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Next entry: Vagina-based investment opportunities abound! Previous entry: Scott Walker the next Tom Delay?

Imaginary union demons

Check out this video that Digby posted, particularly the footage starting about 13 seconds in.

Look at the images in that video.  Take note of what people are wearing, the way the trees look (especially the palm tree), and the ground.  Compare it to this picture of the protests from the Madison paper.

Notice a difference?  Goodness, when the Fox cameras show up, there’s a lot less snow and a lot more leaves on the tress in Wisconsin!  And palm trees!  They must bring warmth and sunshine with them. 

Of course, that deception is far from the only one going on in this short clip.  There’s also the ongoing right wing narrative that The Left has infinite resources to bus “professionals” in, a lie that, as I noted yesterday, is reminiscent of Mubarak claiming that the protests against him were being directed by foreigners, particularly from Qatar.  The lie depends on an audience that is completely sheltered from reality, because anyone who even knows a liberal probably knows that the last thing our side has is the financial infrastructure to pull such a thing off.  Of course, I’m sure there’s plenty of people there in solidarity, but I’m also hard-pressed to think of why that would be so wrong.  I wasn’t aware that there was a new rule in American politics that we can’t support our fellow citizens when they fight for what we believe in.  If that’s the new rule, then the right better start explaining quickly how they’re going to start denouncing the very existence of churches. 

But all this—-the lies about violence, the lies about foreign influence—-is really going straight up to a larger narrative, which is that protest is wrong because it’s indecorous.  Certainly, that’s been the theme of Ann Althouse’s meltdown.  I want to point out that I haven’t seen any liberals suggest that Tea Partiers are in the wrong just for hitting the streets and waving signs.  I’m sure it’s happened some time, somewhere—-people can be really stupid, sure—-but the universal complaint on the right is that protesting is icky if liberals do it.  At the most, liberals complained that Tea Partiers were shouting down their opponents, because they’re unwilling to hear their arguments. Also, there was mockery for Tea Partiers being stupid, and waving signs that were illiterate or illogical. And mockery because they’re so clueless, calling themselves “teabaggers” without doing a simple Google search to find out if that word had another meaning that hipper people—-and by “hip”, I mean someone who’s purchased a record that has come out in the past 40 years—-might already know.  I did see many liberals longingly complain that our side won’t get out in the streets like that, a complaint I didn’t truck with, because I think protests are best if they’re targeted and meant to be effective, and not just demonstrations of one’s willingness to leave the house to prove that you’re morally superior.  Once a protest has value, I don’t see that we have a big problem getting people out.  The Planned Parenthood rally I spoke at had three times the projected numbers.

Here’s the thing:  I don’t think Walker is getting shouted down.  Walker just looks stupid, because he is stupid and he doesn’t have a real argument. If you strip away Fox News lies, what you’re left with is a bunch of people who are just holding firm.  They’re not shouting anyone down.  They’re just not giving up. That right wingers find this offensive demonstrates that they believe that the little guy’s role is to roll over and take whatever abuse the powerful and the wealthy dish out.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 10:37 AM • (67) Comments

Even if they are bussing people in, so fucking what?  The problems in Wisconsin don’t just disappear when you cross into Iowa/Minnesota/Michigan/Illinois, they are national.  People have every right to travel and the whole “bussing in” crap is a red herring.

Fox News has the luxury of being Fox News.  We saw what happened to the career of Dan Rather when he was unjustly targeted over the Bush documents.  This is because Fox is held to different standards than NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, and even MSNBC which is smeared as the “Fox of the left.”  They can be a biased propaganda organization and a legit news organization at the same time and depending on the situation pick either one.  So nobody will be fired over this clip, it will show up on Pandagon, Media Matters, and if we are still lucky, the Daily Show.  But tomorrow will come and Fox will just continue to spread bullshit without consequence.

