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Next entry: Boobquake Previous entry: Friday Genius Ten “Unpretty” Edition

I Think My GOP’s Gone Crazy

Marc Ambinder asks if conservatives have gone mad.

Our black president with a Kenyan father asks the conservative Arizona legislature what the fuck they were thinking giving law enforcement carte blanche to ask for your papers or your life.

This has been another edition of Asking The Motherfucking Obvious.

 

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 05:18 PM • (40) Comments

Listen.  This shit is important.  What happens if I’m driving down the street and I see someone who looks excessively tan or appears to be wearing ethnic apparel or otherwise offends my delicate sensibilities.  That person might try to hurt me or steal my job.

We need to throw all suspicious people in jail immediately, for the safety of the general public.

But, in our haste to combat this looming threat, and in anticipation of the millions of dollars Arizona likely intends to spend in it’s race to enforce a policy that amounts to “Lynch the Brown People”, I do hope that no one in Arizona is forced to suffer under the undo and cumbersome burden of a reckless and out of control state government intent on doing serious harm to individuals, businesses, and families by going so far as to raise anybody’s taxes.

I’m a big proponent of small, limited government, after all.

Comment #1: Zifnab25  on  04/23  at  05:50 PM

The conservatives don’t think. It is strictly stimulus-response with them.

Comment #2: Kwillow  on  04/23  at  05:58 PM

I keep being confused by these posts—was there ever a time when conservatives would have possibly reacted differently to a black man being elected President?

Comment #3: Punditus Maximus  on  04/23  at  06:11 PM

Wasn’t it the Republicans who were recently so concerned about a national drivers’ license program because the federal government would get too powerful?

How is this different?

Comment #4: I Heart Puppies  on  04/23  at  06:15 PM

So, how long before they have Arizona law enforcement setting up checkpoints, especially in “brown” neighborhoods?  Complete with a <strike>Gestapo</strike> police officer asking each driver for their “Peppers, pleese…” in a German accent?

It’s been obvious to me for some time there are a lot of Americans who would welcome a police state with open arms, provided the right group of people (Hispanics/Latinos/Blacks/Libruls/Democrats/The-Poor) was on the receiving-end of Big Brother’s attention.  Our easy acquiescence to airport security theater, our blasé attitude toward revelations of widespread government wiretaps, the unquestioned invention of “Fourth Branch” and other Constitutional shredding, and our quick acceptance of the “necessity” of torture all provide proof of our readiness to embrace the “right” sort of dictator.

So Arizona is a little ahead of the curve — that doesn’t mean plenty of other states won’t view Arizona’s experiment with jealousy and anticipation…

Comment #5: MikeEss  on  04/23  at  06:17 PM

This could cause the issue to heat up to full boil on the national level, with untold consequences for the midterm elections.

Man, this is what I’ve been waiting for. If Obama comes out aggressively on the “immigration” issue and focuses on a real path to citizenship (a-la Ted Kennedy), it’ll make the wedge between the Teabaggers and the GOP establishment seem like peanuts. Which is what I’ll be munching on as I enjoy the spectacle of cheap-labour neoCons fighting against the Know-Nothing bigot base that no doubt drove this lunacy:

The effort in Arizona would require anyone with brown skin suspected of being in the country illegally to produce “an alien registration document” or other proof of citizenship.

Fixed that, because there’s zero chance an Arizona cop is going to come up to a pasty white guy like me to demand “ihre papiere, bitte.” For people who don’t like “old Europe,” these conservatives are oddly willing to embrace its more odious traditions.

Comment #6: Gracchus.  on  04/23  at  06:42 PM

Gracchus, I think there’s always a chance they’ll ask some white people for their papers—otherwise, they run the risk of giving even more appearance that they’re racially profiling.

Of course, when the white people get thrown in jail—because NO ONE carries their birth certificate around with them!—all of a sudden, it’ll be the Most Unfair Thing Ever.

Comment #7: Scott  on  04/23  at  07:00 PM

Gracchus, I think there’s always a chance they’ll ask some white people for their papers—otherwise, they run the risk of giving even more appearance that they’re racially profiling.

Oh, undoubtably.  I have no problem believing some university will get raided and a bunch of exchange students rounded up.  Or some alabaster homeless people will be rounded up and thrown in jail.

The beauty of the law is in it’s equal opportunity.  Anyone - white or black, young or old, male or female - who can’t afford a lawyer and gets caught without his wallet is open to being swept up.  I’m surprised the protesters rallying against the bill weren’t all carded before the Governor’s ink was dry.  I won’t be surprised to hear about police officers at polling booths in low income Democratic areas, either.

