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Next entry: Ten Questions Nobody Ever Asked About George W. Bush Previous entry: There are more Twinkies in America than dreamt of in your philosophy

How to be funny: a rudimentary lesson for wingnuts

I’m sure by now you’ve seen this video posted by the Minnesota GOP.  It suggests that Republican women are, as a rule, sexually attractive but Democratic women are not. 

Sarah Palin claimed that a “cackle of rads” hijacked feminism (in the same tweet, she also demonstrated a level of understanding of the word “ironic” that would put Alanis Morisette’s to shame!), implying that it’s up to conservatives to reclaim what feminism used to stand for.  Perhaps this is the sort of old-fashioned “feminism” she’s talking about.  After all, the suffragettes were known for marching down the street with signs that said, “Votes For Women, For Your Mother Finds Your Countenance Displeasing”.  (Sloganeering has grown snappier since those days, making signs that much easier to carry.) 

I fear, however, as a piece of political satire, this doesn’t quite work.  I realize that humor is far from the easiest thing for wingnuts to handle, so I thought I’d, being a softie liberal, reach out and use this as a teaching moment on the subject of what humor is, and how to make it actually funny. 

The main thing to understand about humor is that it should have a point.  Even fart jokes, when viewed from the right angle, are a dark commentary on the weaknesses and humiliations of the human body.  Dick jokes often mine similar territory, but with a focus on the absurd.  Above all, good humor is rooted in a brutal honesty.

Let us examine what the point of this joke is.  Calling someone ugly isn’t necessarily always a pointless non-joke.  For instance, if someone is flailing around, calling their opponents ugly, it can often be funny to examine their own shortcomings in the hawtness department.  But the joke there is on the lack of self-awareness on the part of the person flinging “you’re ugly” around.  There are great comedians who mine self-deprecating jokes about their own looks, but usually it’s couched in some larger observations.  And you can always joke that someone’s physical ugliness is the cause of their personality flaws, but in order to do so, you have to make a convincing and snappy case as to why this must be.  I find that this is very nearly impossible to do, due to the brutal honesty requirements of humor.  It just doesn’t seem true that ugliness of the face equals ugliness of the soul.

Perhaps this video is an attempt to illustrate Rush Limbaugh’s feminists-are-just-ugly joke that feminism was invented “to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society.”  This is a common premise of conservatives, that women’s sole source of satisfaction is to be validated by male approval, and that therefore women who seek other things (such as professional success and the vote) must be lacking in this department.

But alas, the video actually disproves this premise, as the hawt Republican women, with the exception of someone like Carrie Prejean, are quite obviously women who want to access the mainstream of society for reasons other than simply being on display for men or being Mrs. So-And-So.  Sarah Palin is clearly not sitting on her laurels admiring her wedding ring.  The idea that access to professions and equality only benefits the ugly is quite nicely shown to be false in this video.

At the end of the day, the only real meaning you can get out of this video is that it’s suggesting that conservative men are so insecure that they need to have fantasy trophies to establish their masculine bona fides.  And that is funny, especially when you consider the dark pathos of a situation.  After all, the men who enjoy this video are really stretching when trying to claim the hawt women as trophies.  Sarah Palin isn’t going home with any of these dudes, you know?  Watching a video of beauty queens and good-looking politicians and feeling more manly because they vote like you is even more pathetic than thinking you’re a badass warrior because you really enjoyed that Tom Clancy novel. 


But unless the video makers were trying to put together a very subtle satire of the yearnings of anxious conservative men—-and I highly doubt that’s what’s going on—-this video flunked the “has a point” test, much less the “brutal honesty” test of good humor.

The art of the burn.  Let none of this mean that there’s no point to a well-lobbed insult in the annals of humor.  Really burning a motherfucker is a time-honored way of getting your lulz. But while many people think insulting your enemies (or perhaps even your friends, in midst of friendly competition) is easy to do, in reality, it’s an art form.  Any fool can say you’re ugly.  It takes a true artist to render an excellent burn.

I have some guidelines on the art of burning:

1) The more specific and individual the better.
2) What you single out about someone should be insightful on some level, and if it invokes the pathos of the human condition, so much the better.
3) You should have a good reason why you think the trait thus singled out is shameful.  “Just because” isn’t a reason.
4) Honesty and truth!  Logical consistency also helps.
5) Your burn shouldn’t reveal aspects of your own character that are far more pathetic than anything you’re putting on your target. 

Let us look at the two favorite—-and often sole—-insults that conservatives aim at liberal women:

A) You employ your vagina in the service of orgasm-related activities more than I approve of.

B) You are insufficiently attractive enough to get the kind of attention that would result in orgasm-related activities. 

Some wingnuts are smart enough to see the rhetorical (if not real world, since ugly people get laid) contradiction between their two official stances on liberal and especially feminist women, but said wingnuts are rarely smart enough to maintain this understanding for more than 2-3 minutes at a time.  So perhaps they will tell one feminist that she’s only a feminist because she’s ugly, and then another that she’s only a feminist because she gets way too much male attention and thus is in constant need of contraception and abortion services.  They will not stop to think about the contradictions between the motivations that they ascribe to why women would give up their natural inclinations to wish for second class citizenship.  But sometimes they’ll be wise enough not to call someone ugly and suggest she’s knee deep in male attention at the same time.  Sometimes.

These two attacks fail basically every measure of how to rate a burn.  They’re rarely specific in any way—-on the contrary, “ugly”, “slut”, or “ugly slut” is the generic insult that wingnuts grab for if their adversary shows signs of being female, and it often takes a Herculean struggle to get them to consider anything else.  Gender is the sum total of the woman in their minds.  “Ugly” is generally a bad burn because it’s both subjective and doesn’t really speak to the human condition on any deeper level than the literal surface.  Any and all insults that pertain to the overuse of the vagina as defined by the wingnut in question fails test #3.  Very rarely does a wingnut have an articulate reason for their arbitrary limits on how much sex or how many partners they deem appropriate for a woman—-in fact, if pressed, they often can’t tell you what the limit is they’ve accused you of exceeding.  Obviously, the logical consistency aspect fails—-if you believe that a woman employing her vagina in partner-oriented orgasm-related activities is something that can happen too often, then ugliness should be a quality to aspire towards as a potential limiting factor.  And then there’s the honesty and truth aspects.  The indiscriminate use of the ugly-and-slutty insults makes the obvious inaccuracy of the accusations a common problem.  I, for instance, cannot speak to my attractiveness without threatening the bonds of humility, but I can say the constant accusations that I frequently have abortions and engage in sexual intercourse with many partners routinely simply don’t reflect my rather mundane realities, even if you assume (as I do not) that those behaviors are wrong.