Comment #1: Albert Cirrus  on  03/02  at  11:20 AM

When is Faux going to break out old footage from the infamous ‘68 Democratic Convention in Chicago and claim it’s current Wisconsin protests?  Lots of cops and hippies going at it full throttle.  Throw in some Kent State footage, maybe footage of a couple love-ins from late ‘60s San Francisco, and maybe some from Woodstock.  Even though most of the footage is in B&W;, they could remind everyone that the world wasn’t fully in color until the ‘70s.  God knows plenty of Faux viewers would believe it, especially if Beck presented it. 

If you’re going to lie, pull out all the stops…

Comment #2: MikeEss  on  03/02  at  11:24 AM

Walker just looks stupid, because he is stupid and he doesn’t have a real argument.

Agreed. Although I think his argument is just base authoritarianism. The public unions should give up their right to collectively bargain because I’m the Governor and I said so.

Comment #3: MissCherryPi  on  03/02  at  11:35 AM

Thanks Amanda.  Smart and insightful, as usual.

As for the busing BS, sure we bused people in (speaking of Columbus, OH, now) but so the fuck what?  There’s this thing we have in the labor movement, what remains of us, called SOLIDARITY.  It’s part of the collective concept in COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.

The number of non-Ohioans was small compared to Ohioans, and they were clearly identified.

MC: “Let’s have a shout out for our brothers and sisters from Pennsylvania!”

Crowd: “YEA!”

Pennsylvanians: /waive signs/

It’s not like some astroturfing operations I could name where people are bused in in secret and then present themselves as a spontaneous uprising of locals.  All funded by the Brothers-who-shall-not-be-named.

Comment #4: ummeli  on  03/02  at  11:42 AM

But all this—-the lies about violence, the lies about foreign influence—-is really going straight up to a larger narrative, which is that protest is wrong because it’s indecorous. Certainly, that’s been the theme of Ann Althouse’s meltdown.

Althouse must have an unusual definition of “indecorous,” given that the protest signs I’ve seen from the capitol building include “Be Nice!” and “Clean Up After Yourself! This is our House!” Why does Anne Althouse hate moms?

And look, Faux News, I know you’re disappointed that the puppet crowd and the ANSWER types riding their off-topic hobbyhorses haven’t shown up in Madison. I know it’s sad when absolutely no-one at a progressive protest is holding up a “Free Mumia” sign or throwing bricks through the windows of pizza parlours as part of that sinister “larger agenda.” It’s disconcerting. But if you’re gonna misrepresent the nature of these evil, generic “Union Protests” in Wisconson at least try to dig up some climate-appropriate B-roll—not like there’s any lack of it. I mean, really, when we’re talking about taking on one of Uncle Rupe’s top 5 boogeymen, this laziness and corner-cutting by the producers and editors just won’t do.

Comment #5: Gracchus.  on  03/02  at  11:46 AM

It’s not like some astroturfing operations I could name where people are bused in in secret and then present themselves as a spontaneous uprising of locals.  All funded by the Brothers-who-shall-not-be-named.

Ah, but that’s what makes Faux extra-special. Other news orgs just have standards, but Fox News has double-standards.

Comment #6: Gracchus.  on  03/02  at  11:48 AM

Out-of-state money from the Koch brothers and astroturf groups like Club for Growth and Americans for Prosperity is just “Democracy in action.” But when union members take buses to get to Madison to stand with their working brothers and sisters, they are “outside agitators.” It’s important we get the terms correct.

But I have to say, having been in the middle of it, that I can not imagine a more decorous protest than what’s going on in Madison these last few weeks. The number of signs that exhort people—either other protesters or Gov Walker—to “be nice” is astounding. And rather unnerving, to tell you the truth. Fox has to crop out those in order to show the one sign that pointed out “Hitler eradicated the trade unions in 1933” so that they can go off on how “over the top it is” to point out historical similarities and allow people to make their own conclusions.

Comment #7: Vir Modestus  on  03/02  at  11:52 AM

Can anyone read the signs these folks are holding? Because they seem blurry to me and I don’t doubt that was done deliberately. And how tight the shot is. Faux news always shows their rallies in tight shots to try and hide the fact that there are only 30 people there. Makes me wonder if this isn’t footage from some tea bagger protest in California, where palm trees do grow as large as the ones in this footage.

