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Next entry: How to get your freak on without the TSA Previous entry: MRA logic, distilled

HuffPo once again running irresponsible quackery

Before I get into this, I want to say that I'm the first to say, from a reality-based perspective, that Americans are, in a sense, "over-medicalized". I'm no shill for doctors, and in my ideal world, we would all spend less time at the damn doctor. But the reason that we are in doctor's offices more than we should be is a complex one---if fact, it's multiple reasons. And most of them are things the medical establishment is trying to fix. A lot of the reason doctors order too many tests and prescribe too many drugs is that if they didn't do so, their patients would flip the fuck out on them---because Americans have never once really gotten behind the idea that less can sometimes be more---and since it's in a doctor's best financial interests often to do more, they aren't going to fight you as hard as they probably should. Another reason that is completely unrelated that we spend more on doctors than we ideally should is that we, as a nation, don't invest nearly enough in prevention. We let young people go uninsured, making it years and even decades that people go without just basic check-ups, so that when they do finally start seeing a doctor, illnesses that could have been caught early have festered. We eat too much and exercise too little, and then we end up spending way more on diabetes management and cholesterol drugs than we should. We underfund contraception spending and shame women for being slutty if they use contraception, resulting in high unintended pregnancy rates that lead to even more preventable health problems. 

So yes, we are over-medicalized in a sense, but it's a complex problem and Americans are simple-minded idiots. Thus, people have this vague sense that we are all at the doctor too much, and they react not by learning the ins and outs of this complex problem, but instead by embracing a knee-jerk assumption that medical science is BAD and "natural"---whatever the fuck that means---is GOOD, and that doctors are out to get you and that everything produced by Big Pharma is BAD and "chemical" and therefore toxic. And they convince themselves the problem isn't a combination of hard-to-extract social forces plus bad managment of our collective medical dollar, but instead that medical science is some Frankenstein-y evil scientist shit and that the cure for our problems lies in shopping at Whole Foods. This attitude gives birth to anti-vaccination idiots and homeopathic nonsense and GOOD magazine tricking themselves into believing that something is bad if you call it "salycic acid", but A-OK if you call it "extract of willow". (Seriously, it's time to revive the dihydrogen monoxide hoax.) And no one is more guilty than Huffington Post of promoting knee-jerk hostility to medical science in lieu of promoting actual knowledge. 

Case in point: they've run an article by a quack named Dr. Robert Kornfeld, who is.....wait for it....a "holistic" podiatrist. Who has this art on his office's homepage:

 Run away while your feet are still healthy!

In all seriousness, the Huffington Post should issue a formal apology for running this article titled "6 Medical Myths Even Your Doctor May Still Believe", since it's a sea of strawmen, shilling for just-as-corporate "alternative" medicine, and straight dangerous misinformation. Let's take it one at a time. 

Myth #1- Technology has improved healthcare

But....but....statistics!

But Dr. Kornfeld poops your stupid, irrefutable numbers. 

Statistically, since the age of technology, there has been an onslaught of increasing pathology. The amount of illness and morbidity in our society is dramatically rising. There are now more cases of cancer, heart disease, arthritis, auto-immune illnesses, endocrine disorders, developmental disorders, allergies, respiratory problems, infectious diseases, neurological problems, musculo-skeletal pathology, gastro-intestinal disorders, psychological illness, etc., than ever before.

Plus, there's so many more old people around, and they need to go to the doctor so much. Clearly, letting people get older hasn't done shit for our national health. 

In all honesty, what's particularly perverse about this is one reason U.S. life expectancy has gone up so much in the past century or so is that we've developed so many technologies that keep small children alive that would have otherwise died, with vaccines being a big one, as well as some of the simple technologies that keep troubled infants alive that would have died before we had things like, oh, respirators. 

But the biggest problem with his argument is that it's a red herring. Yes, it's true that certain illnesses are on the rise in our culture (but other fatal illnesses, such as polio, have been wiped out), but that literally has nothing to do with technology. His argument is like saying, "Cars were promised to get us places faster, but I still can't run better than an 8 minute mile." The two things are unrelated! Unless you think there's a sea of doctors out there telling patients to stuff their maw with tons of crap while never getting their heart rate above resting because, fuck it, they can get Lipitor, then this argument makes no sense at all. 

Myth #2 - Inflammation is bad

One thing about quacks is that all have one completely bizarro obsession, and this guy's argument that you should let swollen things be swollen and painful is his. I've argued before that I see connections between thinking of anti-choicers and the "natural" fetishists, even though they often fall on opposite sides of the political divide (though not only---look up the concept of a "crunchy conservative"), and this belief that suffering is inherently good for you---well, not you, but other people you would foist it on---is one of those links. I feel bad for this guy's patients, because I'm guessing if you have foot problems, the occasional use of an anti-inflammatory, even just aspirin, is probably just what you need.

Myth #3 - Genetically coded diseases are unavoidable...

Let's take a closer look at this issue. If having a gene for any illness condemns you to having that disease, then why are you not born with the disease you are coded to have? Why isn't every person who carries a gene for disease suffering at all times from that disease? The answer is that all genes do not express themselves at all times and many never do. There must be a reason why the body would call upon a gene to express itself. Otherwise, none of us would be able to survive the onslaught of genetic expression. So what is it that causes a gene to express itself? If you consider for a moment that diseases are just a complex of symptoms being incorporated by the body in an attempt to protect itself from tissue destruction and/or imminent death, you may begin to get a clearer understanding of what I am trying to say. Once we begin to pay attention to the reasons that a gene might express itself, we may be able to prevent that gene from releasing its code for illness.

He then goes into a lot of blather about "free radicals" and basically implies that eating right is all you need to do to prevent genetic illnesses from developing. This section may have bothered me the most, because it takes a grain of truth---that genes interact with the environment and can express themselves in different ways---and runs off into la-la land with it. Unfortunately, it's a la-la land where he's discouraging people from working with their doctor to learn about genetic diseases in their families and what can be done to prevent or minimize them in the real world. It's a complete and utter lie that doctors think that having a gene for something condemns you to the worst possible version of that disease, and that they won't do anything to help you prevent that from happening. For instance, I have a friend whose family has a genetic tendency towards high cholesterol, and her doctor---gasp!---put her on a diet and exercise program in order to lower her cholesterol and avoid having to control it with drugs that can sometimes be not so good for your body. He certainly didn't drag her into his office and say, "Well, let's talk about how you're inevitably going to have a heart attack before you're 35." This is a despicable misreading of how doctors use genetic information to deal with patients. Plus, Kornfeld basically claims that any genetic illness that you develop is your fault because you didn't mind your free radicals, which is an outrageous guilt-tripping of people who do get sick no matter what they do. He's basically pandering to the weird notion that we will never die and that we're in complete control at all times of our bodies, and that's simply not true.  You can do things to improve your health, sure, but you know, the clock is ticking for all of us.

Myth #4 - Medications improve health

We are, in this country, the most heavily medicated society on the planet. People are taking medications to control the symptoms of countless diseases. These medications are either prescribed by their physicians or purchased over the counter by the patient. I have seen, in my practice, thousands of elderly patients taking upward of 10 prescription medications as well as a few over-the-counter ones. If you ask the average senior how they are feeling, most will say that they feel awful in spite of their medications. How could this be? If the medications are supposedly "keeping them healthy," how come they feel so bad? There are a number of reasons for this.

Seriously, I'm beginning to wonder if this sort of thing is opening HuffPo up for a lawsuit. Look, this is about the stupidest thing I've ever read. For instance, say someone has a minor stomach upset from the birth control pill on occasion. Are they feeling less than perfect? Sure. Are they feeling better than they would be if facing an unintended pregnancy? Absolutely. (Talk about stomach distress.) He's basically trying to imply that doctors don't believe in side effects, when the contrary is true. In fact, the point of a doctor is that they're supposed to balance your competing needs to determine what treatments to give you. So yes, some drugs make you feel not so great, but the point is that if you didn't take them, you'd feel even worse. Or you wouldn't be feeling at all, due to the "dead" thing. Take Lipitor, which is a drug I return to because it's one of those that I think provokes this kind of anxiety. The medical establishment is trying to prevent people from going on Lipitor. That's why they test your blood even if you're healthy, weigh you, and otherwise promote diet and exercise. They know Lipitor has bad side effects, but the problem is that high cholesterol has worse side effects. 

Myth #5 - Childhood immunizations protect us from serious disease

I don't even know what to say. He minimizes childhood illnesses from the past, suggesting that it's no big deal to get, say, whooping cough or diptheria (which currently kills about 10% of people who get it), but then makes the usual unfounded claims that vaccines are bad for kids. I don't even want to go over this, except to refer you to this actual science-based myth-debunking about vaccines. The one thing I'll add is to ask you to look at that life expectancy chart and remember that one reason life expectancy went up so dramatically is that we were able, through medical technology, to dramatically reduce the number of infant and small children deaths, and that one of the most important technologies was vaccines. If you still don't believe this, go visit a 19th century graveyard and consider how many graves are there for children.

Myth # 6 - The double blind - placebo controlled study guarantees safety and efficacy in drug therapy

It's no surprise that quacks all over dislike double blind studies, because double blind studies tend to show that "alternative" therapies don't work at all. Which isn't to say that there aren't legitimate criticisms of the FDA standards for testing efficacy and safety. But most of those criticisms aren't coming from people who think you should stop going to real doctors and give your money to quacks instead. For a more measured, pro-science approach to this question, I recommend watching Ben Goldacre's TED Talk.

I'll repeat; on a certain level, I get it. Our health care system is in crisis. Some people are over-medicated, and some people can't get care at all. Doctors are often over-worked and not up on the latest science. We spend too much treating illnesses that could have been prevented. A lot of drugs given to people aren't the best treatment  possible, and Big Pharma actually takes pains to conceal that fact because it hurts their bottom line. All these things are true. But the solution isn't to embrace some black-and-white anti-medical science point of view, and lash out at medical science for having the nerve to exist. Medical science isn't evil, it's just in crisis. It doesn't need to be abandoned so much as improved. And if you stop wasting so much time engaging with quacks and Big Alternative Medicine (much of which is owned by Big Pharma) and pay attention to the real debates going on about how to improve medicine, you'll find it's all very fascinating and perhaps not as hard to understand as you feared. 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 08:46 AM • (129) Comments

HuffPo can kiss my all natural ass.

Comment #1: Roivas  on  10/24  at  10:23 AM

Healthcare, especially with kids, seems to be where the over treatment crowd meets the over parenting crowd and you get articles like the one you are referring too.  There isn’t a winner in these discussions for exactly the reason that everyone expects it to be black and white, and it is a bit grey.  You can’t medicate away every problem, but in most cases medicine has made our lives much better.  If you are completely on either side of the fence, that is, thinking medicine can fix everything in your life, or the other side assuming it can’t help at all, you can wind up pretty unhealthy.

A great book on this subject is over treated by Shannon brownlee, and even the new York times has recently had some good articles on how people use and abuse healthcare

Comment #2: Benny  on  10/24  at  10:31 AM

I don’t think America suffers from over treatment.  Too many people don’t go to the doctor at all.  Yes, well-insured people probably are over tested to protect doctors from lawsuits, but the average American doesn’t go for medical treatment until things are really bad.

There’s a Halls cough drop commercial that’s all about working through a cold and not wimping out and taking a sick day that’s a perfect illustration of this shit.  Due to shitty healthcare and benefits, people go to work sick and make others sick, and we’ve managed to twist it around to be a macho American thing to go to work ill.

We really need a healthier approach to healthcare.  Unfortunately, not enough of us believe it’s a right.

As for Myth #2?  That’s so old school Catholic.  The meek shall inherit the Earth, the least will be first—so suffer and be last so you can be rewarded later!

Comment #3: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  10/24  at  10:50 AM

Senesence is up in all countries as they develop advanced medical techniques.  THERE’S BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS DOCTORS.

Sorry, it was the best I could do.  I appreciate any and all critiques of this kind of pseudo-hippie nonsense.  Is Arianna H. a bigtime altmed believer? Or do they just pay her bills?

Comment #4: Inspector Spacetime  on  10/24  at  10:57 AM

Caren, I feel you’re succumbing to either/or thinking. That Person X can’t see a doctor doesn’t mean Person Y isn’t being over prescribed antibiotics.

Nuance, please!

Comment #5: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/24  at  11:11 AM

Myth #4, holy shit! Yeah, my 91 year old grandmother probably takes that many or more medications, and she’s not feeling really great. But, without the medications she takes, she probably would have died years, if not a couple of decades ago. Let’s ask her if she would rather have felt great and croaked at 70, or maybe not so great but still be living at 91.

