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Next entry: 15 seconds or your entire life Previous entry: The Trojan Man’s Secret Shame

How dare you get 5 more minutes of sunshine a day than me?

Sometimes, the need for conservatives to shut up and let the professionals do their talking becomes so strong that even I almost feel pity enough to say, “Stop trying to deny that you’re nutty, because your denials are proving the point.”  Almost.  And then I start laughing again, such as at the comments in this piece I wrote about birthers, where it was made clear to me by birther commenters that they could prove their non-nuttiness with A LOT OF CAPS LOCKS AND MANY! EXCLAMATION! POINTS! But reading The Daily Texan yesterday at the bus stop, I found what might be the absolute ideal of right wing faux populism.  It was a letter to the editor by a dude protesting an article written by a female student about the assholes of the anti-choice movement.  You can fill out your Wingnut Bingo card in short order with it: misrepresentations, outright lies, trotting out vocabulary words with the wrong connotations, “I know you are, but what am I?” attempts at trying to thwart those crafty liberals, Palin worshipping, and of course, thin attempts to win the argument by declaring that you’re morally superior because you have a certain salt-of-the-earth quality your opponent lacks, with her tea-drinking liberal elitist ways. 

And it’s that last one that I found comically thin.

First, Lingwall impressed me with her originality by taking a shot at Sarah Palin. Surely this is not the “original thought” that she has been learning in her prestigious Plan II classes?

For those who don’t know, Plan II is the UT version of a standard honors curriculum that a lot of universities have.  A few weeks ago, Matt pointed out that conservatives like Ross Douthat are slicing up the differences that allow someone to have a leg-kicking full-on right wing resentment temper tantrum over mightily thin if they’re really going to kick up dust over the state university vs. Ivy League thing.  But Matt and the NY Times Douchebag have had a real lapse in imagination compared to this finance major at UT.  He’s realized that the real gulf between Real Americans and Latte Liberal Elitist Snobs Who Need To Be Taken Down A Peg isn’t what university you went to.  After all, he is a Real American who is forced to rub shoulders at UT with Latte Liberal Scum.  No, the real divide is whether or not you are on the honors track at your particular university.

To be perfectly fair, right wing faux populism has its origins in this sort of A students versus C students battle.  In Rick Perlstein’s engrossing history Nixonland, you learn that it just burned Nixon up when he was in college that some of his fellow students were Franklins, a club composed of the 1920s version of the Cool Kids.  Nixon started a counter club called the Orthogonians, basically people who resented the Cool Kids.  And thus the right wing narrative about how it’s morally pure to resent people for being smarter or more sophisticated than you was born, and one-up-man-ship of who is the most anti-intellectual, anti-sophistication, anti-culture—-and therefore morally pure—-began.

I suggest that there is no end game to this.  Anything can be used to argue that someone else thinks they are so special and all that, and thus you are their moral superior.  Why stop at honors track vs. non-honors track?  B students of right wing inclinations, declare your superiority over the A students.  Ditto C students over B students.  If you flunked out of college because you kept forgetting to go to class, well, that might seem dumb to some, but it just shows that at least you don’t think you’re so great.  If you get a 3.7 in college, console yourself by saying some assholes got a 3.8, 3.9, and even a 4.0.  Who do they think they are?

Of course, the irony is that right wing faux populism and resentments are about perpetuating actual oppression.  This letter writer isn’t the victim of oppression he thinks he is because some fellow students run around making As and having sex as if they have a right when he’s not doing either.  But he’s eager to force women to bear children against their will.  And frankly, he’s not very good at concealing that abortion bans satisfy that urge to punish people you resent for thinking they’re so cool.  Oh, these feminists think they’re so cool with their fun and satisfying sex lives, do they?  Well, they won’t be laughing so hard with joy when they’re forced to have a baby against their will. 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 06:06 PM • (85) Comments

For those who don’t know, Plan II is the UT version of a standard honors curriculum that a lot of universities have.  A few weeks ago, Matt pointed out that conservatives like Ross Douthat are slicing up the differences that allow someone to have a leg-kicking full-on right wing resentment temper tantrum over mightily thin if they’re really going to kick up dust over the state university vs. Ivy League thing.

Especially when the academic rigor of the academic workload in Ivy/Ivy-level schools or honors track programs in many state/private universities are not THAT much more than the standard college curriculum fare in the experiences of many friends who transferred from a lower-ranked state/private school to their school’s honors track and/or an Ivy/Ivy-level school. 

YMMV, of course as I did know one undergrad classmate who transferred out who complained that her GPA was tanking below a 3.25 who ended up in UT-Austin’s honors program and ended up making 3.7-3.8 range GPAs from her sophomore year till graduation without having to work nearly as hard even though she double majored in politics and a STEM field and made it a point to take the most advanced classes/projects possible.

Comment #1: exholt  on  08/03  at  06:30 PM

We’ve seen the entire GOP narrative unravel in the last election. They’re fighting a losing war over a shrinking voting base.

Really, I long for the days some smug conservative asshole would throw his head back and silently laugh like at a child’s mispronunciation of a word, because you just said “Global Warming?”, or “Al Gore?”, or some other secret punch line, and I’d want to punch them in their fat face. Now I just feel pity when one gets wide-eyed and blurts out “National Health Care?”, and everyone stares at him like he just said a word like shoe, or cup, or pencil, and silently giggled.

It may take a generation for them to work through this.

Comment #2: I Heart Puppies  on  08/03  at  06:30 PM

I will say that when I first read the letter, I thought of how much the “logic” in it resembles that of men who sexually harass women who the men deem think too highly of themselves.

Comment #3: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/03  at  06:36 PM

If you get a 3.7 in college, console yourself by saying some assholes got a 3.8, 3.9, and even a 4.0.

Yay! I have a lot of people I can call “assholes”. </snark>

Then again, turnabout is fair play as a lot more people can use me for the exact same purpose as well. 

Nothin’ wrong with blaming harder working and more capable people for our own shortcomings, especially when those shortcomings are mainly derived from our own actions/inactions.

One of the closest forms of this attitude IME is the commonplace tendency of many US-born American mostly White undergrads to blame their academic shortcomings on the supposed “poor accent” of their foreign-looking(Often POC) TAs when they cannot be bothered to even try dealing with the issue and oftentimes the supposed “foreign accent” accusation turned out to be complete BS.

If you flunked out of college because you kept forgetting to go to class, well, that might seem dumb to some, but it just shows that at least you don’t think you’re so great.

