...when you meet someone with a thick southern accent who likes NASCAR and attends a bible church, do you think, “hey, maybe this is a cool person”? And when you encounter someone who went to Eastern Iowa State, do you accord them the same respect you give your friends from Williams? It’s okay—there’s no one here but us chickens. You don’t.

The lady doth project too much, as evidenced by her gratuitous use of the second-person pronoun in this transparent attempt to salve her own elitist conscience.

“—How to talk to a Libertarian—”
Step 1:  Instead of “ass” say “buns”, like “kiss my buns” or “you’re a bunshole”.
Step 2:  Instead of “shit” say “poo”, like “screw this poo” or “this poo is cold”
Step 3:  With “bitch” drop the “t”, cause bich is latin for generocity.
Step 4:  Don’t say “fuck” anymore, cause “fuck” is the worst word that you can say.

You don’t have to live your life addicted to smack.  Growing up on the street giving handjobs for crack.  Just follow these rules and very soon you will say… it’s easy, M’kay.

As a coastal elite who attended a state school in Iowa, I confess that I would indeed not accord someone who attended Eastern Iowa State any respect… because there’s no such place.

Growing up poor in the inner cities of NJ, I got a great financial aid deal at Oberlin; including work study. I had to transfer to Rutgers for a semester. While at Rutgers, I earned A grades; yet, at Oberlin I was a b-b+ student. Rutgers was easier, but I also learned that the top students there were pretty much equal to the top ones at Oberlin. What I really learned is that you can get a good education anywhere if you are motivated to do so. It really comes down to how motivated the person is. That is something I have always preached to the kids I have worked with for the last 25 years. It is not the school- it is the person.

Yes, you are more likely to meet brighter kids at a place like Oberlin or Amherst because many of those kids come from backgrounds where the school system is much, much better than say the ones in inner city NJ. And money is the key. The more well-off have access to a better educational system.

The fault I have with MM’s essay is that it really isn’t a coastal/rural thing; it is an economic divide. Only a few people can break it. When I got to Oberlin, I never knew there were so many rich people. I was blown away. I will say, to Oberlin’s credit, that the people I met there and the alumni I have met do not seem to engage in the elite school vs. state school crap.

What a brilliant conflation! Can we hear now about how all libertarians are racist, too?

“How to talk to a libertarian”:
1. “Shove off, asshole.”
2. There is no Step 2.

Megan went to an elite college, as I did. Megan then moved to DC, as I have. The difference between Megan and me is that I haven’t ended up placing myself in very limited social circles in which I’m only surrounded by people who also went to elite colleges. Really, by the time you are a few years out of school, what college you went to should only be a tangential point of conversation, particularly since, at that point, you post-college accomplishments and personal attributes are what are going to mark you as an interesting, stimulating person. The idea that any of us mature adults would start to think worse of someone if they dropped that they went to a lesser-known state school is ridiculous.

On the other hand, if you told me you worked for the Heritage Foundation, then, well, yeah, I’d probably mutter something about needing another drink and stalk off.

it really isn’t a coastal/rural thing; it is an economic divide.

To a certain degree, I don’t think this is true: it’s not an economic divide as much as a class divide. I know plenty of people from very modest backgrounds that I count among my friends, while my family was somewhat affluent. I will admit, though, that most of my friends are seeped in the culture of white-collar professionals and academia… but that tends to be the standard by which people are judged: not whether they went to a small or large university, but whether they reflect a similar intellectual/professional value system.

...when you meet someone with a thick southern accent who likes NASCAR and attends a bible church, do you think, “hey, maybe this is a cool person”? And when you encounter someone who went to Eastern Iowa State, do you accord them the same respect you give your friends from Williams? It’s okay—there’s no one here but us chickens. You don’t.

Considering I’m an atheist who specifically rejected Christianity, and considering I couldn’t stand NASCAR assholes and their ilk when I was growing up and spending my early adulthood in the red zones, no Megan, I probably wouldn’t think someone who likes NASCAR and goes to a bible church is “cool”. I’ll probably think they’re into nonsense and bullshit. I’d feel the same way whether they have a New York accent, a Texas accent or just got onto the train with me to Pasadena. Stupid doesn’t suddenly become smart just because the person being stupid comes from the biggest WATB part of the country and will literally throw a tantrum if you don’t kiss their ass and tell them how unique and special and authentically American they are, UNLIKE those evil, decadent liberals in hippy dippy California.

Meanwhile, reading Megan’s bio, she sounds like a truly terrible person. But then, Libertarianism is nothing more than making people feel okay for having zero empathy, and giving the false impression that inherited privilege was hard earned.