I agree that many people are over-medicated, that there are some instances where the side effect of a drug may not outweigh the benefit. For instance, my husband complained to our (lousy) family doctor about a toe nail fungus and was prescribed without question an oral medication for it. And then causally, “Oh, yeah. You’ll need to come in for blood tests periodically while in the meds.” Why? A friend who is a nurse tells us the drug can fuck up a person’s kidneys. So that was bad medicine, IMO. The doc should have at least told him what the possible side effects were so he could decide if a funky toe nail was worth the risk. (No, it wasn’t, and an over the counter treatment that’s not taken orally has been helping)

Comment #6: Livi  on  10/24  at  11:13 AM

Geez, I was only yesterday having an argument with a friend about scary ‘chemicals’ in meds. He was in the midst of a bad allergy day, sneezing to the point of nearly driving off the road, and I offered him an otc, non-drowsy symptom abatement pill. He refused, outraged. All they do is cover up the symptoms! he cried. Yes, that’s the freaking point, I countered. What’s the good in that? he demanded. You’ll feel better, at least until you get better, I suggested.  No, I don’t take chemicals! he asserted. Yes, you do, you maroon! I averred. And this dude is a not some anti-science choad. But he certainly was raised in a household that prized suffering for its own sake. So what can you do but throw up your hands?

Comment #7: benvolio  on  10/24  at  11:29 AM

This crap is too outrageous for me to know what to say about the particulars, so I’ll just state that the website drawing is some seriously poor medical illustration (but then again, professional illustrators are trained in western medicine).  Also, how do you combine two professions so many people don’t take seriously, podiatry and holistic “medicine”?  I guess shoot the moon.

Comment #8: ganews_  on  10/24  at  11:44 AM

Hmmm.

I’ve been having some pain in my shoulder for a while, and about ten days ago, it reached the point where I finally decided to go to the doctor.  (The decision point was the inability to raise my right arm above my shoulder without searing pain.)  Well, it looks like a torn rotator cuff—I wonder what “holistic cure” they’d recommend?

(I’m getting an MRI and may end up needing surgery to stitch it together.  Looks like I’ll never make it to pitch in Fenway now.)

Comment #9: James  on  10/24  at  11:45 AM

Comment #7: benvolio, and unfortunately my husband tends toward the “medicine will fix everything” so when he has allergies or a long-running cold, he gets made that the OTC meds haven’t gotten rid of the bug he has.

Comment #10: Livi  on  10/24  at  11:46 AM

Of all the woo beliefs that exist, opposition to medical science bothers me more than almost anything, with the sole exception of fundamentalist religious nonsense, because it has a measurable positive impact on people’s lives.  Everything from my asthma and allergy medication to my grandmothers’ chemotherapy treatments has improved and prolonged people’s lives.  If alt-med worked we should’ve been living in a disease-free paradise by about the 6th century.  I certainly agree that there are people who are taking medication for conditions (e.g. high cholesterol) that could be controlled with diet or exercise, but for each person like that there are probable 1 or 2 people who have conditions that would make their lives unbearable or would have killed them without medication.  And other people get an unfortunate confluence of disease or disabilities that mean that a condition that would be treatable in most people without medication now requires it (one of my friends who was paralyzed from the waist down developed diabetes, which he may not have if he was able to be more active).  While I certainly agree that noone should be prescribed medicine with potentially harmful side effects willy nilly, I’m just not sure how much of a problem this actually is.  As a rather healthy person with only a prescription for (very) mild athsma (I only take it before I exercise) I don’t have much experience with over-medication.

Comment #11: progrocker  on  10/24  at  11:49 AM

“Yes, it’s true that certain illnesses are on the rise in our culture (but other fatal illnesses, such as polio, have been wiped out), but that literally has nothing to do with technology.”

Really? Nothing to do with technology? The tremendous rise in types and incidences of Cancer, to use an obvious example, have nothing to do with technology?

“...this belief that suffering is inherently good for you…”

That is a gross distortion and oversimplification of his point. If you don’t see the remarkably insidious, wide-spread tendency of American doctors to push symptom relievers onto patients, often without serious efforts to diagnose and resolve the underlying problems, then I’m afraid you are not paying attention.

Related to that is this, found in your next criticism:

“For instance, I have a friend whose family has a genetic tendency towards high cholesterol, and her doctor—-gasp!—-put her on a diet and exercise program in order to lower her cholesterol and avoid having to control it with drugs that can sometimes be not so good for your body.”

So, we are to infer from that that most doctors are similarly sensitive? Really? Well, since you produced a single anecdote to buttress your point, let me add that I know of MANY people who have had quite the opposite experiences with doctors. In other words, those who might have genetic predispositions to heart issues are encouraged to use expensive statin drugs, etc.

Comment #12: Tony C.  on  10/24  at  11:56 AM

@Tony: I don’t know of a single doctor who discourages a single patient from eating well and exercising regularly.  I literally have never heard of such a thing, even from the most pill-pushing of quacks.

I know plenty of quacks who discourage patients from seeking life-improving medical support, because they want to make money off of gullible people.

I have a chronic illness, and I’ll tell you something true: they’re all quacks.  Once their stuff doesn’t work on you, they drop you. 

That said, American food is shit and nobody should ever eat anything ever that isn’t at least organic and probably locally sourced.  I always get sick as hell when I try to eat out any more, and it’s just that my system can’t take the stress of the shit most Americans shovel into their pieholes.

Comment #13: Punditus Maximus  on  10/24  at  12:01 PM

I guess it’s true that we’re somewhat over-treated, especially with anti-biotics for viruses.  But I think there’s just as much or more under-treatment.  How many people still think that kids with ADD just need a good hard smack or some other kind of discipline?  How many people think that giving kids with ADD medications is somehow cheating or just a substitute for better parenting?  How many people think that autism is over-diagnosed and just slapped onto every problem child that just needs more love, attention, or play time?  In fact, I will bet there are regular commenters here who think that childhood ADD and autism are over-diagnosed, are just made up, or are only “real” in the most extreme cases.

I think much of the problem with both over- and under-treatment is the lack of education of the public.  I know it’s not a good excuse for a doctor to prescribe something that won’t work because s/he should know better, but it is a customer service job and I can understand why many of them would just give in to demanding patients.  On the other hand, someone who doesn’t “believe in” ADD or autism might avoid taking their kid to the doctor in the first place so it’s really hard to blame doctors for that one.

Comment #14: bananacat  on  10/24  at  12:01 PM

But, and just to buttress this point, that’s partially because makes of food additives are NOT held to the same standards as drug manufacturers, even though of course that should be absolutely required.

Comment #15: Punditus Maximus  on  10/24  at  12:02 PM

@bananacat, my experience is that a bunch of childhood ADD would be well-treated by having the kids be adequately supervised and attended to by their folks—or by creating regular exercise periods in school.  If I were forced to live the life of the average schoolchild in the US, I’d have some kind of mental disorder in six months or so.

Comment #16: Punditus Maximus  on  10/24  at  12:04 PM

my husband will read a libertarian newsfeed website that is plastered with alt-med/survivalist/colloidial silver ads.  he knows to read most stuff with a grain of salt but psych-med stories, especially for kids, trip his trigger.  there was a recent story about doctors wanting to test 4yo for ADHD instead of waiting until 6 or older.  the actual story was pretty tame but the webfeed implied, of course, that they want to sedate the f**k out of your preschooler because they cant finish a russian novel.

first lets think.  many behavioural/mental disorders are backwards diagnosed so looking for, or at least not out of hand dismissing behavioural patterns, is a good thing. shoot, anyone with children can tell you that their personalities and tendancies are there from a very early age, so yeah, there is some stuff that they aint going to grow out of.  and it’s also a sticky widget suggesting that someone have any sort of testing or analysis done about a child’s development. but if you’re testing for something at three, it was probably there at two, or younger.  looking for something that’s happening at 6, it was probably there at 4.

but back to the story at hand, this is the same time that kindergarten screening happens.  of course school staff and other qualified people are going to be accessing the readiness and what special needs your child might have.  do you really want to wait until theyre already older and possibly falling behind to see if there’s something wrong?  really what’s a worse label?  ADHD or “disruptive,” “a poor student,” “trouble-maker” or any of the other labels the child themselves or their peers might give them? do you want people to think your child is just a plain, old brat, or someone who has special needs and considerations?  there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Comment #17: gardenom  on  10/24  at  12:05 PM

In terms of over treatment it seems that the over treated drive the costs up for people either without insurance or for those of us that have really crappy insurance, in the end it creates a perfect storm where it is very difficult to have a good health outcome.

Comment #18: Benny  on  10/24  at  12:08 PM

“I don’t know of a single doctor who discourages a single patient from eating well and exercising regularly.  I literally have never heard of such a thing, even from the most pill-pushing of quacks.”

Interesting straw man argument, given that I neither said nor implied anything of the sort.

What percentage of doctors do you imagine encourage their patients to make lifestyle changes BEFORE pushing statin (and other) drugs on them? Do you imagine that it is a high percentage? I certainly don’t.

Comment #19: Tony C.  on  10/24  at  12:09 PM

@Tony C, if you knew the average American patient, you would understand why docs wouldn’t push a therapy that they knew had a terrible rate of compliance.

My dad’s been told for thirty years to lose thirty pounds.  He’s had four heart attacks during that time.  The docs just give him statins now, because they know their limits.

Comment #20: Punditus Maximus  on  10/24  at  12:12 PM

@16 - without devolving into some argument, how does parental supervision treat ADHD?  are you saying behaviour modification or other parental (or any adult for that matter) techniques will redirect over-active tendancies or as bananacat says all that’s needed is a swift whack on the butt will learn ‘em?

Comment #21: gardenom  on  10/24  at  12:13 PM

Wow, only two comments until my point was proven.  I think that’s a record for me.  Punditus, are you a doctor?  And if not, why do you feel like you are more qualified to diagnose a bunch of kids you’ve never met?  Hell, have you ever even met an actual person with ADD?  It’s not what you think it is, and extra playtime, while beneficial, won’t make ADD magically go away.

Comment #22: bananacat  on  10/24  at  12:14 PM

I think there is a certain degree of knee-jerk avoidance of “chemicals” and “free radicals” and “anything not natural” as a result of a long-time-coming recognition of the dangers of smoking and alcohol.  You are talking to a generation of people that went from “My father smoked like a chimney and he lived to see 90, cigarettes are fine!” to “Shit, these things are actually killing people en mass because they are carcinogenic.”  And I should mention all the “Your hamburger has poop in it!” and “Spinach is going to give you eccoli!” scares that provoke varying degrees of legitimate concern.  Combine that with very legitimate environmental concerns surrounding mercury and lead poisoning, or the dangerous of house hold products like bleach and ammonia especially for small children and its easy to see why people can start getting a bit confused about the “dangers of salycic acid”.


So I don’t think “Go Natural!” is such a bad reaction on its face.  We are finally exiting a dark age of industrialization where we recognize that there are things in the air and food and water doing us harm that aren’t necessarily visible to the naked eye.  That’s a good thing.  This quackery blow back isn’t good on its face, but it is merely a symptom of an otherwise positive cultural development.

Now Huffpo, on the other hand, is bad and bad for you.  They’ve got no excuse passing off this pseudo-scientific nonsense.  At a certain point, all you can do is flag people away from the site and chalk it up as a learning experience.  :-p That said, I can’t really be shocked that a web site that specializes in stealing sensationalist stories ripped from other people’s news journals to pad its own ad revenue would stoop to peddling hackery put out by another sensationalist looking to score free eyeballs.

If you want better journalism, you’re going to have to pay for it.  Anyone getting something for free on the internet isn’t a client, he’s a product.  Huffpo is just selling their audience out.

Comment #23: Zifnab  on  10/24  at  12:14 PM

PM –

Ah, I see. So because a high percentage of Americans take poor care of themselves, who can blame doctors for prescribing drugs promiscuously?

Got it.

Comment #24: Tony C.  on  10/24  at  12:15 PM

@Tony C.—yes, that was exactly my point.  You’re stating it like it’s sarcastic, but . . . yes.  Doctors have a certain amount of energy and they meet their patients where they are at.  If Americans felt like it was their job to take care of their own bodies, doctors would alter practice.  Yes, the drug companies are horrible, and yes, doctors are abused by their training.  But let’s not forget that there’s a core self-destructiveness that feeds this.

@bananacat: I know folks who had AD(H)D as kids and continue to struggle with it as an adult, both myself and family members.  Yes, that’s right, I’ve been diagnosed (correctly) with ADD, and I take medication for it as needed. 

The problem is that I know many more folks who were diagnosed with AD(H)D as kids as a method of social control and who magically “lost” their symptoms once they got free of the awful, soul-crushing lives imposed on them by their schools and parents.  Once they felt like something other than machines which were brutalized for acting “incorrectly” and could actually exercise when they needed to and eat when they were hungry and have some control over their days.