Sounded like some of my older cousins who were teetering on the edge of being expelled for poor academic performance back when they were undergrads in the 1970’s/80’s.  rolleyes

My high school classmates and I had a phrase for such college classmates….“people who didn’t have their priorities straight”.....

Comment #4: exholt  on  08/03  at  06:46 PM

Amanda, I thought you were just being touchy until I read Mr. Earnest’s last paragraph:

So, Mary, it seems that you and other radical feminists are in the minority, and you have your pro-death president, his radical policies, and your backwards desire to be a man to thank for that. There is nothing like tangible extremism to engender true social change.

Is a woman’s desire to not put her life on hold, or her family’s inability to afford an unplanned child really defined a a “backwards desire to be a man”?

Comment #5: I Heart Puppies  on  08/03  at  07:06 PM

Well, yes.  Men are human beings with rights, and it’s backwards for women to want that for themselves.

Comment #6: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/03  at  07:09 PM

I wonder if the Daily Texan would print a rebuttal letter that simply said “What an ASSHOLE!”

Comment #7: Mark  on  08/03  at  07:19 PM

So, Mary, it seems that you and other radical feminists are in the minority, and you have your pro-death president, his radical policies, and your backwards desire to be a man to thank for that. There is nothing like tangible extremism to engender true social change

See, if y’all would just quit wearning those strap-ons on the outside of your clothing everything would be fine.

Comment #8: Magis  on  08/03  at  07:30 PM

Mark - I sometimes wonder.

I believe that online letters sections are really only a series of message boards to keep people active on their site, raising their hits per day, or whatever. The DailyHerald in the NW suburbs of Chicago runs inane letters that seemingly are written by about 15 people whose names are regularly occuring.

It’s a general rule there that the bigots get to be about as racist, sexist, homophobic, and just plain mean as they want, and those with a left-ward slant have their comments removed and are banned if they get too angry.

Comment #9: I Heart Puppies  on  08/03  at  07:31 PM

Well, yes.  Men are human beings with rights, and it’s backwards for women to want that for themselves.

Look, men don’t get to choose about pregnancies - so why should women have special rights?

Comment #10: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/03  at  07:58 PM

NO matter how educated women become, they will never have the extreme communication skills that can enable them to get through to a dolt.  So what is the point?  They’ve wasted all their time!  Nyak nyak!

Comment #11: scratchy888  on  08/03  at  08:21 PM

Look, men don’t get to choose about pregnancies - so why should women have special rights?

Of course men do.  They can choose to get a vasectomy or to use a condom.

If the condom fails, the man’s intention toward any resultant pregnancy is already known; he used a condom, therefore, he didn’t want that particular act of intercourse to result in a child. 

Which means condom use is a de facto indication of intent to prevent pregnancy and assent to an abortion if it becomes necessary to enforce the intent of the parties.

Comment #12: Mezosub  on  08/03  at  08:25 PM

As a near total failure in undergrad, one would think I’d be more receptive to right wing resentment politics.  Then again I flamed out spectacularly and this phenomenon seems like a championing of mediocrity.

Comment #13: semi_factual  on  08/03  at  08:40 PM

I think Piator is kidding.

Comment #14: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/03  at  09:36 PM

Paitor, I know what you mean, but you might want to use /sarcasm or /social conservative as a close tag next time. smile

And you already know the answer to it, but for the benefit of others: women don’t have a special right. When a man gets pregnant, he gets to chose whether he wants to carry it to term or not. It is not the fault of the law he cannot actually get pregnant.

Comment #15: Samantha Vimes  on  08/03  at  09:38 PM

To be fair, as a former Plan II-er, there was a lot of anti-Plan II sentiment, and it crossed political lines.  We were considered pretentious pricks (a lot of us were).  If you looked at the white butcher-paper covered tables outside the UGL when people were signing up for classes, you could see that.  On other majors, people wrote practical advice: “don’t take Hart’s chem class, he sucks!” or “Buskirk is awesome for BIO303L”. On ours, it was hate mail. “Get a real major” “pretentious assholes” etc. etc. etc.

Of course, that doesn’t discount how brainless this guy’s letter was. The Daily Texan’s Firing Line was full of douchebag mini-rants from conservatives scared of smarty pants, “liberal” biases in courses, affirmative action. Oh, also a lot of feminist haters, gun nuts, whiney nice boys who can’t get laid, and of course, the Libertarians.  But it’s kinda interesting also, cause you get to see conservative thinking in its infancy (which, sadly, isn’t that much less sophisticated than the most evolved conservative logic).

Comment #16: t-ster  on  08/03  at  09:49 PM

Look, men don’t get to choose about pregnancies - so why should women have special rights?

You laugh now, but I’ve heard someone make that exact argument in earnest.

Comment #17: Rebecca  on  08/03  at  10:04 PM

OT - are comments closed now on the sports culture and rape thread? (I have it open in another tab and if they are, I’ll stop refreshing every few hours and close the tab.)

Comment #18: Rebecca  on  08/03  at  10:10 PM

t-ster, I’m aware of Plan II’s status on campus as a resentment generator.  But I don’t care how political Plan II is, this dude’s letter made no real sense.  It just shows how right wingers take a hodge podge of general resentment and aim it at lashing out at women, minorities, etc.

Comment #19: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/03  at  10:26 PM

But yeah, you’re right that he latched onto Plan II because it’s there.  Just goes to show how much it’s about free-floating resentment.  Palin’s ascendancy was, too.  You get the idea that her fans are lashing out at people who think they’re so special because they can read.

Comment #20: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/03  at  10:27 PM

You laugh now, but I’ve heard someone make that exact argument in earnest.

There’s a thin fine line between parody and obtuseness…

Comment #21: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/03  at  10:28 PM

But wait, I thought us feminists were all ugly, hairy-legged dykes who never get the dicking they so richly deserve/want, so how would we ever get pregnant not-on-purpose anyway? I HAZ A CONFUSED! My poor ladybrain!

Comment #22: mythago  on  08/03  at  10:50 PM

The whole conservative ethos seems to be, “If I’m miserable, I’m sure as hell going to make sure everyone else is miserable, too.” It reached truly ridiculous heights when a high school student was suspended for breaking his school’s “no dancing” rule outside of school grounds/hours. I mean, I can see why men want to oppress women - they get a lot of benefits from it - but punishing a kid for dancing? No one benefits from that. It’s purely wanting to make other people be miserable (as if the “no dancing” rule weren’t enough of that in the first place).

