What is happening on Iran is what they dreamed the Tea Parties would be.

Except for, you know the bullets and blood and the real dicator and all

Pretty much - and remember, they organized by Twitter, too.

The place where I agree with the overarching opinion of #iranelection here at Pandagon is that we have to be extremely fucking vigilant about how the conservatives frame all of this, and what the takeaway is there.

Not so much because I think impotent morons like Jonah Goldberg are going to successfully convince a Democratic administration (and easily the most liberal administration on Teh Moozlum Qweschin basically ever) to intervene militarily in Iran.  More because I think that, if the protests fail and Ahmadinejad and Khamenei are back with a vengeance, this is going to be the issue that reframes the Dems Are Soft On Terror/Muslims/Brown People meme. 

If the autocrats win, it’s going to be extremely hard for the Obama administration to frame the Iranian government as worth dialoguing with.  His whole approach as laid out in the recent Cairo speech is going to hit a major hurdle.  That is the vulnerability.  That is where we need to keep an eye on our various rightwing nutbags.  Because if they can all converge on that idea, while I’m pretty sure we won’t actually go to war in Iran, it’s certainly going to bring back all the Bombing = Good, Diplomacy = Bad, They Hate Us For Our Freedom rhetoric (from the opposition, at least, though you know the more milquetoast liberals will internalize it).  It could easily be a point for them to find their footing on.

I’m much more worried about that than about the eternal tarnish on my soul for wearing the same color t-shirt as Andrew Sullivan.

God, how they love danger.  It gets them all tickly inside!  As long as they themselves are not in any actual danger. 

Seriously, though, it’s clear to me that these guys have never played chess, because they never seem to be able to think even one move in advance.  Let’s see…if the US comes out in force, rhetorically or otherwise, in favor of the protesters, and the United States is widely despised for its interference in this part of the world, then the effect on the ultimate success of the protesters will be….?  My 12-year-old (a pretty good chess player) could see what the problem is with that.

>Seriously, though, it’s clear to me that these guys have never played chess

stop thinking that high level conservatives are stupid, jesus christ

which is more likely

1: foreign policy experts actually think that waving our collective dicks at iran will fix all of its problems

2: hawks need a boogeyman to scare idiots with and are served well by poor iran/usa relations

hint: max boot openly fucking said 2 and it was covered on this blogffffffffffffff

But most of those people twittering and protesting over there are brown and some are even women, obviously they need the guidance only American neocons can provide.

the United States is widely despised for its interference in this part of the world,

Y’see, from my perspective across the pond, I don’t think American conservatives get this.  The world IS America to them.  People outside America just aren’t quite real.  They are like characters in a story of America’s telling.  And in that story, America is the home of the brave and the land of the free.  These fictional characters must comply with the story being told and eventually understand that.  If only they are bombed and invaded enough, they will come to realise it was for their own good.  And of course “their own good” is the American conservative definition of that phrase - i.e. under the tumb of American hegemony, which can only be a good thing, since America is good.

I tells ya, it’s more than a little annoying to be perceived as a less-than-real being, and I’m in a country perceived to America’s ally.  I can only imagine how angry I’d be if I was a citizen of a country being actively meddled with.  I also have to say that American liberals do it a bit too.

They are like characters in a story of America’s telling.

This gives the US war-chearleaders too much credit; to them foreigners are more like mobs in a video game.

LOL This is funny.  This is so them.

Here’s the deal.  In one sense, this is a game.  The game is to say anything and do anything to stay in power and accumulate more power.

The part where this isn’t a game is that this power isn’t used in some metaphorical sense, it’s used to suck the economy/people/country/state/city of money.

It really isn’t deeper than that.

Fools such as loadpants may or may not be involved past the point that he had to do something to collect his legacy payments.  “Commentary” just happened to work well enough.

What the conservatives/republicans/christianists say is never actually about the issue at hand.  It’s always about how to further solidify their position.

That’s one reason why I find our democratic congress such a disappointment.  They’ve adopted the same disgusting philosophy.

Seriously, though, it’s clear to me that these guys have never played chess, because they never seem to be able to think even one move in advance.

They’re more like the chess-playing child who thinks he’s “discovered” Philidor. Not quite stupid, but not smart or educated by a long shot. Unfortunately, there are a great many Americans who are either impressed by the “child prodigy,” or willing to take the word of others that they should be impressed.

Y’see, from my perspective across the pond, I don’t think American conservatives get this.  The world IS America to them.