Comment #8: Zifnab25  on  04/23  at  07:12 PM

So if you are a citizen, what “proof” are you supposed to carry with you?  Your driver’s license is not proof of citizenship.  Social Security card is closer, but those are sometimes issued to non-citizens, too.  Are you supposed to carry your birth certificate with you at all times?

My parents live in Arizona, so maybe I should ask them if I need to get a passport before I come visit next Christmas, just in case.

Comment #9: Mnemosyne  on  04/23  at  07:17 PM

This law will ne overturned, if not with federal immigration reform than by a big fat lawsuit. It’s clearly unconstitutional.

Comment #10: Ben D.  on  04/23  at  07:39 PM

How is this different?

Its always different when it happens to whitey. They favor gun rights, for example. Gun control was enacted in California when white people got scared of Black Panthers carrying automatic weapons.

Rights for me, not for thee - the conservative motto.

And yeah, election day we will be seeing plenty of arrests. I hope this will have a happy ending, like Prop 187 in California, ie the Make Hispanics into Democrats Act of 1994.

Comment #11: bay of arizona  on  04/23  at  08:04 PM

Mnemosyne:

A birth certificate is nice, but there’s no way to prove it’s your birth certificate. Even if it matches all your other ID, that’s just circumstantial. A passport is pretty much it, I think.

And of course this is Arizona, where the families of lots of the people with darker skin have been living there since well before those east-coast upstarts moved in. All I can see this as is a very large conspiracy to violate 18 USC 242, and I think it should be dealt with as such.

Comment #12: paul  on  04/23  at  09:02 PM

A passport is pretty much it, I think.

Unless you’re the President, in which case you have to carry the original vault copy of your birth certificate to prove something already verified by multiple federal agencies.  After all, the Department of State must be in on the conspiracy if they accepted his obviously fake Hawaiian “certificate” “of” “live” “birth” and gave him a passport.
/birther

Comment #13: Mnemosyne  on  04/23  at  09:06 PM

They didn’t give him a “real” passport, they gave him one of those gummint-official passports.

Comment #14: paul  on  04/23  at  09:08 PM

This shit is going to play havoc with AZ tourism - I’m surprised the outcry hasn’t started yet.  I mean, why go to AZ, since the penalty for going may well get you thrown in jail at worst, a missed flight because of suspicion at best.

ANd aren’t passports like $100 these days?

Comment #15: phylosopher  on  04/23  at  09:42 PM

“if they accepted his obviously fake Hawaiian “certificate” “of” “live” “birth” and gave him a passport”

I really don’t get this. As far as I know that certificate of live birth which almost exactly resembles the one that Obama offered is about the only thing I CAN get anymore from my state since they computerized all the records and destroyed the originals. It’s the only thing I’ve been able to get from the state for the kid at all.

(And since both I and the kid have passports . . . well, the federal government accepts it.)

Comment #16: hp  on  04/23  at  09:43 PM

The Goopers have been stark raving bonkers for 30 years, ever since Zombie Reagan ate their barains.

Comment #17: DrDick  on  04/23  at  09:44 PM

I hated 187.  I had to get a doctor’s note from a local doctor before they’d even accept my out-of-state papers.  Of course, that portion of the law still exists for transpeople, btw.

And transpeople can’t get passports exactly regularly, although the administration has been ordering that process changed.

You do know that illegality of entry to the US is entirely an ephemeral matter, right?  You could have a birth certificate or a social security number and still be a foreign citizen?

Ugh.  And driver’s licenses are dumb, because we still need to make sure people who enter the country and driver here are licensed - and do we need to check their work visa every time?  What if they aren’t working, but are just delivering?  Or between jobs/semesters and consequently, visas?  Or on a vacation visa?  All these visas, expire, too, do we want them coming back every time their visa expires?  What if their visa is cancelled?  Or lost?

Comment #18: Crissa  on  04/23  at  10:47 PM

How do you report a stolen purse/wallet?

Are you supposed to go to the police?  The very people who will lock you up for not having your papers?

What about identity theft victims?  How do they prove themselves legit?

Fuck this shit.  This is a straight violation of the 4th Amendment.

I will never understand how people who claim to worship St. Ronnie and his Great Communicatory skillz that destroyed an Evil Empire…turn right around and want to establish that failed communist state here.

