I read this yesterday, but couldn’t muster up the necessary snark to respond, having depleted my supplies on the odious Camille Paglia, so thank you for treating it as dismissively as it deserves. You’d almost get the impression that Republicans don’t believe in the institutions of democracy.

Ooh, ooh, ooh!  I love it. Sorry, Mr. Franken, but I’ll happily throw you under the bus if we can make it an official policy that anyone who runs a nasty, polarizing campaign isn’t allowed to win! Wow, how many Republican seats could we gain that way?

(/snark)

What really bothers me is that this Minnesota recount is happening because their rules require it to happen.  In close races there, it’s automatic.  In all the accounts of the recount, I haven’t heard a single right wing blogger suggest changing that law.  Instead, it’s a whisper campaign against that old bugaboo snark-hunt called “voter fraud” which only seems to happen (in their minds) when Democrats win.

And in Alaska, the latest count had Stevens behind Begich.  What’s weird there is that so many votes are still getting counted the first time.  If I was going to suggest fraud, I think the Alaska vote looks a hell of a lot fishier than the Minnesota one.

Of course, two more Democratic Senators will look like two instances of fraud to those frauds.

Mr. Franken’s people are already arguing that a vote for Mr. Obama certainly indicated a vote for Mr. Franken.

I want Franken to win, but that’s a scummy argument.  If somebody chose not to vote for Senator, then that’s their right.

Franken ran a “nasty and polarising race”? I thought it was Coleman whose negative campaigning was so over-the-top nasty that Coleman himself was forced to end it when he saw it was turning off potential voters.

Republicans have certainly proved one thing: they’re experts at turning reality on its head.

Excuse me? This is the state that elected Jesse “The Body” Ventura governor, and Al Franken is an inappropriate choice to represent them in the Senate?

So interesting that Faux News and the ENTIRE HATE and BLATHER CIRCUIT are all “suddenly” and simutaneously interested in how Franken has narrowed Coleman’s lead by a miniscule sum, the entirety of which is vastly smaller than the 0.5% (15,000 vote) recount threshold.  They are making shit up, showing their statistical stupidity in asking really obtuse questions about a handful of ballots changing a very small lead, not bothering to learn or understand the electoral processes, and braying about “scandals about ballots in cars (fuckingduhhhh they get transported somehow!)” that don’t exist and they should know don’t exist because Minnesota is fanatical about impartial election judging and chain of custody for ballots and there is a paper trail for every goddamn vote.  In short, there are Republican election judges who are getting completely pissed off at the noise machine over this.

MEANWHILE, the Alaska Legislature feels that they must demand that 90,000 absentee ballots be counted????  There are ballots known to exist and unaccounted for?  There are ballots not yet counted or turned in to be counted?  There are huge statistical discrepancies in the numbers of votes as a percentage of totals???  No problem!

Soon we’re going to learn that it was Franken himself who sent a comic book full of dirty words to families across the state.

Al: since the recount hasn’t begun yet, Franken’s lawyers aren’t making any arguments at all about actual ballots. They’re just making the argument (in the court of public opinion, since the recount is mandated by law) that when you see records from the scanning machines tens of thousands of ballots that have a recorded vote for president but none for senator, you really ought to take a look at those ballots by eye before calling the election. It’s Coleman whose lawyer are arguing that the state shouldn’t follow the law but just award him the election by fiat.  That seems well beyond sleazy to me.

But then I should recognize that a republican is always honest.

It’s Coleman whose lawyer are arguing that the state shouldn’t follow the law but just award him the election by fiat.  That seems well beyond sleazy to me.

Interesting how Coleman, who is a lawyer, has no grasp of the laws of the state he claims to represent.  Perhaps that is because he is a NEW YORK lawyer?

“Isn’t it odd how late vote counts actually counting all the votes will inexorably favor Democrats a party that relies on GOTV and disfavor a party that relies on vote suppression and voter caging?”

Weird how that happens.

Isn’t it odd how late vote counts inexorably favor Democrats?

The American League wins the All Star Game year after year, but no one accuses them of cheating.

Hey, Ms Kate, don’t slag New York lawyers. Some of them are awfully good with the laws of other states, even the laws of other countries. Coleman would be a sleazeball no matter which bar he passed. (And the professional responsibility part of the bar exam is not state-bound...)

And in Alaska, the latest count had Stevens behind Begich.  What’s weird there is that so many votes are still getting counted the first time.

Good news--Begich is up now and increasing his lead.

I just wish that somebody would directly say to some douchebag like Hannity “why don’t you want Minnesota to count the votes of our brave soldiers serving overseas?”.

Where the hell do these noisemakers think all these votes are coming from?  And if they want to know why they come in so late, well, it has to do with making sure the people who cast them didn’t vote at the precincts anyway.

Isn’t it odd how late vote counts inexorably favor Democrats?

yeah, imagine that. Isn’t it funny how the majority population centers with the highest density of human beings both always lean Democratic *and* tend to get counted last?