Plus, there’s the dishonesty within this video that attempts to insult Democratic women.  The editor engages in naked photoshopping, to begin with.  But there’s also the Big Lie, which is the selective use of just a handful of women that are, to anyone being honest, hardly representative of the breadth and diversity of women who vote for or openly support either party.  It’s such a blatant bit of non-truth that it violates guideline #5—-we learn far more about the person who made the video, and his epic levels of delusion, than we do about the effect that politics has on the sexual attractiveness of women. 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:20 AM • (121) Comments

There is nothing the Republicans can do that will change my belief that the iconic Republican woman is Phyllis Schafly—ugly in spirit and mien.

Comment #1: PurpleGirl  on  08/19  at  11:30 AM

One other thought: Humor flows, and satire races, uphill only. Whatever comes downhill, it isn’t humor and it’s frequently bullying.

Comment #2: Lex  on  08/19  at  11:36 AM

Two reactions:

1. I’m glad I still can say I haven’t heard the entire “Who Let the Dogs Out?” song.

2. Janeane Garofalo is the only woman in that entire video who turns me on.  Some of the Republican women are the kind of women I wouldn’t not watch, but only Garofalo turns me on.  Must have something to do with… intelligence or something.  Condaleeza Rice has a lot of smarts, too, but that whole “Hangs out with losers” thing makes me reconsider.

Comment #3: 3letterjon  on  08/19  at  11:38 AM

I thought Rosie was an unaffiliated anarcho-syndicalist.

Comment #4: norbizness  on  08/19  at  11:46 AM

Turns out my idea of beauty is different from the maker of this video. Had a feeling it would turn out that way.

Comment #5: Mark  on  08/19  at  11:46 AM

Another thing: when is someone going to form an actual “Democrat” party?  Would it be some sort of infringement on a trademark or copyright?  It’s such a curious slur, as I’m not entirely sure if anyone is really offended.  But it is a handy shorthand for “This statement comes from a tool,” so I can’t say it’s completely ineffective as a way to get a message out.

Comment #6: 3letterjon  on  08/19  at  11:52 AM

When injuring a victim take priority over actually being funny, the joke fails (unless, I suppose, if you REALLY hate the victim or victim’s group). When the primary purpose is the joke, and the insult is secondary, it is often much funnier. Which is likely why I tend to find politically apathetic people funniest. And generalizations about whole segments of the population are very rarely funny, as they invariably fall into category 1.

If primary purpose is truth, well, that is the best of all. But I won’t hold my breath for one of those.

Comment #7: John Joel Glanton  on  08/19  at  12:00 PM

Re #6: the insistence on referring to the “Democrat party,” I guess because their focus groups say it sounds 5 percent more menacing.  It’s such an odd little tic, and it’s tiny enough that if you point it out to anyone, you’re the one who sounds like the douchebag.  I don’t really understand it either, except the robotic training you have to go through to be able to speak that way is a good indicator of tool-dom.

Comment #8: Dan Watson  on  08/19  at  12:04 PM

Wait one.  Aren’t these generally the same people who make fun of Hollywood stars as all being lockstep liberals?  Hollywood stars are ugly now?

Comment #9: elmo  on  08/19  at  12:13 PM

I personally was wondering where is Virginia Fox?  I don’t see her in the video?

If you’re going to compile a group of smoking hot Republican women, how can you leave out Virginia Fox?

And to make it even more unfair, they don’t depict hot republican men.

I mean, the visual of Newt Gingrich making it with Virginia Fox, hasn’t that spawned a thousand sexual fantasies?

Just thinking about it now I’m getting warm.

Comment #10: JennyLI  on  08/19  at  12:14 PM

I thought Rosie was an unaffiliated anarcho-syndicalist.

Don’t toy with my emotions. That’s not nice.

<blockquote>Janeane Garofalo is the only woman in that entire video who turns me on.<blockquote>

A million times this. The only plausible part of “The Truth About Cats And Dogs” is that you could certainly fall in love with her just listening to her on the radio (the implausible part is that the guy would think she’s meh in the looks departments… seriously?)

Comment #11: BlackBloc  on  08/19  at  12:17 PM

They say it for the same reason brats on the playground intentionally mangle the names of their targets of derision - they’re juvenile bullies.  What are we going to do, run to the teacher and complain, “Billy called me Aman-DUH!”  It’s intentional cruelty, but no one incident is particularly damaging - it’s the constant repetition that starts to sound like nails on a chalkboard and screw with your head.  Bullies know this - their power comes from constant small degradations, if they step over the line to something really outrageous or criminal they run the risk of losing their audience of sycophants, or getting in actual trouble for their behavior, both of which are completely unacceptable outcomes for a bully.

Comment #12: libdevil  on  08/19  at  12:18 PM

I haven’t watched the video, and I won’t.  I don’t need extra reasons to be pissed off.

But I have to say that even the concept of pitting a non-representative group of women from one party against another non-representative group of women from the other party on the basis of something as subjective as “attractiveness” is incredibly absurd.

It reminds me (for some reason) of the absurdity of Howard Stern and his crew of idiots judging the looks of women who subject themselves to his approval.

And then the absurdity (and projection) of Roach Limpballs saying “Feminism is only for ugly chicks” is quite breathtaking too.  I think it’s safe to say, and much easier to prove, that Conservatism is a way for some truly hideous wingnut men to get the feminine (or masculine) attention that they would otherwise not be able to obtain.  Glass houses, throwing stones, etc. 