Comment #8: serious bette  on  03/02  at  11:56 AM

One must wonder how many Teabaggers traveled for their “town halls” in the last couple years.

Comment #9: James  on  03/02  at  12:07 PM

And what are the chances that this will ever make the mainstream news? Zero. Jesus, what a country.

Comment #10: ginmar  on  03/02  at  12:07 PM

The big thing this has underlined to me is how totally committed our Establishment Media is to the GOP agenda, whatever it is.  It’s a bizarre truth that leaves me confused as to how we can expect to maintain a democracy over the next decade.  Similar to the Iraq War protests in 2003.

Also, it underlines how foolish it is for Barack Obama to expect to appease these people.

Comment #11: Punditus Maximus  on  03/02  at  12:28 PM

People are completely overwhelmed by Fox’s depraved lying, and this is barely getting a reaction.  On Facebook, there’s more arguing over my potshot at the “hit the streets for any reason!” people than there is acknowledgment of how profound a problem this is.  Fox is trying to burn us out by being over the top all the time, and it’s working.

Comment #12: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/02  at  12:51 PM

That footage is of the teabagger counter protest in Sacramento.  That is the west side of 10th street across from the capitol.  The actual union rally was over 10 times as big, across the street on the steps of the capitol.  The teabaggers had started grabbing and shoving a small group of teamsters after the rally as they were leaving, this guy fought back and that is all they show on Fox.

Comment #13: Fatman  on  03/02  at  12:51 PM

Punditus, first, I really agree with you about Obama’s appearances on Fox—they just make him look wishy-washy.

Second, I no longer watch TV, I got rid of my cable—I’m tired of paying for garbage. We need to make better use of the Internet—I don’t care how—I must leave that to people with more imagination than me.

It just occurred to me that should I ever see a Fox News reporter on the streets, I will be running up to him and his cameraman and begin to chant Fox News Lies! Fox News Lies! We have it within our power to make Fox News very afraid, and the cost is cheap.

Comment #14: LCforevah  on  03/02  at  01:04 PM

14 comments is all it took for anti-TV self-righteousness.  I promise, I don’t think “30 Rock” or “Justified” or even “Rachel Maddow” is tainted by sharing the same tubes as Fox.  Nor more than I think right wing videos on YouTube makes the internet worthless.

Comment #15: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/02  at  01:24 PM

Bill O’s people knew exactly what they were doing with that clip. Notice the caption is simply “Union Protests”, not “Wisconsin Protests”. When they get called out on it, they can play dumb and say “Well, we never CLAIMED it was footage of Wisconsin!” and that will be the end of it.

Plausible Deniability is how they can eat their rancid cake and have it too.

Comment #16: Brian Schlosser  on  03/02  at  01:40 PM

Damnit, it’s supposed to be sub-zero today here in Madison with the wind chill so I better go out and put plastic bags on all of my palm and orange trees.

Comment #17: tannenburg  on  03/02  at  02:12 PM

Amanda @15: Dosen’t Fox News (along with the other channels) receive income from the cable companies?  If so, there’s a significant difference between buying cable and buying ISP access.

That said though, I’m ideologically disinclined towards these sorts of financial protests myself. Partly because it feeds the oligarchic idea of “Voting with your dollars”, partly because such boycotts are always hampered by other market pressures, and partly because I think government should have a legitimate stake in banning unacceptable behaviours rather than forcing consumers to put ethical considerations in the same category as cost, quality and features.

Comment #18: Left_Wing_Fox  on  03/02  at  02:16 PM

The news media’s reaction is why many of us have gone into ‘any publicity is good publicity’ mode. If you’re only going to cover the people behaving badly, well… better to be on the news and villified than quietly ignored. I’m glad it seems the alternate news media is able to keep the Wisconsin narrative from being completely in the hands of corporate media. I expect part of why they’re still behaved is the fact that there remains an incentive to be.