The fact that some people have actual ADD and are massively helped by pharmacological intervention doesn’t mean that the diagnosis isn’t abused to keep people in line, just like the fact that there exists mental illness in the world doesn’t mean that diagnoses of mental illness weren’t used to brutalize dissidents in authoritarian regimes.

Comment #25: Punditus Maximus  on  10/24  at  12:28 PM

Tony, if you think technology is such an evil thing that has made life worse for people, I invite you to begin at home, perhaps by throwing out your computer so you can’t leave ignorant, anti-science comments on blogs.

Comment #26: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/24  at  12:30 PM

Also, the “natural” thing has to do with the fact that if you don’t put enormous energy into it, you’re pretty much eating pesticides all day and drinking carcinogenic plastic in your bottled water and sodas/teas.  Speaking as a person with an environmentally spawned illness, that shit is unavoidable.  It’s just everywhere, and our government lets it happen.  So people are confused, poorly informed, and react to the wrong things.

Comment #27: Punditus Maximus  on  10/24  at  12:31 PM

I know way too many people who are anti-doctor, anti-medicine, “The problem with this country is that we want a pill for everything.”  The under-treatment of pain (see Myth #2) is, I think, a direct consequence of our collective masochism and machismo.  No, I do not admire you for “toughing it out.”  My dad had a severe attack of kidney stones, so what did he do?  Obviously, he spent the whole day at work and then came home to complain about it until my mother drove him to ER.  And yes, I was raised in a religion where suffering for suffering’s sake is considered a moral good.  It is so fucked up to make ignoring your body (pain is a SIGNAL) a point of pride.  What I’m proud of is having overcome most of that (but not all…maybe in time).

And so many people who want to get healthcare, can’t.  I guess that’s related.  If you can’t get care, you have to find a way to cope mentally and being “tough” is more socially acceptable than showing you’re in pain.

Comment #28: bomberE  on  10/24  at  12:34 PM

one last one on ADHD and the behavioural needs of children - a rising tide raises all ships, so to speak.

brain breaks, physical activity breaks, allowing for self-directed instruction or the ability to change locations to learn or to re-group, special ways of learning or take tests can be successfully used for all sorts of children (and adults, too.)

but in order to know if these things need to be implimented in greater frequency or exclusively, we have to know if there is a “problem.”  im not the one to keep trying the same thing expecting different results, but if i already know something about a certain child, i know to skip all the way to z instead of trying a and b and c, etc.

Comment #29: gardenom  on  10/24  at  12:38 PM

Tony, are you sincerely arguing that people don’t eat right and exercise because that advice has never been given to them?

Fascinating.

Where do you live, if you don’t mind my asking? Because I want to visit the corner of the country where that’s not common knowledge.

Comment #30: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/24  at  12:39 PM

This stiff is so irritating to me, since I’d really rather not be taking multiple medications on a daily basis.  But since I do, I’m one of the dupes.

Comment #31: saraeanderson  on  10/24  at  12:41 PM

There are some 10 million uninsured children in this country, and about 50 million uninsured citizens overall.

This has the following immediate corollary. There are two kinds of individuals in this country: (1) those who believe that we collectively have TOO LITTLE access to modern health care, and (2) stupid, privileged assholes.

Comment #32: rb1  on  10/24  at  12:41 PM

Well saraeanderson, the solution is simple!  Just STOP taking those evil pills and heal yourself naturally!  Break free of the brainwashing of Conventional Medicine!

Comment #33: bomberE  on  10/24  at  12:47 PM

We are the 99% ... whose lives have been improved by medical science!

Comment #34: Salient  on  10/24  at  12:50 PM

This stuff just makes us liberals look like kooks.  Anymore, I half suspect Arianna is doing it on purpose.

Comment #35: Satanicpanic  on  10/24  at  01:03 PM

On #4, even more than something like Lipitor, I’d point to treatments like chemotherapy for ‘horrible short-term/beneficial long-term’ examples.  Or HIV medication.  Both of which can absolutely ravage your body and be awful to experience, but they have the potential to, you know, keep you alive

Now, there are certainly people who (particularly depending on their type of illness), make the choice to forego such treatment and live shorter lives, and there are certainly some people who take these sorts of treatments past the point of effectiveness and end up suffering needlessly at the end of their lives, but neither of these things is somehow evidence that those treatments don’t work for a great many people in the very way that they’re supposed to work. 

I, personally, will ‘suffer’ through things like colds, maybe taking an antihistamine if they get really bad, just because I know that for things like that, you do just have to suffer through them.  But there are other things that, as soon as I’m symptomatic, I’m at my doctor’s (or the 24-hour clinic’s) doorstep.  The first time I got a UTI in college, I didn’t know what it was and thought it was something that would go away on its own.  One week and one spreading upper respiratory infection (and ambulance ride to the hospital, IV medication, etc.) later, and I learned my lesson right quick.  I only get one every few years, but I will not go even 24 hours without getting myself some Cipro. 

And I know the precise location of every 24-hour, no-appointment-necessary, Beth Israel walk-in clinic in NYC for precisely this reason.

Comment #36: sam  on  10/24  at  01:04 PM

Also, the “natural” thing has to do with the fact that if you don’t put enormous energy into it, you’re pretty much eating pesticides all day and drinking carcinogenic plastic in your bottled water and sodas/teas.

Wow, you’re not good at science are you?  Organic foods use pesticides.  They are “natural” pesticides but that doesn’t say anything at all about their danger.  And then of course plants produce their own pesticides, which exceed any amount of trace pesticides that have been applied.

Pesticides aren’t some magical substance.  They don’t taint or infect the food.  They don’t generally penetrate the surface, and they are easily water-soluble.  If you rinse your food, you’re fine.  If you peel it, you’re even better.  Organic bananas are not healthier or safer than traditional ones; they just cost more.

As for BPA, it’s a legitimate concern but of course the dose makes the poison.  You shouldn’t buy bottle water anyway unless it’s an emergency, but the typical dose you’ll get from the occasional soda won’t be enough to effect you.  I guess it’s ok to over-react and remove it from baby bottles, even though there has never been evidence that it’s actually harmful.

But you’re the very typical person who hears a scary-sounding name of a chemical and over-reacts to it.  Everything is chemicals.  We do need to watch all chemicals, but that includes the naturally-occurring ones.  And we need to freak out only when something is actually a threat.

Of course you’ll just assume that I don’t want any regulation or testing, or that I want to pump everyone full of poison.  But you have clearly demonstrated why it’s so hard to have a reasonable conversation about these things.  On one hand are the chemists who understand that nothing is risk-free but that plenty of things are not harmful in low doses while other are bad and that everything needs to be decided on a case-by-case basis.  And on the other hand are people who think that everyone is out to poison them through negligence and/or greed, or that contacting one molecule of something “unnatural” is a serious risk.

Comment #37: bananacat  on  10/24  at  01:12 PM

The natural remedy thing didn’t bother me until someone pointed out that a lot of today’s medications are, in essence, better-controlled versions of ‘natural’ cures. You know exactly how much of the active ingredient you’re getting, without whatever other impurities the plant itself includes.

I’m another person who would rather not be on drugs, but I am because the alternative is worse. And I’ll admit, that impulse is largely because of the idea that it’s ‘bad’ to put extra chemicals into my body. My husband also gets periodic pressure from his mother to go off his medication. In my case, the medication is for mental problems, so there’s also a healthy does of, ‘you just need to try harder/exercise more/stop being depressed,’ pressure from society, even if it’s not directed at me specifically. Would I like to be able to function normally without taking a pill every morning? Totally. But that’s not on the table for me, and functioning on meds is better than not functioning at all. Wellbutrin is my saviour—if you don’t like that you can take your opinion and stuff it where the sun don’t shine.

Comment #38: Jayn Newell  on  10/24  at  01:13 PM

Just to show that love of “technology” and love of stupid woo are not mutually exclusive:

Jobs is painted as a stubborn egomaniac who refused to get treatment for his cancer when he was first diagnosed despite entreaties from close friends like Intel CEO Andy Grove, who is a cancer survivor himself, and Genentech chairman Arthur Levinson, who is an Apple director. “That’s not how cancer works,” Levinson recalls telling Jobs when he first set out to cure his disease by with a vegan diet, carrot juice, acupuncture, and visits to a psychic. “You cannot solve this without surgery and blasting it with toxic chemicals.”

But of course Jobs proved that Pharma moneygrubber wrong!

Oh, wait.

Comment #39: rb1  on  10/24  at  01:21 PM

That is awful, especially because it’s podiatry. There isn’t any amount of antioxidants or any lack of vaccines that is going to make foot pain go away. To say otherwise will put people through more misery, like it did for me. If I denied genetic factors, I wouldn’t be encouraging my sister to get checked out before she ends up in excruciating pain like I did.

I have chronic feet pain that has robbed me of my life, starting at age 18. Although I like eating blue berries, no amount of this homeopathic crap would have helped me. There were so many doctors that told me “buy better tennis shoes, don’t wear flip flops… I’d tell you to loose weight like I tell my other patients, but you’re 110lbs… you just shouldn’t have pain—you’re too young” and that just extended my years of intolerable suffering. It was the sciency doctors who used technology to make orthopedic inserts that let me be able to stand long enough to cook simple meals. It was the technology-loving doctor who figured out that my ankle bones are deformed using a MRI, which didn’t help because there’s nothing that can be done about it.

I wish I didn’t know that and I wish I believed that I do have control over everything like that quack says, because then I’d have hope of having an enjoyable life someday if I do everything right.

Comment #40: vcatalysis  on  10/24  at  01:23 PM

The “don’t take allergy meds, they just suppress the symptoms” thing may be the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard. Okay, so you don’t suppress the symptoms. Then what? Do your allergies get better? Are allergy meds somehow preventing you from accessing the cure?  I think if doctors could cure allergies they would be on that shit.

Meanwhile, the symptoms of allergies can actually cause disease. It seems a solid chunk, maybe even most colds start with allergies that weren’t treated properly, allowing infection to take hold in your lungs and sinuses. Most sinus infections for sure start because the symptoms of allergies overwhelmed your body.

Comment #41: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/24  at  01:26 PM

Overmedicalized and undertreated are in a lot of ways flip sides of the same coin, just like “for the children” and no paid family leave or subsidized daycare. Life in our society sucks in so many different ways, many of them amorphous, most of them impossible for individuals to change, and getting a honest-to-goodness Diagnosis from a doctor is one of the few ways to have a legitimated form of suffering that other people (including employers) can’t just ignore. So no surprise that people will take any actual ailment and get as much mileage out if it as they can. And meanwhile, time after time studies show that the big difference between alternative practitioners and regular ones is that the alternative practitioners spend 3-4 times as long examining and talking to their patients—which is a big deal when patients need attention and concern as well as direct treatment and/or medication.

I think a lot of people would be willing to just be sick and get better (when that’s what’s going on) without a lot of treatment if the rest of their lives were structured in ways that made room for that. But when employers count how many sick days you take, or don’t give sick days at all…

Comment #42: paul  on  10/24  at  01:27 PM

Pesticides aren’t some magical substance.  They don’t taint or infect the food.  They don’t generally penetrate the surface, and they are easily water-soluble.

If this is what you believe, then I can see why you would blow me off.  Most chemists I know won’t use modern beauty products, eat organic exclusively, and wash their food obsessively with purified water.

In fact, the most hardcore anti-pesticide guy I ever met was a chemist, and he told me that it was because of what he learned.  He’s the guy who got me to change soaps.

 

Comment #43: Punditus Maximus  on  10/24  at  01:27 PM

@38 i call it “hugs and fish oil” when it comes to treating behavioural and mental issues with children.  the implication being that if you were a better person/parent and/or apply some far-out diet or natural treatment of the week (cause those never have any draw-backs) all your child(ren)‘s problems would disappear.

Comment #44: gardenom  on  10/24  at  01:28 PM

Actually, in re-reading the points, he is correct on point #6, although it is very misleading.  The double-blind study does not guaranteesafety, but it does significantly decrease the risk.  This should be used as a classic example of telling a lie by telling the truth.

Comment #45: James  on  10/24  at  01:29 PM

The “don’t take allergy meds, they just suppress the symptoms” thing may be the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard. Okay, so you don’t suppress the symptoms. Then what? Do your allergies get better?

I mean, as far as I can tell, the symptoms of allergies are “the disease”.  Allergies are your immune system overreacting to an abundance of some irritant.  The allergy medications counter-act that overreaction.

This is like telling someone who is on fire that diving in a swimming pool may look like a good idea at first, but won’t really help things because what happens when you are on fire again?  :-p You’re absolutely right.  Idiotic.