In the end, I think it’s pretty sad that with all the real, difficult, issues that we face (20% unemployment for the foreseeable future, peak oil, global warming, an out of control corporatocracy and military-industrial complex, growing anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim sentiment, attempts to destroy our already feeble social safety net), some people want to just discard reality and emphasize asinine stuff meant only to stir up the troops instead of working toward realistic and achievable solutions to real problems…

Comment #13: MikeEss  on  08/19  at  12:18 PM

I don’t doubt that there’s a selection bias towards… if not exclusively physical attractiveness, then at the very least a tendency to act as pleasers, among conservative women.  I mean, by definition they’re likely to be favored under a traditional power structure and therefore have less reason to challenge it.  It’s (initially, at least) easy and comfortable for attractive/pleasing women to stick with a system that requires little from them and provides some very real benefits.  That doesn’t speak well of their character or understanding, of course, but it’s a common enough failing among those so favored by nature… another pretty obvious truism that the right prefers to ignore because it doesn’t reflect well on their side.

But of course none of this is meant to be funny in the least, because the right doesn’t seek to truly amuse and entertain people.  They are, at every level and in every situation, all about positioning and social hierarchy, and this is simply the usual hostility that they reflexively engage in to position their tribe as superior.  They just know that claiming humor is an adequate defense, because after all, funny is subjective and it’s more acceptable to be seen as slightly obnoxious than it is to reveal themselves as pure assholes.

Comment #14: latts  on  08/19  at  12:21 PM

I didn’t know Heather Locklear was a Republican.  I mean, I did know she’s in the clink a lot for driving while drunk and drugged up.  But I didn’t know she was a Republican.

I suppose I should have connected those dots.

Comment #15: JennyLI  on  08/19  at  12:22 PM

“I mean, the visual of Newt Gingrich making it with Virginia Fox, hasn’t that spawned a thousand sexual fantasies?
Just thinking about it now I’m getting warm.”

I’m getting warm too, but I just realized it’s because I pissed my pants at the thought of such a awful pairing…

Comment #16: MikeEss  on  08/19  at  12:23 PM

I mean, the visual of Newt Gingrich making it with Virginia Fox, hasn’t that spawned a thousand sexual fantasies?

<winces in pain> That HURTS, AnglScarlett.

Comment #17: GSDavis  on  08/19  at  12:25 PM

Mike, that’s all true, but the video is actually LOL funny.  They made asses out of themselves by using photoshop in some of the pics (Nancy pelosi’s for example), and by taking women who are actually not attractive, like Michele Malkin, and airbrushing and posing her until she’s passable, while using the most ridiculous shots of women who actually are quite attractive, Pelosi again, Michelle Obama Hillary, and definitely Barbara Boxer who I don’t care what anyone says, is a babe.

Not to mention many of the R pics are 20 years old (Locklear and Laura Ingrahm most obviously).

They put up pictures of Angie Harmon, but not Democrat Jennifer Aniston.  It’s just silly nonsense.  If i lived in that state I’d want to know why they didn’t have better things to do with their time.  I guess MN has no problems right?

But if you watched it you might find it doesn’t make you angry, it’s actually unintentionally hysterical.

Comment #18: JennyLI  on  08/19  at  12:26 PM

LOL @ Mike and GSdavis.

I’m sorry, I couldn’t help myself.

Comment #19: JennyLI  on  08/19  at  12:27 PM

“a cackle of rads”? I’m totally using that for my next band name.

Comment #20: Well, what?  on  08/19  at  12:28 PM

The Michelle Malkin glamour shot(is that some sort of cape?) is priceless.

Comment #21: Danzig  on  08/19  at  12:30 PM

They think Michelle Malkin is hot?

This Michelle Malkin?

http://pinstripebindi.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/michelle-malkin.jpg

Comment #22: prufrock  on  08/19  at  12:41 PM

I know, I really want to get a “I’m from the cackle of rads” t-shirt.  Or, maybe, “cackling rad here”

Comment #23: JennyLI  on  08/19  at  12:43 PM

A million times this. The only plausible part of “The Truth About Cats And Dogs” is that you could certainly fall in love with her just listening to her on the radio (the implausible part is that the guy would think she’s meh in the looks departments… seriously?)

What BB said another million times over.  Hollywood has a weird idea of “plain Jane.”

Comment #24: Woodrowfan  on  08/19  at  12:46 PM

“ugly”, “slut”, or “ugly slut” is the generic insult that wingnuts grab for if their adversary shows signs of being female, and it often takes a Herculean struggle to get them to consider anything else.  Gender is the sum total of the woman in their minds.

Gender is the sum total of woman in their minds.  Awesome.

Remember John McCain being befuddled when asked why he didn’t pick a more qualified woman as a running mate?  No woman is qualified, simply b/c women are substandard men.  There’s no such thing as a qualfied woman.

It also explains his failure to vet Palin—she’s a woman and therefore unqualified.  What could possibly pop up that would be more embarrassing than having a WOMAN on the ticket.  At least his woman is attractive.

Their stupid ‘our women are hawter’ meme comes back b/c they have nothing else.  They don’t believe women have agency, and the ones that are out there are simply PC props for male thought.  Even the bestest of them isn’t really a member of the club b/c, well, vagina!  Duh!

They don’t care if Palin misspeaks or coins words or quits.  She’s just a female prop.  And she’s good looking!!  Dammit!!

If I could figure out how to change my handle, I’d add “rad cackler”.  “Sun-blocking rad cackler” is an awesome name for ‘feminist’.

Comment #25: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/19  at  12:49 PM

Speaking of not having agency, I thought their choice of ‘She’s a Lady” was hilarious. 

“Well she always knows her place
She’s got style, she’s got grace, she’s a winner.”

“Well she’s never in the way
Something always nice to say, Oh what a blessing.”

“Well she knows me through and through,
She knows just what to do, and how to please me.”

I can see why Republican men might think such a lady is awesome, but the actions of most of the republican women pictured do not match this description of traditional lady-like virtues a la Tom Jones.