At this point in the ‘game’ I consider any person with a camera who is outside the alternate media (not embedded into the protest) to be either ‘spook, vulture or crook’ (i.e. state agent, enemy sensationalist corporate media, or propagandists for the opposition, like the photographers from the anti-choice organisation we were protesting who used the fact we were masked to promote the idea there’s some sort of pro-choice thug movement).

Comment #19: BlackBloc  on  03/02  at  02:17 PM

I find the foreign influence thing especially amusing/disingenius since Fox’s largest single share holder is Kingdom (Saudi).

Comment #20: helen w. h.  on  03/02  at  02:23 PM

Ann Althouse complaining about other people’s decorum. Lolz.

Comment #21: Nobody in Particular  on  03/02  at  02:34 PM

Left_Wing_Fox @ 18: I don’t know about where you are, but in MA (and AR, PA and upstate NY) one of the major players in the internet provider game, if not the major player, is the cable tv company (ComCast, Cablevision, Times Warner, etc).

Comment #22: helen w. h.  on  03/02  at  02:35 PM

“I find the foreign influence thing especially amusing/disingenius since Fox’s largest single share holder is Kingdom (Saudi).”

Why not?  I get the feeling that Rupert Murdoch has no actual allegiance to anything except money and power.  In that respect he’s a lot like the Saudi royal family.

It seems to me the US (or the whole world) fills the same roll for Murdoch as ants do for a naughty little boy with a magnifying glass on a sunny day…

Comment #23: MikeEss  on  03/02  at  02:39 PM

Left Wing, let’s not get into the same logic that allows right wingers to claim paying for contraception is the same as paying for abortion. wink  Like you, I’m skeptical that “boycotts” mean anything unless they’re massive and organized and, above all other things, rare.  Outside of that, they’re substituting personal purity for effective action.

Black, that all seems irrelevant as the Wisconsin protesters are being polite, clean, and non-violent.  Defending them as if that weren’t true seems to confuse the issue.

Comment #24: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/02  at  02:40 PM

And the attempts to claim that lying by omission doesn’t count have started. What’s interesting to me is how many conservatives, instead of being offended that Fox lies to them, defend the lies.  They should think about how insulting it is that Fox thinks they’re suckers.

Comment #25: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/02  at  02:53 PM

Hey, the very end of that clip—the bagger with a cowboy hat?  Looks like it’s in Chicago—I see the “Snoopy in a Blender” Dubuffet in the background. 

It’s still not related to the current protests.  Except that it is a protest of something.

Comment #26: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  03/02  at  02:53 PM

That footage is on L street outside the California State Capital.  I walk down that street almost every day.

Comment #27: dave  on  03/02  at  03:01 PM

@24: I don’t feel like it confuses the issue. I think the issue is the continued expectation that protest should always be clean, polite and non-violent if it is to be legitimate. And praising the protesters for being this way is, in a way, playing into the hands of that mainstream media narrative. The Wisconsin protests would still be legitimate (because the grievances are legitimate) if the behavior was riotous. The overall effect is to put the onus on the ‘polite’ protesters to police their own and do the job of repression for the corporate state by fostering an us VS them attitude. It is similar to the calls from the right-wing that mainstream peaceful Muslims be made responsible for the actions of terrorists. There will never be enough genuflection on the part of peaceful protesters to get them off the hook for the radical actions of others, so why are we accepting this idea that somehow the legitimacy of a protest depends on how the protesters act and not the validity of their grievances?

Comment #28: BlackBloc  on  03/02  at  03:19 PM

@25: they can’t be, because deep down they know they ARE suckers. And they’d rather be played for such than a) do thinking (it’s HARD), b) admit to being wrong, or c) give up one scrap of their privilege (real or perceived).

Comment #29: Well, what?  on  03/02  at  03:19 PM

@BlackBloc @28 I agree with your sentiment in the sense that the powers that be will always find the worst offender in a group and attempt to portray that person as representative of the whole.  On the other hand, I don’t know if Walker’s plans necessarily merit violence.  Since violence is not really being used against the protesters I would say that there is not yet any need for violence on the protester’s part.