Comment #46: Zifnab  on  10/24  at  01:32 PM

As a special ed teacher who has sat in numerous IEP meetings, I will say that I do believe ADD and Autism exists, but not NEAR at the levels that kids are now getting diagnosed. Autism is more complicated, so lets take ADD.

ADD is most often diagnosed by a teacher or group of teachers whose day is being challenged by a particular student’s behavior. It usually starts as a kid causing trouble (or as a doctor on a Frontline documentary put it famously, “are below average in sitting still.”). An IEP assessment is called, differential diagnoses are ruled out, and the only thing left to do to get the kid into the SPED system is to diagnose ADD. A recommendation is given to parents to go to their pediatrician with this information and a request is given from the teachers/IEP team members to medicate the child, which many pediatricians will simply comply with. This diagnosis will get the kid some SPED services and provide the classroom teacher some relief (usually a person dealing with too many children that need to tow the classroom management line because that is what she does, manages the classroom with a bit of teaching on the side when she is lucky.) Medication may also alleviate the problem. Teachers with smaller class ratios, or more varied/flexible/creative teaching strategies tend to refer kids to SPED for ADD evaluation far less than those who struggle with class sizes, or are more rigid in their teaching styles.

Many diagnoses such as ADD are a direct response to the funding and structure of Special Ed services after PL 94-142 was enacted in 1975. Teachers teach towards the center of the bell curve because they have to due to the necessity of classroom structure as it is today. Those that fall outside of it for any reason are considered to have a “disability” and that disability needs a name and a funding source so that those kids can fall through the regular ed track and into SPED. That’s all it is.

This is not to say that some kids don’t really have an organic neurological issue that is so severe as to need medication. I do believe that is in the realm of possibility, and have seen some cases of it. But many children are diagnosed as ADD as a response to their teacher’s or district’s classroom management style and the limitations put on the flexibility of mainstream public education and nothing else.

Oh, and by the way, I buy organic bananas because they are cheaper than regular ones. (About .27 cents a banana vs. .30). This is because they come from a relatively speaking, more local source instead of being shipped a longer distance. There are lots of reasons to buy locally produced organic food. It isn’t only about what scary pesticides you are eating. It is about how food is produced and how it affects the environment on a larger scale.

Comment #47: Lexie  on  10/24  at  01:37 PM

“Science! What has science ever done for us? TV off.” [TV turns off]

Comment #48: ganews_  on  10/24  at  01:37 PM

Amanda –

First, It’s quite disappointing to see you resort to ad hominem attacks (#24).

Following that, you resort to a straw man argument (#30). I neither stated nor implied anything of the sort.

Comment #49: Tony C.  on  10/24  at  01:53 PM

Speaking as someone who would really have liked to have been diagBnosed with autism before my last couple of years of high school, I have no idea what some of you are talking about. I had some special education services for psychical issues, but my mental ones were rarely taken seriously by my parents and my mom was pretty good at getting my teachers to agree that I was just being manipulable and shit like that. I only got a more meaningful diagnosis to get “services” after high school and none of them were ever very helpful. Of course, my parents prefer to think that’s some personal failing on my part rather than anyone else’s. That line of thinking really isn’t better than alternatives.

Comment #50: Quijotesca  on  10/24  at  01:58 PM

Many diagnoses such as ADD are a direct response to the funding and structure of Special Ed services ... those that fall outside of it for any reason are considered to have a “disability” and that disability needs a name and a funding source so that those kids can fall through the regular ed track and into SPED. That’s all it is.

Fallacy of false dichotomy. Like early intervention, special (or alternative, if you prefer) education can both be highly necessary and require infuriating bureaucratic hoop-jumping. ADD may both exist and be over-diagnosed, and scare quotes don’t make a disability not a disability, despite expert opinion that a bullshit story is “all it is.”

This is not to say that some kids don’t really have an organic neurological issue that is so severe as to need medication. I do believe that is in the realm of possibility

Oh, really? I would have thought that severe neurological damage was simply impossible in young people! Particularly as modern medical science has had zero success in preserving life among children who in prior generations would have died in infancy. /quintuple facepalm

Comment #51: rb1  on  10/24  at  01:58 PM

What’s remarkable about this comment thread is that such a high percentage of the contributors extrapolate to broad conclusions from individual experiences or a tiny number of anecdotes.

No doubt there is, for example, a relatively small percentage of children who benefit from drugs. But does anyone seriously believe that there isn’t a wild over-prescribing of drugs to children these days, and that countless numbers of them suffer long-term, damage as a result?

Comment #52: Tony C.  on  10/24  at  02:03 PM

I wonder how much dislike of med-taking is another variant of the more limbic Fear of Contamination. I bet a lot. To imagine that a few milligrams of acetomenaphine is worse than a raging headache, well, that’s speaks to something deeper, and heaping scorn on Big Pharma because of that often feels to me like retconning (in this case, finding a ‘reason’ to justify a less-rational gut response).

Disclaimers: Of course, if you keep getting raging headaches, you might wanna get that checked out because symptom abatement is not the same thing as cure, duh. And Big Pharma that is a bunch of shareholder-obsessed money grubbers does not negate the fact that analgesics do indeed relieve headaches and reduce inflammation.

Comment #53: benvolio  on  10/24  at  02:14 PM

Let me also be clear about something: my primary problem with Amanda’s post is that it implies that these issues are black and white. That perspective is reflected in many comments above as well.

That strikes me as both an untenable position, and a poor place from which to launch serious criticisms.

Comment #54: Tony C.  on  10/24  at  02:15 PM

“There must be a reason why the body would call upon a gene to express itself.”

This is a big part of the problem with his/their mindset.  That the body is smart and we are just these little brains attached to them being stupid and manipulative.  It’s of a piece with the “go with your heart” idea, that your intuitive understanding of a subject is way more intelligent and nuanced than any professional or study or what you may think.  It basically ignores that the professional is also a person and studies are interpreted by people.

What feeds into this are idiot doctors.  Seriously, the number of people who confuse “my doctor says” with “science says” is pretty amazing.  White coat == science I guess.  All the times a doctor saved your or a loved one’s life or diagnosed something correctly get forgotten when one doctor does something wrong.  They’re human, they make mistakes, some proportion of them are idiots or jerks.  As Punditus Maximus said, they have to meet the patient where they are.

And meanwhile, time after time studies show that the big difference between alternative practitioners and regular ones is that the alternative practitioners spend 3-4 times as long examining and talking to their patients…
Comment #42: paul on 10/24 at 01:27 PM

Oh, and also, they are not curing anything, just selling mostly ineffective substances and treatments, so they either don’t get the care they need.  Sometimes they give them something that actually hurts the patient.  That’s the real main difference.

Comment #55: oldfeminist  on  10/24  at  02:15 PM

#53 above is a perfect example. It’s binary: either you use medication or suffer terrible pain.

How absurd.

Comment #56: Tony C.  on  10/24  at  02:16 PM

Myth #4 - Medications improve health

I don’t know about health, but they have improved my quality of life. If Loratadine did not exist, I would not be able to stop rubbing my eyes and blowing my nose long enough to type this comment.

Comment #57: MissCherryPi  on  10/24  at  02:16 PM

@52.  Judith Warner addresses this in “we’ve got issues.”  she started writing with the premise that kids are overmedicated/overdiagnosed and then goes on to find only statistically negligible data supporting that view.

Comment #58: gardenom  on  10/24  at  02:19 PM

But does anyone seriously believe that there isn’t a wild over-prescribing of drugs to children these days, and that countless numbers of them suffer long-term, damage as a result?

Yes. It simply has never been close to proven that countless numbers of children suffer long-term damage from over-prescription of drugs.

You have a feeling that overprescription is a problem (and I happen to suspect that it IS a problem in specific populations and with respect to specific disorders), but the scale of this problem is currently unquantified.

Moreover, due to whatever reason you appear blind to the massive number of children whose medical issues (mental and otherwise) are UNDER-diagnosed and under-treated right here in the good ol’ U S of A. 

A trivial for-instance: asthma. Check it out on the google.

Comment #59: rb1  on  10/24  at  02:21 PM

No doubt there is, for example, a relatively small percentage of children who benefit from drugs. But does anyone seriously believe that there isn’t a wild over-prescribing of drugs to children these days, and that countless numbers of them suffer long-term, damage as a result?

ITT, I answer your over-extrapolated anecdotal experience with:

A. peer-reviewed scientific studies
B. reliable, statistically valid survey information
C. rhetorical questions

Comment #60: Dan  on  10/24  at  02:22 PM

What makes #4 worse is that it provides a really convenient categorical fallacy for people who have had bad experiences with medication.  If you have had a doctor who lapsed into mission creep while trying to figure out the best treatment plan for you, or who failed to mention alternative treatment options because zie assumed you lacked the discipline to manage your condition without pills, you’re probably already on the verge of giving up on medication altogether.  Hearing from a “doctor” that this is probably a good idea is the last thing anyone needs.

Comment #61: mamram  on  10/24  at  02:25 PM

I think a lot of animosity on the anti-pharma side comes from personal bad experiences. Are there people who have been hurt because of being over- or inappropriately treated for medical issues they may or may not have? Sure. There’s also people who are hurt by not being treated for issues that need to be treated. The instinctive distrust some people have of the medical establishment is not helpful. The system has problems, but it’s not ineffectual either. Pushing people not to use treatments they do need IS harmful.

Should we be more cautious? Probably. What we have, though, is not people advising caution. What we have is a group of people pushing alternative treatment options to the exclusion of (rather than as a supplement to) modern medicine.

Comment #62: Jayn Newell  on  10/24  at  02:28 PM

@Comment #49: Tony C.  on 10/24 at 01:53 PM

Amanda –

First, It’s quite disappointing to see you resort to ad hominem attacks (#24).

Hey, I think her ad homiem attacks are just fine! Some of the better ones I read.

Comment #63: atheist  on  10/24  at  02:30 PM

Seriously though, as a manic depressive guy with intense allergies, I have to say that without modern medicine my life would be complete hell.

Comment #64: atheist  on  10/24  at  02:33 PM

@Comment #54: Tony C.  on 10/24 at 01:15 PM

Let me also be clear about something: my primary problem with Amanda’s post is that it implies that these issues are black and white. That perspective is reflected in many comments above as well.

That strikes me as both an untenable position, and a poor place from which to launch serious criticisms.

Did you somehow miss her entire first paragraph?

 

Comment #65: atheist  on  10/24  at  02:35 PM

Well, when I was diagnosed with high blood pressure, I was running 20+ miles a week, biking to work every day, lifting twice a week, doing yoga regularly, and eating mostly fruits, veggies, and vegetarian proteins. I weighed 115 lbs and wore size 0. I was 29 years old. What the hell was I supposed to do other than take pills? The pills probably saved me from becoming the female Jim Fixx. 

It’s funny, if I’d spent my 20’s topping pepperoni pizzas with Big Macs and lazing out playing World of Warcraft all day, I’d have had the exact same outcome. I’m sure my doctor would have blamed my diet and lifestyle. Except that my reality proves that my lifestyle never mattered.

Comment #66: Yawgmoth  on  10/24  at  02:35 PM

Of course, my parents prefer to think that’s some personal failing on my part rather than anyone else’s.

Don’t worry, there’s a whole chorus here to pile on and tell you that your (lack of) treatment was in fact OVER treatment, and if only you’d have chosen the correct (suitably vetted) strain of locally grown asparagus, none of this would have happened….

In sincerity, I am sorry that this happened to you, which of course is a sentiment not worth the pixels it darkens. Nevertheless, I empathize. It is enraging to think of those in need surrounded by the loud and privileged who complain dramatically of overabundance, and humbling to realize that there but for the flip of a coin go we all.

Comment #67: rb1  on  10/24  at  02:35 PM

atheist –

No, I didn’t miss it. And I don’t doubt that she has nuanced views on medical issues. However, her criticisms of the HuffPo piece suggest otherwise.

Comment #68: Tony C.  on  10/24  at  02:41 PM

@atheiest Seriously though, as a manic depressive guy with intense allergies, I have to say that without modern medicine my life would be complete hell.

@Yawgmoth Well, when I was diagnosed with high blood pressure, I was running 20+ miles a week, biking to work every day, lifting twice a week, doing yoga regularly, and eating mostly fruits, veggies, and vegetarian proteins ... my reality proves that my lifestyle never mattered.

But you see, your actual experiences don’t matter. You’ve been brainwashed by big pharma and evil doctors. The treatment IS the disease, amirite!? Don’t know know you’re living in the Matrix?

(Herman Cain-ing the conversation. It works in every context!)