My theory is that the vast majority of anti-choicers base their politics completely on sexual jealousy. They can’t get laid, or they have too much religious guilt to properly enjoy sex, so they’re jealous of women who are having sex, especially because they perceive this sex as being without consequences, while they have consequences in the form of guilt/shame. They feel bad that other people are enjoying sex while they aren’t, so they have to tell themselves they’re morally superior in order to make themselves feel better and to convince themselves they haven’t lived their lives all wrong or gotten trapped in a loveless marriage. Their entire worldview depends on making other people as unhappy as they are.

Comment #23: Lauren O  on  08/03  at  11:13 PM

It is not the fault of the law he cannot actually get pregnant.

Ouch, watch it. You’re coming perilously close to the reasoning of the late, lamented Chief Justice William Rehnquist. He ruled that denying health benefits for pregnancy was not sex discrimination, because if men could get pregnant, they wouldn’t be covered, either.

Although I pretty much agree with you. Unwanted pregnancy is one of those situations where each party suffers in a unique way. Involuntary fatherhood sucks, but it ain’t nothin’ compared to involuntary motherhood.

Comment #24: Bitter Scribe  on  08/03  at  11:14 PM

Palin’s ascendancy was, too.  You get the idea that her fans are lashing out at people who think they’re so special because they can read.

Palin is someone who was raised with a background that valued learning and education (her father was a teacher, IIRC), and the truth was that she couldn’t “hack it” when it came to getting an education and following the bourgeois values that her family expected. Her life has been about proving to her family and those she grew up with that she doesn’t need all of that “education stuff” to get ahead. Her fanbase is like her: the people who decide they’re going to show all of those people who could make it when it came to school and professional work “who’s boss.” In Palin’s case, her parents have to shoulder some of the unknowing blame—they simply didn’t know how to deal with a child for whom learning and thinking were not her forte, and they kept expecting her to fit into a role she wasn’t cut out for, until she rebelled with a certain amount of ferocity.

That’s what we’re seeing out of these Daily Texan jokers—they’re people whose parents probably compared them unfavorably to classmates who could really perform and ended up in Plan II. Their lives have now become a cauldron of simmering resentments where they try to show that they’re really the “smart ones” and are lashing out at all the people that were always beating them at something… so this is their chance to put them in their place: even the remark ‘Surely this is not the “original thought” that she has been learning in her prestigious Plan II classes?’ is just another one of those variations of, “well, you may be book smart, but you’re not a creative, independent thinker like I [who mindlessly repeat right-wing talking points] am!”

Comment #25: Tyro  on  08/03  at  11:21 PM

Involuntary fatherhood sucks, but it ain’t nothin’ compared to involuntary motherhood.

Me, I’ve copyrighted my sperm.  If one of you grasping b****s remixes it without my permission, I’m suing!

Comment #26: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/03  at  11:27 PM

Noooo, I think you’d better sue Montgomery Burns, PiaToR.  Industry men like him are the No. 1 remixers of sperm generated by the sexually unsatisfied.  Of course, how would YOU know?  You haven’t had your three-eyed baby.  Or the b**** to blame it on.

Comment #27: shah8  on  08/03  at  11:48 PM

Palin is someone who was raised with a background that valued learning and education (her father was a teacher, IIRC), and the truth was that she couldn’t “hack it” when it came to getting an education and following the bourgeois values that her family expected. Her life has been about proving to her family and those she grew up with that she doesn’t need all of that “education stuff” to get ahead.

Undiagnosed learning disability?  That’s always been the suspicion with W.

Comment #28: Mnemosyne  on  08/04  at  12:01 AM

I find it ultimately amusing that the same people who denigrate educated people and honors track students at universities are the same people who yell “I am Joe the Plumber” in a fit of faux working class populism while they scream endlessly about scare stories about socialism.

Gee, weren’t the soviets famous for celebrating The Workers by chanting slogans in uniform cadence?

Sounds like our little boy’s biggest problem is that his pale pee pee doesn’t buy him a spot at the head of the line anymore.

Comment #29: Ms Kate  on  08/04  at  12:32 AM

Mnemosyne, I noticed Palin’s issues with comprehension of information - not wrote memorization, comprehension - were consistent with Non Verbal Learning disorders some time ago.

I have pointed this out to friends who are raising kids with this learning disability, as well as a couple of psychiatric social worker friends and gotten lots of broad agreement about her behavior and obvious problems with understanding and retrieving things she has read, and the defensive mechanisms she uses to cover for her issues.

Comment #30: Ms Kate  on  08/04  at  12:35 AM

Palin is someone who was raised with a background that valued learning and education (her father was a teacher, IIRC)

I don’t know about Palin’s parents, but I have encountered plenty of teachers and even a few Profs who disdained learning and education by doing things like putting down those who excel academically or even display actual interest in class discussions and attempting to avoid any discussion of their teaching specialty outside of…or even sometimes during class. 

Another dead giveaway if you have occasion to visit one of these types of teachers at their homes is the paucity or even the non-existence of any books in their homes.  Scarily enough, many halfway serious undergrads had larger book collections in their dorm rooms/bedrooms than some of these teachers. rolleyes

Also, there is something to be said for the possibility of rebellion and being contrarian to one’s parents….seen plenty of this among classmates who are children of academics. 

Her life has been about proving to her family and those she grew up with that she doesn’t need all of that “education stuff” to get ahead. Her fanbase is like her: the people who decide they’re going to show all of those people who could make it when it came to school and professional work “who’s boss.”

Sounds similar to the attitudes which came out of The Clash’s song “Garageland” as underscored by the lyrics:

“I don’t wanna hear about what the rich are doing
I don’t wanna go to where the rich are going
They think they’re so clever, they think they’re so right
But the truth is only known by guttersnipes”

Only thing was they were actually clever about turning around the horrid putdown they received from a music critic and using it to heap their own brand of derision and attitude back towards him and the establishment of which he is a part.  Better yet…unlike Palin’s fans…they actually pulled it off…

Comment #31: exholt  on  08/04  at  01:21 AM

Undiagnosed learning disability?  That’s always been the suspicion with W.

Possibly.  Could also be pointy-haired boss syndrome of Dilbert fame where his/her excellency cannot be bothered by “mere details”.  W certainly exhibited that with his mandate for 1 page briefings….rolleyes

Comment #32: exholt  on  08/04  at  01:35 AM

The great mass of people are only marginally literate. “Betta” the fish that actually can live in bowls, has come to be almostvuniversally spokeb the same as the Greek letter “beta”. That’s a sign of marginal literacy. Never mind that tha VW makes the Jetta and there was a movie called V for Vendetta. There’s a B, a T, and and an A; it must be “beta”.