Comment #30: progrocker  on  03/02  at  03:28 PM

The reason why they wish to portay the protesters as a bunch of foreign agitators bussed in to be ringers: once again, it’s our friend Right Wing Projection.

http://www.theawl.com/2011/03/in-madison-scott-walker-packed-his-budget-address-with-ringers?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheAwl+(The+Awl)

Comment #31: BlackBloc  on  03/02  at  03:29 PM

I know it’s sad when absolutely no-one at a progressive protest is holding up a “Free Mumia” sign or throwing bricks through the windows of pizza parlours as part of that sinister “larger agenda.”

don’t worry - the wingnuts would be happy to supply someone…

Comment #32: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/02  at  04:03 PM

Ah, but that’s what makes Faux extra-special. Other news orgs just have standards, but Fox News has double-standards.

Cola through nose.  Cat displeased.  Well played.

Comment #33: fluffster  on  03/02  at  04:10 PM

I think they knew full well what “tea bagging” was before they adopted it as the name for their group. I think the idea of tea bagging liberals is exactly what they meant to communicate.

Comment #34: Charlie Kilian  on  03/02  at  04:11 PM

I agree that some programs are worthwhile, I just don’t think there are enough of them to justify a $100.00 cable bill. I didn’t do it as a protest—it’s very much a personal budget decision—I’m not spending my precious money on garbage and if I were to really want to watch some worthy program, I would use Hulu or Cast. As it is, it’s been more than a year and many aspects of my life and schedule have changed for the better by giving up TV. I don’t have the time even for Hulu, because I’m doing more interesting things—and I was afraid I was going to cave because I considered myself a TV addict.

Comment #35: LCforevah  on  03/02  at  04:17 PM

Expecting the Faux News Charade viewer to understand the differences here, and spot the propaganda, would be like expecting Outhouse to grasp that the VIOLENT revolution that formed the United States was largely fought because of the extreme economic policy control of the colonies by the “chartered” interests that the crown favored.

It was also the result of misteps by an insane or, at best, ailing monarch completely beholden to those chartered interests.  That’s why the founders were so suspicious of the ability to form corporations!

Comment #36: Ms Kate  on  03/02  at  04:42 PM

Even if there was violence at these protests, how would we not know that they are teabagger false flag operations?  Remember from the Tom Walker interview with the pretend Charles Koch, Walker mentioned that he considered sending people into the crowd to disrupt the protests.  What if that actually happens?  Let’s be skeptical the next time a union “thug” is accused of punching a “peaceful” teabagger.

And BTW, I’ve noticed the term “union thug” has turned into the new “N-word?”  I have a hard time finding any columns from any conservatives about these protests that doesn’t include a dozen references to “thugs.”

Comment #37: Albert Cirrus  on  03/02  at  04:45 PM

As for busing, well, it is happening and real.  I know a couple of union nurses who came from Chicago on a bunch of buses.

Comment #38: Ms Kate  on  03/02  at  04:47 PM

I thought the thing about “the N-word” was that you didn’t actually say it.  Can’t shut these fucking hypocrites/toadys up before “union thug” blurts out of their fat faces.

Comment #39: Eric_RoM  on  03/02  at  04:48 PM

@25 and @29 my sister is very involved in her church and has a combination of evangelical and roman catholic friends and fellow parents who are all largely right wing and very well off. I won’t make them representative of the entire wingnut world. I will tell you that when I have attempted to tell anyone of them about right wing lies, whether about George Bush, the Koch brothers or Fox News, they shut me down by telling me straight off that there are no lies, and that everything that comes out of Fox is legitimate.

These are people who are just trying to live their lives without too much bother and don’t see the need to investigate what’s being told to them on the boobtube. They are not Machiavellian enough to see the lies and support them for the sake of the party line.