Comment #26: Ron O.  on  08/19  at  01:24 PM

And to make it even more unfair, they don’t depict hot republican men.

Tom Selleck was unavaliabe and Kelsey Grammer was in court on account of his divorce.

Yes, this is the Cargo Cult approach to funny, use lame gags while venting your misogyny at the same time.

Comment #27: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  08/19  at  01:35 PM

“She’s a Lady” was written by Paul Anka, who also wrote “(You’re) Having My Baby.”  The dots are easily connectable.

Comment #28: Russell60  on  08/19  at  01:42 PM

@Comment #22: prufrock on 08/19 at 10:41 AM

They think Michelle Malkin is hot?

This Michelle Malkin?

Actually I think Malkin looks pretty hawt, when she’s not acting insane. All kinds of women and men are good looking and as far as I can tell looks haven’t got shit to do with what kind of person they are on the inside. It’s just a random aspect of our body.

Comment #29: atheist  on  08/19  at  01:53 PM

Russel60, I didn’t know that Paul Anka wrote She’s a Lady. Must be that good, old Sephardic machismo. wink.

  Jonathna Chait at the New Republic came to the same conclusion that Amanda did in this article when the bur-ha-ha about the Arab-American winning the beauty pageant happened. He noted that a disproportionate number of prominent conservative women come from the beauty pageant circuit and he wondered why. Than some conserative site posted a list of hotest conservative women and Mr. Chait concluded that the primary role of women in the conservative women is to be attractive symbols rather than actually advance the goal. You know, trophies. This is why in the liberal movement or even in the Democratic Party, policy ideas come from both genders and so does advocacy. Conservative women rarely advance their own policy ideas but advocate that come up by conservative men.

  Personally, most of the conservative women are only attractive in the most plastic, artificial sense of the word. Its a manufactured beauty created by chemicals and surgery than real, natural beauty. Bleh. Also, I think that Michelle Bachmann looks like a nitwit, you can often see her stupidity reflected on her face just like Bush II’s moronicness often appeared on his face.

Comment #30: Lee  on  08/19  at  01:58 PM

Sorry to be Captain Obvious re: physical beauty

Comment #31: atheist  on  08/19  at  02:12 PM

Is it wise try to get sucked into the sort of game where you hurl the same kind of epithets back? I don’t think so.

Comment #32: Lee Brimmicombe-Wood  on  08/19  at  02:28 PM

Actually I think Malkin looks pretty hawt…

She’s not unattractive. Too bad I couldn’t put a paper bag put over her personality.

(Shamelessly stolen from Florence King, conservative Southern writer who knew something about picking an accurate target to insult.)

PS Was Rachel Maddow in there?

Comment #33: ThresherK  on  08/19  at  02:34 PM

Out of a bad bunch, Malkin’s probably the easiest to look at.  Something about the wild-eyed, overprocessed, Stepford-sameness of the rest of the top-shelf GOP punditrixes makes them really unattractive to me.

Malkin is also an interesting case, in that her family situation seems quite feminist - her husband left a health care policy/consulting job at Rand to be a stay-at-home dad to accommodate her career.  One wonders how she reconciles being a vocal tool of the patriarchy with a lifestyle which rejects its norms?  (As if consistency were ever really an issue for conservatives; “for thee and not for me” and all that.)

Comment #34: Dave Fried  on  08/19  at  02:38 PM

What, no Kathryn Jean Lopez?

Aside from the points Amanda already made, the “liberal chicks are ugly” meme makes no sense because it runs right up against the other stereotype about liberal chicks, which is that they’re yoga-&-health-food nuts who, while perhaps a bit flaky, are preternaturally slim and attractive.  The stereotype of sexy hippie chicks luring men over to the liberal side with their hot bods was strong enough to inspire the whole “girls say yes to boys who say no” catchphrase.  And as somebody mentioned earlier, Hollywood celebrities like Angelina Jolie are well known for almost all being flaky liberals.  For consistency, the video maker ought to be arguing that conservative men have to remain stoic in the face of temptation from all the hot women trying to lure them into the Democrat party.

Comment #35: Betoma  on  08/19  at  02:38 PM

PS Was Rachel Maddow in there?

Another woman I’d date sight unseen for her personality… I’d just need to do something about that penis I’m wearing, in order to fit in her pool of dateables.

Comment #36: BlackBloc  on  08/19  at  02:38 PM

Personally I think the more productive route is to try to 1) claim historical figures for one political side or the other and then 2) rate their hotness.  I’ll start!

1) Immanuel Kant would be a Democrat if he were alive today.
2) Immanuel Kant was a TOTAL DREAMBOAT.  XOXOXOXO

off to write kant/locke slash

Comment #37: Ferox  on  08/19  at  02:39 PM

For consistency, the video maker ought to be arguing that conservative men have to remain stoic in the face of temptation from all the hot women trying to lure them into the Democrat party.

Knowing conservatives, I’m guessing their ideal situation is marry a Republican woman, screw a Democrat on the side… considering all the hawt sex we all have on the Left because we’re irresponsible hedonistic fools.

Comment #38: BlackBloc  on  08/19  at  02:40 PM

@Ferox: Kantian Nihilist! Kantian Nihilist! (sorry, the Other snarky left blog I read is having a field day today with Randians randomly spouting anti-Kant rants)

Comment #39: BlackBloc  on  08/19  at  02:42 PM

@BlackBloc yeah, I ended up going down the rabbit hole and reading rightwing bloggers’ thoughts on Enlightenment philosophers.  It was somewhat horrifying, to say the least.

Anyway in my Kant/Locke slash I’m having Hegel show up halfway through to create a completely non-figurative dialectic.

Comment #40: Ferox  on  08/19  at  02:44 PM

I’m surprised to see so many saying that Michelle Malkin is attractive. I have to say I find her to be aggressively homely.  Bachman though, I think is better looking than Palin.  So that just goes to show how subjective a thing good looks are really.

Except for John Hamm.

I mean, we can all come together and agree that John Hamm is the droolingly best looking, hotest, sexiest,  man on earth, can’t we?

Comment #41: JennyLI  on  08/19  at  03:00 PM

I find Jon Hamm to be completely unimpressive, sorry.