English is not the most phonetically consistent language, but I challenge any of you to find a word where a doubled consonant is preceeded by any kind of long vowel.

Comment #33: Bacopa  on  08/04  at  02:49 AM

Bacopa, a slight mispronunciation of a vowel sound is hardly a sign of the educational apocalypse. Vowel sounds vary wildly by region; in certain parts of the American South, the E in Jetta and vendetta becomes a diphthong that could easily morph into a long vowel sound over time. Plus English has a lot of borrowed words from other languages. I don’t know where the word “betta” comes from (Latin?), but if it were in, say, Italian, with that same exact spelling, the e sound would be closer to the one in the Greek word “beta.”

The literacy rate probably is way lower than it should be, but your example doesn’t say much about it.

And if you’re going to be dissing other people’s literacy, you probably shouldn’t come up with phrases like “almostvuniversally spokeb.” Just sayin’.

Comment #34: Lauren O  on  08/04  at  03:03 AM

My theory is that the vast majority of anti-choicers base their politics completely on sexual jealousy. They can’t get laid, or they have too much religious guilt to properly enjoy sex, so they’re jealous of women who are having sex, especially because they perceive this sex as being without consequences, while they have consequences in the form of guilt/shame. They feel bad that other people are enjoying sex while they aren’t, so they have to tell themselves they’re morally superior

As someone who took until the end of college to kick the social conservatism, I can attest to the burning truth of this statement.  Part of the reason I have such a negative view of conservatives is my personal experience that so many conservative beliefs are grounded in jealousy and resentment.

Comment #35: The Main Gauche of Mild Reason  on  08/04  at  04:19 AM

Roll.

What do I win?

Comment #36: asdf  on  08/04  at  04:20 AM

Main Gauche - Yeah, it was the basis for much of my world view in high school. The boys always like the popular girls instead of me, so I just told myself those girls were sluts. My sister actually explicitly said to me once, “You know, sometimes I get so mad at [friend], but then I remember that she’s a total slut, and I’m just literally a better person than her.” This was followed a few days later by complaining how she wasn’t getting enough sex. I was like, I thought you decided sluts were bad people?

Comment #37: Lauren O  on  08/04  at  04:54 AM

Lauren O, you’re talking about something that would happen over many years, in specific environments.  Instead it’s everywhere.  It’s not stupidity so much as never having learned that general rule, and you don’t learn that rule if you don’t read much.

Comment #38: oldfeminist  on  08/04  at  05:25 AM

“I don’t know where the word “betta” comes from (Latin?)”

Southeast Asia.  Specifically Thai, I think.

“It’s not stupidity so much as never having learned that general rule, and you don’t learn that rule if you don’t read much.”

Or you learned early on, as an English speaker, that a lot of our loan words or names of foreign extract don’t conform to general English rules of pronunciation and that it’s probably the better bet to go with the pronunciation you keep hearing in those instances rather than what it “should” be according to English pronunciation rules.  Though it would be a bit hilarious if we did start pronouncing the Hispanic name Jesus with a j instead of an h, insisted on saying “resume” instead of “résumé,” stopped putting an r in colonel, etc.

Comment #39: preying mantis  on  08/04  at  08:36 AM

“Betta” the fish that actually can live in bowls, has come to be almostvuniversally spokeb the same as the Greek letter “beta”. That’s a sign of marginal literacy.

Not really, no.  It’s a sign of the way that people look for patterns, cognates, and other sorts of landmarks in language, just like we do for other things.  Betta/Beta is no different than Chaise Longue/Chaise Lounge, or any other shift in language to make it more logical or within our expectations.  Our brains like patterns and logic, that’s all.

If anything, the fact that people want a fish called “Betta” to be a fish called “Beta” (and pronounce it the same as the Greek letter) means that people are probably more broadly literate today than we once were.  Marginally literate people tend not to know the Greek alphabet [insert frat joke here].

I worry more about marginal literacy when I leave clearly written notes for someone and they STILL don’t know what to do.  Or the fact that, when my coworkers and I went on unemployment en masse due to the WGA strike last year, I was somehow the only one of us who actually read the huge bold sentence on the main page of the state unemployment website that explained how to set up direct deposit of benefits.

Comment #40: The Opoponax  on  08/04  at  09:49 AM

I challenge any of you to find a word where a doubled consonant is preceeded by any kind of long vowel.

Pizza.

Comment #41: BABH  on  08/04  at  09:54 AM

“Betta” the fish that actually can live in bowls, has come to be almostvuniversally spokeb the same as the Greek letter “beta”. That’s a sign of marginal literacy

No, that’s a sign of a changing language and different dialects.  Languages change.  Get over it.  What counts as “right” is what most people understand, not just what has been around longer or what someone deems as right.  I could just as easily call you marginally literate because you don’t use old English words like “thee”, or you don’t put a bunch of Us in words like harbor or neighbor.  The point of language is to convey ideas, so whatever accomplishes that is the correct way to do it.

Comment #42: bananacat  on  08/04  at  10:25 AM

and your backwards desire to be a man to thank for that.

I think this statement is the real reason for this guy’s resentment.  He doesn’t like them wimmin being smarter or more successful than he is with his mighty penis, so they must be forced to have babies against their will so that they’ll drop out of school and stop being more successful than him.  It’s the only way for him to show of his manly manliness because he knows he’s not actually smarter or better than most women, and he just can’t handle the competition.

Comment #43: bananacat  on  08/04  at  10:29 AM

Ever since the I Hate Music conversation I’ve been trying to figure out what it is about our culture that makes us run for opposite extremes (“goddamn honor roll kids” versus “illiterate fish-mispronouncers, all of you, ALL OF YOU.”) Certainly resentment of anyone who’s got a tiny advantage over you in some way is the product of thinking of success or talent as individual and a zero sum game rather than something that might have collective benefits; I also think our culture doesn’t have a lot of spaces where it’s okay to be medium-skilled and medium-interested in something: the thing where you’re either a professional or at least competitive dancer or you don’t dance, and you never play sports after college because really what’s the point. I think this is a reason so many bright kids go for useless PhD’s - they don’t perceive that there’s a lot of outlets for genuine intellectual inquiry outside becoming a professor. This is probably tied to the whole American hatred for leisure time. At least we have blogs, so that we can pursue our interests while we’re at work?

Comment #44: purpleshoes  on  08/04  at  10:48 AM

oh and in conclusion because for a lot of people there’s no space to be medium-good at something in adult life (for many people with soulless jobs and horrible commutes) you get resentful and dismissive towards those few people who are really good. Because bitterness?