I wonder if, y’know, the fact that counting 4000 votes in a precinct might be a trifle harder to do than counting 400 votes might have anything to do with that?

Or, perhaps, the notion that if anyone was going to drag their feet and hide votes until calls of corruption made it impossible to sit on them any longer, it would be Republicans, not Democrats?

Or—scary thought, here—maybe the lack of *early* counting of the *early* vote in a state with a Republican governor running for vice president might suggest that she suspected, or was told, that the majority of the *early* vote was enthusiastic Obama supporters, because very few people could actually get enthusiastic about her and the Methuselah she was running with? So, you know, maybe she sort of managed not to count the *early* vote until people started screaming about it?

And one more point to make: isn’t it funny how throwing people off the rolls who deserve to vote, lying about who is authorized to vote or when, challenging people with the right to vote at the polls, making road blocks to prevent people from voting, and creating horrendously confusing ballots… inexorably favors Republicans?

“Republicans: we only win when you don’t vote. Stay home and watch American Idol! I hear it’s good tonight.”

If somebody chose not to vote for Senator, then that’s their right.
And if somebody chose to vote for senator, and the scanning machine did not register that vote, then it is their right to have their vote counted.

Isn’t it odd how late vote counts inexorably favor Democrats?

What happened was the original ‘calling in the numbers’ total was about 700 in Coleman’s favor. Once the ‘let’s look again’ numbers started coming in, they started heading Franken’s way.

I’m a Minnesotan and I know Coleman the politician, and he’s DANGEROUS because he’s smart and his hipocracy knows no bounds.

Take the above talking point; it takes a HUGE negative and turns it on it’s head:

Isn’t it odd how the early count so strongly overstated the Coleman vote?

Because the Coleman camp’s argument is shot full of holes when you look at the tapes. OK, on Tuesday night you said Franken 500, now you say Franken 600. What did your tapes say? Oh, they say Franken 600. So why is it that EVERY error between reported and actual was made in favor of Coleman???

I really don’t understand the mewling about Franken/Coleman.  Even before the count ‘narrowed’, there was no question that there would have to be a recount b/c it was just that close.  The numbers that were bandied about at first, those numbers that still required a recount, weren’t certified by their counties.

Yes, it’s exciting that as all the votes are counted the race gets even tighter.  But Minnesota Public Radio says that vote totals generally change by about 1000-1500 as they are certified.  The fact that Coleman was only ahead by 1200 in the early counting puts him within the margin of change--which is why they have a legal requirement for a recount.

It boggles my mind that out of over 2 million votes, the difference is only 206 votes.  Even if it were still 1200+, it would still be boggling.  How can such divergent views end up TIED?

But then I don’t have a need to have immediate answer to an election.  I’d rather it be done correctly than quickly.  I even don’t think the MSM should be allowed to report any exit polls or early counts until everyone has finished voting--that means Hawaii shouldn’t have to hear about the rest of the country ‘deciding’ who the president is while their polls are still open.  It’s one nation, so shut up till the nation’s done voting.

And the only reason the GOP isn’t whining about Alaska is b/c they don’t want to have to deal with Stevens if he’s re-elected.  They don’t want the scandal of having to kick him out. 

But I bet Sarah’s pissed off that she has to count those early voter votes and absentee votes.

This election HAS been really divisive, but I hate to say this (not because it isn’t true, but it sounds so elementary) the first mud-ball was thrown by Coleman.  To say FRANKEN is solely responsible ignores the other person dropping the most patronizing, annoying, and flat out false ads I’ve seen outside of a presidential election. 

*Sigh* I miss Wellstone.

“It boggles my mind that out of over 2 million votes, the difference is only 206 votes.  Even if it were still 1200+, it would still be boggling.  How can such divergent views end up TIED? “

Minnesota is generally a state with an identity crisis.  They are confused because they like their elitist liberal tendencies of higher education, theatre and art museums; but they also really like their guns, and they can’t reconcile the two.

I spent my teenage years there and it was really odd.  I lived about a half hour from the Twin Cities in a very Republican district.  A weird combination of tolerance and nuttery, you wouldn’t have any problems being openly gay but try to suggest that the primary purpose of oil probably shouldn’t be to burn it as quickly as possible in our pick-up trucks and you’re getting your ass kicked after school.

try to suggest that the primary purpose of oil probably shouldn’t be to burn it as quickly as possible in our pick-up trucks and you’re getting your ass kicked after school.

I’m not sure if this would have flown in Minnesota, but I’ve had a lot of luck pointing out to wingnuts that when we spend money on oil we put it directly in the pocket of America’s enemies, so if we don’t use good old American ingenuity and know-how to come up with something to burn that isn’t oil, we’re funding Ay-rab terrorists who want to blow us up.

