more importantly they don’t shame people for their body size or type, its all about making you look as good at the moment, with a new wardrobe and granted most people can’t go buy a whole closet of clothes at once to find the things that work for you but watching I think gives you good ideas.  They talk alot about color and skin types also.

Comment #73: ewellone  on  01/23  at  07:02 PM

a certain nerd/geek-chic* where “True nerds/geek geniuses have better things to do than to care about their external appearances”(a.k.a. If you dress well, you must not be very intelligent/sentient and/or you’re too obsessed with catering to the less intelligent fashion-obsessed corporate “suits”). ...  Wearing a suit or something from Fifth Avenue tends to get the wearer scornfully mocked by the rest of us college kids.

True, it was like this. And then we grew up.

There is still a such thing in all workplaces as being overdressed which can look silly, but for the most part, adults figure out how to put on clothes without turning it into a cultural battleground. “You are the clothes you wear” comes from the same teenage mindset as “you are what music you listen to.”

Comment #74: Tyro  on  01/23  at  09:49 PM

The What not to Wear shaming was so horrendious that I now change the channel whenever I see either of those people, even in just a commercial.  There is no excuse for making people feel that aweful about themselves, especially not about something like wearing the “right” fucking clothes.  And boy were they pushing the “right” clothes at least as much as what looked good.  You can get past that, fine.  Not me.

Comment #75: helen w. h.  on  01/24  at  09:41 AM

The thing I do like about WNTW is that, while they do make fun of participants’ clothing, I have NEVER seen them mock anyone’s body.  NEVER.  The participants are often women who don’t think they are pretty or deserve to look nice, and all four of the makeover people always point out how they are pretty and do deserve to look nice.  They make a point of noting positive aspects of the person’s appearance, regardless of their body type or weight.  Often their complaint about the clothes is that they make the woman look like she is hiding her body or ashamed of herself. 

They also don’t push trends or high fashion, but decent basic dressing for the life situation of the woman (i.e., not the same clothes for a SAHM as for a woman who works in a corporate office or for a teacher).  They are often very explicit about how dressing better can help you achieve other goals—professional success, keeping romance in your marriage when you have small children, and about how different situations require different kinds of clothes.  They can be pretty snarky about the clothes, but never about the person. 

I don’t mean to come off sounding like a partisan for the show, but their emphasis on body-positivity is refreshing.  I think the snark is part of what they see as the “entertainment” value of the show, but I don’t think it overshadows the positive message of the show, which is that you don’t have to be a young, skinny model to be beautiful.

Comment #76: Kit-Kat  on  01/24  at  01:31 PM

I shouldn’t say that you “gotta” do high heels I guess, maybe I should say you “gotta consider it” but the bottom line is its got to feel good to you and empowering.

Too bad you can’t explain, a few decades from now, how “good” and “empowered” you feel at the doctor’s office after your body has suffered the effects of being forcibly contorted 40-plus hours a week.

All women’s fashion choices are fraught with issues of body image and cultural influence; high heels are unique, AFAIK, in directly injuring people. At least if you’re talking about wearing them every day. There’s definitely social pressure to “learn how to wear heels” (your line about “gotta rock the heels” was just another brick in the wall), and maybe it starts as a relatively innocent desire to dress up or experiment (which doesn’t make it totally unproblematic, but at least no more problematic than other fashion choices), but the result is that quite a few women end up wearing them all the time, sometimes to the point where they can’t walk in flats at all.

Comment #77: Trackless  on  01/24  at  09:42 PM

Comment #76: Kit-Kat - That’s what I love about WNTW, too. I have never seen them shame a person for their body. It’s not perfect in that they are not accepting of less main-stream fashion and I hate that nearly every woman ends up in high heels at the end. I would do the show only if I could keep all my flat shoes, especially my birkenstocks. wink

Comment #78: Livi  on  02/16  at  12:12 PM
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