Honestly, W turned us into USSR-lite, and this shit just takes it a bit further.  This from “small government” types.  This from “get the government off my back” types.

Don’t leave home without your papers.

In America.

What the ever-living FUCK?!

Comment #19: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  04/23  at  10:58 PM

“Honestly, W turned us into USSR-lite, and this shit just takes it a bit further.  This from “small government” types.  This from “get the government off my back” types.”

That’s because the fullest expression of the sentiment is “Get the government off my back — and put it on yours…”

Comment #20: MikeEss  on  04/23  at  11:07 PM

Arizona’s a popular spot for retirees.
Where are they going to deport all those elderly white folks to? New Jersey?

More seriously, what about the reservation Navajos and Hopi? Does anyone know if they get the same paperwork that most people do, or do they rely on midwives and not always get birth certificates? Plenty don’t have vehicles, and wouldn’t have driver’s licenses. They are the poorest of the poor.
In short, are the Arizona-fucking-police going to deport Native Americans? The ones who are so much more native than the rest of us? This is making me feel crazy, like I want to abandon everything else and camp on legislators’ doorsteps until it’s fixed.

Comment #21: Samantha Vimes  on  04/23  at  11:16 PM

Does anyone know if they get the same paperwork that most people do

They have even more.  In order to be eligible for federal or tribal services on the reservation (the only kind available) requires all adults to have a federal document called a “Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood.”  This proves that they are actually Indians (and you cannot legally claim to be one without it) and, by extension, Americans.

Comment #22: DrDick  on  04/23  at  11:37 PM

In her book Nickel & Dimed, Barbara Ehrenreich said she and her fellow waitresses would add charges to the bill of a couple or party that seemed foreign, because many foreign customers were unaccustomed to giving American-size tips. In effect, it amounted to a penalty for speaking English with an accent. Up until now, this was probably among the biggest indignities visited on people with foreign accents.

Now they have to worry about being snatched off the street and locked up.

The GOP: Helping Sustain Bigotry Since 1968.™

Comment #23: Bitter Scribe  on  04/23  at  11:37 PM

This is fantastic news for John McCain.

Comment #24: Yamara  on  04/24  at  12:09 AM

It won’t stand up to constitutional challenges because the police need to have reasonable suspicion.  In an ironic way, the law actually grants the police the right to enforce citizenship rules as they see fit but in most cases ICE handled any serious cases.  Since Citizenship is granted by the Federal government the right to detain anybody on suspicion of illegal status can simply be ordered to be retained by the ICE alone which would negate the law completely. 

Though, I see this all coming down to a wealthier Hispanic person getting arrested for not being able to prove citizenship at a traffic stop and then suing the state for wrongful imprisonment.

Comment #25: Xeranar  on  04/24  at  02:09 AM

Samantha Vimes @ 22: Where are they going to deport all those folks to?

They just send them out of country, they don’t always make sure to send them to the right place.  A Tennessee man (you know, from the US) got sent to Mexico, their most popular place, but people have ended up all over, including Syria.

Comment #26: Crissa  on  04/24  at  02:55 AM

When are they just going to cut to the chase and post bounties on Hispanics (or their scalps), like they were coyotes or other dangerous animals?  (I write dark SF, and in my dystopia Texas does exactly that. I hate being precognitive sometimes)

I can’t say I’m surprised that “Being in Public while Brown” is now a crime. This is the state that embraces Sheriff Joe, after all.

Comment #27: Angelia Sparrow  on  04/24  at  06:58 AM

Wasn’t it the Republicans who were recently so concerned about a national drivers’ license program because the federal government would get too powerful?
How is this different?

It’s different cause in the case of a national driver’s license, even the white people would have get one.  In this case, it’s only those brown people who have to worry.  Which is as God intended!

Comment #28: speedbudget  on  04/24  at  09:02 AM

Living in a country where not looking local entitles the police to harass you ... yeah, I kind of knew this law would be a bad idea from the first time I heard about it.  “Riding a bicycle while foreign” is basically a crime, and you are guilty until they can verify your bike isn’t stolen.  Also, reporting a crime or returning a lost wallet is grounds for checking your papers.  Huzzah. 

This is your future, Arizona.  I guess now would be the time for people of color or anyone with a tan (which I would assume is a lot of people in AZ) to move.  But maybe that’s just exactly what they want ...