 

Comment #69: rb1  on  10/24  at  02:42 PM

My personal experience makes me somewhat skeptical of the idea that kids are wildly overdiagnosed with ADHD.  When I was a kid my mom had to fight tooth and nail to get the acknowledge that I had a learning disability: she started asking about it when I was in the first grade, and it wasn’t until I was a junior in high school that I was allowed to get support from the special education program (way too late).  I’m 25 at this point, so maybe things have changed since then, but I’m guessing that kids with learning disabilities still cost schools more than kids without them, so I’m not sure why schools would be jumping all over themselves to allocate extra resources to students whose parents would rather they just fail all of their classes and never graduate.  Which, BTW, is what happens when you don’t treat kids who need treatment for their ADHD.  I didn’t just run around a little to blow off steam, and then just get back to learning the things I needed to learn in order to function as an adult in society.  I failed all of my classes and didn’t graduate. 

Also, it’s pretty widely accepted that a large number of kids with ADHD (~50%, I think?) do not have ADHD as adults.  This does not mean that those people did not have ADHD in the first place.  Just because somebody grows out of a problem (or learns to compensate for it) does not mean that the problem didn’t exist in the first place.

Comment #70: mamram  on  10/24  at  02:43 PM

Oh, and also, they are not curing anything, just selling mostly ineffective substances and treatments, so they either don’t get the care they need.

True for conditions where treatment will make a major difference in the course of the illness. But lots of chronic illnesses aren’t that well treated by conventional means (e.g. some kinds of arthritis, chronic back pain, some migraines), and some of the conventional treatments carry serious risks (e.g. the spike in heart disease from high-end NSAIDs). So for those kinds of conditions, where a conventional doctor is going to spend 8 minutes with you and then send you for a bunch of tests and/or a prescription that doesn’t do you a lot of good, the alternative of going to a non-conventional doctor who will spend 30-40 minutes with you, appearing to listen carefully before giving you some stuff that doesn’t do anything (but probably costs less) may be preferable to a patient.

The problem is, in agreement with what you say, that when people get more attention from alternative practitioners for conditions that either don’t need treatment or aren’t particularly responsive to conventional treatment, they’re then more likely to go to the alternative people for things that do need conventional treatment.

(A somewhat illustrative example: the other week I went to my GP for a checkup—I’m old enough to need that—and also with sore throat and swollen glands of a few days duration. She looked at that and said “It could be strep, but by the time we take a culture and put you on something it would probably be gone anyway, so just wash your hands a lot.” Good advice, but I have to admit to having been just a little disappointed.)

 

Comment #71: paul  on  10/24  at  02:44 PM

The fact that it’s so hard for people with real problems to get treatment but very easy for people with aggressive parents to get treatment should give one pause.

Comment #72: Punditus Maximus  on  10/24  at  02:48 PM

@Comment #68: Tony C.  on 10/24 at 02:41 PM

atheist –

No, I didn’t miss it. And I don’t doubt that she has nuanced views on medical issues. However, her criticisms of the HuffPo piece suggest otherwise.

You misunderstand. Her entire first paragraph is about the grains of truth within the silliness. She explains how it could appear to folks that the US public is overmedicated, then she shows how this is not the case. That is the nuance that you claim not to see. Her criticisms of the Huffpo piece are straightforward. Her attacks on the stupidity of Dr Kornfeld are, if anything, understated.

Comment #73: atheist  on  10/24  at  02:53 PM

The fact that it’s so hard for people with real problems to get treatment but very easy for people with aggressive parents to get treatment should give one pause.

First, I resemble the implication that having “aggressive parents” is not a “real problem.” wink

Second, it’s the way one is “given pause” that is at issue here. I suggest the idea that we should discourage people from seeking treatment is not a rational response to a problem that isn’t even proven to exist on a mass scale, despite specific people being (sometimes) able to access treatments they may not need.

Do we prescribe fewer grocery markets because along with things like, you know, food, markets also sell potato chips? There are millions of Americans who’d get tangible benefit from a grocery mart closer to where they live, even if others would only use it to gorge on Lay’s.

Comment #74: rb1  on  10/24  at  03:02 PM

  Oh, and also, they are not curing anything, just selling mostly ineffective substances and treatments, so they either don’t get the care they need.

True for conditions where treatment will make a major difference in the course of the illness. But lots of chronic illnesses aren’t that well treated by conventional means (e.g. some kinds of arthritis, chronic back pain, some migraines), and some of the conventional treatments carry serious risks (e.g. the spike in heart disease from high-end NSAIDs). So for those kinds of conditions, where a conventional doctor is going to spend 8 minutes with you and then send you for a bunch of tests and/or a prescription that doesn’t do you a lot of good, the alternative of going to a non-conventional doctor who will spend 30-40 minutes with you, appearing to listen carefully before giving you some stuff that doesn’t do anything (but probably costs less) may be preferable to a patient.

The problem is, in agreement with what you say, that when people get more attention from alternative practitioners for conditions that either don’t need treatment or aren’t particularly responsive to conventional treatment, they’re then more likely to go to the alternative people for things that do need conventional treatment.
Comment #71: paul on 10/24 at 01:44 PM

The initial doctor probably spent that 8 minutes explaining that nothing s/he can do will help.  Then the patient goes to another doc, and another, and when “conventional medicine fails” they go to the altmed quack who gives them 43 things to take and do.  If it gets better at any time during that “treatment” then “altmed pulled through when conventional medicine failed!”

And then when they get that irregular mole or shortness of breath they go to altmed docs.

It’s never right to lie to the patient.  It’s never right to give them water and pretend it’s going to cure them.

Comment #75: oldfeminist  on  10/24  at  03:08 PM

It’s never right to lie to the patient.  It’s never right to give them water and pretend it’s going to cure them.

This.

And it’s a special category of outrageous condescension that imagines it’s OK to charge vulnerable patients for said quackery, based on the specious logic that it “probably costs less” than prescription medication.

Comment #76: rb1  on  10/24  at  03:21 PM

If you don’t see the remarkably insidious, wide-spread tendency of American doctors to push symptom relievers onto patients, often without serious efforts to diagnose and resolve the underlying problems, then I’m afraid you are not paying attention.

In many cases, there’s simply nothing to be done about the “underlying problems.” You have a cold or the flu? You can’t make it go away any faster, but you can take certain medications that help you get rough the day and make you feel less miserable. Symptom relievers are AWESOME, and I defy anyone to tell me otherwise.

Will better diet and exercise help reduce your cholesterol? sure, but what are the odds that the patient is going to follow through with that? the odds are pretty low, so it’s a better idea to make sure they take their medication, rather than watch them die because of the change in diet and exercise habits that they didn’t take up.

Comment #77: Tyro  on  10/24  at  03:42 PM

This is the quote that drives me around the bend:

“The amount of illness and morbidity in our society is dramatically rising. There are now more cases of cancer, heart disease, arthritis, auto-immune illnesses, endocrine disorders, developmental disorders, allergies, respiratory problems, infectious diseases, neurological problems, musculo-skeletal pathology, gastro-intestinal disorders, psychological illness, etc., than ever before.”

Two problems: 
1)  The amount of illness and morbidity is indeed rising because the number of people is rising.  If he means we’re all dramatically sicker than we used to be, he’s wrong.  Infectious diseases and musculo-skeletal pathology are two that are less dangerous overall than they used to be.
2)  Some diseases are much more common, it’s true.  Dying of cancer is more common now but dying of tuberculosis is less common.  The one thing that is still true and will always be true is that each of us will die exactly once so the total mortality rate for all diseases and conditions will always be 100%.

There are interesting things to be learned about medicine and demographics from the changing incidences of different diseases, but looking for one thing to blame for any change is ridiculous.

Comment #78: Nutella  on  10/24  at  03:44 PM

“The fact that it’s so hard for people with real problems to get treatment but very easy for people with aggressive parents to get treatment should give one pause.”

This is a false dichotomy, and one that I think is often used to avoid dealing with kids that do really need help.  Once my mother was told, “no, your daughter does not need extra help,” and didn’t just forget about it all and go home, she was labeled a crazy, pain in the ass, “aggressive parent.”  Which I know was taken as absolute proof that I didn’t really need help.

Comment #79: mamram  on  10/24  at  03:44 PM

saraeanderson - please keep taking all of them as long as you need to do so.  I hope your recovery continues to go well.

Comment #80: helen w. h.  on  10/24  at  03:54 PM

I get from a lot of people telling me that eating well would cure my cancer, I wish they’d go away.

Cancer is your body. It passed its test as “friend” as far as your body is concerned and your body will supply it with oxygen, feed it, protect it from injury, and protect it from disease. Eating fruits and veggies and unprocessed foods will just nourish the cancer as any food will.

In fact if you are going through chemo, of course this depends on how severe your chemo is, eating “good food” will kill you, as your chance of catching an infection rises when you eat less and less processed foods.

—-

What benefit is there in denying that people have autism or ADD or whatever.

Several commentators have demonstrated that they hold the opinion that autism or ADD is over-diagnosed, one even laid out their conspiracy theory as to why that is, but I still have to ask the above question.

Denial of neurological differences do not help those who possess those differences, and obviously the denialists don’t actually care about the well-being of children and adults who they don’t believe exist, so it has to be about the denialist, yet I can’t figure out what they gain.

Comment #81: R.T.  on  10/24  at  04:28 PM

@ Tony C.

If you don’t see the remarkably insidious, wide-spread tendency of American doctors to push symptom relievers onto patients, often without serious efforts to diagnose and resolve the underlying problems, then I’m afraid you are not paying attention.

Where do you fall on the pain-killer debates, as pain killers are symptom relievers and not cures?

Comment #82: R.T.  on  10/24  at  04:42 PM

What benefit is there in denying that people have autism or ADD or whatever.

They can feel smugly superior to the parents of children who have issues stemming from autism and ADD? After all, if they were more consistent with their discipline their kids would be able to function normally. It’s all the fault of the parents, ya know.

Comment #83: Jayn Newell  on  10/24  at  04:42 PM

What benefit is there in denying that people have autism or ADD or whatever.

A few that pop to mind:
• cost savings on expensive interventions, both medical and educational
• a handy way to avoid confronting a chronic problem affecting oneself or a loved one
• quick and easy feelings of smug superiority

Comment #84: Well, what?  on  10/24  at  04:43 PM

It’s no surprise that quacks all over dislike double blind studies, because double blind studies tend to show that “alternative” therapies don’t work at all.

Thank you, Amanda.  I am old enough to remember 1992, back when Senator Tom Harkin opened a division of the federal National Institutes of Health to study alternative medicine.  Silly me: I thought the feds would do double-blind studies on stuff like green tea or soy supplements, where there are no Pharma profits in possibly helpful therapies. 

Nah.  Harkin said we don’t need no steenkin double-blind studies.  He said bee pollen worked for him and that was good enough, dagnabit.  It took about six years before his stoopid views got pushed aside and the federal government stopped financing quackery.  Almost twenty years later I am pretty sure the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine has accomplished nothing, even though low-cost non-patented treatments might very well have some uses.

Comment #85: Unree  on  10/24  at  04:44 PM

Before modern medicine we had a lot of people dying in infancy.  That wasn’t thought to be good.  Now we have a large (non majority) percent of kids diagnosed with ADD/ADHD.  Why is the first believable though widespread, the second not?

Comment #86: oldfeminist  on  10/24  at  04:46 PM

As one of a family with multiple levels of ADD or ADHD among its members, I can tell you that some people do learn to cope, some do need medication, some do out grow it and some learn to self-medicate with more socially acceptable and easily available stimulants.  (I use a caffeine-sugar combo, as does my daughter.)  What seems to help all of us in my family is having a fairly regular schedule and limiting distractions - not always the easiest things to get in a public school.

Comment #87: helen w. h.  on  10/24  at  04:49 PM

RT, because as usual there is probably a grain of truth to the concerns.

The way we expect children to learn is profoundly unnatural. Sit still in a seat, listen to a person talking and manipulate a pen or pencil or crayon, for *hours*? This is not the way humans evolved to learn shit. Some of us are really good at learning that way, because humans have wide variability in our abilities; others really need to be learning physically, with lots of hands-on activities.

My sons both have ADD, most likely—my older son has ADD with no hyperactivity component and my younger son is totally hyper. They’re also both very, very smart and imaginative kids, which makes the fact that they’re disabled that much more obvious, but when my brother was a smart kid with what was very likely ADD, psychologists all said the problem was that he was bored with school. And while “bored with school” turns out to be a diagnosis that no one’s ever willing to implement the logical cure for, I think there’s something to it. Because my older son studied an incredibly difficult math course on cryptography in 6th grade and ended up with an A+... but it was a home-based course where we, his parents, had to give him a lot of personal attention and nagging to get him to do his work, and he could take it at his own pace, and it was of interest to him. So he *still* required a lot of personal intervention to get him to do the work, because ADD doesn’t go away when you’re not bored… but the outcome was much, much better.