I remember exactly the moment when I realized that I had to investigate what I was listening to. It was 4:00 am, my alarm radio when off and Newt Gingrich was being interviewed about the “Contract with America” on NPR. What he was saying made no sense to me in light of what I thought people really wanted, and I proceeded to find other sources of information. My sister and her friends have never had such a moment. They still believe that corporate media behave honorably.

I think maybe we are giving the wingnuts on the ground too much credit for knowing what’s really going on. They are suckers because they have always been ignorant about how media work.

Comment #40: LCforevah  on  03/02  at  04:53 PM

Bill O has used the wrong footage many times to promote his agenda. I would not put
anything past the fox crew. They want to portray the protesters like bums and idiots and
give a high five to Gov. Scott Walker and his fear mongering agenda. Sad!

I really have a hard time giving fox one second of my time anymore. The reason hits
close to home.

My mom died last Aug 30, 2010. A week before she died she was watching fox with one
of my brothers and his wife. I was in the other room and walked in where everyong was.
I was pummeled by everyone especially my mom. She had a look of rage in her eyes and
hate in her heart towards me.

I was the one that stay with her the last month of her life. Slept on the ground and took
her to the bathroom and did what ever she asked for. Not my brother or his wife.

I despise fox!  I also became a atheist and started blogging about things. Went through
hell before I realized there was no god. Here is a link to my blog and if you have any
feed back I would appreciate it.

www.atheistwomen.blogspot.com

Comment #41: 1winniepooh  on  03/02  at  05:01 PM

“Free Mumia”... ah, 90s nostalgia…

Comment #42: BrianX  on  03/02  at  05:03 PM

Charlie:

I think it’s a bit more complex than that. The original teabaggers were mostly Paultards, and there are a lot of socially fucked-up geeks in that lot; they know exactly what teabagging is. It leaked out into the larger community, and they ran with it until they found out what it meant, and now they act like they didn’t start it.

Comment #43: BrianX  on  03/02  at  05:05 PM

1winniepooh, what the hell were they watching and why did they take it so personally?

Comment #44: LCforevah  on  03/02  at  05:07 PM

@25 I think the thing is that Fox News isn’t really lying to them. Its more like a shared consensual fantasy. They know Fox News isn’t telling the truth, but its OK because they don’t like the truth. They prefer their own imaginary version of reality, which Fox News is helpfully reinforcing. The real world is complicated and frequently unjust, and if they believed in it, they’d have to think and do work. In Fox News’ reality, all you have to do is kowtow to anyone who has more money than you and show up to vote Republican every 2 years, and everything is guaranteed to be just fine.

Comment #45: Drocket  on  03/02  at  05:09 PM

What pisses me off is that Fox News is basic cable but MSNBC is digital cable. I hope now that Comcast owns NBC, they can rectify that problem.

Comment #46: Mighty Ponygirl  on  03/02  at  05:14 PM

Fox lives in a crazy bubble and because news media is no longer driven by publication (i.e. newspapers) the media has become completely disconnected with the reality of our world.  Now their goal is to appease the advertisers at all costs or simply follow their own ideological bent without a care in the world.  Since television began dominating the news media things have slipped solidly into the grasp of larger corporations.  This is just another example of such action.

Comment #47: Xeranar  on  03/02  at  05:21 PM

@45, that’s a better explanation for why my sister and her friends seem so numb and indifferent to looking for truth in news.

Comment #48: LCforevah  on  03/02  at  05:24 PM

I just finished listening to Thom Hartmann and he was talking about Canadian law requiring that news media must publish the truth. They are not allowed to lie to the Canadian public. I didn’t hear clearly everything that was being said, but apparently Ronnie Raygun got rid of a similar provision while in office. No wonder Fox can get away with what they do.

Comment #49: LCforevah  on  03/02  at  05:29 PM

Right wingers resent state employees for making ten percent more than they do (schoolteachers with college degrees vs. everyone else), and believe those people have it too cozy and should give up their collective bargaining rights, but if you suggest that people who make ten times what they do should pay three cents more tax on a dollar of income, that’s class warfare.