Comment #42: Well, what?  on  08/19  at  03:04 PM

#41

I mean, we can all come together and agree that John Hamm is the droolingly best looking, hotest, sexiest, man on earth, can’t we?

OK: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0358316/mediaindex

I’ll give you that. He’s quite attractive.

Comment #43: atheist  on  08/19  at  03:14 PM

@AnglScarlett

I also think that Bachman is more attractive than Palin, but only when she is able to keep the absolute crazy off of her face.  From an evopsych perspective, shouldn’t all the Republican men NOT be attracted to such women?  First of all, why pass on those crazy genes and second, how can someone who thinks everyone is out to take their things possibly be a good nurturer?

I know not all Republicans are evopsychers (some, for example, believe in intelligent design), but it seems like regardless, their ideal women should be those who have been shown to produce many healthy offspring or a single brilliant and wealthy male child.  Where were Michelle Duggar and Lucianne Goldberg?

Comment #44: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/19  at  03:15 PM

I think Lee at #32 has wisely stepped outside of the paradigm this discussion has inevitably devolved into.

Comment #45: norbizness  on  08/19  at  03:15 PM

Democrats have female leaders like Clinton and Pelosi.  Republicans have spokesmodels for the brand.

Comment #46: Ms Kate  on  08/19  at  03:15 PM

But, norb, we just want to look at the pretty people on the internets. Is that so wrong?

Comment #47: atheist  on  08/19  at  03:17 PM

@ # 44, Atheist I totally agree.  She does, at times, look really crazy, and at others, really stupid. I guess she has an expressive face and those are her favorite expressions.

Comment #48: JennyLI  on  08/19  at  03:18 PM

Kathryn Jean Lopez is pretty in her own way, but she’s not a spokesmodel.  They might let her write stuff for the spokesmodels though - she can do that!

Comment #49: Ms Kate  on  08/19  at  03:19 PM

PS Was Rachel Maddow in there?

Another woman I’d date sight unseen for her personality… I’d just need to do something about that penis I’m wearing, in order to fit in her pool of dateables.

I have all the correct parts to date Rachel Maddow, but one thing will always come between us (ok, other than her partner of the last decade). Her love of the Red Sox. I just don’t think I can overlook that.

Comment #50: rivki  on  08/19  at  03:23 PM

I find Jon Hamm and Rachel Maddow about equally attractive, myself.  Rowr.

Comment #51: elmo  on  08/19  at  03:23 PM

I must sign off with norb and Lee: on the questions of “hot or not?”, I find it usually wise to demur.  Except, of course, that it’s absolutely true that Jon Hamm is insanely fucking hot.  However, I say this without knowing much about his political views.

Comment #52: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/19  at  03:27 PM

I have all the correct parts to date Rachel Maddow, but one thing will always come between us (ok, other than her partner of the last decade). Her love of the Red Sox.

*Googles*.

Baseball, huh? Quaint. I could live with that. My mother was able to support my dad watching golf all the time on tv, and baseball has almost as much action…

Comment #53: BlackBloc  on  08/19  at  03:34 PM

Her love of the Red Sox. I just don’t think I can overlook that.

As a lifelong Nutmegger, I’ve known several “mixed marriages” to work, and most couples who couldn’t usually don’t even get engaged.

Comment #54: ThresherK  on  08/19  at  03:41 PM

I think what this demonstrates most clearly is that Republicans think all women should be locked away from public view after about age 45, maybe earlier if they “let themselves go.”

I love that on the Democratic side you have women 60+ who are vibrant and making a difference in the world: Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Madeline Albright, Barbara Boxer. We value women’s life experiences. I mean, Michelle Obama is awesome now, but I’ll bet she’ll be even more amazing in 20 years.

Comment #55: Phoebe Fay  on  08/19  at  03:44 PM

Nutmeg = a Connectictut Teabag

Comment #56: Ms Kate  on  08/19  at  03:46 PM

Jon Hamm was at the DNC in Denver, made a skit with other actors mocking health insurance companies and I guess the libertarian viewpoint in general and briefly talked about sexism then and now in a Time article. Probably liberal, thank you huffington post.

Would it be weird if Kiefer Sutherland was a communist in real life? Can you imagine the republican dissonance if that came out?

Comment #57: pharmakos  on  08/19  at  03:57 PM

How to talk to a Wingnut…

Wingnut:  Republican women are hotter
Me: Democrats have prehensile tongues
WN: What?
Me: What?
WN: That makes no sense.
Me:  Neither did your argument, but your Republican leaders seem to appreciate our talents more than yours.  At least in airport restrooms…

Comment #58: cynickal  on  08/19  at  03:59 PM

Jon Hamm is hot. Alexander Skarsgaard is hotter. Joe Manganiello may well be part god.

Comment #59: John Joel Glanton  on  08/19  at  04:00 PM

I don’t see the “omg lib women are uggos” argument as a burn so much as a bait. The intended result is to get liberals to post up a rebuttal argument showing that nuh-uh, we’re like, totally hot, too.

The bait part is that we’re not supposed to care about that, because feminists are supposed to be liberal, and objectifying women as a means of defense, to me, is a gotcha tactic of the right to show that liberals are just as interested in objectifying women as the big mean conservatives are.

Or, at any rate, it’s some guy who gets off on a combination of beautiful faces and the indignation of others. I tend to be a little cautious when I get into these one-up contests because I don’t want some guy saying “yeah ... tell me again how I’m wrong and how totally smokin’ liberal women are” while furiously beating off.

Comment #60: Mighty Ponygirl  on  08/19  at  04:18 PM

I’m not sure if there’s a limit to the number of characters in a comment on this blog, but if I were compiling a list of hawt liberal women, I’d find out.  Rachel Maddow, of course, being at the top of that list.  Oh!  Carrie Brownstein.  I never understood what “swooning” was until I saw her.  I don’t know if it’d be inappropriate to mention, but Amanda would be on that list, too.  Let’s see… 

I can’t think of any conservative women I find attractive.  I’ve been scarred by seeing Ann Coulter’s legs too many times.  It’s a dark road I’d rather not travel down.