When people say “I think kids are overmedicated and ADD doesn’t exist”, it’s bullshit, of course, but what they’re picking up on is that the soul-destroying, boring-ass way we teach our kids is *incredibly* difficult for kids with ADD, and if you fixed the fact that school is soul-destroying and incredibly boring, a lot of ADD kids wouldn’t *need* medication to get through their school days… and a lot of kids who *don’t* have ADD would do a lot better too. They’re observing that there’s a systematic problem which is causing a predictable result—kids can’t concentrate in school beecause HUMAN CHILDREN AREN’T DESIGNED TO LEARN THAT WAY—and jumping to the conclusion that that’s the only explanation.

And I gotta admit, I am furious that the system gives me the choice of medicating my kids so that they’ll fit the system, or letting them fail. The option of letting them learn in the way that’s ideal for them is out of my price range. If I had $40K lying around per year that I had nothing else I needed to do with it, I could send them to specialized schools for kids with ADD and Aspergers’ and other such disabilities, and maybe then they’d be taught in a way that’s right for them, not right for the assembly line that school has become. I can’t do that; I haven’t got that kind of money. My insurance, on the other hand, will cover a month’s supply of Adderall for $10.

But the difference between me and the “Overmedicating your kids is bad!” crowd is that I have seen what happens to bright ADD kids who never did get the medication. I have spent 3 hours trying to get my *second grader* to do homework that the following year, his sister breezed through in 10 minutes… and that, once he was medicated, he got done in half an hour. I know that my older son is better able to control his own focus and get things done when he is medicated than when he is not. I’d love for the school system to teach my sons in the way that their brains are wired to learn… but a, it’s not gonna happen, and b, they’d still have ADD anyway, it’d just be easier for them to manage.

The people who think ADD doesn’t exist and kids are overmedicated have their hearts in the right place. They’re opposed to using psychoactive medication on children to make them conform to structures that really aren’t good for anyone. The problem is, unfortunately, that only rich people have the freedom to escape those structures without penalty, and if kids don’t conform at least somewhat they are destroyed, and given the choice between preaching about a Utopia while letting my kids suffer now, and doing what I can now to help my kids, I’m gonna help my kids, even if there’s a better way that just isn’t something I can possibly achieve, living in the society that I do. And, Americans tend to be black and white extremists, so a lot of these folks have no idea how much just having ADD makes life difficult for people even when you’re *not* requiring them to conform to the school system, or how tough it is to learn even things you’d love to know when you can’t control your own concentration.

(As for autism, that one stumps me. It’s not like you hear every day about pills that magically make autistic kids act NT, so there isn’t pharmacology involved in that.)

Comment #88: Alara J Rogers  on  10/24  at  05:00 PM

It’s not just a regular schedule.  It’s the regular schedule that works for you.  And, it turns out, that treats a lot of things besides ADD, such as anxiety issues, depression, and some other things.

It’s almost like a percentage of people who endure lifestyles that are not designed for their benefit develop or exacerbate mental disorders, in a fashion which is strongly influenced by their genetics.

Astonishing, I know.

Remember, our lifestyle is an experiment.  It’s a good one; widespread prosperity is teh awesum.  But we need to look at innovations like factory farming, the destruction of the extended family, or school-as-prison with a bit of a careful eye.

Comment #89: Punditus Maximus  on  10/24  at  05:02 PM

“some learn to self-medicate with more socially acceptable and easily available stimulants.”

Cigarettes are a common one.  Nicotine, having effects more similar to amphetamines than caffeine does, is much better for self-treating ADHD.  And once you have a routine that works for you, you’re not really going to want to take the months it takes to find another medication and dosage, even if your old routine is giving you cancer.  Most adults can’t take a few months off from being competent people with jobs.  I don’t see how a person could oppose early diagnosis and treatment of ADHD unless they don’t accept that it’s a real thing in the first place.

Comment #90: mamram  on  10/24  at  05:04 PM

I’ve been reading, and would recommend, Edward Shorter’s From Paralysis to Fatigue: A History of Psychosomatic Illness in the Modern Era regarding fashionable and over-diagnosed illnesses.  He makes the point, and I agree, that people with psychosomatic and popular illnesses are experiencing real distress that they truly can’t control.  But one feature of that illness is the conviction that one’s problem is physical.  I think a lot of people being “over-medicated” for one problem or another aren’t receiving excess treatment so much as the wrong treatment.

I’m not a doctor and so can’t speak to whether diagnoses made in childhood, like, ADHD and autism, are over-diagnosed or not.  But even if they are, that doesn’t mean that most of those kids are actually well.  They might have some other problem that’s been seen in the light of current medical preoccupations, with no wrongdoing on anyone’s part.  Nor is a “well” child who has a diagnosis pushed onto him by his elementary school principal or his mistaken parents a kid without problems, benefiting disproportionately from our (U.S.) medical system.  All of those kids—and of course kids who can’t get properly diagnosed and treated, as well—have a problem deserving of compassion and intervention.  No one in this medical system is being lavishly over-treated.  Those being treated for a non-existent medical problem are also not receiving appropriate help for their social or educational or resource problem.

I think that deprivation is a more appropriate topic for us to worry about than stewing over whether someone, somewhere gets more than they need (ha!).

Comment #91: themmases  on  10/24  at  05:05 PM

Ok, it was way unthread, but I don’t think I’m giving into either/or thinking or missing nuance here.

Americans see the doctor barely once a year on average.  And we pay far more for the privilege per capita.  Citizens of Japan, Sweden, Germany…all those soshulized medicine countries with longer lifespans see the doctor far more often…Japanese seniors average once a month.  And since it’s not paid for through for profit insurance, it costs less.

Americans ARE underserved medically.  You can see the results in our lifespans, infant mortality rates, etc.  Yes, some doctors over prescribe antibiotics, but that’s another symptom of the fact we don’t get enough appropriate care.  We get quacks prescribing antibiotics for viruses, holistic quacks, crunchy quacks, etc. Because appropriate care is rare and expensive here.

Comment #92: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  10/24  at  05:24 PM

The issue of whether or not that guy is a complete fucking quack is black and white. The issues that surround medicine and its use and overuse in contemporary America are quite complex.

Comment #93: witless chum  on  10/24  at  05:29 PM

“He makes the point, and I agree, that people with psychosomatic and popular illnesses are experiencing real distress that they truly can’t control.  But one feature of that illness is the conviction that one’s problem is physical.  I think a lot of people being ‘over-medicated’ for one problem or another aren’t receiving excess treatment so much as the wrong treatment.”

I am sure this is true a lot of the time, but I would be careful when applying it to ADHD specifically.  A lot of people diagnosed with ADHD want to exhaust all the “alternatives” before resorting to medication, and they end up in talk therapy which can make things worse.  At the very least it extends the time before a person tries something that has actually been proven effective. 

I am not referring to the above comment specifically, but I get the impression that a lot of people here, even those who have personal experience with ADHD, have bought into the idea that there is something less than ideal about using psychoactive drugs to treat a medical condition.  That it would be preferable somehow if people could sort out their problems in therapy, use self-control,establish a routine, or whatever else instead.  This attitude is so pervasive that it often becomes an obstacle for people who need real treatment.  But there is a massive body of evidence showing that medication is by far the most effective treatment for ADHD, and people are essentially going untreated because of cultural biases against psychoactive medication.  I wish people would consider this before spreading that attitude.

Comment #94: mamram  on  10/24  at  05:43 PM

Thanks, Punditus, for the ASS-umption that all of us can just snap our fingers and eat “organic and locally sourced.” Classism very much appreciated. Oh, and love the fat-shaming implications that we just “shove” food in our “pieholes.”

Comment #95: Nobody in Particular  on  10/24  at  05:47 PM

Organic bananas are not healthier or safer than traditional ones; they just cost more.

Thank you for citing no evidence to bring your woo into it, bananacat.

Organic foods are generally better for the workers who produce it.  Yes, there are washes and some pesticides (natural ones) which are used.  But yet… The practices don’t include massive addendums to the soil or waxing or dusting with toxic pesticides.  So they are safer.  By definition.  Yes, there are companies trying to weaken the organic label, but throwing up your hands is no use either.

And this after you argued apparently that aggravating ADD isn’t worth alleviating by attacking PM!  WTF.  He didn’t say it didn’t exist:  Just that poor conditions for all means poor diagnosis.  Diagnosis of psychological things aren’t black and white, they’re sliding scales.  Sliding scales we can’t necessarily see, either.

What happened to both-and?

For every kid diagnoses like Alara’s, there’s some number who need more or less intervention.  If the school was less drudgery and conformity… Wouldn’t it lower the stress on all of them, not just some?

Comment #96: Crissa  on  10/24  at  06:06 PM

@Nobody in Particular: yes, that’s another way it’s expensive to be poor.  I had to move to another fucking state just to get access to decent food, and that’s not remotely available to everyone.  In my defense, I’m sick enough to be applying for Disability, so I suppose I can compete in the Oppression Olympics.  Still, you are right a lot and it’s a good point and I’m glad you brought it up.

Those being treated for a non-existent medical problem are also not receiving appropriate help for their social or educational or resource problem.

Yes yes yes a thousand times yes.

 

Comment #97: Punditus Maximus  on  10/24  at  06:14 PM

I just got through the month of hell going off the smallest dose of Cymbalta.  Because I’m pretty sure I don’t need it anymore; the idea is that it was a chemical crutch, and I’ve learned behaviors and gotten myself into a better place (I own a house now, for instance) so I can deal without the crutch.  It worked well when I needed it, though the side-effects were… Not nice.  Mostly the oops-I-missed-a-dose ones.

But some medications aren’t crutches, they’re appliances, they’re prosthetics.  You can’t just learn your way around them, your body needs them.  I’m always going to need HRT during the majority of my life, for instance.  It’s not something my body is just going to spontaneously generate a new organ making them for me.

Disparaging talk-therapy is stupid, for instance, because even in situations where medication works better, both together work even better.  It’s like arguing you shouldn’t try the first step on the step-stool and only use the second of three because it’s twice as effective as the first step but the next one is only half as much more.  You should use the number of steps that gets you up the ladder to functioning.

Comment #98: Crissa  on  10/24  at  06:17 PM

I think the over-diagnosis of things like ADD and autism is because we want to treat it as if it were simple:  Slap the bandaid from the box on and let them back into the population.  But medicine and especially mental health isn’t that way.  What works in the vast majority of cases may not work in specific, and while it’s good to try it, it’s not good to mandate it.

Like I said before, many, maybe most, psychological diagnosis are actually thresh-holds on a sliding scale.  A tiny push left or right and the diagnosis doesn’t stick or sticks when maybe it shouldn’t.  There’s a high temptation to take a cheap outlet and slap it on like a band-aid without looking if this will only mask or aggravate the injury.

Comment #99: Crissa  on  10/24  at  06:26 PM

I know this wasn’t directed at me, but I have an opinion, so:

“If the school was less drudgery and conformity… Wouldn’t it lower the stress on all of them, not just some?”

Sure, but this is completely orthogonal to the medication issue.  Drugery and conformity do not cause ADHD, and eliminating them will not make ADHD go away.  I am sure everyone finds it easier to pay attention when information is presented in a novel and interesting way, but paying attention is still harder when you have untreated ADHD.

Comment #100: mamram  on  10/24  at  06:29 PM

A lot of double blind trials have been done on complementary therapies on at least a small scale; just at my teaching hospital in the last month, I’ve seen cinnamon for hypertension and blueberry drink for diabetes. The thing is, negative studies rarely seem to make it into the literature. I’ve done a couple myself with homeopathic remedies.

My life’s work has been spent in coordinating pharmaceutical trials, and I’ve worked in several different areas. I’ve seen some failures (drugs which never made it to market), a few amazing, lifechanging medications, and many that worked at least as well as what was already available but had a different side effect profile.

The kids and adults I currently work with have a genetic disorder which (in my lifetime) used to be lethal within the first year, but is now usually survivable into middle adulthood or later if they use the medications and therapies available to them, and there are more in progress. These folks and their families are excited to see what’s being developed.

Drugs: bring ‘em on. Kornfeld, you’re an idiot.

Comment #101: Jodi  on  10/24  at  06:35 PM

In fact, the most hardcore anti-pesticide guy I ever met was a chemist, and he told me that it was because of what he learned.  He’s the guy who got me to change soaps.

I don’t believe you know any chemists. Any toxicologist will tell you that everything is toxic depending on the dose. Pesticides have differing levels of toxicity to non-target organisms depending on mode of action, concentration, formulation, and physiology of the non-target. Organophosphates are nerve agents and have been used to kill both humans and bugs. On the other hand, what the hell do you think an IGR is going to do to you? Oh no I can’t pupate!