Comment #45: purpleshoes  on  08/04  at  10:50 AM

purpleshoes, ha, I’m running into that. I picked up playing the bass recently, and keep getting asked “so why are you playing? Do you want to be a rock star?” No, dude, I just want to play, it’s interesting and relaxing. I don’t care if I only get to medium-good (that would actually be great). But it’s like there is no category for such behavior.

We are a competitive culture—or rather, we’re obsessed with competing. Which is why we spend millions to watch dudes in tight pants chase a ball around a field but can’t be arsed to fund basic arts programs at our kids’ schools.

Comment #46: emjaybee  on  08/04  at  11:26 AM

Hey, don’t knock watching dudes in tight pants!

Comment #47: rea  on  08/04  at  11:55 AM

emjaybee, I have a friend who did bit parts in the local Nutcracker production into her forties because she just really loved the hell out of ballet. She encountered lots of weird comments from people, but she also really loved the hell out of ballet and kept stomping around in a leotard even after having children, which no one does.

Personal heroine of mine, is all I’m saying. Keep playing that bass. We keep talking about how no one takes time to cook, and I think the same could be said for all the hobbies that get crushed under competition’s heel. It’s sad that as a culture we don’t have space for doing things for the joy of it.

Rea, it is true, I would not say a word against watching dudes in tight pants. I advocate for more dudes in tight pants in everyday life?

Comment #48: purpleshoes  on  08/04  at  12:08 PM

Nixon got one thing wrong (OK, many things, but I’m speaking of the Franklins vs. cool kids trope), and it’s an important thing that carries on to this day.

It’s not that “cool kids” (whatever that means) think they’re better than you. It’s that they don’t think of you at all. That’s the source of all this conservative resentment. And, no, there is no end game to that.

No one or group of ones can ever be responsible for the esteem in which some other one or group of ones holds themselves. (Tortured sentence, but you acquires my drift…)

Twelve step programs for everybody!

Comment #49: Rael  on  08/04  at  12:13 PM

Certainly resentment of anyone who’s got a tiny advantage over you in some way is the product of thinking of success or talent as individual and a zero sum game rather than something that might have collective benefits; I also think our culture doesn’t have a lot of spaces where it’s okay to be medium-skilled and medium-interested in something: the thing where you’re either a professional or at least competitive dancer or you don’t dance, and you never play sports after college because really what’s the point.

I addressed this phenomenon at 11:06 PM 01/19 here:

I remember Mother Avenger’s best friend telling me how as a child the mothers in her neighborhood in Ohio would have the windows open on a Saturday morning so that their kids could listen to the Metropolitian Opera broadcast in an effort to implant the seed of culture into their offspring, even if it was with stories set to music involving adultery, tragedies of love, death, damnation if not outright annihilation of the universe.

Comment #50: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  08/04  at  12:27 PM

Dark Avenger, and see, I feel like our present dynamic is that there would be no reason to do that unless you intended to 1) be a consumer of opera as a commodity (something that’s prohibitively expensive to do firsthand) or 2) be a professional opera producer. And I think the idea that you could love opera for its own weird self as opposed to needing to know about opera to communicate your class status to someone else is something that a lot of people (me included, on a bad antiintellectualism day) just don’t get. Pleasure in things for the sake of pleasure just doesn’t factor into American antiintellectual thinking. The only justification a good antiintellectual can think of for liking opera is to make someone else feel bad for not understanding opera. What a sad little system to live in.

Comment #51: purpleshoes  on  08/04  at  12:40 PM

I remember Mother Avenger’s best friend telling me how as a child the mothers in her neighborhood in Ohio would have the windows open on a Saturday morning so that their kids could listen to the Metropolitian Opera broadcast in an effort to implant the seed of culture into their offspring, even if it was with stories set to music involving adultery, tragedies of love, death, damnation if not outright annihilation of the universe.

he only justification a good antiintellectual can think of for liking opera is to make someone else feel bad for not understanding opera.

Most people who had parents and relatives as described above ended up growing to passionately hate such genres of music, especially those forced to learn classical instruments like the piano regardless of whether they were interested or not.

It’s one reason why people associated with classical music tend to be negatively stereotyped as being stuffy and snobby towards those who aren’t as “sophisticated”.  Ironic when most conservatory majors I’ve met vehemently disdained such snobs not only for their hypocrisy as they are often BS their “sophisticated knowledge”, but also for ruining the enjoyment of classical music for everyone else.

Comment #52: exholt  on  08/04  at  01:03 PM

The whole conservative ethos seems to be, “If I’m miserable, I’m sure as hell going to make sure everyone else is miserable, too.”

Lauren O.,

I’m not sure this is exclusively or even mostly a conservative ethos.  There are plenty of people with other political persuasions I’ve come across who do the same. 

Only main differences I’ve noticed was that conservatives and some extreme left groups like your doctrinaire Marxists/Maoists at my undergrad tend to be quite miserable/angry while carrying out their actions in a mean-spirited vicious manner. 

Most everyone else at least try to have some light-hearted fun in creativity and process of making others miserable.  Think lighthearted easygoing high school/college prankster creatively finding ways to ridicule/undermine those who want to force conformity on him/her vs those who hate everyone else unless they conform exactly to their worldview….

Comment #53: exholt  on  08/04  at  01:19 PM

really what’s the point

I think this phrase/sentence sums it all up nicely.  We have an obsession in American culture with Utility (tm) .  You can’t just do something because you like it, or it interests you, or it’s fun.  It has to be USEFUL or WORTHWHILE. 

I recently commented to a friend that I’ve been listening to Welsh language podcasts, and that it would be cool to speak Welsh.  Since I’m not ethnically Welsh, have never visited Wales (and have no concrete plans to do so anytime soon), and since there are basically no native speakers of Welsh who are not at least highly conversant in English, my friend responded by giggling and asking, “But what’s the point? I mean, shouldn’t you learn a language that would be useful, like Chinese or Swahili something?” 

The crux of the “ivory tower intellectuals!” vs. “stupid fish-mispronouncers!” argument is utility.  The anti-intellectuals have determined that anyone with a knowledge base that is “better” (or, really, just somewhat different) than theirs is a horrible elitist wasting everyone’s time and tax dollars on worthless pursuits.  The intelligentsia sympathizers feel that the knuckle-dragging joe sixpacks are wasting their time on stupid crap like NASCAR and fishing rather than more useful activities like “bettering themselves”.  What I do is practical and worthwhile.  What you do: what’s the point, really?