Comment #61: Spooky Skeptic  on  08/19  at  04:28 PM

Nutmeg = a Connectictut Teabag

Huh? No, when I say I know Red Sox fans who are married, happily, to Yankee fans, I mean it.

(PS I do wish Ann Coulter would move away from here, though.)

Comment #62: ThresherK  on  08/19  at  04:28 PM

What this makes me think of is Project Steve. It would be trivially easy to put together a list of hot liberal women and unattractive conservative women, but that would be stupid. Must better to mock the idiots who think this sort of thing means anything.

Comment #63: Stephen Stralka  on  08/19  at  04:29 PM

I don’t want some guy saying “yeah ... tell me again how I’m wrong and how totally smokin’ liberal women are” while furiously beating off.

Great, thanks Mighty Ponygirl.  Now I’m going to be imagining Ace of Spades furiously beating off for a week.  And I don’t know what he looks like so my imagination’s just filling in the gaps and ogod

Comment #64: Ferox  on  08/19  at  04:30 PM

Just Joking ThresherK!  Not many people know what a nutmegger is, and nutmeg looks rather, well, scrotal.

Comment #65: Ms Kate  on  08/19  at  04:31 PM

Don’t expect philosophical consistency from conservatives—to be a conservative nowadays, you have to have to have the attention span of a kitten on meth.  Libertarian?  Religious fanatic?  Uber-patriot?  Wall Street booster?  Racist?  Whatever fits the moment.  When they get too close together, you get things like “ugly sluts”, which don’t make sense when you think about them.  You can say that for conservative “philosophy” in general, of course.

This video sends, in no uncertain terms, the message to conservative women that if you want to have anybody pay attention to you, you have to be young and good-looking.  And while they’re presenting their good conservative arguments, conservative men are thinking about what they look like naked.

[music cue] Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable ...

Comment #66: lightning  on  08/19  at  04:32 PM

I think there is a confusion amongst the Conservatives who play these games between holding an office, being nominated for that office, and being an actual leader of the party of any sort.

Again, they have spokesmodels in Palin and Coulter et al - but not leaders.  These are not the thinkers, movers, shakers, or doers.  They are superficial exponents of the Republican Brand.

Comment #67: Ms Kate  on  08/19  at  04:33 PM

You’re absolutely right, lightning.  Let’s face it:  If Sarah Palin were ugly, no one would know her name.

Comment #68: Spooky Skeptic  on  08/19  at  04:33 PM

#63

Must better to mock the idiots who think this sort of thing means anything.

I’m all about mocking idiots.

Comment #69: atheist  on  08/19  at  04:34 PM

@69

Speaking of which, where is JohnMcKay?

Comment #70: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/19  at  04:41 PM

Ms. Kate, no problem.

Remember, if it’s not already Freudian enough, “nutmeg” also means to send a ball between another players legs.

Comment #71: ThresherK  on  08/19  at  04:44 PM

There’s also something to be said for subtlety.. Or in this case for not hitting your viewer on the face with your point like hitting him/ her with a frying pan.

Had the video stopped on the “She’s a lady” part, it would have been a nice celebration of beautiful conservative women. That the “other” women are ugly needs not to be said. It is best left to the imagination.

By adding the “who let the dogs out” part, particularly with obviously photo-shopped images - again, unnecessary since they had already picked elder women and unflattering photos - the video author revealed a lot more about his insecurity then he cared to tell. He wouldn’t leave to chance that any viewer would miss the point that Democrat women HAVE TO be ugly. Because of their ideas ? So what is the point of all this fawning on looks ?

If they like their politicians “prutty” and starburst inducing, more power to them. I prefer mine with good policies and good ideas, regardless of how they look. And some of my politicians look damn well too, regardless of his cooked up photo shop tries to say.

Comment #72: Renmiri  on  08/19  at  04:49 PM

Would it be weird if Kiefer Sutherland was a communist in real life? Can you imagine the republican dissonance if that came out?

Only slightly less shocking would be the idea that the guy who plays Jack Bauer is in reality the admiring grandson of a socialist who made universal health care a fixture in his country.

Comment #73: Gracchus.  on  08/19  at  04:54 PM

A lot of those Democratic women are a lot older than the Republican ones.  Would the authors of that video call their mothers or grandmothers “ugly?”

Comment #74: Albert Cirrus  on  08/19  at  05:00 PM

My favorite Malkintented fashion show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt_YcQlYxyY

Comment #75: Albert Cirrus  on  08/19  at  05:01 PM

Gracchus at 73: Tommy Douglas was also a devote Baptisit minister, who went into politics as a socialist to help his flock.

Comment #76: Lee  on  08/19  at  05:02 PM

“Had the video stopped on the “She’s a lady” part, it would have been a nice celebration of beautiful conservative women. That the “other” women are ugly needs not to be said. It is best left to the imagination.”

Imagination?  The only imagination the Republican proles have is the irrational fear that Bumfuckberg, MidWesternOrSouthernState is the next juicy target for bin Laden and his merry band of terrists and therefore they need to have a healthy slice of that sweet, sweet homeland security money.  That and coming up with new scenarios that explain why Obama isn’t an American, and inventing new examples of the incredible devastation immigrants cause in the US…

...oops, forgot about imagining why Gay Marriage will result in the total destruction of America and Western Civilization…

Comment #77: MikeEss  on  08/19  at  05:03 PM

Even fart jokes, when viewed from the right angle, are a dark commentary on the weaknesses and humiliations of the human body.

Are you sure that’s not just an intellectual justification for thinking farts are funny?

Comment #78: typist  on  08/19  at  05:06 PM

This makes me want to learn how to make videos just to make a male version.  But when I googled “ugly conservative men” the results were super depressing.  (Hint:  “Did you mean ugly conservative women”?)

Comment #79: Karolena  on  08/19  at  05:16 PM

But—but—but why are they including people from FoxNews, which is fair and balanced and non-partisan???????