Yes, you are more likely to meet brighter kids at a place like Oberlin or Amherst because many of those kids come from backgrounds where the school system is much, much better

I spent time at both a small liberal arts college (Emerson) and a large public university (Hunter/CUNY), and I found the reverse to be true, actually.  A lot of the kids I knew at Emerson were dumb as bricks because they came from money and there was always someone there to coddle them or get them special treatment.  And the overall admissions standards of the school weren’t necessarily that good—it was more about whether you could pay. Conversely, kids from all over the intelligence and financial spectrum attended Hunter, and most of the smarter ones didn’t come from money which meant they were genuinely smarter, not just “mama’s precious little genius”.

I also found that almost everyone I thought was intelligent at Emerson was there on intense levels of financial aid.

Tom

I was with you there until you got to “money.”  NJ has been pouring money into inner city schools for years because of NJ Sup Ct mandates.  No matter where you live in NJ, you pay for Newark, Camden and Paterson.  And the schools still stink.  Money is not always the answer, and isn’t when it comes to education.

when you meet someone with a thick southern accent who likes NASCAR and attends a bible church, do you think, “hey, maybe this is a cool person”? And when you encounter someone who went to Eastern Iowa State, do you accord them the same respect you give your friends from Williams?

Adding to what others have said, Iit also occurs to me that these are two very different questions. 

I’m not religious or interested in NASCAR, and thus if I met someone who immediately gave the first impression of being a NASCAR-obsessed Evangelical Christian, I would probably not jump to be their best friend.  We wouldn’t have very much in common.  It’s not a judgment thing but a difference in interests and subcultures.

On the other hand, the college question isn’t about personal interest and hobbies, it’s about class.  It’s fine to choose your friends because you share similar interests and are on the same wavelength socially.  It’s shitty to choose your friends because you only like people who went to Ivy League colleges.

“when you meet someone with a thick southern accent who likes NASCAR and attends a bible church, do you think, “hey, maybe this is a cool person”

Yes, they kick my ass at poker all the time.

There is so much wrong with that chick’s little article I hardly even know where to start.

If McMegan had half a clue about academia she’d know that all of those Big State Schools she sneers at (yes, including those in the South and Midwest) are actually where most of the elite research in this country occurs (those who would be “smart” by her bullshit reasoning).

A quick perusal of the Carnegie Foundation’s Research I Classification (the most “elite”) includes Harvard, Yale, etc. but also Case Western Reserve University, Kansas University, Iowa State, Michigan State, Louisiana State, Montana State, Texas A&M;, University of Alabama, U of GA, U of Utah, etc.

Carnegie Foundation RU/VH Universities (Research I)

State schools all the way… woooo.

Though one of those state schools began as an all -women’s school, so that could be, like, a southern low rent version of Wesley or Bryn Mwr or however you spell that place.

Well, Gozer, I don’t find Eastern Iowa State anywhere on that list, so I believe Ms. McArdle’s original point stands.

Libertarian:

I went to school in NJ in the 60’s and 70’s where no such money existed. I agree, NJ has changed but at the time I was in school, money played a big part. Tyro: In my mind, economics is class; so I agree with you.

I don’t know about Emerson, but Oberlin was not like that at all. My experience was that the brightest at both schools were pretty equal, but the spread was huge. The least capable at Oberlin would have been in the upper middle at Rutgers.

But I will repeat- you can get a good education anywhere if YOU make the effort.

Slight mistake on my part…Case Western Reserve is a private university.

But what do I know…I only went to Kansas and Wisconsin.

I have to say that everyone I’ve ever met who o went to Oberlin has been pretty exceptional, so it might just be a particularly awesome liberal arts school.  Emerson is, in terms of academics, not the most prestigious liberal arts school in the country.

Overall, though, the impression college gave me was that there’s not a hell of a lot of difference betweena middle-of-the-road private liberal arts college and a pretty good public university, in terms of academics and intellect of the students. 

If someone actually cares that they went to Dartmouth and you went to Texas A&M;, their problem is class,not intellectual pretension.

Not to call Dartmouth ‘middle of the road’ or A&M;merely “pretty good”—my point is that those two schools are vaguely comparable outside of the public/private divide.

You could sub in Hampshire/U Mass, Bard/LSU, etc etc etc .

Why needless antagonize pontential allies? Mcardle has stated she plans to vote for Obama. Libertarians don’t like the War in Iraq, and have at the very least a more moderate stance on social issues.

Why needless antagonize pontential allies? Mcardle has stated she plans to vote for Obama.

Because, FSM willing, there will still be a *nation* here after Nov. 5. And because ass-kissing people who disgust you in order to grab a few votes is the province of Republicans.

Why needless antagonize pontential allies? Mcardle has stated she plans to vote for Obama. Libertarians don’t like the War in Iraq, and have at the very least a more moderate stance on social issues.