Comment #50: Hector B.  on  03/02  at  05:31 PM

“Fox lives in a crazy bubble…”

Yeah, I dunno.  I mean, it’s possible, but the people that actually go out and interview people must have to work really hard at living inside that bubble.  It’s likely fairly easy for Walker and the Koch brothers and the head honchos at Fox to live inside a bubble, but when reporters go to interview nurses and teachers, and instead of granting interviews the protesters begin chanting en masse “Fox lies” it has to take a decent amount of effort to decide that the people who spend their days caring for/teaching others are just so full of hate that it spills out at every opportunity.  A lot of effort, and a decent amount of projection.

Comment #51: jennygadget  on  03/02  at  05:40 PM

“I think the thing is that Fox News isn’t really lying to them. Its more like a shared consensual fantasy. They know Fox News isn’t telling the truth, but its OK because they don’t like the truth. They prefer their own imaginary version of reality, which Fox News is helpfully reinforcing.”

...hence the idea of “truthiness” (for which Colbert or whoever came up with it should get a Nobel), not actual truth backed up by facts and logic, but what many desperately want to be The Truth.  In fact, they want so badly for their fantasy to be the truth they’ve convinced themselves that their fantasy actually is the truth. 

When a significant portion of the American citizenry has voluntarily withdrawn from reality, because it fails to match their fondest desires, we’ve got a big problem.  We’ve already got Faux and the Republicans using this “resource” at some level, all we lack now is someone with enough charisma, and malevolence, to fully exploit this pack of morons. 

People who have made themselves into tools shouldn’t be surprised when there are self-interested and amoral/immoral individuals willing to take them up on their offer.  Under other circumstances it would just be another sad situation where naive/stupid/ignorant people get used to further someone else’s agenda.  Unfortunately, this time the rest of us are strapped into the same hand-basket…

Comment #52: MikeEss  on  03/02  at  06:16 PM

<i….hence the idea of “truthiness” (for which Colbert or whoever came up with it should get a Nobel), not actual truth backed up by facts and logic, but what many desperately want to be The Truth.  In fact, they want so badly for their fantasy to be the truth they’ve convinced themselves that their fantasy actually is the truth.  </i>

Here you go.

My feeling (derived largely from observations on climate change and creationism, which raise similar questions) is that we can distinguish numerous different belief states that go along with birtherist answers to opinion poll questions. There are lots of nuances, but most are combinations of the following

  * A conspiracy-theoretic view of the world in which liberal elites (a term encompassing Democrats, unions, schoolteachers, scientists, academics and many others) are plotting to undermine the American way of life and replace it with some unspecified, but awful alternative. In this case, answers to these questions reflect actual beliefs
  * Partisanship as suggested by Weigel in which Republicans choose to give the most negative answer possible about Obama as an affirmation of tribal identity.
  * Doublethink in which people are aware that in some mundane sense Obama was born in Hawaii, but also believe that Republican ideology is true and implies the birtherist answer
  * Conformism, in which people know the truth but give the culturally preferred answer, or choose some evasive form of words, as with John Boehner recently.

Comment #53: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/02  at  06:35 PM

@helen and Amanda: Heh, that’s what I get for being pedantic.

My point was just that cable and ISP access aren’t equivalent, as part of the cable payment goes to a licence fee to Fox News (if the package includes it, which many do), but none of the ISP bill goes directly towards the guy with the right-wing videos on YouTube.

However, since LCforevah isn’t avoiding cable for political reasons, and we all seem to agree that such boycotts are ineffective political strategies, It’s all pretty much a moot point. raspberry

helen: Actually in my location it’s worse. Technically, the only two internet providers here are the cable company and the satellite company; all the other ISPs buy their bandwidth from them wholesale. Avoiding a package which contains Fox News is actually pretty easy, this being Canada. Boycotting them for carrying Fox News would essentially knock me off the internet.

Comment #54: Left_Wing_Fox  on  03/02  at  06:53 PM

@54, yeah, the budget comes first. I just couldn’t justify buying 200 channels for maybe four programs that I like. The fact that I got rid of Fox News in my living room is an added bonus.