Comment #80: B405  on  08/19  at  05:17 PM

RE: to some commenters:

Deconstructing a sexist “hotness = only value for women” Repubican video by

~discussing the relative “un-hotness” of some Republican women =

MAJOR IRONY FAIL.

Major feminist fail.

F*cking fail.  Majorly.

Comment #81: maribelle  on  08/19  at  05:18 PM

#65: Great. Now I won’t be able to break out the microplane grater without flinching.

Comment #82: Left_Wing_Fox  on  08/19  at  05:22 PM

Perhaps.  Or perhaps it was, in and of itself, supposed to be funny.  Or both.

Comment #83: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/19  at  05:27 PM

Maribelle @ #81 said exactly what I was going to say.  This thread went to an unfortunate place pretty quickly.

Comment #84: Dustin L  on  08/19  at  05:33 PM

Maybe Michelle Malkin was attractive in her day, but whenever I see her I just see that wild, crazy look in her eyes. From the first time that I ever saw her on television. Before I even knew who she was or what her opinions were.

All I saw was crazy. Bulging eyes are a huge turnoff for me. I don’t mean people with protruding eyes, I mean people who don’t know how to lower their freaking lids.

Anyway, that’s why I’ve never found her attractive. Sarah Palin, on the other hand, I’ve always thought she was gorgeous.

Comment #85: Cola82  on  08/19  at  06:06 PM

(I’m sorry Maribell can’t resist.)

I’ve got some Barbara Bush/ Nancy Reagan femslash to share with this guy…

I confess to almighty feminism, and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have sinned through my own fault (all strike their breast)
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done,
and in what I have failed to do;
and I ask the blessed text of progressive foremothers,
all the suffragettes and riot grrls,
and you, my “better than that” brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the great sky fairy

Comment #86: scrumby  on  08/19  at  06:20 PM

Women in the “Yes We Can” video from the 2008 campaign:

Scarlett Johansson, Kate Walsh, Aisha Tyler, Nicole Scherzinger, Taryn Manning, Amber Valetta, Kelly Hu.  So much gross at one time.

Comment #87: Kubricks Rube  on  08/19  at  06:32 PM

Re #6: the insistence on referring to the “Democrat party,” I guess because their focus groups say it sounds 5 percent more menacing.  It’s such an odd little tic, and it’s tiny enough that if you point it out to anyone, you’re the one who sounds like the douchebag.  I don’t really understand it either, except the robotic training you have to go through to be able to speak that way is a good indicator of tool-dom.

It’s pretty much a testament to how absurdly juvenile most prominent Republicans behave.  It’s about as childish as would be calling Democrats a bunch of no fun poopy pants.  But, much like the infantile brats who behave this way on playgrounds, the only goal they have is to get under the skin of their targets, and the safest reaction is to roll one’s eyes and look at them dismissively.  Everytime a wingnut says it on MSNBC’s Hardball, Tweety has a cow and yells at the wingnut to knock it off, which gives the wingnut the exact response he (or less frequently she) was seeking in the first place.  I don’t know when this assanine trend was started, but I’m fairly certain Limbaugh was the individual who first started doing it, and like the brainless little sheep they are, every other wingnut followed their ideological leader and started doing it too.

They aren’t going to stop doing it anytime soon, and the angrier their targets become, the more frequently they will do it.  It’s a stupid, childish game to these people, and it reflects what truly obnoxious whiny little brats they are.  Nonetheless, getting angry at them over it does nothing to get them to knock it off; quite the opposite, it motivates them to do it even more.  The best way to deal with it is to just roll one’s eyes and ignore it .

Comment #88: DTGslu2K  on  08/19  at  06:36 PM

Was that Maria Shriver in the flag bikini in the Republican part of the video, or just someone who looks a lot like her?  It’s a fail either way, she may be Republican arm candy, but she herself is not one, but if it’s just someone who looks a lot like her, but is less famously political, that’s an even worse fail.

Comment #89: Djinna  on  08/19  at  06:56 PM

Awesome video… ‘cause it’s sooo true! Ugly Democrats.

Comment #90: whiskeytangofoxtrot  on  08/19  at  07:21 PM

Malkin, for some unknown reason, had a column in my blue blue town.  It may have been her first.

After a couple, I was extremely confused as to how anyone with the smarts to operate a keyboard could hold her views.  And she went on to…. what she is now.

Comment #91: Eric_RoM  on  08/19  at  07:31 PM

Was that Maria Shriver in the flag bikini ... she may be Republican arm candy, but she herself is not one

Pfffftttt. We all know it’s only who a woman belongs to that counts. Walking uteri/tits can’t have their own political beliefs.

Comment #92: kristin  on  08/19  at  08:23 PM

#87

Ooh, Aisha Tyler also gets major points for her funny. And, as heard in Archer, she doesn’t even need to be seen to be beguiling.

Comment #93: ThresherK  on  08/19  at  08:36 PM

Noone’s mentioned Elizabeth Kucinich yet?

Comment #94: Daniel-138  on  08/19  at  09:02 PM

Hey Chris [you fucking misogynist jerk-off], stop posting.

Comment #95: Daniel-138  on  08/19  at  09:45 PM

Really burning a motherfucker is a time-honored way of getting your lulz.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to burn a motherfucker?

Comment #96: Brooke Lester  on  08/19  at  09:57 PM

I mean, the visual of Newt Gingrich making it with Virginia Fox, hasn’t that spawned a thousand sexual fantasies?

God, I love the internet - I was easily able to call up some images of tentacle porn in order to wipe this disturbing image out of my mind…

Comment #97: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/19  at  10:31 PM

Kristin, I’m sure you’re right, even though Ms. Shriver’s dissent from her husband’s political party is more well known than Laura Bush’s.  Mary Matalin gets to have her own views respected since she’s the conservative one of the pair.  Other way around?  Not so much.

Comment #98: Djinna  on  08/19  at  10:47 PM

shop mannikins are teh sexx.

Comment #99: scratchy888  on  08/19  at  10:51 PM

Jon Hamm is hot. Alexander Skarsgaard is hotter. Joe Manganiello may well be part god.

I thought John Barrowman was top of the list these days.