Unfortunately, it’s not just American conservatives. There are a whole lot more politically apathetic Americans who live in this provincial fantasyland, and more than any political party it’s the MSM that pursues their custom. Compare CNN domestic (which didn’t provide substantive coverage on the election and subsequent protests until Sunday evening) vs. CNN international to see this dynamic in action.

They are like characters in a story of America’s telling.

But do they understand that when we blow their hands off, we’re doing it to liberate them?

The people can do what Obama can not.  Organize demonstrations in support of Iran.  Let everybody know.

Global support can help.  People marching in Paris or Peoria will make a difference if you post photos.

Please stop posting links to Jonah Goldberg.  I’m too stupid not to follow them and read whatever he’s written.  Then my head starts to hurt and my eyes water.

STOP ME BEFORE I CLICK AGAIN

“Please stop posting links to Jonah Goldberg.  I’m too stupid not to follow them and read whatever he’s written.  Then my head starts to hurt and my eyes water.”

...this just demonstrates how important personal responsibility is.  You can’t expect The State (or the Pandagon writers) to protect you from all forms of harm.

Admittedly, Jonah Goldberg is not only a fool, an idiot, and an active menace to our political discussions, but he also arguably decreases America’s average IQ by a few 1/100s of a percent each year he sticks around and opens his mouth.  But since we live in a multi-cultural society, often peopled by people who are incapable of any logic or reason, disgraces like J-Go are the price we pay…

Everything is always all about them.  Always.  That’s why they try to force their religion on us. It’s why they hate gay people.  It’s why they oppose abortion.  Of course the U.S should get involved in the situation in Iran.  These folks cannot conceive of a situation in which they are not directly involved and cannot control it.

Global support can help.  People marching in Paris or Peoria will make a difference if you post photos.

Did you read a single world of Jesse’s post or the comments Localman ?

Iranians are the citizen journalists that conservatives always dreamed of being, sidestepping the dreaded Reuters and New York Times and bringing exciting news with bravery and danger and hopefully some titties to a world who will stand up, take notice, and then eventually worship them as the blogger-kings they are.

FTW!

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh

Here’s a blast from the past (above link to an old NYorker article by Seymour Hersh). Things that make you go HMMMM. 

I remember July of 2007, and what was going on with the Fifth Fleet at the time (I work for the Navy).  The Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran drums were beating real hard, and then suddenly - almost overnight - the Fleet was turned around and the neocon think tanks started gassing about how “Presidential” Ms. Clinton was, something I found very weird until I looked under the rug and saw the roaches scattering (huge mass defection from the Bushista camp).  Then I watched in dismay as the roaches, both overt and Stealth (the Clintonistas and the Guiliani camps being the Coke vs. Pepsi origially presented for our consumption) set up a fortified encampment within the Democratic party.

Fast forward to today:  The battle between the “bomb Iran” camp and the “are you effing kidding me” camp is STILL huge within the upper eschelons in the military, and by huge I mean career-ending huge.  From where I sit (over here in some very cheap seats) all I can say is:  I’m not “going in.  Thar be dragons.”  I’m thinking a “color revolution” within Iran might be the Neocons’ Plan B.

Katherine—I can tell you from extensive experience that conservatives most certainly do not consider women or brown people full human beings AND that they have no idea that this is so.  It’s like that scene at the end of “A Time to Kill” (an otherwise pleasant enough movie) where McConaughey ends his summation with, “Now imagine she’s white.” 

That’s the kind of help these people need, and they can usually sustain it for a good fifteen minutes.

Global support can help.  People marching in Paris or Peoria will make a difference if you post photos.

I want you to explain to me, carefully, how this would help, using the events of Tienamen Square as a guide.

LocalMan, you’ll need some giant puppets for that.

LocalMan, you’ll need some giant puppets for that.

Just take off the stars-and-stripes top hat from the “Eeeevil Uncle Sam” puppet, with its mangy white beard and depraved countenance. Slap on a black turban and robe, and you’re set!

To be fair to LocalMan, though, he said “The people can do what Obama can not,” which is different from the wingnut version: “The people can do what Hussein Obama will not.” I don’t think that grassroots street demonstrations in the West are very effective, but in this case I doubt they’ll do much harm.

I want you to explain to me, carefully, how this would help, using the events of Tienamen Square as a guide.

One of the problems is that Westerners are placing this more in the context of Wenceslas Square 1989, mainly because they’re looking for themselves in the protesters. Tienamen Square 1989 isn’t exactly analogous, either, but given that the protesters are opposed by thugs operating on behalf of the true-believer fantasists who hold power, it’s close enough.