McArdle doesn’t represent a demographic, unless “clueless snobs” is a demographic.

Money is not always the answer, and isn’t when it comes to education.

Money by itself is not always the solution; it’s the way that it is applied.  However, without money, they cannot afford to get any of the resources that would improve the schools.  I think our schools suck because of a combination of underfunding in certain areas and just general shit ideas on what constitutes a good education - which means that the money that is spent is spent very poorly.

I second the notion that Megan McArdle has no damned right to look down her nose at state schools. My state had, for years, given tuition waivers—a full ride—to anyone who graduated in-state near the top of their class and did well on standardized tests. (A variety of partial scholarships were awarded with less strict requirements.) The program has been discontinued, and I have a shiny nickel for anyone who can find an official willing to admit that they ever did it. It may be a mark of privilege and wealth to attend there now, but there was a time not so long ago when it was a solidly middle-class institution. And despite that, they have some of the best engineering and science programs in the country.

On the other hand, having visited Oberlin while an undergrad, it seemed like the school’s primary export was a thick cloud of suffocating smugness, but perhaps I’m extrapolating too much from the time an Obie visited my poor li’l state school and commented on how inferior the food, the facilities, and the people all were.

On the gripping hand, I agree with tom completely; I strongly believe that past a certain reasonable level of competence among the faculty, the quality of education is up to the student. You can coast through expensive private school doing the least you can get away with, or you can squeeze every drop of know-how you can from cheap public school. The primary determining factor in the actual quality of education is you. (The primary determining factor in how well you can impress jerks like McArdle by name-dropping your alma mater is another matter entirely.)

Outside the group of people I went to college with and still keep in touch with, and a few people I’ve become close enough to to discuss college experiences, I have no fucking clue where the people I know went to college. But I do care if they espouse stupid shibboleths.

I can only imagine that the people McArdle is writing for are permanently 23.

I have one degree from an elite private university and one from a massive state school. And you know what? I met exactly the same kinds of people at both schools. I knew some morons at Vanderbilt and some brilliant people at Texas.

Also, I just don’t judge people based on what college they went to, nor do I know anyone else who does. That’s what self-absorbed, juvenile, trapped-in-the-past shitwits like McArdle do.

And what someone else said upthread. In this country, the majority of our research work is done at public universities. I don’t have a problem making fun of Texas A&M;for sucking at football, but they’re one of the most respected medical and scientific research institutions in the country.

Megan’s is projecting quite a bit to create the image of a “common woman”....kinda like how a certain esteemed president of this blog has used the “common man” image to garner support…...

False populist marketing for the GOP…...

I have to say that everyone I’ve ever met who o went to Oberlin has been pretty exceptional, so it might just be a particularly awesome liberal arts school.  Emerson is, in terms of academics, not the most prestigious liberal arts school in the country.

From what I’ve heard from friends who grew up in the Boston area, Emerson was a great school for artsy/creative students….but also a haven for well-off/trust fund kids who failed to get into “better” private schools like BU, BC, etc. 

Going by my friend’s word along with my own knowledge of CUNY/Hunter…..Hunter has a much more serious overall academic reputation. 

On the other hand, having visited Oberlin while an undergrad, it seemed like the school’s primary export was a thick cloud of suffocating smugness, but perhaps I’m extrapolating too much from the time an Obie visited my poor li’l state school and commented on how inferior the food, the facilities, and the people all were.

Not all of us Obies are like that….though there are plenty of such smugness among the student body.  Though the smugness was rarely as blatant as what you described…..it was present and insidious…especially to those of us who were working-class scholarship students from urban public schools.  One example of that smugness was the patronizing assumptions many private high school graduates made about graduates from public schools…especially those from cities like NYC.  Fortunately, those assumptions were blown out of the water when those of us from urban public schools not only demonstrated our academic capabilities in our classes, but also when many of the “superior” private school graduates ended up in remedial math and writing classes and/or became my academic tutoring clients because they weren’t prepared and/or did slipshod work their Profs wouldn’t accept. 

Despite the smug BS I’ve had to deal with from most classmates, there are also quite a few friendly serious deep thinking people there whose social consciousness and willingness to go all out to serve society as inner city public school teachers, social activists, academics, etc is such that I feel they are an inspiring proof that there’s still some goodness left in humanity. 

The least capable at Oberlin would have been in the upper middle at Rutgers.

I can believe that. 

I knew an older undergrad classmate who was a slacking C+/B- level student who managed straight As at an Ivy graduate program in Poli-sci/intl relations.

In light of his undergrad self, it was interesting to see him express annoyance at grad classmates complaining of the 300 pages of reading per week per class reading load when that was something we had to deal with in our introductory and mid-level courses.