Comment #100: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/19  at  10:53 PM

Plus, the conservative women like babies.

Which is great, ‘cos conservative men seem to have a thing for adolescents…

Comment #101: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/19  at  10:54 PM

Wait…Ann Coulter is church going?

Comment #102: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  08/19  at  11:02 PM

oh whiskey!

you know you were trying to get my number at the bar last night!

loves and snuggles,
kitten

Comment #103: kitten parade  on  08/19  at  11:20 PM

The divide is not based on looks, but on who is church going and who is not.

Yep, that’s why the two song choices for the video were Jesus Loves Me and Born Secular.  I guess all of us women (and feminist men) were just too angry to hear the correct lyrics and understand that, as always for Conservatives, it is all about God.

Comment #104: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/19  at  11:25 PM

Hold on Cris, right now I’m writhing in my feminist anger and misery (you have quite the self-confidence to feel the need to troll fem. blogs). Still going. Still going. Finally. Look in the last thread you posted in and tell me that your posts weren’t misogynist.

Comment #105: Daniel-138  on  08/19  at  11:36 PM

No I wasn’t.

Comment #106: whiskeytangofoxtrot  on  08/20  at  03:11 AM

#81: YES. Totally fauxgressive, the path this thread took. It made me really uncomfortable, and even more so the link to the Malkin picture that makes her look like the Hollywood yellowfaced asian stereotype. But the rest of the hot or not contest isn’t much better.

Comment #107: colorlessblue  on  08/20  at  07:57 AM

Watching a video of beauty queens and good-looking politicians and feeling more manly because they vote like you is even more pathetic than thinking you’re a badass warrior because you really enjoyed that Tom Clancy novel.

Actually, it’s worse.  It’s like the guy who gives the stripper money, and thinks she means it when she smiles.

Suckers.

Comment #108: Mike the Mad Biologist  on  08/20  at  08:25 AM

And as somebody mentioned earlier, Hollywood celebrities like Angelina Jolie are well known for almost all being flaky liberals.

Which is ironic considering what a raving lunatic teabagger her father, actor Jon Voight, has become.  I say “has become” because apparently he was once a liberal George McGovern supporter, a personal friend of Jane Fonda, and an outspoken opponent of the Vietnam War in the early 1970s, after he had already established himself as a critically acclaimed actor.  Two years ago he wrote an op-ed for the Washington Times claiming that he regretted his anti-war stance in his youth, and felt that he had been “tricked by Marxist propaganda”.  And he’s not just some Schwarzeneggeresque fiscal conservative, social moderate type Republican, he’s a full-blown raving wingnut.  Last summer, he spoke at some teabagger fundraiser and he said that America needs to “bring an end to this false prophet Obama”.  Can’t get much more wingnut than that.

I have no idea what his present relationship is with his daughter or son-in-law, but I know that at one point, he and Jolie had been estranged from each other for quite some time.

Comment #109: DTGslu2K  on  08/20  at  09:12 AM

Whiskeytango, you manipulative bitch! Kitten? Really?

You used me! (sob)

I came out in the bar for you!

Comment #110: paleotectonics  on  08/20  at  09:22 AM

Wait… Ann Coulter is church-going?

Or does she figure, like S.E. Cupp, that religion’s a net positive for the masses, but she’s somehow exempt from the prescription? *coughelitismcough*

Also, Ann Coulter likes babies? Babies like Ann Coulter? This is news.

Comment #111: Selena777  on  08/20  at  12:00 PM

@Selena777

Well, babies are generally pretty stupid.  I could see how that would explain the mutual attraction.

Comment #112: Atheist, A Feminist  on  08/20  at  12:09 PM

I thought Angelina Jolie was a raving Randroid?

Comment #113: BrianX  on  08/20  at  01:49 PM

@116: Is she? I know she’s supposedly partly responsible for whichever Ayn Rand novel they decided to inflict on the movie-going public, but it doesn’t necessarily follow she’s an Objectivist herself.

Comment #114: BlackBloc  on  08/20  at  05:30 PM

Well, babies are generally pretty stupid.  I could see how that would explain the mutual attraction.

- reflexive repetition of incoherent babble
- piercing screeches when they want something they can’t get
- belief that they are the center of the universe and other people exist to fulfil their needs
- irrational fear of strange situations
- pants-soiling
- drooling

Yep, I can see where they would find a lot of common ground with babies.

Comment #115: kristin  on  08/20  at  07:08 PM

Glad I’m not the only one who noticed the irony fail of talking up “their” “ugly” women and talking up “our” “beautiful” women.

Amanda: re: trying to be funny, or failing, or both—I read that comment last night, and thought about it.  I was going to log on today to agree with your more generous interpretation.

And then I read some of the additional comments.  *sigh*

Too bad your some of your commenters aren’t like you.

Comment #116: maribelle  on  08/20  at  07:13 PM

the insistence on referring to the “Democrat party,” I guess because their focus groups say it sounds 5 percent more menacing.  It’s such an odd little tic, and it’s tiny enough that if you point it out to anyone, you’re the one who sounds like the douchebag.
Comment 8—myfavoriteboxer

I assume the ostensible point is that democracy is good, so calling the opposition “the Deocratic Party” is tantamount to admitting they’re good, and by implication you’re bad. But it halps that it is, as you said, tiny enough that anyone complaining about it comes off badly.

Remember, if it’s not already Freudian enough, “nutmeg” also means to send a ball between another player’s legs.
Comment 71—ThresherK

Bill Buckner is from Connecticut?

Comment #117: Hershele Ostropoler  on  08/22  at  03:16 PM

I’m going to just ignore most of the upthread here…

1) The more specific and individual the better.

Ah, so that guy who constantly refers to you as “Amynda” is a cut above the rest, because he’s making a joke about anti-sexist language and the odd spellings that sometimes come with it, which are specific to feminism… but he still sucks, because I don’t recall you ever saying “womyn” or “herstory” or any similar construction. It’s more specific than “you’re a girl!”, but it’s specific in the wrong way.

Comment #118: grendelkhan  on  08/25  at  10:42 AM
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