The 3rd party candidate definitely had an effect, but let’s face it: Franken was not a strong candidate. I live in MN, and I do not know of many people who were really enthusiastic about Franken’s candidacy. Coleman started the mud-throwing, but Franken was throwing it thick and nasty as well. Just as an example: the Mpls. StarTribune put out a voters’ guide. Franken’s summary of his views spent half his time attacking Coleman.

I think Coleman is loathsome, but if you can’t draw more than 42% of the vote in a wave year, when the presidential candidate carried Minnesota with more than 55% of the vote, you are a weak candidate.

Minnesota politics are really kinda crazy. We’ve had some of the weirdest elections in the country recently (1990: nominated Republican goes skinny-dipping with teenagers, and cheats on his wife. Drops out less than a month before the election. Replaced with a centrist Republican who the rest of the party doesn’t like, but he wins easily. Also, Wellstone knocks off Boschwits in a major upset. 1998: Ventura is elected. 2002: Wellstone is killed 2 weeks prior to the election, Democrats nominate Mondale, they lose. 2008: this recount, which is going to drag on for *months*.)

Norsecats—for sure! Franken started out strong, building for the endorsement with grassroots visits to State Senate District events. Then he fled from his wit, which I think was a mistake, and then he was LAME as a candidate.

I stopped by the Franken HQ today (had an errand next door, how convenient) and told them the counter attack I mention above. (Why do the first reports uniformly skew Coleman? while the closer count was Franken?) I got a 23 year old press staffer, who listened but told me ‘not to worry, they had really good people working on it’.

That’s the arrogance of the DFL in a nutshell. Don’t worry, we got it. OOOPS! Rug pulled out from under us! Shit! Blame Fox News!

Pisses me off.  Plus a hefty number of Minnesotans wonder about the Wellstone crash that let Norm in in the first place. Bad karma all around on this one.

nihilix, aren’t you tired of seeing the DFL nominate completely ineffective candidates? I know I am. The most dynamic candidate we’ve nominated for statewide office since Wellstone was Amy Klobuchar, and wouldn’t you know it, she won by 20.

I don’t buy any of the conspiracy theories about Wellstone’s death--it was a lousy pilot in lousy weather. Small planes crash all the time.

Look, the fact that the Republicans stole Norm Coleman’s seat for him by murdering Paul Wellstone doesn’t mean that Al Franken (who’s a Left-wing joker) shouldn’t be a gentleman and give up on the election he won.  Don’t you DEMONcraps have any sense of fair play?

Norsecats - Dead tired. In my quest to vote against Coleman, I picked Skip Humphrey as the most likely to defeat him, missing out on the Jesse boat. They’re still stuck - like Kos says - the old guard’s still in power, and they have no clue. The depth of their former dominance has protected some of the party’s dinosaurs.

I’ve got a post that might go up on BitchPhD where I quote your above commentary (and link this thread) if Dr. B approves it. She didn’t like one of my RNC posts, so now I want her OK!

Anyway - gotta go!

Last I heard, Franken was only down by about 210 votes in a state with 7 million people.  That is less than 3 VOTES PER COUNTY across the state.  That is so close that the difference is statistically insignificant.  And Franken isn’t the one asking for a recount.  The recount is automatic and required by law.

Feel free to quote away, nihilix.

I voted for Jesse in 1998. I just couldn’t vote for Skip. I remember feeling startled when he’d actually won, and my wife playfully punching me in the shoulder saying “This is all your fault.”

I know at least a half-dozen people who did the same thing I did in the voting booth: “what the hell, they both suck, fuck it, I’m voting for Jesse.”

“I’ve had a lot of luck pointing out to wingnuts that when we spend money on oil we put it directly in the pocket of America’s enemies, so if we don’t use good old American ingenuity and know-how to come up with something to burn that isn’t oil, we’re funding Ay-rab terrorists who want to blow us up. “

Feh-
king
brilliant.

Add muslims and ya got two winners for the price of one, with some people.

Okay, for the sake of argument, more votes = more Democratic.

You still haven’t answered why more votes later on in the process are always more Democratic than more votes early, other than vague accusations against Sarah Palin.

You still haven’t answered why more votes later on in the process are always more Democratic than more votes early, other than vague accusations against Sarah Palin.

Republican voter suppression efforts are only temporarily effective.

That’s why.

You still haven’t answered why more votes later on in the process are always more Democratic than more votes early, other than vague accusations against Sarah Palin.

Democratic voters tend to vote later in the day than Republican voters due to the working clsss demographic that comprises a large portion of the Democratic majority. Additionally, Democratic voters are more likely to lack id at the polls and have to cast provisional ballots, which are not resolved until after election day.

For another point, Republicans have been much more likely to engage in vote suppression efforts, in Democratic districts, which compels more voters to cast provisional ballots. Due to this imbalance, these ballots nearly always skew Democratic.

Matthew;

A good attempt, but it doesn’t quite fit. “Early in the process” means on election night, after the polls close, so the time of day they were cast is irrelevant. And you’ve failed to attempt any explanation why the same thing happens when no new ballots are added, but rather the same ballots are recounted.