As an entomologist I am not anti-pesticide. Pesticides have their place in a good integrated pest management program. When used responsibly, sparingly, and in conjunction with non-chemical methods, pesticides provide protection from disease transmission, hunger, and economic loss. Sure, you hate pesticides. I think that’s because it’s similar to what’s going on with vaccines - nobody remembers what it was like back in the day when it was common to lose an entire harvest or have outbreaks of epidemic typhus - so nobody thinks about how pesticides have made life better. Just like people don’t understand how much whooping cough sucks, people also don’t understand the damage pests do. Termites and ants cause millions of dollars in structural damage. You might realize that insects infest crops, but that’s not where agricultural losses end. Stored product pests and pests of livestock not only cause millions in damage but food eaten by insects is food taken out of your mouth. Urban pests like roaches and filth flies can also render food unsuitable for human consumption, or close food service locations entirely. A million people die from malaria every year - one million. And that’s only the tip of the arthropod-vectored disease iceberg. Dengue, yellow fever, various types of encephalitis, several lesser-known but gross hemorrhagic fevers, several varieties of typhus, plague, tularemia, loa loa, filariasis, onchocerciasis, sleeping sickness, Lyme’s disease, leishmaniasis, etc. For most of these illnesses there is no vaccine, and for some there is no cure. Insects mechanically transmit typhoid, cholera, and dysentery. They will lay their eggs in your body and eat your living flesh. You put permethrin in your clothes and DEET on your skin because otherwise you will get bitten and get sleeping sickness and you will go crazy until you die. Right now millions of people across the developing world are on a pesticide regimen. They take regular doses of ivermectin both to control current filarial worm infections and because they are taking part in a worldwide program to eradicate these diseases. But I heard on the internet that some chemists somewhere were like “Pesticides bad!” so I guess we should totally halt that program like right now.

Comment #102: Entomologista  on  10/24  at  06:39 PM

“Disparaging talk-therapy is stupid, for instance, because even in situations where medication works better, both together work even better.”

As far as I know, there is no evidence that talk therapy (as opposed to cognitive behavioral therapy) is a valid treatment for ADHD, alone or combined with medication.  If you know of any, I would love to see it.  Until there is any evidence of this, talk therapy is a “first step” to ADHD treatment just like homeopathy is a “first step” in treating cancer.  I don’t see why an unproven treatment should be treated as a valid alternative to a (very!) proven treatment unless you think that the condition being treated isn’t particularly serious, or you think there is something wrong with taking psychoactive medication.

Comment #103: mamram  on  10/24  at  06:40 PM

I am not referring to the above comment specifically, but I get the impression that a lot of people here, even those who have personal experience with ADHD, have bought into the idea that there is something less than ideal about using psychoactive drugs to treat a medical condition.

I agree, and my first paragraph before was meant to be more about adults (I didn’t make such a great transition there—but I definitely do not think that medication for a diagnosis of ADHD is inappropriate or undesirable).  I’ve personally sought and received medical treatment for problems that turned out to be psychosomatic, and that colors my perspective on whether and how people misuse medical services.

To the extent that some people inappropriately medicalize their own experiences and sensations, I think that’s exacerbated by the inaccessibility of care in the U.S. system and the ever-smaller pool of acceptably “real” illness for which people can expect any allowance or even a response.  If people inappropriately pursue a particular diagnosis for themselves or their children, it’s probably to secure the legitimacy and accommodation that ought to be theirs by rights—not to attain some dubious advantage.  And just as doctors (and educators, and other authority figures I suppose) sometimes have their own motives to push a particular diagnosis: the opportunity to treat the person, to secure compliance through medical treatment, etc., they also sometimes have motives to withhold a diagnosis e.g. to avoid having to assist the person or validate a diagnosis they can’t treat or find controversial.

But the reason adults or their children sometimes receive the wrong treatment or diagnosis, or none at all, is not because they are frivolous or bad.  That narrative about people thoughtlessly over-consuming healthcare drove me crazy in the debates about insurance reform.

Comment #104: Matty  on  10/24  at  07:06 PM

Ah, the anti-vax people again. So inconvenient to have people like me remember what “normal childhood illness” was like in a family with three children 50 years ago.

Measles, mumps, chicken pox, tonsilitis, appendicitis, pneumonia (my brother went through three bouts), strep throat, scarlet fever, ear infections.

In addition to the usual colds, flu, poison ivy, poison sumac, broken arms, legs, and fingers, bee stings, wasp stings, and my brother’s epilepsy.

But remove from that list those illnesses that are now controlled by vaccination, and you’ve shortened the pain and suffering for children, and anxiety for parents, by a country mile.

Parents of the period wept with joy when the polio vaccine was finally widely available.

Because that was also no abstract fear: my father survived a childhood bout of polio, without crippling effect, but he was bed-ridden for six months.

Comment #105: judybrowni  on  10/24  at  07:18 PM

Well, when I was diagnosed with high blood pressure, I was running 20+ miles a week, biking to work every day, lifting twice a week, doing yoga regularly, and eating mostly fruits, veggies, and vegetarian proteins. I weighed 115 lbs and wore size 0. I was 29 years old. What the hell was I supposed to do other than take pills? The pills probably saved me from becoming the female Jim Fixx.

Yes, I really hate the way that the general public is woefully misinformed on “risk factors”, and the heaping dose of fat shaming doesn’t help.

I love lolcats and but I cringe every time I see diabeetus cat.

Lifestyle factors play a role in certain diseases, but they’re not the only factor.  Family history, age, etc also affect diseases.  I guess people cling the things that appear to be changeable because they like the feeling of control, or maybe the smug superiority of seeing someone get punished for perceived sins.  Plenty of people are fat and don’t have high blood pressure, joint pain, or diabetes.  Plenty of thin and active people get those diseases.  If someone gets high blood pressure and has a family history of it, the doctor won’t refuse to treat them out of some punishment for being born into the wrong family.  But if someone has high blood pressure and they are fat or a smoker, some doctors will refuse to treat them until they have an acceptable lifestyle.  It’s kind of like treating HIV for a hemophiliac, but refusing the same treatment to a drug addict or gay man.

Comment #106: bananacat  on  10/24  at  07:27 PM

Organic foods are generally better for the workers who produce it.  Yes, there are washes and some pesticides (natural ones) which are used.  But yet… The practices don’t include massive addendums to the soil or waxing or dusting with toxic pesticides.  So they are safer.  By definition.

There are trade-offs with regards to conventional and organic agriculture. I’ve read a study that shows the soil in organic cropland has a more diverse and healthier population of microbes. I’ve also read a study that shows more land is needed when farming organically because of lower yields. There is higher butterfly diversity in organic farms, but the use of Bt has saved millions of pounds of topsoil from erosion due to the adoption of no-till. It’s well known that organic farmers are benefiting from the use of Bt crops because target pest populations have been dramatically reduced across the board since their introduction. Thanks to Bt, we also use significantly less pesticide. While USDA registered organic farmers are prohibited from using certain things, conventional farmers are free to use organic methods and often do. I’m skeptical of the notion that all organic farmers in developing nations actually stick to organic practices - is there sufficient oversight, or do we expect them to obey out of the goodness of their hearts? As far as working conditions go, I suspect that if you’re a migratory farm worker it’s a horse apiece whether you pick fruit on a conventional or organic farm. Farmwork is farmwork. I mean, I doubt that one situation is all Grapes of Wrath and the other is all double rainbows. It’s true that if there is no use of pesticides that are harmful to humans then there can’t even be accidental exposure, so there’s that. But in the US, where pesticide use is strictly regulated by the federal government and pesticides are only applied by licensed professionals, there shouldn’t be a large number of acute exposures and almost no chronic exposure.

Comment #107: Entomologista  on  10/24  at  07:27 PM

One other thing I’ve noticed is that nobody gets flack for using a wheelchair, but everyone loves to make fun of people who use scooters, or who use a wheelchair only some of the time.

I have never understood this idea that unless your legs are paralyzed, then you’re just being lazy to ever use any kind of assistance.  Why is it so hard to accept that many people can walk short distances but not longer distances?  Is it based out of some weird fear of losing your own mobility without having a tragic accident story to go along with it?

And since there are so many people who think ADD and autism aren’t really serious, I wonder how hard it would be to find regular commenters here who don’t think much of other diseases.  So let’s see a show of hands.  Is there anyone here who thinks fibromyalgia, depression, OCD, or chronic pain conditions are just over-reactions or are over-medicalized?

Comment #108: bananacat  on  10/24  at  07:33 PM

Re: Comment #103: mamram on 10/24 at 06:40 PM

Do you have any studies that find that there is no benefits, alone or combined?

‘Cause I find it rather unlikely.  Saying talk therapy is futile is basically like saying a private tutor for any subject is futile.  It works because coping alone without resources is less successful than having help.

Comment #109: Crissa  on  10/24  at  07:36 PM

Re: Comment #107: Entomologista on 10/24 at 07:27 PM

I can’t answer that.  I’m not an epidemiologist with hundreds of thousands of dollars to study the efficacy of inspection regimes.  Certainly, they probably could do better - but I neither know if fair trade is always honest, either.  As a consumer, I have to trust that it is, and when I can, support attempts to study its efficacy.

As an individual, my ability to figure out if labels are lying to me is highly limited.  I can only trust them.

Comment #110: Crissa  on  10/24  at  07:41 PM

<blcokquote>But in the US, where pesticide use is strictly regulated by the federal government and pesticides are only applied by licensed professionals,</blockquote>I do, however, know this isn’t true.

Comment #111: Crissa  on  10/24  at  07:42 PM

Dernit, I hardly ever typo that…

Comment #112: Crissa  on  10/24  at  07:48 PM

#111: There are laws, many laws.

The Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act of 1947 and amendments: The purpose of this law is to provide for registration and regulation of pesticides to prevent adverse effects upon human health or the environment. This act requires all pesticides to be registered with the EPA. Pesticides are classified as general use, restricted use, or both. Pesticides classified as restricted use may only be applied under the direct supervision of a certified applicator. It is unlawful for any person to use the pesticide in a manner not stated on the label.

Occupational Health and Safety Act (1970): This act requires employers to provide pest control facilities which reduce exposure via proper ventilation and shower facilities. Safety equipment must be provided. Occupational monitoring to detect exposure must also be provided.

Clean Water Act (1947), Comprehensive Environmental Response Compensation, and Liability Act (1980), Endangered Species Act (1973): Basically, these laws mean it is the responsibility of pest management operations to operate in a way that protects the environment. This means that there are requirements for pesticide storage facilities (location, no drainage, spill control, etc) and it is our responsibility to ensure that all steps are taken to avoid contamination of people and the environment. And if we don’t, we are held liable.

I can’t speak to whether all individuals follow the law at all times, but I certainly hope they do.

Comment #113: Entomologista  on  10/24  at  08:18 PM

oldfeminist @ #75: I’m not saying it’s a good idea to have woo-based practitioners. I’m saying that it’s perfectly understandable, given the way many conventional practitioners treat patients with not-particularly-responsive chronic conditions, that a lot of patients would seek out woo-based practitioners who pay attention and act as if they’re thinking about something other than how quickly they can get to the next patient. And that’s the fault of the way conventional health care is set up (and the way society allows only people with “legitimate” ailments to feel lousy). Maybe it shouldn’t be the MD who is dispensing the sympathy and attention to the patient as someone with life problems as well as symptoms, but it should be someone, because otherwise sympathetic woo will win consistently.

And—because there aren’t as many double-blind (or even single-blind, or even unblinded multifactorial) studies as there should be, plenty of your woo dispensers honestly believe that what they’re dispensing will do their patients good. And thanks to the placebo effect, sometimes it does. Remember, there’s even a fair amount of discussion among MDs about the ways to ethically dispense placebos for some conditions.

Comment #114: paul  on  10/24  at  09:13 PM

Wow I am always shocked at the “pro-science” bent here.  I put that in quotes because I feel like any criticism of current medical science or any anti-chemical position is seen as tantamount to blasphemy and is met with intense vitriol.  Clearly modern medicine and modern technology has dramatically improved our health and longevity.  Anyone who thinks medicine is inherently bad is just wrong.  The HuffPo article is clearly hokum and pseudo-medicines like homeopathy are clearly playing on the confirmation bias of people (though to be fair it probably often taps into the placebo effect which is very powerful and very real http://boingboing.net/2011/10/05/animated-video-about-the-placebo-effect.html ). 

That doesn’t mean that all medicine is always good or that there aren’t still problems we could improve with the system.  But here people seem to be taking issue with the desire to ever show any concern about medicine and chemicals in general.  The idea of “evidence-based medicine” is fairly new and it wasn’t until the early 90’s that doctors really began pushing for evidence supporting many of the medical protocols they learn in medical school.  Medical doctors are the one’s saying this was a problem.