Comment #55: LCforevah  on  03/02  at  07:19 PM

@ Albert Cirrus “Even if they are bussing people in, so fucking what? “

Because “real” people don’t bus, they drive.
Buses are for poor suckers who can’t afford to drive their own cars. Or hire a private jet.

Comment #56: Zora  on  03/02  at  07:31 PM

@ LCforevah

I cannot remember, but it was what ever was on fox the last couple weeks of August 2010
That is what my mom watched day in and day out while she was dying. Whacked if you ask
me!!!!

Comment #57: 1winniepooh  on  03/02  at  07:55 PM

#14,
I dont watch tv either anymore. Now its all comedy DVD’s and some internet perusing. The internet is no solution to shitty journalism though. Plenty of crap sell-outs at the Huffington Post who do advertising journalism as well. I just try and get it from legit sources (NY Times for example) and hope it isnt shit. Also I try and check sources when possible. I read now most of my politics from books.

Comment #58: BeanS  on  03/02  at  08:59 PM

#35,
Second that LCforevah. I also substantially cut down on the blogs I visit.

Comment #59: BeanS  on  03/02  at  09:14 PM

#40
LCforevah, yeah I used to watch Fox when I was 19 and 20 (mid 20’s now). I stopped after the 2006 south dakota abortion ban. I was so naive-I seriously didnt know you could lie on tv news! I thought that was law or something. I couldnt understand why Fox didnt discuss it or even seemed alarmed by the ban. Then I found internet blogs and then got hooked up with liberal communitys.

Comment #60: BeanS  on  03/02  at  09:18 PM

A friend of mine from high school is active in the Maine GOP and I can’t quite get him to understand that just because this or that union has corruption issues, that doesn’t mean unions are per se bad. Things like that can be fixed, if the will is there.

Comment #61: BrianX  on  03/02  at  09:44 PM

just because this or that union has corruption issues, that doesn’t mean unions are per se bad

No, agree with him. Tell him that ever since the Randy Cunningham story broke, you realize that all Republicans are corrupt up to the eyeballs.

Comment #62: Hector B.  on  03/02  at  09:52 PM

My wife cleans houses for a living. And many of the people she works for are decent, kind & lovely folks. Over half of them have Fox News on all day long - and they will make comments to her about this & that - and she has to bite her tongue until it almost bleeds to risk offending them.

So many people who swallow Fox Lies simply don’t realize the extent of the propaganda that is being shoved down their throats. It’s like what Sesame Street was for us when we were little kids: Simplistic messages repeated over & over & over again until it was permanently branded into our skulls. Fox is no different. Except instead of Big Bird or The Count doing it, it’s fucking Lex Luthor.

Comment #63: MHF  on  03/02  at  10:51 PM

Once a protest has value, I don’t see that we have a big problem getting people out.  The Planned Parenthood rally I spoke at had three times the projected numbers.

Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised at what a good turnout it had.

Comment #64: Tommykey  on  03/03  at  12:50 AM

I don’t mean to be a killjoy, Amanda, but the latter photo looks an awful lot like the demo my daughter and I attended last Saturday in St. Paul, MN. Is it possible our capitol looks like Wisconsin’s or am I missing something?

Comment #65: Catullus  on  03/03  at  09:44 AM

Albert Cirrus - union thug is a bring back, it used to be pretty common - about 30+ years ago.
MHF, also instead of be nice, wash your hands, everyone can be your friend and eat right they shovel out those poor/brown/foreign people want to steal your money/burn down your house/rape your daughter.

Comment #66: helen w. h.  on  03/03  at  10:02 AM

#65
The St. Paul capital has a different Dome, a different surrounding area, and it also has the Quadriga.

Comment #67: ginmar  on  03/03  at  11:19 AM

BeanS, try buzzflash.com. they compile headlines from all progressive blogs, truthout, progressive, grist plus nytimes, latimes, washpost, and any other english headline from around the world.

It has always been better than huffpo.

Comment #68: LCforevah  on  03/03  at  05:47 PM
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