Comment #54: The Opoponax  on  08/04  at  01:31 PM

Most people who had parents and relatives as described above ended up growing to passionately hate such genres of music, especially those forced to learn classical instruments like the piano regardless of whether they were interested or not.

FWIW, my mother’s best friend did have as one of the books in her library a collection of opera librettos with some of the arias with the music as well.  She did become involved in the arts so that she had worked as a window dresser in the SF Bay Area, and when she moved down here and became a “housewife”, she directed my mother at the local community theater in several plays she even directed me and the kids in the Unitarian youth group to do a play by Sławomir Mrożek, which is pretty advanced for small-town CA in 1977 grin .

Father Avenger never heard any Beethoven until he took a music appreciation class in college, as a result he would play Beethoven as part of family time from the moment he acquired a combination radio-phongraph about the size of a home water cooler soon after he got married.  As a result, I can’t remember when I didn’t know the Master of Bonn’s symphonies, and it laid the foundation down for my piano talent to flourish in my late teens when I decided on my own to take music lessons, which was done in part to attract members of the opposite sex.

I should add that when I was 4 I turned down taking music lessons, which I think was because it was too early to ask me to make a considered opinion, and I deliberately flunked my music test for finding band members in elementary/middle school because it didn’t appeal to me.

I’m of the opinion of H.L. Mencken that anyone with a genuine love of music will try to make some music at some point in time, and the parents do better to expose their children to art and not make it a higher form of drudgery because it’s what everyone else is doing as well.

exholt also reminds me of this:

DON JUAN. [determinedly] I say the most licentious of human
institutions: that is the secret of its popularity. And a woman seeking
a husband is the most unscrupulous of all the beasts of prey. The
confusion of marriage with morality has done more to destroy the
conscience of the human race than any other single error. Come, Ana!
do not look shocked: you know better than any of us that marriage is
a mantrap baited with simulated accomplishments and delusive
idealizations. When your sainted mother, by dint of scoldings and
punishments, forced you to learn how to play half a dozen pieces on the
spinet which she hated as much as you did—had she any other purpose
than to delude your suitors into the belief that your husband would have
in his home an angel who would fill it with melody, or at least play him
to sleep after dinner? You married my friend Ottavio: well, did you ever
open the spinet from the hour when the Church united him to you?

ANA. You are a fool, Juan. A young married woman has something else to
do than sit at the spinet without any support for her back; so she gets
out of the habit of playing.

DON JUAN. Not if she loves music. No: believe me, she only throws away
the bait when the bird is in the net.

ANA. [bitterly] And men, I suppose, never throw off the mask when
their bird is in the net. The husband never becomes negligent, selfish,
brutal—oh never!

DON JUAN. What do these recriminations prove, Ana? Only that the hero is
as gross an imposture as the heroine.

Comment #55: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  08/04  at  01:35 PM

Opoponax, I am sure we can agree that there is also, lurking somewhere at the bottom of the anti-intellectualism thing, the remnants of some real historical distinctions between what kinds of knowledge are valued / associated with the prosperous classes and what kinds of knowledge are seen as redneckery / lower-classishness. I mean, there was a period, historically, where speaking a second, useless language was a highly valued trait and knowing how to skin a squirrel or distinguish edible mushrooms was at best a cute hobby, and if done too often, the sign of being a complete rube. Of course, in our current economic surroundings, speaking Welsh and skinning a squirrel effectively have about equal utility for most people. But just because the current false populism is usually, well, false doesn’t mean that there aren’t some real historical issues there, yes?

I keep thinking of a grade-school teacher of mine who asked a bunch of kids from backwoods Appalachia to come to class one day and teach her a skill they knew. Now, I was in a blended class with some remedial kids who were actually illiterate at age ten; one of them stood up on the desk and essentially turned a pine tree into a working hunting bow right in front of us, which has impressed me ever since*. Surely there is some meta-equivalent of that lesson that could defuse right-wing anti-intellectualism? Surely some of these pundits have useful life skills they could feel proud of?

*I shudder to think what would have happened to this kid in today’s schools. He was whittling with a bowie knife and everything.

Comment #56: purpleshoes  on  08/04  at  01:48 PM

Purpleshoes, I sincerely doubt that many of today’s “rednecks” have even the marginal survival skills that their parents did.  I doubt you would find many that even know how to properly butcher game - they take it to the butcher on the edge of town, who uses heavy equipment to turn it into recognizable cuts of meat. Maybe that is part of their collective anxiety attack - they really are useless and they know it!

Comment #57: Ms Kate  on  08/04  at  02:05 PM

“Surely some of these pundits have useful life skills they could feel proud of?”

evidence please

Comment #58: jefft452  on  08/04  at  02:14 PM

<i>“I doubt you would find many that even know how to properly butcher game - they take it to the butcher on the edge of town, who uses heavy equipment to turn it into recognizable cuts of meat. Maybe that is part of their collective anxiety attack - they really are useless and they know it!”<\i>

Yep

Comment #59: jefft452  on  08/04  at  02:24 PM

Possibly, Ms Kate, but then again it would not at all surprise me if many of them know how to fix a car, or clean a shotgun, or gut a fish.  None of which are terribly useful pieces of knowledge (in my world, anyway), and none of which are particularly interesting to me.  But they’re definitely things I don’t know how to do.

And, yep, purpleshoes, I do have to wonder how much of this comes out of long-buried class differences which may or may not be relevant anymore (very few Americans hunt at a subsistence level, for instance, while a college degree is one of the most basic and practical skill sets in American society).

Comment #60: The Opoponax  on  08/04  at  03:04 PM

“it would not at all surprise me if many of them know how to fix a car, or clean a shotgun, or gut a fish”

Really?  It would shock the hell out of me

The goobers you see at Sara Palin rallies aint exactly Natty Bumpo.

Comment #61: jefft452  on  08/04  at  03:17 PM

It’s not that “cool kids” (whatever that means) think they’re better than you. It’s that they don’t think of you at all. That’s the source of all this conservative resentment. And, no, there is no end game to that.

  [emphasis added]

I never thought of it like that before, but that is totally it.  I’ve toasted many a brain cell trying to figure out why “conservatives” are so resentful of….everything.  People that have education, people that have more sex (or any sex at all), people that have good sex, people that are smarter than they are.  People that are probably happier than they are.*  Why “conservatives” over and over again vote and act out of their own best interests.  It makes them feel like they are part of something.  Anything.  Even if it is being part of a greater group of stupid.