People here are making fun of the idea that “chemicals bad” but there is a lot of scientific data to suggest that the chemically polluted environment we live in is an actual danger to our health and that a desire to “get back to nature,” while overly simplistic in its approach, is based on reasonable fear of the poorly regulated exposure to chemicals we all face.  How about “chemicals potentially bad and some are causing health problems”.  That position is hardly anti-science. 

There is solid scientific evidence that exposure to environmental pollutants and commonly used chemicals are hurting kids, triggering all kinds of issues from asthma to ADHD and autism.  For example, any suggestion of an environmental trigger for autism is met here with cries of “anti-science. ” The actual science is saying otherwise - there is strong evidence that there is an environmental component to autism.  Food additives increase ADHD symptoms.  BPA disrupts the endocrine system. effects multiple hormone-response systems, and is likely having detrimental health effects on young children.  This isn’t just me talking, all of my examples above are based on research conduced and accepted through the National Institute of Health (e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20087185).  It is possible to be pro-science, pro-medicine, and think we should be making efforts to reduce the massive chemical exposure we are all experiencing. 

So yeah, based on the science available, I eat organic when I can and try to limit my exposure to chemicals in every way possible.

Comment #115: fizgigs  on  10/24  at  09:59 PM

But here people seem to be taking issue with the desire to ever show any concern about medicine and chemicals in general. 
Comment #115: fizgigs on 10/24 at 09:59 PM

No, basically commenters here are making fun of the idea that “chemicals” are scary.

Chemicals are everywhere.  Water is a chemical.  Lots of synthesized chemicals are the same as found in nature (not all obviously).

What is annoying is the immediate assumption that chemicals are evil and bad.  It is an unfortunate fact of life that not every chemical synthesized is tested to the degree that would prevent all negative effects on humans before they get used in everyday items like plastics.  We could maybe test everything extensively before use, but that would mean we’d have only a few new things to use every year, and they’d be quite expensive. 

The autism study abstract basically says “most autism isn’t caused by genetic factors, we see some of it is statistically related to environmental factors, so I propose it is environmental and here’s a plan for finding out what these environmental factors are.  I am placing my bets that it’s one or more synthetic chemicals children are exposed to on a regular basis.” 

No experiment, no evidence.  Just a hypothesis.  If this is your evidence that environmental pollutants (aside from the few they listed at the beginning) are triggering autism then it appears you’re over-reading.  Unless the article goes way beyond the abstract. 

It may be right that some synthetic chemical or chemicals are triggering autism, but then maybe it’s exposure to rat hairs or some common virus or bacterium we’re just not noticing.  Or the large number of children who were challenged not by chemicals but by living instead of dying as they might have in an earlier age.

Heck, I’m not saying chemicals can’t hurt you.  It’s the kneejerk reactions like “you should never eat anything you can’t pronounce” (and what if I took two semesters of organic and have no problem with the multisyllabics?  okay to drink benzene now?) that rubs me the wrong way.

We live in a world that is too complex for any one person to comprehend all of it any more.  It didn’t used to be that way except for things routinely ascribed to God or the gods.  Digging a hole and hiding in it isn’t really helpful, or even possible, for most people.

Comment #116: oldfeminist  on  10/25  at  12:42 AM

Science, which is just organized common sense, gets it from the right and the left. There ‘s plenty of muddled thinking on both ends of the spectrum. I’d like to think that this kind of medicine denial as just sad, but it is more pernicious than that. Modern medicine has made major leaps, but we tend not to recognize them. I remember the LA Times having a first page article on how old people suddenly started surviving heart disease problems with higher quality lifestyles in the late 60s. Apparently, the journalists involved hadn’t heard of that little known government program called Medicare. Even when medicine seems stalled, there have been serious changes. Look at AIDS. It started as a nightmare, guaranteed fatal disease. It’s still more deadly than diabetes, another reliable killer, but it’s treated as a chronic disesase. Look at childhood leukemia. Most cases are curable now. (PZ Meyers wrote a good article on it after he met a non-suicidal pediatric oncologist.)

Sometimes even progress looks bad. There was a big cancer scare in the 1930s, but the fact was that people were living longer, and living long enough to get cancer. The big scare in third world medicine is now non-infectious diseases. It’s great that they’re cancellng malaria studies where treated bed nets have cut the number of cases too much, but now they’ll have to worry about third world diabetes and high blood pressure. It’s definitely a changing world, and not always for the worse.

P.S. I believe in ADHD, but I also worry about giving kids drugs instead of recess to blow off steam, walkable neighborhoods, enough structure during the day and enough sleep at night. I’ve seen kids suffer ADHD like problems due to all of these, and I’ve seen them recover when given these things that kids need.

Comment #117: Kaleberg  on  10/25  at  12:54 AM

@Comment #94: mamram on 10/24 at 04:43 PM

... I get the impression that a lot of people here, even those who have personal experience with ADHD, have bought into the idea that there is something less than ideal about using psychoactive drugs to treat a medical condition.  That it would be preferable somehow if people could sort out their problems in therapy, use self-control,establish a routine, or whatever else instead.  This attitude is so pervasive that it often becomes an obstacle for people who need real treatment.  ...

It took me a long time to decide I was OK with taking psychoactive drugs to control my symptoms. Part of the problem, in my case, was that I went through years of taking meds that turned me into a zombie, or gave me OCD, before I found some that both worked and had few side effects. I would imagine that ADHD children, and their parents, might easily have experienced something similar. If that is the case, then their distrust of the medical profession might be a due to a misplaced sense of anger at the difficulties they have gone through.

Comment #118: atheist  on  10/25  at  06:29 AM

Comment #104: Matty on 10/24 at 07:06 PM

Sorry about that…  This comment was actually me.  My boyfriend was using Chrome to keep our passwords separate on my computer, until I switched over from Firefox and forgot to log him out of everything.

Comment #119: themmases  on  10/25  at  07:57 AM

atheist @118: Alas, I think the distrust is not entirely misplaced. Some people are lucky enough to have doctors who listen to their reports of side effects, or active and informed enough to insist on trying new medications until they find the one that’s right for them. But there are studies out there that show when a patient is lost to followup, many doctors assume that’s because their problem is fixed, rather than because the patient gave up on them. And some doctors seem to see not getting better on their preferred therapy as a failing of the patient. (Yeah, just a little anecdotal evidence)

I’m glad you finally found something that worked for you.

Comment #120: paul  on  10/25  at  08:52 AM

The tremendous rise in types and incidences of Cancer, to use an obvious example, have nothing to do with technology?

Sure, they have plenty to do with technology - mostly, with the technology that keeps people alive long enough to get cancer.

Everybody dies of something.

Comment #121: Dunc  on  10/25  at  10:12 AM

Geh… don’t have time to read all the comments, but this article really nailed a lot of things.

In particular, this guy’s idea that childhood illnesses are “no big deal.” Put him in a closed room with my mother and have her quiz him about that. The end result would probably be him being beaten to a bloody pulp (not really, she’s not a violent person). Her younger brother died when he was 4 because she was a carrier for diptheria, and they decided to switch cups. She never shares drinks with anyone to this day.

Yeah. No clue.

Comment #122: Matthew, Patron Saint of Affogato  on  10/25  at  10:30 AM

Punditus Maximus @89:
That’s what I said, having a regular schedule works for all of us in my family.  It helps almost everyone, ADD or not, because until there is a schedule, no strategies to cope can be tried, no tweaking of the schedule can be made, nothing.  You have to start with a regular schedule and work from there.  No ADD folks I have ever met or read about do well in chaos, most not even in moderate instability.
And yes, there are public schools that have totally f’ed up schedules.  That for my current town had a 6 day schedule over 5 day weeks for upper elementary when we moved there and for the 3 years after (at least).

Comment #123: helen w. h.  on  10/25  at  11:25 AM

mamram - I think there is good reason to minimize the use of any medication with side effects (that would be all of them) and step up from least problematic intervension.  If mild stimulants work, that doesn’t mean something 3 times as strong is better.  If behavior mod or coping mechanisms work, even the mild stim may be more than what is needed.  I’m all for people getting the medication they need, but I’m also all for minimizing the side effects they then have to deal with by reducing those to the best balance.  Unfortunately, finding that takes time and expert help, both are expensive and a bother, so too often it seems there is a jump straight to medication, IMO.  Often that helps, so at least that is something.

Comment #124: helen w. h.  on  10/25  at  11:39 AM

I don’t believe you know any chemists.

Well, then you’re calling me a liar and I guess we’re done at that point.  Yes, of course the dosage makes the poison.  But since there are almost no non-industry-funded studies on long-term effects on human beings, I guess we’ll have to enjoy our ignorance.

But in the US, where pesticide use is strictly regulated by the federal government and pesticides are only applied by licensed professionals,

But when you say ridiculous shit like this, you give me a lot of credibility.  I’m sorry, live in the country sometime.  Those laws are like the Pirate’s Code at best.

 

Comment #125: Punditus Maximus  on  10/25  at  01:25 PM

“I think there is good reason to minimize the use of any medication with side effects (that would be all of them) and step up from least problematic intervension.  If mild stimulants work, that doesn’t mean something 3 times as strong is better.  If behavior mod or coping mechanisms work, even the mild stim may be more than what is needed.”

This is true, especially for children, who also have more freedom to try different treatments than adults do (no jobs to lose, no rent to pay).  It’s not that I think everybody with ADHD needs to be medicated, I’m just not okay with unproven “alternatives” being treated as though they are preferable over treatments that have been proven effective. 

It’s also worth pointing out that while certain alternatives may not have side effects per se, they can have the side effect of leaving you with a lot of the symptoms that you had in the first place.  I’m not sure it makes a difference if I am at less than 100% because of a side effect, or because my ADHD isn’t being managed as well as it could be.

Comment #126: mamram  on  10/25  at  01:39 PM

Smikey, 4:

Is Arianna H. a bigtime altmed believer?

Yup

Well, What?, 84:

What benefit is there in denying that people have autism or ADD or whatever.

A few that pop to mind:
• cost savings on expensive interventions, both medical and educational
• a handy way to avoid confronting a chronic problem affecting oneself or a loved one
• quick and easy feelings of smug superiority

I think a number of autism denialists portray ASD people as superior, and people who believe in the existance of ASD as trying to grind them down and force them to conform. Because we all know there’s nothing worse than conforming (protip: do not give anyone who sincerely believes that last bit a driver’s license).

Crissa, 98:

But some medications aren’t crutches, they’re appliances, they’re prosthetics.  You can’t just learn your way around them, your body needs them.

The example I use is glasses. You can learn to adapt. You can squint. You can even say “my level of visual acuity is my normal and I resent you demanding I comply with yours.” But I never see the same level of negativity directed towards people who wear glasses as I see directed towards people who believe in mental illness, or choose to treat it with medication.

Comment #127: Hershele Ostropoler  on  10/25  at  03:07 PM

It is an unfortunate fact of life that not every chemical synthesized is tested to the degree that would prevent all negative effects on humans before they get used in everyday items like plastics.  We could maybe test everything extensively before use, but that would mean we’d have only a few new things to use every year, and they’d be quite expensive.

I would settle quite happily for serious testing of every chemical that I am likely to consume in my food or water (in nontrivial amounts) without knowing it.  That would keep the expense where it belongs, on the public and/or the persons who will make a lot of money if things turn out well.  I understand that we’re occasionally going to get screwups like bottled water engendering gastric cancer due to the outgassing of the plastics used to contain it.  But then we have to actually jump on those once that’s clear.  This business of shoveling stuff we already know is actually really bad for us down our gullets is much less nuanced than the actual hard decisions of balancing real technological advances that make us richer against unknown risks of health issues.

Statement of bias: I suffer from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and “random environmental thing” is still the number one hypothesis for these dysautonomic disorders.

 

Comment #128: Punditus Maximus  on  10/25  at  03:11 PM

mamram:

I have ADD and have found talk therapy to be a much more effective intervention than medication, especially since I have ADD and often don’t think to take my medication.  (It also makes me a less attentive driver, since my attention can focus on fewer variables, which bothers me a lot and feels dangerous.)

Comment #129: hideandseek  on  10/25  at  03:43 PM

The ADD medication side effects that were most problematic in my family experience (sister, brother and son as well as self) were: the zombie effect mentioned previously by someone else; mood swings; depression; possible liver damage; high blood pressure; hypertension; OCD symptems, and not being able to control emotional impulses-outbursts (bursting out in tears over mild frustration is not a good trade off for being able to pay attention a little better and sit still for slightly longer periods, IMO, but especially not for a 5th grade boy in the US).

Comment #130: helen w. h.  on  10/26  at  08:44 AM
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