Comment #29: BonAppetit  on  04/24  at  01:07 PM

This starts as an excuse to harass brown people, but it’ll spread.  It’ll be used to get ‘legal’ searches of anybody suspected of anything - just pretend you suspect them of not having their papers.  It’ll be used to suppress dissent - surely all those protesters out there don’t have their papers, so round them up.  It’ll be used to intimidate the ‘wrong’ kind of voters - who brings their passport to vote, after all?  The ‘wrong’ sort of people in your neighborhood - just have the cop check their papers.  Cops don’t like those damned kids playing frisbee in the park - papers check.  It’s so clearly unconstitutional and immoral that Arizona should be embarrassed just to have conceived it, let alone passed it and signed it into law.

Comment #30: libdevil  on  04/24  at  01:44 PM

The ironic thing is that the people who hate these kind of laws like the plague are the people who are supposed to enforce them—the cops.  If you’re actually trying to do your job and find lawbreakers (and a lot of cops are), then having entire groups of people unwilling to talk to you about, say, the murder on their street because you’ll have to arrest them for being here illegally means that you don’t clear that murder.  Having a bunch of unsolved crimes on the books looks really bad on your record, if nothing else.  Plus now you’re going to end up with all kinds of stupid car chases as people who committed a very minor traffic violation try to flee because they’re either here illegally or don’t have their papers with them.  Every time they try to implement something like this in California, the police union is one of the major groups that fight against it, because they know what a giant clusterfuck it would be.

Sheriff Joe and petty tyrants like him are going to love this, but they’re about the only ones.

Comment #31: Mnemosyne  on  04/24  at  02:00 PM

So, if I was a brown person, would I have to have the long form passport? Inquiring minds want to know!

Comment #32: JoeBuddha  on  04/24  at  02:54 PM

NO ONE carries their birth certificate around with them!
Comment 8—Scott

I do. In case I decide to run for president.

Comment #33: Hershele Ostropoler  on  04/24  at  05:44 PM

“Papers, please”.

This is not the forum and I am not the writer to articulate my growing conviction that a substantial minority of the population should have no franchise. There is about 30% of the population that is in-the-bone brain-damaged viscious and prone to evil. It’s not that they don’t agree with me..hardly anyone does, you, gentle reader, most probably included. The problem is that they will side with power and terror every single time. It induces a systematic bias for evil into what all classical thinkers from Locke to Marx to Habermas (to feminist thinkers that I can’t call up to mind) assume is in principle an open agora of communication, biased perhaps by class or gender issues, but otherwise neutral. It isn’t. I have no idea what can be done about it.

Comment #34: PIGL  on  04/24  at  09:08 PM

This law will ne overturned, if not with federal immigration reform than by a big fat lawsuit.

Wasn’t there a problem with challenging some of these laws on constitutional grounds, namely that one must have “standing”?  Such that until a white person really is harmed by this law, they can’t even get it reviewed in court?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I vaguely recall that being a serious impediment to challenging both the warrant-less wiretapping and the PATRIOT Act gag orders.

Comment #35: boring old dude  on  04/25  at  08:40 AM

I believe if you’re brown and you’re swept up in this insanity, that’d give you standing right there.

Comment #36: JoeBuddha  on  04/25  at  10:39 AM

Let me restate: If I was a brown-skinned citizen and I was thrown in jail because I didn’t have fifteen pieces of ID, or I was continually harassed by the cops, you bet I’d have standing.

Comment #37: JoeBuddha  on  04/25  at  10:44 AM

#3: Mmm, some of them think. They’re the rich ones who forged this unholy alliance of media that spoke in perfectly pitched code-words to a populist audience that turned out to be a lot more unhinged than they imagined. Let’s face it, it’s the perfect constituency - believes more or less whatever you tell it to once you establish yourself as One Of The Boys - and *any* politician would have to be retarded not to pursue it. The only risk is that the rabid, crazy dog might slip the leash.
#32: Well, investigators are going to hate it, especially in homicide, but beat cops in Arizona might decide it’s the best thing ever because it lets them bang yet another class of heads.

Comment #38: Soren  on  04/26  at  07:50 AM

having entire groups of people unwilling to talk to you about, say, the murder on their street because you’ll have to arrest them for being here illegally means that you don’t clear that murder.  Having a bunch of unsolved crimes on the books looks really bad on your record, if nothing else.
Comment 32—Mnemosyne

Presumably when crime goes up and closure rates go down, this will be said to be because undocumented aliens aren’t being persecuted enough.

Comment #39: Hershele Ostropoler  on  04/26  at  02:21 PM
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