All pre-election season I would watch these people at the McCain/Palin rallies and just not understand it.  But it really does boil down to this is the only time in their existences that they’ve felt part of it.  Even though they are being used, somebody - generally people just as goddamn dumb as they are - is finally thinking of them, even if it is to their own detriment.

*This is not to say that there aren’t multitudes of people out there that are smarter, happier, having better or more sex than I am right now.

Comment #62: kac90b  on  08/04  at  03:35 PM

Especially when the academic rigor of the academic workload in Ivy/Ivy-level schools or honors track programs in many state/private universities are not THAT much more than the standard college curriculum fare in the experiences of many friends who transferred from a lower-ranked state/private school to their school’s honors track and/or an Ivy/Ivy-level school.

I guess that depends on the school, but I knew a few transfers to my alma mater (which was private, but not Ivy) who complained about the much more difficult workload compared to their state universities.

Comment #63: keshmeshi  on  08/04  at  03:39 PM

Exholt, I suggest the following for those suffering from classical music snobbishness
http://www.sonicbids.com/epk/epk.aspx?epk_id=209645&poll;_id=&name=video&skin_id=21&osk;=&primary=9966CC&secondary=FF9900&btn=99CCCC&btnh=9966CC

ALong with a good dose of Camille San Saens “Carnival of Animals”

Comment #64: phylosopher  on  08/04  at  07:33 PM

Shoot, the above link was to read

http://www.beethovenswig.com/

The “trades”  lose out everyday - and that’s what makes the resentment.  Fix a car?  Not possible for anyone anymore because of all the computerized parts that mean you need special equipment to read the codes which keeps you going to the dealer for all but really routine maintenance, and even that is computerized (Yeah, I can change the oil, but how do I reset the oil scanner system?)  And this form someone who put together one good car from three back in the ‘70’s.

There are so many jobs that simply do not exist anymore, have ben severely cut via mechanization, or morphed into somethig else,  that were once thought so essential they would never go away:

Mail carrier
telephone operator
Meter reader
Furniture maker
Farmer
chef/cook
doctor
hair stylist (not cutter, but “do-er”)
secretary
receptionist
laundry
tailor
bookkeeper
Shoe repair/maker
plumber (pvc)
train conductor
train crew
miner

Comment #65: phylosopher  on  08/04  at  07:50 PM

English is not the most phonetically consistent language, but I challenge any of you to find a word where a doubled consonant is preceeded by any kind of long vowel.

That would be just about every word with a doubled consonant spoken by a non-Kiwi to my ears.  You’re mistaking phonetic drift for lack of education - languages evolve.

Comment #66: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/04  at  07:56 PM

I worry more about marginal literacy when I leave clearly written notes for someone and they STILL don’t know what to do.

Many people just don’t read directions.  And I really hate to say it, but there are people out there who are just plain dumb.  I used to think that education was an important indicator of intelligence, but I’ve just known way too many well-educated people who are as dumb as posts and can’t follow simple directions.

Comment #67: keshmeshi  on  08/04  at  08:17 PM

It’s funny that opera is now the music of the elite.  It used to be the music of the people.  Fishermen would know Verdi arias by heart.

Comment #68: keshmeshi  on  08/04  at  08:18 PM

I worry more about marginal literacy when I leave clearly written notes for someone and they STILL don’t know what to do.

Unless you are one of those people for whom “clearly written note” equals “note which omits key details that are simply NOT intuitively obvious”.  Sometimes it is their comprehension ... sometimes. it is your writing that is the issue.

You’d be surprised how many scientists will fuss and fume that they “write clearly” when they really do not, and then fuss and fume that a clear, detailed explanation is somehow “dumbing down” their beautiful and perfect (ly jargonistic and pedantic) high level writing (inscrutable piece of shit).

Comment #69: Ms Kate  on  08/04  at  10:07 PM

I never thought of it like that before, but that is totally it.  I’ve toasted many a brain cell trying to figure out why “conservatives” are so resentful of….everything.  People that have education, people that have more sex (or any sex at all), people that have good sex, people that are smarter than they are.  People that are probably happier than they are.* Why “conservatives” over and over again vote and act out of their own best interests.  It makes them feel like they are part of something. Anything.  Even if it is being part of a greater group of stupid.

It’s true. People who are in favor of gay rights and reproductive rights don’t need to think about what kind of sex conservatives are having.

Comment #70: Rebecca  on  08/04  at  10:51 PM

It’s funny that opera is now the music of the elite.  It used to be the music of the people.  Fishermen would know Verdi arias by heart.

What’s really interesting about that is that the “middleman” has completely died out. Opera has always existed for the upper class, whether that was the aristocracy or the haute bourgeoisie - the lower classes got it via vaudevilles and parodies and street singers. Those are gone, and the houses that used to be affordable to the people aren’t any more.

...and I’ll stop telling you about my research now.

Comment #71: Rebecca  on  08/04  at  10:58 PM

Sometimes it is their comprehension ... sometimes. it is your writing that is the issue.

Could be these two variables, choosing to not follow directions, or possibly being dumb. 

One great example I kept seeing in academia….students who complain about their lower-than-expected grades because they didn’t bother to read clearly delineated points about the grading rubric and the breakdown.  rolleyes

One example IME was how in a few classes so many classmates failed to realize that class participation counted for 10-20% of the grade and that “negative class participation” will result in deducted class participation points even though it was clearly stated in bold print on the syllabi…..and they were shocked when they found they ended up with Bs, Cs, or even Fs as their final grade at the end of the term.  Makes one wonder whether those students even bothered to read the syllabus for the entire term….

Another example from one job I was at….even though the IT department clearly instructed the entire office to not open known emails pretending to have attachments of picture files of a famous female tennis star, the vast majority of the office ended up doing so causing us to lose one whole workday.  Though there were a few of us who were wise enough to avoid this mistake, so many colleagues did so that no work could be done that day because a lot of it was dependent on the work from other departments…. rolleyes

Comment #72: exholt  on  08/04  at  11:01 PM

Ms. Kate, I meant it in a more condescending way smile Perhaps if conservative pundits could get more praise for teaching us to sew on a button or accurately use an Excel macro they would calm down about their perceived inferiority to someone to who took two AP classes more than them in high school. Everybody’s got skills! Many people don’t have very strong arguments for why liberals are scary.

Also, while I may have indicated a false equivalence between “redneck” and “conservative” (I have know democrat-voting bootleggers, fer chrissakes) I am only in my mid-twenties, so really, I don’t think I’m speaking of a long-gone generation of competent hicks. Whether any said competent hicks are prominent pundits, I don’t know. I’m only half-hick, competent only where squirrel guts aren’t involved, and a blog commenter.

Comment #73: purpleshoes  on  08/05  at  12:36 AM

Another cure for classical music/classical opera snobbishness:

Anne Russell

“It’s all true, you know, I’m not making anything up.”

Comment #74: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  08/05  at  01:08 AM

“Everybody’s got skills!”
again, evidence please

A plumbers license dosent make you the Albert Einstein of plumbers, it means you have the bare minimum of skills and knowledge of basic plumbing to be trusted around pipes.  Even crappy plumbers are able to get one

But when they wanted to create the Joe the Plumber character, the best they could come up with was a welfare bum who got a job as a gofer at a plumbing company

“Joe the plumber” couldn’t make a living as a plumber not because mean ole Obama razed his taxes, or because affirmative action gave all the licenses to undeserving black people, or because of too much gub’ment regulation

He couldn’t make a living as a plumber because he is a dumbass

Its not just they “aint got no fancy book learning”
They aint got no other kind of learning neither

Comment #75: jefft452  on  08/05  at  02:02 AM

I love Anna Russell.

“She’s the only woman Siegfried’s ever met who hasn’t been his aunt - I’m not making this up, you know!”

Comment #76: Rebecca  on  08/05  at  07:57 AM

well, exactly, jefft. I don’t know how many times I need to sunnily restate that it would be better if people whose self-perception hinges on bitching about someone who has one iota more accomplishment in any area would be better served by finding something they were genuinely good at and doing it well, and I think Amanda’s point about the false populism of being slightly worse at something very white-collar than someone else is well made. I don’t think Joe the Plumber is necessarily an incompetent human being, just a lousy plumber, writer, and political figure. But think about how much we would have been spared if he had discovered his true calling and been recognized for being, I don’t know, a competent book-binder or decorative vase maker or what-the-heck ever and not felt driven to go on to become an incompetent pundit. I’m not saying better vocational education in the schools and respect for the trades would have spared us Joe the Plumber; just that it would have been nice if it had.

Of course, we hate it when Republicans say “so and so is just bitching about systemic impediments because they weren’t very good at their job”. Maybe Joe the Plumber actually does have secret knowledge that in a Mad Max-style Libertarian fantasy land with no taxes and moose hunting for all he would have been KING, do you hear me, the KING OF THE OHIO TERRITORIES.

But I doubt it.

Comment #77: purpleshoes  on  08/05  at  11:40 AM

the best they could come up with was a welfare bum who got a job as a gofer at a plumbing company

To be fair, Joe wasn’t a “welfare bum” ... he was a single parent without other income.  Single adults cannot get welfare in most states.

Comment #78: Ms Kate  on  08/05  at  11:43 AM

Perhaps if conservative pundits could get more praise for teaching us to sew on a button or accurately use an Excel macro they would calm down about their perceived inferiority to someone to who took two AP classes more than them in high school.

Ha! If only such skills were easily concentrated among one particular political affiliation…...

As for AP classes….not sure about what’s to be jealous about.  Knew plenty of people including yours truly who never took/were barred from taking AP classes in high school who ended up doing far better than many people with massive AP/IB credits/classes in honors programs or Ivy/Ivy-level institutions.

Considering the wide variability in the rigor and quality of AP/IB classes at many public/private schools, I’ve seen a trend where many Ivy/Ivy-level institutions won’t accept AP credits to place out of major/core requirements and will only grudgingly accept such credits as “elective credits” if one scored a 5 on the AP test or the equivalent on the IB….if they bothered to accept them at all. 

I don’t think Joe the Plumber is necessarily an incompetent human being, just a lousy plumber

Considering he was making $40K as a “plumber” in NE Ohio, he was making out like a bandit compared to most when making $25-30k meant you were comfortably well-off in that area…...

Comment #79: exholt  on  08/05  at  03:24 PM

purpleshoes,
sorry I didn’t mean to come off so hostile (well… not to anyone here anyway)

But things like hog butchering and auto repair are skills that need to be learned the same way us fancy pants elitist city slickers had to learn the skill we have

Do you think that any of those salt of the earth good Americans who believe that Palin could learn foreign policy “by osmosis” because she lives in a state with a foreign border put the time and effort into learning how to tie a fishing fly, field dress a moose, or rebuild a carburetor?

No, they’re not dumbasses, their lazy dumbasses

The reason Rush Limbaugh is on in the middle of the workday is because there is no chance that “the angry white male” will ever have to miss a show because he’s busy fixing his car or, god forbid, gets a job

Comment #80: jefft452  on  08/05  at  05:12 PM

Do you think that any of those salt of the earth good Americans who believe that Palin could learn foreign policy “by osmosis” because she lives in a state with a foreign border put the time and effort into learning how to tie a fishing fly, field dress a moose, or rebuild a carburetor?

Short answer:  Yes?

Long answer:  While I assume we’d agree politically, your argument seems… that because they are angry and white and have political beliefs different than ours, that they must inherently be incompetent.

I really hope I don’t have to point out why that’s a very bad argument?

Comment #81: HavePatience  on  08/05  at  05:25 PM

“your argument seems… that because they are angry and white and have political beliefs different than ours, that they must inherently be incompetent.”

No,  My argument is that they are failures in everything they try due to incompetence and that leads to the anger and the political beliefs different than ours

Example:
Say there are 100 jobs/promotions/collage admissions or what ever
99 go to white guys and one to a black guy

If a black guy tell me that it looks like the don’t like hiring black guys, Id say yeah, it does look that way

If the one white guy who didn’t get the spot tells me he was reversed discriminated against, Id say I don’t know chief, being white hasn’t slowed down the rest of us any.  Maybe its just you

Comment #82: jefft452  on  08/05  at  05:41 PM

PS
Angry white male was in quotes because it was how the press referred their pet demographic of the Gingrich era

I’m white and male myself and as you can probably tell, I’m not immune to anger

Comment #83: jefft452  on  08/05  at  05:47 PM

Long answer:  While I assume we’d agree politically, your argument seems… that because they are angry and white and have political beliefs different than ours, that they must inherently be incompetent.

I really hope I don’t have to point out why that’s a very bad argument?

Butting in: it looks like jefft452 is arguing, not what you say, but that people who think that foreign policy knowledge is acquired by proximity to a foreign country, rather than by study, might also think that they do not need to do that “learning” thing because they live near a lake, a moose-populated forest, or a motor vehicle.

Comment #84: Rebecca  on  08/05  at  10:31 PM

rebecca,
thanks, yeah thats what i was going for

Comment #85: jefft452  on  08/05  at  11:24 PM
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